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c933103
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:16 am

moo wrote:
c933103 wrote:
It was your previous reply that claim this cannot be apply to the other side. My intention was not to support any side, but to depict why it's not correct to only blame one side being causing problems


And by doing so, you are trying to create equivalency - "cant blame the Republicans for storming the Capitol because you didnt blame the Democrats for the BLM protests last year!"

Thats. The. Problem.

There is no equivalency between the two things - there is no concept of it being incorrect to talk about the events last week in complete and total isolation, we do not need to bring the BLM protests into this at all. If you insist we have to, then all you are trying to do is change the narrative and somehow seek to make last weeks events better. Which makes you part of the problem, not the solution.

BLM protests were people seeking to be seen as people. To not be killed indiscriminately by militarised police forces with unqualified immunity. To not be treated as second class by white people. To not have worse outcomes in healthcare and education (hell, at least one of the Covid-19 vaccines has a 30x lower success rate in black people, and literally no one cared - its one of the main ones being issued in the US right now...). To not be gerrymandered into a situation where their vote counts less in many elections.

Last weeks events were members of one side trying to overthrow the legitimate outcome of a national election.

If you can't see the difference, then you are the problem.

Then what is the BLM movement actually trying to change? Poloce aside, how can something like worse outcomes in healthcare and education be improved through decision of someone except god?
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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luckyone
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:18 am

bennett123 wrote:
lucky one

Can you answer the points that he makes about this was able to happen?.

THAT is why I am taking this seriously.

No. In a split second no I can’t. But Michael Moore has a tendency to stretch the truth in order to invent a narrative. I’m not dismissing it, but I wouldn’t use him as my first (or fifth) reference.
 
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moo
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:20 am

c933103 wrote:
moo wrote:
c933103 wrote:
It was your previous reply that claim this cannot be apply to the other side. My intention was not to support any side, but to depict why it's not correct to only blame one side being causing problems


And by doing so, you are trying to create equivalency - "cant blame the Republicans for storming the Capitol because you didnt blame the Democrats for the BLM protests last year!"

Thats. The. Problem.

There is no equivalency between the two things - there is no concept of it being incorrect to talk about the events last week in complete and total isolation, we do not need to bring the BLM protests into this at all. If you insist we have to, then all you are trying to do is change the narrative and somehow seek to make last weeks events better. Which makes you part of the problem, not the solution.

BLM protests were people seeking to be seen as people. To not be killed indiscriminately by militarised police forces with unqualified immunity. To not be treated as second class by white people. To not have worse outcomes in healthcare and education (hell, at least one of the Covid-19 vaccines has a 30x lower success rate in black people, and literally no one cared - its one of the main ones being issued in the US right now...). To not be gerrymandered into a situation where their vote counts less in many elections.

Last weeks events were members of one side trying to overthrow the legitimate outcome of a national election.

If you can't see the difference, then you are the problem.

Then what is the BLM movement actually trying to change? Poloce aside, how can something like worse outcomes in healthcare and education be improved through decision of someone except god?


Uh, you cant be seriously that stupid, not seriously. Really?

Healthcare and education in the US are both absolutely appalling if you dont have private money to throw at them - improving public access to decent healthcare and drastically improving public education across the board would go a long way to resolving inequalities there, but as we have seen these past 4 years, Republicans dont want to do either.

God has nothing to do with it - your government is failing its people. People its actively refused to listen to for more than 50 years.
 
bennett123
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:46 am

This situation was known in advance with a large volatile crowd just down the street.

No Police Helicopters seen.

No Mounted Police seen.

Flimsy barriers.

Few Capitol Police.

Back up, what back up.

No National Guard seen.

No attempt to apprehend the invaders on the day.

How the invaders knew the internal lay out. I can recall several offices I have worked in where you could lose your way, but the invaders apparently knew their way around.

A lot of people who normally would be addressing the press but have not done so this time.

The list goes on and on.
 
BN747
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:17 am

bennett123 wrote:
This situation was known in advance with a large volatile crowd just down the street.

No Police Helicopters seen.

No Mounted Police seen.

Flimsy barriers.

Few Capitol Police.

Back up, what back up.

No National Guard seen.

No attempt to apprehend the invaders on the day.

How the invaders knew the internal lay out. I can recall several offices I have worked in where you could lose your way, but the invaders apparently knew their way around.

A lot of people who normally would be addressing the press but have not done so this time.

The list goes on and on.



Yes the list goes on and on... and one BIG ONE that is missing is the parade of usual Govt suspects taking turns nationally addressing their agencies understanding and reaction to the calamity that has just occurred. Look back at every Big event since Hurricane Katrina and count the suits holding press conferences.

Here, we heard from DC Police telling of their offer (and declined) assistance and DC's Mayor pointing to the Capitol Police.

All this silence in the aftermath of this magnitude is just down right disturbing.

Of course the president can't speak on it because he'll make it all about how he was cheated...but where the hell are all the honchos from the Cabinet, Homeland, DNI, etc.

At lot of missing and moving parts.

c933103 wrote:
Then what is the BLM movement actually trying to change? Poloce aside, how can something like worse outcomes in healthcare and education be improved through decision of someone except god?


There are plenty of BLM threads on the board better yet seek out the George Floyd threads.

If you are in Japan (as the Japanese writing) signature lines at the end of your post indicate, I'd ask all the Japanese protesters in Osaka, Tokyo and throughout Japan who showed an impressive turnout in support of BLM after George Floyd's killing circulated the planet with in minutes of the event itself.

Your insistence that members explain BLM to you in this thread is really a stretch. BLM is only mentioned in this thread due an entirely different Police response versus rioters attacking the US Capitol building, the very center of our Democracy.

All protest are NOT the same...nor are they treated the same.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
bennett123
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:33 am

IMO, the first point is another biggie,

This situation didn't come out the blue;

This has been building for months.

There was a large, angry, at least potentially armed crowd up the street and no one had a plan in case this got out of hand.

Really?.
 
BN747
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:38 am

bennett123 wrote:
IMO, the first point is another biggie,

This situation didn't come out the blue;

This has been building for months.

There was a large, angry, at least potentially armed crowd up the street and no one had a plan in case this got out of hand.

Really?.


Oh they had plenty of heads up...

Capitol Police warned by FBI, NYPD of risk of violence at Capitol: report
https://thehill.com/policy/national-sec ... at-capitol

and from the only press conference held the next day was by DC Mayor Bowser and DC Police stating how they had offered back up supporting manpower...and how they were rebuffed by Pentagon and Capitol Police.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
tommy1808
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:41 am

BN747 wrote:
All protest are NOT the same...nor are they treated the same.


how many arrests where there over the summer? 14.000 or so? How many on Wednesday...

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:24 am

c933103 wrote:
poloce aside, how can something like worse outcomes in healthcare and education be improved through decision of someone except god?


Well for starters there’s no evidence of the existence of a s god and the disparity between black and white health and education outcomes are lower in other countries therefore things outside of god must be applicable to change this scenario.

Fred


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davidjohnson6
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:02 am

ArcticSEA wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Is Trump linked clearly to the planned armed marches on Washinton and state capitols on 17 January ?

It is likely. That is my personal opinion, of course, educated because I have had functioning eyes and ears over the past 5 years. This is also why he has been purged from social media. It is likely similar attacks (yes, attacks) were already planned and organized via the Parler app. This is why that app is gone too.


Is there anything to show this in an objective way, beyond just your personal theory ?
 
BN747
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:18 am

Officer Who Defended Capitol During Riots Dies of Apparent Suicide
https://www.yahoo.com/news/officer-defe ... 20265.html

...wow, what made this guy take that route?

BN747
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GDB
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:21 am

luckyone wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Having listened to Michael Moore's item, it makes you wonder how many people are in this conspiracy and how did it fail so far.

We are living in dangerous times.

I will wait to see more verified information. Michael Moore is a leftist QAnon and I take pretty much anything he says was a hefty grain of salt.


While I can take or leave Mr Moore, very illuminating that you try to equate what in the rest of the Western World would be a moderate centre/left commentator, with a looney far right wing cult, one promoted by Trump and at least one new GOP crook/lawmaker.
What I have seen from Mr Moore, he included warnings about this kind of thing happening, before it did, had that mythical 'TDS' did he? So I will take his judgement over anyone who throws those lazy attempts at equating Mr Moore with Trump's worst supporters.

Others have mentioned the lack of security at a demo planned/threatened weeks before, Trump between ranting and golfing, had a bunch of his minions appointed in security positions, when concerns were raised about it, no doubt they, for you at least, were leftists panicking.
Well who has got the egg on their face now? The US has, it's reputation as a stable nation with rational leaders is shredded.
'Make America Great Again?' The greatest failed state if he and his supporters had their way and overturned a legitimate election, which he lost by 7M, which all of his 60 odd clown car lawsuits were thrown out, with contempt, including by his own SC appointments.

So insult Moore all you like, sounds desperate really.
He was right on this.
 
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c933103
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:48 am

BN747 wrote:

There are plenty of BLM threads on the board better yet seek out the George Floyd threads.

If you are in Japan (as the Japanese writing) signature lines at the end of your post indicate, I'd ask all the Japanese protesters in Osaka, Tokyo and throughout Japan who showed an impressive turnout in support of BLM after George Floyd's killing circulated the planet with in minutes of the event itself.

Your insistence that members explain BLM to you in this thread is really a stretch. BLM is only mentioned in this thread due an entirely different Police response versus rioters attacking the US Capitol building, the very center of our Democracy.

All protest are NOT the same...nor are they treated the same.

BN747

Some clarification:
- I am sympathetic to the BLM Movement's goal that black members of the US society need to be treated more equally and be respected, but I do not understand how what being occurred helps them in such aspect, and from my eyes as foreign speculator it seems to me like there are some in the movement that isn't actually fighting for what they claim they are for.
- I am not in Japan, Japanese is one of the language I have some knowledge of, among other languages (Chinese, English, Cattish) in my signature. I am in Asia.
- The reason I brought up the BLM movement in the thread was as an example that it is not correct to project the problem of some actionary groups toward a wider part of the society that have some ideology in common with those groups. But then discussions around BLM started as others disagree with my analogy
- I guess I shouldn't make any further replies related to BLM in this thread as that's not really related to the thread's topic. I have tried to discuss the matter in other BLM related thread but didn't quite get it. Like public education quality in the United States have been mentioned but I wasn't aware of much focus in the movement on increasing investment into public education in the movement or even in the US politics in general, which have caused problems I have around the movement that I still couldn't quite understand. I would leave them to another time/place when there are more suitable one emerge.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
Fitting foreign event into local context for lessons will only be able to tell local values instead of foreign ones
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art
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:10 am

In my opinion the US has a deramged head of state supported (in part) by a number of crazed people. I suggest that Trump should have been removed using Amendment 25 immediately after the riot.

At this poimt a second impeachment pricess is starting. I think this should be followed through, regardless of how long it takes. If there is abundant evidence showing the guilt of the defendant but Republican senators refuse to convict then one knows that party/self interest comes before democracy for American politicians. If there is a conviction, let that be a warning to future presidents that they are not above the law where the democratic process is concerned.
 
bennett123
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:23 am

Agree 100% on your second point.

They should be forced to say publicly where they stand.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:08 am

Trump National golf course has been stripped of the 2022 PGA championship....
https://www.bbc.com/sport/golf/55615022

This may be one of the more trivial consequences of his spectacular downfall, but one which I bet will hurt him deeply.
For a man who put so much value in his name (he himself declared it a large portion of his net worth), he's managed to successfully turn it into such a scandalous, controversial and almost obscene syllable that no mainstream business will want anything to do with him anymore.

I suspect this is only the beginning of the end for most of his ventures. He made his money slapping his name on stuff, and I doubt many businesses will want to be associated to a man who has now firmly tied that name to a far-right insurrectionist movement that tried to overturn American democracy (among all of the nastiness he's .
I bet many hotels and resorts - the ones he doesn't own outright - will shortly be reconsidering their tie-up with him in the near future.

Trump without the Trump name is nothing. He has no business skills other than selling himself. The long trail of bankruptcies and failures that punctuate his past are a testament to this.
I can't see him with a future in politics either, especially if the impeachment proceedings go to their conclusion later in the year.
He's successfully managed to drive himself (and his family) into a dark corner in which his only activity and revenue streams will likely be as an agitator for the far right fringes.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:33 am

Golf courses and hotels can be rebranded - it's standard corporate practice whenever something reputationally bad happens. People forget things, especially when names are changed

If Ryanair can rebrand the 737 Max to the 737 8200, then anything can be rebadged
 
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scbriml
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:37 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Golf courses and hotels can be rebranded


Sure, but that's really going to hurt Trump on a personal level. In fact, I suspect he would stubbornly refuse to do it and prefer to go bankrupt (again).
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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tommy1808
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:38 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Golf courses and hotels can be rebranded - it's standard corporate practice whenever something reputationally bad happens. People forget things, especially when names are changed

If Ryanair can rebrand the 737 Max to the 737 8200, then anything can be rebadged


still removes the licencing revenue for his name.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:45 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Golf courses and hotels can be rebranded - it's standard corporate practice whenever something reputationally bad happens. People forget things, especially when names are changed

If Ryanair can rebrand the 737 Max to the 737 8200, then anything can be rebadged


For the stuff he owns, sure. Although as alluded by others above, his ego might not even tolerate it.
The problem in this case is that a lot of the value of these venues he owns is dependent on the name itself. A 'Lambda Omega luxury hotel' might not achieve the kind of popularity and attendance a 'Trump
Luxury hotel' would. Brands rely on an established name and image to gain and keep market shares. It's hard to keep your customers faithful if you keep changing names along the way.

For the businesses that license his name/brand however, that means they would simply stop paying him royalties. Who knows what fraction of his business' revenue depends on licensing fees as he won't say... I'd wager that it's quite a lot and that the rest of the business is not that profitable anyway. All we know is that none of this will do any good to Trump inc...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
flipdewaf
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Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:49 pm

Any chance that if he files for bankruptcy that he may have to release/lose exclusivity on the trump trademark(s)?

Fred


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BN747
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:03 pm

Well now, any questions as why Bill Barr cut out a week earlier that the Capitol attack?


Anyone paying any attention to the trump and Barr relationship got it the moment I asked the question.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
bennett123
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:19 pm

So how of what happened since did Barr know in advance?.
 
luckyone
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:46 pm

GDB wrote:
luckyone wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Having listened to Michael Moore's item, it makes you wonder how many people are in this conspiracy and how did it fail so far.

We are living in dangerous times.

I will wait to see more verified information. Michael Moore is a leftist QAnon and I take pretty much anything he says was a hefty grain of salt.


While I can take or leave Mr Moore, very illuminating that you try to equate what in the rest of the Western World would be a moderate centre/left commentator, with a looney far right wing cult, one promoted by Trump and at least one new GOP crook/lawmaker.
What I have seen from Mr Moore, he included warnings about this kind of thing happening, before it did, had that mythical 'TDS' did he? So I will take his judgement over anyone who throws those lazy attempts at equating Mr Moore with Trump's worst supporters.

Others have mentioned the lack of security at a demo planned/threatened weeks before, Trump between ranting and golfing, had a bunch of his minions appointed in security positions, when concerns were raised about it, no doubt they, for you at least, were leftists panicking.
Well who has got the egg on their face now? The US has, it's reputation as a stable nation with rational leaders is shredded.
'Make America Great Again?' The greatest failed state if he and his supporters had their way and overturned a legitimate election, which he lost by 7M, which all of his 60 odd clown car lawsuits were thrown out, with contempt, including by his own SC appointments.

So insult Moore all you like, sounds desperate really.
He was right on this.

I didn’t say he was wrong. I said he’s dabbled in conspiracy narrative in the past and as such he would not be a reference of choice. I didn’t say he was wrong. It’s amusing in the same conversation I’m criticized from both angles.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:57 pm

One of the ongoing issues from the riot in and around the US Capital building was the lack of deployment of National Guard troops with the knowledge of the potential for violence by pro-Trump protesters. It seems to be that while the Mayor of DC can and did call out the DCNG units, they can only work and were working the non-Federal government areas, were unarmed to do traffic and crowd control..Apparently the President or as we finally saw VP Pence too late, are the only ones that can call for NG or Federal military forces on Federal properties including the Capitol building.That is likely due to from the US Civil war, to prevent a State NG unit to do an act of insurrection on the Federal government. Perhaps this article can explain the convoluted situation https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your ... e-capitol/
 
BN747
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:04 pm

bennett123 wrote:
So how of what happened since did Barr know in advance?.



If you paid attention to Bill Barr from his auditioning to his Justice Dept oversight (far from normal) to his exit (and how it ended)...then you know how Barr rolls.

If you were not paying attention...then that ship has sailed. You missed a big part of trump admin's track record.


BN747
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:52 pm

Wouldn't Barr be aware of the warnings coming in about potentially violent protests? That does not mean he had actionable information. Just that he knew it was time for him to be gone.
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casinterest
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:00 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Wouldn't Barr be aware of the warnings coming in about potentially violent protests? That does not mean he had actionable information. Just that he knew it was time for him to be gone.


I think Barr probably saw the levels of madness and realized that if the White House was still pushing the "Steal" it would mean only bad things. It will be interesting to see what happens as the investigations are opened.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
ltbewr
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:07 pm

The Democratic party majority House of Representatives has introduced an Article of Impeachment against President Trump on the grounds of 'Incitement of Insurrection'. It is unlikely for it to go forward quickly, to a US Senate Trial of Trump and may be seen as mooted by the ending of Trump's term of office, but it is an important statement that had to be made.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/11/politics ... index.html
 
bennett123
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:32 pm

Will be interesting to see how the Republicans vote.
 
SYRAVGEEK
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:42 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Will be interesting to see how the Republicans vote.

I think my representative (John Katko) will probably vote to impeach, even though he voted against impeachment last time.
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davidjohnson6
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:00 pm

Let us suppose that the House of Reps votes to impeach, and the paperwork is then paused for a few months before going to the Senate. By that time, Biden will have been President for a few months, the Senate will be Democrat controlled (just !) and Trump will have long lost any executive powers
At that point, does it become politically easier for Republican senators to vote against Trump, be it to convict of impeachment or to vote in some way to ban Trump from holding office in the future ? Or will the memory of 06-Jan have faded away a little and could the Senate just decide not to bother after all ?
 
NYCVIE
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:05 pm

I'm all for impeachment but it's interesting that now that lawmakers themselves and federal buildings were/are being targeted there's much higher appetite for consequences to Trump. But when he sanctioned violence against protesters in DC so he could take his photo, when he egged on "take back your state" in Michigan which almost resulted in Gretchen Whitmer's death, and after "when the looting starts, the shooting starts," it was crickets and even excuses and justifications from many folks....

When kids study Trump's presidency years from now they're genuinely going to be confused that after 4 years of Trump doing the things he's done that it was this, at the very end of his Presidency that made people go "Wow, this guy is actually dangerous!" It's actually even funny, but then it's really not.
 
luckyone
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:08 pm

NYCVIE wrote:
I'm all for impeachment but it's interesting that now that lawmakers themselves and federal buildings were/are being targeted there's much higher appetite for consequences to Trump. But when he sanctioned violence against protesters in DC so he could take his photo, when he egged on "take back your state" in Michigan which almost resulted in Gretchen Whitmer's death, and after "when the looting starts, the shooting starts," it was crickets and even excuses and justifications from many folks....

When kids study Trump's presidency years from now they're genuinely going to be confused that after 4 years of Trump doing the things he's done that it was this, at the very end of his Presidency that made people go "Wow, this guy is actually dangerous!" It's actually even funny, but then it's really not.

I will gladly go on the record, those things were terrible. I live a mile or so from the precinct in Seattle that was "occupied," and I was a vocal critic and believe that those people should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and I have little sympathy for people who brought their own death upon themselves. There is still a difference storming the Capitol on this specific day. The other ones have legal ramifications. This one had Constitutional ramifications.
 
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seb146
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:33 pm

c933103 wrote:
Then what is the BLM movement actually trying to change? Poloce aside, how can something like worse outcomes in healthcare and education be improved through decision of someone except god?


To tell the nation that minorities are tired of oppression. To tell the nation that minorities are fed up to the point of violence over being murdered for holding a sandwich or a phone or telling police they are licensed to carry a gun. Legislation has not worked because Republicans don't do anything other than "well, they should have complied with police commands". They were complaining, they are tired, they are angry their rights are not being protected like white evangelicals rights are.

Besides, and I can not stress this enough, BLM did not storm the Capital. BLM did not openly plan to execute elected officials. BLM did not plan a coup. BLM followed the rules and are still told they are more violent than the terrorists who stormed the Capital. This is why they protest. For equality.

So, either hold the MAGA terrorists to the same lofty standard BLM is held to, or hold BLM to the unthinkably low standard MAGA terrorists are held. Your call, Republicans.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
acavpics
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:35 pm

The house introduced impeachment articles today. Is there a legitimate chance of impeachment passing the senate?
 
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seb146
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:35 pm

Every Sunday, I buy a copy of the Oregonian and read it over dinner with the brosband. I nearly lost my appetite when I read this

https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/202 ... hetic.html

Oregon MAGA support calls police mostly sympathetic. And these MAGA supporters wonder why BLM protests.....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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scbriml
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:43 pm

acavpics wrote:
The house introduced impeachment articles today. Is there a legitimate chance of impeachment passing the senate?


Doesn't it need a 2/3 majority in the Senate? With the Senate split 50-50 there's probably not enough republican senators prepared to do the right thing.
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casinterest
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:45 pm

scbriml wrote:
acavpics wrote:
The house introduced impeachment articles today. Is there a legitimate chance of impeachment passing the senate?


Doesn't it need a 2/3 majority in the Senate? With the Senate split 50-50 there's probably not enough republican senators prepared to do the right thing.



At this point, with the speed of information, I think most senators are just praying that the vote never comes up and Trump resigns. There is a lot of pain coming for those that have upheld the lies that led to this point, and taken money to further their own agendas.

10-15 Republicans may be easy to get to.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
SYRAVGEEK
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:46 pm

scbriml wrote:
acavpics wrote:
The house introduced impeachment articles today. Is there a legitimate chance of impeachment passing the senate?


Doesn't it need a 2/3 majority in the Senate? With the Senate split 50-50 there's probably not enough republican senators prepared to do the right thing.

All Dems will prob vote yes, I bet Romney, Sasse, Toomey, Murkowski, Collins, and some other republicans might flip
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bennett123
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:51 pm

Every Republican has an opportunity to do the right thing.

Question is, how any will do so.

The GOP is in a bit of a cleft stick.
 
luckyone
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:57 pm

SYRAVGEEK wrote:
scbriml wrote:
acavpics wrote:
The house introduced impeachment articles today. Is there a legitimate chance of impeachment passing the senate?


Doesn't it need a 2/3 majority in the Senate? With the Senate split 50-50 there's probably not enough republican senators prepared to do the right thing.

All Dems will prob vote yes, I bet Romney, Sasse, Toomey, Murkowski, Collins, and some other republicans might flip

According to one source, Sen. Graham informally advises the President that if he didn’t concede and commit to a peaceful transition, there were enough GOP votes to show him the door.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/01 ... ted-allies
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:59 pm

Are the relevant house votes for impeachment public or private? Would the public know who voted which way to strip trump of the presidency? And then by default would we know which voted for him to remain?

Fred


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acavpics
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:09 pm

SYRAVGEEK wrote:
scbriml wrote:
acavpics wrote:
The house introduced impeachment articles today. Is there a legitimate chance of impeachment passing the senate?


Doesn't it need a 2/3 majority in the Senate? With the Senate split 50-50 there's probably not enough republican senators prepared to do the right thing.

All Dems will prob vote yes, I bet Romney, Sasse, Toomey, Murkowski, Collins, and some other republicans might flip


But will Warnock and Ossoff get to vote on impeachment? I thought that they only start office on Jan 20th.
 
art
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:18 pm

casinterest wrote:
scbriml wrote:
acavpics wrote:
The house introduced impeachment articles today. Is there a legitimate chance of impeachment passing the senate?


Doesn't it need a 2/3 majority in the Senate? With the Senate split 50-50 there's probably not enough republican senators prepared to do the right thing.



At this point, with the speed of information, I think most senators are just praying that the vote never comes up and Trump resigns. There is a lot of pain coming for those that have upheld the lies that led to this point, and taken money to further their own agendas.

10-15 Republicans may be easy to get to.


A ninimum of 17 Republican senators would be required to give a guilty verdict, based on the evidence presented. However, senators of both hues, although sworn to give an unbiased verdict, will not do what they have sworn to do, Many members of the US Senate are dishonest people and are not fit to try the President so the impeachment process will be a charade.

If a jury in a criminal trial behaved the way US senators behave in an impeachment trial, almost all the members of the jury would have decided to vote for the guilt or otherwise of the defendant before the trial even started.

Call that a reliable verdict? I for one do not.
Last edited by art on Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
luckyone
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:18 pm

acavpics wrote:
SYRAVGEEK wrote:
scbriml wrote:

Doesn't it need a 2/3 majority in the Senate? With the Senate split 50-50 there's probably not enough republican senators prepared to do the right thing.

All Dems will prob vote yes, I bet Romney, Sasse, Toomey, Murkowski, Collins, and some other republicans might flip


But will Warnock and Ossoff get to vote on impeachment? I thought that they only start office on Jan 20th.

Without a unanimous vote to hold a special session, the Senate does not resume until January 19. For all practical measures, the Senate would not be able to vote on the measure until after Biden is sworn in. That doesn’t mean they couldn’t vote to convict at that time. Accordingly, there is discussion of holding the transmission of the resolution from the House to the Senate until sometime late spring. THAT would be the most interesting thing at that point to see how many Republicans have moved passed the current headlines.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:20 pm

acavpics wrote:
SYRAVGEEK wrote:
scbriml wrote:

Doesn't it need a 2/3 majority in the Senate? With the Senate split 50-50 there's probably not enough republican senators prepared to do the right thing.

All Dems will prob vote yes, I bet Romney, Sasse, Toomey, Murkowski, Collins, and some other republicans might flip


But will Warnock and Ossoff get to vote on impeachment? I thought that they only start office on Jan 20th.


According to this article the vote results have to be certified first which has to be done by 15 Janaury for the counties and 22 January for the state.
The article speculates that the new democratic senators will be sworn in on 19 January when the senate resumes.

https://eu.savannahnow.com/story/news/2 ... 586026002/
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
tommy1808
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:35 pm

luckyone wrote:
SYRAVGEEK wrote:
scbriml wrote:

Doesn't it need a 2/3 majority in the Senate? With the Senate split 50-50 there's probably not enough republican senators prepared to do the right thing.

All Dems will prob vote yes, I bet Romney, Sasse, Toomey, Murkowski, Collins, and some other republicans might flip

According to one source, Sen. Graham informally advises the President that if he didn’t concede and commit to a peaceful transition, there were enough GOP votes to show him the door.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/01 ... ted-allies


They should have ample reason to vote to convict: he couldn't run again, preventing

a) his clinching the primary for the 2024, bringing the same coalition of voters back that elected Biden, leading to losing the presidential election or
b) no running as an independent, which would leave the Republican without any chance whatsoever.

Best regards
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DocLightning
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:37 pm

Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
According to this article the vote results have to be certified first which has to be done by 15 Janaury for the counties and 22 January for the state.


I also believe that both Ms. Loeffler and Mr. Perdue have conceded, so hopefully that will pre-empt any shenanigans there.
-Doc Lightning-

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af773atmsp
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:56 pm

What are the chances any of these rioters escape and never get caught? I assume they would have to be smart by wearing a mask covering their entire face, not having a phone on them, getting out of Washington that same day by car, bus, or train, not saying anything about being there on social media, and remaining undercover as much as possible during the riot so there aren't too many photos or videos showing yourself.

Also is it possible for Trump to pardon all of them, and if yes what are the chances he does that?
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