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NIKV69
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:53 pm

LMP737 wrote:

Didn't these fools know it's Trumps MO to use people then discard them the moment they are of no use to them?


How long you been following politics? They all do the same thing.
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seb146
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:02 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
LMP737 wrote:

Didn't these fools know it's Trumps MO to use people then discard them the moment they are of no use to them?


How long you been following politics? They all do the same thing.


Please provide links to the times Clinton, Carter, Obama, Pelosi, Schumer, Ried, Kennedy demanded blind allegiance and told followers to overthrow the government.

Both sides do not do it. Say it again: BOTH SIDES DO NOT DO IT. Just keep repeating it. Both sides do not do it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 571251002/
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... ill-457549
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/21/politics ... index.html

Both sides do not do it.
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LMP737
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:22 pm

NIKV69 wrote:

How long you been following politics? They all do the same thing.


What ever helps you sleep at night.
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bennett123
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:37 pm

The amazing thing about Trump is that he chooses some 'incredible' candidate. Six months later, he sacks them 'because they are useless'.

No one seems to wonder why 'the greatest President in this or any other Universe' keeps picking useless candidates.
 
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OA412
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:59 pm

bennett123 wrote:
The amazing thing about Trump is that he chooses some 'incredible' candidate. Six months later, he sacks them 'because they are useless'.

No one seems to wonder why 'the greatest President in this or any other Universe' keeps picking useless candidates.

Or why the world’s greatest business man has declared bankruptcy 6 times.

Or why the world’s greatest he man is a petty gossip with thin skin.

Or why a man who’s so great with the ladies has to pay pornstars to sleep with him.

Etc.
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flipdewaf
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:25 pm

OA412 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
The amazing thing about Trump is that he chooses some 'incredible' candidate. Six months later, he sacks them 'because they are useless'.

No one seems to wonder why 'the greatest President in this or any other Universe' keeps picking useless candidates.

Or why the world’s greatest business man has declared bankruptcy 6 times.

Or why the world’s greatest he man is a petty gossip with thin skin.

Or why a man who’s so great with the ladies has to pay pornstars to sleep with him.

Etc.

I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again.
Trump is;
What a weak man thinks a strong man looks like
What a poor man thinks a rich man looks like
What a stupid man thinks a clever man looks like

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Image
 
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OA412
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:50 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
OA412 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
The amazing thing about Trump is that he chooses some 'incredible' candidate. Six months later, he sacks them 'because they are useless'.

No one seems to wonder why 'the greatest President in this or any other Universe' keeps picking useless candidates.

Or why the world’s greatest business man has declared bankruptcy 6 times.

Or why the world’s greatest he man is a petty gossip with thin skin.

Or why a man who’s so great with the ladies has to pay pornstars to sleep with him.

Etc.

I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again.
Trump is;
What a weak man thinks a strong man looks like
What a poor man thinks a rich man looks like
What a stupid man thinks a clever man looks like

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It’s 100% this.
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NIKV69
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:23 pm

OA412 wrote:
Or why the world’s greatest business man has declared bankruptcy 6 times.


Delta Airlines declared bankruptcy are they forever deemed no good? Of course not this argument is just more Trump derangement.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
wingman
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:41 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
OA412 wrote:
Or why the world’s greatest business man has declared bankruptcy 6 times.


Delta Airlines declared bankruptcy are they forever deemed no good? Of course not this argument is just more Trump derangement.


Delta is certainly much humbler for the experience. They continuously improve by absorbing their own lessons and those imparted by their rivals. Trump just spews pure caca out of his pie hole 24/7. He brings this ridicule upon himself and his sycophants. The best one is the myth about being a blue collar champion, understanding the people because hes one of them.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:46 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
OA412 wrote:
Or why the world’s greatest business man has declared bankruptcy 6 times.


Delta Airlines declared bankruptcy are they forever deemed no good? Of course not this argument is just more Trump derangement.


Delta can still get loans from major US banks. Trump has not been able to since the 1990s. That tells you everything. If you are persona non grata with all of them, it’s for a reason. He defrauded his own charity foundation and was court ordered to shut it down. C’mon now, it’s time to man up and admit this guy is no model of success.
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OA412
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:17 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
OA412 wrote:
Or why the world’s greatest business man has declared bankruptcy 6 times.


Delta Airlines declared bankruptcy are they forever deemed no good? Of course not this argument is just more Trump derangement.

Delta declared bankruptcy exactly once and was the most profitable US airline prior to the pandemic. Trump has filed 6 times, has failed at pretty much every business he’s ever undertaken, and, as Aaron mentioned, banks won’t touch him with a 10 foot barge pole and haven’t done so since the 90s. The two aren’t even in the same universe.

wingman wrote:
The best one is the myth about being a blue collar champion, understanding the people because hes one of them.

Yeah that’s also one of my favorites. Meanwhile he’s been quite clear he finds a lot of his supporters disgusting and called those storming the capital “trashy.”
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luckyone
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:11 am

OA412 wrote:

wingman wrote:
The best one is the myth about being a blue collar champion, understanding the people because hes one of them.

Yeah that’s also one of my favorites. Meanwhile he’s been quite clear he finds a lot of his supporters disgusting and called those storming the capital “trashy.”

On that, I concur with Trump. I try very hard to find common ground with everybody.
 
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seb146
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:31 am

luckyone wrote:
OA412 wrote:

wingman wrote:
The best one is the myth about being a blue collar champion, understanding the people because hes one of them.

Yeah that’s also one of my favorites. Meanwhile he’s been quite clear he finds a lot of his supporters disgusting and called those storming the capital “trashy.”

On that, I concur with Trump. I try very hard to find common ground with everybody.


I have heard some on the left compare his mask moment to the musical "Evita" when she is on the balcony but at least Evita actually did work and did rise through the ranks and worked.
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Aesma
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:24 am

So for the bipartisan congress investigation into this the GOP wants to include a couple of members who are involved in causing it ? What if they need to be heard ?
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Aaron747
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:55 pm

Aesma wrote:
So for the bipartisan congress investigation into this the GOP wants to include a couple of members who are involved in causing it ? What if they need to be heard ?


It’s worse than that - the GOP leader is now accusing the House Speaker of not activating the National Guard on 1/6, which is asinine considering the DC Guard is deployed at request of POTUS. He knows that but is trying to muddy the water.
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luckyone
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:04 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
So for the bipartisan congress investigation into this the GOP wants to include a couple of members who are involved in causing it ? What if they need to be heard ?


It’s worse than that - the GOP leader is now accusing the House Speaker of not activating the National Guard on 1/6, which is asinine considering the DC Guard is deployed at request of POTUS. He knows that but is trying to muddy the water.

McCarthy's problem is he knows that some of his people are going to come out looking very bad in this. Complicit? Who knows, but just like Benghazi and "her emails," perception is real, and the truth is not real.

Aesma wrote:
So for the bipartisan congress investigation into this the GOP wants to include a couple of members who are involved in causing it ? What if they need to be heard ?

Which is likely why Pelosi nixed two of the GOP nominations as they planned on questioning them.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:22 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
So for the bipartisan congress investigation into this the GOP wants to include a couple of members who are involved in causing it ? What if they need to be heard ?


It’s worse than that - the GOP leader is now accusing the House Speaker of not activating the National Guard on 1/6, which is asinine considering the DC Guard is deployed at request of POTUS. He knows that but is trying to muddy the water.


The POTUS had nothing to do with the deployment in Capitol Hil. Mayor Bowser was in charge of that, and if she asked the pentagon for help, that is still not clear. Trump or the WH had absolutely nothing to do with this.

https://wamu.org/story/21/01/11/dc-nati ... tol-delay/

Capitol hill police is controlled by congress. Pelosi should know more about what happened, when there were already concerns from 1/6, and why she did not react sooner to this.

So, whatever Trump might have been guilty on 1/6 it wasn't that he did not want to assist sending National guard troops to Capitol hill.
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seb146
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:09 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
So for the bipartisan congress investigation into this the GOP wants to include a couple of members who are involved in causing it ? What if they need to be heard ?


It’s worse than that - the GOP leader is now accusing the House Speaker of not activating the National Guard on 1/6, which is asinine considering the DC Guard is deployed at request of POTUS. He knows that but is trying to muddy the water.


The POTUS had nothing to do with the deployment in Capitol Hil. Mayor Bowser was in charge of that, and if she asked the pentagon for help, that is still not clear. Trump or the WH had absolutely nothing to do with this.

https://wamu.org/story/21/01/11/dc-nati ... tol-delay/

Capitol hill police is controlled by congress. Pelosi should know more about what happened, when there were already concerns from 1/6, and why she did not react sooner to this.

So, whatever Trump might have been guilty on 1/6 it wasn't that he did not want to assist sending National guard troops to Capitol hill.


SIX TIMES requests were sent out for back up. Even before the domestic terrorists breached the Capital in an attempt to overthrow the government. National Guard troops were told "from leaders" to not use any force.

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/rep ... -6th-riot/
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/0 ... s-a15.html
https://www.npr.org/2021/01/11/95554891 ... -during-ri

Besides, Democrats won. Why would Pelosi want right wing domestic terrorists to overthrow the government? Stop blaming Pelosi and Democrats for things MAGAs did.
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:11 pm

Nancy Pelosi says that she will add more republicans to the committee to make it a bipartisan committee.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said she is confident in the bipartisan select committee to investigate the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol, despite House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy pulling his recommendations.

We have to ignore the antics of those who do not want to find the truth, she told ABC "This Week" anchor George Stephanopoulos.


https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pelosi- ... d=79036536
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LCDFlight
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:34 pm

seb146 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
LMP737 wrote:

Didn't these fools know it's Trumps MO to use people then discard them the moment they are of no use to them?


How long you been following politics? They all do the same thing.


Please provide links to the times Clinton, Carter, Obama, Pelosi, Schumer, Ried, Kennedy demanded blind allegiance and told followers to overthrow the government.

Both sides do not do it. Say it again: BOTH SIDES DO NOT DO IT. Just keep repeating it. Both sides do not do it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 571251002/
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... ill-457549
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/21/politics ... index.html

Both sides do not do it.


Now wait a minute. When Trump was elected, a lot of people favored removing him. They said Resist, and he was not the real president. They said the election was a fraudulent, foreign attack. Finally, they realized Mueller would have to remove him. Then that didn’t work. It was theorized that generals might have to disobey his illegal or mentally ill commands. There are parallels, with the basic point that people deeply doubted that Trump was legitimately elected as president. That’s a genuine parallel. There is no reason to doubt either Biden or Trump’s wins. They were both clear beyond any doubt.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:41 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
So for the bipartisan congress investigation into this the GOP wants to include a couple of members who are involved in causing it ? What if they need to be heard ?


It’s worse than that - the GOP leader is now accusing the House Speaker of not activating the National Guard on 1/6, which is asinine considering the DC Guard is deployed at request of POTUS. He knows that but is trying to muddy the water.


The POTUS had nothing to do with the deployment in Capitol Hil. Mayor Bowser was in charge of that, and if she asked the pentagon for help, that is still not clear. Trump or the WH had absolutely nothing to do with this.

https://wamu.org/story/21/01/11/dc-nati ... tol-delay/

Capitol hill police is controlled by congress. Pelosi should know more about what happened, when there were already concerns from 1/6, and why she did not react sooner to this.

So, whatever Trump might have been guilty on 1/6 it wasn't that he did not want to assist sending National guard troops to Capitol hill.


This is correct. Capitol police is 2,000 strong or so. A massive force to protect one property. They report to the Legislative branch, not the Executive branch /Trump.

Trump riled up the crowd, but he did not say to do anything illegal. He was being a shit as usual, but he did not declare war. It was a classic crowd control issue that the Capitol police are well paid, well trained and well equipped to deal with. It turns out all that was no match for their laziness and their dereliction.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:12 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
So for the bipartisan congress investigation into this the GOP wants to include a couple of members who are involved in causing it ? What if they need to be heard ?


It’s worse than that - the GOP leader is now accusing the House Speaker of not activating the National Guard on 1/6, which is asinine considering the DC Guard is deployed at request of POTUS. He knows that but is trying to muddy the water.


The POTUS had nothing to do with the deployment in Capitol Hil. Mayor Bowser was in charge of that, and if she asked the pentagon for help, that is still not clear. Trump or the WH had absolutely nothing to do with this.

https://wamu.org/story/21/01/11/dc-nati ... tol-delay/

Capitol hill police is controlled by congress. Pelosi should know more about what happened, when there were already concerns from 1/6, and why she did not react sooner to this.

So, whatever Trump might have been guilty on 1/6 it wasn't that he did not want to assist sending National guard troops to Capitol hill.


I never mentioned anything you replied to. Read my post again. McCarthy accused Pelosi of not activating the DC National Guard when that is something she cannot do.

https://dc.ng.mil/About-Us/

https://www.wusa9.com/amp/article/news/ ... 52800d1554
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MaverickM11
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:49 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
seb146 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

How long you been following politics? They all do the same thing.


Please provide links to the times Clinton, Carter, Obama, Pelosi, Schumer, Ried, Kennedy demanded blind allegiance and told followers to overthrow the government.

Both sides do not do it. Say it again: BOTH SIDES DO NOT DO IT. Just keep repeating it. Both sides do not do it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 571251002/
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... ill-457549
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/21/politics ... index.html

Both sides do not do it.


Now wait a minute. When Trump was elected, a lot of people favored removing him. They said Resist, and he was not the real president. They said the election was a fraudulent, foreign attack. Finally, they realized Mueller would have to remove him. Then that didn’t work. It was theorized that generals might have to disobey his illegal or mentally ill commands. There are parallels, with the basic point that people deeply doubted that Trump was legitimately elected as president. That’s a genuine parallel. There is no reason to doubt either Biden or Trump’s wins. They were both clear beyond any doubt.

All of that is utter nonsense. No one was questioning or "auditing" the election 8 months later. Mueller did not exonerate him, no matter how much Barr lied to cover it up--regardless Barr self ejected anyway and now they're on terrible terms. The generals have almost to a man either publicly denounced him after the fact or transparently leaked damning stories left and right. There are parallels that the sky is blue in Nazi Germany just as it is in Canada, that doesn't mean they are the same. Conservatives want so bad to pretend that there are "both sides" and that they are not the rabid, white supremacist fascists living in another dimension that they've become, but there is no "other side" to that. Y'all stand alone.

LCDFlight wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

It’s worse than that - the GOP leader is now accusing the House Speaker of not activating the National Guard on 1/6, which is asinine considering the DC Guard is deployed at request of POTUS. He knows that but is trying to muddy the water.


The POTUS had nothing to do with the deployment in Capitol Hil. Mayor Bowser was in charge of that, and if she asked the pentagon for help, that is still not clear. Trump or the WH had absolutely nothing to do with this.

https://wamu.org/story/21/01/11/dc-nati ... tol-delay/

Capitol hill police is controlled by congress. Pelosi should know more about what happened, when there were already concerns from 1/6, and why she did not react sooner to this.

So, whatever Trump might have been guilty on 1/6 it wasn't that he did not want to assist sending National guard troops to Capitol hill.


This is correct. Capitol police is 2,000 strong or so. A massive force to protect one property. They report to the Legislative branch, not the Executive branch /Trump.

Trump riled up the crowd, but he did not say to do anything illegal. He was being a shit as usual, but he did not declare war. It was a classic crowd control issue that the Capitol police are well paid, well trained and well equipped to deal with. It turns out all that was no match for their laziness and their dereliction.


AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
So for the bipartisan congress investigation into this the GOP wants to include a couple of members who are involved in causing it ? What if they need to be heard ?


It’s worse than that - the GOP leader is now accusing the House Speaker of not activating the National Guard on 1/6, which is asinine considering the DC Guard is deployed at request of POTUS. He knows that but is trying to muddy the water.


The POTUS had nothing to do with the deployment in Capitol Hil. Mayor Bowser was in charge of that, and if she asked the pentagon for help, that is still not clear. Trump or the WH had absolutely nothing to do with this.

https://wamu.org/story/21/01/11/dc-nati ... tol-delay/

Capitol hill police is controlled by congress. Pelosi should know more about what happened, when there were already concerns from 1/6, and why she did not react sooner to this.

So, whatever Trump might have been guilty on 1/6 it wasn't that he did not want to assist sending National guard troops to Capitol hill.


I love the totally self-unaware duality of "Pelosi and everyone should have known [they did] that Trump supporters are violent knuckle dragging zombies planning an imminent attack" but also "Trump world did nothing wrong". Really makes you wonder what would have happened if the "Hang Mike Pence" Party, you know, succeeded. No one would ever be tried for it and it would be swept under the rug like we're seeing today.
Last edited by MaverickM11 on Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Aaron747
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:56 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Please provide links to the times Clinton, Carter, Obama, Pelosi, Schumer, Ried, Kennedy demanded blind allegiance and told followers to overthrow the government.

Both sides do not do it. Say it again: BOTH SIDES DO NOT DO IT. Just keep repeating it. Both sides do not do it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 571251002/
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... ill-457549
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/21/politics ... index.html

Both sides do not do it.


Now wait a minute. When Trump was elected, a lot of people favored removing him. They said Resist, and he was not the real president. They said the election was a fraudulent, foreign attack. Finally, they realized Mueller would have to remove him. Then that didn’t work. It was theorized that generals might have to disobey his illegal or mentally ill commands. There are parallels, with the basic point that people deeply doubted that Trump was legitimately elected as president. That’s a genuine parallel. There is no reason to doubt either Biden or Trump’s wins. They were both clear beyond any doubt.

All of that is utter nonsense. No one was questioning or "auditing" the election 8 months later. Mueller did not exonerate him, no matter how much Barr lied to cover it up--regardless Barr self ejected anyway and now they're on terrible terms. The generals have almost to a man either publicly denounced him after the fact or transparently leaked damning stories left and right. There are parallels that the sky is blue in Nazi Germany just as it is in Canada, that doesn't mean they are the same. Conservatives want so bad to pretend that there are "both sides" and that they are not the rabid, white supremacist fascists living in another dimension that they've become, but there is no "other side" to that. Y'all stand alone.


There’s also the authoritarian-loving fever cult of MAGA, laughably promoting freedom as fealty. It would be hilarious if it wasn’t damaging the country so terribly.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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seb146
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:35 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
seb146 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

How long you been following politics? They all do the same thing.


Please provide links to the times Clinton, Carter, Obama, Pelosi, Schumer, Ried, Kennedy demanded blind allegiance and told followers to overthrow the government.

Both sides do not do it. Say it again: BOTH SIDES DO NOT DO IT. Just keep repeating it. Both sides do not do it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 571251002/
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... ill-457549
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/21/politics ... index.html

Both sides do not do it.


Now wait a minute. When Trump was elected, a lot of people favored removing him. They said Resist, and he was not the real president. They said the election was a fraudulent, foreign attack. Finally, they realized Mueller would have to remove him. Then that didn’t work. It was theorized that generals might have to disobey his illegal or mentally ill commands. There are parallels, with the basic point that people deeply doubted that Trump was legitimately elected as president. That’s a genuine parallel. There is no reason to doubt either Biden or Trump’s wins. They were both clear beyond any doubt.


Thousands did not storm the Capital armed to the teeth beating police and screaming "STOP THE STEAL!!" so, again:

BOTH SIDES DO NOT DO IT

There is enough evidence that Russia interfered with our elections and that the MAGA leader was a plant

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... hite-house
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56423536

There were LEGAL investigations and LEGAL protests. Right wing media called them illegal even though NO PROTESTERS in 2016 tried to overthrow the government.

BOTH SIDES DO NOT DO IT
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LCDFlight
Posts: 1200
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:25 pm

seb146 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Please provide links to the times Clinton, Carter, Obama, Pelosi, Schumer, Ried, Kennedy demanded blind allegiance and told followers to overthrow the government.

Both sides do not do it. Say it again: BOTH SIDES DO NOT DO IT. Just keep repeating it. Both sides do not do it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 571251002/
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... ill-457549
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/21/politics ... index.html

Both sides do not do it.


Now wait a minute. When Trump was elected, a lot of people favored removing him. They said Resist, and he was not the real president. They said the election was a fraudulent, foreign attack. Finally, they realized Mueller would have to remove him. Then that didn’t work. It was theorized that generals might have to disobey his illegal or mentally ill commands. There are parallels, with the basic point that people deeply doubted that Trump was legitimately elected as president. That’s a genuine parallel. There is no reason to doubt either Biden or Trump’s wins. They were both clear beyond any doubt.


Thousands did not storm the Capital armed to the teeth beating police and screaming "STOP THE STEAL!!" so, again:

BOTH SIDES DO NOT DO IT

There is enough evidence that Russia interfered with our elections and that the MAGA leader was a plant

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... hite-house
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56423536

There were LEGAL investigations and LEGAL protests. Right wing media called them illegal even though NO PROTESTERS in 2016 tried to overthrow the government.

BOTH SIDES DO NOT DO IT


Do you really want to compare the amount of felony rioting / violent crimes between the two sides of political activism? The Jan 6 capitol riot was definitely an example of right wing people doing it. It wasn’t the side doing it in half the big American cities last year. I think Jan 6 was absolutely outrageous and police should have used their guns and billy clubs to repel the attack. There is nothing wrong with lawfully killing terrorists. That is exactly why the capitol police are armed in the first place. I think the police should quell all riots.
 
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seb146
Posts: 23881
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:53 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
seb146 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

Now wait a minute. When Trump was elected, a lot of people favored removing him. They said Resist, and he was not the real president. They said the election was a fraudulent, foreign attack. Finally, they realized Mueller would have to remove him. Then that didn’t work. It was theorized that generals might have to disobey his illegal or mentally ill commands. There are parallels, with the basic point that people deeply doubted that Trump was legitimately elected as president. That’s a genuine parallel. There is no reason to doubt either Biden or Trump’s wins. They were both clear beyond any doubt.


Thousands did not storm the Capital armed to the teeth beating police and screaming "STOP THE STEAL!!" so, again:

BOTH SIDES DO NOT DO IT

There is enough evidence that Russia interfered with our elections and that the MAGA leader was a plant

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... hite-house
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56423536

There were LEGAL investigations and LEGAL protests. Right wing media called them illegal even though NO PROTESTERS in 2016 tried to overthrow the government.

BOTH SIDES DO NOT DO IT


Do you really want to compare the amount of felony rioting / violent crimes between the two sides of political activism? The Jan 6 capitol riot was definitely an example of right wing people doing it. It wasn’t the side doing it in half the big American cities last year. I think Jan 6 was absolutely outrageous and police should have used their guns and billy clubs to repel the attack. There is nothing wrong with lawfully killing terrorists. That is exactly why the capitol police are armed in the first place. I think the police should quell all riots.


One side was protesting for justice and equality. The other wanted to overthrow the government. How is that even remotely the same?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Newark727
Posts: 2462
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:02 pm

Ah yes, I remember how Biden and Pelosi stood in the streets of Minneapolis that June and gathered their followers, urging them to start rioting.

Wait, that didn't fucking happen.

The comparison is pure gaslighting. We saw how both the Floyd protests and Trump's riots happened.
 
FGITD
Posts: 1690
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:16 am

You mean to tell me that there’s a difference in significance between storming the Capitol and trying to interfere with the peaceful transfer of power versus a peaceful protest devolving into looting Nike stores and other shops?!

What a wild notion.

If you take issue with private businesses being vandalized, but see no fault in the seat of government being attacked because people didn’t like who won an election, then congratulations on being part of the problem
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4681
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:20 am

Biden is on record saying he was not in favor of violent protests in any circumstances.

Trump was up on stage on 1/6 telling people to go to the capital building, and we will be right behind you.

There’s a difference.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 15624
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:35 am

LCDFlight wrote:
seb146 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

Now wait a minute. When Trump was elected, a lot of people favored removing him. They said Resist, and he was not the real president. They said the election was a fraudulent, foreign attack. Finally, they realized Mueller would have to remove him. Then that didn’t work. It was theorized that generals might have to disobey his illegal or mentally ill commands. There are parallels, with the basic point that people deeply doubted that Trump was legitimately elected as president. That’s a genuine parallel. There is no reason to doubt either Biden or Trump’s wins. They were both clear beyond any doubt.



Thousands did not storm the Capital armed to the teeth beating police and screaming "STOP THE STEAL!!" so, again:

BOTH SIDES DO NOT DO IT

There is enough evidence that Russia interfered with our elections and that the MAGA leader was a plant

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... hite-house
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56423536

There were LEGAL investigations and LEGAL protests. Right wing media called them illegal even though NO PROTESTERS in 2016 tried to overthrow the government.

BOTH SIDES DO NOT DO IT


Do you really want to compare the amount of felony rioting / violent crimes between the two sides of political activism? The Jan 6 capitol riot was definitely an example of right wing people doing it. It wasn’t the side doing it in half the big American cities last year. I think Jan 6 was absolutely outrageous and police should have used their guns and billy clubs to repel the attack. There is nothing wrong with lawfully killing terrorists. That is exactly why the capitol police are armed in the first place. I think the police should quell all riots.


Dead wrong. You still don’t understand who a lot of the rioters were. Obviously you have never encountered/met black brigade anarchists while joining a protest. We had problems with them usurping attention when doing Iraq War protests way back in 2002. They opportunistically show up to a lot of left-leaning protest events to destroy and burn. We have zero evidence the majority of rioters voted for a particular side, if they even vote at all.

Federal law enforcement officials tell CNN they are aware of organized groups who are seeking to carry out the property destruction and violence, using the cover of the legitimate protests in Minneapolis and elsewhere. Those domestic extremist groups include anarchists, anti-government groups often associated with far-right extremists and white supremacy causes, and far-left extremists who identify with anti-fascist ideology.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/05/31/poli ... index.html
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 1200
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:37 am

Aaron747 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
seb146 wrote:


Thousands did not storm the Capital armed to the teeth beating police and screaming "STOP THE STEAL!!" so, again:

BOTH SIDES DO NOT DO IT

There is enough evidence that Russia interfered with our elections and that the MAGA leader was a plant

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... hite-house
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56423536

There were LEGAL investigations and LEGAL protests. Right wing media called them illegal even though NO PROTESTERS in 2016 tried to overthrow the government.

BOTH SIDES DO NOT DO IT


Do you really want to compare the amount of felony rioting / violent crimes between the two sides of political activism? The Jan 6 capitol riot was definitely an example of right wing people doing it. It wasn’t the side doing it in half the big American cities last year. I think Jan 6 was absolutely outrageous and police should have used their guns and billy clubs to repel the attack. There is nothing wrong with lawfully killing terrorists. That is exactly why the capitol police are armed in the first place. I think the police should quell all riots.


Dead wrong. You still don’t understand who a lot of the rioters were. Obviously you have never encountered/met black brigade anarchists while joining a protest. We had problems with them usurping attention when doing Iraq War protests way back in 2002. They opportunistically show up to a lot of left-leaning protest events to destroy and burn. We have zero evidence the majority of rioters voted for a particular side, if they even vote at all.

Federal law enforcement officials tell CNN they are aware of organized groups who are seeking to carry out the property destruction and violence, using the cover of the legitimate protests in Minneapolis and elsewhere. Those domestic extremist groups include anarchists, anti-government groups often associated with far-right extremists and white supremacy causes, and far-left extremists who identify with anti-fascist ideology.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/05/31/poli ... index.html


I've already said I condemn the Jan 6 rioters and endorsed repelling them with lawful gunfire.. not sure how much clearer we can be about that.

And I never said I am against peaceful protests. Not at all. I think peaceful protests are great.

But unfortunately, violent crime such and riots happen. Some people want to hallucinate that only one side (or one race) is doing the violent crimes or the rioting. I understand we can quote people who believe that. They are fools.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 15624
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:41 am

LCDFlight wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

Do you really want to compare the amount of felony rioting / violent crimes between the two sides of political activism? The Jan 6 capitol riot was definitely an example of right wing people doing it. It wasn’t the side doing it in half the big American cities last year. I think Jan 6 was absolutely outrageous and police should have used their guns and billy clubs to repel the attack. There is nothing wrong with lawfully killing terrorists. That is exactly why the capitol police are armed in the first place. I think the police should quell all riots.


Dead wrong. You still don’t understand who a lot of the rioters were. Obviously you have never encountered/met black brigade anarchists while joining a protest. We had problems with them usurping attention when doing Iraq War protests way back in 2002. They opportunistically show up to a lot of left-leaning protest events to destroy and burn. We have zero evidence the majority of rioters voted for a particular side, if they even vote at all.

Federal law enforcement officials tell CNN they are aware of organized groups who are seeking to carry out the property destruction and violence, using the cover of the legitimate protests in Minneapolis and elsewhere. Those domestic extremist groups include anarchists, anti-government groups often associated with far-right extremists and white supremacy causes, and far-left extremists who identify with anti-fascist ideology.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/05/31/poli ... index.html


I've already said I condemn the Jan 6 rioters and endorsed repelling them with lawful gunfire.. not sure how much clearer we can be about that.

And I never said I am against peaceful protests. Not at all. I think peaceful protests are great.

But unfortunately, violent crime such and riots happen. Some people want to hallucinate that only one side (or one race) is doing the violent crimes or the rioting. I understand we can quote people who believe that. They are fools.


Yes but you stated in the previous post that both sides of political activism are rioting. I think you should pay attention to federal law enforcement's take on where a lot of that riot violence was coming from. It's not really 'political' activism - it's straight up anarchists who don't give a shit about any of us. They just use these events as cover to do what gets them going.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Challenger007
Posts: 29
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:38 am

Aaron747 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Dead wrong. You still don’t understand who a lot of the rioters were. Obviously you have never encountered/met black brigade anarchists while joining a protest. We had problems with them usurping attention when doing Iraq War protests way back in 2002. They opportunistically show up to a lot of left-leaning protest events to destroy and burn. We have zero evidence the majority of rioters voted for a particular side, if they even vote at all.

Federal law enforcement officials tell CNN they are aware of organized groups who are seeking to carry out the property destruction and violence, using the cover of the legitimate protests in Minneapolis and elsewhere. Those domestic extremist groups include anarchists, anti-government groups often associated with far-right extremists and white supremacy causes, and far-left extremists who identify with anti-fascist ideology.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/05/31/poli ... index.html


I've already said I condemn the Jan 6 rioters and endorsed repelling them with lawful gunfire.. not sure how much clearer we can be about that.

And I never said I am against peaceful protests. Not at all. I think peaceful protests are great.

But unfortunately, violent crime such and riots happen. Some people want to hallucinate that only one side (or one race) is doing the violent crimes or the rioting. I understand we can quote people who believe that. They are fools.


Yes but you stated in the previous post that both sides of political activism are rioting. I think you should pay attention to federal law enforcement's take on where a lot of that riot violence was coming from. It's not really 'political' activism - it's straight up anarchists who don't give a shit about any of us. They just use these events as cover to do what gets them going.


Then it is not very clear what the purpose of these riots was. Just to make it? I don't even know, it seems pointless to me - to endanger your health for the sake of some senseless act of violence or disobedience.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 15624
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:46 pm

Challenger007 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

I've already said I condemn the Jan 6 rioters and endorsed repelling them with lawful gunfire.. not sure how much clearer we can be about that.

And I never said I am against peaceful protests. Not at all. I think peaceful protests are great.

But unfortunately, violent crime such and riots happen. Some people want to hallucinate that only one side (or one race) is doing the violent crimes or the rioting. I understand we can quote people who believe that. They are fools.


Yes but you stated in the previous post that both sides of political activism are rioting. I think you should pay attention to federal law enforcement's take on where a lot of that riot violence was coming from. It's not really 'political' activism - it's straight up anarchists who don't give a shit about any of us. They just use these events as cover to do what gets them going.


Then it is not very clear what the purpose of these riots was. Just to make it? I don't even know, it seems pointless to me - to endanger your health for the sake of some senseless act of violence or disobedience.


You can't get in an anarchist's head because you're obviously not a nihilist like them.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 1200
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:02 pm

A nihilist is somebody who says riots are good. I say they are bad. And “activism” isn’t always good - it depends totally on the whys and hows.

I guess our key difference is equivalency between loony and loony right. I speak to that and I get shot down. You’re right that the Capitol attack was worse. It should have been put down with gunfire. The problem is, then it becomes our tiananmen. It was a shitty situation but I don’t believe it will happen again. The inner city riots are not a direct equivalent to the Capitol storming, but they were big and bad also. Is it nihilistic to suggest that both are a breakdown of society, no, there are animals out there who will burn us all, if we are dumb enough to let them. Pretty nihilistic then :)
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1394
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:48 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

It’s worse than that - the GOP leader is now accusing the House Speaker of not activating the National Guard on 1/6, which is asinine considering the DC Guard is deployed at request of POTUS. He knows that but is trying to muddy the water.


The POTUS had nothing to do with the deployment in Capitol Hil. Mayor Bowser was in charge of that, and if she asked the pentagon for help, that is still not clear. Trump or the WH had absolutely nothing to do with this.

https://wamu.org/story/21/01/11/dc-nati ... tol-delay/

Capitol hill police is controlled by congress. Pelosi should know more about what happened, when there were already concerns from 1/6, and why she did not react sooner to this.

So, whatever Trump might have been guilty on 1/6 it wasn't that he did not want to assist sending National guard troops to Capitol hill.


I never mentioned anything you replied to. Read my post again. McCarthy accused Pelosi of not activating the DC National Guard when that is something she cannot do.

https://dc.ng.mil/About-Us/

https://www.wusa9.com/amp/article/news/ ... 52800d1554


You stated that POTUS is who calls the DC guard, which is not accurate. DC mayor has the authority to do so, and request the pentagon to send the guard in. POTUS I believe does have authority around the WH area with federal troops.

As for Pelosi, if they truly want to make an investigation, she should be called as a witness and testify why was the security on 1/6 so lax around the capitol, when it was widely known that there were going to be protests. Of course she blamed it on anyone else besides her but it should.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2360
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:17 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:

You stated that POTUS is who calls the DC guard, which is not accurate. DC mayor has the authority to do so, and request the pentagon to send the guard in. POTUS I believe does have authority around the WH area with federal troops.

As for Pelosi, if they truly want to make an investigation, she should be called as a witness and testify why was the security on 1/6 so lax around the capitol, when it was widely known that there were going to be protests. Of course she blamed it on anyone else besides her but it should.


Don’t have a dog in this fight, but my curiosity was piqued by Banks saying the same thing about Pelosi and the Capitol Police yesterday on Fox. What’s the logic here? That the Capitol Police is accountable for whoever these folk were, doing whatever they did?

Seems to ignore the intent aspect - unless, of course, the intent of these folk was to show how unprepared the Capitol Police was for them.

These are strange times, but I can’t think of many western democracies that would think “there’s a political rally nearby, so let’s barricade the legislature”. That’s virtually unheard of in advanced democracies.

Rightly or wrongly, the social contract in western democracies assumes that protests won’t end with legislatures being swarmed. I suppose one could hold Pelosi and the Capitol Police accountable for not realizing that a group outside their control was going to breach the social contract in a rare (if not unprecedented) manner, but to what end?

It’ll be hard to paint them as the instigators (or provocateurs, if you’re so inclined).
 
luckyone
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:52 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

The POTUS had nothing to do with the deployment in Capitol Hil. Mayor Bowser was in charge of that, and if she asked the pentagon for help, that is still not clear. Trump or the WH had absolutely nothing to do with this.

https://wamu.org/story/21/01/11/dc-nati ... tol-delay/

Capitol hill police is controlled by congress. Pelosi should know more about what happened, when there were already concerns from 1/6, and why she did not react sooner to this.

So, whatever Trump might have been guilty on 1/6 it wasn't that he did not want to assist sending National guard troops to Capitol hill.


I never mentioned anything you replied to. Read my post again. McCarthy accused Pelosi of not activating the DC National Guard when that is something she cannot do.

https://dc.ng.mil/About-Us/

https://www.wusa9.com/amp/article/news/ ... 52800d1554


You stated that POTUS is who calls the DC guard, which is not accurate. DC mayor has the authority to do so, and request the pentagon to send the guard in. POTUS I believe does have authority around the WH area with federal troops.

As for Pelosi, if they truly want to make an investigation, she should be called as a witness and testify why was the security on 1/6 so lax around the capitol, when it was widely known that there were going to be protests. Of course she blamed it on anyone else besides her but it should.

Which conveniently distracts from the fact that a bunch of deranged loons broke through barriers and moved into the capitol and disrupted a Constitutional process in their zeal to support Donald Trump. Neat, obsequious trick.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 15624
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:02 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

The POTUS had nothing to do with the deployment in Capitol Hil. Mayor Bowser was in charge of that, and if she asked the pentagon for help, that is still not clear. Trump or the WH had absolutely nothing to do with this.

https://wamu.org/story/21/01/11/dc-nati ... tol-delay/

Capitol hill police is controlled by congress. Pelosi should know more about what happened, when there were already concerns from 1/6, and why she did not react sooner to this.

So, whatever Trump might have been guilty on 1/6 it wasn't that he did not want to assist sending National guard troops to Capitol hill.


I never mentioned anything you replied to. Read my post again. McCarthy accused Pelosi of not activating the DC National Guard when that is something she cannot do.

https://dc.ng.mil/About-Us/

https://www.wusa9.com/amp/article/news/ ... 52800d1554


You stated that POTUS is who calls the DC guard, which is not accurate. DC mayor has the authority to do so, and request the pentagon to send the guard in. POTUS I believe does have authority around the WH area with federal troops.

As for Pelosi, if they truly want to make an investigation, she should be called as a witness and testify why was the security on 1/6 so lax around the capitol, when it was widely known that there were going to be protests. Of course she blamed it on anyone else besides her but it should.


Your information is plain wrong. The DC mayor has limited authority that still requires DoD approval, as delegated by POTUS. The DC mayor's authority is limited to city streets and city land, not federal properties, of which there are obviously MANY in DC.

Mayor Muriel Bowser does not have the same authority over the D.C. National Guard that governors have over their states. She can only request guard troops from the Secretary of the Army. That request then gets sent up the chain of command to the Secretary of Defense for approval.

Even then, Bowser’s jurisdiction is limited. Because of the District’s finicky federal status of not being a state, she can only request guard troops to land that belongs to the city. That excludes federal territory, like the Capitol and its environs. The Secretary of Defense needs to approve the deployment of National Guard troops from any jurisdiction at federal land like the Capitol complex.


https://dcist.com/story/21/01/11/dc-nat ... tol-delay/

The chain of command could not be more clear:

As such, the Commanding General of the D.C. National Guard is subordinate solely to the President of the United States. This authority to activate the D.C. National Guard has been delegated, by the President, to the Secretary of Defense and further delegated to the Secretary of the Army. The D.C. National Guard is the only National Guard unit, out of all of the 54 states and territories, which reports only to the President.

https://dc.ng.mil/About-Us/
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:05 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
A nihilist is somebody who says riots are good. I say they are bad. And “activism” isn’t always good - it depends totally on the whys and hows.

I guess our key difference is equivalency between loony and loony right. I speak to that and I get shot down. You’re right that the Capitol attack was worse. It should have been put down with gunfire. The problem is, then it becomes our tiananmen. It was a shitty situation but I don’t believe it will happen again. The inner city riots are not a direct equivalent to the Capitol storming, but they were big and bad also. Is it nihilistic to suggest that both are a breakdown of society, no, there are animals out there who will burn us all, if we are dumb enough to let them. Pretty nihilistic then :)


My issue is simply the narrative that makes a blanket assumption that BLM/peaceful demonstrators/leftists in general are the same as anarchists who probably don't vote at all and get off on destroying property. In that sense there is little equivalency because the background and dynamics differ too greatly. If law enforcement has already made that distinction, then everyone else should too.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:21 pm

ElPistolero wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

You stated that POTUS is who calls the DC guard, which is not accurate. DC mayor has the authority to do so, and request the pentagon to send the guard in. POTUS I believe does have authority around the WH area with federal troops.

As for Pelosi, if they truly want to make an investigation, she should be called as a witness and testify why was the security on 1/6 so lax around the capitol, when it was widely known that there were going to be protests. Of course she blamed it on anyone else besides her but it should.


Don’t have a dog in this fight, but my curiosity was piqued by Banks saying the same thing about Pelosi and the Capitol Police yesterday on Fox. What’s the logic here? That the Capitol Police is accountable for whoever these folk were, doing whatever they did?

Seems to ignore the intent aspect - unless, of course, the intent of these folk was to show how unprepared the Capitol Police was for them.

These are strange times, but I can’t think of many western democracies that would think “there’s a political rally nearby, so let’s barricade the legislature”. That’s virtually unheard of in advanced democracies.

Rightly or wrongly, the social contract in western democracies assumes that protests won’t end with legislatures being swarmed. I suppose one could hold Pelosi and the Capitol Police accountable for not realizing that a group outside their control was going to breach the social contract in a rare (if not unprecedented) manner, but to what end?

It’ll be hard to paint them as the instigators (or provocateurs, if you’re so inclined).


Many of us in the right have condemned what happened in 1/6. Specifically the breaching and occupying of capitol hill. Anyone protesting outside peacefully can't and shouldn't be painted with the same brush. And any of us of the 70+ million who voted for Trump, can't be painted as supporters of what happened. Because the vast majority of us don't.

Trump is as culpable as many of the Democrat politicians who cheered on the summer riots of 2020, of inflaming the rhetoric which is not a good thing. What we on the right see is how they try to just use 1/6 as a moment to erase completely the other side a political purge of sorts.

Trump should be held to account, the same way Bernie Sanders should be held into account for his rhetoric leading to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressi ... l_shooting

But the way the MSM portrays is all about Democrat party narratives, and nuance, impartiality and objectivity is something of the past. Which is not doing anything to help the deep divisions we have in this country.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2360
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:35 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:

Many of us in the right have condemned what happened in 1/6. Specifically the breaching and occupying of capitol hill. Anyone protesting outside peacefully can't and shouldn't be painted with the same brush. And any of us of the 70+ million who voted for Trump, can't be painted as supporters of what happened. Because the vast majority of us don't.

Trump is as culpable as many of the Democrat politicians who cheered on the summer riots of 2020, of inflaming the rhetoric which is not a good thing. What we on the right see is how they try to just use 1/6 as a moment to erase completely the other side a political purge of sorts.

Trump should be held to account, the same way Bernie Sanders should be held into account for his rhetoric leading to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressi ... l_shooting

But the way the MSM portrays is all about Democrat party narratives, and nuance, impartiality and objectivity is something of the past. Which is not doing anything to help the deep divisions we have in this country.


That may all be true, but does dragging the Capitol Police into this help reduce division?

It sounds like they’re being used as a prop to get to Pelosi (which is part and parcel of this political “game”), but that risks turning them into targets of hostility (if they aren’t already - I suspect a fair few folk don’t like them on the back of this).

What’s the end game? Destroy the Capitol Police’s morale to have a go at Pelosi? Ask the Capitol Police why they didn’t use rubber bullets, teargas or worse when the barricades were breached (can’t imagine that would have gone down well, had it occurred).

Truth be told, this could happen in any western country. It doesn’t because the social contract always holds (or did anyway) - protesters respect the rules and the police plan accordingly. Last thing most of us want to see is armoured cars cordoning off legislatures in democracies.

So I guess I still don’t understand this angle. It seems a tad bit unfair to the Capitol Police. Worth the cost?
 
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seb146
Posts: 23881
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:59 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

Do you really want to compare the amount of felony rioting / violent crimes between the two sides of political activism? The Jan 6 capitol riot was definitely an example of right wing people doing it. It wasn’t the side doing it in half the big American cities last year. I think Jan 6 was absolutely outrageous and police should have used their guns and billy clubs to repel the attack. There is nothing wrong with lawfully killing terrorists. That is exactly why the capitol police are armed in the first place. I think the police should quell all riots.


Dead wrong. You still don’t understand who a lot of the rioters were. Obviously you have never encountered/met black brigade anarchists while joining a protest. We had problems with them usurping attention when doing Iraq War protests way back in 2002. They opportunistically show up to a lot of left-leaning protest events to destroy and burn. We have zero evidence the majority of rioters voted for a particular side, if they even vote at all.

Federal law enforcement officials tell CNN they are aware of organized groups who are seeking to carry out the property destruction and violence, using the cover of the legitimate protests in Minneapolis and elsewhere. Those domestic extremist groups include anarchists, anti-government groups often associated with far-right extremists and white supremacy causes, and far-left extremists who identify with anti-fascist ideology.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/05/31/poli ... index.html


I've already said I condemn the Jan 6 rioters and endorsed repelling them with lawful gunfire.. not sure how much clearer we can be about that.

And I never said I am against peaceful protests. Not at all. I think peaceful protests are great.

But unfortunately, violent crime such and riots happen. Some people want to hallucinate that only one side (or one race) is doing the violent crimes or the rioting. I understand we can quote people who believe that. They are fools.


Police show up heavily armed for BLM protests and immediately declare a riot and start lobbing tear gas into the crowd. No backup was called during the 1/6 domestic terror attack. There was no violence by protesters at all when Lafayette Square was cleared for a MAGA photo op.

I am not saying violence does not happen during protests. Obviously it does. But to compare BLM to the domestic terror attack of 1/6 is crazy.
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AirWorthy99
Posts: 1394
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:55 pm

ElPistolero wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Many of us in the right have condemned what happened in 1/6. Specifically the breaching and occupying of capitol hill. Anyone protesting outside peacefully can't and shouldn't be painted with the same brush. And any of us of the 70+ million who voted for Trump, can't be painted as supporters of what happened. Because the vast majority of us don't.

Trump is as culpable as many of the Democrat politicians who cheered on the summer riots of 2020, of inflaming the rhetoric which is not a good thing. What we on the right see is how they try to just use 1/6 as a moment to erase completely the other side a political purge of sorts.

Trump should be held to account, the same way Bernie Sanders should be held into account for his rhetoric leading to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressi ... l_shooting

But the way the MSM portrays is all about Democrat party narratives, and nuance, impartiality and objectivity is something of the past. Which is not doing anything to help the deep divisions we have in this country.


That may all be true, but does dragging the Capitol Police into this help reduce division?

It sounds like they’re being used as a prop to get to Pelosi (which is part and parcel of this political “game”), but that risks turning them into targets of hostility (if they aren’t already - I suspect a fair few folk don’t like them on the back of this).

What’s the end game? Destroy the Capitol Police’s morale to have a go at Pelosi? Ask the Capitol Police why they didn’t use rubber bullets, teargas or worse when the barricades were breached (can’t imagine that would have gone down well, had it occurred).

Truth be told, this could happen in any western country. It doesn’t because the social contract always holds (or did anyway) - protesters respect the rules and the police plan accordingly. Last thing most of us want to see is armoured cars cordoning off legislatures in democracies.

So I guess I still don’t understand this angle. It seems a tad bit unfair to the Capitol Police. Worth the cost?


No one in the GOP or on the right are dragging anyone to anything, other than Liz Cheney and Kinzinger.

Democrats want to investigate the events leading to 1/6 again. If that's the idea they are insisting on, everything related to 1/6 must be investigated, among them of course is the role of CHP on that day and the severe security lapses.

If the idea is to investigate Trump, they already did that with Impeachment 2, so what's really the point of investigating 1/6 with just one party supporting it and not focusing on the whole picture? probably its all political show, before the midterms.

Its all political, I believe the Justice Department and the FBI are investigating all of this already. So no point.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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seb146
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:00 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Many of us in the right have condemned what happened in 1/6. Specifically the breaching and occupying of capitol hill. Anyone protesting outside peacefully can't and shouldn't be painted with the same brush. And any of us of the 70+ million who voted for Trump, can't be painted as supporters of what happened. Because the vast majority of us don't.

Trump is as culpable as many of the Democrat politicians who cheered on the summer riots of 2020, of inflaming the rhetoric which is not a good thing. What we on the right see is how they try to just use 1/6 as a moment to erase completely the other side a political purge of sorts.

Trump should be held to account, the same way Bernie Sanders should be held into account for his rhetoric leading to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressi ... l_shooting

But the way the MSM portrays is all about Democrat party narratives, and nuance, impartiality and objectivity is something of the past. Which is not doing anything to help the deep divisions we have in this country.


That may all be true, but does dragging the Capitol Police into this help reduce division?

It sounds like they’re being used as a prop to get to Pelosi (which is part and parcel of this political “game”), but that risks turning them into targets of hostility (if they aren’t already - I suspect a fair few folk don’t like them on the back of this).

What’s the end game? Destroy the Capitol Police’s morale to have a go at Pelosi? Ask the Capitol Police why they didn’t use rubber bullets, teargas or worse when the barricades were breached (can’t imagine that would have gone down well, had it occurred).

Truth be told, this could happen in any western country. It doesn’t because the social contract always holds (or did anyway) - protesters respect the rules and the police plan accordingly. Last thing most of us want to see is armoured cars cordoning off legislatures in democracies.

So I guess I still don’t understand this angle. It seems a tad bit unfair to the Capitol Police. Worth the cost?


No one in the GOP or on the right are dragging anyone to anything, other than Liz Cheney and Kinzinger.

Democrats want to investigate the events leading to 1/6 again. If that's the idea they are insisting on, everything related to 1/6 must be investigated, among them of course is the role of CHP on that day and the severe security lapses.

If the idea is to investigate Trump, they already did that with Impeachment 2, so what's really the point of investigating 1/6 with just one party supporting it and not focusing on the whole picture? probably its all political show, before the midterms.

Its all political, I believe the Justice Department and the FBI are investigating all of this already. So no point.


How many Benghazi investigations were there and they all came to the same conclusion. Plus, Hillary testified under oath. What are the odds of any Republicans testifying under oath in regards to the 1/6 domestic terror attack?
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NIKV69
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:06 pm

seb146 wrote:

I am not saying violence does not happen during protests. Obviously it does. But to compare BLM to the domestic terror attack of 1/6 is crazy.


If I was a business owner watching my store burn to the ground and others looted I would probably disagree with you.
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ElPistolero
Posts: 2360
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:26 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:

No one in the GOP or on the right are dragging anyone to anything, other than Liz Cheney and Kinzinger.

Democrats want to investigate the events leading to 1/6 again. If that's the idea they are insisting on, everything related to 1/6 must be investigated, among them of course is the role of CHP on that day and the severe security lapses.

If the idea is to investigate Trump, they already did that with Impeachment 2, so what's really the point of investigating 1/6 with just one party supporting it and not focusing on the whole picture? probably its all political show, before the midterms.

Its all political, I believe the Justice Department and the FBI are investigating all of this already. So no point.


I suppose the issue then is whether the CHP security lapses were actually “severe”. In theory, they would only be severe if CHP knew in advance that this protest would deviate from the norm/previous protests, and did nothing about it.

It’s not clear that’s the case (or is it?). If it was premeditated, then there’s questions about what party operatives knew in advance. and what steps they took to stop it from happening - which would make this investigation even weirder.

In terms of broader conduct, if CHP had prepared for this the way they would for an armed assault by foreign actor/terrorist group/whatever, that would come with its own fire and brimstone (I suspect the protestors wouldn’t like to be compared to either - making it an optics nightmare for CHP).

Someone in there made a call to not expect an unprecedented situation. Wrongly as it turns out, but not necessarily unreasonably. In the likely absence of any advance information about pre-planned actions by protestors, it’s not clear what putting CHP on the spot would achieve. They’re in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation.

Which is why it’s odd. What’s the endgame? Hit CHP on the head for not making Capitol Hill - an emblem of freedom the world over - look like the Green Zone in Baghdad over a protest? To what end?
 
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seb146
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:22 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

I am not saying violence does not happen during protests. Obviously it does. But to compare BLM to the domestic terror attack of 1/6 is crazy.


If I was a business owner watching my store burn to the ground and others looted I would probably disagree with you.


And you could file an insurance claim. Do we have that for a violent coup?
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stratosphere
Posts: 2011
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:36 pm

seb146 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

I am not saying violence does not happen during protests. Obviously it does. But to compare BLM to the domestic terror attack of 1/6 is crazy.


If I was a business owner watching my store burn to the ground and others looted I would probably disagree with you.


And you could file an insurance claim. Do we have that for a violent coup?


We the taxpayers paid for the damage much like we the taxpayers paid for the fence and extra security following 1/6 and for this soon to be biased sham Pelosi investigation which will go no where much like we the taxpayer paid for the Trump Russian collusion investigation that also went no where. Government sure knows how to waste our money.

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