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art
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Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:46 pm

Donald Trump's behaviour has become very bizarre. Should he be relieved of his duties pending recovery?
 
PhilBy
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:50 pm

It's not any worse than when he was elected!
 
alfa164
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:52 pm

Many of us felt that way about him from his first day in office.

I think, with only 14 days left, he should be left alone; anything else might tend to make him a "martyr" among his most ardent followers, and we all know what problems that could bring.

As a precaution, though, now that his Twitter account has been taken away, the next thing to do is to take away the nuclear codes, too.
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art
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:04 pm

alfa164 wrote:
As a precaution, though, now that his Twitter account has been taken away, the next thing to do is to take away the nuclear codes, too.


How do you get the codes off him?

I am neither a doctor nor a psychiatrist but I find the US C-in-C's behaviour and expessed thoughts alarming. If he ordered the military to do something insane, would they do it? They are duty bound to follow orfers from their C-in-C.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:05 pm

Just so people are aware, the President can't just alone launch an attack, any attack nuclear or otherwise.
And you can see by the revolving door of military officials with Trump, that those people understand their duty and hold their honor to the nation, not the man.

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DoctorVenkman
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:09 pm

I think the main reason to remove him before inauguration day is the Presidential Pardon. It would be a shame if he cast a blanket pardon on himself and/or the rioters. A swift removal would hopefully stop that.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:10 pm

I feel to start impeachment or the 25th amendment with 13 days left doesn't make much sense. He isn't going to the inauguration and he sure doesn't want to see Biden so his plan all along was to walk out which he will do probably early next week.
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marcelh
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:23 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
I feel to start impeachment or the 25th amendment with 13 days left doesn't make much sense. He isn't going to the inauguration and he sure doesn't want to see Biden so his plan all along was to walk out which he will do probably early next week.

It makes a lot of sense as an statement.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:28 pm

marcelh wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
I feel to start impeachment or the 25th amendment with 13 days left doesn't make much sense. He isn't going to the inauguration and he sure doesn't want to see Biden so his plan all along was to walk out which he will do probably early next week.

It makes a lot of sense as an statement.


Pelosi just lowered the boom I look to see Trump gone by the weekend now.
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seb146
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:29 pm

There has been talk of removing him using the 25th Amendment for at least two years. His behavior has spiraled out of control and has made many statement that concern people. He should be impeached and removed for encouraging a coup since at least March. He has falsely claimed the election was rigged and the votes were fraudulent since at least then. His statements had become more violent and chaotic.
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art
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:30 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
I feel to start impeachment or the 25th amendment with 13 days left doesn't make much sense. He isn't going to the inauguration and he sure doesn't want to see Biden so his plan all along was to walk out which he will do probably early next week.


Don't know the US Constitution but I glanced at the 25th and got the impression that the Cabinet could vote to transfer power temporarily to the Vice President if the President ceased to be of capacity.

In the absence of that happening I hope he walks away from his office ASAP and does not return.
 
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:36 pm

art wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
I feel to start impeachment or the 25th amendment with 13 days left doesn't make much sense. He isn't going to the inauguration and he sure doesn't want to see Biden so his plan all along was to walk out which he will do probably early next week.


Don't know the US Constitution but I glanced at the 25th and got the impression that the Cabinet could vote to transfer power temporarily to the Vice President if the President ceased to be of capacity.

In the absence of that happening I hope he walks away from his office ASAP and does not return.


Also, impeachment and removal means no more running for elected office.

Best regards
Thomas
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luckyone
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:37 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
art wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
I feel to start impeachment or the 25th amendment with 13 days left doesn't make much sense. He isn't going to the inauguration and he sure doesn't want to see Biden so his plan all along was to walk out which he will do probably early next week.


Don't know the US Constitution but I glanced at the 25th and got the impression that the Cabinet could vote to transfer power temporarily to the Vice President if the President ceased to be of capacity.

In the absence of that happening I hope he walks away from his office ASAP and does not return.


Also, impeachment and removal means no more running for elected office.

Best regards
Thomas

Technically this could happen after he has left office.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:43 pm

Trump can continue, and I expect more rats will jump ship, but at this point it isn't about his capacity. it is about the Republican party's capacity for being a part of this as it dawns on them how bad this really is for the party.

I think we can all agree I have been calling this for years, that Trump is a lying , cheating, misogynist, racist, fascist, coward.

At this point the GOP needs to realize how much they have let that stink sink in to the party as a whole. The GOP needs to make some corrections with the help of the democrats. There are some Republicans( quite a few actually) that still have not realized how badly they have positioned the party, themselves, and their supporters.
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bennett123
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:19 pm

Security codes are routinely changed, even at work.

Perhaps the codes HAVE been changed and they forgot to tell him.
 
M564038
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:26 pm

I don’t think he has ever had the correct codes.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:34 pm

luckyone wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
art wrote:

Don't know the US Constitution but I glanced at the 25th and got the impression that the Cabinet could vote to transfer power temporarily to the Vice President if the President ceased to be of capacity.

In the absence of that happening I hope he walks away from his office ASAP and does not return.


Also, impeachment and removal means no more running for elected office.

Best regards
Thomas

Technically this could happen after he has left office.


Yup, but why wait. Pardon would be out of the window too.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:45 pm

No, he doesn't. But options like 2nd impeachment or 25th are not good in a divided nation.

If there is a Hollywood set of White House, move him there for the next 13 days, give him fake social media accounts, let him live in his own world.
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art
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:17 pm

I just saw Pelosi address a message to Mike Pence, the gist being "Implement the 25th Amendment to remove Trump or impeachment proceedings will be started."

It occurs to me that if several cabinet members resign. it may not be possible for the 25th to be used to remove Trump.,
 
LMP737
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:19 pm

art wrote:

How do you get the codes off him?

I am neither a doctor nor a psychiatrist but I find the US C-in-C's behaviour and expessed thoughts alarming. If he ordered the military to do something insane, would they do it? They are duty bound to follow orfers from their C-in-C.


People are making a big deal about his Twitter and Facebook accounts being frozen, I'm not going to lose too much sleep over that. What worries me is some eleventh hour order for a strike against Iran as one last FU to the country, and the world. Which begs the question if he were to do so would the order be obeyed and would this be the final trigger of the 25 Amendment?
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art
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:29 pm

LMP737 wrote:
art wrote:
I am neither a doctor nor a psychiatrist but I find the US C-in-C's behaviour and expessed thoughts alarming. If he ordered the military to do something insane, would they do it? They are duty bound to follow orfers from their C-in-C.


What worries me is some eleventh hour order for a strike against Iran as one last FU to the country, and the world. Which begs the question if he were to do so would the order be obeyed and would this be the final trigger of the 25 Amendment?


Yes, I was wondering if he might consider a strike against Iran. If he does try to do something of that ilk, I hope Pence acts fast to stop it.
 
LMP737
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:32 pm

NIKV69 wrote:

Pelosi just lowered the boom I look to see Trump gone by the weekend now.


I see him holding on to the bitter end. Hoping for some one minute before midnight reprieve.
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LMP737
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:34 pm

art wrote:

Yes, I was wondering if he might consider a strike against Iran. If he does try to do something of that ilk, I hope Pence acts fast to stop it.


That is the million dollar question. Will Pence and the JCS step in?
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art
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:50 pm

In a BBC interview with Mary Trump (niece of Donald) about Trump, she said she thought he would be feeling desperate. She finished by saying:

"The next 2 weeks may be among the most dangerous in this nation's history."
 
NIKV69
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:00 pm

LMP737 wrote:
art wrote:

Yes, I was wondering if he might consider a strike against Iran. If he does try to do something of that ilk, I hope Pence acts fast to stop it.


That is the million dollar question. Will Pence and the JCS step in?


Iran is the last thing on his mind, right now he is planning on what night he is fleeing and the logistics of how to get from the airport to mar a lago.
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Kent350787
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:39 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
LMP737 wrote:
art wrote:

Yes, I was wondering if he might consider a strike against Iran. If he does try to do something of that ilk, I hope Pence acts fast to stop it.


That is the million dollar question. Will Pence and the JCS step in?


Iran is the last thing on his mind, right now he is planning on what night he is fleeing and the logistics of how to get from the airport to mar a lago.


I thought it had already been announced he will head to FL before the inaugauration.
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:53 pm

Nick is right that he’s certainly eyeing the exits. Word on the street in DC is that they’re drafting a WH preemptive pardon list that includes Trump and his family, Stephen Miller, Dan Scavino and others.
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Alias1024
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:54 pm

We have a big problem on our hands after yesterday and as I see it four not very good options. I keep mulling over them in my head and there's no obvious choice.

1) Impeach and remove from office. The correct way to handle a president that does something as reprehensible as Trump has done since the election. The problem is that it will take some time and may turn Trump into a martyr in the eyes of his supporters, and may not be able to generate enough support in the Senate to get a conviction and removal from office. Trump might run out the clock while continuing to do damage as he rallies his supporters against impeachment.

2) Invoke the 25th amendment. Faster but with the same downside of potential martyrdom to Trump fans and a more slippery slope. I think the argument could be made that Trump is unable to discharge his duties, not due to incapacitation or illness, but because nobody around him will carry out his orders. Reports that yesterday the VP Pence, Speaker Pelosi, acting Defense Secretary Miller, and other high officials basically froze out Trump and worked around him paint that picture. The multiple resignations in his cabinet today show a collapsing leadership team and leader that can't function. Is the president's staff giving him the preverbal middle finger being reason enough to remove a president a road we want to head down?

3) Soft coup. We may have this now. Telling Trump to sit in the corner and play with his toys for the next two weeks sounds like a reasonable idea except that it's totally unconstitutional. Further, what if there's a national emergency between now and January 20th like a natural disaster or terrorist attack. Someone needs to be able to use the powers of the presidency to organize a response without those farther down the chain worrying about the constitutionality of those orders.

4) Leave him alone, follow his lawful orders, and hope the adults in the room can talk him down from doing anything else truly damaging. Obviously this presents a danger in leaving the powers of the presidency vested in a man that provoked insurrection against the government.
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LMP737
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:25 am

NIKV69 wrote:

Iran is the last thing on his mind, right now he is planning on what night he is fleeing and the logistics of how to get from the airport to mar a lago.


I have no idea what's going through his mind, and neither do you. And I don't think either one of us wants to know.

It's a what if scenario and I'm sue there are people in the White House and DOD who are going over those scenarios.
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seb146
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:57 am

art wrote:
I just saw Pelosi address a message to Mike Pence, the gist being "Implement the 25th Amendment to remove Trump or impeachment proceedings will be started."

It occurs to me that if several cabinet members resign. it may not be possible for the 25th to be used to remove Trump.,


I am wondering, though: many of those cabinet members are "acting" and were never vetted or confirmed by the Senate as a normal cabinet member would be. So, I don't think it would be possible, given they are nearly all "acting" and have no real power and they are all loyalists to the MAGA movement. I think impeachment is the only way now.
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seb146
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:59 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Iran is the last thing on his mind, right now he is planning on what night he is fleeing and the logistics of how to get from the airport to mar a lago.


I think he would find a safe space. Read: a country that has good weather for golfing and no extradition treaty with the United States. Like Russia or Turkey. He will abandon Mar A Lago in a heartbeat if he can get out of facing any criminal charges!
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Moose135
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:14 am

art wrote:
It occurs to me that if several cabinet members resign. it may not be possible for the 25th to be used to remove Trump.,

The 25th requires a majority of the cabinet ("Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments ...") but it doesn't specify how many people that entails. Right now, there are 23 members in the cabinet, including Pence, so you would 12 including Pence. If two or three resign, you would need half of those remaining - say two resign, 11 of 21 plus Pence.

seb146 wrote:
I am wondering, though: many of those cabinet members are "acting" and were never vetted or confirmed by the Senate as a normal cabinet member would be. So, I don't think it would be possible, given they are nearly all "acting" and have no real power and they are all loyalists to the MAGA movement. I think impeachment is the only way now.


According to the official White House site, only three are listed as "acting" and the amendment doesn't specify "acting" or not.
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:18 am

Pompeo and Mnuchin apparently have considered removal of the President via the 25th Amendment.
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:21 am

bennett123 wrote:
Security codes are routinely changed, even at work.

Perhaps the codes HAVE been changed and they forgot to tell him.


POTUS does have a card with a code to authenticate himself, but the codes used to order nuclear strikes are contained in a briefcase (the "nuclear football") which a military aide carries. The aide is always close by to POTUS - when traveling, you will often see him/her trailing behind POTUS. In the event of an emergency, both the President's authentication card and the codes would be needed. And yes, I'm sure those codes are changed frequently.
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Newark727
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:28 am

25th seems unlikely - seems a lot of the cabinet would rather resign.
 
acavpics
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:58 am

Alias1024 wrote:

3) Soft coup. We may have this now. Telling Trump to sit in the corner and play with his toys for the next two weeks sounds like a reasonable idea except that it's totally unconstitutional. Further, what if there's a national emergency between now and January 20th like a natural disaster or terrorist attack. Someone needs to be able to use the powers of the presidency to organize a response without those farther down the chain worrying about the constitutionality of those orders.


For the sake of preventing more violence, I am beginning to lean towards this as the best idea. I just have this possibly paranoid thought at the back of my head that impeachment, 25A, or any forceful removal will aggravate his supporters further and cause more violence.

That being said, I would REALLY love to see charges pressed against Trump and those who incited violence. It would be GREAT to see an arrest warrant for Trump after he leaves, so then he will likely be out of influence for the right wing conspiracy nuts that are out there.
 
luckyone
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:43 am

acavpics wrote:
Alias1024 wrote:

3) Soft coup. We may have this now. Telling Trump to sit in the corner and play with his toys for the next two weeks sounds like a reasonable idea except that it's totally unconstitutional. Further, what if there's a national emergency between now and January 20th like a natural disaster or terrorist attack. Someone needs to be able to use the powers of the presidency to organize a response without those farther down the chain worrying about the constitutionality of those orders.


For the sake of preventing more violence, I am beginning to lean towards this as the best idea. I just have this possibly paranoid thought at the back of my head that impeachment, 25A, or any forceful removal will aggravate his supporters further and cause more violence.

That being said, I would REALLY love to see charges pressed against Trump and those who incited violence. It would be GREAT to see an arrest warrant for Trump after he leaves, so then he will likely be out of influence for the right wing conspiracy nuts that are out there.

To actually invoke the 25th would take more than 13 days. Trump, as the sitting president, would have every right to challenge it. It would likely cause more problems than it would answer. Let’s say the 25th is invoked, and Pence is acting POTUS while Trump objects. Let’s say Trump’s objection is upheld. Did Pence’s Presidency count? What happens to decisions and or EOs that we’re implemented? What happens with regards to any foreign policy decisions?

Putting Donny Boy in the corner with his toys, well, for better or worse it would not be the first time a POTUS has been propped up, and it also reflects that perhaps we also OVER emphasize the power of the POTUS vs the redundancies built into our system — Wilson, some say Reagan, possibly FDR, William Henry Harrison was sick for his entire monthlong presidency, depending on whom one believes JFK was doped up a fair bit during his tenure, etc etc.
 
LMP737
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:09 am

Alias1024 wrote:

3) Soft coup. We may have this now. Telling Trump to sit in the corner and play with his toys for the next two weeks sounds like a reasonable idea except that it's totally unconstitutional. Further, what if there's a national emergency between now and January 20th like a natural disaster or terrorist attack. Someone needs to be able to use the powers of the presidency to organize a response without those farther down the chain worrying about the constitutionality of those orders.
t.


There's a possible historic precedence for this. Evidently in the time just before his resignation Secretary of Defense James Schlesinger reportedly had certain orders cleared by himself or Kissinger. In particular anything nuclear related. The story goes Nixon had scared Schlesinger when he stated he could kill millions of people with a simple phone call.

Of course no one told Nixon this was going on nor is there an actual paper trail, i.e. orders, to back this up. Simple explanation Schlesinger knew better than to put into writing. Whether or not anything like that is going on now, who knows. I'm sure it will come out one day.
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Alias1024
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:20 am

acavpics wrote:
Alias1024 wrote:

3) Soft coup. We may have this now. Telling Trump to sit in the corner and play with his toys for the next two weeks sounds like a reasonable idea except that it's totally unconstitutional. Further, what if there's a national emergency between now and January 20th like a natural disaster or terrorist attack. Someone needs to be able to use the powers of the presidency to organize a response without those farther down the chain worrying about the constitutionality of those orders.


For the sake of preventing more violence, I am beginning to lean towards this as the best idea. I just have this possibly paranoid thought at the back of my head that impeachment, 25A, or any forceful removal will aggravate his supporters further and cause more violence.


I put it out there but it's my least favored option. I can understand the appeal of not giving his supporters any new grievances, but a soft coup is not something that should happen in a mature democracy. There are mechanisms in place to remove unfit presidents, and as painful as it may be in the short run, for the integrity of our system of government I don't think I could support this option if I were in a position of influence.

luckyone wrote:
To actually invoke the 25th would take more than 13 days. Trump, as the sitting president, would have every right to challenge it. It would likely cause more problems than it would answer. Let’s say the 25th is invoked, and Pence is acting POTUS while Trump objects. Let’s say Trump’s objection is upheld. Did Pence’s Presidency count? What happens to decisions and or EOs that we’re implemented? What happens with regards to any foreign policy decisions?


If invoked, Pence would immediately assume the powers of the president. The process by which Trump would regain his powers would take no less than four days, but likely longer if it winds up in the hands of congress.

25th amendment, section 4 wrote:
Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.
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Sokes
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:31 am

If the secret Service had offered Trump the same type of protection Gaddafi enjoyed, we wouldn't have all that trouble now.

As somebody who rather supported Trump's foreign policy ( don't know about domestic) I have to admit he is embarrassing since the election. I wonder how many supporters are left.

It's time he leaves office and grabs a snickers. Once he can be his old self again he should be o.k. .
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cpd
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:36 am

How do we know that he won’t just continue to organise unrest and mob violence from his supporters even after Biden takes over as President?

Biden will be stuck in a quagmire of unrest and insurrection and this will give the Republicans the chance to say Biden failed and that he is no good, then they will take back power in four years.

Trust me, they will probably already be thinking of this.
 
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Moose135
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:49 am

Sokes wrote:
Once he can be his old self again he should be o.k. .

I've watched him since his days in the New York real estate world. His old self was pretty shitty too.
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davidjohnson6
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Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:59 am

cpd wrote:
How do we know that he won’t just continue to organise unrest and mob violence from his supporters even after Biden takes over as President?
Biden will be stuck in a quagmire of unrest and insurrection and this will give the Republicans the chance to say Biden failed and that he is no good, then they will take back power in four years.
Trust me, they will probably already be thinking of this.


Once a politician loses power and becomes an ordinary citizen, their exposure on TV, radio and newspapers shrinks significantly. Yes, there is of course social media, but if he encourages unrest/insurrection he is likely to find Twitter, Facebook, etc. deciding to make his life more difficult
Trump will still have access to the likes of Parler but these have a much narrower audience than Twitter and it becomes harder to broadcast messages to a wide audience

The USA has a strong capability at law enforcement. Consistent violence and insurrection coming from one direction are unlikely to be ignored for very long
Last edited by davidjohnson6 on Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 1100
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:00 am

I think it would be wise of the cabinet to put Pence in charge.

There is ample reason. He is guilty of treason now. It needs to be beyond a reasonable doubt. Corruption is nothing new; recent presidents even started wars for corrupt purposes, killing innocent people. What Trump did is less serious, but it is undeniably treason. It is dangerous to have this type of power vaccuum even for 2 weeks. Pence is in position to finish out the term, and it's time.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14563
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:11 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
No, he doesn't. But options like 2nd impeachment or 25th are not good in a divided nation.


"Don´t enforce laws because some people may not like it" is a fairly novel approach to "Law & Order".

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 1457
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:23 am

Laying ordinary criminal charges against a sitting President of the USA is extremely difficult. A sitting President is treated very differently to all other citizens of the USA by the justice system
Any use of impeachment or the 25th against Trump will most likely turn political - the judge, jury and jailers are all politicians.
As such, any decisions as to what to do will invariably be somewhat political in nature
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14563
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:29 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Any use of impeachment or the 25th against Trump will most likely turn political - the judge, jury and jailers are all politicians


the judge would be an actual Judge, and there are no jailers, so no.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:54 am

art wrote:
In a BBC interview with Mary Trump (niece of Donald) about Trump, she said she thought he would be feeling desperate. She finished by saying:

"The next 2 weeks may be among the most dangerous in this nation's history."

[photoid][/photoid]


...and since she's known him all her life and has known him longer/better than any of us..that is a solid indicator that should be met with great heed.


He's got nothing to lose.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
NYCVIE
Posts: 384
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:01 pm

Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:34 am

This is a really delicate situation but something needs to be considered. How long does Congress/his cabinet continue to allow themselves to be held hostage by his baseless rhetoric and loopy supporters? It's a very slippery slope to know what should be done but to not do it out of fear of what his supporters might do. Now, thats a very legitimate fear, but still - imagine if Trump hypothetically DID shoot someone on Fifth Avenue tomorrow. Of course he'll have his die hard supporters that will stand by him no matter what. But should nothing be done because we're scared of his supporters?

This is the United States of America. We've (many times wrongly) stomped through the world showing how powerful we are. How are we going to sit by in fear of... Donald Trump of all people? Just because he and his supporters are mad that he lost this election because of imaginary fraud doesn't mean there needs to be any legitimacy given towards that seeing as there is no evidence to support that and it's over.

So in my mind even though impeachment may not result in his removal, there needs to be some type of consequence for literally inciting domestic terrorism (as the PRESIDENT!) Because if they sit by and let him tweet away for two weeks and hope nothing bad happens he's sure as hell not going away. And it sends a message that if you build a movement strong enough you can bypass the rule of law, the Constitution, and any legal institutions that exist in this country.

Even politically, this is perhaps the golden opportunity for the Republicans to have a backbone and take a stand against Trump. They've already lost all chambers of the government in spectacular fashion, Trump has made it clear that the GOP is his enemy, and the fact that he incited such a reprehensible act gives them a chance to try to start moving on. Because realistically as long as the overall party is tied to Trump they have no future.
 
WIederling
Posts: 10043
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Does Trump have sufficient capacity to continue?

Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:10 am

bennett123 wrote:
Security codes are routinely changed, even at work.

Perhaps the codes HAVE been changed and they forgot to tell him.


0 - 0 - 0 - 0

.. for a long time afaik.
Murphy is an optimist

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