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FGITD
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:33 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-polic ... -stimulus/

Romney wants to add in $3000 per year for children. Not a bad idea in my opinion.

Apparently some conservatives are against it because it might "discourage parents from seeking employment"

These people are severely out of touch with the reality that their own constituents live in. . Not getting a job after getting $3k? Might as well quit my job then, after all I did just win $100 on a scratch off. My future is financially secure.
 
Okie
Posts: 4250
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:47 pm

FGITD wrote:
Apparently some conservatives are against it because it might "discourage parents from seeking employment"


Well I noticed a bunch of parents with means who have been previously paying for their offspring's education (can we still say offspring?) have had them get a loan so they will be on the bread line for the 10k student loan bail out.

With interest rates this low just a few hundred extra bucks if the free 10k bill student loan pay off fails to pass..

Okie
 
NIKV69
Topic Author
Posts: 14323
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:47 pm

FGITD wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2021/02/04/romney-child-benefit-stimulus/

Romney wants to add in $3000 per year for children. Not a bad idea in my opinion.

Apparently some conservatives are against it because it might "discourage parents from seeking employment"

These people are severely out of touch with the reality that their own constituents live in. . Not getting a job after getting $3k? Might as well quit my job then, after all I did just win $100 on a scratch off. My future is financially secure.


I would rather give them a boost to the stimulus check per child now and wait 5 months or so and see how the economy is doing.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2624
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:38 pm

In the end it is all due to the choice lawmakers have made over the past decennia. A simply minimum wage hike will not address that.

It is lawmakers that voted to allow loopholes in the tax code for the rich while giving the middle class the shaft.
It is lawmakers that voted to allow businesses to offshore labor, and thereby destroying domestic jobs.
It is lawmakers that voted to disallow competition in the domestic drug market, thereby ensuring skyrocketing drug prices.
It is lawmakers that voted to give all power to the medical-industrial complex, thereby making health care the most unaffordable in Western countries.
It is lawmakers that vote for continuous WallStreet bailouts, while giving the middle class the shaft.
etc. etc. etc.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:45 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
In the end it is all due to the choice lawmakers have made over the past decennia. A simply minimum wage hike will not address that.

It is lawmakers that voted to allow loopholes in the tax code for the rich while giving the middle class the shaft.
It is lawmakers that voted to allow businesses to offshore labor, and thereby destroying domestic jobs.
It is lawmakers that voted to disallow competition in the domestic drug market, thereby ensuring skyrocketing drug prices.
It is lawmakers that voted to give all power to the medical-industrial complex, thereby making health care the most unaffordable in Western countries.
It is lawmakers that vote for continuous WallStreet bailouts, while giving the middle class the shaft.
etc. etc. etc.


In the end, perhaps, but lots more to it than just Congress. Being wealthy pays, especially when two tiers of society are created where rule of law always applies in one and not the other.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:11 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2021/02/04/romney-child-benefit-stimulus/

Romney wants to add in $3000 per year for children. Not a bad idea in my opinion.

Apparently some conservatives are against it because it might "discourage parents from seeking employment"

These people are severely out of touch with the reality that their own constituents live in. . Not getting a job after getting $3k? Might as well quit my job then, after all I did just win $100 on a scratch off. My future is financially secure.


I would rather give them a boost to the stimulus check per child now and wait 5 months or so and see how the economy is doing.


At least the entire Senate (except Rand Paul) can agree that wealthy Americans don’t need stimulus checks:

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/13574 ... 41025?s=21
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:28 pm

Bernie went across the aisle and agreed with Senator Ernst that immediate $15 minimum wage is counterproductive, and clarified the original spirit of its inclusion in the bill.

"It was never my intention to increase the minimum wage to $15 immediately and during the pandemic," Sanders said. "My legislation gradually increases the minimum wage to $15 an hour over a five-year period and that is what I believe we have got to do."

He added that was going to support Ernst's amendment "because nobody is talking about doubling the federal minimum wage during the pandemic."

The amendment ultimately passed the Senate by a voice vote, instead of the high-stakes roll call vote that budget watchers were waiting for Republicans to force.


https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/537 ... nimum-wage
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:35 pm

Senate passed the bill, I would say good job Dems. Didn't waste too much time on bi-partisanship.

Now we will know what it is in it, because other than the interns who typed the bill, no one has a clue, including legislators who voted on it.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:51 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Bernie went across the aisle and agreed with Senator Ernst that immediate $15 minimum wage is counterproductive, and clarified the original spirit of its inclusion in the bill.

"It was never my intention to increase the minimum wage to $15 immediately and during the pandemic," Sanders said. "My legislation gradually increases the minimum wage to $15 an hour over a five-year period and that is what I believe we have got to do."

He added that was going to support Ernst's amendment "because nobody is talking about doubling the federal minimum wage during the pandemic."

The amendment ultimately passed the Senate by a voice vote, instead of the high-stakes roll call vote that budget watchers were waiting for Republicans to force.


https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/537 ... nimum-wage



The five year time frame is about what I would have expected. By then the current 11.50 inflation adjusted wage will be closer to 15 anyway. Need to read more on this bill.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:09 pm

Senate passed a bill along party lines. Not even a single vote from one of the 'moderate' Republicans. Not good if you want to tout you are 'uniting' the country.

To make matters worse, even Democrats are saying the bill is just too much money https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... -stimulus/, that could risk high inflation down the run.

This is not free money, and although many people do really need cash, ideally those hurting should receive the cash. And the government's job is to allow businesses to open so that people can get back to work, not depend on the government.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:12 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Senate passed a bill along party lines. Not even a single vote from one of the 'moderate' Republicans. Not good if you want to tout you are 'uniting' the country.

To make matters worse, even Democrats are saying the bill is just too much money https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... -stimulus/, that could risk high inflation down the run.

This is not free money, and although many people do really need cash, ideally those hurting should receive the cash. And the government's job is to allow businesses to open so that people can get back to work, not depend on the government.


‘Not a single vote’ from the other side is not a rallying cry anymore after how the corporate tax cuts were rammed through with the same procedure in 2017.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:36 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Senate passed a bill along party lines. Not even a single vote from one of the 'moderate' Republicans. Not good if you want to tout you are 'uniting' the country.

To make matters worse, even Democrats are saying the bill is just too much money https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... -stimulus/, that could risk high inflation down the run.

This is not free money, and although many people do really need cash, ideally those hurting should receive the cash. And the government's job is to allow businesses to open so that people can get back to work, not depend on the government.


That shows Collins and Romney are all talk.
All posts are just opinions.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:38 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Senate passed the bill, I would say good job Dems. Didn't waste too much time on bi-partisanship.

Now we will know what it is in it, because other than the interns who typed the bill, no one has a clue, including legislators who voted on it.


Looks like they had to get rid of high earners getting money and ditch the minimum wage thing. Not a surprise seeing they probably didn't have Manchin's vote until they did.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/04/us/p ... -vote.html
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:49 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Senate passed the bill, I would say good job Dems. Didn't waste too much time on bi-partisanship.

Now we will know what it is in it, because other than the interns who typed the bill, no one has a clue, including legislators who voted on it.


Looks like they had to get rid of high earners getting money and ditch the minimum wage thing. Not a surprise seeing they probably didn't have Manchin's vote until they did.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/04/us/p ... -vote.html


That is interesting because the total price tag is still $1.9 T. Where would that money go?
All posts are just opinions.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:55 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Senate passed a bill along party lines. Not even a single vote from one of the 'moderate' Republicans. Not good if you want to tout you are 'uniting' the country.

To make matters worse, even Democrats are saying the bill is just too much money https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... -stimulus/, that could risk high inflation down the run.

This is not free money, and although many people do really need cash, ideally those hurting should receive the cash. And the government's job is to allow businesses to open so that people can get back to work, not depend on the government.


‘Not a single vote’ from the other side is not a rallying cry anymore after how the corporate tax cuts were rammed through with the same procedure in 2017.


Fair enough. Though I did not hear Trump or any on the GOP calling for unity back then.

Also the corporate Tax Cut never cost 1.9 Trillion to the tax payer, figure is something less than 300 Billion. https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/vo ... or-itself/
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:18 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Senate passed a bill along party lines. Not even a single vote from one of the 'moderate' Republicans. Not good if you want to tout you are 'uniting' the country..

There is nothing to unite with on the other side. One side is trying to solve problems and the other is giving a standing ovation to a violent, nuclear-level bigoted conspiracy peddling rabid flying monkey, who easily has the support of the majority of the party. No one is taking the GOP, or "unity" seriously until they decide to rejoin reality.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Also the corporate Tax Cut never cost 1.9 Trillion to the tax payer, figure is something less than 300 Billion. https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/vo ... or-itself/

It was largely pointless, artificially goosing GDP growth to meagre rates that were well out paced by the black man before him that was somehow derided as "worst recovery ever". Of course Republicans continued to peddle the lie that it would "pay for itself" which has been discredited so many times it could be called Kayleigh Mcenany. And it will likely cost trillions over the years, which won't be paid by the people that got the tax cut I assure you:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/ ... sis-430781
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apodino
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:27 pm

I don't get the GOP here. The relief package has broad bipartisan support among voters if you look at polling. It has support of 70 percent of all voters, including 37 percent of republicans. This is going to be a winning issue for the Democrats, and I don't get the GOP on this. Are they trying to lose?

Additionally, a 15 Dollar Minimum wage and the $2000 stimulus checks also poll with overwhelming support and the minimum wage passed on a Florida Ballot Referendum even in a state Trump overwhelmingly carried. The GOP seems to be against these too. I don't get it.

And yet, the Democrats don't run on these policy arguments but are trying to run on an Anti QAnon platform. Why don't they message more on policy? They will win most of the policy arguments.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:43 pm

apodino wrote:
I don't get the GOP here. The relief package has broad bipartisan support among voters if you look at polling. It has support of 70 percent of all voters, including 37 percent of republicans. This is going to be a winning issue for the Democrats, and I don't get the GOP on this. Are they trying to lose?

Additionally, a 15 Dollar Minimum wage and the $2000 stimulus checks also poll with overwhelming support and the minimum wage passed on a Florida Ballot Referendum even in a state Trump overwhelmingly carried. The GOP seems to be against these too. I don't get it.

And yet, the Democrats don't run on these policy arguments but are trying to run on an Anti QAnon platform. Why don't they message more on policy? They will win most of the policy arguments.



As you stated. They already won on policy. The issue is that too many in the GOP are in a cult where they can't break the reigns holding them and their views in check. QAnon, and the GOP behavior towards those representatives voting to impeach Trump are behaviors that must be exposed for what they are. Cultish, Anti-American, and Anti-Democratic. Only then can real policy discussions be waged.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:21 pm

apodino wrote:
I don't get the GOP here. The relief package has broad bipartisan support among voters if you look at polling. It has support of 70 percent of all voters, including 37 percent of republicans. This is going to be a winning issue for the Democrats, and I don't get the GOP on this. Are they trying to lose?

Additionally, a 15 Dollar Minimum wage and the $2000 stimulus checks also poll with overwhelming support and the minimum wage passed on a Florida Ballot Referendum even in a state Trump overwhelmingly carried. The GOP seems to be against these too. I don't get it.

And yet, the Democrats don't run on these policy arguments but are trying to run on an Anti QAnon platform. Why don't they message more on policy? They will win most of the policy arguments.


That's not the right way on deciding what sort of legislation should be approved and made by law by congress. When the Democrats rammed Obamacare, most of the public was opposed to it. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epoll ... -1130.html

Most Democrats believe that more immigration is great, that's why they believe in open borders, whilst only 34% believe immigration should increase https://news.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx

The right way to determine public support is elections. Polls are just polls.

As for this, sounds great, I am sure most will support help during this pandemic, but if you tell the person being interviewed if they agree their grand kids pay for all of this, most will say no.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
NIKV69
Topic Author
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:36 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
That is interesting because the total price tag is still $1.9 T. Where would that money go?


Well they have to work out the details next week so we will find out.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:37 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
There is nothing to unite with on the other side.


Don't say that, when it comes to screw the public and distribute the political contributions, both parties are very united.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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seb146
Posts: 23728
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:44 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
apodino wrote:
I don't get the GOP here. The relief package has broad bipartisan support among voters if you look at polling. It has support of 70 percent of all voters, including 37 percent of republicans. This is going to be a winning issue for the Democrats, and I don't get the GOP on this. Are they trying to lose?

Additionally, a 15 Dollar Minimum wage and the $2000 stimulus checks also poll with overwhelming support and the minimum wage passed on a Florida Ballot Referendum even in a state Trump overwhelmingly carried. The GOP seems to be against these too. I don't get it.

And yet, the Democrats don't run on these policy arguments but are trying to run on an Anti QAnon platform. Why don't they message more on policy? They will win most of the policy arguments.


That's not the right way on deciding what sort of legislation should be approved and made by law by congress. When the Democrats rammed Obamacare, most of the public was opposed to it. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epoll ... -1130.html

Most Democrats believe that more immigration is great, that's why they believe in open borders, whilst only 34% believe immigration should increase https://news.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx

The right way to determine public support is elections. Polls are just polls.

As for this, sounds great, I am sure most will support help during this pandemic, but if you tell the person being interviewed if they agree their grand kids pay for all of this, most will say no.


Depends on how the poll is worded, too. But, now that Americans have had time to live with ACA and Democratic immigration policies, they actually like them. Not the Q and MAGA and "family values" people, but the rest of us actually do like those things now. After the Republican backed economic collapse, those of us working understand that those at the top need to be taxed

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1Z9141

We also understand that giving us money to pay for things like rent and food will keep the homeless problem from growing, if only temporarily.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
flyguy89
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:18 pm

casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Bernie went across the aisle and agreed with Senator Ernst that immediate $15 minimum wage is counterproductive, and clarified the original spirit of its inclusion in the bill.

"It was never my intention to increase the minimum wage to $15 immediately and during the pandemic," Sanders said. "My legislation gradually increases the minimum wage to $15 an hour over a five-year period and that is what I believe we have got to do."

He added that was going to support Ernst's amendment "because nobody is talking about doubling the federal minimum wage during the pandemic."

The amendment ultimately passed the Senate by a voice vote, instead of the high-stakes roll call vote that budget watchers were waiting for Republicans to force.


https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/537 ... nimum-wage



The five year time frame is about what I would have expected. By then the current 11.50 inflation adjusted wage will be closer to 15 anyway. Need to read more on this bill.

Which is just hilarious. 5 years? If it's such a no-regret, easy win policy with absolutely no knock-on negative effects, why wait 5 years? I thought the moral imperative was that these people needed help now, so why not raise it to $15 immediately?

Anywho, it'll be interesting to see just how much of a hill this is the Democrats want to die on. It's unlikely the Senate Parliamentarian is going to decide minimum wage legislation qualifies under the Byrd Rule to be eligible for reconciliation. Of course the Senate President could overrule the Parliamentarian's decision and put it through reconciliation anyway (something that hasn't happened in 50 years...so much for the return of norms and civilized tradition at that point), but then Joe Manchin has already signaled his opposition to it, so seemingly even if they forced it through reconciliation they wouldn't have the votes to pass it.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:47 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Most Democrats believe that more immigration is great, that's why they believe in open borders

If you stopped lying you wouldn’t have any political convictions
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MaverickM11
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:42 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
There is nothing to unite with on the other side.


Don't say that, when it comes to screw the public and distribute the political contributions, both parties are very united.

Meh maybe twenty years ago but since then we’ve had a GOP President and family banned from running charities due to fraud, the NRA go nips up because of egregious fraud, and an evangelical movement synonymous with fraud. Hard to compete with that level of grifting for anyone...
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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casinterest
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:05 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Bernie went across the aisle and agreed with Senator Ernst that immediate $15 minimum wage is counterproductive, and clarified the original spirit of its inclusion in the bill.

"It was never my intention to increase the minimum wage to $15 immediately and during the pandemic," Sanders said. "My legislation gradually increases the minimum wage to $15 an hour over a five-year period and that is what I believe we have got to do."

He added that was going to support Ernst's amendment "because nobody is talking about doubling the federal minimum wage during the pandemic."

The amendment ultimately passed the Senate by a voice vote, instead of the high-stakes roll call vote that budget watchers were waiting for Republicans to force.


https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/537 ... nimum-wage



The five year time frame is about what I would have expected. By then the current 11.50 inflation adjusted wage will be closer to 15 anyway. Need to read more on this bill.

Which is just hilarious. 5 years? If it's such a no-regret, easy win policy with absolutely no knock-on negative effects, why wait 5 years? I thought the moral imperative was that these people needed help now, so why not raise it to $15 immediately?

Anywho, it'll be interesting to see just how much of a hill this is the Democrats want to die on. It's unlikely the Senate Parliamentarian is going to decide minimum wage legislation qualifies under the Byrd Rule to be eligible for reconciliation. Of course the Senate President could overrule the Parliamentarian's decision and put it through reconciliation anyway (something that hasn't happened in 50 years...so much for the return of norms and civilized tradition at that point), but then Joe Manchin has already signaled his opposition to it, so seemingly even if they forced it through reconciliation they wouldn't have the votes to pass it.



I always assumed the pay hike would be incremental. The push to 7.25 was done over 2 years. I think at the end of the day the GOP will add agree to it. If it is a poison pill for them to allow wages to rise and cause unemployment, then they would have a platform for 2024.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
flyguy89
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:07 pm

Looks like "The Squad" will be running an attack as blitz against Synema and Manchin as well as try and recruit primary challengers against them:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/squad-strate ... 57516.html
 
NIKV69
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:25 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Looks like "The Squad" will be running an attack as blitz against Synema and Manchin as well as try and recruit primary challengers against them:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/squad-strate ... 57516.html


Of course, once Manchin went on the record saying he wouldn't support the type of legislation they were floating the writing was on the wall. I love Sinema and both will be fine though it does show they don't feel it's a "fool's errand" that he won't be voting with them.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:28 am

Kyrsten Sinema joins Joe Manchin in siding against the $15 minimum wage in the Covid relief bill:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailym ... -bill.html
 
LOT767301ER
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:07 am

flyguy89 wrote:
Looks like "The Squad" will be running an attack as blitz against Synema and Manchin as well as try and recruit primary challengers against them:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/squad-strate ... 57516.html


These idiots should be flown to Venezuela on a one-way flight and then picked up a year later. They would be singing a different tune for the rest of their lives.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:17 am

LOT767301ER wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Looks like "The Squad" will be running an attack as blitz against Synema and Manchin as well as try and recruit primary challengers against them:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/squad-strate ... 57516.html


These idiots should be flown to Venezuela on a one-way flight and then picked up a year later. They would be singing a different tune for the rest of their lives.


That's odd, since leftist Dems typically espouse policies and values more typical with Scandinavian democratic socialism, which couldn't be in a more different universe than Venezuela. :sarcastic:
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
flyguy89
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:00 am

Aaron747 wrote:
LOT767301ER wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Looks like "The Squad" will be running an attack as blitz against Synema and Manchin as well as try and recruit primary challengers against them:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/squad-strate ... 57516.html


These idiots should be flown to Venezuela on a one-way flight and then picked up a year later. They would be singing a different tune for the rest of their lives.


That's odd, since leftist Dems typically espouse policies and values more typical with Scandinavian democratic socialism, which couldn't be in a more different universe than Venezuela. :sarcastic:

I do wince at the clichéd Venezuela references as well; however, I only wish leftist Dems actually favored Scandinavian social democracy (low corporate taxes, low regulation, no minimum wage, partially privatized social security, appreciation and recognition that a robust market economy is desirable and necessary to fund a decent social safety net, private healthcare operating alongside universal healthcare, etc). All too often however they seem to ignore the on-the-ground-political reality and cherry pick the worst parts or versions of what other "socialist" countries do, and their standard bearer is undoubtedly a cantankerous old (albeit somewhat endearing) communist.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:54 am

flyguy89 wrote:
I only wish leftist Dems actually favored Scandinavian social democracy (low corporate taxes, low regulation, no minimum wage, partially privatized social security, appreciation and recognition that a robust market economy is desirable and necessary to fund a decent social safety net, private healthcare operating alongside universal healthcare, etc).


Same. Their lack of focus on maintaining a healthy market economy to fund the things society needs keeps me in the center.
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NIKV69
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:09 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Kyrsten Sinema joins Joe Manchin in siding against the $15 minimum wage in the Covid relief bill:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailym ... -bill.html


Was bound to happen, I mean Biden seems to have to pander to AOC for some reason but it would be smoother and faster passage if he took it out.

BTW Sinema is a total cutie!!
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flyguy89
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:05 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Kyrsten Sinema joins Joe Manchin in siding against the $15 minimum wage in the Covid relief bill:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailym ... -bill.html


Was bound to happen, I mean Biden seems to have to pander to AOC for some reason but it would be smoother and faster passage if he took it out.

BTW Sinema is a total cutie!!

Well, Biden I think is fine taking it out doesn’t seem to expect that its inclusion will pass muster to qualify under the Byrd Rule for reconciliation. He seems to be expecting and prepared to sign the package into law and work on separate legislation regarding the minimum wage.
 
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:07 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Kyrsten Sinema joins Joe Manchin in siding against the $15 minimum wage in the Covid relief bill:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailym ... -bill.html


Was bound to happen, I mean Biden seems to have to pander to AOC for some reason but it would be smoother and faster passage if he took it out.

BTW Sinema is a total cutie!!

Well, Biden I think is fine taking it out doesn’t seem to expect that its inclusion will pass muster to qualify under the Byrd Rule for reconciliation. He seems to be expecting and prepared to sign the package into law and work on separate legislation regarding the minimum wage.


Don’t forget it’s his own caucus that is preventing him from ramming it through on reconciliation not the GOP. I think he abandoned trying to get it passed by bi-partisan means too fast he should have horse traded and talked a little more instead of being pressured. Get a bill that is good and can get 60 votes is better. Ditch the min wage thing, lower the price a little trim the fat and he should find 10 GOP votes.
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NIKV69
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:04 am

Well well we have a CNN town hall. That tells me it's a hail mary for the $15 hour min wage thing. Fluff questions and a waste of time. He would be better served having Sinema and Manchin to the WH. More delay. We don't need any more campaigning we need some compromise. Even if it's a bad word in DC.
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Aaron747
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:23 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Well well we have a CNN town hall. That tells me it's a hail mary for the $15 hour min wage thing. Fluff questions and a waste of time. He would be better served having Sinema and Manchin to the WH. More delay. We don't need any more campaigning we need some compromise. Even if it's a bad word in DC.


The bigger hail mary right now is the delay in school opening guidelines. Parents are tapped out, regardless of their politics. We have people at work who have negotiated to reduce to 30 hrs because they just can’t juggle attending workshops with their kids home all day.
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flyguy89
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:09 am

Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Well well we have a CNN town hall. That tells me it's a hail mary for the $15 hour min wage thing. Fluff questions and a waste of time. He would be better served having Sinema and Manchin to the WH. More delay. We don't need any more campaigning we need some compromise. Even if it's a bad word in DC.


The bigger hail mary right now is the delay in school opening guidelines. Parents are tapped out, regardless of their politics. We have people at work who have negotiated to reduce to 30 hrs because they just can’t juggle attending workshops with their kids home all day.

It’s pretty terrible. I understand it’s a complex issue, but we’ve spent $19 billion on school safety thus far (with at least $100 billion more on the way) and have had certain teachers unions elbow their way toward the front of the vaccination line only to turn around and say, even with teachers fully vaccinated, they won’t reopen fully. Is there any other Western nation having this kind of acrimony with getting teachers back in the classroom?
 
NIKV69
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:56 am

Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Well well we have a CNN town hall. That tells me it's a hail mary for the $15 hour min wage thing. Fluff questions and a waste of time. He would be better served having Sinema and Manchin to the WH. More delay. We don't need any more campaigning we need some compromise. Even if it's a bad word in DC.


The bigger hail mary right now is the delay in school opening guidelines. Parents are tapped out, regardless of their politics. We have people at work who have negotiated to reduce to 30 hrs because they just can’t juggle attending workshops with their kids home all day.


I have to be honest this whole school thing is confusing. I mean I was of the opinion early on that schools should have been the last places to consider opening. 30 ppl in a room. Kids not washing hands not social distancing etc. I thought the priority was stop the spread. Now the CDC says it's ok? I don't know what the unions agenda is and Biden's hesitance is just more confusing.
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Aaron747
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:57 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Well well we have a CNN town hall. That tells me it's a hail mary for the $15 hour min wage thing. Fluff questions and a waste of time. He would be better served having Sinema and Manchin to the WH. More delay. We don't need any more campaigning we need some compromise. Even if it's a bad word in DC.


The bigger hail mary right now is the delay in school opening guidelines. Parents are tapped out, regardless of their politics. We have people at work who have negotiated to reduce to 30 hrs because they just can’t juggle attending workshops with their kids home all day.


I have to be honest this whole school thing is confusing. I mean I was of the opinion early on that schools should have been the last places to consider opening. 30 ppl in a room. Kids not washing hands not social distancing etc. I thought the priority was stop the spread. Now the CDC says it's ok? I don't know what the unions agenda is and Biden's hesitance is just more confusing.


They're waiting for definitive data it seems. There are a few epidemiologists saying it's worth the risk because there hasn't been much spread by kids in other countries, but other researchers are worried about the higher transmission and symptom rates in kids with the B117 and South African strains, which have been confirmed in the US within the last month. Will they go home and infect parents etc? Hard to say.
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NIKV69
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:03 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

The bigger hail mary right now is the delay in school opening guidelines. Parents are tapped out, regardless of their politics. We have people at work who have negotiated to reduce to 30 hrs because they just can’t juggle attending workshops with their kids home all day.


I have to be honest this whole school thing is confusing. I mean I was of the opinion early on that schools should have been the last places to consider opening. 30 ppl in a room. Kids not washing hands not social distancing etc. I thought the priority was stop the spread. Now the CDC says it's ok? I don't know what the unions agenda is and Biden's hesitance is just more confusing.


They're waiting for definitive data it seems. There are a few epidemiologists saying it's worth the risk because there hasn't been much spread by kids in other countries, but other researchers are worried about the higher transmission and symptom rates in kids with the B117 and South African strains, which have been confirmed in the US within the last month. Will they go home and infect parents etc? Hard to say.


Again I thought the priority was to stop the spread and lower infections. If this was the case we shouldn't be talking opening schools for at least 2 to 3 months which brings us to the end of the school year. I know parents are strung out, day care etc but you have to be consistent. I am curious to see this play out.
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flyguy89
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:03 am

The senate parliamentarian has officially ruled that the $15/hour minimum wage increase does not qualify for reconciliation:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-senate-ref ... 25507.html
 
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:41 am

LNCS0930 wrote:

BLM IMO is worse. It was a bunch of young deranged whites burning things down over a false narrative that we have a socially injust society despite the fact we had a black President...yeah...sure..BS


Wow.

I've been lurking these forums since the late 90s / early 00s and this might take the cake for the most ignorant post I can recall. Maybe I'm misunderstand some strange brand of sarcasm or your trolling?
 
NIKV69
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:36 am

flyguy89 wrote:
The senate parliamentarian has officially ruled that the $15/hour minimum wage increase does not qualify for reconciliation:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-senate-ref ... 25507.html


Blessing in disguise for Biden, once he takes it out he can get it through. It didn't belong in there anyway and this way he doesn't have to deal with AOC directly.
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apodino
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:36 am

NIKV69 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
The senate parliamentarian has officially ruled that the $15/hour minimum wage increase does not qualify for reconciliation:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-senate-ref ... 25507.html


Blessing in disguise for Biden, once he takes it out he can get it through. It didn't belong in there anyway and this way he doesn't have to deal with AOC directly.


Progressive talk shows are beside themselves on this one and I am with them. You campaign on a $15 minimum wage and then you hide behind the parliamentarian as an excuse not to pass it. Here is the thing. It doesn't matter what the parliamentarian says, Kamala Harris is still President of the Senate and can override the parliamentarian. She is just choosing not to.

That being said, Manchin and Sinema were both opposed to the $15 minimum wage, but this measure at the grassroots level has overwhelming bipartisan support. This is not a good thing to oppose politically, especially if you are a democrat. So if Harris overrode the parliamentarian would this serve as a poison pill that would kill the bill? If you are Sinema or Manchin, good luck trying to vote against this one.

This goes back to exactly what I said before and that is the Establishment democrats are controlled by their corporate donors and really don't want to pass a minimum wage but they have to make it look like they do. This ruling gives Democrats the perfect cover to not get it done. They will pass this bill all day and night when they know it wont become law. But Biden doesn't want this bill to hit his desk because he would probably be forced to sign it, so he will see to it that it never reaches his desk. Same game over and over with the democrats. Win elections, then come up with excuses as to why you cant do the things you said you were going to do. And until the democratic base holds these people accountable the way the GOP base does with the GOP, this is how it will always be.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:16 am

apodino wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
The senate parliamentarian has officially ruled that the $15/hour minimum wage increase does not qualify for reconciliation:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-senate-ref ... 25507.html


Blessing in disguise for Biden, once he takes it out he can get it through. It didn't belong in there anyway and this way he doesn't have to deal with AOC directly.


Progressive talk shows are beside themselves on this one and I am with them. You campaign on a $15 minimum wage and then you hide behind the parliamentarian as an excuse not to pass it. Here is the thing. It doesn't matter what the parliamentarian says, Kamala Harris is still President of the Senate and can override the parliamentarian. She is just choosing not to.


It’s called thinking long-term. You override the parliamentarian and start forcing any bill you want through reconciliation, you establish a precedent for Republicans to do the same the next time they’re back in power...pick your poison. Harry Reid eliminated the filibuster for judicial nominees, and the Democrats have been paying for it since Republicans took back control.

apodino wrote:
That being said, Manchin and Sinema were both opposed to the $15 minimum wage, but this measure at the grassroots level has overwhelming bipartisan support. This is not a good thing to oppose politically, especially if you are a democrat.

That don’t make it good policy. Perhaps just 10 years ago you could have even said the same thing about support for a constitutional ban on same sex marriage. Thankfully that never manifested at the federal level despite its grassroots support.

Like I said earlier, there’s a reason a blanket national minimum wage as high as $15/hour is almost unheard of in the developed world...even the social democracies American progressives constantly point to as examples.

Take what you can get and scale back to an increase to $10-11/hour. If you believe raising the minimum wage is that much of an imperative, some increase is better than none.

apodino wrote:
So if Harris overrode the parliamentarian would this serve as a poison pill that would kill the bill? If you are Sinema or Manchin, good luck trying to vote against this one.

I mean they already announced that they would even before the parliamentarian made her ruling, so...
 
NIKV69
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:45 am

flyguy89 wrote:

It’s called thinking long-term. You override the parliamentarian and start forcing any bill you want through reconciliation, you establish a precedent for Republicans to do the same the next time they’re back in power...pick your poison. Harry Reid eliminated the filibuster for judicial nominees, and the Democrats have been paying for it since Republicans took back control.

..


I don't get why he we listen to progressive pundits anyway. They are hardliners just as the pundits on FOX they loathe. As I have said We should be happy we have leaders like Manchin and Sinema.

Minimum wage doesn't belong in this bill and all it is doing is delaying help to people. Have that talk later.
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:24 am

flyguy89 wrote:
You override the parliamentarian and start forcing any bill you want through reconciliation, you establish a precedent for Republicans to do the same the next time they’re back in power.


Makes the curiously myopic assumption that that is not already an issue. The GOP have not been cooperative with Americans at the Senate level since the mid 1990s. If anything, they are the ones finding out now about what the mistakes they have been making along those lines. Simply put, they do not have the Capital to be requesting mercy here.


flyguy89 wrote:
Take what you can get and scale back to an increase to $10-11/hour. If you believe raising the minimum wage is that much of an imperative, some increase is better than none.


False. It is well known that the Feds have a poor history of dealing with this issue, even when controlled by Democrats. Whatever is decided will be the law for at least a decade, and likely phased in at a rate far too comfortable for large and small business —vs the labor pool. You did not know this, but that is far below the rate of standard inflation. The compromise has already been made, as by the time it is fully implemented, it will likely be already obsoleted. "Compromising" further appeals only to people who are functionally illiterate in these matters. While endangering re-election prospects for Senators on the relevant side of this issue.

It would literally more astute to simply drop it, and allow it to be brought up later than to half-arse it in that manner.

Or...


NIKV69 wrote:

Minimum wage doesn't belong in this bill and all it is doing is delaying help to people. Have that talk later.


Simply table the issue, blame the GOP, and have it taken up at the State level. Nobody cares what right-wingers think about minimum wage anyway, but they are useful to blame for a lock-up. In the meantime, the more responsible states along the Coasts have already taken up the issue themselves.

If the Feds are sincerely interested in this becoming the law of the land, tie it to a certain percentage of Federal Funding. Most of the States opposed to this desperately need that money anyway.
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flyguy89
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Re: Biden coronavirus relief package

Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:13 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
You override the parliamentarian and start forcing any bill you want through reconciliation, you establish a precedent for Republicans to do the same the next time they’re back in power.


Makes the curiously myopic assumption that that is not already an issue. The GOP have not been cooperative with Americans at the Senate level since the mid 1990s. If anything, they are the ones finding out now about what the mistakes they have been making along those lines. Simply put, they do not have the Capital to be requesting mercy here.

Not about mercy. Step outside of the partisan mindset. It was actually these specific senate rules that prevented Republicans from fully repealing Obamacare.


DarkSnowyNight wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Take what you can get and scale back to an increase to $10-11/hour. If you believe raising the minimum wage is that much of an imperative, some increase is better than none.


False. It is well known that the Feds have a poor history of dealing with this issue, even when controlled by Democrats. Whatever is decided will be the law for at least a decade, and likely phased in at a rate far too comfortable for large and small business —vs the labor pool. You did not know this, but that is far below the rate of standard inflation. The compromise has already been made, as by the time it is fully implemented, it will likely be already obsoleted. "Compromising" further appeals only to people who are functionally illiterate in these matters. While endangering re-election prospects for Senators on the relevant side of this issue.

It would literally more astute to simply drop it, and allow it to be brought up later than to half-arse it in that manner.

Or...

Then it’s obviously not that imperative of an issue.


DarkSnowyNight wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

Minimum wage doesn't belong in this bill and all it is doing is delaying help to people. Have that talk later.


Simply table the issue, blame the GOP, and have it taken up at the State level. Nobody cares what right-wingers think about minimum wage anyway, but they are useful to blame for a lock-up. In the meantime, the more responsible states along the Coasts have already taken up the issue themselves.

If the Feds are sincerely interested in this becoming the law of the land, tie it to a certain percentage of Federal Funding. Most of the States opposed to this desperately need that money anyway.

I’m all for leaving it at the state level. Setting the minimum wage that high at the federal level was always bad policy. Makes much more sense for states to raise their minimum wage in accordance with what makes sense locally in a country as economically diverse as the US.

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