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lugie
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:29 am

stratosphere wrote:
Well FB just removed the walk away campaign group so tell me what was wrong with that? Just people who disagreed with the Democrats that they were a part of and switched sides. So now that is a threat too? This is a slippery slope we are on now. Liberals and progressives generally always tried to stifle conservative speech. This proves it. We should all be scared of this. This is no better than the communists and what China does. You don't like Trump I get it I don't much like him either. But to shut down dissenting opinion because you don't like it is a real problem.


Thanks to Facebook's "related interests" algorithm that creates echo chambers left and right, the "Walk away" group was most likely a direct pipeline toward more extreme pro-Trump-, QAnon-, and eventually Treasonous-White-Mob-Storming-the-Capitol-Organizer-groups.

In the end, Facebook and Twitter can ban whoever they want and I guess bad luck that most educated people who are able to build these tech firms tend to be rather on the left.

Or in other words, think of Facebook/Twitter as a Christian bakery and of Trump/QAnon/Walk away groups as a gay couple trying to buy a wedding cake.
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c933103
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:54 am

Aaron747 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
moo wrote:

If you have to ask that question, then its not worth answering you.

And I think that's part of the problem, while companies like Twitter have become multinational compabies, they're still intrinsically America, and think millions in Xinjiang getting cultural genocided is less of a problem than some disorder in their own country, with those who pronote the forner idea still being allowed in the platform.


Again, legally that isn’t what’s happening. They shut down Trump’s personal account and those of very active malingerers in the alt-right. The official POTUS account is open, in accordance with their policy regarding official accounts globally. They basically do not moderate official government accounts because they think the world should see what their official statements are.

Legally what happened is not important since Twitter's action are undoubtedly legal according to my understanding. However the question is morality of their decision and what is their value position.
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DTVG
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:18 pm

Probably just big tech companies trying to please the Democrats. Highly probable that congress will crack down on them...
 
RJMAZ
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:21 pm

The Chinese would be impressed by how swift the censorship happened across so many platforms. Deleting accounts. Hiding search results. Banning apps from app stores.

The tech giants have shown they easily have the power to only show the public what they want them to see. They can then effectively choose who wins future elections. They can hide positive information and amplifying negative information about one candidate and do the opposite to the other.

I just checked every founder or largest owner of Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter etc. After the first 10 people were all big democrat donors I came to the conclusion that the USA is doomed. We wouldn't even know the truth.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:34 pm

RJMAZ wrote:
The Chinese would be impressed by how swift the censorship happened across so many platforms. Deleting accounts. Hiding search results. Banning apps from app stores.

The tech giants have shown they easily have the power to only show the public what they want them to see. They can then effectively choose who wins future elections. They can hide positive information and amplifying negative information about one candidate and do the opposite to the other.

I just checked every founder or largest owner of Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter etc. After the first 10 people were all big democrat donors I came to the conclusion that the USA is doomed. We wouldn't even know the truth.


Doesn’t that suggest people in red states should emphasize engineering and CS education if they want to be able to compete? That’s how these giants got where they are.
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emperortk
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:41 pm

lugie wrote:
Or in other words, think of Facebook/Twitter as a Christian bakery and of Trump/QAnon/Walk away groups as a gay couple trying to buy a wedding cake.


This analogy would only make sense if gay couples were using a Christian bakery to incite riots and plan and coordinate seditious activities.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:48 pm

RJMAZ wrote:
The Chinese would be impressed by how swift the censorship


You may want to look up what censorship means.

I just checked every founder or largest owner of Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter etc. After the first 10 people were all big democrat donors.


Seems to me you overlooked something..

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/n ... r-investor

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scbriml
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:21 pm

aerosreenivas wrote:
Now that Trump has been banned from Twitter, will that change anything with regards to the thinking of his supporters?

Meaning, will they accept the 'Election Verdict' and look forward to Biden's governance for the next four years?


They will never accept it, because they believe all the lies and misinformation they've been fed by the GOP and extreme right-wing media.

If you don't believe it, just take a casual trip into the murky realms of Breitbart, OANN & The Gateway Pundit comment sections or Parler. :crazy:
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RJMAZ
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:24 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Doesn’t that suggest people in red states should emphasize engineering and CS education if they want to be able to compete? That’s how these giants got where they are.

You raise a good point. The majority of members here are engineers, pilots or white collar workers. The vast majority of these jobs are in big cities and nearly every big citiy in the US are democrat. Trump has been very combative with Europe so European members are also democrat supporters.

Some forums allow polls. I would be certain 95+% of this forum would be democrat.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:27 pm

luckyone wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
Newark727 wrote:

This is not a rights issue - the first amendment explicitly does not apply to privately owned platforms like FB. You agreed to an end-user license agreement when you signed up that almost assuredly gives them the power to do this. Is that a crappy way to have our national conversation? Certainly. But we probably should have thought of that before we made these some of the most powerful private companies on earth.


You are correct private companies can do what they want. .They also do not need 230 protection either. When all media platforms available take one side and try to bury any other opinions that is a major problem in my book .

The irony in your protest is that without 230 protection, social media platforms would be MORE scrupulous about whom and what they permit to be posted.


Exactly. :checkmark:

These idiots keep wishing for stuff without realising what the consequences are - they'll lose all the comment sections where they can currently vent their collective spleen almost without consequence. I understand Parler is hosted on Amazon's AWS - that would get shut down pretty quickly if Amazon is suddenly exposed to being held liable for the comments there.
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RJMAZ
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:29 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
You may want to look up what censorship means.

"Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information, on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or "inconvenient." Censorship can be conducted by governments, private institutions, and other controlling bodies."

That is exactly what China does and what is happening in the US now. Both try to eliminate the power to protest or eliminate people who talk against the establishment.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:29 pm

RJMAZ wrote:
Some forums allow polls. I would be certain 95+% of this forum would be democrat.


I'd be amazed if it was that dominant. If it is, the 5% republican part posts a disproportionate volume of messages!
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:31 pm

RJMAZ wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Doesn’t that suggest people in red states should emphasize engineering and CS education if they want to be able to compete? That’s how these giants got where they are.

You raise a good point. The majority of members here are engineers, pilots or white collar workers. The vast majority of these jobs are in big cities and nearly every big citiy in the US are democrat. Trump has been very combative with Europe so European members are also democrat supporters.

Some forums allow polls. I would be certain 95+% of this forum would be democrat.


This is a 'guy' oriented forum, women are generally not welcome (or if they are brave enough, comment on the hairy armpit forum, a title of which should have been banned). I am suspecting the number of center right members is larger than center left. Most of the respected posters are data driven. And PS, pilots, police, and military tend right.
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Francoflier
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:34 pm

RJMAZ wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Doesn’t that suggest people in red states should emphasize engineering and CS education if they want to be able to compete? That’s how these giants got where they are.

You raise a good point. The majority of members here are engineers, pilots or white collar workers. The vast majority of these jobs are in big cities and nearly every big citiy in the US are democrat. Trump has been very combative with Europe so European members are also democrat supporters.

Some forums allow polls. I would be certain 95+% of this forum would be democrat.


So what you're saying is that people with more education, who tend to concentrate in large urban centers, tend to not vote for Trump? Or are you saying the cities themselves turn people democrat like fluoride in the water turns the frogs gay?

Many of these outlets and users being banned used these platforms to incite violence. Terrorist groups have been banned from Twitter and Facebook for a while now. Is that censorship as well?
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scbriml
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:35 pm

RJMAZ wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
You may want to look up what censorship means.

"Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information, on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or "inconvenient." Censorship can be conducted by governments, private institutions, and other controlling bodies."

That is exactly what China does and what is happening in the US now. Both try to eliminate the power to protest or eliminate people who talk against the establishment.


It's not censorship if you agree to terms and conditions when you open your Twitter (or other) social media account, then find your posts deleted or flagged when you break those Ts&Cs. Nobody is having their posts deleted for saying "Trump's the greatest and the democrats are all communist trash."

Nobody is eliminating the right to peacefully protest either.

All this right-wing butt-hurt is just because their guy lost an election and they can't handle it because they really believe all the misinformation and lies they've been fed.
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:43 pm

It is the simple difference between posting "I believe the election was stolen" and "The election was stolen".
 
M564038
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:53 pm

A political party just attempted a coup, much of it coordinated through social media, and people think that the private companies behind these social media is out of line because they don't want to be a part of it?

Nothing surprises me about americans anymmore.
 
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c933103
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:34 pm

scbriml wrote:
RJMAZ wrote:
Some forums allow polls. I would be certain 95+% of this forum would be democrat.


I'd be amazed if it was that dominant. If it is, the 5% republican part posts a disproportionate volume of messages!

A while ago some published a political compass thread. The result I gathered in that thread indicate the amount of left-leaning individuals in that thread indeed vastly outnumbered the amount of right-leaning individual.
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scbriml
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:42 pm

c933103 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
RJMAZ wrote:
Some forums allow polls. I would be certain 95+% of this forum would be democrat.


I'd be amazed if it was that dominant. If it is, the 5% republican part posts a disproportionate volume of messages!

A while ago some published a political compass thread. The result I gathered in that thread indicate the amount of left-leaning individuals in that thread indeed vastly outnumbered the amount of right-leaning individual.


I suspect you weren't here for the whole of the Obama era?
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RJMAZ
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:33 pm

Francoflier wrote:
So what you're saying is that people with more education, who tend to concentrate in large urban centers, tend to not vote for Trump? Or are you saying the cities themselves turn people democrat like fluoride in the water turns the frogs gay??
It is quite simple. The democrats have policies that look after the cities when it comes to public services and funding. Rural areas need additional funding per head of population due to the infrastructure being more spread out. The republicans give that funding to give the rural areas equal standard of services.

The whole red state versus blue is not what people think. Likewise conservative, right wing left wing is again incorrect. All the data points to it being city versus rural. The major city in every red state is actually democrat majority. Likewise the blue states they often have huge rural areas of republican majority.

Francoflier wrote:
Many of these outlets and users being banned used these platforms to incite violence. Terrorist groups have been banned from Twitter and Facebook for a while now. Is that censorship as well?
The black lives matter protests had much more violence and it went on for days. They did nothing to stop people organsing and encouraging violence on their platforms. With Trump being silenced it has nothing to do with stopping violence.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:51 pm

This is going to continue to stir tensions, unfortunately. These past months aren't good, and what's in store with the new Democrat controlled Washington is potentially going to make things worse, based on Biden/Harris recent statements.

We conservatives support private enterprise and the government not getting involved. End of story. Twitter, FB etc all have the right to do this.

Nonetheless, pressure from leftists groups into doing this, is what have led to this. The Democrats controlling the senate and potentially sanctioning these apps if they don't do as they say, had a huge impact.

Cancel culture,attack on 1st amendment. This is not new. Censoring a sitting elected president, that's only the start of what's to come. This as I said won't help in the long term, its only going to cause more tensions, resentment and many of those loonies violent terrorists from Jan 6th are getting what they want, if only Pelosi gets away with impeaching Trump, that would make it lot harder to 'heal and unite'. Its all adding up folks. Here is hoping things don't get worse in this country, than what they already are.
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scbriml
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:02 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
This is going to continue to stir tensions, unfortunately. These past months aren't good, and what's in store with the new Democrat controlled Washington is potentially going to make things worse, based on Biden/Harris recent statements.

We conservatives support private enterprise and the government not getting involved. End of story. Twitter, FB etc all have the right to do this.

Nonetheless, pressure from leftists groups into doing this, is what have led to this. The Democrats controlling the senate and potentially sanctioning these apps if they don't do as they say, had a huge impact.

Cancel culture,attack on 1st amendment. This is not new. Censoring a sitting elected president, that's only the start of what's to come. This as I said won't help in the long term, its only going to cause more tensions, resentment and many of those loonies violent terrorists from Jan 6th are getting what they want, if only Pelosi gets away with impeaching Trump, that would make it lot harder to 'heal and unite'. Its all adding up folks. Here is hoping things don't get worse in this country, than what they already are.


You state Twitter, etc. have the right to do this, then you complain about attacks on 1st Amendment rights (hint: it isn't) and "censoring" a sitting president (they haven't done that, the official presidential twitter account is still active). :confused:
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Newark727
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:02 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
This is going to continue to stir tensions, unfortunately. These past months aren't good, and what's in store with the new Democrat controlled Washington is potentially going to make things worse, based on Biden/Harris recent statements.

We conservatives support private enterprise and the government not getting involved. End of story. Twitter, FB etc all have the right to do this.

Nonetheless, pressure from leftists groups into doing this, is what have led to this. The Democrats controlling the senate and potentially sanctioning these apps if they don't do as they say, had a huge impact.

Cancel culture,attack on 1st amendment. This is not new. Censoring a sitting elected president, that's only the start of what's to come. This as I said won't help in the long term, its only going to cause more tensions, resentment and many of those loonies violent terrorists from Jan 6th are getting what they want, if only Pelosi gets away with impeaching Trump, that would make it lot harder to 'heal and unite'. Its all adding up folks. Here is hoping things don't get worse in this country, than what they already are.


This is not "cancel culture," this is the fallout from an attempted coup. A few social media accounts getting deleted is remarkably mild repercussions, all things considered.
 
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seb146
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:38 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
This is going to continue to stir tensions, unfortunately. These past months aren't good, and what's in store with the new Democrat controlled Washington is potentially going to make things worse, based on Biden/Harris recent statements.

We conservatives support private enterprise and the government not getting involved. End of story. Twitter, FB etc all have the right to do this.

Nonetheless, pressure from leftists groups into doing this, is what have led to this. The Democrats controlling the senate and potentially sanctioning these apps if they don't do as they say, had a huge impact.

Cancel culture,attack on 1st amendment. This is not new. Censoring a sitting elected president, that's only the start of what's to come. This as I said won't help in the long term, its only going to cause more tensions, resentment and many of those loonies violent terrorists from Jan 6th are getting what they want, if only Pelosi gets away with impeaching Trump, that would make it lot harder to 'heal and unite'. Its all adding up folks. Here is hoping things don't get worse in this country, than what they already are.


What "Democratic" government agency force Land O Lakes, Aunt Jemima, Ben's Rice, Washington Football Team, Cleveland Baseball Team to all change their names and logos? Or, could it be these companies decided their racism should end because they see how offensive they are, thanks to the MAGA leader and followers?

It will continue to cause tensions. No question. Right wing white evangelicals want to continue to be as racist and violent as they please. Holding them to account will make them feel attacked and cencored. They can still be as racist as they want. But, from now on, they will be called out for it. As they should be!
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luckyone
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:42 pm

This issue is one of those that is best characterized by the movie "Inside Out:" it's a complicated issue colored by many emotions and concerns, and requires a lot of context.

- We are a nation whose cultural identity and politics are colored by the residual trauma of 9/11
- We just watched five people die when thousands of people stormed the US Capitol on a day when we were supposed to uphold our Constitution. Had the tables been turned and the outgoing president had a "D" by their name, Republicans would have been unanimously apoplectic, and rightfully so. Few people with any intelligence would suggest otherwise. More people died because of this one day than died during the entire month of CHOP/CHAZ in Seattle.
- President Trump spent months whipping up public sentiment about said election, and his claims were never substantiated or supported in court. And they never were going to be. He was certainly aware of this and it was obvious by the fact that he had a band of Amateur Elites doing the filings.
- President Trump continued to rehash his rhetoric after people had died. He just could not do it. At the very least he was passively complicit.
- People are trying to equivocate storming the Capitol during the certification of an election with protests. Did terrible things and illegal things happen at those protests? Absolutely. That still does not equivocate them.

- He was using Twitter to make most of these claims
- Twitter is a private business that, like most private business, is supported and regulated by government regulations and protections.
- Why shouldn't Twitter or any other private business be permitted to uniformly hold their users to their terms and standards, like any other business? Why should the POTUS get a pass?
- POTUS wasn't the only one Twitter suspended this week.
- Twitter suspends hundreds of thousands of accounts every year.
- Twitter should have suspended accounts of people who were engaged in violence in the summer of 2020 if they didn't.
- Please show where Twitter or other social media platforms were used to SPECIFICALLY coordinate acts of violence. Not the protests, specific and coordinated acts of violence. Legally there is a difference. Why does it only bother people when "the right thing," is done when it offends them?
- People are correct to be mindful of how far this could go. As I already mentioned, we are a nation whose character and politics have been shaped by the trauma of 9/11. We watched people who supported President Bush and other conservative leaders defend actions that violated and restricted freedoms and privileges we as Americans had enjoyed for decades. We are likely going to have that debate.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:43 pm

M564038 wrote:
A political party just attempted a coup,

Nothing surprises me about americans anymmore.


It wasn't the party, jeez can we stop the hyperbole?
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FGITD
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:48 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
M564038 wrote:
A political party just attempted a coup,

Nothing surprises me about americans anymmore.


It wasn't the party, jeez can we stop the hyperbole?


Of course! It was just all fanatical members of the party, including some elected members of said party, incited by the president who was nominated by that party, and excuses are being made by high ranking members of the party

But no no, Republicans have nothing to do with it
 
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Tugger
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:09 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
M564038 wrote:
A political party just attempted a coup,

Nothing surprises me about americans anymmore.


It wasn't the party, jeez can we stop the hyperbole?

But it WAS the "Republican party". Who was the headliner? Who were those people here to see and represent? What party is that person the leader of (what party did all the speakers belong to/represent)?

Just as you stick BLM and others to the Dems, this gets stuck to the Republicans.

Tugg
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AirframeAS
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:34 pm

RJMAZ wrote:
The Chinese would be impressed by how swift the censorship happened across so many platforms. Deleting accounts. Hiding search results. Banning apps from app stores.


The problem with your logic is that FB, Twitter, Apple, Google, etc etc are private companies thus NOT government agencies. I doubt that the Chinese would be impressed, at all.

The point I am trying to make is that it is not the U.S. Government forcing the aforementioned companies above to delete accounts and use censorship. It is the private companies themselves doing it on their own WITHOUT government asking them to. The U.S. Government isn't forcing the tech companies to do anything in this situation. Now, how this differs from China, their government forces companies to delete stuff or face stiff, strict repercussions.
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M564038
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:55 pm

There is nothing hyperbole about it.
I know you don’t understand the gravity of this situation, but it is the most significant crisis in american politics since the civil war.
This is also not about 2 equal sides fighting democratically for power, this is about 1 side going rogue, criminal, trying to overthrow democracy and fair elections.
The future of american politics need to include something close to the de-nazification process in germany after the war, except the fanatical brainwash from the right wing in USA had been systematically going on since watergate and thus has inflicted the target group even more than the mere 12 years Hitler had in power.

I am sorry. But this situation is in that order of magnitude of grave.
Trump is a Hitler-type leader, albeit a failed one.

NIKV69 wrote:
M564038 wrote:
A political party just attempted a coup,

Nothing surprises me about americans anymmore.


It wasn't the party, jeez can we stop the hyperbole?
Last edited by M564038 on Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
GDB
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Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:57 pm

AirframeAS wrote:
RJMAZ wrote:
The Chinese would be impressed by how swift the censorship happened across so many platforms. Deleting accounts. Hiding search results. Banning apps from app stores.


The problem with your logic is that FB, Twitter, Apple, Google, etc etc are private companies thus NOT government agencies. I doubt that the Chinese would be impressed, at all.

The point I am trying to make is that it is not the U.S. Government forcing the aforementioned companies above to delete accounts and use censorship. It is the private companies themselves doing it on their own WITHOUT government asking them to. The U.S. Government isn't forcing the tech companies to do anything in this situation. Now, how this differs from China, their government forces companies to delete stuff or face stiff, strict repercussions.


You and others have explained accurately, truthfully, the position of social media companies and their rights, for months now, under the T & C's that users agree too, yet still a bunch of what can best be called male 'Karens' on here, (Chads isn't it?), won't accept this even though a cursory check on said platforms would confirm this.
So they are either dense, being dishonest, or just so wrapped up in their bubble of ignorance, resentment and often flat out racial animus they've gone a bit around the twist.

Social media was used by Trump and his minions to encourage a mob to attack the US electoral process, many with clear and murderous intent, likely Twitter being the last one standing to finally deny this criminal his platform likely was due them realizing better they do it, or under legitimate security concerns it being done for them.
They still may yet have plenty to answer for in the investigations/hearing that will follow, it took an attempted coup to make Tech Bros finally take some responsibility.

Go ahead, keep on trying to downplay the GOP's deep complicity too, hence why some are belatedly shitting themselves, it was not any BLM or protest against excessive and often lethal policing, who had T shirts extolling the Holocaust.
That's your team Trumpists, the same ones he praised (and who murdered someone) in 2017, suck it up.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9904
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:10 pm

GDB wrote:
AirframeAS wrote:
RJMAZ wrote:
The Chinese would be impressed by how swift the censorship happened across so many platforms. Deleting accounts. Hiding search results. Banning apps from app stores.


The problem with your logic is that FB, Twitter, Apple, Google, etc etc are private companies thus NOT government agencies. I doubt that the Chinese would be impressed, at all.

The point I am trying to make is that it is not the U.S. Government forcing the aforementioned companies above to delete accounts and use censorship. It is the private companies themselves doing it on their own WITHOUT government asking them to. The U.S. Government isn't forcing the tech companies to do anything in this situation. Now, how this differs from China, their government forces companies to delete stuff or face stiff, strict repercussions.


You and others have explained accurately, truthfully, the position of social media companies and their rights, for months now, under the T & C's that users agree too, yet still a bunch of what can best be called male 'Karens' on here, (Chads isn't it?), won't accept this even though a cursory check on said platforms would confirm this.
So they are either dense, being dishonest, or just so wrapped up in their bubble of ignorance, resentment and often flat out racial animus they've gone a bit around the twist.


First of all, I am not ignorant. Lets not go there. I was trying to point out the differences on how China would act vs. how the U.S. would act. Keep in mind, China does not have a first amendment while the U.S. does. You are comparing apples to oranges. China censors because, well, they can.

The reason why it took until yesterday for platforms in the U.S. to take action on Trump because of what happened on January 6th, with worries of more violence happening come January 17th-22nd.

Now, let's put this in aviation terms: The FAR's were written not just because they feared something would happen, they were written in "blood", meaning something happened to make it a rule/law or to make a change. This is what we are seeing here with the insurrection. T&C's are getting a huge revamp right now by social media platforms in the U.S. as we speak. (I suspect on Monday, we will be seeing new T&C's on all platforms) With the first amendment here in the U.S. prevalent, just because someone says they are going to do something does not always mean that they are going to go and actually do it.

Just remember, sir, that the First Amendment gives you the right to free speech against the government, not against private companies. Private companies do what they deem best for the sake of the company.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
cpd
Posts: 6788
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:11 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
M564038 wrote:
A political party just attempted a coup,

Nothing surprises me about americans anymmore.


It wasn't the party, jeez can we stop the hyperbole?


When people from the party were there and part of this rioting/operation then it is the party.

They cannot run away from it. The Republican Party is up to its ears in this. We are only hearing dissenting voices now because the riots are politically awkward. Otherwise they would keep supporting the Trump line that the election was stolen if it looked like being politically expedient.
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 6160
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:15 pm

I miss his Twitter tirades. They offered an insight into his mental state.

And I think he should have been sanctioned earlier and more often. Twitter failed to live up to its responsibility. At which point would Twitter have suspended the user account of a certain homunculus from Braunau, Austria?

I'm for unfettered freedom. But there is no freedom to harm society, or any individual.
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
luckyone
Posts: 4012
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:18 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
I miss his Twitter tirades. They offered an insight into his mental state.

And I think he should have been sanctioned earlier and more often. Twitter failed to live up to its responsibility. At which point would Twitter have suspended the user account of a certain homunculus from Braunau, Austria?

I'm for unfettered freedom. But there is no freedom to harm society, or any individual.

The unfortunate reality is Twitter is going to be criticized no matter what they do. Also unfortunate is the reality that sometimes enough people only listen after something terrible has happened. There will be some people who complain about Twitter's decisions, but enough people will say "yeah, we can't have this happen again. Enough is enough."
Last edited by luckyone on Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 11304
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:18 pm

AirframeAS wrote:
RJMAZ wrote:
The Chinese would be impressed by how swift the censorship happened across so many platforms. Deleting accounts. Hiding search results. Banning apps from app stores.


The problem with your logic is that FB, Twitter, Apple, Google, etc etc are private companies thus NOT government agencies. I doubt that the Chinese would be impressed, at all.

The point I am trying to make is that it is not the U.S. Government forcing the aforementioned companies above to delete accounts and use censorship. It is the private companies themselves doing it on their own WITHOUT government asking them to. The U.S. Government isn't forcing the tech companies to do anything in this situation. Now, how this differs from China, their government forces companies to delete stuff or face stiff, strict repercussions.

And of course importantly, and what would NOT impress the Chinese at all, there was no required reporting to the government of the names and identities of those people that violated the policies (though I am sure the USG is submitting subpoenas for certain people/accounts if needed).

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
User avatar
Thunderboltdrgn
Posts: 2252
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:39 pm

Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:19 pm

It's not only on Twitter Trump has been banned but also on several other social media platforms including Instagram, Spotify, Reddit, Youtube, Shopify.....

https://www.axios.com/platforms-social- ... 920f1.html
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 11304
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:22 pm

For Twitter I am sure it was a hard decision as Trump made Twitter really relevant and important. They have forever been challenged on how to make money. Trump helped them and they have had to cut that off.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
User avatar
Thunderboltdrgn
Posts: 2252
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:39 pm

Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:24 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
M564038 wrote:
A political party just attempted a coup,

Nothing surprises me about americans anymmore.


It wasn't the party, jeez can we stop the hyperbole?


Oh but it was. Both The National Republican Senatorial Committee (NRSC) & Georgia Republican Party. It can't get more part then that.

I assume you have not read the post below (where you fill multiple sources) or just have chosen to turn a blind eye to it.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1456421&start=550#p22594545
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
GDB
Posts: 14333
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:31 pm

AirframeAS wrote:
GDB wrote:
AirframeAS wrote:

The problem with your logic is that FB, Twitter, Apple, Google, etc etc are private companies thus NOT government agencies. I doubt that the Chinese would be impressed, at all.

The point I am trying to make is that it is not the U.S. Government forcing the aforementioned companies above to delete accounts and use censorship. It is the private companies themselves doing it on their own WITHOUT government asking them to. The U.S. Government isn't forcing the tech companies to do anything in this situation. Now, how this differs from China, their government forces companies to delete stuff or face stiff, strict repercussions.


You and others have explained accurately, truthfully, the position of social media companies and their rights, for months now, under the T & C's that users agree too, yet still a bunch of what can best be called male 'Karens' on here, (Chads isn't it?), won't accept this even though a cursory check on said platforms would confirm this.
So they are either dense, being dishonest, or just so wrapped up in their bubble of ignorance, resentment and often flat out racial animus they've gone a bit around the twist.


First of all, I am not ignorant. Lets not go there. I was trying to point out the differences on how China would act vs. how the U.S. would act. Keep in mind, China does not have a first amendment while the U.S. does. You are comparing apples to oranges. China censors because, well, they can.

The reason why it took until yesterday for platforms in the U.S. to take action on Trump because of what happened on January 6th, with worries of more violence happening come January 17th-22nd.

Now, let's put this in aviation terms: The FAR's were written not just because they feared something would happen, they were written in "blood", meaning something happened to make it a rule/law or to make a change. This is what we are seeing here with the insurrection. T&C's are getting a huge revamp right now by social media platforms in the U.S. as we speak. (I suspect on Monday, we will be seeing new T&C's on all platforms) With the first amendment here in the U.S. prevalent, just because someone says they are going to do something does not always mean that they are going to go and actually do it.

Just remember, sir, that the First Amendment gives you the right to free speech against the government, not against private companies. Private companies do what they deem best for the sake of the company.


Maybe I did not write it clearly, I was actually agreeing and praising your response, for accurately pointing out the right for social media companies, being companies, to deny service for breaking T & C's.
I am perplexed by those who keep denying this fact, I know it's true and I don't even use Twitter, Facebook etc.
It is true that it would be a major step for a US Government to order these platforms to suspend people, however in the light of this attempted coup if there was any justification, this it it. And the companies, Twitter being last, I think know this.

And if the mob were on the other political side, you know the US Government would have done it and before now.
Though the BLM and related protests have been about demanding the police uphold the law, that voting rights be preserved and with no flags from the the last bunch to try and otherthrow the US government.
The world has noticed this too, brute force and well prepared in the summer, with what happened this week.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9904
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:34 pm

GDB wrote:

Maybe I did not write it clearly, I was actually agreeing and praising your response, for accurately pointing out the right for social media companies, being companies, to deny service for breaking T & C's.
I am perplexed by those who keep denying this fact, I know it's true and I don't even use Twitter. Facebook etc.
It is true that it would be a major step for a US Government to order these platforms to suspend people, however in the light of this attempted coup if there was any justification, this it it. And the companies, Twitter being last, I think know this.

And if the mob were on the other political side, you know the US Government would have done it and before now.
Though the BLM and related protests have been about demanding the police uphold the law, that voting rights be preserved and with no flags from the the last bunch to try and otherthrow the US government.
The world has noticed this too, brute force and well prepared in the summer, with what happened this week.


I totally misunderstood. My apologies, GDB.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3405
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:07 pm

The cult of personality some of these people have built around Trump just amazes me. I remember being creeped out by the hero worship from many on the left of Obama, but it’s almost on a whole other level when it comes to Trump. He could literally spit on the Constitution and they would find a way to excuse it. I’m not a Democrat and I’m not really looking forward to anything in a Biden administration other than someone who at least acts decently sane...yet among some of my “conservative” pro-Trump family, I’m the outcast for just not liking Trump and not believing the election was stolen. I am, as I always have been, a pro-capitalism, Constitution-loving, America-loving individual...I don’t feel like I’ve really changed except for everyone around me moving away from any semblance of principles toward only believing whatever Trump says, as if purely being “anti-establishment” is a virtue in and of itself. Just lunacy.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14624
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:28 pm

Tugger wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
M564038 wrote:
A political party just attempted a coup,

Nothing surprises me about americans anymmore.


It wasn't the party, jeez can we stop the hyperbole?

But it WAS the "Republican party". Who was the headliner? Who were those people here to see and represent? What party is that person the leader of (what party did all the speakers belong to/represent)?

Just as you stick BLM and others to the Dems, this gets stuck to the Republicans.

Tugg


And Biden isn't the leader of BLM, no Dem official is ....

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15618
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:59 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
The cult of personality some of these people have built around Trump just amazes me. I remember being creeped out by the hero worship from many on the left of Obama, but it’s almost on a whole other level when it comes to Trump. He could literally spit on the Constitution and they would find a way to excuse it. I’m not a Democrat and I’m not really looking forward to anything in a Biden administration other than someone who at least acts decently sane...yet among some of my “conservative” pro-Trump family, I’m the outcast for just not liking Trump and not believing the election was stolen. I am, as I always have been, a pro-capitalism, Constitution-loving, America-loving individual...I don’t feel like I’ve really changed except for everyone around me moving away from any semblance of principles toward only believing whatever Trump says, as if purely being “anti-establishment” is a virtue in and of itself. Just lunacy.


There’s that and then the wanton plain CRAZY the hardcore ones exhibit. The calls to hang Mike Pence, the calls to take out ‘commie pig cops’, the accusations of GA election officials being on the take to China, the belief that the entire country will start speaking Chinese under a Biden WH. The labeling of ‘RINO traitor’ for any conservative who disses Trump. The absurd paintings of Trump as a six-pack strongman messiah. I have never seen mental illness on this mass scale.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2800
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:23 pm

Twitter and Facebook should start banning everyone from the GOP.
 
luckyone
Posts: 4012
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:28 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Twitter and Facebook should start banning everyone from the GOP.

No, they shouldn't. But anyone who encourages or speaks positively of what happened on Jan 6 should have those posts scrutinized and any individuals who crossed a line should be scrubbed from the platform.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14393
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:30 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Twitter and Facebook should start banning everyone from the GOP.


Taking away peoples' rights is only going to incite the crazies more. If you want to work on stopping so much division this isn't a good move.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2800
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:33 pm

luckyone wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Twitter and Facebook should start banning everyone from the GOP.

No, they shouldn't. But anyone who encourages or speaks positively of what happened on Jan 6 should have those posts scrutinized and any individuals who crossed a line should be scrubbed from the platform.


Plenty of people on this board have made the argument that the GOP is the party of extremists. It Twitter and Facebook start with Trump then they can continue with banning the GOP.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14393
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:57 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
And Biden isn't the leader of BLM, no Dem official is ....

Best regards
Thomas


I know I could tell when they jumped on Bernie's podium in the middle of his speech and he and everyone else did nothing, it was scary.

Dieuwer wrote:

Plenty of people on this board have made the argument that the GOP is the party of extremists. It Twitter and Facebook start with Trump then they can continue with banning the GOP.


They didn't make the argument it was force fed to them by who they watch on TV. In any case it's complete nonsense.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
M564038
Posts: 652
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account

Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:04 pm

People’s rights? People’s rights?

Having private companies help you spread lunatic conspiracy theories about how people, the world and everything works is a right now?

And yes, the GOP is a lunatic, fringe cult spreading false information about absolutely everything from A-Z. It has been that way for decades, most transparently through McCarthy in the 50’s, Watergate and now this shitshow. It is not a political party, it is a fringe cult designed to brainwash people into voting against their own interest.
There.
I said it.


NIKV69 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Twitter and Facebook should start banning everyone from the GOP.


Taking away peoples' rights is only going to incite the crazies more. If you want to work on stopping so much division this isn't a good move.

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