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Aaron747
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Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:27 am

It seems like something is missing from the national conversation about our current political divide. Whether it was liberal protesters accosting politicians in restaurants last year or MAGA going wild in DC and airports this month - the same symptom is clear: supposed adults are not behaving rationally.

This was a group of Trump supporters the other day having a go at Rep. Lou Correa of California’s 46th district (SNA area). I cannot find a description for what is seen here other than mass mental illness. What can be done about this?

https://twitter.com/bradmossesq/status/ ... 61921?s=21

For verification, this morning Rep. Correa discussed the incident here:

https://twitter.com/emnewsdc/status/134 ... 47522?s=21

And a side question: does IAD not have any security?
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BN747
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:03 am

Actually confront a real affliction?

Not ready for that.



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ArcticSEA
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:18 am

I don't know man. Democrats and Libertarians have been talking about mental illness for 4 years.
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Aaron747
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:22 am

ArcticSEA wrote:
I don't know man. Democrats and Libertarians have been talking about mental illness for 4 years.


That of POTUS? Sure, but the issue is immensely larger than that.
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TSS
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:15 am

Aaron747 wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
I don't know man. Democrats and Libertarians have been talking about mental illness for 4 years.


That of POTUS? Sure, but the issue is immensely larger than that.


I'd like for there to be an open and rational dialogue, but if the last four years are any indication any attempt at such would quickly devolve into cries of "I'm not crazy, you are!" from both sides.
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Aaron747
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:19 am

TSS wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
I don't know man. Democrats and Libertarians have been talking about mental illness for 4 years.


That of POTUS? Sure, but the issue is immensely larger than that.


I'd like for there to be an open and rational dialogue, but if the last four years are any indication any attempt at such would quickly devolve into cries of "I'm not crazy, you are!" from both sides.


Half of me says there needs to be a starting point - like admitting there’s a huge problem. But the other half says the country is too large and too many people too far gone for anything to be done. But in that scenario it only gets worse from here.
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flyguy89
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:57 am

Is it mental illness, or unhinged emotion brought about by continuously whipped up hysteria from “conservative” media? It’s more easy than ever now to place yourself in an echo chamber between social media, talk radio, and television and live in a world with a completely alternate set of facts. As you noted, this isn’t exclusive to the right, but at the moment it’s the right who have a titular figurehead in Trump which drives this looney cultish devotion to him. Perhaps things like education, re-establishing institutional trust, and better people on each side of the aisle who can assuage divisions instead of inflaming them.
 
AirframeAS
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:00 am

ArcticSEA wrote:
Democrats and Libertarians have been talking about mental illness for 4 years.


Actually, everyone has been talking about mental illness for decades, yet no one does anything about it. Even Law Enforcement has been clamoring for help with dealing with this as well. They are not doctors.
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Number6
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:51 am

I think it’s fair to say that the USA (and other nations too. The US is not alone in this) is suffering a collective mental breakdown. In my opinion, and it’s just that, the problem stems from many sources. As a citizen of any country, I should expect the news to tell me what’s happening, politicians to look out for my best interests, and my education to equip me with the tools I need to get ahead. And largely, that was done in the US. Then in the last 20 to 30 years, these simple principles became bent and twisted. Now, I have a President telling me that the news can’t be trusted, especially if it’s a story about something he did. I have a government that looks out for the top earners rather than the people who need the help, and I’ve Schools who are either underfunded, or depending on the state, looked upon by politicians as ‘indoctrination’ centres, so school curriculums are slanted to more ideological stances rather than setting up a child with the tools they’ll need.

Add into this the Internet, which over 30 years has gone from a ‘thats a nice idea, but limited in availability’ to becoming a huge megaphone for any and all ideas, and you have what you have today. A societal meltdown.

Let’s take the Qanon believers as an example. Most regular people reading the whole idea of the conspiracy would laugh it away. If someone came up to you in the street and told you DJT was sent by god to push back the evil democrats and Hollywood elite and they’re pedophile cult, you’d laugh at them and move on. Now the Internet has amplified this idiotic conspiracy theory and found plenty of people who’ll believe it, and so it’s multiplied. The result is, well we’ve all seen the result.

As an aside, here’s a personal example. My best friend is American. She’s living here in Europe and watched the events at the Capital from home. She rang her parents the next day. They live in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. They’re Conservatives. She asked them about the right wing extremists who caused the trouble, and her mother came back straight away with ‘I’ve heard it was Antifa pretending to be Trump supporters’. I’ve met them and they generally seem like nice people, not idiots, with a decent education, yet it was easier for them to see the pictures from the capital and hear how it wasn’t their fellow Trump Supporters, it wasn’t them.

How do you fix things. I don’t know. A massive national conversation is needed, but with half the population unwilling to listen to the other half, how do you even make headway? What I do know is that if things stay as they are, if people believe that all news that doesn’t fit what they believe is fake, if you can’t trust politicians to look out for you, then society with continue to degenerate, and then wars begin. I don’t think it’ll come to that, but that’s the outcome.

Trust is needed now more than ever, and getting that back is damn difficult.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:21 am

Number6 wrote:
I think it’s fair to say that the USA (and other nations too. The US is not alone in this) is suffering a collective mental breakdown. In my opinion, and it’s just that, the problem stems from many sources. As a citizen of any country, I should expect the news to tell me what’s happening, politicians to look out for my best interests, and my education to equip me with the tools I need to get ahead. And largely, that was done in the US. Then in the last 20 to 30 years, these simple principles became bent and twisted. Now, I have a President telling me that the news can’t be trusted, especially if it’s a story about something he did. I have a government that looks out for the top earners rather than the people who need the help, and I’ve Schools who are either underfunded, or depending on the state, looked upon by politicians as ‘indoctrination’ centres, so school curriculums are slanted to more ideological stances rather than setting up a child with the tools they’ll need.

Add into this the Internet, which over 30 years has gone from a ‘thats a nice idea, but limited in availability’ to becoming a huge megaphone for any and all ideas, and you have what you have today. A societal meltdown.

Let’s take the Qanon believers as an example. Most regular people reading the whole idea of the conspiracy would laugh it away. If someone came up to you in the street and told you DJT was sent by god to push back the evil democrats and Hollywood elite and they’re pedophile cult, you’d laugh at them and move on. Now the Internet has amplified this idiotic conspiracy theory and found plenty of people who’ll believe it, and so it’s multiplied. The result is, well we’ve all seen the result.

As an aside, here’s a personal example. My best friend is American. She’s living here in Europe and watched the events at the Capital from home. She rang her parents the next day. They live in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. They’re Conservatives. She asked them about the right wing extremists who caused the trouble, and her mother came back straight away with ‘I’ve heard it was Antifa pretending to be Trump supporters’. I’ve met them and they generally seem like nice people, not idiots, with a decent education, yet it was easier for them to see the pictures from the capital and hear how it wasn’t their fellow Trump Supporters, it wasn’t them.

How do you fix things. I don’t know. A massive national conversation is needed, but with half the population unwilling to listen to the other half, how do you even make headway? What I do know is that if things stay as they are, if people believe that all news that doesn’t fit what they believe is fake, if you can’t trust politicians to look out for you, then society with continue to degenerate, and then wars begin. I don’t think it’ll come to that, but that’s the outcome.

Trust is needed now more than ever, and getting that back is damn difficult.


Very cogent analysis - I agree on all points. Good point about trust too - it’s hard enough to fix between two people. Now it’s also between media and audiences, institutions and citizens, and so on.
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casinterest
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:15 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Number6 wrote:
I think it’s fair to say that the USA (and other nations too. The US is not alone in this) is suffering a collective mental breakdown. In my opinion, and it’s just that, the problem stems from many sources. As a citizen of any country, I should expect the news to tell me what’s happening, politicians to look out for my best interests, and my education to equip me with the tools I need to get ahead. And largely, that was done in the US. Then in the last 20 to 30 years, these simple principles became bent and twisted. Now, I have a President telling me that the news can’t be trusted, especially if it’s a story about something he did. I have a government that looks out for the top earners rather than the people who need the help, and I’ve Schools who are either underfunded, or depending on the state, looked upon by politicians as ‘indoctrination’ centres, so school curriculums are slanted to more ideological stances rather than setting up a child with the tools they’ll need.

Add into this the Internet, which over 30 years has gone from a ‘thats a nice idea, but limited in availability’ to becoming a huge megaphone for any and all ideas, and you have what you have today. A societal meltdown.

Let’s take the Qanon believers as an example. Most regular people reading the whole idea of the conspiracy would laugh it away. If someone came up to you in the street and told you DJT was sent by god to push back the evil democrats and Hollywood elite and they’re pedophile cult, you’d laugh at them and move on. Now the Internet has amplified this idiotic conspiracy theory and found plenty of people who’ll believe it, and so it’s multiplied. The result is, well we’ve all seen the result.

As an aside, here’s a personal example. My best friend is American. She’s living here in Europe and watched the events at the Capital from home. She rang her parents the next day. They live in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. They’re Conservatives. She asked them about the right wing extremists who caused the trouble, and her mother came back straight away with ‘I’ve heard it was Antifa pretending to be Trump supporters’. I’ve met them and they generally seem like nice people, not idiots, with a decent education, yet it was easier for them to see the pictures from the capital and hear how it wasn’t their fellow Trump Supporters, it wasn’t them.

How do you fix things. I don’t know. A massive national conversation is needed, but with half the population unwilling to listen to the other half, how do you even make headway? What I do know is that if things stay as they are, if people believe that all news that doesn’t fit what they believe is fake, if you can’t trust politicians to look out for you, then society with continue to degenerate, and then wars begin. I don’t think it’ll come to that, but that’s the outcome.

Trust is needed now more than ever, and getting that back is damn difficult.


Very cogent analysis - I agree on all points. Good point about trust too - it’s hard enough to fix between two people. Now it’s also between media and audiences, institutions and citizens, and so on.



A lot is wrong here in the US.
Citizen's United
Political speech from Churches
Right Wing Media
Education
Fear


To sum it all up as "mental illness" ignore how we got here. A lot of poignant discussions need to be had about how leaders of all sorts of organizations, and especially the President, Senators, and Representatives got to the point of undermining the US constitution and election.

People that want to be elected learned to dance for Money instead of leadership.
People that wanted change learned to be outraged rather than informed.
People that wanted to inform learned to go for the money instead of for integrity.
People that wanted to quiet dissent went after education
People that tried to stand their ground found themselves attacked and lived in fear.


How much of this can be discussed as Mental Illness? How much of this is just a result of systematic abuses allowed by Money over time?


The video's at the start of this thread show people so mislead that they are attacking a perceived enemy. Perhaps it is mental illness to fall for lies, but it is also the fault of the liars.

Trust can be rebuilt by friends and neighbors, but the liars and frauds must be held accountable. I am not sure if the US is ready to enter the full discussion on how bad Citizen's United, Right Wing Media, and Political pulpits are, but that where the country needs to go. For now starting with Trump and those in Congress directly responsible for perpetrating these lies about the election, we must hold those that betrayed the trust as accountable as those that led the riots.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:14 pm

to use SF writer Larry Niven's words: "The majority is always sane!" :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:34 pm

casinterest wrote:


A lot is wrong here in the US.
Citizen's United
Political speech from Churches
Right Wing Media
Education
Fear



For me, the weirdest thing that has grown in the US right now is that politics is now everything. Already, prior to the inauguration, there are discussions of the mid terms in two years. Politics has become all consuming. The 24 hour news cycle is filled with it and let’s be honest, Trump has done more than any other to keep the office of the president in the news. Combine that with a belief that questioning the current system is almost a blasphemous standpoint and you’ve got huge issues. Trust and accountability needs to be brought back to the for front, and people need to learn to discuss issues and not just shout down a differing point of view. I don’t know how you bring that to pass though. My worry is that right now, the US is too fractured to mend, and may need an event so big that a reset will happen and calmer heads will prevail. I hate to think what that event would be though.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:52 pm

Number6 wrote:
casinterest wrote:


A lot is wrong here in the US.
Citizen's United
Political speech from Churches
Right Wing Media
Education
Fear



For me, the weirdest thing that has grown in the US right now is that politics is now everything. Already, prior to the inauguration, there are discussions of the mid terms in two years. Politics has become all consuming. The 24 hour news cycle is filled with it and let’s be honest, Trump has done more than any other to keep the office of the president in the news. Combine that with a belief that questioning the current system is almost a blasphemous standpoint and you’ve got huge issues. Trust and accountability needs to be brought back to the for front, and people need to learn to discuss issues and not just shout down a differing point of view. I don’t know how you bring that to pass though. My worry is that right now, the US is too fractured to mend, and may need an event so big that a reset will happen and calmer heads will prevail. I hate to think what that event would be though.



The US is not too fractured to mend. There are seriously strained items, and as can be seen in other threads, misunderstandings about what is a real right and what is perceived.

However my facebook feed currently shows neighbors reaching out to others that just had a baby for a meal train, or helping people through cancer treatments and covid illness, people trying to organize youth sports, and people trying to get items for the neighborhood installed. The Trust needs to be rebuilt through education as to what are the real issues we face as a nation, a state, a county, and a city/town.
There are far too many folks that blindly extol liberalism, or conservatism at all times, without realizing that there is a time and payoff for both in different areas of policy. Those are the discussions needed.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:56 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
I don't know man. Democrats and Libertarians have been talking about mental illness for 4 years.


I thought libertarians were for free will, and more personal autonomy. So let those will mental illness do what they do. They might be more pro-choice when it comes to abortion, pro LGBTQ rights, but have aligned themselves with Republican viewpoints for most other issues.
 
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:52 am

casinterest wrote:
A lot is wrong here in the US.
Citizen's United
Political speech from Churches
Right Wing Media
Left Wing Media
Education
Fear



FTFY
 
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casinterest
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:26 pm

Wacker1000 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
A lot is wrong here in the US.
Citizen's United
Political speech from Churches
Right Wing Media
Left Wing Media
Education
Fear



FTFY


No. Left wing media, albeit loony isn't much of an issue. They don't get the mass buy in from uneducated traitors.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:37 pm

Mental illness defense might have worked in the past for individual bad deeds, but I doubt mass mental illness defense will work for Jan 6 events.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:54 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Mental illness defense might have worked in the past for individual bad deeds, but I doubt mass mental illness defense will work for Jan 6 events.


It won't, but there is going to be a lot of soul searching. I expect that there is going to be a lot of heat on the right wing media, and recent moves by the Post and Fox News are only going to bring that scrutiny to a wider audience.

For those that wonder, the Post just told it's editors not to use CNN.MSNBC,The NY times, or the Washington post.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/13/busi ... D=ref_fark


Fox news has decided opinion is more important, so they are dropping yet another news hour.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/11/busi ... anges.html

Rupert Murdoch’s cable news channel said on Monday that it would revamp its daytime lineup starting next week, the week of President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s inauguration, adding another hour of right-wing opinion as a lead-in to its prime-time stars Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity.

The changes, beginning Monday, come as Fox News has experienced an unusual ratings dip that began after Election Day. Pro-Trump viewers balked at the network’s early call of Arizona in favor of Mr. Biden, and its subsequent recognition of Mr. Biden as the rightful victor further alienated supporters of President Trump, who has insisted, falsely, that the contest was rigged. CNN has beaten Fox News in viewership over the past few weeks, according to Nielsen.




It appears they are more scared of newsmax than their viewers figuring out the sham.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:04 pm

I liked the quote from Lana Del Ray that Trumpism isn’t the problem, sociopathic narcissism is the problem (and Trump cultists are an example).

And it’s a widespread problem. I would only add the word ignorant. Sociopathic ignoro-narcissism. People across the political spectrum have this. Just having “good politics” does not cure this problem. Certain people are toxic and they are ill. We haven’t yet found a way to attach these labels to people. I am hopeful AI will give us more tools to filter debates and, especially, journalism. Certain statements are emotional venting, supremacist statements or egomaniacal statements, by their very construction.
 
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:59 pm

Why can't we have a legit conversation about mental health awareness in the US and on a.net without it turning in to something Trump related? This is. A serious topic that needs to be addressed
When wasn't America great?


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Sokes
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:51 am

Hoyerswerda is a city in former East Germany rather close to the Polish border. There used to be big lignite power plants in the wider area and a computer and/ or information technology factory. At German reunification the factory closed and also a lot of outdated lignite plants were closed. Indeed since 1988 a third of the population moved out, probably the young ones. Including deaths today the town has around half the population left.

In 1991 asylum seeker homes in that town were attacked for days together. Politics shifted these people out. The town was then declared "foreigner free", which was elected as worst word of 1991.

Today that town has educational institutions which seem to be popular with Polish as well. Relationships with the Polish people are good.

I have never been to the US. To me it sounds as if people are loosing hope and have their ambitions frustrated. Depression with men sometimes expresses as aggression.

I also want to mention what Keynes called "aggregate demand". Factories are of no use if demand is not there. Any country in which households want to save more than industry/ government want to invest have this problem. Since Bretton Woods that problem is solved by the US being reserve currency. The US has to consume the excess savings of the world. That raises the question who gets to consume these excess savings? Under Clinton it were poor house builders, under Bush the military.

I don't know who gets the excess savings today. But from the state of society it looks to me that only the rich and the military get it. If at the same time manufacturing jobs get lost I'm not surprised that some people get unhappy.

As a side note: The Chinese currency can't become reserve currency any time soon. Chinese aggregate demand is too low, Chinese save too much. So whatever can't be absorbed by "belt and road" has to be absorbed by the reserve currency.

Some Americans are fed up to pay for being the policeman of the world. But isn't that the reason that the US is allowed to consume excess savings of the world?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
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seb146
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:41 pm

AirframeAS wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
Democrats and Libertarians have been talking about mental illness for 4 years.


Actually, everyone has been talking about mental illness for decades, yet no one does anything about it. Even Law Enforcement has been clamoring for help with dealing with this as well. They are not doctors.


People have moved from "defund the police" to "stop funding the militarization of police and fund social programs like mental health and physical health and job training."
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:47 pm

Sokes wrote:
Hoyerswerda is a city in former East Germany rather close to the Polish border. There used to be big lignite power plants in the wider area and a computer and/ or information technology factory. At German reunification the factory closed and also a lot of outdated lignite plants were closed. Indeed since 1988 a third of the population moved out, probably the young ones. Including deaths today the town has around half the population left.

In 1991 asylum seeker homes in that town were attacked for days together. Politics shifted these people out. The town was then declared "foreigner free", which was elected as worst word of 1991.

Today that town has educational institutions which seem to be popular with Polish as well. Relationships with the Polish people are good.

I have never been to the US. To me it sounds as if people are loosing hope and have their ambitions frustrated. Depression with men sometimes expresses as aggression.


Some people have believed for a very long time that they are losing their country. They are told their country is being overrun with "liberals" and "socialists" and "elitists" and they need to take their country back before they lose their country. They don't want to leave the bubble. They have found safety there with others who believe their country has left them behind. Others, however, feel the country needs to move forward and include others like Muslims and Blacks and Hispanics and LGBTQ people as well as white evangelicals.

Perhaps these people can all gather in a Southern state and live their life a la "Truman Show".
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:13 am

TSS wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Sokes wrote:
Hoyerswerda is a city in former East Germany rather close to the Polish border. There used to be big lignite power plants in the wider area and a computer and/ or information technology factory. At German reunification the factory closed and also a lot of outdated lignite plants were closed. Indeed since 1988 a third of the population moved out, probably the young ones. Including deaths today the town has around half the population left.

In 1991 asylum seeker homes in that town were attacked for days together. Politics shifted these people out. The town was then declared "foreigner free", which was elected as worst word of 1991.

Today that town has educational institutions which seem to be popular with Polish as well. Relationships with the Polish people are good.

I have never been to the US. To me it sounds as if people are loosing hope and have their ambitions frustrated. Depression with men sometimes expresses as aggression.


Some people have believed for a very long time that they are losing their country. They are told their country is being overrun with "liberals" and "socialists" and "elitists" and they need to take their country back before they lose their country. They don't want to leave the bubble. They have found safety there with others who believe their country has left them behind. Others, however, feel the country needs to move forward and include others like Muslims and Blacks and Hispanics and LGBTQ people as well as white evangelicals.

Perhaps these people can all gather in a Southern state and live their life a la "Truman Show".


How fitting that in a thread about mental illness Seb sees fit to once again showcase the combination fascination and phobia that he harbors regarding The South. Fair enough, one good turn deserves another...

I understand that the first phase of an exchange program between The South and Portland is already underway-

OPERATON OREGON TRAIL IS A GO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngOUkCLqK7k

Over the summer while riots and civil unrest raged in Portland, Seb never failed to reassure us that news reports of mayhem in Portland were overblown "fake" news and that all was well... which always remind me of this scene from Animal House-

Image

Seriously though, I've heard from people who've actually been there that Portland is a fun place:

Portland (Everything You Need to Know) - Ultra Spiritual Life Ep. 154 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI194enU8_0

Vegan Strip Club & The Worst City In America | Andrew Schulz | Stand Up Comedy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceYo93Mk08g

ANDREW SCHULZ: PORTLAND IS THE WORST CITY EVER https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPs7fKC6zyw


Having grown up in Oregon and spent a fair amount of time in Portland as recently as November, literally none of what you say is true. The #blacklivesmatter protests were in a very small section of downtown. Protesters did not plan or threaten to execute elected officials. Many of the protesters were peaceful, it was, in fact, the police who immediately declared riots and began firing on protesters who didn't arm themselves until late.

Remember the MAGA outrage that "BLM IS HOARDING BRICKS!!!"

I was simply suggesting that the people who are willing to commit felonies and execute elected officials in the name of MAGA be sent to their own land where they would be free to live in their own echo chamber.
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cedarjet
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:16 am

The media has made the country ungovernable. Half the people think Obama was a Kenyan Muslim, the other half think Trump’s a Russian spy. Madness
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Virtual737
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:48 am

I'm not understanding how someone who condemns the BLM protests could think that the Trump mob's march on the Capitol was in any way justified. A relatively small % of the former engaged in illegal acts and should quite rightly be punished to the full extent possible. Pretty much all the latter set out to commit treason, egged on by a "Leader" very few if any people outside of the Republican party worldwide think is fit to lead a Tupperware party, let alone a political one.

Trump has not once won the popular vote, so all of those saying that their vote matters are saying that the majority of votes don't. Democracy is far from perfect, but what solution are these people coming up with as an alternative? The only one I've really heard so far is a split of the Union. Perhaps that is the only way and Trump's wall will be needed, not on the border of the US and Mexico, but within the US itself.

Is it mental illness? I'm not qualified to say, but the driver, however valid, is being totally blurred by lies and an inability for people to actually think for themselves before believing the "facts" that are being rammed down their throats without any attempt by them to validate. The vast majority of these are at the lower end of the education scale so I guess it's not all that surprising.

I'm not saying the Democrats are perfect by any means, but the US way seems to be... you hit me with words, so I'll hit you with a stick. You hit me with a stick so I'll hit you with a grenade. Everything is an escalation.

It will be decades before the US's demands for foreign countries to respect their citizen's rights to democracy will be met with anything other than total laughter, not that those involved in doing it would give a damn anyway.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:16 am

No they aren't ready. Mental health services are divided into two-classes in America. Since a lot of mental health services (psychotherapy and psychiatry) aren't covered by insurance, or insurance puts you into a bucket of doctors/therapists who accept that shhht insurance...and you have to wait for an opening, people who can pay cash get the best care. On the lowest end, people on Medicaid are forced into clinics with overworked therapists and doctors and they only get a small percentage of the quality of care that people paying cash money do.
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TangoandCash
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:53 am

Americans are hardly ready/willing to talk about individual mental health issues, let alone mass mental illness
.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:59 am

Pellegrine wrote:
No they aren't ready. Mental health services are divided into two-classes in America. Since a lot of mental health services (psychotherapy and psychiatry) aren't covered by insurance, or insurance puts you into a bucket of doctors/therapists who accept that shhht insurance...and you have to wait for an opening, people who can pay cash get the best care. On the lowest end, people on Medicaid are forced into clinics with overworked therapists and doctors and they only get a small percentage of the quality of care that people paying cash money do.


This is never mentioned enough. Mental health care is an indelible component of overall healthcare.
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Aesma
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:02 am

To be honest there is very little relationship between the political situation in the US and mental health care. These "Trump crazy" people aren't actually crazy, they don't need meds or a psychiatrist, they wouldn't trust the doctor anyway. They need something to happen to help them snap out of it, but I don't know exactly what. It seems the electoral defeat isn't enough. Maybe being booted out of Facebook and Twitter might help.
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TSS
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:08 am

Aesma wrote:
To be honest there is very little relationship between the political situation in the US and mental health care. These "Trump crazy" people aren't actually crazy, they don't need meds or a psychiatrist, they wouldn't trust the doctor anyway. They need something to happen to help them snap out of it, but I don't know exactly what. It seems the electoral defeat isn't enough. Maybe being booted out of Facebook and Twitter might help.


Oh sure, kick them out of Facebook and Twitter for wrongthink whether they've broken the terms of service or not because nothing will help convince them that they're having a paranoid delusion instead of seeing reality like having genuine, tangible proof that people from the Left and "Big Tech" are out to silence them.
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AirframeAS
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:48 am

seb146 wrote:
AirframeAS wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
Democrats and Libertarians have been talking about mental illness for 4 years.


Actually, everyone has been talking about mental illness for decades, yet no one does anything about it. Even Law Enforcement has been clamoring for help with dealing with this as well. They are not doctors.


People have moved from "defund the police" to "stop funding the militarization of police and fund social programs like mental health and physical health and job training."


And look where that got us now.... those who want to defund the police is now saying "oops!" and now ASKING for police to do their jobs without really being defunded. This campaign was not very well thought out, it seems. Geniuses, I tell ya!
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seb146
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:22 pm

AirframeAS wrote:
seb146 wrote:
AirframeAS wrote:

Actually, everyone has been talking about mental illness for decades, yet no one does anything about it. Even Law Enforcement has been clamoring for help with dealing with this as well. They are not doctors.


People have moved from "defund the police" to "stop funding the militarization of police and fund social programs like mental health and physical health and job training."


And look where that got us now.... those who want to defund the police is now saying "oops!" and now ASKING for police to do their jobs without really being defunded. This campaign was not very well thought out, it seems. Geniuses, I tell ya!


You mean admitting there are flaws in the plan and changing the plan? What is wrong with that? The whole point of BLM protests is to demand police do their job and stop shooting unarmed minorities. So, technically, BLM protesters have been asking police to do their job for years. That job would be to treat minorities like they treat whites.
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AirframeAS
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:21 pm

seb146 wrote:
AirframeAS wrote:
seb146 wrote:

People have moved from "defund the police" to "stop funding the militarization of police and fund social programs like mental health and physical health and job training."


And look where that got us now.... those who want to defund the police is now saying "oops!" and now ASKING for police to do their jobs without really being defunded. This campaign was not very well thought out, it seems. Geniuses, I tell ya!


You mean admitting there are flaws in the plan and changing the plan? What is wrong with that? The whole point of BLM protests is to demand police do their job and stop shooting unarmed minorities. So, technically, BLM protesters have been asking police to do their job for years. That job would be to treat minorities like they treat whites.


Well, I think defunding the police was not very well thought out, however, I do agree with Colorado SB20-217.
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seb146
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:12 pm

AirframeAS wrote:
seb146 wrote:
AirframeAS wrote:

And look where that got us now.... those who want to defund the police is now saying "oops!" and now ASKING for police to do their jobs without really being defunded. This campaign was not very well thought out, it seems. Geniuses, I tell ya!


You mean admitting there are flaws in the plan and changing the plan? What is wrong with that? The whole point of BLM protests is to demand police do their job and stop shooting unarmed minorities. So, technically, BLM protesters have been asking police to do their job for years. That job would be to treat minorities like they treat whites.


Well, I think defunding the police was not very well thought out, however, I do agree with Colorado SB20-217.


That is a step, however, officers still have the option to turn them off. There are times when an officer covers up their camera or stops recording when they engage with someone who ends up shot or dead. So, it is back to the officer's word against the suspects.
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:16 pm

casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Number6 wrote:
I think it’s fair to say that the USA (and other nations too. The US is not alone in this) is suffering a collective mental breakdown. In my opinion, and it’s just that, the problem stems from many sources. As a citizen of any country, I should expect the news to tell me what’s happening, politicians to look out for my best interests, and my education to equip me with the tools I need to get ahead. And largely, that was done in the US. Then in the last 20 to 30 years, these simple principles became bent and twisted. Now, I have a President telling me that the news can’t be trusted, especially if it’s a story about something he did. I have a government that looks out for the top earners rather than the people who need the help, and I’ve Schools who are either underfunded, or depending on the state, looked upon by politicians as ‘indoctrination’ centres, so school curriculums are slanted to more ideological stances rather than setting up a child with the tools they’ll need.

Add into this the Internet, which over 30 years has gone from a ‘thats a nice idea, but limited in availability’ to becoming a huge megaphone for any and all ideas, and you have what you have today. A societal meltdown.

Let’s take the Qanon believers as an example. Most regular people reading the whole idea of the conspiracy would laugh it away. If someone came up to you in the street and told you DJT was sent by god to push back the evil democrats and Hollywood elite and they’re pedophile cult, you’d laugh at them and move on. Now the Internet has amplified this idiotic conspiracy theory and found plenty of people who’ll believe it, and so it’s multiplied. The result is, well we’ve all seen the result.

As an aside, here’s a personal example. My best friend is American. She’s living here in Europe and watched the events at the Capital from home. She rang her parents the next day. They live in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. They’re Conservatives. She asked them about the right wing extremists who caused the trouble, and her mother came back straight away with ‘I’ve heard it was Antifa pretending to be Trump supporters’. I’ve met them and they generally seem like nice people, not idiots, with a decent education, yet it was easier for them to see the pictures from the capital and hear how it wasn’t their fellow Trump Supporters, it wasn’t them.

How do you fix things. I don’t know. A massive national conversation is needed, but with half the population unwilling to listen to the other half, how do you even make headway? What I do know is that if things stay as they are, if people believe that all news that doesn’t fit what they believe is fake, if you can’t trust politicians to look out for you, then society with continue to degenerate, and then wars begin. I don’t think it’ll come to that, but that’s the outcome.

Trust is needed now more than ever, and getting that back is damn difficult.


Very cogent analysis - I agree on all points. Good point about trust too - it’s hard enough to fix between two people. Now it’s also between media and audiences, institutions and citizens, and so on.



A lot is wrong here in the US.
Citizen's United
Political speech from Churches
Right Wing Media
Education
Fear


To sum it all up as "mental illness" ignore how we got here. A lot of poignant discussions need to be had about how leaders of all sorts of organizations, and especially the President, Senators, and Representatives got to the point of undermining the US constitution and election.

People that want to be elected learned to dance for Money instead of leadership.
People that wanted change learned to be outraged rather than informed.
People that wanted to inform learned to go for the money instead of for integrity.
People that wanted to quiet dissent went after education
People that tried to stand their ground found themselves attacked and lived in fear.


How much of this can be discussed as Mental Illness? How much of this is just a result of systematic abuses allowed by Money over time?


The video's at the start of this thread show people so mislead that they are attacking a perceived enemy. Perhaps it is mental illness to fall for lies, but it is also the fault of the liars.

Trust can be rebuilt by friends and neighbors, but the liars and frauds must be held accountable. I am not sure if the US is ready to enter the full discussion on how bad Citizen's United, Right Wing Media, and Political pulpits are, but that where the country needs to go. For now starting with Trump and those in Congress directly responsible for perpetrating these lies about the election, we must hold those that betrayed the trust as accountable as those that led the riots.


So, those that disagree are not only “deplorables, clinging to their guns and religion”; they’re mentally ill. Have you read history about regimes that treated disagreement as mental illness? Perhaps, we should bring back the stake.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 7833
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:26 pm

casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Number6 wrote:
I think it’s fair to say that the USA (and other nations too. The US is not alone in this) is suffering a collective mental breakdown. In my opinion, and it’s just that, the problem stems from many sources. As a citizen of any country, I should expect the news to tell me what’s happening, politicians to look out for my best interests, and my education to equip me with the tools I need to get ahead. And largely, that was done in the US. Then in the last 20 to 30 years, these simple principles became bent and twisted. Now, I have a President telling me that the news can’t be trusted, especially if it’s a story about something he did. I have a government that looks out for the top earners rather than the people who need the help, and I’ve Schools who are either underfunded, or depending on the state, looked upon by politicians as ‘indoctrination’ centres, so school curriculums are slanted to more ideological stances rather than setting up a child with the tools they’ll need.

Add into this the Internet, which over 30 years has gone from a ‘thats a nice idea, but limited in availability’ to becoming a huge megaphone for any and all ideas, and you have what you have today. A societal meltdown.

Let’s take the Qanon believers as an example. Most regular people reading the whole idea of the conspiracy would laugh it away. If someone came up to you in the street and told you DJT was sent by god to push back the evil democrats and Hollywood elite and they’re pedophile cult, you’d laugh at them and move on. Now the Internet has amplified this idiotic conspiracy theory and found plenty of people who’ll believe it, and so it’s multiplied. The result is, well we’ve all seen the result.

As an aside, here’s a personal example. My best friend is American. She’s living here in Europe and watched the events at the Capital from home. She rang her parents the next day. They live in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. They’re Conservatives. She asked them about the right wing extremists who caused the trouble, and her mother came back straight away with ‘I’ve heard it was Antifa pretending to be Trump supporters’. I’ve met them and they generally seem like nice people, not idiots, with a decent education, yet it was easier for them to see the pictures from the capital and hear how it wasn’t their fellow Trump Supporters, it wasn’t them.

How do you fix things. I don’t know. A massive national conversation is needed, but with half the population unwilling to listen to the other half, how do you even make headway? What I do know is that if things stay as they are, if people believe that all news that doesn’t fit what they believe is fake, if you can’t trust politicians to look out for you, then society with continue to degenerate, and then wars begin. I don’t think it’ll come to that, but that’s the outcome.

Trust is needed now more than ever, and getting that back is damn difficult.


Very cogent analysis - I agree on all points. Good point about trust too - it’s hard enough to fix between two people. Now it’s also between media and audiences, institutions and citizens, and so on.



A lot is wrong here in the US.
Citizen's United
Political speech from Churches
Right Wing Media
Education
Fear


To sum it all up as "mental illness" ignore how we got here. A lot of poignant discussions need to be had about how leaders of all sorts of organizations, and especially the President, Senators, and Representatives got to the point of undermining the US constitution and election.

People that want to be elected learned to dance for Money instead of leadership.
People that wanted change learned to be outraged rather than informed.
People that wanted to inform learned to go for the money instead of for integrity.
People that wanted to quiet dissent went after education
People that tried to stand their ground found themselves attacked and lived in fear.


How much of this can be discussed as Mental Illness? How much of this is just a result of systematic abuses allowed by Money over time?


The video's at the start of this thread show people so mislead that they are attacking a perceived enemy. Perhaps it is mental illness to fall for lies, but it is also the fault of the liars.

Trust can be rebuilt by friends and neighbors, but the liars and frauds must be held accountable. I am not sure if the US is ready to enter the full discussion on how bad Citizen's United, Right Wing Media, and Political pulpits are, but that where the country needs to go. For now starting with Trump and those in Congress directly responsible for perpetrating these lies about the election, we must hold those that betrayed the trust as accountable as those that led the riots.


And, cognitive dissonance, you want to give politicians more money, more power over our lives! Take it back, reduce the USG to 10% - 15% of the economy, reduce government regulation, occupational licensing, non-stop wars on drugs, poverty, terror.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:34 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
I don't know man. Democrats and Libertarians have been talking about mental illness for 4 years.

Progressives have been talking about mental illness for decades longer than that, whether it's PTSD in the military, or CTE in football, or not executing the mentally ill, or divorcing mental healthcare from policing/jailing, or healthcare coverage period--let alone for mental health. Frankly I'd love to hear one thing conservatives have pushed for with respect to mental illness.

cedarjet wrote:
The media has made the country ungovernable. Half the people think Obama was a Kenyan Muslim, the other half think Trump’s a Russian spy. Madness

Uh no. The other half of the country recognizes Trump's 50+ years of behavior as, you know, real.

casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Number6 wrote:
I think it’s fair to say that the USA (and other nations too. The US is not alone in this) is suffering a collective mental breakdown. In my opinion, and it’s just that, the problem stems from many sources. As a citizen of any country, I should expect the news to tell me what’s happening, politicians to look out for my best interests, and my education to equip me with the tools I need to get ahead. And largely, that was done in the US. Then in the last 20 to 30 years, these simple principles became bent and twisted. Now, I have a President telling me that the news can’t be trusted, especially if it’s a story about something he did. I have a government that looks out for the top earners rather than the people who need the help, and I’ve Schools who are either underfunded, or depending on the state, looked upon by politicians as ‘indoctrination’ centres, so school curriculums are slanted to more ideological stances rather than setting up a child with the tools they’ll need.

Add into this the Internet, which over 30 years has gone from a ‘thats a nice idea, but limited in availability’ to becoming a huge megaphone for any and all ideas, and you have what you have today. A societal meltdown.

Let’s take the Qanon believers as an example. Most regular people reading the whole idea of the conspiracy would laugh it away. If someone came up to you in the street and told you DJT was sent by god to push back the evil democrats and Hollywood elite and they’re pedophile cult, you’d laugh at them and move on. Now the Internet has amplified this idiotic conspiracy theory and found plenty of people who’ll believe it, and so it’s multiplied. The result is, well we’ve all seen the result.

As an aside, here’s a personal example. My best friend is American. She’s living here in Europe and watched the events at the Capital from home. She rang her parents the next day. They live in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. They’re Conservatives. She asked them about the right wing extremists who caused the trouble, and her mother came back straight away with ‘I’ve heard it was Antifa pretending to be Trump supporters’. I’ve met them and they generally seem like nice people, not idiots, with a decent education, yet it was easier for them to see the pictures from the capital and hear how it wasn’t their fellow Trump Supporters, it wasn’t them.

How do you fix things. I don’t know. A massive national conversation is needed, but with half the population unwilling to listen to the other half, how do you even make headway? What I do know is that if things stay as they are, if people believe that all news that doesn’t fit what they believe is fake, if you can’t trust politicians to look out for you, then society with continue to degenerate, and then wars begin. I don’t think it’ll come to that, but that’s the outcome.

Trust is needed now more than ever, and getting that back is damn difficult.


Very cogent analysis - I agree on all points. Good point about trust too - it’s hard enough to fix between two people. Now it’s also between media and audiences, institutions and citizens, and so on.



A lot is wrong here in the US.
Citizen's United
Political speech from Churches
Right Wing Media
Education
Fear


To sum it all up as "mental illness" ignore how we got here. A lot of poignant discussions need to be had about how leaders of all sorts of organizations, and especially the President, Senators, and Representatives got to the point of undermining the US constitution and election.

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: None of that is mental illness.

TSS wrote:
Aesma wrote:
To be honest there is very little relationship between the political situation in the US and mental health care. These "Trump crazy" people aren't actually crazy, they don't need meds or a psychiatrist, they wouldn't trust the doctor anyway. They need something to happen to help them snap out of it, but I don't know exactly what. It seems the electoral defeat isn't enough. Maybe being booted out of Facebook and Twitter might help.


Oh sure, kick them out of Facebook and Twitter for wrongthink whether they've broken the terms of service or not because nothing will help convince them that they're having a paranoid delusion instead of seeing reality like having genuine, tangible proof that people from the Left and "Big Tech" are out to silence them.

LOL "follow me to a dozen different platforms where I'll whine about censorship"

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
So, those that disagree are not only “deplorables, clinging to their guns and religion”; they’re mentally ill. Have you read history about regimes that treated disagreement as mental illness? Perhaps, we should bring back the stake.

Who said they were mentally ill? January 6 proved conclusively that 'deplorables, clinging to their guns and religion' was correct, and honestly a stretch goal and the best case scenario. The worst case scenario are the republicans that brought gallows to hang their own VP and wore shirts that said "6 Million is Not Enough." while bludgeoning a Trump supporting cop to death.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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casinterest
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:15 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Very cogent analysis - I agree on all points. Good point about trust too - it’s hard enough to fix between two people. Now it’s also between media and audiences, institutions and citizens, and so on.



A lot is wrong here in the US.
Citizen's United
Political speech from Churches
Right Wing Media
Education
Fear


To sum it all up as "mental illness" ignore how we got here. A lot of poignant discussions need to be had about how leaders of all sorts of organizations, and especially the President, Senators, and Representatives got to the point of undermining the US constitution and election.

People that want to be elected learned to dance for Money instead of leadership.
People that wanted change learned to be outraged rather than informed.
People that wanted to inform learned to go for the money instead of for integrity.
People that wanted to quiet dissent went after education
People that tried to stand their ground found themselves attacked and lived in fear.


How much of this can be discussed as Mental Illness? How much of this is just a result of systematic abuses allowed by Money over time?


The video's at the start of this thread show people so mislead that they are attacking a perceived enemy. Perhaps it is mental illness to fall for lies, but it is also the fault of the liars.

Trust can be rebuilt by friends and neighbors, but the liars and frauds must be held accountable. I am not sure if the US is ready to enter the full discussion on how bad Citizen's United, Right Wing Media, and Political pulpits are, but that where the country needs to go. For now starting with Trump and those in Congress directly responsible for perpetrating these lies about the election, we must hold those that betrayed the trust as accountable as those that led the riots.


And, cognitive dissonance, you want to give politicians more money, more power over our lives! Take it back, reduce the USG to 10% - 15% of the economy, reduce government regulation, occupational licensing, non-stop wars on drugs, poverty, terror.



Not sure what you are referring to. I am talking about the liars that should have known better, perpetuating the myths going forward. Those that suffer from under education, or mental illness are only following an ill formed propaganda repertoire of right wing media, and bad dishonorable actors, that believe in abuse rather than trust.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:33 am

Make Mental Institutions Great Again

(Really)
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Aaron747
Topic Author
Posts: 15044
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:07 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Make Mental Institutions Great Again

(Really)


This has been talked about for years - though your title is unhelpful. Mental hospitals were closed largely as a reaction by courts, families, and experts to inhumane treatment and misdiagnoses that were too regular back in the day. In their stead, prisons have become a replacement of sorts. With today's medications and understanding, many experts argue reopening of such facilities could be effective if managed well. Obviously leaving people largely to the devices of a healthcare system where mental care is often not covered and waitlisted for public facilities is not working.

The US has also seen a decline in the number of people confined in psychiatric hospitals and other residential facilities—from 471,000 in 1970 to 170,000 in 2014, according to a 2017 report.4 But these closures were not followed by the creation of a nationwide system of community mental health centers—as President John F. Kennedy had envisioned when he signed the Community Mental Health Act in 1963, a month before he was assassinated. The funds used to operate the hospitals “did not follow the people who’d been released back into the community,” says Ronald Manderscheid, executive director of the National Association of State Mental Health Program Directors and a coauthor of the 2017 report. “One consequence of all that,” he adds, “is that the jails have become the new mental health institution in America.”

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.13 ... 2019.01671

There are also legal issues that complicate things:

https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/ar ... es/2013-10

Over time, several court cases have further defined the legal requirements for admission to or retention in a hospital setting. In Lake v. Cameron, a 1966 D.C. Court of Appeals case, the concept of “least restrictive setting” was introduced, requiring hospitals to discharge patients to an environment less restrictive than a hospital if at all possible [11]. In the 1975 case of O’Connor v. Donaldson, the U.S. Supreme Court declared that a person had to be a danger to him- or herself or to others for confinement to be constitutional [12]. The 1999 U.S. Supreme Court decision in Olmstead v. L.C. stated that mental illness was a disability and covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act. All governmental agencies, not just the state hospitals, were be required thereafter to make “reasonable accommodations” to move people with mental illness into community-based treatment to end unnecessary institutionalization [13].
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:29 am

Aaron747 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Make Mental Institutions Great Again

(Really)


Over time, several court cases have further defined the legal requirements for admission to or retention in a hospital setting. In Lake v. Cameron, a 1966 D.C. Court of Appeals case, the concept of “least restrictive setting” was introduced, requiring hospitals to discharge patients to an environment less restrictive than a hospital if at all possible [11]. In the 1975 case of O’Connor v. Donaldson, the U.S. Supreme Court declared that a person had to be a danger to him- or herself or to others for confinement to be constitutional [12]. The 1999 U.S. Supreme Court decision in Olmstead v. L.C. stated that mental illness was a disability and covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act. All governmental agencies, not just the state hospitals, were be required thereafter to make “reasonable accommodations” to move people with mental illness into community-based treatment to end unnecessary institutionalization [13].


The solution then, is to pack the court, so that these restrictions in confining those that need mental help can be removed.
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bobinthecar
Posts: 23
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:03 pm

This thread is a good example why I try my best not to log in and just read.By what standard do you judge? Frankly I think mental illness is being displayed on this thread by people who think just because they have different beliefs or view of the world are mentally ill. That is pretty sad and honestly scary. Be careful lest someone else judge and find you wanting.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:59 am

bobinthecar wrote:
This thread is a good example why I try my best not to log in and just read.By what standard do you judge? Frankly I think mental illness is being displayed on this thread by people who think just because they have different beliefs or view of the world are mentally ill. That is pretty sad and honestly scary. Be careful lest someone else judge and find you wanting.


Is that really the takeaway? I think the real question was why are so many so-called adults behaving like children in public over political beliefs and disagreements? Mature and emotionally balanced individuals don’t devote time to things like conspiracy theory or following ‘traitor’ politicians through airports.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
TSS
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:02 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
bobinthecar wrote:
This thread is a good example why I try my best not to log in and just read.By what standard do you judge? Frankly I think mental illness is being displayed on this thread by people who think just because they have different beliefs or view of the world are mentally ill. That is pretty sad and honestly scary. Be careful lest someone else judge and find you wanting.


Is that really the takeaway? I think the real question was why are so many so-called adults behaving like children in public over political beliefs and disagreements? Mature and emotionally balanced individuals don’t devote time to things like conspiracy theory or following ‘traitor’ politicians through airports.


Perhaps I can provide some small illumination on that. Someone posted this chart on another website I frequent and as soon as I saw it i thought of this thread. In it you will instantly see the biases and thereby motivations of some of your fellow forumites, but how many of your own can you spot?

Image
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:36 pm

TSS wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
bobinthecar wrote:
This thread is a good example why I try my best not to log in and just read.By what standard do you judge? Frankly I think mental illness is being displayed on this thread by people who think just because they have different beliefs or view of the world are mentally ill. That is pretty sad and honestly scary. Be careful lest someone else judge and find you wanting.


Is that really the takeaway? I think the real question was why are so many so-called adults behaving like children in public over political beliefs and disagreements? Mature and emotionally balanced individuals don’t devote time to things like conspiracy theory or following ‘traitor’ politicians through airports.


Perhaps I can provide some small illumination on that. Someone posted this chart on another website I frequent and as soon as I saw it i thought of this thread. In it you will instantly see the biases and thereby motivations of some of your fellow forumites, but how many of your own can you spot?

Image


This thread is not about forumers - the original post posits that what we’ve all seen in the last month (and year, even) is an alarming number of adults emotionally unchecked over political disagreements. Otherwise balanced individuals focus on work, indulging their families and hobbies, improving the community etc. This is untrue?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Drafran
Posts: 68
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:56 pm

As long as there is an unshakeable belief in a magical, invisible old man who lives in the clouds, there will be mental illness.
 
bennett123
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Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:13 pm

Not sure that everyone becoming an atheist will solve mental illness.
 
bobinthecar
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:16 am

Re: Are Americans Ready To Talk About Mass Mental Illness?

Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:55 pm

WIederling wrote:
to use SF writer Larry Niven's words: "The majority is always sane!" :-)


One of the very few sensible posts on this thread.

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