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ArcticSEA
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2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:14 am

Tomorrow it is expected (and certain) that Donald J. Trump, the 45th President of the United States, will be impeached following his involvement in the storming of the U.S. Capitol building by his supporters on January 6, 2021 following futile and anti-Constitutional attempts to overthrow the election of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. Over 160 Federal investigations are underway with many of the thugs who attacked the building now behind bars, according to the US DOJ.

As of 2100 PST 1/21/2021, the entire House Democratic caucus (215+) have signaled they will vote to impeach the President along with (as it stands currently) 5 members of the Republican caucus; that list, as of right now, includes: Rep. Cheney of WY, Rep. Kinzinger of IL, Rep. Katko of NY, Rep. Upton of MI, and Rep. Herrera Beutler of WA. This list is expected to grow. This will make Donald J. Trump the first President in U.S. history to be impeached twice while in office.
Source: https://twitter.com/NBCPolitics/status/ ... 3800132610

Tonight the U.S. House approved a largely symbolic resolution urging Mike Pence, the would-be target of his supporters had their plot to overthrow the U.S. gov't succeeded, to use his powers as VP to remove Trump via the 25th amendment. Pence has signaled that he will not invoke this power, unless Trump does something even more sinister during his final week in office.
Source: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/12/politics ... index.html

It is not certain that Trump will be acquitted this time. Senate Majority Leader McConnell is reportedly "done" with Trump and supports the effort to impeach 45 a second time, viewing it as the only way to "rid" the party of the Trump brand. McConnell, a wise and calculating politician, would not have put out statements like this unless he knew for a fact he could bring enough of the Republicans in the Senate to convict the President.

Presumably, such a conviction would prevent Trump from ever holding Federal office again.

Perhaps, in retrospect, not the "winning" his supporters had in mind when they boarded the Trump train.
 
luckyone
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:55 am

ArcticSEA wrote:
Tomorrow it is expected (and certain) that Donald J. Trump, the 45th President of the United States, will be impeached following his involvement in the storming of the U.S. Capitol building by his supporters on January 6, 2021 following futile and anti-Constitutional attempts to overthrow the election of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. Over 160 Federal investigations are underway with many of the thugs who attacked the building now behind bars, according to the US DOJ.

As of 2100 PST 1/21/2021, the entire House Democratic caucus (215+) have signaled they will vote to impeach the President along with (as it stands currently) 5 members of the Republican caucus; that list, as of right now, includes: Rep. Cheney of WY, Rep. Kinzinger of IL, Rep. Katko of NY, Rep. Upton of MI, and Rep. Herrera Beutler of WA. This list is expected to grow. This will make Donald J. Trump the first President in U.S. history to be impeached twice while in office.
Source: https://twitter.com/NBCPolitics/status/ ... 3800132610

Tonight the U.S. House approved a largely symbolic resolution urging Mike Pence, the would-be target of his supporters had their plot to overthrow the U.S. gov't succeeded, to use his powers as VP to remove Trump via the 25th amendment. Pence has signaled that he will not invoke this power, unless Trump does something even more sinister during his final week in office.
Source: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/12/politics ... index.html

It is not certain that Trump will be acquitted this time. Senate Majority Leader McConnell is reportedly "done" with Trump and supports the effort to impeach 45 a second time, viewing it as the only way to "rid" the party of the Trump brand. McConnell, a wise and calculating politician, would not have put out statements like this unless he knew for a fact he could bring enough of the Republicans in the Senate to convict the President.

Presumably, such a conviction would prevent Trump from ever holding Federal office again.

Perhaps, in retrospect, not the "winning" his supporters had in mind when they boarded the Trump train.

Whether the GOP ultimately votes for conviction we’ll just have to wait and see. You’re right it is telling that McConnell has no intention of putting up a fight. He knows the Fan Base will not be pleased, but he’s also watching high dollar donors bail for the exits faster than fans at a Britney Spears concert after the vocal tape broke and she had to sing herself.

There is also a group of “Anti-Trump” Republicans who are pledging $50 million for anticipated primary battles. https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/1 ... ers-458254
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:10 am

luckyone wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
Tomorrow it is expected (and certain) that Donald J. Trump, the 45th President of the United States, will be impeached following his involvement in the storming of the U.S. Capitol building by his supporters on January 6, 2021 following futile and anti-Constitutional attempts to overthrow the election of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. Over 160 Federal investigations are underway with many of the thugs who attacked the building now behind bars, according to the US DOJ.

As of 2100 PST 1/21/2021, the entire House Democratic caucus (215+) have signaled they will vote to impeach the President along with (as it stands currently) 5 members of the Republican caucus; that list, as of right now, includes: Rep. Cheney of WY, Rep. Kinzinger of IL, Rep. Katko of NY, Rep. Upton of MI, and Rep. Herrera Beutler of WA. This list is expected to grow. This will make Donald J. Trump the first President in U.S. history to be impeached twice while in office.
Source: https://twitter.com/NBCPolitics/status/ ... 3800132610

Tonight the U.S. House approved a largely symbolic resolution urging Mike Pence, the would-be target of his supporters had their plot to overthrow the U.S. gov't succeeded, to use his powers as VP to remove Trump via the 25th amendment. Pence has signaled that he will not invoke this power, unless Trump does something even more sinister during his final week in office.
Source: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/12/politics ... index.html

It is not certain that Trump will be acquitted this time. Senate Majority Leader McConnell is reportedly "done" with Trump and supports the effort to impeach 45 a second time, viewing it as the only way to "rid" the party of the Trump brand. McConnell, a wise and calculating politician, would not have put out statements like this unless he knew for a fact he could bring enough of the Republicans in the Senate to convict the President.

Presumably, such a conviction would prevent Trump from ever holding Federal office again.

Perhaps, in retrospect, not the "winning" his supporters had in mind when they boarded the Trump train.

Whether the GOP ultimately votes for conviction we’ll just have to wait and see. You’re right it is telling that McConnell has no intention of putting up a fight. He knows the Fan Base will not be pleased, but he’s also watching high dollar donors bail for the exits faster than fans at a Britney Spears concert after the vocal tape broke and she had to sing herself.

There is also a group of “Anti-Trump” Republicans who are pledging $50 million for anticipated primary battles. https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/1 ... ers-458254


He’s also on the Gang of 8 and probably knows much more about the Capitol security situation on Jan 6 than the media does.
 
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NIKV69
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:35 am

He will be impeached for sure. As for being convicted that is interesting I think one needs to remember he loses not only the chance to run again (which he isn't) but the lifetime secret service for life IIRC.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:52 am

NIKV69 wrote:
He will be impeached for sure. As for being convicted that is interesting I think one needs to remember he loses not only the chance to run again (which he isn't) but the lifetime secret service for life IIRC.


If McConnell et al have any info at all that the lax security has connections to the WH or associated rally planners, he’a definitely history.

There are several videos on YT by DC residents showing the force presence at the Capitol and mall were dramatically different from last summer’s protests.
 
AirframeAS
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:57 am

NIKV69 wrote:
He will be impeached for sure. As for being convicted that is interesting I think one needs to remember he loses not only the chance to run again (which he isn't) but the lifetime secret service for life IIRC.


Lets say he does lose the Secret Service protection for life. What would Trump then do? My guess he goes into hiding for the remainder of his life with Melania divorcing him?
 
petertenthije
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:17 am

AirframeAS wrote:
Lets say he does lose the Secret Service protection for life. What would Trump then do?
He would be looking over his shoulders for the rest of his life. A short life, probably. He pissed of a lot of people and governments that do not shy away from killing.
 
tommy1808
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:21 am

petertenthije wrote:
AirframeAS wrote:
Lets say he does lose the Secret Service protection for life. What would Trump then do?
He would be looking over his shoulders for the rest of his life. A short life, probably. He pissed of a lot of people and governments that do not shy away from killing.


he may not be a billionaire, but i think he can afford his own protection.

best regards
Thomas
 
94717
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:22 am

The biggest winner of a impeached Trump i probably GOP.

Trump 2024 would probably divide GOP to another loss.
 
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NIKV69
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:33 am

AirframeAS wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
He will be impeached for sure. As for being convicted that is interesting I think one needs to remember he loses not only the chance to run again (which he isn't) but the lifetime secret service for life IIRC.


Lets say he does lose the Secret Service protection for life. What would Trump then do? My guess he goes into hiding for the remainder of his life with Melania divorcing him?


I don't see Melania staying with him in fact I have said before I give her two days after he leaves office and she will bolt.
 
astuteman
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:02 am

olle wrote:
The biggest winner of a impeached Trump i probably GOP.

Trump 2024 would probably divide GOP to another loss.


I think that may be one of the reasons that it looks like we are seeing signs of his support within the GOP crumbling.

Politicians are definitely vultures - once the body looks like its dying, they'll pick it to bits to position themselves in the best possible place to pick up the pieces to their own advantage.
Mitch McConnel, for example, strikes me as a "survivor", if you know what I mean.

That said, if there does turn out to be enough Republican support for the impeachment to actual convict him, it will be very interesting to see how the mass of Republican voters out in society position themselves when so many have nailed their colours specifically to the "Trump" mast...

Interesting times

Rgds
 
marcelh
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:02 am

olle wrote:
The biggest winner of a impeached Trump i probably GOP.

Trump 2024 would probably divide GOP to another loss.

Concerning the GOP, Trump is already history with or without an impeachment.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:21 am

Yep. The GOP has understood that the gravy train has reached the end of the line (on fire) and it's time to get off.

Not that it will be an easy transition for the party. Trump will try to remain relevant, loud and controversial. There's nothing he fears more than oblivion. It will become a delicate balancing game between leaving Trump in the past and not pissing off his base, which still constitutes a large proportion of the overall Republican base.
I still see a high risk of division within the party between the more moderate/mainstream faction and the loyal Trump disciples.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:41 am

If the Trump fans don't like the Republicans... who are they going to vote for instead ?

If there is a credible chance of a new major party being formed or somebody like Ross Perot emerging for the 2024 campaign, the GOP needs to worry. If not, the Trump supporters will have to just make do with voting Republican instead
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:44 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
If the Trump fans don't like the Republicans... who are they going to vote for instead ?

If there is a credible chance of a new major party being formed or somebody like Ross Perot emerging for the 2024 campaign, the GOP needs to worry. If not, the Trump supporters will have to just make do with voting Republican instead


The way some of them talk online about last week’s certification, Pence, and now McConnell, it’s looking like the hardcore Trumpists are a lost cause. Various names being bandied about, MAGA party, American Patriots Party, Trump party etc. The good news is few of the hardcore supporters seem to have a talent for organizing so getting a party established looks to be a tall order at this point.
 
tommy1808
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:49 am

marcelh wrote:
olle wrote:
The biggest winner of a impeached Trump i probably GOP.

Trump 2024 would probably divide GOP to another loss.

Concerning the GOP, Trump is already history with or without an impeachment.


i am wondering when the "I never supported him" phase will begin ..

best regards
Thomas
 
art
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:39 pm

With allegations of tacit and active support for the intentions and actions of the rioters by elected GOP officials and other GOP members, I see a Capitolgate investigation needing weeks or months to conduct. During that time evidence of further treacherous malfeasance by Trump may come to light. I hope that the Senate trial will be delayed for weeks or months to give time for a thorough investigation.

I presume that US law does not only hold the president accountable for high crimes and misdemeanours but also applies to other elected officials, so I presume that they can be held accountable as well.
 
ltbewr
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:55 pm

Its too bad Trump wasn't removed in the 1st Impeachment about a year ago. We might have had far less people dead or infected by Covid-19. We might not have seen the coup attempt at the Capital. Our economy and employment rates would be far better for all. 1000's of businesses would still be around. For us here, airlines and certain model planes might still be flying.

Trump has been a cancer on this country that I hope by Impeachment and removal even his in last day of office will be a way to get that cancer into remission.
 
proest
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:58 pm

marcelh wrote:
olle wrote:
The biggest winner of a impeached Trump i probably GOP.

Trump 2024 would probably divide GOP to another loss.

Concerning the GOP, Trump is already history with or without an impeachment.


Well, the worry may be that if Trump decides to run as independent it will force the GOP more left as the traditional base will be split between the GOP and the Trump Party. For McConnel, this may be unacceptable, by banning him to run he can eliminate that issue. Kill your darlings.
 
art
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:51 pm

Re: Trump being disqualified from holding office again, I read this at https://time.com/5928562/impeachment-donald-trump-2024/

Article I Section 3 of the Constitution puts additional possible remedies in the hands of the Senate: “The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments,” the Constitution reads. “No Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.” It goes on to say that “Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States.”


Sounds to me like impeachment and conviction can or does disbar the guilty defendant from holding further office.

I note that it mentions that 2/3 of Senate members present must vote for the guilt of the defendant in order to convict. It does not say 2/3 of Senate members. Might enough GOP senators abstain to allow conviction?
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:52 pm

There is an argument that says by letting a bad actor get out of control (but not so bad the situation was long term unresolveable), it may have scared America into realising it may have made a mistake in November 2016, and perhaps influencing voters in years to come

When electing an official to a Govt role and granting them authority, one must remember that voters also have to take some level of responsibility for their choice
 
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casinterest
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:58 pm

This second impeachment is a start, but as evidenced by the other threads there are real issues out there with "Citizen's United", Religious organizations being too political, misinformation from money driven media sources, and at the root of it all is of course money.

Trump will be impeached, and while the GOP is in this nosedive it will be interesting to see how many are trying to pull the parachute and vote to impeach, or how many want to ride this flight into the ground. Money, and the promise of it, are far too important for those making these decisions.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:14 pm

proest wrote:
marcelh wrote:
olle wrote:
The biggest winner of a impeached Trump i probably GOP.

Trump 2024 would probably divide GOP to another loss.

Concerning the GOP, Trump is already history with or without an impeachment.


Well, the worry may be that if Trump decides to run as independent it will force the GOP more left as the traditional base will be split between the GOP and the Trump Party. For McConnel, this may be unacceptable, by banning him to run he can eliminate that issue. Kill your darlings.


That's a good point and probably what McConnell is aiming at.
He will try any way he can to avoid a split in the GOP, which would garantee mutual destruction. The only way to avoid that would be to kill that Trump-party embryo in the egg by impeaching Trump out of politics altogether.

This is probably the plan he will try to sell to his traditional conservative colleagues.
Siding with the democrats this one time will be forgotten by the time the next election cycle comes around in 2 years.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:46 pm

art wrote:
Re: Trump being disqualified from holding office again, I read this at https://time.com/5928562/impeachment-donald-trump-2024/

Article I Section 3 of the Constitution puts additional possible remedies in the hands of the Senate: “The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments,” the Constitution reads. “No Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.” It goes on to say that “Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States.”


Sounds to me like impeachment and conviction can or does disbar the guilty defendant from holding further office.

I note that it mentions that 2/3 of Senate members present must vote for the guilt of the defendant in order to convict. It does not say 2/3 of Senate members. Might enough GOP senators abstain to allow conviction?


No senator would abstain. Trump no longer has the ability to politically punish anyone. The knives are coming out. If Minority Leader McConnell were to support convicting Trump, a large number of Republican senators would also vote for conviction. The Senate could also by majority vote also vote to prohibit Trump from ever holding any federal office again. This means he would not be able to run for president again

McConnell furious with president, supports move to initiate impeachment proceedings: sources

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mcconn ... rts-report
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:05 pm

olle wrote:
The biggest winner of a impeached Trump i probably GOP.

Trump 2024 would probably divide GOP to another loss.

I think what we've witnessed in the past week is that the recent events will not divide the GOP at all. Even when you have folks defending the actions, they live in districts that will support them no matter what.

So with or without Trump on the ballot in 2024, the party will still march on. If they lose, it's because it's rigged; if they win, it's likely a backlash against Democrats than actually liking GOP policies.
 
WIederling
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:20 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
i am wondering when the "I never supported him" phase will begin ..


Under full steam already. Deutsche Bank would like to drop him too.
 
CometII
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:27 pm

Many Republicans in Congress have laughable logic, don't they realize how dumb they sound?

"We should not go ahead with impeachment because after all, Trump only has 7 days left in office and the American people need to heal".

Well, that's definitely not thanks to them, isn't it? If most in their side had had their way, it would be 4 more years of Trump through overturning of the electoral college. In which case their logic would be:

"We should not go ahead with impeachment because after all, Trump has 4 more years and the American people want bipartisanship."
 
94717
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:28 pm

WIederling wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
i am wondering when the "I never supported him" phase will begin ..


Under full steam already. Deutsche Bank would like to drop him too.


Noone in the GOP history has got as many votes as Mr Trump.

I can see that the Deutsche bank redraw or rather not renewal of $300 million credit line could be a start of a major problem for the Trump empire. Covid effect of office buildings value in combination with finding a new bank willing to give credit lines could force a fire sale.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:52 pm

olle wrote:
Noone in the GOP history has got as many votes as Mr Trump.


The population of the USA has steadily increased over the last 200 years. In 1920, the USA has a population of about 106 million, while it now has about 331 million. Winning 70 million votes in 2020 was much easier than winning 70 million votes in 1920. A comparison of "number of votes" is thus a poor measure of vote-winning ability
A comparison of "share of the votes" is a better measure. Amongst Republicans, Richard Nixon in 1972 gained the highest share of the popular (i.e. not electoral college) vote. Otherwise, Warren Harding in 1920 or Ronald Reagan in 1984 scored far above Trump for proportion of the popular vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... ote_margin
Last edited by davidjohnson6 on Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:59 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
olle wrote:
Noone in the GOP history has got as many votes as Mr Trump.


The population of the USA has steadily increased over the last 200 years. A comparison of "number of votes" is a poor measure of vote-winning ability
A comparison of "share of the votes" is a better measure. Amongst Republicans, Richard Nixon in 1972 gained the highest share of the popular (i.e. not electoral college) vote. Otherwise, Warren Harding in 1920 or Ronald Reagan in 1984 scored far above Trump for proportion of the popular vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... ote_margin


Thank you for pointing that out - I get so tired of spurious claims like that.
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:03 pm

AirframeAS wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
He will be impeached for sure. As for being convicted that is interesting I think one needs to remember he loses not only the chance to run again (which he isn't) but the lifetime secret service for life IIRC.


Lets say he does lose the Secret Service protection for life. What would Trump then do? My guess he goes into hiding for the remainder of his life with Melania divorcing him?



He’ll move to Russia and live happily ever after. He may just move there right away to avoid the law. Russia wouldn't extradite him.
 
luckyone
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:05 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
olle wrote:
Noone in the GOP history has got as many votes as Mr Trump.


The population of the USA has steadily increased over the last 200 years. A comparison of "number of votes" is a poor measure of vote-winning ability
A comparison of "share of the votes" is a better measure. Amongst Republicans, Richard Nixon in 1972 gained the highest share of the popular (i.e. not electoral college) vote. Otherwise, Warren Harding in 1920 or Ronald Reagan in 1984 scored far above Trump for proportion of the popular vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... ote_margin


Thank you for pointing that out - I get so tired of spurious claims like that.

And was so frequently pointed out in 2016, the popular vote numbers don't mean much in an Electoral College system. But in 2020 the number of votes Trump received MATTERS.
 
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NIKV69
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:55 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
AirframeAS wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
He will be impeached for sure. As for being convicted that is interesting I think one needs to remember he loses not only the chance to run again (which he isn't) but the lifetime secret service for life IIRC.


Lets say he does lose the Secret Service protection for life. What would Trump then do? My guess he goes into hiding for the remainder of his life with Melania divorcing him?



He’ll move to Russia and live happily ever after. He may just move there right away to avoid the law. Russia wouldn't extradite him.


Don't think he will like the climate, there are plenty other places with better weather he can go.
 
skyservice_330
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:37 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
If the Trump fans don't like the Republicans... who are they going to vote for instead ?

If there is a credible chance of a new major party being formed or somebody like Ross Perot emerging for the 2024 campaign, the GOP needs to worry. If not, the Trump supporters will have to just make do with voting Republican instead


The way some of them talk online about last week’s certification, Pence, and now McConnell, it’s looking like the hardcore Trumpists are a lost cause. Various names being bandied about, MAGA party, American Patriots Party, Trump party etc. The good news is few of the hardcore supporters seem to have a talent for organizing so getting a party established looks to be a tall order at this point.


This is similar in some ways (and different in others) to what happened to the conservative movement in Canada in the early 90's - Brian Mulroney was PM from1984 to 1993 under the Progressive Conservative Party banner through a majority made up of fiscal cons of the Wall St (or in Canada, Bay St) flavor, social conservative, Red Tories from Ontario, Bleu nationalists in Quebec and more right leaning Western Canada conservatives / reformists.

The party suffered a massive loss in the 1993 election to the Liberals and the PC party fell apart. Western cons splintered off and formed the Reform Party to form a more 'true' conservative party, the Bloc Quebecois formed in Quebec.

The Liberals ruled until 2006 - and it took the intervening years for the fractures to be repaired. A new Conservative Party of Canada formed (a merger of the Reform Party and the PC Party) and a strong Quebec strategy to win back voters in that province emerged. But it took a long time and the right leader to be able to bring back the different ideological strains together under one banner.
 
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c933103
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:42 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
olle wrote:
Noone in the GOP history has got as many votes as Mr Trump.


The population of the USA has steadily increased over the last 200 years. In 1920, the USA has a population of about 106 million, while it now has about 331 million. Winning 70 million votes in 2020 was much easier than winning 70 million votes in 1920. A comparison of "number of votes" is thus a poor measure of vote-winning ability
A comparison of "share of the votes" is a better measure. Amongst Republicans, Richard Nixon in 1972 gained the highest share of the popular (i.e. not electoral college) vote. Otherwise, Warren Harding in 1920 or Ronald Reagan in 1984 scored far above Trump for proportion of the popular vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... ote_margin

Is there any such comparison that consider also the turnout rate and regostered voter rate?
 
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c933103
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:44 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
If the Trump fans don't like the Republicans... who are they going to vote for instead ?

If there is a credible chance of a new major party being formed or somebody like Ross Perot emerging for the 2024 campaign, the GOP needs to worry. If not, the Trump supporters will have to just make do with voting Republican instead

Tea Party. It was less than a decade ago.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 16089
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:09 pm

Looks like there will be GOP support for the impeachment.
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... -01-13-21/

This will be an interesting vote.
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 2626
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:22 pm

c933103 wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
olle wrote:
Noone in the GOP history has got as many votes as Mr Trump.


The population of the USA has steadily increased over the last 200 years. In 1920, the USA has a population of about 106 million, while it now has about 331 million. Winning 70 million votes in 2020 was much easier than winning 70 million votes in 1920. A comparison of "number of votes" is thus a poor measure of vote-winning ability
A comparison of "share of the votes" is a better measure. Amongst Republicans, Richard Nixon in 1972 gained the highest share of the popular (i.e. not electoral college) vote. Otherwise, Warren Harding in 1920 or Ronald Reagan in 1984 scored far above Trump for proportion of the popular vote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... ote_margin

Is there any such comparison that consider also the turnout rate and regostered voter rate?


Amongst Republicans since 1900 who gained the largest proportion of possible votes from citizens eligible to vote - i.e. we make allowances for both population increasing and turnout varying:
1900 - William McKinley 38.1 % of eligible voters
1904 - Theodore Roosevelt 37.0 % of eligible voters
1956 - Dwight Eisenhower 34.5 % of eligible voters
1952 - Dwight Eisenhower 34.4 % of eligible voters
1972 - Richard Nixon 34.1 % of eligible voters
1908 - William Taft 33.9 % of eligible voters
1928 - Herbert Hoover 33.1 % of eligible voters
1984 - Ronald Reagan 32.4 % of eligible voters
2004 - George W Bush 30.5% of eligible voters

2016 - Donald Trump 27.7 % of eligible voters

2020 - Joe Biden 34.2% of eligible voters
2020 - Donald Trump 31.3 % of eligible voters

Turnout in 2020 was 66.7 % of those eligible to vote. The last time it was anywhere near this high was in 1908 when 65.7 % of people voted
 
Kno
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:27 pm

CometII wrote:
Many Republicans in Congress have laughable logic, don't they realize how dumb they sound?

"We should not go ahead with impeachment because after all, Trump only has 7 days left in office and the American people need to heal".

Well, that's definitely not thanks to them, isn't it? If most in their side had had their way, it would be 4 more years of Trump through overturning of the electoral college. In which case their logic would be:

"We should not go ahead with impeachment because after all, Trump has 4 more years and the American people want bipartisanship."


It's really sad to watch
 
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casinterest
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:52 pm

Kno wrote:
CometII wrote:
Many Republicans in Congress have laughable logic, don't they realize how dumb they sound?

"We should not go ahead with impeachment because after all, Trump only has 7 days left in office and the American people need to heal".

Well, that's definitely not thanks to them, isn't it? If most in their side had had their way, it would be 4 more years of Trump through overturning of the electoral college. In which case their logic would be:

"We should not go ahead with impeachment because after all, Trump has 4 more years and the American people want bipartisanship."


It's really sad to watch



The latest one I see that brings frustration are the ones saying, yes it was impeachable, but we have issues with the articles of impeachment, or let's just move on.
 
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casinterest
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:24 pm

Trump has just been impeached for the 2nd time per live feed. The official notice will follow soon.

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... 6bdd0da01c
 
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ArcticSEA
Topic Author
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:39 pm

Republicans voting for impeachment
• Liz Cheney
• Anthony Gonzalez
• Jaime Herrera Beutler
• John Katko
• Adam Kinzinger
• Peter Meijer
• Dan Newhouse
• Tom Rice
• Fred Upton
• David Valadao
https://twitter.com/business/status/134 ... 03778?s=21
 
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CitizenJustin
Posts: 986
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:12 am

Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:50 pm

It’s difficult to reconcile my love for family members who’ve said the attempted coup is the fault of democrats. No one made these people kill two police officers. No one made a mob breach the capitol. These are adults and only they decided the outcome of January 6. It’s sickening to me that certain people are absolving all responsibility for murderous thugs and pro-Nazis wearing Auschwitz shirts. Apparently, actions no longer have consequences if it’s your tribe. I know a lot of people are in the same boat as I am. It’s very difficult when the people you love are traitors in my opinion.
 
davidjohnson6
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:16 pm

Justin - take a deep breath, and just accept that they have different opinions. They're your family, differing viewpoints are not a crime and they should matter to you far more than your political opinions. They will be there to support you when a politician won't
 
ltbewr
Posts: 16332
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:17 pm

This is a sad day. Trump should have never been President or the Republicans' candidate in 2016. He should have been impeached and removed from office a year ago. There might be 10's of 1000's alive today and not victims of his gross incompetency as to dealing with Covid-19, no terror coup at the Capital, There should never a need for a 2nd Impeachment. Beyond his hateful policies and rhetoric his encouraging a coup as to overthrow the election is beyond anything any President should do.
The country is under threat by his deluded supporters of violence again in DC and throughout the country. How may more will die because of him. Biden when he takes office faces terrible difficulty in carrying out his polices we need including dealing with Covid-19 as to its human and economic horrors, health care, the climate crises, and national security.
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:51 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Justin - take a deep breath, and just accept that they have different opinions. They're your family, differing viewpoints are not a crime and they should matter to you far more than your political opinions. They will be there to support you when a politician won't



Thanks for the advice David. You’ve made some great points. At the end of the day all we have is family.
 
luckyone
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:10 am

President Trump should be proud. It was the most Bipartisan Impeachment in US History. He's record setting for sure!

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ump-histo/
 
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casinterest
Posts: 16089
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:17 am

luckyone wrote:
President Trump should be proud. It was the most Bipartisan Impeachment in US History. He's record setting for sure!

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ump-histo/



It would have been higher had 140 other traitors not been trying to cover themselves and using Right Wing sources to continue to lie.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 18391
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:57 am

casinterest wrote:
luckyone wrote:
President Trump should be proud. It was the most Bipartisan Impeachment in US History. He's record setting for sure!

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ump-histo/



It would have been higher had 140 other traitors not been trying to cover themselves and using Right Wing sources to continue to lie.


Oh but didn’t you hear? The couldn’t vote yay because they feared for their safety. Glad that got called out by the rep who said we’re only asking you to show a TENTH the courage expected of the boys we send overseas.
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: 2nd Impeachment of Donald J. Trump 1/13/2020

Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:31 am

Trump instructing aides not to pay Rudy's legal fees, surprisingly literally no one
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... uxbndlbing

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