Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
ArcticSEA wrote:Tomorrow it is expected (and certain) that Donald J. Trump, the 45th President of the United States, will be impeached following his involvement in the storming of the U.S. Capitol building by his supporters on January 6, 2021 following futile and anti-Constitutional attempts to overthrow the election of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. Over 160 Federal investigations are underway with many of the thugs who attacked the building now behind bars, according to the US DOJ.
As of 2100 PST 1/21/2021, the entire House Democratic caucus (215+) have signaled they will vote to impeach the President along with (as it stands currently) 5 members of the Republican caucus; that list, as of right now, includes: Rep. Cheney of WY, Rep. Kinzinger of IL, Rep. Katko of NY, Rep. Upton of MI, and Rep. Herrera Beutler of WA. This list is expected to grow. This will make Donald J. Trump the first President in U.S. history to be impeached twice while in office.
Source: https://twitter.com/NBCPolitics/status/ ... 3800132610
Tonight the U.S. House approved a largely symbolic resolution urging Mike Pence, the would-be target of his supporters had their plot to overthrow the U.S. gov't succeeded, to use his powers as VP to remove Trump via the 25th amendment. Pence has signaled that he will not invoke this power, unless Trump does something even more sinister during his final week in office.
Source: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/12/politics ... index.html
It is not certain that Trump will be acquitted this time. Senate Majority Leader McConnell is reportedly "done" with Trump and supports the effort to impeach 45 a second time, viewing it as the only way to "rid" the party of the Trump brand. McConnell, a wise and calculating politician, would not have put out statements like this unless he knew for a fact he could bring enough of the Republicans in the Senate to convict the President.
Presumably, such a conviction would prevent Trump from ever holding Federal office again.
Perhaps, in retrospect, not the "winning" his supporters had in mind when they boarded the Trump train.
luckyone wrote:ArcticSEA wrote:Tomorrow it is expected (and certain) that Donald J. Trump, the 45th President of the United States, will be impeached following his involvement in the storming of the U.S. Capitol building by his supporters on January 6, 2021 following futile and anti-Constitutional attempts to overthrow the election of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. Over 160 Federal investigations are underway with many of the thugs who attacked the building now behind bars, according to the US DOJ.
As of 2100 PST 1/21/2021, the entire House Democratic caucus (215+) have signaled they will vote to impeach the President along with (as it stands currently) 5 members of the Republican caucus; that list, as of right now, includes: Rep. Cheney of WY, Rep. Kinzinger of IL, Rep. Katko of NY, Rep. Upton of MI, and Rep. Herrera Beutler of WA. This list is expected to grow. This will make Donald J. Trump the first President in U.S. history to be impeached twice while in office.
Source: https://twitter.com/NBCPolitics/status/ ... 3800132610
Tonight the U.S. House approved a largely symbolic resolution urging Mike Pence, the would-be target of his supporters had their plot to overthrow the U.S. gov't succeeded, to use his powers as VP to remove Trump via the 25th amendment. Pence has signaled that he will not invoke this power, unless Trump does something even more sinister during his final week in office.
Source: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/12/politics ... index.html
It is not certain that Trump will be acquitted this time. Senate Majority Leader McConnell is reportedly "done" with Trump and supports the effort to impeach 45 a second time, viewing it as the only way to "rid" the party of the Trump brand. McConnell, a wise and calculating politician, would not have put out statements like this unless he knew for a fact he could bring enough of the Republicans in the Senate to convict the President.
Presumably, such a conviction would prevent Trump from ever holding Federal office again.
Perhaps, in retrospect, not the "winning" his supporters had in mind when they boarded the Trump train.
Whether the GOP ultimately votes for conviction we’ll just have to wait and see. You’re right it is telling that McConnell has no intention of putting up a fight. He knows the Fan Base will not be pleased, but he’s also watching high dollar donors bail for the exits faster than fans at a Britney Spears concert after the vocal tape broke and she had to sing herself.
There is also a group of “Anti-Trump” Republicans who are pledging $50 million for anticipated primary battles. https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/1 ... ers-458254
NIKV69 wrote:He will be impeached for sure. As for being convicted that is interesting I think one needs to remember he loses not only the chance to run again (which he isn't) but the lifetime secret service for life IIRC.
NIKV69 wrote:He will be impeached for sure. As for being convicted that is interesting I think one needs to remember he loses not only the chance to run again (which he isn't) but the lifetime secret service for life IIRC.
AirframeAS wrote:He would be looking over his shoulders for the rest of his life. A short life, probably. He pissed of a lot of people and governments that do not shy away from killing.Lets say he does lose the Secret Service protection for life. What would Trump then do?
petertenthije wrote:AirframeAS wrote:He would be looking over his shoulders for the rest of his life. A short life, probably. He pissed of a lot of people and governments that do not shy away from killing.Lets say he does lose the Secret Service protection for life. What would Trump then do?
AirframeAS wrote:NIKV69 wrote:He will be impeached for sure. As for being convicted that is interesting I think one needs to remember he loses not only the chance to run again (which he isn't) but the lifetime secret service for life IIRC.
Lets say he does lose the Secret Service protection for life. What would Trump then do? My guess he goes into hiding for the remainder of his life with Melania divorcing him?
olle wrote:The biggest winner of a impeached Trump i probably GOP.
Trump 2024 would probably divide GOP to another loss.
olle wrote:The biggest winner of a impeached Trump i probably GOP.
Trump 2024 would probably divide GOP to another loss.
davidjohnson6 wrote:If the Trump fans don't like the Republicans... who are they going to vote for instead ?
If there is a credible chance of a new major party being formed or somebody like Ross Perot emerging for the 2024 campaign, the GOP needs to worry. If not, the Trump supporters will have to just make do with voting Republican instead
marcelh wrote:olle wrote:The biggest winner of a impeached Trump i probably GOP.
Trump 2024 would probably divide GOP to another loss.
Concerning the GOP, Trump is already history with or without an impeachment.
marcelh wrote:olle wrote:The biggest winner of a impeached Trump i probably GOP.
Trump 2024 would probably divide GOP to another loss.
Concerning the GOP, Trump is already history with or without an impeachment.
Article I Section 3 of the Constitution puts additional possible remedies in the hands of the Senate: “The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments,” the Constitution reads. “No Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.” It goes on to say that “Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States.”
proest wrote:marcelh wrote:olle wrote:The biggest winner of a impeached Trump i probably GOP.
Trump 2024 would probably divide GOP to another loss.
Concerning the GOP, Trump is already history with or without an impeachment.
Well, the worry may be that if Trump decides to run as independent it will force the GOP more left as the traditional base will be split between the GOP and the Trump Party. For McConnel, this may be unacceptable, by banning him to run he can eliminate that issue. Kill your darlings.
art wrote:Re: Trump being disqualified from holding office again, I read this at https://time.com/5928562/impeachment-donald-trump-2024/Article I Section 3 of the Constitution puts additional possible remedies in the hands of the Senate: “The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments,” the Constitution reads. “No Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.” It goes on to say that “Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States.”
Sounds to me like impeachment and conviction can or does disbar the guilty defendant from holding further office.
I note that it mentions that 2/3 of Senate members present must vote for the guilt of the defendant in order to convict. It does not say 2/3 of Senate members. Might enough GOP senators abstain to allow conviction?
McConnell furious with president, supports move to initiate impeachment proceedings: sources
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mcconn ... rts-report
olle wrote:The biggest winner of a impeached Trump i probably GOP.
Trump 2024 would probably divide GOP to another loss.
tommy1808 wrote:i am wondering when the "I never supported him" phase will begin ..
WIederling wrote:tommy1808 wrote:i am wondering when the "I never supported him" phase will begin ..
Under full steam already. Deutsche Bank would like to drop him too.
olle wrote:Noone in the GOP history has got as many votes as Mr Trump.
davidjohnson6 wrote:olle wrote:Noone in the GOP history has got as many votes as Mr Trump.
The population of the USA has steadily increased over the last 200 years. A comparison of "number of votes" is a poor measure of vote-winning ability
A comparison of "share of the votes" is a better measure. Amongst Republicans, Richard Nixon in 1972 gained the highest share of the popular (i.e. not electoral college) vote. Otherwise, Warren Harding in 1920 or Ronald Reagan in 1984 scored far above Trump for proportion of the popular vote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... ote_margin
AirframeAS wrote:NIKV69 wrote:He will be impeached for sure. As for being convicted that is interesting I think one needs to remember he loses not only the chance to run again (which he isn't) but the lifetime secret service for life IIRC.
Lets say he does lose the Secret Service protection for life. What would Trump then do? My guess he goes into hiding for the remainder of his life with Melania divorcing him?
Aaron747 wrote:davidjohnson6 wrote:olle wrote:Noone in the GOP history has got as many votes as Mr Trump.
The population of the USA has steadily increased over the last 200 years. A comparison of "number of votes" is a poor measure of vote-winning ability
A comparison of "share of the votes" is a better measure. Amongst Republicans, Richard Nixon in 1972 gained the highest share of the popular (i.e. not electoral college) vote. Otherwise, Warren Harding in 1920 or Ronald Reagan in 1984 scored far above Trump for proportion of the popular vote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... ote_margin
Thank you for pointing that out - I get so tired of spurious claims like that.
CitizenJustin wrote:AirframeAS wrote:NIKV69 wrote:He will be impeached for sure. As for being convicted that is interesting I think one needs to remember he loses not only the chance to run again (which he isn't) but the lifetime secret service for life IIRC.
Lets say he does lose the Secret Service protection for life. What would Trump then do? My guess he goes into hiding for the remainder of his life with Melania divorcing him?
He’ll move to Russia and live happily ever after. He may just move there right away to avoid the law. Russia wouldn't extradite him.
Aaron747 wrote:davidjohnson6 wrote:If the Trump fans don't like the Republicans... who are they going to vote for instead ?
If there is a credible chance of a new major party being formed or somebody like Ross Perot emerging for the 2024 campaign, the GOP needs to worry. If not, the Trump supporters will have to just make do with voting Republican instead
The way some of them talk online about last week’s certification, Pence, and now McConnell, it’s looking like the hardcore Trumpists are a lost cause. Various names being bandied about, MAGA party, American Patriots Party, Trump party etc. The good news is few of the hardcore supporters seem to have a talent for organizing so getting a party established looks to be a tall order at this point.
davidjohnson6 wrote:olle wrote:Noone in the GOP history has got as many votes as Mr Trump.
The population of the USA has steadily increased over the last 200 years. In 1920, the USA has a population of about 106 million, while it now has about 331 million. Winning 70 million votes in 2020 was much easier than winning 70 million votes in 1920. A comparison of "number of votes" is thus a poor measure of vote-winning ability
A comparison of "share of the votes" is a better measure. Amongst Republicans, Richard Nixon in 1972 gained the highest share of the popular (i.e. not electoral college) vote. Otherwise, Warren Harding in 1920 or Ronald Reagan in 1984 scored far above Trump for proportion of the popular vote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... ote_margin
davidjohnson6 wrote:If the Trump fans don't like the Republicans... who are they going to vote for instead ?
If there is a credible chance of a new major party being formed or somebody like Ross Perot emerging for the 2024 campaign, the GOP needs to worry. If not, the Trump supporters will have to just make do with voting Republican instead
c933103 wrote:davidjohnson6 wrote:olle wrote:Noone in the GOP history has got as many votes as Mr Trump.
The population of the USA has steadily increased over the last 200 years. In 1920, the USA has a population of about 106 million, while it now has about 331 million. Winning 70 million votes in 2020 was much easier than winning 70 million votes in 1920. A comparison of "number of votes" is thus a poor measure of vote-winning ability
A comparison of "share of the votes" is a better measure. Amongst Republicans, Richard Nixon in 1972 gained the highest share of the popular (i.e. not electoral college) vote. Otherwise, Warren Harding in 1920 or Ronald Reagan in 1984 scored far above Trump for proportion of the popular vote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... ote_margin
Is there any such comparison that consider also the turnout rate and regostered voter rate?
CometII wrote:Many Republicans in Congress have laughable logic, don't they realize how dumb they sound?
"We should not go ahead with impeachment because after all, Trump only has 7 days left in office and the American people need to heal".
Well, that's definitely not thanks to them, isn't it? If most in their side had had their way, it would be 4 more years of Trump through overturning of the electoral college. In which case their logic would be:
"We should not go ahead with impeachment because after all, Trump has 4 more years and the American people want bipartisanship."
Kno wrote:CometII wrote:Many Republicans in Congress have laughable logic, don't they realize how dumb they sound?
"We should not go ahead with impeachment because after all, Trump only has 7 days left in office and the American people need to heal".
Well, that's definitely not thanks to them, isn't it? If most in their side had had their way, it would be 4 more years of Trump through overturning of the electoral college. In which case their logic would be:
"We should not go ahead with impeachment because after all, Trump has 4 more years and the American people want bipartisanship."
It's really sad to watch
davidjohnson6 wrote:Justin - take a deep breath, and just accept that they have different opinions. They're your family, differing viewpoints are not a crime and they should matter to you far more than your political opinions. They will be there to support you when a politician won't
luckyone wrote:President Trump should be proud. It was the most Bipartisan Impeachment in US History. He's record setting for sure!
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ump-histo/
casinterest wrote:luckyone wrote:President Trump should be proud. It was the most Bipartisan Impeachment in US History. He's record setting for sure!
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ump-histo/
It would have been higher had 140 other traitors not been trying to cover themselves and using Right Wing sources to continue to lie.