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casinterest
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:33 pm

DL717 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
On #5 you left off “peacefully and patriotically”. Just a point of fact.


As an aside, I fail to see the patriotism in overturning a fairly decided election outcome...


Which is exactly what the left did from the day Trump was elected.



No. Flat out No. There is a difference between investigating allegations of Russian interference vs the lies told by Trump and his corrupt cronies.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
Newark727
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:41 pm

DL717 wrote:
Which is exactly what the left did from the day Trump was elected.


Everyone in this thread - everyone in the country - knows how bullshit this argument is.

Factually, there was nothing in 2016 on the level of "stop the steal." Hillary Clinton called to concede the night of! She did not demand (and in many cases receive!) the entire Democratic Party's help in overturning its outcome.

Morally, it's childish at best. If you have any integrity at all, someone else's mistake isn't license to commit that same mistake yourself.
 
meecrob
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:37 pm

DL717 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
On #5 you left off “peacefully and patriotically”. Just a point of fact.


As an aside, I fail to see the patriotism in overturning a fairly decided election outcome...


Which is exactly what the left did from the day Trump was elected.


I'm not sure you fully grasp what the word "overturn" means.

Unless you meant "the left failed to see the patriotism in overturning a fairly decided election outcome" in which case, I agree.
 
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DL717
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:48 pm

Newark727 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Which is exactly what the left did from the day Trump was elected.


Everyone in this thread - everyone in the country - knows how bullshit this argument is.

Factually, there was nothing in 2016 on the level of "stop the steal." Hillary Clinton called to concede the night of! She did not demand (and in many cases receive!) the entire Democratic Party's help in overturning its outcome.

Morally, it's childish at best. If you have any integrity at all, someone else's mistake isn't license to commit that same mistake yourself.


I suppose Hillary was confused later then:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

Talk about childish.
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
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DL717
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:51 pm

meecrob wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:

As an aside, I fail to see the patriotism in overturning a fairly decided election outcome...


Which is exactly what the left did from the day Trump was elected.


I'm not sure you fully grasp what the word "overturn" means.

Unless you meant "the left failed to see the patriotism in overturning a fairly decided election outcome" in which case, I agree.


Endless calls for impeachment starting before he even gets sworn in, false narratives, illegitimate president, stole the election. Sure. Tell me about it.

And people wonder why Trump became the ultimate troll or why people were pissed off.

The left spent four years trying to kick him out of office and undermine everything he tried to do. That qualifies as “overturn” in every sense of the word.
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:59 pm

DL717 wrote:
meecrob wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Which is exactly what the left did from the day Trump was elected.


I'm not sure you fully grasp what the word "overturn" means.

Unless you meant "the left failed to see the patriotism in overturning a fairly decided election outcome" in which case, I agree.


Endless calls for impeachment starting before he even gets sworn in, false narratives, illegitimate president, stole the election. Sure. Tell me about it.

And people wonder why Trump became the ultimate troll or why people were pissed off.


What is this, seventh grade? Mature adults have no reason to go ape over various commentators and politicians suggesting Trump was unfit or had shady overseas loans worth investigating. Par for the course.

Further, if he had any professional management skills or leadership acumen, none of the ‘overturn’ stuff you cite would have significant impact.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DL717
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:01 am

Aaron747 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
meecrob wrote:

I'm not sure you fully grasp what the word "overturn" means.

Unless you meant "the left failed to see the patriotism in overturning a fairly decided election outcome" in which case, I agree.


Endless calls for impeachment starting before he even gets sworn in, false narratives, illegitimate president, stole the election. Sure. Tell me about it.

And people wonder why Trump became the ultimate troll or why people were pissed off.


What is this, seventh grade? Mature adults have no reason to go ape over various commentators and politicians suggesting Trump was unfit or had shady overseas loans worth investigating. Par for the course.


I see. The left can say what they want without consequence. Got it.
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:02 am

DL717 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Endless calls for impeachment starting before he even gets sworn in, false narratives, illegitimate president, stole the election. Sure. Tell me about it.

And people wonder why Trump became the ultimate troll or why people were pissed off.


What is this, seventh grade? Mature adults have no reason to go ape over various commentators and politicians suggesting Trump was unfit or had shady overseas loans worth investigating. Par for the course.


I see. The left can say what they want without consequence. Got it.


Depends on what you mean by consequence. Not all of Trump’s critics were on the left - you are leaving out independents and the Never Trump conservatives.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Newark727
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:21 am

DL717 wrote:
I see. The left can say what they want without consequence. Got it.


DL717 wrote:
Endless calls for impeachment starting before he even gets sworn in, false narratives, illegitimate president, stole the election. Sure. Tell me about it.

And people wonder why Trump became the ultimate troll or why people were pissed off.

The left spent four years trying to kick him out of office and undermine everything he tried to do. That qualifies as “overturn” in every sense of the word.


DL717 wrote:
I suppose Hillary was confused later then:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

Talk about childish.


All of this is just moving the goalposts. Stop making excuses - when he couldn't find a way to get the 2020 election results thrown out, Trump refused to concede power. A Washington Post interview is nothing compared to what everyone saw on January 6th.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:23 am

Newark727 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
I see. The left can say what they want without consequence. Got it.


DL717 wrote:
Endless calls for impeachment starting before he even gets sworn in, false narratives, illegitimate president, stole the election. Sure. Tell me about it.

And people wonder why Trump became the ultimate troll or why people were pissed off.

The left spent four years trying to kick him out of office and undermine everything he tried to do. That qualifies as “overturn” in every sense of the word.


DL717 wrote:
I suppose Hillary was confused later then:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

Talk about childish.


All of this is just moving the goalposts. Stop making excuses - when he couldn't find a way to get the 2020 election results thrown out, Trump refused to concede power. A Washington Post interview is nothing compared to what everyone saw on January 6th.


That’s all it ever is - immaturity and moving of goal posts, with a side of sour grapes.
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:28 am

And here we have the trio of Senators meeting with the President's lawyers prior to their rebuttal tomorrow.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/11/politics ... index.html

Sens. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Ted Cruz of Texas and Mike Lee of Utah were spotted going into a room in the US Capitol that Trump's lawyers were using to prepare for their arguments.
Trump lawyer David Schoen said that the senators were "very friendly guys" who just wanted to make sure they were "familiar with procedure" on the eve of their rebuttal to the House impeachment managers' presentation.
When asked if it's appropriate to meet with senators during the trial, Schoen said, "Oh yeah, I think that's the practice of impeachment."


Wonder if they are giving the key arguments to try to get the GOP out of this. Seems awfully suspicious that Cruz who traitorously tried to help overthrow the election in the first place is involved at all with Trump's lawyers/
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
QF7
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:53 am

DL717 wrote:
I see. The left can say what they want without consequence. Got it.

Just as a casual observer, what consequence do you suggest would be appropriate?

How many times has Mitch McConnell contorted the facts to suit his agenda?

How many times has Chuck Schumer contorted the facts to suit his agenda?

It’s what political actors do. (Not that I approve.)

It seems to me both sides seriously diminish whatever virtue exists in their positions by spouting nonsensical arguments against their opponents which serves only to reinforce the views of their adherents.

On topic of this thread, the majority of Republicans appear to have their fingers in the air to see which way the wind is blowing in their home states. Again, it’s what politicians generally do, although not exactly profiles in courage.
QF7
 
FGITD
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:12 am

It almost seems as if the impeachment process is broken.

You have jurors who are victims, eyewitnesses, possible co-conspirators, and now get to consult with the defense.

Sure hope if I was ever on trial I'd get the same treatment as a president who tried to overthrow his own government.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:36 am

DL717 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
On #5 you left off “peacefully and patriotically”. Just a point of fact.


As an aside, I fail to see the patriotism in overturning a fairly decided election outcome...


Which is exactly what the left did from the day Trump was elected.


funny how no capital wasn´´t stormed and he wasn´t even impeached until he tried blackmailing a foreign nation into election interference with tax payers money...

Could you link us to Trumps concession speech?

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:42 pm

Ted Lieu just put the blame on the GOP if Trump does it again. Since they seem so quick to acquit, they will own this one.

In short, Lieu is worried that if Trump ran again and lost, it could result in another violent insurrection similar to Capitol attack on January 6.

"You know, I'm not afraid of Donald Trump running again in four years. I'm afraid he's going to run again and lose. Because he can do this again," Lieu said during the third day of Trump's Senate impeachment trial.


https://www.businessinsider.com/lieu-im ... ain-2021-2

Months after Election Day and weeks after Biden's inauguration, Trump has still not acknowledged that he lost the 2020 election. After the Capitol riot, Trump acknowledged Biden would be president. But Trump has not explicitly said he lost in a free and fair election.

The impeachment managers said Trump's baseless claims of mass voter fraud, general effort to overturn the 2020 election, and refusal to concede were at the heart of what caused the deadly violence at the Capitol on January 6. The riot occurred as Vice President Mike Pence and congressional lawmakers met to certify Biden's Electoral College victory. Five people, including a police officer, died.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
bennett123
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:39 pm

If/when this impeachment leads to an acquittal, presumably this will set a precedent.

Going forward, if a President of either party loses, they can try to incite riots to reverse the situation.

If this reverses the election result they are home and dry.

If they lose and the election result stands, then providing the impeachment process can be stalled post Inauguration Day, they are still home and dry.

That is a truly scary prospect.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:59 pm

bennett123 wrote:
If/when this impeachment leads to an acquittal, presumably this will set a precedent.

Going forward, if a President of either party loses, they can try to incite riots to reverse the situation.

If this reverses the election result they are home and dry.

If they lose and the election result stands, then providing the impeachment process can be stalled post Inauguration Day, they are still home and dry.

That is a truly scary prospect.



it is highly scary, and the proposition the GOP is putting forward is that they don't care what you do, as long as you can confuse them enough to accept it.

The GOP has damaged itself to obliteration if they acquit. There will be factions in the GOP outraged, and factions that will be satisfied. These two factions will fight it out for a long time coming.

Nikki Haley and the "Conservative" branch are going to have to do war with the Populist Branch that wants to abuse folks.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
ltbewr
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:26 pm

Today's 'defense' was a short one, basically 'whataboutism' of out of context comments of Democrats, anti-Trump Republicans and others, claiming 'liberals' are trying to shut up 'Conservatives', bashed Trump from the day he was elected in 2016 to today, playing the angle as the 'trial' isn't legal, is unconstitutional as Trump no longer in office and just a bunch of crap knowing Trump will be acquitted by enough Republicans anyway. Now Senator-Jurors can ask questions of the Democratic managers and defense counsel, most likely of Democrats to extract confessions that Trump was wrong and of Republicans challenging the legality of the Impeachment trial.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:04 am

Wow, reporting with GOP sources on and off the record says Trump refused on 1/6 when the House Minority Leader asked for his help with the insurrection.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/12/poli ... index.html

Speaking to the President from inside the besieged Capitol, McCarthy pressed Trump to call off his supporters and engaged in a heated disagreement about who comprised the crowd. Trump's comment about the would-be insurrectionists caring more about the election results than McCarthy did was first mentioned by Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler, a Republican from Washington state, in a town hall earlier this week, and was confirmed to CNN by Herrera Beutler and other Republicans briefed on the conversation.

"You have to look at what he did during the insurrection to confirm where his mind was at," Herrera Beutler told CNN. "That line right there demonstrates to me that either he didn't care, which is impeachable, because you cannot allow an attack on your soil, or he wanted it to happen and was OK with it, which makes me so angry."
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
ltbewr
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:38 am

I wish Trump was at the Impeachment Trial, forced to look at the acts of his terrorist supporters at the Capital, hear the testimony of Democrats and Republicans of the horrors they faced, of their, family in some cases and staff in danger of being murdered, that he failed as President to prevent and stop the terrorism that took place as the most recent disclosures as to Rep. McCarthy discussions with Trump as the terrorism took place at the Capital. Any Republican who fails to vote to convict him must face charges of being co-conspirators of the acts of terrorism with Trump, shunned by their colleagues and lose their next election to hopefully far more responsible persons.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:25 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Wow, reporting with GOP sources on and off the record says Trump refused on 1/6 when the House Minority Leader asked for his help with the insurrection.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/12/poli ... index.html

Speaking to the President from inside the besieged Capitol, McCarthy pressed Trump to call off his supporters and engaged in a heated disagreement about who comprised the crowd. Trump's comment about the would-be insurrectionists caring more about the election results than McCarthy did was first mentioned by Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler, a Republican from Washington state, in a town hall earlier this week, and was confirmed to CNN by Herrera Beutler and other Republicans briefed on the conversation.

"You have to look at what he did during the insurrection to confirm where his mind was at," Herrera Beutler told CNN. "That line right there demonstrates to me that either he didn't care, which is impeachable, because you cannot allow an attack on your soil, or he wanted it to happen and was OK with it, which makes me so angry."



What is interesting is that with all this evidence, the GOP is going to continue to infight. The vote today may surprise, but i think the real surprise will be how much the political landscape is going to shift due to the lack of law and order and justice being applied here .

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/1 ... ood-468767

"If we are going to become the majority party — which I think we will — you’ve got to accept that we’re a big tent," LaHood said, adding that Republicans in Peoria, Ill., are different than those in Florida, New York or California. "I have tried to take that philosophy and that attitude of that’s how we’ll become the majority party."



https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... p-n1257088

"The question is what direction is the party going to take," University of Chicago political science professor William Howell said of the GOP's choice between its Trump wing and its more traditional conservative roots. "If what we see is that Republicans basically across the board vote to acquit, then we conclude two things: populism will continue to maintain a grip on the party and the relevance of that distinction fades away a bit."

It is widely expected that the Senate will not convict Trump and, therefore, leave open his option to seek a comeback in 2024 — when he would be 78 on Election Day.

Regardless of whether he runs again, if Trump is acquitted, Republicans will keep their party firmly tied to a president who, according to a bipartisan House majority, incited an insurrection when a group of his followers stormed the Capitol in the deadly Jan. 6 assault. With votes far louder and more lasting than their words, they will condone a commander in chief turning to force to try to overturn the results of a legitimate election.



How can a party be a big Tent, when it has a leader that is a liar and a traitor?
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
petertenthije
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:38 pm

casinterest wrote:
How can a party be a big Tent, when it has a leader that is a liar and a traitor?
a circus tent is also a tent.

Or maybe he wants everyone to follow a d!ck like Trump, and therefor they have to pitch a tent?
The first thing to remember is always treat your kite like you treat your woman.
Get inside her five times a day and take her to heaven and back!
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luckyone
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:53 pm

“What did the President know? And when did he stop having access to information the rest of the country was watching on live TV and Twitter, including his own feed?”
 
agill
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:28 pm

bennett123 wrote:
If/when this impeachment leads to an acquittal, presumably this will set a precedent.

Going forward, if a President of either party loses, they can try to incite riots to reverse the situation.

If this reverses the election result they are home and dry.

If they lose and the election result stands, then providing the impeachment process can be stalled post Inauguration Day, they are still home and dry.

That is a truly scary prospect.


It's the strangest thing how they can make that argument. The republicans seem to be totally morally bankrupt. How can these people see themselves in the mirror.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:36 pm

agill wrote:
It's the strangest thing how they can make that argument. The republicans seem to be totally morally bankrupt. How can these people see themselves in the mirror.


The whole impeachment process is ridiculous. It has nothing to do with justice, punishment or deterrent, is purely political and the worst that can happen is the removal from office with the possibility of being barred from running again. The would be kind of OK if half the jury wasn't at risk of losing their job if they voted one way and the other half the other way. It should be a private vote at least. In the current climate, they are at real risk of harm depending on their vote, which is unacceptable.

I don't really have much time for any politicians, but most members of the current GOP seem to be off many scales.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:42 pm

Trump orbit must be shitting bricks now that we’re going to see witnesses.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
cpd
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:49 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Wow, reporting with GOP sources on and off the record says Trump refused on 1/6 when the House Minority Leader asked for his help with the insurrection.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/12/poli ... index.html

Speaking to the President from inside the besieged Capitol, McCarthy pressed Trump to call off his supporters and engaged in a heated disagreement about who comprised the crowd. Trump's comment about the would-be insurrectionists caring more about the election results than McCarthy did was first mentioned by Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler, a Republican from Washington state, in a town hall earlier this week, and was confirmed to CNN by Herrera Beutler and other Republicans briefed on the conversation.

"You have to look at what he did during the insurrection to confirm where his mind was at," Herrera Beutler told CNN. "That line right there demonstrates to me that either he didn't care, which is impeachable, because you cannot allow an attack on your soil, or he wanted it to happen and was OK with it, which makes me so angry."


Bringing in witnesses is a good thing. The republicans who are trying to get out of their responsibilities will have to face the music.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:05 pm

Nevermind, now the Dems are shirking their responsibilities :sarcastic:
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M564038
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:56 pm

Wow.
What an utterly failed state the US is.
They let him go.
We knew it was coming, because we already know how rotten the US democratic system is. But it was still surreal to see that happen. Unbeliveable.
 
bennett123
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:09 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-u ... a-56054136

Remember when he said that he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue.

Does this set a precedent for 2025?.
 
agill
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:11 pm

Haha usa today isn't really the USA of ww2.
 
Alias1024
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:53 pm

Absolutely pathetic.

43 senators put their own political futures ahead of their oath to the constitution. A sad day in American history.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
Toenga
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:13 pm

A sad verdict that seriously undermines US international standing.
Once the US could claim to be a beacon of democracy and justice with a fair bit of credibility.
Now? Nah, at the moment in the USA self interest obviously Trumps national interest. Sad.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:06 am

casinterest wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:

As an aside, I fail to see the patriotism in overturning a fairly decided election outcome...


Which is exactly what the left did from the day Trump was elected.



No. Flat out No. There is a difference between investigating allegations of Russian interference vs the lies told by Trump and his corrupt cronies.


It wasn't just investigation. There was a whole impeachment trial about it. And it was... Unfounded. It was a lie.

Other than NY and CA, Trump won the popular vote by 3 million votes in 2016. And despite them, he won the electoral college.

I think his second impeachment was well deserved. The first was not.
 
Newark727
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:24 am

LCDFlight wrote:

It wasn't just investigation. There was a whole impeachment trial about it. And it was... Unfounded. It was a lie.

Other than NY and CA, Trump won the popular vote by 3 million votes in 2016. And despite them, he won the electoral college.

I think his second impeachment was well deserved. The first was not.


On the contrary, the second impeachment trial puts the first in a different light. If we'd punished Trump's first step outside the lines to remain in power, we would not have had to deal with the second, far more serious one.

And is there any good reason to discount NY and CA, other than to give Trump a better margin of victory in 2016?
 
Alias1024
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:59 am

LCDFlight wrote:

Other than NY and CA, Trump won the popular vote by 3 million votes in 2016. And despite them, he won the electoral college.


So? Why should a Californian’s or New Yorker’s opinion matter less than any other American?
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:18 am

The acquittal of Trump in the 2nd Impeachment makes me very anger but was going to happen no matter the evidence as Republicans used the Constitution's standard of removal from office as the only remedy that could result from their vote. Trump was no longer in office therefore the Senate cannot remove someone no longer in office. Basically the trial was moot.
If there is any solace, there are several results from this proceeding. Trump will forever be in historical records as the only President to ever face Impeachment and removal proceedings 2 times in his term and connected with the terror attack at the Capital. Hopefully Trump and others around him will never be elected or re-elected. Trump could still face Federal criminal charges but it is unlikely for political reasons for the Biden Administration to ever encourage the US Justice Dept. to peruse. Trump is still facing personal financial disaster, likely made worse by the obscenity of his Presidency and the terrorist attack on the Capital connected to him. Hopefully any future President will accept election results with reason and not unreasonable like Trump. That the Republicans will clean up their own party, toss off the Trump extremists, or face losing future elections. Now with the Impeachment out of the way, maybe finally we can see Congress finalize and get the money out to stabilize our country from the horrors of the Covid-19 pandemic.
 
FGITD
Posts: 1494
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:01 am

Alias1024 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

Other than NY and CA, Trump won the popular vote by 3 million votes in 2016. And despite them, he won the electoral college.


So? Why should a Californian’s or New Yorker’s opinion matter less than any other American?


Likewise if we only count votes from states that actually contribute to the country and aren’t federally dependent, relying on other states for their own welfare, Trump loses in a landslide. Without the money brought in by especially CA and NY, there are states that would literally be too poor to function.

But yes. CA and NY are the problem!
 
luckyone
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:06 am

LCDFlight wrote:
casinterest wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Which is exactly what the left did from the day Trump was elected.



No. Flat out No. There is a difference between investigating allegations of Russian interference vs the lies told by Trump and his corrupt cronies.


It wasn't just investigation. There was a whole impeachment trial about it. And it was... Unfounded. It was a lie.

Other than NY and CA, Trump won the popular vote by 3 million votes in 2016. And despite them, he won the electoral college.

I think his second impeachment was well deserved. The first was not.

If we’re going to arbitrarily throw out the most and fourth-most populous states (CA and NY), why not throw out the second and third (TX and FL) which Trump won.
 
Newark727
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:12 am

To expand upon that, taking a victory lap, instead of showing some gratitude or (god forbid!) contrition, for Trump getting off the hook over 6 January, tells you absolutely everything you need to know about the man and his supporters. They have the contempt of half the country and the planet for a reason. They don't just tolerate a lack of character - they demand it. They have learned nothing and will absolutely continue to flout the law.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:13 am

luckyone wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
casinterest wrote:


No. Flat out No. There is a difference between investigating allegations of Russian interference vs the lies told by Trump and his corrupt cronies.


It wasn't just investigation. There was a whole impeachment trial about it. And it was... Unfounded. It was a lie.

Other than NY and CA, Trump won the popular vote by 3 million votes in 2016. And despite them, he won the electoral college.

I think his second impeachment was well deserved. The first was not.

If we’re going to arbitrarily throw out the most and fourth-most populous states (CA and NY), why not throw out the second and third (TX and FL) which Trump won.


The point is, both were fully counted in the system we have. CA and NY had their full delegations counted under the law, representing their whole populations. And still, Trump won the 2016 presidential election beyond any legitimate question (although this was heavily disputed at the time).

Loose talk about CA or NY seceding from the USA are just silly. I feel pretty sure they would lose any such military encounter with the USA.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:14 am

What I find hilarious is people spinning this as a win for Trump despite more senators voting "guilty" than not.
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Newark727
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:21 am

LCDFlight wrote:

The point is, both were fully counted in the system we have. CA and NY had their full delegations counted under the law, representing their whole populations. And still, Trump won the 2016 presidential election beyond any legitimate question (although this was heavily disputed at the time).

Loose talk about CA or NY seceding from the USA are just silly. I feel pretty sure they would lose any such military encounter with the USA.


Okay. So what? It doesn't seem to have any relevance to your original point either way - there isn't, or at any rate shouldn't be, any connection between a president's popularity, and the legitimacy of the impeachment case against them. NIxon won his elections pretty handily too, you'll remember. If the first case against Trump was bogus like you said (to be clear, I don't think it was,) it's still bogus no matter what CA and NY think about it. It's hard to understand why you brought them up.
 
cpd
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:46 am

M564038 wrote:
Wow.
What an utterly failed state the US is.
They let him go.
We knew it was coming, because we already know how rotten the US democratic system is. But it was still surreal to see that happen. Unbeliveable.


We knew it would happen because a lot of politicians are too scared of losing the privileged political life and all the benefits of the proverbial gravy train rather than doing their job properly.

The guilt of Trump was beyond doubt and a lot of them tried to wriggle out of this trial so they didn’t have to vote. That says it all.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:50 am

At the end of the day, I am thankful that Mike Pence is safe as well as Romney. Both came very close to deaths door that day. I don't hate Trump, but I think he is a true example of how easy our country is to divide.
 
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piedmontf284000
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:15 am

cpd wrote:
M564038 wrote:
Wow.
What an utterly failed state the US is.
They let him go.
We knew it was coming, because we already know how rotten the US democratic system is. But it was still surreal to see that happen. Unbeliveable.


We knew it would happen because a lot of politicians are too scared of losing the privileged political life and all the benefits of the proverbial gravy train rather than doing their job properly.

The guilt of Trump was beyond doubt and a lot of them tried to wriggle out of this trial so they didn’t have to vote. That says it all.


The same argument can be used against those that impeached him in the first place. He was a lame duck president with 10 days to go in office. What was the point? To further divide a country that is looking to move on? It would have been better to let him leave with a whimper and his tail between his legs. What did this trial accomplish? More division, giving Trump a reason to be in the limelight again, stroking his ego with not one but TWO acquittals, and keeping him the topic of discussion when we should be moving on as a unified country. Those politicians that voted for impeachment knew he would never be found guilty, but did so under the same set of standards that they are too scared of losing "the privileged political life" as you call it. They want to look like they are doing something, when in reality that something should be taking care of nation with hundreds of other issues that they should putting their collective minds together on. Instead we put on this grand political theater to appease who? The trump supporters are not going to change their minds and neither are the non-trump supporters. In the end, the reason he was acquitted was not because he was innocent but because the constitution says he can't be tried. Article 2 Section 4 exhausts the set of persons who can legitimately be impeached, tried or convicted, and a private citizen is not one of them. I was hoping to never hear from Donald Trump again. Sadly, I believe that this only empowered him and his base even further and like a bad penny he will keep showing up spewing his nonsense.
 
Newark727
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:45 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
The same argument can be used against those that impeached him in the first place. He was a lame duck president with 10 days to go in office. What was the point? To further divide a country that is looking to move on? It would have been better to let him leave with a whimper and his tail between his legs. What did this trial accomplish? More division, giving Trump a reason to be in the limelight again, stroking his ego with not one but TWO acquittals, and keeping him the topic of discussion when we should be moving on as a unified country. Those politicians that voted for impeachment knew he would never be found guilty, but did so under the same set of standards that they are too scared of losing "the privileged political life" as you call it. They want to look like they are doing something, when in reality that something should be taking care of nation with hundreds of other issues that they should putting their collective minds together on. Instead we put on this grand political theater to appease who? The trump supporters are not going to change their minds and neither are the non-trump supporters. In the end, the reason he was acquitted was not because he was innocent but because the constitution says he can't be tried. Article 2 Section 4 exhausts the set of persons who can legitimately be impeached, tried or convicted, and a private citizen is not one of them. I was hoping to never hear from Donald Trump again. Sadly, I believe that this only empowered him and his base even further and like a bad penny he will keep showing up spewing his nonsense.


It was the biggest chance we've had yet - not just for the Republican party, but for the American political system as a whole - to repudiate the amoral, anti-democratic caudillo tactics embodied by Trump. To prove that the presidency, as powerful as it is, is not above accountability. They blew it, instead deciding to ride the people who endorse such things to power in 2022. What's the worst that could possibly happen? Who else is going to seek the presidency, now that it's functionally a get-out-of-jail-free card and the primary constitutional mechanism for preventing abuse of it its powers is shown not to function?
 
Virtual737
Topic Author
Posts: 1015
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:48 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
Those politicians that voted for impeachment knew he would never be found guilty, but did so under the same set of standards that they are too scared of losing "the privileged political life" as you call it. They want to look like they are doing something, when in reality that something should be taking care of nation with hundreds of other issues that they should putting their collective minds together on. Instead we put on this grand political theater to appease who? The trump supporters are not going to change their minds and neither are the non-trump supporters.


In that case the whole of the US is a lost cause. You're comparing those that voted in the affirmative with those that voted against in one of the clearest "guilty" cases that most of us have ever seen. Then blaming the Dems for taking just a few days to do the right thing when the leader of GOP spent months doing nothing except moan.

The US deserves everything that will come its way. The problem is, the rest of the world will pay a price for that idiocy too.
 
af773atmsp
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:53 am

Well I just have another reason to never vote Republican. I sincerely hope the GOP crashes and burns. Metaphorically speaking, the GOP has been a runaway freight train carrying toxic sludge, and for four years Trump was at the controls making it go faster and there was almost no attempt to try to slow it down. Now let's see if it finally goes off the rails and the party is left with a massive wreck to clean up. Maybe then a new, smarter, and less hypocritical conservative party can come out of that wreckage. Maybe.
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cpd
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Re: Trump Impeachment "Trial" Underway

Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:10 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
They want to look like they are doing something, when in reality that something should be taking care of nation with hundreds of other issues that they should putting their collective minds together on.


In the month or however long it was since the former leader departed his position, what would you propose to fix in that time, and how do you propose to do it?

You are going to get rid of Covid completely in that time? Hundreds of other issues, okay, what hundreds of other issues and where are your plans, solutions, time frames.

af773atmsp wrote:
Now let's see if it finally goes off the rails and the party is left with a massive wreck to clean up. Maybe then a new, smarter, and less hypocritical conservative party can come out of that wreckage. Maybe.


Potentially... Might get rid of the conspiracy theory types. A sensible conservative party without the 'interesting' characters could have a strong chance.

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