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Aaron747
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GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:16 am

Soooo don’t know how many casual investors we have here but things are getting interesting. Thanks to a strange bedfellows alliance between reddit’s Wallstreetbets and two billionaire supporters, retail investors are targeting hedge funds and forcing them out of short positions with strategic squeezes.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/01/27/hed ... esday.html

Similar runs are being made on OfficeMax and other favorite shorts.

Now, hedge funds are starting to complain that they need government help to stop this. Isn’t this the market sorting itself out though? Why can’t retail investors marshal resources too? Millenials have been trading tips online for years now - it’s not like there has been zero warning this was coming.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
maverick4002
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:23 am

Alliance is a stretch. The hedge fund did there thing as ususal, betting on a company to go out and unemploy 50000 people but as long as they make money. They shorted the hell out of it (which is legal but shouldnt be) and not they left up shits creek without a paddle. To bad, so sad.
I am intersted in if the govt will step in and impose restrictions ON RETAIL.
 
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casinterest
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:29 am

I think this is the market sorting itself out. Gamestop is now ridiculously overvalued, and I expect some hedge fund owners have taken a bunch of put Options trades for the next 30 days to sort this out.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
StarAC17
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:41 am

maverick4002 wrote:
Alliance is a stretch. The hedge fund did there thing as ususal, betting on a company to go out and unemploy 50000 people but as long as they make money. They shorted the hell out of it (which is legal but shouldnt be) and not they left up shits creek without a paddle. To bad, so sad.
I am intersted in if the govt will step in and impose restrictions ON RETAIL.


So I know the markets were a little haywire today and haven't really being paying a lot of attention to financial media in past few days but I have read about this and I say its Karma.

I agree short selling should be an illegal practice, if you don't like a company don't buy it and if your in the business then don't recommend it. Borrowing shares betting that they will go down just spells corruption regardless of the risk. I have certifications in this too as I am financial advisor and I really look the chapter on short selling and say WTF, this is legal. How do they regulate Reddit and kids with Robin Hood accounts.

CNBC is losing their collective minds and I love it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ToOGrUQ7ME
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
StarAC17
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:44 am

casinterest wrote:
I think this is the market sorting itself out. Gamestop is now ridiculously overvalued, and I expect some hedge fund owners have taken a bunch of put Options trades for the next 30 days to sort this out.


The market as a whole will correct this but an overleveraged hedge fund might be taken down.

If you are asking me to choose between a videogame retailer that employs thousands and a hedge fund. I am choosing the retailer
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
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casinterest
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:53 am

StarAC17 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
I think this is the market sorting itself out. Gamestop is now ridiculously overvalued, and I expect some hedge fund owners have taken a bunch of put Options trades for the next 30 days to sort this out.


The market as a whole will correct this but an overleveraged hedge fund might be taken down.

If you are asking me to choose between a videogame retailer that employs thousands and a hedge fund. I am choosing the retailer


It's not really a choice. It is the market. Not much need to go to a gamestop anymore.
I could care less about the hedge fund managers, but the trajectory on Gamestop is not pretty in the business case sense.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
StarAC17
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:01 am

casinterest wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
I think this is the market sorting itself out. Gamestop is now ridiculously overvalued, and I expect some hedge fund owners have taken a bunch of put Options trades for the next 30 days to sort this out.


The market as a whole will correct this but an overleveraged hedge fund might be taken down.

If you are asking me to choose between a videogame retailer that employs thousands and a hedge fund. I am choosing the retailer


It's not really a choice. It is the market. Not much need to go to a gamestop anymore.
I could care less about the hedge fund managers, but the trajectory on Gamestop is not pretty in the business case sense.


Perhaps that is a valid business case and don't buy the stock if you feel that the business model is poor. Don't bet that the stock will drop and then cash out when it does.
If you do, don't cry when you lose and these shorting positions are public information. So we know the stock was being betted against.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
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Tugger
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:22 am

Its funny, I want to actually BUY and OWN the product I purchase. If I buy music I buy the CD (which nowadays often comes with a streaming copy or I can rip to the cloud) so I own it outright and not just an ephemeral "licensing right". The same with movies, and games. I really dislike and avoid whenever possible just buying a streaming version (which I have of course at times).

So I fully support retailers like GameStop that support "hard copy" items. SO I say, more power to them, but of course this craziness doesn't really help them much at all.

But I do know that the world is moving quickly to streaming only, for production costs, distribution, and to have perpetual control over their "product" and your use of it. I am hoping that something might change law-wise but knowing that industry has their hands way up the legislators... well lets just say I think "digital rights" won't improve much for the public in the future without some miracle happening.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
PPVRA
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:41 am

Short sellers beware! Learn your lesson and move on.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:55 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Now, hedge funds are starting to complain that they need government help to stop this. Isn’t this the market sorting itself out though? Why can’t retail investors marshal resources too? Millenials have been trading tips online for years now - it’s not like there has been zero warning this was coming.


I'm struggling to understand this. Is this the antithesis of "The Big Short", meaning that in this case, the hedge fund managers lost?

And is it really the market sorting itself out when the Reddit users are working in unison to artificially inflate the value?
 
Jetty
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:08 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Soooo don’t know how many casual investors we have here but things are getting interesting. Thanks to a strange bedfellows alliance between reddit’s Wallstreetbets and two billionaire supporters, retail investors are targeting hedge funds and forcing them out of short positions with strategic squeezes.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/01/27/hed ... esday.html

Similar runs are being made on OfficeMax and other favorite shorts.

Now, hedge funds are starting to complain that they need government help to stop this. Isn’t this the market sorting itself out though? Why can’t retail investors marshal resources too? Millenials have been trading tips online for years now - it’s not like there has been zero warning this was coming.

I'm in GME with a small amount. This is definitely the market sorting itself out. Even better is that if people just hold on to their shares many hedgefunds will go bankrupt. :house: If the government saves the hedge funds small shareholders will be very upset, saving Wall Street insiders would be a very bad showing of Biden & co.

Don't believe fakenews CNN that this has anything to do with Trump, they have a completely ridiculous take on this (as usual).https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/27/poli ... index.html

We like the stock! Can't stop, won't stop, Gamestop. :airplane: :airplane: :airplane:
Last edited by Jetty on Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:20 am, edited 4 times in total.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:10 am

phatfarmlines wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Now, hedge funds are starting to complain that they need government help to stop this. Isn’t this the market sorting itself out though? Why can’t retail investors marshal resources too? Millenials have been trading tips online for years now - it’s not like there has been zero warning this was coming.


I'm struggling to understand this. Is this the antithesis of "The Big Short", meaning that in this case, the hedge fund managers lost?

And is it really the market sorting itself out when the Reddit users are working in unison to artificially inflate the value?


I think the more fundamental question is: do day traders or casual traders have any less right to play the market than fund managers?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
MaverickM11
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:28 am

casinterest wrote:
I think this is the market sorting itself out. Gamestop is now ridiculously overvalued, and I expect some hedge fund owners have taken a bunch of put Options trades for the next 30 days to sort this out.

Yeah it will definitely sort itself out. I'm not entirely sure what the endgame of team reddit is, because eventually the whole thing will go pear shaped.

Aaron747 wrote:
phatfarmlines wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Now, hedge funds are starting to complain that they need government help to stop this. Isn’t this the market sorting itself out though? Why can’t retail investors marshal resources too? Millenials have been trading tips online for years now - it’s not like there has been zero warning this was coming.


I'm struggling to understand this. Is this the antithesis of "The Big Short", meaning that in this case, the hedge fund managers lost?

And is it really the market sorting itself out when the Reddit users are working in unison to artificially inflate the value?


I think the more fundamental question is: do day traders or casual traders have any less right to play the market than fund managers?

Why wouldn't they?
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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Aaron747
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:05 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
I think this is the market sorting itself out. Gamestop is now ridiculously overvalued, and I expect some hedge fund owners have taken a bunch of put Options trades for the next 30 days to sort this out.

Yeah it will definitely sort itself out. I'm not entirely sure what the endgame of team reddit is, because eventually the whole thing will go pear shaped.

Aaron747 wrote:
phatfarmlines wrote:

I'm struggling to understand this. Is this the antithesis of "The Big Short", meaning that in this case, the hedge fund managers lost?

And is it really the market sorting itself out when the Reddit users are working in unison to artificially inflate the value?


I think the more fundamental question is: do day traders or casual traders have any less right to play the market than fund managers?

Why wouldn't they?


No concrete pattern established yet but as this stuff plays out over the next few trading days, will be interesting to see if day traders' complaints about hours-long 'technical outages' at online brokerages bear fruit while funds scramble to minimize losses.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
tommy1808
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:17 am

Aaron747 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
I think this is the market sorting itself out. Gamestop is now ridiculously overvalued, and I expect some hedge fund owners have taken a bunch of put Options trades for the next 30 days to sort this out.

Yeah it will definitely sort itself out. I'm not entirely sure what the endgame of team reddit is, because eventually the whole thing will go pear shaped.

Aaron747 wrote:

I think the more fundamental question is: do day traders or casual traders have any less right to play the market than fund managers?

Why wouldn't they?


No concrete pattern established yet but as this stuff plays out over the next few trading days, will be interesting to see if day traders' complaints about hours-long 'technical outages' at online brokerages bear fruit while funds scramble to minimize losses.


Well, seems people found a way to occupy wall street that wall street doesn't laugh at. Maybe bankrupting short sellers can be a crowd hobby if legislators won't ban it. Good.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
ltbewr
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:47 am

In the end, likely GameStop and others companies involved in this crazy stock dealing will be destroyed, their stock values drop to pennies, hurt 1000's of employees of those companies and some individuates lose all their wealth. To me any stock that goes up this much this fast needs to have its trading suspended, those found manipulating gone after with significant criminal and civil penalties, much like those that use insider info.
 
Jetty
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:00 am

ltbewr wrote:
In the end, likely GameStop and others companies involved in this crazy stock dealing will be destroyed, their stock values drop to pennies, hurt 1000's of employees of those companies and some individuates lose all their wealth. To me any stock that goes up this much this fast needs to have its trading suspended, those found manipulating gone after with significant criminal and civil penalties, much like those that use insider info.

Nobody is manipulating. People are just telling each other they like the stock, not much you can do about that. :) Just as the company doesn't profit from the stock going up, they aren't bothered by having the stock go down. It has nothing to do with their finances. It's only the hedgefunds that have a problem and suffer huge losses because they were so greedy and retarded to short more than 100% of total stock. Suspending trading will only benefit those hedgefunds to the detriment of retail traders, thus a very unwise and unjustified idea. :mad:
 
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Francoflier
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:12 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Now, hedge funds are starting to complain that they need government help to stop this.


Yeah...
Funny how the Wall Street Bros are all fervently pushing for market deregulations when it suits them and suddenly demand regulations and government action when things don't go their way. :sarcastic:

Let those bastards crash and burn. Unlike a proper business like GameStop (as uncertain as their future might be), they bring zero added value to society.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
Alias1024
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:47 am

Jetty wrote:
Even better is that if people just hold on to their shares many hedgefunds will go bankrupt. :house:


The fact that you’d be happy about this is frankly disturbing. There are more people on the losing end of a hedge fund imploding than just the manager, and most of them don’t drive Ferraris. Not every hedge fund investor is a Wall Street Fat Cat. You know who invests in hedge funds?

Pension funds. You may very well be gloating about and cheering on the destruction of retirements belonging to teachers, firefighters, and police officers.

Sovereign wealth funds. How’d you like to be a tax payer and find out your state or country lost investment income it needs to fix roads or schools or hospitals because of this?

Endowment funds. That’ll suck for the students that see university tuition go up because their school lost a chunk of its endowment in this fiasco. And I’m sure the non-tenure faculty that gets laid off will take comfort that some Reddit stock pickers got a kick out of bankrupting that fund.

Retail investors. Imagine the grandparent that sold a successful business after decades of hard work. They took some of the proceeds to create a fund for their grandchildren’s education and invested it in this hedge fund. Now they’re seeing that fund go up in smoke because some people want to give an imagined Wall Street tycoon the finger.

Charitable funds and trusts. Remember Bernie Madoff’s fraud? Scores of charities lost money in that disaster. This fund is much smaller, but there will still be people doing good work in society that are hurt if this fund blows up.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
tommy1808
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:57 am

Alias1024 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
Even better is that if people just hold on to their shares many hedgefunds will go bankrupt. :house:


The fact that you’d be happy about this is frankly disturbing. There are more people on the losing end of a hedge fund imploding than just the manager, and most of them don’t drive Ferraris. Not every hedge fund investor is a Wall Street Fat Cat. You know who invests in hedge funds?

Pension funds. You may very well be gloating about and cheering on the destruction of retirements belonging to teachers, firefighters, and police officers. .


it is legal for Pension founds in the US to park their money in that kind of short sell (=high risk) investment in any significant amount? If my pension plan puts more that 1% in a single hedge fund total its managers would be looking at jail time.

If you chose to base your retirement plan on investments that can be a total loss you have to accept that there may be a total loss.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
JJJ
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:03 am

StarAC17 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
I think this is the market sorting itself out. Gamestop is now ridiculously overvalued, and I expect some hedge fund owners have taken a bunch of put Options trades for the next 30 days to sort this out.


The market as a whole will correct this but an overleveraged hedge fund might be taken down.

If you are asking me to choose between a videogame retailer that employs thousands and a hedge fund. I am choosing the retailer


And the beauty of it is, Gamestop is still very likely going to bust, and these day's moves have done nothing about the actual health of the company (as opposed to some of the investors).

I expect a lot of the people who pushed this up to also make another a lot of money in the inevitable correction.
 
Jetty
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:05 am

Alias1024 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
Even better is that if people just hold on to their shares many hedgefunds will go bankrupt. :house:


The fact that you’d be happy about this is frankly disturbing. There are more people on the losing end of a hedge fund imploding than just the manager, and most of them don’t drive Ferraris. Not every hedge fund investor is a Wall Street Fat Cat. You know who invests in hedge funds?

Pension funds. You may very well be gloating about and cheering on the destruction of retirements belonging to teachers, firefighters, and police officers.

Sovereign wealth funds. How’d you like to be a tax payer and find out your state or country lost investment income it needs to fix roads or schools or hospitals because of this?

Endowment funds. That’ll suck for the students that see university tuition go up because their school lost a chunk of its endowment in this fiasco. And I’m sure the non-tenure faculty that gets laid off will take comfort that some Reddit stock pickers got a kick out of bankrupting that fund.

Retail investors. Imagine the grandparent that sold a successful business after decades of hard work. They took some of the proceeds to create a fund for their grandchildren’s education and invested it in this hedge fund. Now they’re seeing that fund go up in smoke because some people want to give an imagined Wall Street tycoon the finger.

Charitable funds and trusts. Remember Bernie Madoff’s fraud? Scores of charities lost money in that disaster. This fund is much smaller, but there will still be people doing good work in society that are hurt if this fund blows up.

You’re forgetting that shorting stocks is a zero-sum game,
the loss for the hedgefunds is someone else his profit.

If you want these hedgefunds which are massively short to thrive the stockmarket should go down, that doesn’t do any good for the average investor. Moreover by far most retail or pension investments are long only. Long-short funds are more a billionaires game, all hedgefunds involved aren’t open to retail investors either.

What happened is that small investors have beaten some of these funds at their own game because billionaires got too greedy. Quite a stretch to spin that as being hurtful to society.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:13 am

Jetty wrote:
Alias1024 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
Even better is that if people just hold on to their shares many hedgefunds will go bankrupt. :house:


The fact that you’d be happy about this is frankly disturbing. There are more people on the losing end of a hedge fund imploding than just the manager, and most of them don’t drive Ferraris. Not every hedge fund investor is a Wall Street Fat Cat. You know who invests in hedge funds?

Pension funds. You may very well be gloating about and cheering on the destruction of retirements belonging to teachers, firefighters, and police officers.

Sovereign wealth funds. How’d you like to be a tax payer and find out your state or country lost investment income it needs to fix roads or schools or hospitals because of this?

Endowment funds. That’ll suck for the students that see university tuition go up because their school lost a chunk of its endowment in this fiasco. And I’m sure the non-tenure faculty that gets laid off will take comfort that some Reddit stock pickers got a kick out of bankrupting that fund.

Retail investors. Imagine the grandparent that sold a successful business after decades of hard work. They took some of the proceeds to create a fund for their grandchildren’s education and invested it in this hedge fund. Now they’re seeing that fund go up in smoke because some people want to give an imagined Wall Street tycoon the finger.

Charitable funds and trusts. Remember Bernie Madoff’s fraud? Scores of charities lost money in that disaster. This fund is much smaller, but there will still be people doing good work in society that are hurt if this fund blows up.

You’re forgetting that shorting stocks is a zero-sum game,
the loss for the hedgefunds is someone else his profit.

If you want these hedgefunds which are massively short to thrive the stockmarket should go down, that doesn’t do any good for the average investor. Moreover by far most retail or pension investments are long only. Long-short funds are more a billionaires game, all hedgefunds involved aren’t open to retail investors either.

What happened is that small investors have beaten some of these funds at their own game because billionaires got too greedy. Quite a stretch to spin that as being hurtful to society.


That was part of the argument Chamath was making on CNBC earlier.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aesma
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:59 am

I'm involved in crypto so I know the drill with pumping and dumping, I'm staying out of it for the most part. What I'm not liking is that these idiots (and I include short selling funds in this) are crashing many good stocks with their shenanigans, and pumping bankrupt companies, for the benefit of a few people that will time this right, and millions that will lose their shirt.

Stock markets all over the world are moved by idiots on reddit, it's insane.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Aesma
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:05 am

Jetty wrote:
Nobody is manipulating. People are just telling each other they like the stock, not much you can do about that. :)


If a lot of people are put into a frenzy buying something to "own someone" then yes there is definitely manipulation going on. You can be sure that in that crowd, a few people know exactly what they're doing, while most have no idea.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Aaron747
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:14 am

Aesma wrote:
Jetty wrote:
Nobody is manipulating. People are just telling each other they like the stock, not much you can do about that. :)


If a lot of people are put into a frenzy buying something to "own someone" then yes there is definitely manipulation going on. You can be sure that in that crowd, a few people know exactly what they're doing, while most have no idea.


Pump and dump is a problem to be sure, but 'professional investors' are not alien to influencing the market with speculative buying completely detached from earnings or actual supplies of commodities. I would note that the SEC doesn't seem to go after such things very often, but they'll certainly target a teenager who makes tens of thousands off drumming up excitement online (and have). The market would work well as an equitable meritocracy if regulators were not so often in bed with the biggest players. It really rubs people the wrong way when GS bigshots lunch with their government watchdogs. Don't optics matter to 'professionals'?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aesma
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:16 am

That's why I put the short sellers into it in my first post, to me that's a problem in itself. You don't believe in a stock, don't buy it, sell it if you have a position, and of course you can advertise that. But building big shorts, then doing "research papers" that you publish conveniently for mass effect, is asking for trouble.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
DTVG
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:50 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Alias1024 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
Even better is that if people just hold on to their shares many hedgefunds will go bankrupt. :house:


The fact that you’d be happy about this is frankly disturbing. There are more people on the losing end of a hedge fund imploding than just the manager, and most of them don’t drive Ferraris. Not every hedge fund investor is a Wall Street Fat Cat. You know who invests in hedge funds?

Pension funds. You may very well be gloating about and cheering on the destruction of retirements belonging to teachers, firefighters, and police officers. .


it is legal for Pension founds in the US to park their money in that kind of short sell (=high risk) investment in any significant amount? If my pension plan puts more that 1% in a single hedge fund total its managers would be looking at jail time.

If you chose to base your retirement plan on investments that can be a total loss you have to accept that there may be a total loss.

best regards
Thomas


Just because they take short positions, doesn't mean that the portfolio is "high risk". Reputable (!) hedge funds rarely have a total loss and generally provide a stable return that ideally doesn't correlate with the markets movement. They are thus ideal tools for diversification.
For a pension fund to miss out on this opportunity is plain stupid, that is also the reason (apart from the fact that you need a substantial minimum investment) why their primary clients are pension funds and endowments.
You should also consider that an investor rarely allocates a large portion (avg. ~10%) of his assets into hedge funds and that is spread over multiple managers.

If you go have a look at the top hedge funds and their products, you will find multiple funds that have delivered much better risk adjusted returns over the past 20 years then your typical 60/40 portfolio.
 
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Aesma
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:59 am

Well if they're "risk adjusted" then all is well surely ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tommy1808
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:12 pm

DTVG wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Alias1024 wrote:

The fact that you’d be happy about this is frankly disturbing. There are more people on the losing end of a hedge fund imploding than just the manager, and most of them don’t drive Ferraris. Not every hedge fund investor is a Wall Street Fat Cat. You know who invests in hedge funds?

Pension funds. You may very well be gloating about and cheering on the destruction of retirements belonging to teachers, firefighters, and police officers. .


it is legal for Pension founds in the US to park their money in that kind of short sell (=high risk) investment in any significant amount? If my pension plan puts more that 1% in a single hedge fund total its managers would be looking at jail time.

If you chose to base your retirement plan on investments that can be a total loss you have to accept that there may be a total loss.

best regards
Thomas


Just because they take short positions, doesn't mean that the portfolio is "high risk"..


Selling things you don´t own is always high risk.Calling someones bluff is always a fair move.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:40 pm

Just like security, perceived analytical skills of Wall Street financial analysts is a theater. Fund managers have access to nearly unlimited funds, work in a pack, have the ability to execute orders quickly than retail investor and government support. But this transaction proves they are not fallible.

80+% of retail investors lose money every day because of tricks used by institutional investors.

It is a lesson to WS not to go after any company they wish to.

As always, tech giants end up on the wrong side of the story. Let's see which side government and courts are.
All posts are just opinions.
 
Okie
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:14 pm

It seems that AAL (American Airlines) is the next most shorted stock/targeted stock by short sellers. Looks like the price is on the way up. :spin:

Okie
 
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Francoflier
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:34 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Don't optics matter to 'professionals'?


Nope, only money does. If that means openly lobbying the government to keep the system skewed in their favor at the expense of the average citizen, I can't see them having a moral problem with this, insofar as these people have any morals, which they don't.

Optics would, on the other hand, very much matter to the current administration which might not want to be seen siding with the wolves of Wall Street and against a bunch of kids on the internet right on the heels of its inauguration into a divided and bitter nation which they promised to restore fairness to...

At least one hopes.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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casinterest
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:12 pm

Excellent thread writeup on what occurred here.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1354 ... D=ref_fark

I missed out on the fact that at some point these hedge funds had Shorted 140% of available stock in GME.

That needs to be looked into.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
tommy1808
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:40 pm

casinterest wrote:
I missed out on the fact that at some point these hedge funds had Shorted 140% of available stock in GME.

That needs to be looked into.


and no matter how you twist and turn, that makes calling their bluff an absolutely sounds business decission.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Aaron747
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:45 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
I missed out on the fact that at some point these hedge funds had Shorted 140% of available stock in GME.

That needs to be looked into.


and no matter how you twist and turn, that makes calling their bluff an absolutely sounds business decission.

best regards
Thomas


And in that sense, the SEC's case against the instigators dies at the doorstep if their motive is simply 'we wanted to save a company we like'. Investors should put money into companies they like, after all.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:54 pm

So much for 'democratizing' investing - Robinhood has put stops on trading GME, AMC, NAKD, AAL, and others. That's only going to add fuel to the 'system is rigged' fire.

https://www.benzinga.com/news/21/01/193 ... and-others
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
PPVRA
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:56 pm

casinterest wrote:
Excellent thread writeup on what occurred here.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1354 ... D=ref_fark

I missed out on the fact that at some point these hedge funds had Shorted 140% of available stock in GME.

That needs to be looked into.


It was, by a bunch of guys on Reddit who then took advantage of the greed/idiocy of these hedge funds.

You can bet that these events will lead to much better self-regulation by the short-sellers themselves. And that’s a good thing.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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casinterest
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:59 pm

It is at 450 as I write this., It has spiked 30% today 455.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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Aaron747
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:16 pm

Twitter is aflutter with pissed off users reporting TDA, Etrade, Webull, and many other services are slow, unresponsive, and blocking certain tickers. Helluva interesting day already.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:26 pm

Institutions need retail investors to sell to get out this pickle. They will use any means to force the selloff.
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Aaron747
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:29 pm

Yup, the casino's closing this table because you're winning but wearing the wrong kind of shirt.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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zkojq
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:31 pm

Alias1024 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
Even better is that if people just hold on to their shares many hedgefunds will go bankrupt. :house:


The fact that you’d be happy about this is frankly disturbing. There are more people on the losing end of a hedge fund imploding than just the manager, and most of them don’t drive Ferraris. Not every hedge fund investor is a Wall Street Fat Cat. You know who invests in hedge funds?

Pension funds. You may very well be gloating about and cheering on the destruction of retirements belonging to teachers, firefighters, and police officers.

Sovereign wealth funds. How’d you like to be a tax payer and find out your state or country lost investment income it needs to fix roads or schools or hospitals because of this?

Endowment funds. That’ll suck for the students that see university tuition go up because their school lost a chunk of its endowment in this fiasco. And I’m sure the non-tenure faculty that gets laid off will take comfort that some Reddit stock pickers got a kick out of bankrupting that fund.

Retail investors. Imagine the grandparent that sold a successful business after decades of hard work. They took some of the proceeds to create a fund for their grandchildren’s education and invested it in this hedge fund. Now they’re seeing that fund go up in smoke because some people want to give an imagined Wall Street tycoon the finger.

Charitable funds and trusts. Remember Bernie Madoff’s fraud? Scores of charities lost money in that disaster. This fund is much smaller, but there will still be people doing good work in society that are hurt if this fund blows up.


Hedge Funds are de-regulated, high risk investments and Pension Funds absolutely shouldn't have any significant assets invested with them. Finance 101 teaches you that Short Selling can lose you a theoretically infinite amount of money if the price of the underlying asset goes up enough. Short sellers are the cancer of the financial world. If they have pissed away the value of some pension fund that's not the fault of the market. I wouldn't be at all sad to see them go belly up.

tommy1808 wrote:
If you chose to base your retirement plan on investments that can be a total loss you have to accept that there may be a total loss.


:checkmark: It really is a "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" kind of situation.

Aesma wrote:
If a lot of people are put into a frenzy buying something to "own someone" then yes there is definitely manipulation going on. You can be sure that in that crowd, a few people know exactly what they're doing, while most have no idea.


If people want to buy a stock and have the financial means to do so, people should be able to buy a stock. Just like any investing in the stock market - don't invest more than you can afford to lose.

Aaron747 wrote:
The market would work well as an equitable meritocracy if regulators were not so often in bed with the biggest players. It really rubs people the wrong way when GS bigshots lunch with their government watchdogs. Don't optics matter to 'professionals'?


:checkmark:

Aesma wrote:
You don't believe in a stock, don't buy it, sell it if you have a position, and of course you can advertise that.


:checkmark:

And not just stocks - you shouldn't be able to speculate on any financial instrument that you don't have a position in. Credit Default Obligations are a good example of this - in the 08 crash it was pretty clear that all kinds of financial institutions were using CDOs to place bets on companies that they had nothing whatsoever to do with.

casinterest wrote:
I missed out on the fact that at some point these hedge funds had Shorted 140% of available stock in GME.

That needs to be looked into.


That is just insane.

Aaron747 wrote:
Twitter is aflutter with pissed off users reporting TDA, Etrade, Webull, and many other services are slow, unresponsive, and blocking certain tickers. Helluva interesting day already.


Surely that's illegal? How can a broker legally stop you placing a legal bid? Obviously I've no objections to them not letting people buy those said stocks on margin, but if the customer has the money then the broker is obliged to execute the trade.
Last edited by zkojq on Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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NIKV69
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:32 pm

Gordon Gekko said it best.

“The illusion has become real, and the more real it becomes the more desperate they want it.”

https://youtu.be/QqjQxs9l5fg
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Aaron747
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:38 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Gordon Gekko said it best.

“The illusion has become real, and the more real it becomes the more desperate they want it.”

https://youtu.be/QqjQxs9l5fg


Nick promoting Oliver Stone's uberleftist commentary on soulless capitalist excess? Whoa boy. :spin:
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:40 pm

zkojq wrote:
Surely that's illegal? How can a broker legally stop you placing a legal bid? Obviously I've no objections to them not letting people buy those said stocks on margin, but if the customer has the money then the broker is obliged to execute the trade.


Apparently not if you decide some clients are more important than others. There were definitely some major calls made last night. I'd wager about ten million screenshots are being taken today in preparation for class action lawsuits.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
PHLspecial
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:49 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
And is it really the market sorting itself out when the Reddit users are working in unison to artificially inflate the value?

There is no artificial inflation. Hedge funds betted the worse gamestop does the more money they earn. For example if gme was at $10 then I thought it was going to be going down to $1 they can borrow the shares at $10 and sell gme at $1 making a $9 profit. But if gme goes up $20 they have to buy gme at $20 to cover the borrowed shares at $10. Therefore they lose $10.
It's not artificial, it's a bunch of hedge funds betting on companies failing. Which fine that's fair but they shorted gme 140% of available shares. But yet us retail traders are some hackers, foreign power or bad people according to cnbc. I like stocks
 
PHLspecial
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:51 pm

Aesma wrote:
I'm involved in crypto so I know the drill with pumping and dumping, I'm staying out of it for the most part. What I'm not liking is that these idiots (and I include short selling funds in this) are crashing many good stocks with their shenanigans, and pumping bankrupt companies, for the benefit of a few people that will time this right, and millions that will lose their shirt.

Stock markets all over the world are moved by idiots on reddit, it's insane.

It's not just Reddit pumping the markets. That money printer from the feds is still printing money all in a effort to prevent the stock market from crashing again...
Stop this reddit destroyed markets nonsense.
 
Jetty
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:04 pm

Aesma wrote:
I'm involved in crypto so I know the drill with pumping and dumping, I'm staying out of it for the most part. What I'm not liking is that these idiots (and I include short selling funds in this) are crashing many good stocks with their shenanigans, and pumping bankrupt companies, for the benefit of a few people that will time this right, and millions that will lose their shirt.

Stock markets all over the world are moved by idiots on reddit, it's insane.

Many know what they are doing. The slogan on Reddit is even: we can stay retarded longer than hedge funds can stay solvent. :D

Good stocks are crashing because hedge funds need to cover their margin calls, that’s completely on them after being 140% short on a single stock. They are bigger idiots then the people on Reddit.

Meanwhile trading in GameStop is being limited by American apps to save the hedge funds. Disgusting how CNN and other companies want to screw the small investors :irked:
 
TangoandCash
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Re: GameStop Stock Fiasco

Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:16 pm

The wolves of Wall Street don't like competition from the sheep of Main Street.

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