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tommy1808
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:48 am

proest wrote:
and UK


Vaccination rates in the UK have collapsed to just 90k/day/7-day average for some reason.

Beat regards
Thomas
 
AirbusCheerlead
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:19 pm

As I wrote in the other thread:

For Israel they vaccinated almost all eligible people. The trickle you see are probably the last 2nd doses and a few vaccine hesitants changing their mind (or/and teens turning 16).

57% fully vaccinated, and 4% with one dose gives 61% who took the vaccine. Considering that 31% (https://www.populationpyramid.net/israel/2019/)
of Israel's population is under 16 and adding about 2% for pregnant and breastfeeding women as well as people not able to take the vaccine (allergies, etc) we get 94% or only about 6% refusing to take a vaccine. Put in other words it seems Israel has about 10% of the adult population not willing to take a vaccine... (seems pretty good to me).

I believe Israel's vaccination campaign will accelerate again when Pfizer/BioNTech gets approved for those aged 12, 13, 14 and 15.

For the UK I don't think worries about vaccine hesitancy can be seen in the numbers . UK's vaccine supply is the limiting factor here. Since end of march 2nd dose have increased massively and thus much lower quantities of vaccine are available for first doses.
For example in week 8, 2.74 Mio people got a vaccine jab but only 0.19 Mio were 2nd doses. During week 14 (last week) 2.83 Mio were jabbed but 2nd doses account for 2.22 Mio. The number of first jab went down from 2.55 Mio to only 0.61 Mio
(I chose 2 weeks that had a similar number of vaccination)

Best regards and stay safe,
Jonas
 
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lightsaber
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:30 pm

AirbusCheerlead wrote:
As I wrote in the other thread:

For Israel they vaccinated almost all eligible people. The trickle you see are probably the last 2nd doses and a few vaccine hesitants changing their mind (or/and teens turning 16).

57% fully vaccinated, and 4% with one dose gives 61% who took the vaccine. Considering that 31% (https://www.populationpyramid.net/israel/2019/)
of Israel's population is under 16 and adding about 2% for pregnant and breastfeeding women as well as people not able to take the vaccine (allergies, etc) we get 94% or only about 6% refusing to take a vaccine. Put in other words it seems Israel has about 10% of the adult population not willing to take a vaccine... (seems pretty good to me).

I believe Israel's vaccination campaign will accelerate again when Pfizer/BioNTech gets approved for those aged 12, 13, 14 and 15.

For the UK I don't think worries about vaccine hesitancy can be seen in the numbers . UK's vaccine supply is the limiting factor here. Since end of march 2nd dose have increased massively and thus much lower quantities of vaccine are available for first doses.
For example in week 8, 2.74 Mio people got a vaccine jab but only 0.19 Mio were 2nd doses. During week 14 (last week) 2.83 Mio were jabbed but 2nd doses account for 2.22 Mio. The number of first jab went down from 2.55 Mio to only 0.61 Mio
(I chose 2 weeks that had a similar number of vaccination)

Best regards and stay safe,
Jonas

That is a wonderful summary. I am going to borrow your numbers to discuss vaccines! :praise:

I agree with your conclusion on numbers (I'll admit to changing my estimate of vaccine hesitant adults as I didn't realize Israel had that high of a fraction of children, ergo estimates will be off).

The UK is very supply constrained. I hope Novavax can help that issue. The next step for the UK will also be child vaccinations.

Lightsaber
 
AirbusCheerlead
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:25 pm

lightsaber wrote:
AirbusCheerlead wrote:
As I wrote in the other thread:

For Israel they vaccinated almost all eligible people. The trickle you see are probably the last 2nd doses and a few vaccine hesitants changing their mind (or/and teens turning 16).

57% fully vaccinated, and 4% with one dose gives 61% who took the vaccine. Considering that 31% (https://www.populationpyramid.net/israel/2019/)
of Israel's population is under 16 and adding about 2% for pregnant and breastfeeding women as well as people not able to take the vaccine (allergies, etc) we get 94% or only about 6% refusing to take a vaccine. Put in other words it seems Israel has about 10% of the adult population not willing to take a vaccine... (seems pretty good to me).

I believe Israel's vaccination campaign will accelerate again when Pfizer/BioNTech gets approved for those aged 12, 13, 14 and 15.

For the UK I don't think worries about vaccine hesitancy can be seen in the numbers . UK's vaccine supply is the limiting factor here. Since end of march 2nd dose have increased massively and thus much lower quantities of vaccine are available for first doses.
For example in week 8, 2.74 Mio people got a vaccine jab but only 0.19 Mio were 2nd doses. During week 14 (last week) 2.83 Mio were jabbed but 2nd doses account for 2.22 Mio. The number of first jab went down from 2.55 Mio to only 0.61 Mio
(I chose 2 weeks that had a similar number of vaccination)

Best regards and stay safe,
Jonas

That is a wonderful summary. I am going to borrow your numbers to discuss vaccines! :praise:

I agree with your conclusion on numbers (I'll admit to changing my estimate of vaccine hesitant adults as I didn't realize Israel had that high of a fraction of children, ergo estimates will be off).

The UK is very supply constrained. I hope Novavax can help that issue. The next step for the UK will also be child vaccinations.

Lightsaber


Just a little comment. Rereading my own text, I noticed that my remarks about Israel might come over as fact. But the vaccine hesitancy is my own estimation. I haven't found an article that would confirm it.

I found a Time's article from mid march noticing the slow down. While they talk about polls on vaccine hesitancy, give numbers about Arab-Israelis and Israeli Haredi Jews being less vaccinated, and give reason why remote folks are harder to vaccinate, there big population under 16 is not mentioned.
https://time.com/5947967/israel-covid-vaccine-rollout/

Also on my link to populationpyramid.net/ the population of Israel is put at 8'519'373 people, while the Internet gives over 9 Mio. How that difference impacts my numbers, I can't tell, but I think the ball park is still correct.

Hope you agree.

Best regards and stay safe,
Jonas
 
marcelh
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:01 am

The EU is not happy with AZ:

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-preparing-legal-case-against-astrazeneca-over-vaccine-shortfalls/

” AstraZeneca stoked the ire of the EU in January when it said it would not be able to offer the bloc the number of doses initially anticipated. By the end of the first quarter, the company delivered 30 million doses to EU countries, rather than the 100 million doses pledged in its EU contract. The shortages severely hampered the vaccination campaigns across EU countries.

The company has projected it would deliver roughly 70 million doses by the end of the second quarter of the year, when it was supposed to have delivered the entire 300 million doses secured in the EU contract.”
 
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seahawk
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:19 am

Maybe it was a blessing in disguise.
 
marcelh
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:55 am

seahawk wrote:
Maybe it was a blessing in disguise.

I don’t think so. Even with the age restrictions, A faster delivery of AZ would have saved more lives.
 
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seahawk
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:14 am

marcelh wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Maybe it was a blessing in disguise.

I don’t think so. Even with the age restrictions, A faster delivery of AZ would have saved more lives.


But a higher occurrence of deadly side effects would have reduced the willingness of the population to get vaccinated. In addition the protection of the AZ vaccine is lower without offering the single shot advantage of the J&J vector based vaccine.
 
AirbusCheerlead
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:39 pm

AirbusCheerlead wrote:
EU published and leaked production numbers for the factories in Europe up to 13.04.21: For EU countries 126 Mio jabs (100 Mio in arms) and 113.5 Mio jabs exported.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-tra ... ropeans_en
https://www.bloombergquint.com/amp/poli ... own-people

A few comments about the number:

I believe produced for the EU means "fill and finish" for exemple the Bloomberg piece shows exports to Switzerland at 3.1 Mio. But for Moderna the vaccine is produced by Lonza in Switzerland, the fill and finish happens in a EU plant before the jab returns to Switzerland.

I think EU exports numbers consider an export when they stamp it through, and not when the jabs are shipped or arrive at destination.

How much materials are imported, especially from the US, I have no idea and haven't found much information in the news.

In the 126 Mio jabs delivered, I think, the 2.2 Mio jabs of Sputnik V and Chinese vaccine delivered by Russia and China to Hungary are included.

Exports before 31.01.21 are not included in the numbers leaked to Bloomberg. And Covax numbers either but I don't know if there were many of those shipments.

But most interesting I thought, were the shipments to Japan:
  • up to 15 March: 4 mio
  • up to 06 April: 17 Mio (+13 Mio or 0.6 Mio/day)
  • up to 13 April: 39 Mio (+22 Mio or over 3 Mio/day)

But as of 15.04.21 Japan had given a jab to 1.5% of its population or less than 2 Mio vaccine doses.

With a population of about 125 Mio, and considering 12% are under 16, Japan has 110 Mio people to vaccinate. At 100% vaccine take up and assuming 2 jab, I get 220 Mio doses.
With the Olympic games starting in 98 days I get max 2.25 Mio jabs/day to fully vaccinate the people in Japan. Could we see a mass vaccination start in Japan just in a few days?

In this recent article I found this quote:
Taro Kono, the minister in charge of the rollout, has said 100 million doses should be stockpiled by June
https://theconversation.com/amp/japan-i ... ics-158700


Could the EU numbers suggest that there will be more vaccine available in Japan...

Well the next days and weeks will tell us...

Best regards and stay safe,
Jonas


New numbers are out (published and leaked) for the EU. Up to 19.04.21:
  • 140 Mio doses delivered to EU member states
  • 136 Mio doses exported from EU (from 31.01.21)
  • additional 34 Mio exported before February or 170 Mio since start of production.

Source:
https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-tra ... ropeans_en
https://www.bloombergquint.com/amp/poli ... me-rollout
https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2C82F2

My comments from last time still valid.

For Japan now 52 Mio or + 13 Mio last week.
Question remains: will we soon see a massive vaccination campaign in Japan for the Olympic Games, or is Japan just a distribution hub and vaccine go to final destination from there?

There is evidence of actif vaccine substance (before fill & finish) crossing the Atlantic between US and EU:
J&J to US (see articles about mishap with 15 Mio doses). AZ to EU see Politico article https://www.politico.eu/article/astraze ... ments/amp/

Also I think much of the DNA used to create the Pfizer mRNA is produced in US and shipped to EU (couldn't find any source of the DNA being produced in Europe)

Best regards and stay safe,
Jonas
 
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SQ22
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:21 pm

AirbusCheerlead wrote:
Also I think much of the DNA used to create the Pfizer mRNA is produced in US and shipped to EU (couldn't find any source of the DNA being produced in Europe)


My understanding is, at least the German facility of BioNTech in Marburg is able to produce mRNA on itw own, so at least for this plant they do not need any imports, at least after production started.

After initial production of the mRNA, it will be purified and concentrated. After completion of mRNA production, Lipid Nanoparticles (LNP) are formed by combining mRNA and a mixture of lipids. Following further purification, the newly created drug product will then be transported to a partner site for fill and finish under sterile conditions. In addition, a panel of quality tests will be performed to confirm the quality of the product prior to release.


Update on vaccine production at BioNTech’s manufacturing site in Marburg
 
tommy1808
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:50 pm

SQ22 wrote:
AirbusCheerlead wrote:
Also I think much of the DNA used to create the Pfizer mRNA is produced in US and shipped to EU (couldn't find any source of the DNA being produced in Europe)


My understanding is, at least the German facility of BioNTech in Marburg is able to produce mRNA on itw own, so at least for this plant they do not need any imports, at least after production started.

After initial production of the mRNA, it will be purified and concentrated. After completion of mRNA production, Lipid Nanoparticles (LNP) are formed by combining mRNA and a mixture of lipids. Following further purification, the newly created drug product will then be transported to a partner site for fill and finish under sterile conditions. In addition, a panel of quality tests will be performed to confirm the quality of the product prior to release.


Update on vaccine production at BioNTech’s manufacturing site in Marburg


:checkmark:
The lips are also produced locally at Evonic now, months ahead of schedule. Merck KGaA could only cover some of the demand, and things where accelerated when the UK defense secretary essentially threatend to shut down Biontech production in Europe if the EU enforces its contract with AZ.

(German) https://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehme ... 20702.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nts-to-u-k

The EU also.let a 100 million dose option with AZ expire and is preparing to take legal action.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-prep ... hortfalls/

Best regards
Thomas
 
chimborazo
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:32 am

seahawk wrote:
marcelh wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Maybe it was a blessing in disguise.

I don’t think so. Even with the age restrictions, A faster delivery of AZ would have saved more lives.


But a higher occurrence of deadly side effects would have reduced the willingness of the population to get vaccinated. In addition the protection of the AZ vaccine is lower without offering the single shot advantage of the J&J vector based vaccine.


The occurrence rate would theoretically remain the same... however the amount of cases would be more in absolute terms with higher numbers of people taking the vaccine. It’s in situations like this when people need to understand the difference between percentage and number of cases: we often see headlines stating such and such doubles risk of cancer but it turns out the data shows 2 people in a million versus 1 in a million for example. Still very low numbers but looks good for sensationalism.

Protection may be “lower” but it’s still very good:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56844220
 
tommy1808
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:55 am

chimborazo wrote:
Still very low numbers but looks good for sensationalism.


And usually without any comparison to other risks in live. A one in a million chance of dying is equivalent to driving 228km by car in Germany, or 86 miles in the US....

best regards
Thomas
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:20 am

;) I misread the title of thread as :

European Commission Vacation Strategy News and Discussion Thread
8-)
 
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seahawk
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:49 am

chimborazo wrote:
seahawk wrote:
marcelh wrote:
I don’t think so. Even with the age restrictions, A faster delivery of AZ would have saved more lives.


But a higher occurrence of deadly side effects would have reduced the willingness of the population to get vaccinated. In addition the protection of the AZ vaccine is lower without offering the single shot advantage of the J&J vector based vaccine.


The occurrence rate would theoretically remain the same... however the amount of cases would be more in absolute terms with higher numbers of people taking the vaccine. It’s in situations like this when people need to understand the difference between percentage and number of cases: we often see headlines stating such and such doubles risk of cancer but it turns out the data shows 2 people in a million versus 1 in a million for example. Still very low numbers but looks good for sensationalism.

Protection may be “lower” but it’s still very good:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56844220


Yes, but if AZ could not deliver more shots while Pfizer can, replacing AZ with Pfizer is imho an advantage.
 
astuteman
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:11 am

tommy1808 wrote:
proest wrote:
and UK


Vaccination rates in the UK have collapsed to just 90k/day/7-day average for some reason.

Beat regards
Thomas


Technically, this assertion should have been backed with a link to data, because that data would show this in not correct.
Have you picked up only the 1st dose stats?

This is the link to UK government data

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

I've watched the stats on the BBC news all this week, and they all seem to be around the 400k-500k per day range.
The government dashboard linked shows latest 7-day rates about 115k per day 1st dose, and 375k per day 2nd dose, which backs my recollection of the media published figures well
The lowest combined 7-day average since January was 309,000 on 5th April.

90k/day is put simply wrong.

Rgds
 
art
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:14 am

astuteman wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
proest wrote:
and UK


Vaccination rates in the UK have collapsed to just 90k/day/7-day average for some reason.

Beat regards
Thomas


Technically, this assertion should have been backed with a link to data, because that data would show this in not correct.
Have you picked up only the 1st dose stats?

This is the link to UK government data

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

I've watched the stats on the BBC news all this week, and they all seem to be around the 400k-500k per day range.
The government dashboard linked shows latest 7-day rates about 115k per day 1st dose, and 375k per day 2nd dose, which backs my recollection of the media published figures well
The lowest combined 7-day average since January was 309,000 on 5th April.

90k/day is put simply wrong.

Rgds


Errr... my calculations from NHS England data (ie not whole of UK) show 1st dose 7 day rolling averages as follows

Mar 25 - 399K
Apr 01 - 253K
Apr 08 - 060K
Apr 15 - 058K
Apr 22 - 091K

Data source: https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/s ... cinations/

PS So England daily first doses have dropped off a cliff. Good to hear in your earlier post that emphasis will shift from second doses to first doses over the coming 2-3 weeks.
 
astuteman
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:53 am

art wrote:
astuteman wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Vaccination rates in the UK have collapsed to just 90k/day/7-day average for some reason.

Beat regards
Thomas


Technically, this assertion should have been backed with a link to data, because that data would show this in not correct.
Have you picked up only the 1st dose stats?

This is the link to UK government data

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

I've watched the stats on the BBC news all this week, and they all seem to be around the 400k-500k per day range.
The government dashboard linked shows latest 7-day rates about 115k per day 1st dose, and 375k per day 2nd dose, which backs my recollection of the media published figures well
The lowest combined 7-day average since January was 309,000 on 5th April.

90k/day is put simply wrong.

Rgds


Errr... my calculations from NHS England data (ie not whole of UK) show 1st dose 7 day rolling averages as follows

Mar 25 - 399K
Apr 01 - 253K
Apr 08 - 060K
Apr 15 - 058K
Apr 22 - 091K

Data source: https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/s ... cinations/

PS So England daily first doses have dropped off a cliff. Good to hear in your earlier post that emphasis will shift from second doses to first doses over the coming 2-3 weeks.


Agree. That's what the stats show.

The comment I responded to said vaccination rates in the UK had dropped to a 90k/day 7-day average.
Which is not correct, either from overall rate, OR for the UK rate.
I suspect it was a genuine mistake (or misquote)

We were told the comment on the forthcoming increase in 1st jabs in good faith I think (these guys are not politicians).
But we do need to see whether it actually happens or not....

I feel that the UK approach is CLEARLY about avoiding serious illness and death, and protecting critical health resources, rather than reducing overall infection and transmission rates per se.

And in those terms specifically, in the debate of 1st vs 2nd, I think, like the AZ vs age group, in real risk terms, there is a trade-off point where the 2nd vaccine to vulnerable groups provides better overall protection to society from serious illness than a first vaccine to non-vulnerable groups..

Where the cross-over lies? Over to the actuaries and statisticians ... :).

Rgds
 
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lightsaber
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:57 pm

marcelh wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

No penalty damages here, liability risk is low.

In the US and EU? Can you please post a link?

Last I read, the EU only indemnified above an unspecified limit:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/25/astraze ... -deal.html

Neither AZ nor J&J want the continued bad publicity the EU has thrown at them.

Has the EU made bad publicity about J&J? And about AZ, you still complain about the EU for "bad publicity", but it's AZ who is to blame by overpromising and underdelivering.

1. EU must indemnify for going forward vaccinated and for AZ, this is the time for a reset in the rhetoric.


The EU (by the EMA) still approves the use of the AZ vaccine without limitations
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-ema-finds-possible-link-very-rare-cases-unusual-blood-clots-low-blood

It's the national health authority of the member states which are to blame for the restrictions

2. Both companies must create a united public relations campaign on their respective vaccines where they promise acheiveable goals instead of the current finger pointing.

For AZ is'ts way too late.
3. The EU (and every governing medical authority) must be the ones to set the guidelines and stop shrinking the guidelines. Pick who may get these two vaccines and then move forward.

The EU doesn't have the authority to do this; it's up to the member states.

The current anti-corpoeate environment has AZ having its reputation destroyed.

Wrong. AZ made a deal with the EU to deliver at least 90 million doses to the member states by the end of Q1. AZ failed miserably and destryed their reputation by themselves.

For J&J future tense. They do not want bad publicity.
I'm speaking from a forward basis. The past is the past, AZ cannot change that. J&J doesn't want what happened to AZ to happen to them. Hence the review.
No doubt AZ was short on deliveries. Upthread they're supposed to have a massive delivery in a few weeks.
But J&J must be strategic and stop the PR before it happens. There is the delivery rate and safety. Those two issues shouldn't be tied together, or maybe I'm just too much of a scientist.

When I look at daily doses of vaccine administered in the various countries, I see most vaccination rates going down:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/dail ... on~CHL~ISR
US down to 0.88 doses per hundred per day down as the J&J pause spooked people (there are now locally appointments available for mRNA). I believe the USA is hitting early vaccine hesitancy due to the spooking. :cry2: (My area is 43.4% 1st dose vaccinated and the rate is slowing: https://www.latimes.com/projects/califo ... tribution/ )
UK 0.73 doses per hundred, looks to be supply constrained
EU 0.54, plateaued with the AZ pause. I estimate it would be at 0.70 if AZ was still readily accepted
India way down at 0.16, just a huge population
Israel is running out of people certified to take the vaccine, so a mere 0.13 until the < age 16 children qualify

J&J is protecting their reputation from what AZ went through. We can agree AZ deserves condemnation for promises (contracts) not met and they'll get sued on that. But the risk on clots vs. benefit is orders of magnitude out of whack and needs to be seperate.

The EU is not going to exercise J&J options.
https://globalnews.ca/news/7776494/eu-c ... n-johnson/

So the EU is going away from adreno virus vaccines, except for possibly Sputnik V. :boggled:

So for J&J, with the EU, they should pause until they are on one page. They're not going to be selling any more, so now time to manage the optics.
EU regulators found a link to clots. But I'm betting the pause makes them much more willing to note the benefits:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... NewsSearch

Volume of vaccine and safety are two different concerns. If the vaccine is deemed unsafe, then volume does not matter.

Companies advertise for a reason. Right now, if the EU takes issue, the negative publicity is just not worth it. So a pause by J&J to get on the same page as the EU regulators makes perfect sense.

As I type this, the EU is at 20.41% first dose vaccinated. (I assume the vast majority will go back for dose 2). I really hope to see that > 70% ASAP. That is my interest in this thread. How to strategize to get herd immunity. Just as I hope the USA, Israel, UK, and others achieve that goal. For my local area, it will take vaccinating the children. Cest la vie. At 20.41%, not yet a discussion point for the EU.
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/co ... pean+Union

Lightsaber
 
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:13 pm

EC President U. von der Leyen visited the Pfizer site in Puurs, Belgium, EU.

On the occasion she praised Pfizer (as well BioNTech) as a strong and reliable partner of the EU (a snub to A-Z which is facing legal proceedings from the EU and its 27 memberstates for failing to deliver as contracted) and mentioned that thanks to reliable partners like these, the Europan vaccination campaign will speed up and there will be enough doses to vaccinate 70% of all EU adults in July. https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/ ... 2641134593

Also, the EU will likely drop A-Z and J-J as vaccine options from their toolbox as the Commission wants to focus only on advanced biotechnologies that have "proven their worth". As such, the EC has decided not to make use of a call option on some 100M doses of the less scientifically advanced "Oxford vaccine" produced by A-Z as well.
https://www.luxtimes.lu/en/european-uni ... 9236142b37
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:18 pm

I have not seen any discussion, but are the AZ/JJ clotting problems appearing mostly in menstrual women? If this is the case girls over age 12(?) may also be vulnerable to the clotting problem. Now they are wondering if it is women 18-50, but I suspect they are also wondering about 12-50. There seems to be evidence that males are far less susceptible to the clotting. It may be too difficult to say that 'girls/younger women' should use other vaccines while boys/men and all people over 55(?) whatever is available. This may be difficult public messaging that will not work - not in developing economic countries, nor obviously in the US/EU.

I suspect a big problem is how safe are the vaccines for children. For now we do not know as much as we need to. Who wants their kids to be 'lab rats'.
 
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seahawk
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:08 pm

The AZ/JJ clotting is not just clotting it is a thrombosis (with thrombocytopenia) included venous thrombosis in unusual sites such as cerebral venous sinus thrombosis and splanchnic vein thrombosis.
 
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par13del
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:38 pm

In the developing world folks die daily from medical and environmental conditions that have long been eradicated or not tolerated in the developed world, think asbestos or polluting engines / coal plants as examples.
So if one vaccine works for men and not women and it is stated as such, other than the die hard anti-vaxxer, the vaccines will be used.
In this pandemic, fortunately or unfortunately, some do not have the luxury of being too choosey, those economies that rely on open borders to survive are looking at this and are seeing a possible increase of supply from a source other than India. Over a year of lockdowns has harmed the developing world at a much greater percentage.
It does present an opportunity for the COVAX facility to jump start its deliveries.
 
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mad99
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:12 am

Dano1977 wrote:
My parents who are in their early 70's received there vaccination papers today, two minutes on the Govt website and they are booked in for there jabs tomorrow morning 2 miles from there house.

The Conservative Govt may have got a lot wrong during this pandemic which hopefully will be investigated by a public inquiry at a later date, but the Govt and NHS have got the vaccination roll out absolutely spot on.

From early purchase rights of the then still in development vaccines in great numbers to using the army for logistical support in the rollout, with at one point over 600,000 vaccinated in one day.

I believe this success will be used as a scapegoat for the previous errors made by BoJo and Co.



Completely agree
Here in Spain I don’t see myself getting a jab before winter
 
AirbusCheerlead
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:39 pm

mad99 wrote:
Completely agree
Here in Spain I don’t see myself getting a jab before winter


Why winter?
At current vaccination spead you would get a jab no later than September.
And after the increase in April, vaccine rollout will be increased again in May and again in June, hence you will get a jab by July (worst case). If you are under 18 it might take a little longer...

Best regards, and stay safe,
Jonas
 
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lightsaber
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:58 pm

AirbusCheerlead wrote:
mad99 wrote:
Completely agree
Here in Spain I don’t see myself getting a jab before winter


Why winter?
At current vaccination spead you would get a jab no later than September.
And after the increase in April, vaccine rollout will be increased again in May and again in June, hence you will get a jab by July (worst case). If you are under 18 it might take a little longer...

Best regards, and stay safe,
Jonas

I believe the other poster is referring to the reduced vaccine supply due to vaccines be scapegoated instead of used. But that is only my interpretation.

However full supply isn't required. Areas are hitting vaccine hesitance too early. Rhoo Rhoo...

Lightsaber
 
AirbusCheerlead
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:28 pm

lightsaber wrote:
AirbusCheerlead wrote:
mad99 wrote:
Completely agree
Here in Spain I don’t see myself getting a jab before winter


Why winter?
At current vaccination spead you would get a jab no later than September.
And after the increase in April, vaccine rollout will be increased again in May and again in June, hence you will get a jab by July (worst case). If you are under 18 it might take a little longer...

Best regards, and stay safe,
Jonas

I believe the other poster is referring to the reduced vaccine supply due to vaccines be scapegoated instead of used. But that is only my interpretation.

However full supply isn't required. Areas are hitting vaccine hesitance too early. Rhoo Rhoo...

Lightsaber


"scapegoated" is a really strong word. Especially considering how long the CDC paused the J&J jab compared to the EMA (I understand the CDC's time since the vaccine situation is much better in the US and the risk analysis much different)...

Vaccination hesitancy can't yet be seen in the vaccination rate in Europe. If it can be seen, it is in the rate for +80 starting to plateau. But I don't know if the leveling is due to hesitancy or lower risk groups being included in the vaccine drive...

If you allude to people refusing AZ, I think it is mostly a local thing made bigger by media eager to report something negative or a temporary situation.

In Germany over the last days on average over 200'000 people were vaccinated daily with AZ (or to put it in US relation, about 800'000 a day).
In the Netherlands the AZ stock has gone from 480'000 to 25'000 between April 5 to April 9 (or in US relation from 7.7 Mio to 0.4 Mio)...

Best regards and stay safe,
Jonas
 
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mad99
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:37 am

AirbusCheerlead wrote:
mad99 wrote:
Completely agree
Here in Spain I don’t see myself getting a jab before winter


Why winter?
At current vaccination spead you would get a jab no later than September.
And after the increase in April, vaccine rollout will be increased again in May and again in June, hence you will get a jab by July (worst case). If you are under 18 it might take a little longer...

Best regards, and stay safe,
Jonas



Spain is about 5 months into vaccines and we’re calling up +75 year olds

Do you think in in 3 months we’ll be calling up 35 year olds ?

100 to 75 is not much of the population compared to 50-40

Through in a couple of scares and it just doesn’t add up
 
AirbusCheerlead
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:39 am

mad99 wrote:
AirbusCheerlead wrote:
mad99 wrote:
Completely agree
Here in Spain I don’t see myself getting a jab before winter


Why winter?
At current vaccination spead you would get a jab no later than September.
And after the increase in April, vaccine rollout will be increased again in May and again in June, hence you will get a jab by July (worst case). If you are under 18 it might take a little longer...

Best regards, and stay safe,
Jonas



Spain is about 5 months into vaccines and we’re calling up +75 year olds

Do you think in in 3 months we’ll be calling up 35 year olds ?

100 to 75 is not much of the population compared to 50-40

Through in a couple of scares and it just doesn’t add up


I do.

EU states received about 105 Mio jabs til end of first quarter (about 5 Mio in Q4 2020 and 100 Mio Q1 2021).
In Q2 and additional 360 Mio should arrive and in the 2 first July weeks another 60 Mio. Those 525 Mio are enough to fully vaccinate 290 Mio people (with 55 Mio jabs of J&J) or close to 80% of the population over 18.

Of course those numbers are projections agreed with the pharma companies and only the next month will tell us, if they manage to deliver as planned. But the acceleration of the vaccination rate in April shows that for now, they are on track.
Also consider that in the numbers I provided, the additional 50 Mio of Pfizer/BioNTech aren't counted, leaving room for some shortfall without compromising the target. And there might even be some CureVac jabs available in June/July to help further.

While additional shortfalls would push out the target, I don't see how those shortfalls could be so bad, that they push it by more than a month or to mid August.
Furthermore, the EU is very much reliant on Pfizer/BioNTech jabs. Hence, if you want to know if the EU countries are on target, focus on news about Pfizer/BioNTech. Delivery slips from other suppliers will have much smaller effects.

Also consider that from June there should be about 30 Mio doses delivered each week to EU countries. But having about 4 (or more) weeks between the two jabs, you should be able to get your first jab in June.

From the Information I have seen until today, I believe the biggest risk for the EU mid July target, is vaccine hesitancy, followed by the ability of some members states to ramp up their vaccination drive and only than vaccine supply from the pharma companies.

Best regards and stay safe,
Jonas
 
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seahawk
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:48 pm

mad99 wrote:
AirbusCheerlead wrote:
mad99 wrote:
Completely agree
Here in Spain I don’t see myself getting a jab before winter


Why winter?
At current vaccination spead you would get a jab no later than September.
And after the increase in April, vaccine rollout will be increased again in May and again in June, hence you will get a jab by July (worst case). If you are under 18 it might take a little longer...

Best regards, and stay safe,
Jonas



Spain is about 5 months into vaccines and we’re calling up +75 year olds

Do you think in in 3 months we’ll be calling up 35 year olds ?

100 to 75 is not much of the population compared to 50-40

Through in a couple of scares and it just doesn’t add up


But delivers are not linear. They are expected to increase every month until the 4th quarter, when everybody should be done with it. And so far it seem like Biontech/Pfizer and Moderna alone will deliver enough.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:41 pm

seahawk wrote:
mad99 wrote:
AirbusCheerlead wrote:

Why winter?
At current vaccination spead you would get a jab no later than September.
And after the increase in April, vaccine rollout will be increased again in May and again in June, hence you will get a jab by July (worst case). If you are under 18 it might take a little longer...

Best regards, and stay safe,
Jonas



Spain is about 5 months into vaccines and we’re calling up +75 year olds

Do you think in in 3 months we’ll be calling up 35 year olds ?

100 to 75 is not much of the population compared to 50-40

Through in a couple of scares and it just doesn’t add up


But delivers are not linear. They are expected to increase every month until the 4th quarter, when everybody should be done with it. And so far it seem like Biontech/Pfizer and Moderna alone will deliver enough.

To reach 70% by July, which by vaccine hesitancy is getting down to 16 year olds, I do not see it looking like enough mRNA will be available. Now, this is just my opinion.

Doing numbers, Pfizer is looking at ~ 250 million more before July (4x the 1st quarter), a total 600 million in 2021:
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-relea ... -million-0

Moderna is delaying deliveries to various countries, so it doesn't seem they can ramp up much beyond promise. I know they have new facilities coming online.
https://news.yahoo.com/moderna-says-vac ... 42090.html

EU ordered another 150 million for 2021
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/1 ... ses-469274

Now 600 million in plan for 2021
But the distribution is over quite a few nations.

https://investors.modernatx.com/news-re ... May%202021.

I'm I'm guessing maybe 100 million moderna in 2q2021 for the EU (but I couldn't find a recent hard number, did I miss it)?

Of of 450 million
It looks like 20% are vaccinated (a little over 90 million)
Now some goes into 2Q supply, but we can expect about 125 million by Pfizer, perhaps 50 million by Moderna.

So with just mRNA, the EU can break 50% in 2q2021 (when added to current already vaccinated group). Getting to 70% in one month... Isn't going to happen with only mRNA. Not hugely off, but not quite there.

Lightsaber
 
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seahawk
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:12 am

Not July but 3Q/21 which would end in September.
 
marcelh
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:10 am

lightsaber wrote:
seahawk wrote:
mad99 wrote:


Spain is about 5 months into vaccines and we’re calling up +75 year olds

Do you think in in 3 months we’ll be calling up 35 year olds ?

100 to 75 is not much of the population compared to 50-40

Through in a couple of scares and it just doesn’t add up


But delivers are not linear. They are expected to increase every month until the 4th quarter, when everybody should be done with it. And so far it seem like Biontech/Pfizer and Moderna alone will deliver enough.

To reach 70% by July, which by vaccine hesitancy is getting down to 16 year olds, I do not see it looking like enough mRNA will be available. Now, this is just my opinion.

Doing numbers, Pfizer is looking at ~ 250 million more before July (4x the 1st quarter), a total 600 million in 2021:
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-relea ... -million-0

Moderna is delaying deliveries to various countries, so it doesn't seem they can ramp up much beyond promise. I know they have new facilities coming online.
https://news.yahoo.com/moderna-says-vac ... 42090.html

EU ordered another 150 million for 2021
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/1 ... ses-469274

Now 600 million in plan for 2021
But the distribution is over quite a few nations.

https://investors.modernatx.com/news-re ... May%202021.

I'm I'm guessing maybe 100 million moderna in 2q2021 for the EU (but I couldn't find a recent hard number, did I miss it)?

Of of 450 million
It looks like 20% are vaccinated (a little over 90 million)
Now some goes into 2Q supply, but we can expect about 125 million by Pfizer, perhaps 50 million by Moderna.

So with just mRNA, the EU can break 50% in 2q2021 (when added to current already vaccinated group). Getting to 70% in one month... Isn't going to happen with only mRNA. Not hugely off, but not quite there.

Lightsaber

I’ve already stated a month ago (see upthread) the goal in the Netherlands is to get everyone above 18 who wants to be vaccinated at least once by the end of Q2. That means about 75% of everyone above 18 years is vaccinated at least once, and about one third of them will be vaccinated twice. That’s just better than the current situation in the UK.
 
max999
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:36 am

https://www.politico.eu/article/von-der ... er-summer/

So the EU will open up to vaccinated American tourists. The big questions are how it will work and which EU countries will accept american tourists.

The US government has no plans to create a vaccine passport, so how the EU verify a vaccinated American?
Will the EU accept the paper card that's being handed out to Americans as proof?

I'm sure the tourism dependent EU countries will accept Americans. But what about countries like the netherlands, Germany, or Finland? Will they accept vaccinated Americans?
 
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JakubH
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:42 am

I think the concern is not necessarily whether someone was vaccinated (that's certainly an important thing to say politically) but the low underlying risk of infection in the country where passengers come from. I think the risk of anyone traveling from the US to Europe carrying the virus will be small given low community transmission levels, in addition to the vaccination requirement (even if some people go around it by providing fake documents), which will likely make it really negligible.

I think border closures between countries of similar or otherwise low transmission risk make little sense given that those are not perfect (e.g. dual citizens and residents can still travel) and most of the transmission in both the EU and US is from within the community, not from travelers, which was the case early on in the pandemic. Of course, this does not apply to high-risk regions like South Asia and South America just yet.

The less intuitive thing to work out will be reciprocity of vaccine acceptance - it would be a very unwise thing for the US not to accept vaccines not currently used in the US (e.g. AstraZeneca) as even those vaccinated with non-US vaccines are likely much less risky, aside from the underlying low risk of carrying the virus in the first place. It would convey an awful message and make people be even more stressed about which vaccine they get.

I hope that most TATL travel will restart by July 1.
 
JJJ
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:48 am

max999 wrote:
https://www.politico.eu/article/von-der-leyen-eu-set-to-let-vaccinated-us-travelers-visit-over-summer/

So the EU will open up to vaccinated American tourists. The big questions are how it will work and which EU countries will accept american tourists.

The US government has no plans to create a vaccine passport, so how the EU verify a vaccinated American?
Will the EU accept the paper card that's being handed out to Americans as proof?


IATA is working on one.

https://www.iata.org/en/programs/passenger/travel-pass/

The paper card is not much different from the WHO-approved yellow booklet. Just adding the vaccine there should work in a pinch if there's no standard by the summer season.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:21 pm

marcelh wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
seahawk wrote:

But delivers are not linear. They are expected to increase every month until the 4th quarter, when everybody should be done with it. And so far it seem like Biontech/Pfizer and Moderna alone will deliver enough.

To reach 70% by July, which by vaccine hesitancy is getting down to 16 year olds, I do not see it looking like enough mRNA will be available. Now, this is just my opinion.

Doing numbers, Pfizer is looking at ~ 250 million more before July (4x the 1st quarter), a total 600 million in 2021:
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-relea ... -million-0

Moderna is delaying deliveries to various countries, so it doesn't seem they can ramp up much beyond promise. I know they have new facilities coming online.
https://news.yahoo.com/moderna-says-vac ... 42090.html

EU ordered another 150 million for 2021
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/1 ... ses-469274

Now 600 million in plan for 2021
But the distribution is over quite a few nations.

https://investors.modernatx.com/news-re ... May%202021.

I'm I'm guessing maybe 100 million moderna in 2q2021 for the EU (but I couldn't find a recent hard number, did I miss it)?

Of of 450 million
It looks like 20% are vaccinated (a little over 90 million)
Now some goes into 2Q supply, but we can expect about 125 million by Pfizer, perhaps 50 million by Moderna.

So with just mRNA, the EU can break 50% in 2q2021 (when added to current already vaccinated group). Getting to 70% in one month... Isn't going to happen with only mRNA. Not hugely off, but not quite there.

Lightsaber

I’ve already stated a month ago (see upthread) the goal in the Netherlands is to get everyone above 18 who wants to be vaccinated at least once by the end of Q2. That means about 75% of everyone above 18 years is vaccinated at least once, and about one third of them will be vaccinated twice. That’s just better than the current situation in the UK.

The point of my post is there isn't enough mRNA supply.

That is better than the current situation in the UK. For their sake I hope NovaVax and the recent Pfizer purchase work out.

The EU is so interconnected, I'm not focusing on a state. That would be like me focusing on California (where I live). The EU is dependent on interconnected trade and tourism.

I hope the goal is met.

Lightsaber
 
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seahawk
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:41 pm

I think Q3 is possible with the mRNA solutions alone. Fall vaccination for 70%+ in July is not possible anyway, as the waiting time for the second shot with AstraZeneca (Vaxzevria) will put this into August anyway.
 
AirbusCheerlead
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:35 pm

I'm not sure why we discuss nRNA only for Europe. There is no general sign of massive refusal of AZ in EU states. And any possible problems with J&J won't be on most people's radar yet...

It is difficult to have an exact number of jabs available in each countries since numbers for deliveries are given once a week in most countries hence there is often a data lag between vaccine delivered and injected.
For Germany the numbers are actualized every Monday hence I can give accurate numbers for vaccines in stock for Monday morning (number of jabs delivered; percentage of deliveries in arms):
  • Pfizer/BioNTech 1.65 Mio (20.15 Mio; 91.8%)
  • Moderna 1.32 Mio (2.74 Mio; 51.9%)
  • AstraZeneca 1.23 Mio (6.76 Mio; 81.7%)
  • Johnson & Johnson 0.26 Mio (0.26; 0.0%)

While AZ lags behind Pfizer this is mostly due to the irregular supply from AZ. Since beginning of March both the stocks of Pfizer and AZ were kept over 1 Mio in Germany.

For J&J most countries have just started or will start soon. For exemple for France vaccination started April 23rd. But the 2 most interesting countries are Luxembourg and Poland.
Luxembourg got 2400 does for its first delivery two weeks ago and had administrated almost all doses before the FDA/CDC pause. Poland simply ignored the US pause kept vaccinating (already used 2/3 of the delivery).

@lightsaber: Moderna is expected to deliver 35 Mio doses to the EU in Q2.

Best regards and stay safe
Jonas
 
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lightsaber
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:04 pm

Seahawk,
I agree with your timeline.

What amazes me is the UK rate remains ahead of the EU.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/dail ... +Union~NLD

The EU seems to have supply. I'm a bit confused as to how the EU will achieve goals.
21.25% vaccinated 1st dose, so for goal another 48.75% *2 (two doses).
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

At the EU's prior peak of .55 doses per hundred, the hit 70% 3rd week October. So I look forward to the acceleration.

I am a cynic as for everyone (not EU specific) ramping up vaccinations as we've already discussed prior promises not meeting expectations.

There will be more waves until a reasonable herd immunity is reached. So far only Israel and possibly the UK; I consider the UK in a quasi-static immunity (it will fade quickly).

So I hope to see the EU >70% by end July.

Lightsaber
 
sabenapilot
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:14 pm

Since the question has been asked I don't know how many times here as to why the EU did not sue A-Z over its shortfall in deliveries...

Announcing on Monday its decision to take the company to court, a European Commission spokesman said a legal claim had been made as “some terms of the contract have not been respected and the company has not been in the position to come up with a reliable strategy to ensure timely delivery of missing doses". The claim was formally lodged in the Belgian courts on Friday. A first hearing before a court in Brussels will take place on Wednesday.

AstraZeneca was able to deliver only about a quarter of the expected 120m doses in the first quarter of this year. Officials in the EU’s executive branch were particularly enraged by the refusal of the company to divert doses made in two plants in the UK. AstraZeneca’s chief executive, Pascal Soriot, had claimed he was contractually obliged to provide doses made in Oxford and Staffordshire to UK residents in the first instance, although the contract with the EU mentioned both plants as potential production sites for the EU contract not having any conflicting obligations.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... shortfalls
 
marcelh
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:40 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Seahawk,
I agree with your timeline.

What amazes me is the UK rate remains ahead of the EU.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/dail ... +Union~NLD

The EU seems to have supply. I'm a bit confused as to how the EU will achieve goals.


What supply? For the last four weeks, the Netherlands received only 626k doses on average. The next three weeks we will receive 1,162k doses on average. So the really big jump ahead has to be made yet.

21.25% vaccinated 1st dose, so for goal another 48.75% *2 (two doses).
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

At the EU's prior peak of .55 doses per hundred, the hit 70% 3rd week October. So I look forward to the acceleration.

It’s just way too simple to think there won’t be an increase. It’s just laughable.

I am a cynic as for everyone (not EU specific) ramping up vaccinations as we've already discussed prior promises not meeting expectations.

The only promises not meeting expectations is the delivery of AZ...
 
marcelh
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:51 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
Since the question has been asked I don't know how many times here as to why the EU did not sue A-Z over its shortfall in deliveries...

Announcing on Monday its decision to take the company to court, a European Commission spokesman said a legal claim had been made as “some terms of the contract have not been respected and the company has not been in the position to come up with a reliable strategy to ensure timely delivery of missing doses". The claim was formally lodged in the Belgian courts on Friday. A first hearing before a court in Brussels will take place on Wednesday.

AstraZeneca was able to deliver only about a quarter of the expected 120m doses in the first quarter of this year. Officials in the EU’s executive branch were particularly enraged by the refusal of the company to divert doses made in two plants in the UK. AstraZeneca’s chief executive, Pascal Soriot, had claimed he was contractually obliged to provide doses made in Oxford and Staffordshire to UK residents in the first instance, although the contract with the EU mentioned both plants as potential production sites for the EU contract not having any conflicting obligations.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... shortfalls


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9512513/EU-sues-AstraZeneca-shortfall-Covid-vaccine-supplies.html
And the UK “alternative facts machine” is spreading it’s lies....
 
JJJ
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:06 pm

lightsaber wrote:
The EU seems to have supply.


The bottleneck is still vaccine production, and deliveries are extremely patchy.

Supply yes, but nowhere near enough.

https://www.mscbs.gob.es/profesionales/ ... 210426.pdf

Over 95% of received doses are already in arms, and vaccine campaigns have been winding down for a few days already because, as it's usually been the case, vaccines just aren't arriving in sufficient numbers.

Good to see token numbers of J&J vaccines in use, hopefully deliveries will speed up.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:28 pm

marcelh wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Since the question has been asked I don't know how many times here as to why the EU did not sue A-Z over its shortfall in deliveries...

Announcing on Monday its decision to take the company to court, a European Commission spokesman said a legal claim had been made as “some terms of the contract have not been respected and the company has not been in the position to come up with a reliable strategy to ensure timely delivery of missing doses". The claim was formally lodged in the Belgian courts on Friday. A first hearing before a court in Brussels will take place on Wednesday.

AstraZeneca was able to deliver only about a quarter of the expected 120m doses in the first quarter of this year. Officials in the EU’s executive branch were particularly enraged by the refusal of the company to divert doses made in two plants in the UK. AstraZeneca’s chief executive, Pascal Soriot, had claimed he was contractually obliged to provide doses made in Oxford and Staffordshire to UK residents in the first instance, although the contract with the EU mentioned both plants as potential production sites for the EU contract not having any conflicting obligations.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... shortfalls


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9512513/EU-sues-AstraZeneca-shortfall-Covid-vaccine-supplies.html
And the UK “alternative facts machine” is spreading it’s lies....

Meh! They f*cked up it seems. Still, if they messed up a contract and double booked production they need to decide the least worst option. Seems the commission didn’t write as good of a contract as the uk and AZ showed which they’d rather supply. From what I’ve heard the uk contract had ‘more teeth’.

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
tommy1808
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:10 am

flipdewaf wrote:
marcelh wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Since the question has been asked I don't know how many times here as to why the EU did not sue A-Z over its shortfall in deliveries...

Announcing on Monday its decision to take the company to court, a European Commission spokesman said a legal claim had been made as “some terms of the contract have not been respected and the company has not been in the position to come up with a reliable strategy to ensure timely delivery of missing doses". The claim was formally lodged in the Belgian courts on Friday. A first hearing before a court in Brussels will take place on Wednesday.

AstraZeneca was able to deliver only about a quarter of the expected 120m doses in the first quarter of this year. Officials in the EU’s executive branch were particularly enraged by the refusal of the company to divert doses made in two plants in the UK. AstraZeneca’s chief executive, Pascal Soriot, had claimed he was contractually obliged to provide doses made in Oxford and Staffordshire to UK residents in the first instance, although the contract with the EU mentioned both plants as potential production sites for the EU contract not having any conflicting obligations.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... shortfalls


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9512513/EU-sues-AstraZeneca-shortfall-Covid-vaccine-supplies.html
And the UK “alternative facts machine” is spreading it’s lies....

Meh! They f*cked up it seems. Still, if they messed up a contract and double booked production they need to decide the least worst option. Seems the commission didn’t write as good of a contract as the uk and AZ showed which they’d rather supply. From what I’ve heard the uk contract had ‘more teeth’.

Fred


Nah, the AZ management just had to decide between making two enemies, or just one and a friend.

best regards
Thomas
 
Olddog
Posts: 1653
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:39 am

Well, AZ made a choice that coud cost them a lot if, as it is rumored, they are out the vaccine buys by the EU after July.
 
marcelh
Posts: 2232
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:12 am

flipdewaf wrote:
marcelh wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Since the question has been asked I don't know how many times here as to why the EU did not sue A-Z over its shortfall in deliveries...

Announcing on Monday its decision to take the company to court, a European Commission spokesman said a legal claim had been made as “some terms of the contract have not been respected and the company has not been in the position to come up with a reliable strategy to ensure timely delivery of missing doses". The claim was formally lodged in the Belgian courts on Friday. A first hearing before a court in Brussels will take place on Wednesday.

AstraZeneca was able to deliver only about a quarter of the expected 120m doses in the first quarter of this year. Officials in the EU’s executive branch were particularly enraged by the refusal of the company to divert doses made in two plants in the UK. AstraZeneca’s chief executive, Pascal Soriot, had claimed he was contractually obliged to provide doses made in Oxford and Staffordshire to UK residents in the first instance, although the contract with the EU mentioned both plants as potential production sites for the EU contract not having any conflicting obligations.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... shortfalls


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9512513/EU-sues-AstraZeneca-shortfall-Covid-vaccine-supplies.html
And the UK “alternative facts machine” is spreading it’s lies....

Meh! They f*cked up it seems. Still, if they messed up a contract and double booked production they need to decide the least worst option. Seems the commission didn’t write as good of a contract as the uk and AZ showed which they’d rather supply. From what I’ve heard the uk contract had ‘more teeth’.

Fred
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


AZ wasn’t simply ready to deliver the vaccines the EU ordered. By the end of Q1, they were 90 million short, not an amount to be covered by what had been delivered to the UK.
 
JJJ
Posts: 4426
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:16 am

flipdewaf wrote:
marcelh wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Since the question has been asked I don't know how many times here as to why the EU did not sue A-Z over its shortfall in deliveries...

Announcing on Monday its decision to take the company to court, a European Commission spokesman said a legal claim had been made as “some terms of the contract have not been respected and the company has not been in the position to come up with a reliable strategy to ensure timely delivery of missing doses". The claim was formally lodged in the Belgian courts on Friday. A first hearing before a court in Brussels will take place on Wednesday.

AstraZeneca was able to deliver only about a quarter of the expected 120m doses in the first quarter of this year. Officials in the EU’s executive branch were particularly enraged by the refusal of the company to divert doses made in two plants in the UK. AstraZeneca’s chief executive, Pascal Soriot, had claimed he was contractually obliged to provide doses made in Oxford and Staffordshire to UK residents in the first instance, although the contract with the EU mentioned both plants as potential production sites for the EU contract not having any conflicting obligations.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... shortfalls


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9512513/EU-sues-AstraZeneca-shortfall-Covid-vaccine-supplies.html
And the UK “alternative facts machine” is spreading it’s lies....

Meh! They f*cked up it seems. Still, if they messed up a contract and double booked production they need to decide the least worst option. Seems the commission didn’t write as good of a contract as the uk and AZ showed which they’d rather supply. From what I’ve heard the uk contract had ‘more teeth’.


More like an issue between Belgian vs British law.

But remains to be seen if the penalties specified out in the British contract will actually be higher in the long run than whatever comes out of the courts. Then there's the huge cost to AZ image as a reputable supplier which has already happened no matter what the courts settle.
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 4856
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:21 am

tommy1808 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
marcelh wrote:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9512513/EU-sues-AstraZeneca-shortfall-Covid-vaccine-supplies.html
And the UK “alternative facts machine” is spreading it’s lies....

Meh! They f*cked up it seems. Still, if they messed up a contract and double booked production they need to decide the least worst option. Seems the commission didn’t write as good of a contract as the uk and AZ showed which they’d rather supply. From what I’ve heard the uk contract had ‘more teeth’.

Fred


Nah, the AZ management just had to decide between making two enemies, or just one and a friend.

best regards
Thomas

That’s exactly what I mean. Once one of the contracts was going to be broken (if indeed it was) it was a case of the least worst option, a straight business decision.

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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