Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
marcelh
Posts: 1500
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:26 am

BaconButty wrote:
"The judge ordered delivery of 80.2 million doses by 27 September 2021. To date, the Company has supplied more than 70 million doses to the European Union and will substantially exceed 80.2 million doses by the end of June 2021."
:lol:

https://www.astrazeneca.com/content/ast ... urope.html



According to the ECDC COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker, as of today (July 5th), AstraZenica has delivered 75,784,945 doses to the EU/EAA countries.

https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#distribution-tab

Another example of AZ overpromising
"...and will substantially exceed 80.2 million doses by the end of June 2021."
and underdelivering.... :shhh:
 
JJJ
Posts: 4105
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:51 am

marcelh wrote:
BaconButty wrote:
"The judge ordered delivery of 80.2 million doses by 27 September 2021. To date, the Company has supplied more than 70 million doses to the European Union and will substantially exceed 80.2 million doses by the end of June 2021."
:lol:

https://www.astrazeneca.com/content/ast ... urope.html



According to the ECDC COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker, as of today (July 5th), AstraZenica has delivered 75,784,945 doses to the EU/EAA countries.

https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#distribution-tab

Another example of AZ overpromising
"...and will substantially exceed 80.2 million doses by the end of June 2021."
and underdelivering.... :shhh:


As per a few days back, there was a significant gap in full vaccine coverage (speaking about Spain here) between the 60-69 age bracket (almost exclusively allocated to AZ) to 50-59 (which gets Pfizer, Moderna or Janssen).

By Jul 2nd, the gap was over 25 points.

Image

Source in Spanish.

https://www.eldiario.es/sociedad/grupo- ... 87546.html
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10922
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:14 pm

I thought the EU medical authorities already drove the final nail in the AZ coffin when they stated that mixing another vaccine as the second dose to AZ was proven to be more effective than 2 doses of AZ?
The ramp up of vaccines other than AZ and the increase in orders of vaccines other than AZ should now render any metrics related to AZ moot, the only two items that the EU now have in relation to AZ is the failure to deliver by diverting EU vaccines elsewhere (which is widely documented and mentioned in any post related to AZ by Europeans) and meeting the now court ordered delivery mandates.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14620
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:20 pm

par13del wrote:
I thought the EU medical authorities already drove the final nail in the AZ coffin when they stated that mixing another vaccine as the second dose to AZ was proven to be more effective than 2 doses of AZ?


The thing is it also looks like AZ + BNT/Moderna may very well be more effective than two doses of either one.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
marcelh
Posts: 1500
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:37 pm

par13del wrote:
I thought the EU medical authorities already drove the final nail in the AZ coffin when they stated that mixing another vaccine as the second dose to AZ was proven to be more effective than 2 doses of AZ?
The ramp up of vaccines other than AZ and the increase in orders of vaccines other than AZ should now render any metrics related to AZ moot, the only two items that the EU now have in relation to AZ is the failure to deliver by diverting EU vaccines elsewhere (which is widely documented and mentioned in any post related to AZ by Europeans) and meeting the now court ordered delivery mandates.


AZ is still needed to fully vaccinate (and protect) those who had their first jab with AZ. Mixing is great if you have sufficient vaccines to do so, but unfortunately in the Netherlands (and the EU) we haven’t reached that point yet. All mRNA vaccines to be delivered in the next moths will be needed to fully vaccinate a significant part of all adults <60 years old and the youngsters between 12-18. There is a significant rise in positive cases in the group 10-29 years old (Delta) so vaccinating this group ASAP is necessary.

The increase in orders has nothing to do with the deliveries; the EU is still receiving vaccines which are part of the initial orders from 2020.

Point is AZ has stated by themselves they would deliver over 80 million doses by the end of June and according to the data of the ECDC they failed (again).
 
User avatar
BaconButty
Posts: 925
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:42 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:39 pm

marcelh wrote:
BaconButty wrote:
"The judge ordered delivery of 80.2 million doses by 27 September 2021. To date, the Company has supplied more than 70 million doses to the European Union and will substantially exceed 80.2 million doses by the end of June 2021."
:lol:

https://www.astrazeneca.com/content/ast ... urope.html



According to the ECDC COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker, as of today (July 5th), AstraZenica has delivered 75,784,945 doses to the EU/EAA countries.

https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#distribution-tab

Another example of AZ overpromising
"...and will substantially exceed 80.2 million doses by the end of June 2021."
and underdelivering.... :shhh:


You need to understand the difference between allocation and delivery. It's all set out in the contract you guys seem allergic to reading. Anyway (section 8) the way it goes is this. AZ says to the participating states "hey, we've got X new vaccines that will be ready on Thursday". So the EU has what's called the "binding allocation", which is used to divide up the batch. So, say, AZ notifies France that they have 50k doses available. France then has two choices, take them, and they will be delivered the France's national distribution centre, or leave them with AZ and pay for storage, insurance etc for an undisclosed period of time. After that, they can agree to store them for a further period, or AZ can sell them wherever that want, or even destroy them.

So the 75.8m actual supply and 80.2+m available supply may well be both true, and likely are given the current circumstances with demand for AZ so low. But I've been over this before, and if you want to ignore it to make a point, what can I do.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 22673
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:09 pm

BaconButty wrote:
marcelh wrote:
BaconButty wrote:
"The judge ordered delivery of 80.2 million doses by 27 September 2021. To date, the Company has supplied more than 70 million doses to the European Union and will substantially exceed 80.2 million doses by the end of June 2021."
:lol:

https://www.astrazeneca.com/content/ast ... urope.html



According to the ECDC COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker, as of today (July 5th), AstraZenica has delivered 75,784,945 doses to the EU/EAA countries.

https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#distribution-tab

Another example of AZ overpromising
"...and will substantially exceed 80.2 million doses by the end of June 2021."
and underdelivering.... :shhh:


You need to understand the difference between allocation and delivery. It's all set out in the contract you guys seem allergic to reading. Anyway (section 8) the way it goes is this. AZ says to the participating states "hey, we've got X new vaccines that will be ready on Thursday". So the EU has what's called the "binding allocation", which is used to divide up the batch. So, say, AZ notifies France that they have 50k doses available. France then has two choices, take them, and they will be delivered the France's national distribution centre, or leave them with AZ and pay for storage, insurance etc for an undisclosed period of time. After that, they can agree to store them for a further period, or AZ can sell them wherever that want, or even destroy them.

So the 75.8m actual supply and 80.2+m available supply may well be both true, and likely are given the current circumstances with demand for AZ so low. But I've been over this before, and if you want to ignore it to make a point, what can I do.

The EU needs more doses in arms. Anything. AZ has proven great. Needing 3 doses? Probably, but if I weren't vaccinated and they were in short supply and I could get a 3 jab AZ course, I would go for it.
Delta will come and it it literally six weeks too late to start vaccinating. It always is the same pattern. A small uptick, then exponential as Delta will find a home in undervaccinated communities. The Netherlands has started the uptick:
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/co ... RA~NLD~POL

Delta only seems to be deterred by the 2nd jab, but all the Western vaccines seem to be working well enough.
UK at 50% of population having a bad Delta outbreak despite being very well vaccinated. +17% (or 67% or two thirds with at least one jab)
Spain at 40%, moving up +16% one jab
Germany at 39% percent moving up +17% one jab. 56%, based on the UK experience, isn't good enough
Netherlands at 36% two jabs probably won't slow it enough. But with 24% one jab, is really going to move up (60% total some vaccine, should help slow spread, but not as well as UK).
France at 31% two jabs... 19% one jab. Should have a worse Delta experience than the UK. Rhoo Rhoo.

The EU needs jabs in arms. Personally, reserve Pfizer for 12+ to accelerate the quantity of people vaccinated to slow the spread would be a wise move.

Data on vaccinations (updated daily, why I put in the snapshot).

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/co ... TA~ISR~NLD

Before someone says it, the USA is horribly under-vaccinated. My relative in Mesa county Colorado is going through hell. You might notice the hospital beds stay 100% full yet the quantity of beds keep declining. They have to now accommodate those nurses who want out of coronavirus duty or just don't want to do coronavirus. They're done. The wards are full of people who chose not to be vaccinated and you just cannot negotiate with the burned out. Burned out people will quit and switch careers when it doesn't make sense and that is where medical staff are (at least here in the USA). The EU will reach that. The pay in nursing isn't high enough for the stress and hours and the nurses know that. Or... they are just burned out and want out. They must grant them double vacations this summer to stem the exodus.

https://health.mesacounty.us/covid19/datadashboard/

The selfish who aren't vaccinating, even with AZ... are in for a rude awakening. Medical staff are taking retirement or forcing decisions on vacations. Since there is AZ available in the EU, their staff will develop the same attitude (which is really, in my opinion, based on burnout).

Unless you have managed a burned out team (I"m really good at it, they always throw me into burned out teams to save projects because fewer quit under me but management gets pissed by my stand downs... which you cannot do in medicine, but they need it). Unless you, like myself, have training in fatigue and management of fatigue, it is a problem. Management always has the attitude "but we told you you're needed..." Good luck negotiating with the burned out. There are things you have to do to get them to listen to a word and I don't think the medical management has the training to deal with what is coming everywhere in 2021/2022. Not just the EU, but turning the nose up to AZ is creating a future problem they don't know they will have. This is a problem that has to be solved 3 months before the metrics show an issue and today's management isn't up to thinking that far ahead. Oh well...

Lightsaber
10 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14620
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:44 pm

lightsaber wrote:
The EU needs jabs in arms. Personally, reserve Pfizer for 12+ to accelerate the quantity of people vaccinated to slow the spread would be a wise move.


Unfortunately that isn't a problem in Germany, since the folks in charge if vaccination recommendations don't recommend vaccinating the 12-17 year old at all, only for those with preexisting conditions.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
GDB
Posts: 14327
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:57 pm

BaconButty wrote:
marcelh wrote:
BaconButty wrote:
"The judge ordered delivery of 80.2 million doses by 27 September 2021. To date, the Company has supplied more than 70 million doses to the European Union and will substantially exceed 80.2 million doses by the end of June 2021."
:lol:

https://www.astrazeneca.com/content/ast ... urope.html



According to the ECDC COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker, as of today (July 5th), AstraZenica has delivered 75,784,945 doses to the EU/EAA countries.

https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#distribution-tab

Another example of AZ overpromising
"...and will substantially exceed 80.2 million doses by the end of June 2021."
and underdelivering.... :shhh:


You need to understand the difference between allocation and delivery. It's all set out in the contract you guys seem allergic to reading. Anyway (section 8) the way it goes is this. AZ says to the participating states "hey, we've got X new vaccines that will be ready on Thursday". So the EU has what's called the "binding allocation", which is used to divide up the batch. So, say, AZ notifies France that they have 50k doses available. France then has two choices, take them, and they will be delivered the France's national distribution centre, or leave them with AZ and pay for storage, insurance etc for an undisclosed period of time. After that, they can agree to store them for a further period, or AZ can sell them wherever that want, or even destroy them.

So the 75.8m actual supply and 80.2+m available supply may well be both true, and likely are given the current circumstances with demand for AZ so low. But I've been over this before, and if you want to ignore it to make a point, what can I do.


Me too, there's a nasty whiff about this thread, a wilfulness not to see the wood for the trees, to assume legalistic processes in normal times survive contact with an enemy, in this case a pandemic.
The whiff smells a lot like the shaming nonsense here that we usually associate with the likes of Farage and Johnson, well I was brought up to believe that two wrongs don't make a right. Certainly from leaders I usually thought better of.

Did you see that superb Horizon Special on the race for the vaccine last month?
It really puts all this political wrangling in perspective, being on the BBC i-player not accessible outside the UK, however I found this, get it while it's still there;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnrWNiVfMdc

As this review states, it is not a nationalistic celebration of AZ (as some on this thread will no doubt believe), rather it covers all of the teams, even the Australian one which lost funding at a critical time.
Not covered is the failed French attempt, maybe they were not allowed access, or if they were chose not to show it given the political trouble it caused in France.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radi ... the-planet

It's feature length but accessible though detailed, to me it's incredible how one of the greatest science achievements in such a short time, since the technological crash programs of WW2 or the Space Race, has ended up being used to settle political scores during a pandemic .

I get it and agree about one thing at least, Johnson is the worst PM in modern history, his cabinet useless sock puppets, here's the thing though, the two things the UK got right was the development of the AZ, with foreign partners of course, as well as the vaccination program, both things Johnson's lot had the least to do with.
They buggered most other things up, hence the death toll.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 22673
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:11 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
The EU needs jabs in arms. Personally, reserve Pfizer for 12+ to accelerate the quantity of people vaccinated to slow the spread would be a wise move.


Unfortunately that isn't a problem in Germany, since the folks in charge if vaccination recommendations don't recommend vaccinating the 12-17 year old at all, only for those with preexisting conditions.

Best regards
Thomas

Then the children will be vectors.

I suggested what I consider wise to maximize the vaccination rate.

Lightsaber
10 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
JJJ
Posts: 4105
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:59 pm

BaconButty wrote:

So the 75.8m actual supply and 80.2+m available supply may well be both true, and likely are given the current circumstances with demand for AZ so low. But I've been over this before, and if you want to ignore it to make a point, what can I do.


Technically both can be true but a quick glance at the continuous deadline pushbacks on age brackets allocated to AZ vaccine will tell you it isn't.

Unless your point is that member states health authorities would be so callous as to deliberately delay vaccination calendars to take a swing at AZ.

I don't have much respect for the political class but that's absolutely out of the question.
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2360
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:35 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
par13del wrote:
I thought the EU medical authorities already drove the final nail in the AZ coffin when they stated that mixing another vaccine as the second dose to AZ was proven to be more effective than 2 doses of AZ?


The thing is it also looks like AZ + BNT/Moderna may very well be more effective than two doses of either one.

best regards
Thomas


Does it? The same University of Oxford that “drove the final nail into the AZ coffin” found that:

“Both mixed schedules produced stronger responses than two doses of AstraZeneca, but the research team observed the highest antibody response in people receiving two doses of the Pfizer vaccine.”

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/mixing-v ... -1.6083245

Unless I’m misreading this article:

2 X Pfizer > AZ (1st) + Pfizer (2nd) > Pfizer (1st) + AZ (2nd) > 2 X AZ
 
User avatar
BaconButty
Posts: 925
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:42 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:57 pm

JJJ wrote:
BaconButty wrote:

So the 75.8m actual supply and 80.2+m available supply may well be both true, and likely are given the current circumstances with demand for AZ so low. But I've been over this before, and if you want to ignore it to make a point, what can I do.


Technically both can be true but a quick glance at the continuous deadline pushbacks on age brackets allocated to AZ vaccine will tell you it isn't.

Unless your point is that member states health authorities would be so callous as to deliberately delay vaccination calendars to take a swing at AZ.

I don't have much respect for the political class but that's absolutely out of the question.


Doesn't Spain have a 16 week gap for AZ?
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sp ... 021-04-30/
You're the local, have they reduced it? Because if not that would explain the low 2nd dose rate in 60-69 year olds. "The extension gives authorities more breathing space to determine the safest way to administer the vaccine, the health ministry said." So not supply. Same as the Canadians I think.

I think you're viewing the AZ APA as a contract between AZ and the European Commission. It isn't, and the EC was a pains to point that out (link supplied upthread somewhere, I'm tired of looking the same things up). Basically, the APA is a cookie-cutter to spin out individual contracts between AZ and the member states. So Spain, for example, might not have enough for second doses, but at the same time Slovenia might not be able to use some, but they want an emergency buffer and retain it in storage. You may think that sounds crazy, but in the UK we have know how many doses are allocated but not delivered to the nation states from Scottish and Welsh figures, and scaling them up. At its peak it reached 11m+. Much of that will have been a buffer for second doses. And with Delta potentially on the horizon, and if todays Canadian real world studies are accurate, AZ is better against Delta than Pfizer!

Image
Down with that sort of thing!
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 22673
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:05 am

BaconButty wrote:
JJJ wrote:
BaconButty wrote:

So the 75.8m actual supply and 80.2+m available supply may well be both true, and likely are given the current circumstances with demand for AZ so low. But I've been over this before, and if you want to ignore it to make a point, what can I do.


Technically both can be true but a quick glance at the continuous deadline pushbacks on age brackets allocated to AZ vaccine will tell you it isn't.

Unless your point is that member states health authorities would be so callous as to deliberately delay vaccination calendars to take a swing at AZ.

I don't have much respect for the political class but that's absolutely out of the question.


Doesn't Spain have a 16 week gap for AZ?
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sp ... 021-04-30/
You're the local, have they reduced it? Because if not that would explain the low 2nd dose rate in 60-69 year olds. "The extension gives authorities more breathing space to determine the safest way to administer the vaccine, the health ministry said." So not supply. Same as the Canadians I think.

I think you're viewing the AZ APA as a contract between AZ and the European Commission. It isn't, and the EC was a pains to point that out (link supplied upthread somewhere, I'm tired of looking the same things up). Basically, the APA is a cookie-cutter to spin out individual contracts between AZ and the member states. So Spain, for example, might not have enough for second doses, but at the same time Slovenia might not be able to use some, but they want an emergency buffer and retain it in storage. You may think that sounds crazy, but in the UK we have know how many doses are allocated but not delivered to the nation states from Scottish and Welsh figures, and scaling them up. At its peak it reached 11m+. Much of that will have been a buffer for second doses. And with Delta potentially on the horizon, and if todays Canadian real world studies are accurate, AZ is better against Delta than Pfizer!

Image

I have been impressed with AZ.
It is certainly best to have 2 doses of AZ than nothing. Many are splitting hairs, but the reality is that if many took AZ, Delta would be slowed and the next crisis averted.

But instead politics played more of a role than the medical facts. You are right, AZ does seem to be very good vs. Delta (I'll avoid the question of "better.") What I know is South Africa is looking at AZ to help save people:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ta-variant

If one can get a vaccine just a few weeks earlier, it makes more of a difference than which Western Vaccine.

With Pfizer only being 64% effective vs. Delta, that is quite the wake up call:
https://news.yahoo.com/israel-sees-drop ... 24713.html

Lightsaber
10 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14620
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:38 am

lightsaber wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
The EU needs jabs in arms. Personally, reserve Pfizer for 12+ to accelerate the quantity of people vaccinated to slow the spread would be a wise move.


Unfortunately that isn't a problem in Germany, since the folks in charge if vaccination recommendations don't recommend vaccinating the 12-17 year old at all, only for those with preexisting conditions.

Best regards
Thomas

Then the children will be vectors.

I suggested what I consider wise to maximize the vaccination rate.


Oh, i agree. Their point of view is a) not enough data to make a call and b) looks like the risks may outweigh the benefits, and you can´t vaccinate children for the benefit of adults if there is no health benefit for them as well, it would be unethical.

ElPistolero wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
par13del wrote:
I thought the EU medical authorities already drove the final nail in the AZ coffin when they stated that mixing another vaccine as the second dose to AZ was proven to be more effective than 2 doses of AZ?


The thing is it also looks like AZ + BNT/Moderna may very well be more effective than two doses of either one.

best regards
Thomas


Does it? The same University of Oxford that “drove the final nail into the AZ coffin” found that:

“Both mixed schedules produced stronger responses than two doses of AstraZeneca, but the research team observed the highest antibody response in people receiving two doses of the Pfizer vaccine.”

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/mixing-v ... -1.6083245

Unless I’m misreading this article:

2 X Pfizer > AZ (1st) + Pfizer (2nd) > Pfizer (1st) + AZ (2nd) > 2 X AZ


It would appear the error bars on that are rather large, hence "may" and not "does".

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
JJJ
Posts: 4105
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:17 am

BaconButty wrote:
Doesn't Spain have a 16 week gap for AZ?
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sp ... 021-04-30/
You're the local, have they reduced it? Because if not that would explain the low 2nd dose rate in 60-69 year olds. "The extension gives authorities more breathing space to determine the safest way to administer the vaccine, the health ministry said." So not supply. Same as the Canadians I think.


Old link, it was decreased to 12 weeks actually, but that would only account for about 10 points according to the original calendar.

The remaining 15 points are down to May and June delays.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lavang ... n.amp.html
 
AirbusCheerlead
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:20 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:56 am

As I said many post ago, EU covid vaccine tracker has a time lag. Official number from the EU is 481.6 Mio doses delivered til end of Q2.
https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-tra ... ropeans_en.
With 106 Mio delivered in Q1, we have 375.6 Mio delivered in Q2. At best the EU hoped for 410 Mio (250 Pf/BNT, 35 MOD, 70 AZ, 55 JJ), giving us a shortfall of about 40 Mio (375.6 Mio also accounts for Chinese and Sputnik, I estimate them at about 5 Mio for Q2, hence 35 + 5 = 40). A shortfall of about 10% seems a rather good performance from the manufacturers overall.
We will only know the exact figures when communicated by the EU. But since the biggest shortfall seems to be with JJ, AZ shouldn't be to far from the 70 Mio!

Best regards and stay safe,
Jonas
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2360
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:08 am

BaconButty wrote:
And with Delta potentially on the horizon, and if todays Canadian real world studies are accurate, AZ is better against Delta than Pfizer!

Image


The data is accurate, but with a caveat.

Because of the way supplies rolled in, the most vulnerable groups (60+) were almost exclusively vaccinated with Pfizer, while AZ, which came in ~3 months later, was used in younger, healthier groups (it was rolled out to 40+ from the get go).

Both the PM and an opposition leader (both<50) took AZ as a first dose due to availability. Both opted for Moderna for their second dose. As things stand, mRNA usage in Canada is 15X AZ usage (~45M doses v ~3M).

Ergo, not an apples-to-apples comparison. Pfizer effectiveness in the 40-60 age group will be higher.

The second shot comparison will be even weirder because the government is actively pushing mRNA for people who took AZ the first time round, so the total number of folk fully vaccinated with AZ may well fall short of the 1M mark.
 
marcelh
Posts: 1500
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:43 am

AirbusCheerlead wrote:
As I said many post ago, EU covid vaccine tracker has a time lag. Official number from the EU is 481.6 Mio doses delivered til end of Q2.
https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-tra ... ropeans_en.
With 106 Mio delivered in Q1, we have 375.6 Mio delivered in Q2. At best the EU hoped for 410 Mio (250 Pf/BNT, 35 MOD, 70 AZ, 55 JJ), giving us a shortfall of about 40 Mio (375.6 Mio also accounts for Chinese and Sputnik, I estimate them at about 5 Mio for Q2, hence 35 + 5 = 40). A shortfall of about 10% seems a rather good performance from the manufacturers overall.
We will only know the exact figures when communicated by the EU. But since the biggest shortfall seems to be with JJ, AZ shouldn't be to far from the 70 Mio!

Best regards and stay safe,
Jonas


Fair enough, if there's a lag between the data of the ECDC and the real numbers, I've might been a bit too harsh. Let's wait and see what the real numbers will be.
 
Olddog
Posts: 1639
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:49 am

In france we are at:
Pfizer 43 500 000
AZ 7 000 000
Moderna 5 300 000
Jansen 500 000

Source covidtracker.fr
 
marcelh
Posts: 1500
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:37 am

lightsaber wrote:
I have been impressed with AZ.
It is certainly best to have 2 doses of AZ than nothing. Many are splitting hairs, but the reality is that if many took AZ, Delta would be slowed and the next crisis averted.

Many people (myself included) would have taken AZ in April and May instead of Pfizer in June and July (my 2nd jab is in 2 weeks) without any doubt. Real issue is the lack of AZ and the subsequent delay in the overall vaccination program.

Looking at the numbers AirbusCheerlead provided, it looks like AZ may even deliver 100 million doses by the end of Q2 (I believe it when I see it), but when about 20+ million is delivered at the final days, it will only provide sufficient protection by August. With the current uprise of Delta in the EU, that won't make a lot of difference.

But instead politics played more of a role than the medical facts. You are right, AZ does seem to be very good vs. Delta (I'll avoid the question of "better.") What I know is South Africa is looking at AZ to help save people:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ta-variant

If one can get a vaccine just a few weeks earlier, it makes more of a difference than which Western Vaccine.


A few weeks earlier.... that's the problem with AZ in Europe and politics has not much to do with it.....

With Pfizer only being 64% effective vs. Delta, that is quite the wake up call:
https://news.yahoo.com/israel-sees-drop ... 24713.html

Lightsaber


I'm not scared about the fact it's 60-65% effective against the Delta variant. It's more important the vaccines are able to mitigate the severity of the illness (and long term effects afterwards).
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14620
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:54 am

marcelh wrote:
Looking at the numbers AirbusCheerlead provided, it looks like AZ may even deliver 100 million doses by the end of Q2


Q2 is already over by a week, and the ECDC tracker having lag or not, i would suspect AZ would have put out a press release on July first had they shipped the 80.2 Million they said they will easily surpass.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 4651
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:20 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
Seriously, A-Z trashed its own reputation and that of the rather basic Oxford vaccine it rather pathetically tries to manufacture; it doesn't need any help at doing so from either the EU's EMA or the US FDA.


It's true. Other than for reasons of National Pride (and maybe due to a small number of shareholders) I honesty can't see why anyone is defending AZ at this point. For decades to come AZ will be a case study of incompetence for management textbooks.

Obviously AZ Vaccine > no vaccine (unless like me you live in a community with zero transmission and are in an age band that theoretically puts you at low risk), but the way that AZ has screwed up the opportunity is just sad. Queensland's Chief Medical Officer's statement last week was pretty damning of AZ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nU_a8qbDDE

sabenapilot wrote:
At that time, A-Z was massively underproducing and keeping much of its limited EU production output well out of sight from the EC by hiding it deep in some Italian warehouse in order to swap it for Indian produced A-Z vaccines bound for the UK! A deceiptful vaccine carousel set up to skim the EU off the limited number of vaccines it only had available, all under the guise of the Covax program, most likely with the help of the UK governement even!


I wonder if anyone will be charged with this. Seems like a fairly clear case of fraud, no?

CranfordBoy wrote:
kelval wrote:
Sanofi announces between 95 and 100% efficacity for their new vaccine:
https://www.ladepeche.fr/2021/05/17/enf ... 550076.php (in french)
https://www.sanofi.com/en/our-covid-19- ... nt-vaccine (sorry, this is Sanofi's promotinal stuff but I have a hard time finding sources in english, google keeps on sending me toward french sources)

Sanofi seems to have a working vaccine that cleared phase two. They are starting phase 3 and production immediatly.
Also it seems on par with the most effective vaccines as far as protection goes, wich is a plus.

The good point in my eyes is that it's a recombinant protein-based vaccine, wich scares the vaccine hesitant people a bit less.
I know several families in our neighbourhood (France) that refuse COVID vaccines because they don't want a mRNA shot, neither for them nor their kids. I just gave up even talking about vaccines with them, as they become hysteric and completely focused on their mRNA refusal. They are under 50 so not good candidates for Johnsson either.


Good news. In the interests of accuracy it should be pointed out that this is a joint development between GSK and Sanofi. Perhaps that's why googling Sanofi leads only to French websites.

https://www.gsk.com/en-gb/media/press-r ... e-2-trial/

Sanofi provides the recombinant antigen and Glaxo the adjuvant. A technique previously used in flu vaccines.


Just watch as it goes from being the 'French Sanofi Vaccine' to the 'British GSK Vaccine' overnight. :D

SomebodyInTLS wrote:

My wife commented yesterday that we suddenly stopped hearing about an Oxford virus on BBC a few weeks ago, about the same time they started discussing this "AstraZenica" thing which seems to be having certain problems... ;)


sabenapilot wrote:
Well, I haven't done any statistical study to underpin this interesting observation of your wife, but accidentally it coincides with my own feelings too when following the British media.

The very frequent use of the term 'oxford vaccine' which was routinely used by politicians and popular British media outlets alike as a synonym for very first Covid-19 vaccine developed in the UK and globally produced by A-Z (albeit with much troubles ramping up) now seems to have all but died out: it's back to just calling it by its manufacturer's name now that it seems to be all but dropped by most developed nations as there is growing evidence it isn't such a sharp pencil after all.

I'd be very interested to hear from Gavin Williamson if he still genuinely thinks the UK is 'a much better country than every single one of them', because of having developed what now is all but officially a second class vaccine just a few weeks earlier than some of those other and by his own accounts 'far worse countries' which clearly managed to develop technologically far more advanced mRNA vaccines almost simulateneously to the UK.


:checkmark: Exactly. Not a coincidence.

JJJ wrote:
This is the latest version of the same tripe the British press has been peddling for months when those foreigners just don't get it and mess with "our vaccine". This time with Russians in it.

Russians, big Pharma, the FDA, EU Commission are all the big bad villains that won't let the world saving vaccine be used.


Don't forget the greatest EU Stooge ever; the US Government (which still hasn't certified it)!

JJJ wrote:
The fact the good fellows at the MHRA said they were ok with it (how many of them coming from or being buddies with the same people in Oxford, I wonder?) doesn't mean that the rest of the world suddenly drops the standards just because you're well intentioned.


I often wonder if the MHRA was ever going to not certify it....it was interesting in hindsight to see the way it was talked about in the media prior to certification. Though probably best not to be dealing in hypothetical like this.

Boeing74741R wrote:
Not really. Whilst I am sure it does go on in places, old boys-style ways of doing business its neither that widespread nor universally popular, hence all the accusations and scrutiny over which companies/individuals that did work for the government was linked to Dominic Cummings, Dido Harding applying to become chief executive of NHS England, etc.


Dido Harding is married to a Tory minister, is a member of the House Of Lords and got the job as head of NHS Test & Trace (which spend thirty billion yet had no discernible result on reducing COVID transmission) thanks entirely to being a 'member of the club' with merit clearly playing no part in the process whatsoever. Other than gender, she is the epitome of "jobs for the boys".
First to fly the 787-9
 
AirbusCheerlead
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:20 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:43 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Looking at the numbers AirbusCheerlead provided, it looks like AZ may even deliver 100 million doses by the end of Q2


Q2 is already over by a week, and the ECDC tracker having lag or not, i would suspect AZ would have put out a press release on July first had they shipped the 80.2 Million they said they will easily surpass.

best regards
Thomas


I think that the EU and vaccine producer calculate with end of Q2 after week 26 or last Sunday (04.07.21).
I don't know if AZ will reach the 80.2 Mio, but worst case they should come really close. For example for Germany comparing the German and the EU vaccine tracker, there is about 1.3 Mio AZ jabs more.
https://impfdashboard.de/
I did the same with the Belgian, Dutch, French, Italian, Austrian, and Spanish vaccine trackers. Adding the difference to the EU tracker gets over 79 Mio AZ doses delivered (for some countries total between the trackers are the same). It is also likely that some doses are still in EU's hand...

https://info.gesundheitsministerium.at/
https://coronadashboard.government.nl/l ... accinaties
https://covidtracker.fr/vaccintracker/
https://www.governo.it/it/cscovid19/report-vaccini/
https://observablehq.com/@tf-vaccination/data

Best regards and stay safe,
Jonas
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2360
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:19 pm

zkojq wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Seriously, A-Z trashed its own reputation and that of the rather basic Oxford vaccine it rather pathetically tries to manufacture; it doesn't need any help at doing so from either the EU's EMA or the US FDA.


It's true. Other than for reasons of National Pride (and maybe due to a small number of shareholders) I honesty can't see why anyone is defending AZ at this point. For decades to come AZ will be a case study of incompetence for management textbooks.

Obviously AZ Vaccine > no vaccine (unless like me you live in a community with zero transmission and are in an age band that theoretically puts you at low risk), but the way that AZ has screwed up the opportunity is just sad. Queensland's Chief Medical Officer's statement last week was pretty damning of AZ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nU_a8qbDDE


Yeah, it is wrapped up in a national flag, and amplified by politics. There’s an understandable tendency to view it through the EU-UK prism but AZ’s record outside the UK frankly stinks.

The Aussies are criticizing it, the Americans pretend it doesn’t exist (when they don’t flip flop on recognizing it), and Canada has written it off (and quite literally recommended that AZ recipients take Moderna, instead of AZ, as their second dose).

Worth noting that Pfizer has delivered 10X what AZ has delivered to Canada over the same time period (or 15X-20X, when you factor in US donations, which weren’t actual AZ deliveries to Canada). Evidently not just a problem with the EU.

Gotta say, the UK did such a fantastic job of negotiating its contract with AZ, they’ve ended up making every other “western” country write AZ off as unreliable.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4971
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:47 pm

The US did not so much reject AZ, as come to the conclusion that they would not need it. We do need to approve it as a matter of global politics. I also observe that it is a really good vaccine, not better nor as good though as the three the US has approved.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2360
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:33 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
The US did not so much reject AZ, as come to the conclusion that they would not need it. We do need to approve it as a matter of global politics. I also observe that it is a really good vaccine, not better nor as good though as the three the US has approved.


If that was a response to my post, should clarify that my US comment was related to this:

“Jujamcyn Theaters had previously said audience members wishing to attend the show needed to be immunized with vaccines approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), leaving those who received AstraZeneca-Oxford on the sidelines.”

https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/s ... -1.6072682

As to the usefulness of AZ, yes, it remains an important part of the toolkit in bad situations. AZ isn’t a “bad” vaccine; it’s supply is unreliable.

Reality is, aside from the UK, AZ supply to western countries hasn’t been great - nowhere close to Pfizer and Moderna. Can’t all be blamed on the EU’s approach to negotiating contracts. They evidently prioritized certain countries, and that’s affected perceptions of their reliability everywhere else.

Which probably explains the political prickliness around it - hard to insist something is a “success” when one’s closest peers have all but written it off.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14620
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:46 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
I also observe that it is a really good vaccine, not better nor as good though as the three the US has approved.


I am pretty sure 2x AZ still beats JJ quite handily. Having gotten JJ myself i still don´t feel unter-protected, and i still went knowing darn well that i could get BNT or Moderna about four weeks later.

ElPistolero wrote:
Gotta say, the UK did such a fantastic job of negotiating its contract with AZ,


which is odd considering the contract is virtually identical with the EU contract.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 10332
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:42 am

A vaccine has more qualities than the protection figures. AZ is cheap to make and easy to handle, which is a big plus outside the first World.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14620
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:54 am

seahawk wrote:
A vaccine has more qualities than the protection figures. AZ is cheap to make and easy to handle, which is a big plus outside the first World.


which of course is true, and even more true for JJ with just one dose.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 1158
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:31 am

When do people think the need to have tests before travel may end?

This is what I think is holding a lot of people back from flying.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14620
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:45 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
When do people think the need to have tests before travel may end?.


here it already has ended for vaccinated people, unless coming back from a country with a high share of variants of concern. Thailand is the same, but only for Phuket so far, supped to end Oct. 1st for the rest.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
sabenapilot
Topic Author
Posts: 3705
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:12 pm

ElPistolero wrote:
Reality is, aside from the UK, AZ supply to western countries hasn’t been great - nowhere close to Pfizer and Moderna. Can’t all be blamed on the EU’s approach to negotiating contracts. They evidently prioritized certain countries, and that’s affected perceptions of their reliability everywhere else.

Which probably explains the political prickliness around it - hard to insist something is a “success” when one’s closest peers have all but written it off.


Belgium has started giving away whatever vaccine deliveries it gets from A-Z

"Depending the number of doses delivered by A-Z, Belgium will donate between 164.200 and 618.800 vaccine doses to Covax this month, since the country no longer uses the controversial vaccine except for the second shot and only on those above 41 years old who already got their first one."

https://www.hln.be/binnenland/belgie-do ... ~ac6869f8/

It shows once again that:
1- A-Z is dead in the EU
2- the completely unpredicatable and thus totally unreliable volumes of deliveries by A-Z
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1523
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:04 pm

zkojq wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
Not really. Whilst I am sure it does go on in places, old boys-style ways of doing business its neither that widespread nor universally popular, hence all the accusations and scrutiny over which companies/individuals that did work for the government was linked to Dominic Cummings, Dido Harding applying to become chief executive of NHS England, etc.


Dido Harding is married to a Tory minister, is a member of the House Of Lords and got the job as head of NHS Test & Trace (which spend thirty billion yet had no discernible result on reducing COVID transmission) thanks entirely to being a 'member of the club' with merit clearly playing no part in the process whatsoever. Other than gender, she is the epitome of "jobs for the boys".


Well yes, which is why I namechecked Harding alongside Cummings as they're two high-profile examples that add substance to the "jobs for the boys" claims. Like I said, it's not universally popular and is why it gets called out whenever it happens regardless of the reasons.
 
LJ
Posts: 5468
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:01 am

lightsaber wrote:
Netherlands at 36% two jabs probably won't slow it enough. But with 24% one jab, is really going to move up (60% total some vaccine, should help slow spread, but not as well as UK).


Your data is incorrect

The Netherlands is at 46.8% two jabs and 78.1% in total (figures based on last week provided by ECDPC and confirmed by Dutch government). The expectation is that by end August everybody aged 18+ (who wants) has is fully vaccinated (excluding the two week holding period). The next step is the age group 12-17, which will have their first by end of September.

As for AZ, not many expected in The Netherlands.

https://coronadashboard.government.nl/landelijk/vaccinaties

The pick up in The Netherlands is primarily in the age group 20 - 29 (46% of the new cases and 10 - 19 (13%).

https://coronadashboard.government.nl/landelijk/positief-geteste-mensen
Last edited by LJ on Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14620
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:07 am

LJ wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Netherlands at 36% two jabs probably won't slow it enough. But with 24% one jab, is really going to move up (60% total some vaccine, should help slow spread, but not as well as UK).


Your data is incorrect

The Netherlands is at 46.8% two jabs and 78.1% in total (figures based on last week provided by ECDPC and confirmed by Dutch government).


I think his number is percentage of the total population and yours are adults.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
LJ
Posts: 5468
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:14 am

tommy1808 wrote:
LJ wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Netherlands at 36% two jabs probably won't slow it enough. But with 24% one jab, is really going to move up (60% total some vaccine, should help slow spread, but not as well as UK).


Your data is incorrect

The Netherlands is at 46.8% two jabs and 78.1% in total (figures based on last week provided by ECDPC and confirmed by Dutch government).


I think his number is percentage of the total population and yours are adults.

best regards
Thomas


However, as the UK won't vaccinate the age group 12 - 17 years actively, it makes no sense including less than 18 years into the discussion. Moreover, none of the vaccines is approved for under 6 years (at least not in the EU and US), thus that will distort the percentages anyway.

BTW based on total number of people living in The Netherlands the percentage fully vaccinated would be 38.1%, and not 36%. (6.58mn of the 17.28mn are fully vaccinated according to last weeks data).
 
marcelh
Posts: 1500
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:53 am

LJ wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
LJ wrote:

Your data is incorrect

The Netherlands is at 46.8% two jabs and 78.1% in total (figures based on last week provided by ECDPC and confirmed by Dutch government).


I think his number is percentage of the total population and yours are adults.

best regards
Thomas


However, as the UK won't vaccinate the age group 12 - 17 years actively, it makes no sense including less than 18 years into the discussion. Moreover, none of the vaccines is approved for under 6 years (at least not in the EU and US), thus that will distort the percentages anyway.

BTW based on total number of people living in The Netherlands the percentage fully vaccinated would be 38.1%, and not 36%. (6.58mn of the 17.28mn are fully vaccinated according to last weeks data).

And in the Netherlands 12-17 years will be vaccinated.
Everyone born in 2007 can make an appointment
https://www.rivm.nl/en/news/young-people-born-in-2007-invited-for-covid-19-vaccination
 
sabenapilot
Topic Author
Posts: 3705
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:01 am

LJ wrote:
the UK won't vaccinate the age group 12 - 17 years actively,


That's a realy pitty because it will likely mean the virus will keep on circulating in the general population and change overtime, thus making the pandemic last for much longer.

Combined with a decreasing efficiency of the current vaccines and taking into account the way in which the UK Government managed to piss of 'friends and partners' in Europe and beyond by their blatant vaccination nationism, stopping a flare up will be very difficult then.

Secretly hoarding as many vaccines as possible worked for a while at the start of 2020 to take a headstart with the elderly people, but most of that is now gone... if this carries on for much longer, what is going to be BoJo's plan then for Britain, notably for the younger population?
 
Catfry
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:20 am

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:15 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
LJ wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Netherlands at 36% two jabs probably won't slow it enough. But with 24% one jab, is really going to move up (60% total some vaccine, should help slow spread, but not as well as UK).


Your data is incorrect

The Netherlands is at 46.8% two jabs and 78.1% in total (figures based on last week provided by ECDPC and confirmed by Dutch government).


He might have confused Danish and Dutch as usual. denmark sits at 39% fully vaccinated, and 61% at least one jab as of today.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 22673
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:56 pm

marcelh wrote:
LJ wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

I think his number is percentage of the total population and yours are adults.

best regards
Thomas


However, as the UK won't vaccinate the age group 12 - 17 years actively, it makes no sense including less than 18 years into the discussion. Moreover, none of the vaccines is approved for under 6 years (at least not in the EU and US), thus that will distort the percentages anyway.

BTW based on total number of people living in The Netherlands the percentage fully vaccinated would be 38.1%, and not 36%. (6.58mn of the 17.28mn are fully vaccinated according to last weeks data).

And in the Netherlands 12-17 years will be vaccinated.
Everyone born in 2007 can make an appointment
https://www.rivm.nl/en/news/young-people-born-in-2007-invited-for-covid-19-vaccination

Excellent news.

When I look at the Netherlands, the exponential growth is scary:
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/co ... RA~NLD~ESP

Vaccination will solve the problem.
Unfortunately, it is a wee bit late when the wave has already hit. In fact, it is too late in the USA.

Lightsaber
10 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
sabenapilot
Topic Author
Posts: 3705
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:45 pm

https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/ ... 30753?s=20

Half of the adult EU population now fully vaccinated.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 22673
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:32 am

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/110-mil ... te-2485589
Alas, it is pretty obvious there is a EU wide breakout. Netherlands and Spain are bad. Greece and Belgium are starting the curve up that I hope doesn't go exponential.

With the warning from India and the UK on how bad Delta is.

I'm proud in Spain that the health workers are getting the vaccines:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/hi ... NewsSearch

I'll say here in the USA, there are definitely two opinions on the vaccine mandates in France. I'd say 80% of the people I know who are vaccinated are all for it. I'd also say 100% of the adults not vaccinated are against it. Personally, I think it will help protect France and allow an earlier return to normal. I really dislike vaccine passports, but I think they will be required. :cry2:

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2021/0713 ... ne-latest/

Delta and Lambda have changed the rules... rhoo rhoo. (Much more transmittable in children in my opinion.)

sabenapilot wrote:
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1414854064144330753?s=20

Half of the adult EU population now fully vaccinated.

First, great news and should be celebrated. Unfortunately, Delta says not enough.

When is the plan for major child vaccination efforts? I saw one country, but as the purchases are the union and borders will reopen, what is the EU plan? I'm off the opinion that with the new variants, that children are a major vector. With Ro > 5, slowing down the virus requires an amazingly high vaccination rate.
Ok, mostly posted as I want my younger child to have a vaccine option. Grrr...

Lightsaber
10 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
sabenapilot
Topic Author
Posts: 3705
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:35 pm

Infections are up, but hospitalisations aren't following at the same (delayed) pace.
It leads to politicians questioning the need for additional measures: people getting ill a few days isn't worth killing a whole country's economy for of course...
If there's no stress on hospitals and hardly any deads, who cares about covid infections?
It's just another flu then..
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10922
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:22 pm

I must admit to being confused, if 1.7 million sign up in a day because folks want to eat out, how come the authorities did not know that "power" existed, if they announced that a couple months ago, France would be much further ahead.
A.Net required caveat - It would have made no difference since AZ was failing in their deliveries.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14620
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:36 am

6 weeks earlier would have been possible. Politicians suspected they had the power but maybe not to that extent. And there will also be a backlash (protests across France today). And doing it now has an advantage : people can't argue the pandemic is at its lowest, despite that being the case for deaths and people in ICU, because cases are definitely rising rapidly.

A colleague of mine was dead set against the vaccine, saying he would stop going to restaurants and cinemas (despite this being something he does several times a week, we both have a cinema pass with unlimited screenings). I offered him the Ohio idea of a 1 million dollars lottery for vaccinated people : he didn't care. He's also obese and over 50...

Then Macron spoke, and the next day at work he spent a couple hours finding a spot to get vaccinated !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14620
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:38 am

Another thing is that vacations are sacred in France, it's basically our religion. So we'll go to some length to save them if needed.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Olddog
Posts: 1639
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:47 am

What I find really strange is the apparent huge number of health workers that were against the vaccine until they heard they will not get paid anymore if no vaccine....
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10922
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:22 am

Olddog wrote:
What I find really strange is the apparent huge number of health workers that were against the vaccine until they heard they will not get paid anymore if no vaccine....

Based on what I have seen here and read about in other countries, that is normal.
My opinion, a lot of people get into the industry for the job, not because they are interested in "helping" people, as a result, their self education only goes as far as is needed to get / maintain their job. Just as susceptible to Facebook, Twitter as everyone else.
 
User avatar
SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 1934
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:48 am

lightsaber wrote:
When is the plan for major child vaccination efforts? I saw one country, but as the purchases are the union and borders will reopen, what is the EU plan? I'm off the opinion that with the new variants, that children are a major vector. With Ro > 5, slowing down the virus requires an amazingly high vaccination rate.


There is disturbing silence on this issue from the UK government - who actually seem to be doing everything they can to deliberately infect every child under 18. All recent talk of regulations and vaccine programmes studiously ignored any suggestion that schools will be affected or children vaccinated - and now they've rolled back all the existing measures in schools.

They've managed to avoid any discussion in the media here but it genuinely looks like the policy is: vaccines for adults, "herd immunity" for kids.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 37 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos