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marcelh
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:05 am

lightsaber wrote:

When is the plan for major child vaccination efforts? I saw one country, but as the purchases are the union and borders will reopen, what is the EU plan?
Lightsaber


There is no EU plan, because the EU hasn’t a mandate to make decisions about health care.
 
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par13del
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:24 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
There is disturbing silence on this issue from the UK government - who actually seem to be doing everything they can to deliberately infect every child under 18. All recent talk of regulations and vaccine programmes studiously ignored any suggestion that schools will be affected or children vaccinated - and now they've rolled back all the existing measures in schools.

They've managed to avoid any discussion in the media here but it genuinely looks like the policy is: vaccines for adults, "herd immunity" for kids.

Do we have studies from any country saying that children cannot get infected with Covid, and if they do get Covid is there any study saying they cannot transmit Covid?
In relation to children my issue is who will the children infect, those in boarding school will be in protected situations, for the other 99.99999999 percent of kids they will be infecting their parents who will not be isolating from their kids, especially the youngest set. I think we can all agree that it is easier to protect the adult population without a vaccine for a period of time, but not children. Children if sent to school will get infected and will take the virus home to infect the parents, the unvaccinated parents will have a rough time, what else is there in that equation?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:31 pm

marcelh wrote:
lightsaber wrote:

When is the plan for major child vaccination efforts? I saw one country, but as the purchases are the union and borders will reopen, what is the EU plan?
Lightsaber


There is no EU plan, because the EU hasn’t a mandate to make decisions about health care.

Yet we are in the EU vaccination strategy plan. The EU certifies vaccines and purchases the vaccines. So in my opinion, they own the mandate.

We see Delta spread pretty equally in a number of countries. In my opinion, that means a reservoir of spreaders. It seems an obvious candidate is the children spreading the virus.
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases
https://miami.cbslocal.com/2021/07/19/h ... ldren/?amp
“Now what we’re seeing is younger children, younger adults, are getting the infection and bringing it to their families,” she said.

Before it was parents or other adults bringing coronavirus to the kids. Now we see the opposite. If the EU has as bad a plan as the USA for kids, they will have the same fate, in my opinion.

Lightsaber
 
JJJ
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:58 pm

lightsaber wrote:
marcelh wrote:
lightsaber wrote:

When is the plan for major child vaccination efforts? I saw one country, but as the purchases are the union and borders will reopen, what is the EU plan?
Lightsaber


There is no EU plan, because the EU hasn’t a mandate to make decisions about health care.

Yet we are in the EU vaccination strategy plan. The EU certifies vaccines and purchases the vaccines. So in my opinion, they own the mandate.


A thread name in a.net doesn't dictate policy.

The EU only started purchasing vaccines because at some point member states decided it made sense to piggyback on early orders made by a few countries and not have members fight each other for a place in line for certain scarce products (which turned out to be a very real concern).

Yes, the EMA makes vaccine recommendations but the ultimate word relies on member states (like Hungary buying Russian vaccines and Bulgaria dragging their feet on MRNA vaccines on cost grounds).

You'll find vaccination patterns also differ country by country because it's a national (and in some countries even regional) policy.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:08 pm

JJJ wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
marcelh wrote:

There is no EU plan, because the EU hasn’t a mandate to make decisions about health care.

Yet we are in the EU vaccination strategy plan. The EU certifies vaccines and purchases the vaccines. So in my opinion, they own the mandate.


A thread name in a.net doesn't dictate policy.

The EU only started purchasing vaccines because at some point member states decided it made sense to piggyback on early orders made by a few countries and not have members fight each other for a place in line for certain scarce products (which turned out to be a very real concern).

Yes, the EMA makes vaccine recommendations but the ultimate word relies on member states (like Hungary buying Russian vaccines and Bulgaria dragging their feet on MRNA vaccines on cost grounds).

You'll find vaccination patterns also differ country by country because it's a national (and in some countries even regional) policy.

We're going to have to agree to disagree since the EU purchases and certifies the vaccines. For children's vaccines, the EMA will determine when available and what quantity.

I believe children are a major vector of Delta. We are seeing children bringing it home in the YSA:
https://miami.cbslocal.com/2021/07/19/h ... ldren/?amp

With tourism restarted, the EU had better have a strategy.

Lightsaber
 
Olddog
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:17 pm

You are totally confused about the role and the power of the EMA. It can give a certification but that certification is not an absolute solution and each member state will decide with its own health agency to use that certification or not.
More the EMA has absolutely zero power about availability and quantity. It is the commission job.
 
marcelh
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:42 pm

lightsaber wrote:
For children's vaccines, the EMA will determine when available and what quantity.


EMA has already approved the use for non-adults on May: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/first-covid-19-vaccine-approved-children-aged-12-15-eu
The national health authorities determine if and when it will be used.

I believe children are a major vector of Delta. We are seeing children bringing it home in the YSA:
https://miami.cbslocal.com/2021/07/19/h ... ldren/?amp

In the USA the low vaccination rate of adults is the problem.

With tourism restarted, the EU had better have a strategy.

No, no and no. That is to be determined by the states, not the EU.
Last edited by marcelh on Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
JJJ
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:46 pm

lightsaber wrote:
We're going to have to agree to disagree since the EU purchases and certifies the vaccines. For children's vaccines, the EMA will determine when available and what quantity.


Nope.

EMA recommends, it's up to the individual states pharma agency to authorise, and as recommendations they're not binding or compulsory (again, see Hungary).

The Commision enters contracts on behalf of the member states, purchases are made by the individual states.

And what's more important, the specific vaccination calendar and strategy is again up to the relevant national or regional authority.
 
AirbusCheerlead
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:03 pm

lightsaber wrote:
JJJ wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Yet we are in the EU vaccination strategy plan. The EU certifies vaccines and purchases the vaccines. So in my opinion, they own the mandate.


A thread name in a.net doesn't dictate policy.

The EU only started purchasing vaccines because at some point member states decided it made sense to piggyback on early orders made by a few countries and not have members fight each other for a place in line for certain scarce products (which turned out to be a very real concern).

Yes, the EMA makes vaccine recommendations but the ultimate word relies on member states (like Hungary buying Russian vaccines and Bulgaria dragging their feet on MRNA vaccines on cost grounds).

You'll find vaccination patterns also differ country by country because it's a national (and in some countries even regional) policy.

We're going to have to agree to disagree since the EU purchases and certifies the vaccines. For children's vaccines, the EMA will determine when available and what quantity.

I believe children are a major vector of Delta. We are seeing children bringing it home in the YSA:
https://miami.cbslocal.com/2021/07/19/h ... ldren/?amp

With tourism restarted, the EU had better have a strategy.

Lightsaber


Hi Lightsaber,

The EMA has authorised Pfizer/BioNTech for 12 to 15 years old on Mai 28th.
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/first ... d-12-15-eu

The EU has only competence on subjects which the member states have given approval. Health strategies are mostly not among them, hence each member states has it's own strategy...

In most EU states vaccines availability is not a problem anymore and the EU states and EU sit on about 100 Mio vaccine doses
(source EU: covid tracker and https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-tra ... ropeans_en).
The massive stock is due to big deliveries at the end of Q2 and falling demand in many EU countries. While some parts of the stocks are formed by vaccine in lower demand (AZ and J&J) there are also quite a few Pfizer/BNT among those 100 Mio.
Germany for exemple, has over 6 Mio doses of Pfizer/BNT in stock, or in other words about enough doses to give all kids between 12 and 16 a first dose this week. And since this week they should get 3 Mio doses of Pfizer/BNT delivered again, it wouldn't even slow down their normal vaccination drive.
(Source: https://impfdashboard.de/ & RKI).
But it seems Germany has decided (yet?) to only vaccinate those at risk.

This older Reuters link (June 16th) gives some info about strategies chosen by European and other countries:
https://www.reuters.com/business/health ... 021-06-01/

The UK just announced that they will follow the German strategy:
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... ister-says
Quoting the headline:
UK children will not be offered Covid jab unless vulnerable

While the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency has authorised the us of Pfizer/BNT for 12 to 15 year old, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation has recommended only a limited use citing the risk of:
rare but serious adverse events, including myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle) and pericarditis (inflammation of the membrane around the heart)


As already said, EU member states have various approches. Getting an overall picture isn't easy since the EU covid vaccine tracker has no informations for those under 18. But there are a few EU countries that are happy to vaccinate the under 16 for exemple:
France, see https://covidtracker.fr/vaccintracker/, were the two last graphic show vaccine uptake for 0 to 17 and 12 to 17 (23.1% as of July 15th).
An other country is Belgium, see https://covid-vaccinatie.be/en (22.9% as of July 18th).

Best regards, and as always, stay safe
Jonas
 
tommy1808
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:21 am

lightsaber wrote:
JJJ wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Yet we are in the EU vaccination strategy plan. The EU certifies vaccines and purchases the vaccines. So in my opinion, they own the mandate.


A thread name in a.net doesn't dictate policy.

The EU only started purchasing vaccines because at some point member states decided it made sense to piggyback on early orders made by a few countries and not have members fight each other for a place in line for certain scarce products (which turned out to be a very real concern).

Yes, the EMA makes vaccine recommendations but the ultimate word relies on member states (like Hungary buying Russian vaccines and Bulgaria dragging their feet on MRNA vaccines on cost grounds).

You'll find vaccination patterns also differ country by country because it's a national (and in some countries even regional) policy.

We're going to have to agree to disagree since the EU purchases and certifies the vaccines. For children's vaccines, the EMA will determine when available and what quantity.


Which has absolutely nothing to do with the policies governments actually implement.

In Germany it is not even the government or a government agency that decides what vaccination is recommended for whom, but an Independent pro bono panel with members appointed for three years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_ ... accination

From the government perspective everyone older than 11 can get vaccinated if they or their parents chose to (Parents consent is legally not strictly needed for 12 year olds and usually not needed for 14 year olds and up), but since the Stiko doesn´t recommend vaccinations for the 12-17 year olds most doctors refuse to do so.

best regards
Thomas
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:43 am

par13del wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
They've managed to avoid any discussion in the media here but it genuinely looks like the [UK] policy is: vaccines for adults, "herd immunity" for kids.

Do we have studies from any country saying that children cannot get infected with Covid, and if they do get Covid is there any study saying they cannot transmit Covid?
In relation to children my issue is who will the children infect, those in boarding school will be in protected situations, for the other 99.99999999 percent of kids they will be infecting their parents who will not be isolating from their kids, especially the youngest set. I think we can all agree that it is easier to protect the adult population without a vaccine for a period of time, but not children. Children if sent to school will get infected and will take the virus home to infect the parents, the unvaccinated parents will have a rough time, what else is there in that equation?


Well that's why it seems to me that the whole thing is about deliberately infecting all kids, assuming most adults will have been vaccinated in the mean time. And as others mentioned just above it's coming out that the policy is indeed not to vaccinate kids despite the opportunity being there. The media are starting to notice now:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... ring-line/

(I can only go by the first couple of lines as New Scientist rarely seem to make full articles available these days...)
 
sabenapilot
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:14 am

There seems to be a massive misunderstanding as to what the EU does, especially by outsiders who look at the map produced by the ECDC and see the whole of the EU as following one strategy.

As has been pointed out before, the vaccination stategy is not an EU competence at all, but rather conducted at the memberstates' level (in some states like Germany or Belgium, it is further devolved to their regional governments even), often with widespread differences amongst them, even within the memberstates itself.

The EU is merely coordinating vaccine purchases to avoid internal competition amongst EU memberstates (as we've seen demonstrated by a break-away UK) and trying to streamline the rules for cross border travel, but other than that, the EC is not deciding who gets what type of vaccine, nor after how many weeks a second shot is to be given (if any): all of that is decided solely by national/regional governments. The EC can advice and coordinate, but it can not enforce nor impose.

Failure to understand that is failing to understand the unique legal set-up of the EU, which is neither a federal nor a confederal model, it is a model 'sui generis', meaning it has full and absolute sovereignty on certain clearly defined domains (as if the memberstates do not exist any longer), whereas at the same time it has litterally zero competence in others domains as if it did not exist itself.

As to the title of this topic: keep in mind this topic was created by splitting off a discussion from another highly debated topic with the title given to it by a moderator...
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:02 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Well that's why it seems to me that the whole thing is about deliberately infecting all kids, assuming most adults will have been vaccinated in the mean time. And as others mentioned just above it's coming out that the policy is indeed not to vaccinate kids despite the opportunity being there.


the Guardian wrote:
Sage adviser claims ministers trying to get as many as possible infected with Covid

Exclusive: Prof Robert West says rhetoric about caution is ‘a way of putting blame on public’

A scientist advising the government has accused ministers of allowing infections to rip through the younger population in an effort to bolster levels of immunity before the NHS faces winter pressures.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... ser-claims
 
marcelh
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:21 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Well that's why it seems to me that the whole thing is about deliberately infecting all kids, assuming most adults will have been vaccinated in the mean time. And as others mentioned just above it's coming out that the policy is indeed not to vaccinate kids despite the opportunity being there.


the Guardian wrote:
Sage adviser claims ministers trying to get as many as possible infected with Covid

Exclusive: Prof Robert West says rhetoric about caution is ‘a way of putting blame on public’

A scientist advising the government has accused ministers of allowing infections to rip through the younger population in an effort to bolster levels of immunity before the NHS faces winter pressures.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... ser-claims


An easy way to save Pfizer vaccines….
 
sabenapilot
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:49 pm

Six EU states overtake UK Covid vaccination rate

Malta, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Denmark and Ireland overtake UK in fully jabbed percentages

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... lout-slows
 
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Grizzly410
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:37 pm

Effectively EU states are now some of the most highly vaccinated places in the world. Seems the EC actually didn't manage the procurement as bad as some would like us to believe.

This blogpost explain rather well what was key to turnaround a bad start :

"in acknowledging that the EU did not get everything right, we can see how the Union demonstrated a much more valuable skill - the ability to identify mistakes, learn from them and find solutions."


"The real work was being done behind the scenes by a man called Thierry Breton, the European Commissioner for the Internal Market. Breton was tasked with addressing a part of the EU's problem that has been much less discussed - the blocks and deficiencies within the EU's own vaccine production supply chain."


https://europeantomorrow.blogspot.com/2021/08/the-eus-awkward-vaccine-success.html

By googling "Task Force on Industrial Scale-Up of COVID-19 Vaccines" one can find lot of docs about the progress and work performed by Breton's team.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:56 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
Six EU states overtake UK Covid vaccination rate

Malta, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Denmark and Ireland overtake UK in fully jabbed percentages

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... lout-slows


It was always going to be the case the vaccination rate will drop given the amount of vaccines being inoculated during the first half of the year and relative to the total population number. Some of the countries in question also have far smaller populations, so it should theoretically be quicker to get a majority of people vaccinated. There are some people here who just won't take the vaccine and I'm sure there are some in other countries too. It surprised me just how many under-30's have refused the vaccine here. Time will tell whether the government was bluffing about bringing in COVID passes from late-September. I suspect if they follow through with it or if more places insist of proof of vaccination status, that will change a few people's minds. It'll be interesting to see how France gets on with COVID passes.

In any case, what matters is how many people have been vaccinated. The BBC is reporting just now the UK is about to achieve 75% of the adult population being fully vaccinated.

Regardless, I'm just glad more vaccines are getting into people's arms. It's a race against the virus, not one another.

Also, is it just me who noticed this snippet with respect to France within the article?

"With a population similar to that of the UK, France makes an interesting point of comparison. According to the VaccinTracker website, which uses government data, France has so far administered 43.3m first and 36.1m second injections.

That means 65.1% of the French population has had at least one dose and 54.3% are fully vaccinated (a slightly higher percentage than Our World In Data’s, because France considers people who have recovered from Covid fully vaccinated after one dose)."

Goes to show how numbers should be treated with caution.
 
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SQ22
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:25 pm

European Commisssion has approved another Advanced Purchase Agreement with Novavax about 100 million doses with options for another 100 million doses over the course of 2021, 2022 and 2023 in the beginning of August this year.

Coronavirus: Commission approves new contract for a potential COVID-19 vaccine with Novavax
 
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Dutchy
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:29 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
That means 65.1% of the French population has had at least one dose and 54.3% are fully vaccinated (a slightly higher percentage than Our World In Data’s, because France considers people who have recovered from Covid fully vaccinated after one dose)."

Goes to show how numbers should be treated with caution.


As does the Netherlands. In the Netherlands you are considered fully vaccinated with one doses:
- if you have been fully recovered from Covid in the last six months and have gotten a mrna vaccine OR
- one shot with Janssen (only one shot needed)

Or with two of course.

It surprises me to hear that other countries have other definitions.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:44 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
There seems to be a massive misunderstanding as to what the EU does, especially by outsiders who look at the map produced by the ECDC and see the whole of the EU as following one strategy.

As has been pointed out before, the vaccination stategy is not an EU competence at all, but rather conducted at the memberstates' level (in some states like Germany or Belgium, it is further devolved to their regional governments even), often with widespread differences amongst them, even within the memberstates itself.

The EU is merely coordinating vaccine purchases to avoid internal competition amongst EU memberstates (as we've seen demonstrated by a break-away UK) and trying to streamline the rules for cross border travel, but other than that, the EC is not deciding who gets what type of vaccine, nor after how many weeks a second shot is to be given (if any): all of that is decided solely by national/regional governments. The EC can advice and coordinate, but it can not enforce nor impose.

Failure to understand that is failing to understand the unique legal set-up of the EU, which is neither a federal nor a confederal model, it is a model 'sui generis', meaning it has full and absolute sovereignty on certain clearly defined domains (as if the memberstates do not exist any longer), whereas at the same time it has litterally zero competence in others domains as if it did not exist itself.

As to the title of this topic: keep in mind this topic was created by splitting off a discussion from another highly debated topic with the title given to it by a moderator...


Correct, people should educate themselves before assuming anything about the EU. The EU has been given specific domains to act upon, health care isn't one of them. That rests solely with the member states. If the member-states ask the EU to coordinate, then they do that as an independent nation like they do with the vaccine purchase, but that doesn't mean it is the domain of the European Commission. The EU inThe title is wrong and assumptions made in that topic were also mostly wrong by some. So yeah, I would applaud if the title were changed to reflect more of the subject discussed. "Vaccination Strategy in EU countries: News and Discussion Thread"
 
tommy1808
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 19, 2021 5:24 am

Dutchy wrote:
It surprises me to hear that other countries have other definitions.


which may lead to surprises when traveling, since outside the EU few countries consider that fully vaccinated, just like few countries recognize cross-vaccination as fully vaccinated. So, with one dose of JJ you are fully vaccinated, with 1x AZ + 1x mRNA you just have two first doses.

best regards
Thomas
 
sabenapilot
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:40 am

Indeed,
only a handful of countries within the EU accept that a recovery from Covid equals a first dose.
For travel within the EU, all countries accept this principle, but it will lead to issues if and when you want to travel outside of the EU on the basis of a vaccine certificate that shows recovery + one shot.

Another interesting issue is that A-Z is not authorized by the US FDA, so people who are fully vaccinated with this vaccine are not considered so by the US if and when the US opens up again to vaccinated people from abroad. Most EU countries halted the use of A)Z months ago, but not so in the UK, so this issue might become one of the greatest concerns to British travelers. and the British government: a vaccinate which isn't good enough to allow travel to the US with!
 
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Francoflier
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:28 am

sabenapilot wrote:
Another interesting issue is that A-Z is not authorized by the US FDA, so people who are fully vaccinated with this vaccine are not considered so by the US if and when the US opens up again to vaccinated people from abroad. Most EU countries halted the use of A)Z months ago, but not so in the UK, so this issue might become one of the greatest concerns to British travelers. and the British government: a vaccinate which isn't good enough to allow travel to the US with!


The fact that it is not authorized by the FDA does not mean that it won't be accepted for inbound travelers.
The FDA did not authorize it on safety grounds, not for lack of efficacy.
AZ was suspected of potentially causing thrombosis for some people and since the US had a sufficient supply of other vaccines, they decided not to bother taking the risk.
I'm sure they can still recognize that it is an effective vaccine however and that a lot of prospective travelers to the US will have had it.

At the end of the day, and with regards to the other issue you mentioned, I wonder if an antibody test would not be a better requirement for crossing borders than a vaccination certificate...
 
tommy1808
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:04 am

sabenapilot wrote:
Most EU countries halted the use of A)Z months ago, but not so in the UK, so this issue might become one of the greatest concerns to British travelers. and the British government: a vaccinate which isn't good enough to allow travel to the US with!


i would suspect with more data becoming available, and the UK does produce excellent data with the likes of their REACT Study, countries will come around both to fully AZ vaccinated and cross vaccinations. But that may take a bit.

best regards
Thomas
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:08 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
It surprises me to hear that other countries have other definitions.


which may lead to surprises when traveling, since outside the EU few countries consider that fully vaccinated, just like few countries recognize cross-vaccination as fully vaccinated. So, with one dose of JJ you are fully vaccinated, with 1x AZ + 1x mRNA you just have two first doses.

best regards
Thomas


I think it's got the potential to become messy in the coming months as global travel slowly starts to open up once again. I'm not a scientist, so I'm not going to argue over what defines fully vaccinated and whether it's right to class a recently-infected person as fully vaccinated, but in the case of the Janssen vaccine I'm content that someone is fully vaccinated if they received that instead of the others given just one dose is required.

What's also another issue is booster jabs being a prerequisite for entry. I see Austria (and I think Croatia) is putting a time limit on time passed since the second dose was received, but given not everywhere is yet doing a booster programme and given there's debate about whether it's needed or not, this is another potential messy situation looming.

Francoflier wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Another interesting issue is that A-Z is not authorized by the US FDA, so people who are fully vaccinated with this vaccine are not considered so by the US if and when the US opens up again to vaccinated people from abroad. Most EU countries halted the use of A)Z months ago, but not so in the UK, so this issue might become one of the greatest concerns to British travelers. and the British government: a vaccinate which isn't good enough to allow travel to the US with!


The fact that it is not authorized by the FDA does not mean that it won't be accepted for inbound travelers.
The FDA did not authorize it on safety grounds, not for lack of efficacy.
AZ was suspected of potentially causing thrombosis for some people and since the US had a sufficient supply of other vaccines, they decided not to bother taking the risk.
I'm sure they can still recognize that it is an effective vaccine however and that a lot of prospective travelers to the US will have had it.

At the end of the day, and with regards to the other issue you mentioned, I wonder if an antibody test would not be a better requirement for crossing borders than a vaccination certificate...


I suspect when the USA eventually lifts the proclamation in place for UK, Ireland, Schengen zone etc., there won't be any barriers to travel for those that were given the AstraZeneca vaccine whether the FDA ever approves it for domestic use or not. As this is an aviation forum, I would hazard a guess that some pilots and cabin crew that work for airlines that serve the USA and lay over downroute have already been given the AstraZeneca vaccine, though I don't know if there are any rules around that.

Speaking of vaccine efficacy, I saw this on BBC News this morning of a survey that monitors different vaccines effectiveness against the Delta variant: -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58257863
 
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Dutchy
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:53 am

Boeing74741R wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
It surprises me to hear that other countries have other definitions.


which may lead to surprises when traveling, since outside the EU few countries consider that fully vaccinated, just like few countries recognize cross-vaccination as fully vaccinated. So, with one dose of JJ you are fully vaccinated, with 1x AZ + 1x mRNA you just have two first doses.

best regards
Thomas


I think it's got the potential to become messy in the coming months as global travel slowly starts to open up once again. I'm not a scientist, so I'm not going to argue over what defines fully vaccinated and whether it's right to class a recently-infected person as fully vaccinated, but in the case of the Janssen vaccine I'm content that someone is fully vaccinated if they received that instead of the others given just one dose is required.

What's also another issue is booster jabs being a prerequisite for entry. I see Austria (and I think Croatia) is putting a time limit on time passed since the second dose was received, but given not everywhere is yet doing a booster programme and given there's debate about whether it's needed or not, this is another potential messy situation looming.


Agree, ideally it should be a uniform policy around the world, or at least within the EU. Unfortunately, there is nobody governing the world or the EU on the domain of healthcare. I traveled to France this summer season, in the Netherlands, you considered fully vaccinated with Pfizer in my case, after two shots and two weeks after the second shot. I flew 10days after the second shot. In order to enter France, you needed to be fully vaccinated or have a negative test within the last 24hours. And fully vaccinated meant, two shots and seven days delay :roll: just to be sure, I did a test. In the end, nobody asked me anything about being vaccinated.....
 
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Re: European Commission Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:13 pm

'Slow but steady' has seen the EU win out in the vaccine race (against the UK and the US).

With more than 70% of its adult population now fully vaccinated against the coronavirus, Europe is, “against all critics, amongst the world leaders”, says U. von der Leyen. Moreover, the Commission president said, the EU had exported half its vaccines: “We delivered more than 700 million doses to the European people and we delivered more than 700 million doses to the rest of the world over the same period. We are the only region (to demonstrate such global solidarity).”

Nine EU countries, including Portugal, Spain, Ireland, France, Belgium and Italy, have administered one or both doses of a Covid-19 vaccine to a larger share of their populations than the UK, with a further five having overtaken the US. Many member states have – in contrast to the UK – already administered first jabs to as many as 80% of 12 to 17-year-olds.

In general, coordinated European decisions seem to be paying dividends. The bloc’s Covid passport, showing proof of vaccination, recovery or a negative test, has allowed millions of EU citizens to holiday abroad this summer with minimal fuss, encouraging take-up: the EU’s collective approach may, finally, be paying off.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... ccine-race

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