Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
AeroVega wrote:Interesting development. Dutch broadcaster NOS is reporting that The Netherlands was contacted by UK to co-invest in Halix. Dutch government tried to follow-up with Halix but was rebuffed (extra money was not needed anymore).
https://nos.nl/artikel/2374714-oppositi ... eggen.html
"This is not like the butcher: it is not, whoever invests first will be the first to receive vaccines." With that statement by European Commissioner Stella Kyriakides, the battle between AstraZeneca and the European Commission about the supply of corona vaccines started. The EU was outraged that it is getting far fewer vaccines than previously promised, while the British were just getting their promised amounts.
What Kyriakides did not say: London not only stood in line at the proverbial butcher earlier, but was also willing to pull out the wallet and put down hefty sums before it was clear whether the butcher would have meat at all. And the Netherlands had the opportunity to stand next to the British in April and May last year .
marcelh wrote:So Moderna and Pfizer delivered just over 2.7 million of the 3.0 million planned, while AstraZenica delivered 0.9 million of the 4.6 originally planned which was later reduced to 1.5 million.
Stating AZ "is just a whipping boy for some bruised political/institutionaL egos" is an opinion; missing a delivery target by 80% is a fact and is - at least IMHO - a very good reason to do some whipping.
lightsaber wrote:marcelh wrote:So Moderna and Pfizer delivered just over 2.7 million of the 3.0 million planned, while AstraZenica delivered 0.9 million of the 4.6 originally planned which was later reduced to 1.5 million.
Stating AZ "is just a whipping boy for some bruised political/institutionaL egos" is an opinion; missing a delivery target by 80% is a fact and is - at least IMHO - a very good reason to do some whipping.
This is the most rational statement in too long in this thread. Quantified. Missing by 10%, bad, but not horrible. An A-
Making a mark of 20%... Not a passing grade.
I wonder why the production whiff...
lightsaber wrote:marcelh wrote:So Moderna and Pfizer delivered just over 2.7 million of the 3.0 million planned, while AstraZenica delivered 0.9 million of the 4.6 originally planned which was later reduced to 1.5 million.
Stating AZ "is just a whipping boy for some bruised political/institutionaL egos" is an opinion; missing a delivery target by 80% is a fact and is - at least IMHO - a very good reason to do some whipping.
This is the most rational statement in too long in this thread. Quantified. Missing by 10%, bad, but not horrible. An A-
Making a mark of 20%... Not a passing grade.
I wonder why the production whiff...
Lightsaber
max999 wrote:
To summarize EU's approach towards AZ, it's like squeezing blood from a stone. It won't get vaccines into the arms of Europeans any faster.
lightsaber wrote:marcelh wrote:So Moderna and Pfizer delivered just over 2.7 million of the 3.0 million planned, while AstraZenica delivered 0.9 million of the 4.6 originally planned which was later reduced to 1.5 million.
Stating AZ "is just a whipping boy for some bruised political/institutionaL egos" is an opinion; missing a delivery target by 80% is a fact and is - at least IMHO - a very good reason to do some whipping.
This is the most rational statement in too long in this thread. Quantified. Missing by 10%, bad, but not horrible. An A-
Making a mark of 20%... Not a passing grade.
Lightsaber
JJJ wrote:max999 wrote:
To summarize EU's approach towards AZ, it's like squeezing blood from a stone. It won't get vaccines into the arms of Europeans any faster.
It will get vaccines into European arms faster than if AZ continued with their export plans.
At every turn when export controls have been even hinted at AZ has suddenly found extra doses. I'm sure it's not just a coincidence.
This, in turn, will force AZ to sort out their production issues, in Europe or elsewhere.
Companies should not be rewarded for failure. There are no gold stars for effort here.
max999 wrote:lightsaber wrote:marcelh wrote:So Moderna and Pfizer delivered just over 2.7 million of the 3.0 million planned, while AstraZenica delivered 0.9 million of the 4.6 originally planned which was later reduced to 1.5 million.
Stating AZ "is just a whipping boy for some bruised political/institutionaL egos" is an opinion; missing a delivery target by 80% is a fact and is - at least IMHO - a very good reason to do some whipping.
This is the most rational statement in too long in this thread. Quantified. Missing by 10%, bad, but not horrible. An A-
Making a mark of 20%... Not a passing grade.
I wonder why the production whiff...
Lightsaber
Whipping boy does not make for more vaccines any faster. All this complaining about AZ, which we all agree failed, is not helping to prevent deaths and save economies. We need real action.
Even if AZ double booked the orders, the EU has not forced AZ to make vaccines for the EU instead of other countries. It's my understanding the EU has not leveraged its ability to legally force a private company to prioritize production for domestic national security purposes. The US equivalent is the Defense Production Act, which the president threatened to use for the vaccines, but it was never acted upon.
For the export bans, I don't believe EU will take possession of the blocked vaccines because there will be legal and reputation risks. I don't think the EU wants to be seen by other countries as a thief and a thug for stealing their purchased vaccines.
To summarize EU's approach towards AZ, it's like squeezing blood from a stone. It won't get vaccines into the arms of Europeans any faster.
lightsaber wrote:Did AZ double charge?
lightsaber wrote:How was it possible for the UK to have such a successful vaccination effort, heavily dependent upon AZ when the EU finds so many problems? Death rates have dropped in the UK, so overall the vaccine is a tremendous success. Something is really up.
Lightsaber
par13del wrote:lightsaber wrote:How was it possible for the UK to have such a successful vaccination effort, heavily dependent upon AZ when the EU finds so many problems? Death rates have dropped in the UK, so overall the vaccine is a tremendous success. Something is really up.
Lightsaber
You may not think it is relevant to this thread but I am certain EU posters will advise you that since Brexit, the UK is not adhering to the same medical standards as the EU, so......
lightsaber wrote:There is no doubt AZ messed up, but there is also no doubt the EU is diverting attention.
The Dutch vaccines are an interesting case. For the UK paid for them, but the EU wants them. Did AZ double charge?
The EU is getting 30 million AZ by end of march.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/lifestyle/wel ... NewsSearch
The latest suspension by Germany is certain to drive people away from AZ:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/healthcare/ ... -under-60s
How was it possible for the UK to have such a successful vaccination effort, heavily dependent upon AZ when the EU finds so many problems? Death rates have dropped in the UK, so overall the vaccine is a tremendous success. Something is really up
Now Coronavirus causes horrid blood clotting. I personally know three people who have had Covid19 induced heart attacks, so it is no joke. The doctors recommend walking before and after the vaccination (before to clear any blood clots present beforehand, after to prevent the start of clots). The way to stop blood clots is movement, so what is happening in the EU creating so many? Spain doesn't seem to have the same issue. I am wondering why the elevated incidence rate.
Lightsaber
lightsaber wrote:
The latest suspension by Germany is certain to drive people away from AZ:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/healthcare/ ... -under-60s
How was it possible for the UK to have such a successful vaccination effort, heavily dependent upon AZ when the EU finds so many problems? Death rates have dropped in the UK, so overall the vaccine is a tremendous success. Something is really up.
Now Coronavirus causes horrid blood clotting. I personally know three people who have had Covid19 induced heart attacks, so it is no joke. The doctors recommend walking before and after the vaccination (before to clear any blood clots present beforehand, after to prevent the start of clots). The way to stop blood clots is movement, so what is happening in the EU creating so many? Spain doesn't seem to have the same issue. I am wondering why the elevated incidence rate.
Lightsaber
marcelh wrote:lightsaber wrote:There is no doubt AZ messed up, but there is also no doubt the EU is diverting attention.
Diverting attention from what? I would like to see some facts for this kind of unsubstantiated opinions. Ans please something better than UK-based facts, thank you. I read a lot and living in the EU, I simply don't see the "diversion" you are claiming.
lightsaber wrote:marcelh wrote:lightsaber wrote:There is no doubt AZ messed up, but there is also no doubt the EU is diverting attention.
Diverting attention from what? I would like to see some facts for this kind of unsubstantiated opinions. Ans please something better than UK-based facts, thank you. I read a lot and living in the EU, I simply don't see the "diversion" you are claiming.
Public relations diversion, nit vaccine diversion:
https://news.yahoo.com/news/political-r ... 30030.html
Germany's actions have been interpreted as political both at home and abroad, with opposition leaders calling on Chancellor Angela Merkel to sack Spahn. Officials in major European capitals have given mixed accounts over how the joint move to halt AstraZeneca came about.
The stop on AstraZeneca threatens to hobble Europe's vaccination campaign just as a third wave of infection breaks over the continent, accelerated by more infectious variants.
The bloc has already lagged far behind the United States and former EU member Britain in vaccinating citizens. Hospitals are filling up again, and politicians in several European countries have been forced to consider fresh lockdowns, even as comparable rich countries prepare for normal life to return.
[i]
In my opinion, the EU needs the vaccine.
The on again/off again authorizations are chaos.
e.g., the latest halt is going to multiply the adversion of the "quasi-effective" vaccine.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/compani ... NewsSearch
I can only look in from an outsiders perspective where the EU is demanding their fair share while talking down a vaccine proven to reduce transmission and by looking at UK data, seems incredibly good at that!
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
The UK only has half their people vaccinated. Most AZ. Yes, mostly imported AZ.
The rest if your reply was splitting semantics, so we'll have to agree to disagree. If AZ is claiming a goal on the day before due date and misses, that is trouble.
For my opinion, I stopped watching TV, I read for data. I look at trends:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covi ... untry=~DEU
There are two links I look at each morning, both updated before the London lunch:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
The US and in particular UK over-ordered vaccines.
e.g., the USA ordered 300 million AZ doses early:
https://nypost.com/2020/05/21/us-orders ... s-vaccine/
I find it interesting the EU stance is already changing UK vaccine production. e.g. NovaVax was to be finished and filled in the EU, the UK won't make that mistake going forward:
https://theconversation.com/amp/moderna ... own-158196
So from a distance, if AZ can do nothing right (bad vaccine, poor delivery), it is tough to take the fuss seriously Yet lack of this vaccine is literally killing people.
I find it interesting on how Novavax cannot acquire enough ingredients (I posted links earlier) for Novavax, yet they are ramping up UK production. Everyone warned in prior links not negotiating would have consequences. Is that the first obvious sign?
There is the fact the UK funded vaccine development early (enough links upthread) and really funded the Dutch plant. If a negotiated settlement occurs, those in limbo doses free up for everyone.
I have no horse in this race. I solve probems, what is just is. The past tells one how we came to a problem and how to avoid the problem.
Oh, EU regulator is finding no clot risk factor.
https://www.bing.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.c ... 11284.html
My medical friends, in particular those treating Covid19 are watching in horror this AZ spat. This will be one of the most produced vaccines that has, in the real world (numerous links in thread) proven it saves lives.
So the only debate we should be having is production rate and distribution of what us produced. There are billions in the world who certainly feel that the US, UK, and EU are hording the vaccines. Enough so the UN has criticized;
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... thout.html
I hope with the new Pfizer (Germany), Moderna (Switzerland m), J&J (soon at IDT, Sanofi, and Merck), as well as expanding AZ capacity) that the EU has sufficient vaccine.
Let me just say as someone sitting in a country hoping AZ is approved, but not yet available, pointing all the fingers at one vaccine does not make sense. In particular with the UK putting on the stiff upper lip and working to have the three more the funded enter production: NovaVax, Valneva, and CureVac.
I'm sorry, I missed the next EU funded vaccine about to enter distribution, which one is that? I'm quite certain the UK is done with the mistake of funding vaccine production in the EU, but that is just my opinion.
Again, I have no horse in this race. I just read the contracts and came to my own conclusions. [i]For a vaccine sold at cost, AstraZenica made huge mistakes. #1, they never should have sold as cheaply as they did. Throwing money at problems early would have helped.
Lightsaber
lightsaber wrote:marcelh wrote:lightsaber wrote:There is no doubt AZ messed up, but there is also no doubt the EU is diverting attention.
Diverting attention from what? I would like to see some facts for this kind of unsubstantiated opinions. Ans please something better than UK-based facts, thank you. I read a lot and living in the EU, I simply don't see the "diversion" you are claiming.
Public relations diversion, nit vaccine diversion:
https://news.yahoo.com/news/political-r ... 30030.html
[i]Germany's actions have been interpreted as political both at home and abroad, with opposition leaders calling on Chancellor Angela Merkel to sack Spahn. Officials in major European capitals have given mixed accounts over how the joint move to halt AstraZeneca came about.
The stop on AstraZeneca threatens to hobble Europe's vaccination campaign just as a third wave of infection breaks over the continent, accelerated by more infectious variants.
The bloc has already lagged far behind the United States and former EU member Britain in vaccinating citizens. Hospitals are filling up again, and politicians in several European countries have been forced to consider fresh lockdowns, even as comparable rich countries prepare for normal life to return.
[i]
In my opinion, the EU needs the vaccine.
The on again/off again authorizations are chaos.
e.g., the latest halt is going to multiply the adversion of the "quasi-effective" vaccine.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/compani ... NewsSearch
I can only look in from an outsiders perspective where the EU is demanding their fair share while talking down a vaccine proven to reduce transmission and by looking at UK data, seems incredibly good at that!
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
The UK only has half their people vaccinated. Most AZ. Yes, mostly imported AZ.
The rest if your reply was splitting semantics, so we'll have to agree to disagree. If AZ is claiming a goal on the day before due date and misses, that is trouble.
For my opinion, I stopped watching TV, I read for data. I look at trends:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covi ... untry=~DEU
There are two links I look at each morning, both updated before the London lunch:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
The US and in particular UK over-ordered vaccines.
e.g., the USA ordered 300 million AZ doses early:
https://nypost.com/2020/05/21/us-orders ... s-vaccine/
I find it interesting the EU stance is already changing UK vaccine production. e.g. NovaVax was to be finished and filled in the EU, the UK won't make that mistake going forward:
https://theconversation.com/amp/moderna ... own-158196
So from a distance, if AZ can do nothing right (bad vaccine, poor delivery), it is tough to take the fuss seriously Yet lack of this vaccine is literally killing people.
I find it interesting on how Novavax cannot acquire enough ingredients (I posted links earlier) for Novavax, yet they are ramping up UK production. Everyone warned in prior links not negotiating would have consequences. Is that the first obvious sign?
There is the fact the UK funded vaccine development early (enough links upthread) and really funded the Dutch plant. If a negotiated settlement occurs, those in limbo doses free up for everyone.
I have no horse in this race. I solve probems, what is just is. The past tells one how we came to a problem and how to avoid the problem.
Oh, EU regulator is finding no clot risk factor.
https://www.bing.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.c ... 11284.html
My medical friends, in particular those treating Covid19 are watching in horror this AZ spat. This will be one of the most produced vaccines that has, in the real world (numerous links in thread) proven it saves lives.
So the only debate we should be having is production rate and distribution of what us produced. There are billions in the world who certainly feel that the US, UK, and EU are hording the vaccines. Enough so the UN has criticized;
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... thout.html
I hope with the new Pfizer (Germany), Moderna (Switzerland m), J&J (soon at IDT, Sanofi, and Merck), as well as expanding AZ capacity) that the EU has sufficient vaccine.
Let me just say as someone sitting in a country hoping AZ is approved, but not yet available, pointing all the fingers at one vaccine does not make sense. In particular with the UK putting on the stiff upper lip and working to have the three more the funded enter production: NovaVax, Valneva, and CureVac.
I'm sorry, I missed the next EU funded vaccine about to enter distribution, which one is that? I'm quite certain the UK is done with the mistake of funding vaccine production in the EU, but that is just my opinion.
Again, I have no horse in this race. I just read the contracts and came to my own conclusions. For a vaccine sold at cost, AstraZenica made huge mistakes. #1, they never should have sold as cheaply as they did. Throwing money at problems early would have helped.
Lightsaber
lightsaber wrote:. Throwing money at problems early would have helped.
lightsaber wrote:marcelh wrote:lightsaber wrote:There is no doubt AZ messed up, but there is also no doubt the EU is diverting attention.
Diverting attention from what? I would like to see some facts for this kind of unsubstantiated opinions. Ans please something better than UK-based facts, thank you. I read a lot and living in the EU, I simply don't see the "diversion" you are claiming.
Public relations diversion, nit vaccine diversion:
https://news.yahoo.com/news/political-r ... 30030.html
Germany's actions have been interpreted as political both at home and abroad, with opposition leaders calling on Chancellor Angela Merkel to sack Spahn. Officials in major European capitals have given mixed accounts over how the joint move to halt AstraZeneca came about.
The stop on AstraZeneca threatens to hobble Europe's vaccination campaign just as a third wave of infection breaks over the continent, accelerated by more infectious variants.
The bloc has already lagged far behind the United States and former EU member Britain in vaccinating citizens. Hospitals are filling up again, and politicians in several European countries have been forced to consider fresh lockdowns, even as comparable rich countries prepare for normal life to return.
In my opinion, the EU needs the vaccine.
The on again/off again authorizations are chaos.
e.g., the latest halt is going to multiply the adversion of the "quasi-effective" vaccine.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/compani ... NewsSearch
I can only look in from an outsiders perspective where the EU is demanding their fair share while talking down a vaccine proven to reduce transmission and by looking at UK data, seems incredibly good at that!
The rest if your reply was splitting semantics, so we'll have to agree to disagree. If AZ is claiming a goal on the day before due date and misses, that is trouble.
I find it interesting the EU stance is already changing UK vaccine production. e.g. NovaVax was to be finished and filled in the EU, the UK won't make that mistake going forward:
https://theconversation.com/amp/moderna ... own-158196
So from a distance, if AZ can do nothing right (bad vaccine, poor delivery), it is tough to take the fuss seriously Yet lack of this vaccine is literally killing people.
I find it interesting on how Novavax cannot acquire enough ingredients (I posted links earlier) for Novavax, yet they are ramping up UK production. Everyone warned in prior links not negotiating would have consequences. Is that the first obvious sign?
Murphy blamed the slow rollout on blocked imports from the EU, which he said the government did not anticipate lasting when it made its initial vaccination projections.
“AstraZeneca have had a number of attempts to get shipments released and they haven’t been successful,” Murphy said.
Wednesday, 24 March 21
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... chief-says
lightsaber wrote:Seesawing messages from EU making people very hesitant:
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/04/01/ast ... usion.html
The European Medicines Agency and World Health Organization, following safety reviews of the data, recommended continued use of the shot, saying its benefits outweighed possible risks. But those fears have not gone away, with confusion now reigning over which age group should, and can, take the vaccine.
On Tuesday, Germany suspended use of the AstraZeneca shot in all citizens under 60, citing renewed concerns after a small number of reports of rare but serious blood clots. Earlier this week, some hospitals in Berlin had initially stopped vaccinating women under 55 with AstraZeneca's shot.
I personally cannot understand the messaging from the EU on AZ.
When supply is corrected, people will wait and that is the opposite of what you want from a public health perspective.
Meanwhile, study shows single dose AZ 62%
effective in elderly after 5 weeks:
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210 ... dents.aspx
What is the status of the Australia doses? Are they going into EU arms or in limbo?
What is the status of the 10 million UK doses? Are they in limbo or released to EU countries?
21 million pounds spent by UK on Dutch plant. Obviously the UK must avoid any repeat of such a mistake:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/finance/other ... NewsSearch
Since zero doses coming from EU in near term, I hope others can recover:
https://www.bing.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/c ... 3d8f7519df
This is such a barrage if counteracting, but consistently negative from every angle against AZ, I am not sure of the situation.
Yet EU medical authority reaffirms no clot risk:
https://www.bing.com/amp/s/mobile.reute ... SKBN2BN27Q
I couldn't do a better FUD campaign against AZ if I tried. Oh, they didn't produce nearly enough vaccine. They over-promised and under-delivered without doubt. The bigger concern is how the world will be hesitant to take a proven effective vaccine once supplies are more common.
Unfortunately, this coming wave will be interesting.
Lightsaber
ElPistolero wrote:As an aside, what 10 million AZ shots for the UK are you referring to? The ones that have already been sent to the UK? Or has the EU stopped another batch?
marcelh wrote:UK has ordered 60 million doses, not really a huge amount.
ElPistolero wrote:lightsaber wrote:Seesawing messages from EU making people very hesitant:
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/04/01/ast ... usion.html
The European Medicines Agency and World Health Organization, following safety reviews of the data, recommended continued use of the shot, saying its benefits outweighed possible risks. But those fears have not gone away, with confusion now reigning over which age group should, and can, take the vaccine.
On Tuesday, Germany suspended use of the AstraZeneca shot in all citizens under 60, citing renewed concerns after a small number of reports of rare but serious blood clots. Earlier this week, some hospitals in Berlin had initially stopped vaccinating women under 55 with AstraZeneca's shot.
I personally cannot understand the messaging from the EU on AZ.
When supply is corrected, people will wait and that is the opposite of what you want from a public health perspective.
Meanwhile, study shows single dose AZ 62%
effective in elderly after 5 weeks:
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210 ... dents.aspx
What is the status of the Australia doses? Are they going into EU arms or in limbo?
What is the status of the 10 million UK doses? Are they in limbo or released to EU countries?
21 million pounds spent by UK on Dutch plant. Obviously the UK must avoid any repeat of such a mistake:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/finance/other ... NewsSearch
Since zero doses coming from EU in near term, I hope others can recover:
https://www.bing.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/c ... 3d8f7519df
This is such a barrage if counteracting, but consistently negative from every angle against AZ, I am not sure of the situation.
Yet EU medical authority reaffirms no clot risk:
https://www.bing.com/amp/s/mobile.reute ... SKBN2BN27Q
I couldn't do a better FUD campaign against AZ if I tried. Oh, they didn't produce nearly enough vaccine. They over-promised and under-delivered without doubt. The bigger concern is how the world will be hesitant to take a proven effective vaccine once supplies are more common.
Unfortunately, this coming wave will be interesting.
Lightsaber
No, the EMA has not said there is no clot risk factor. They’ve quite clearly stated that a causal link is possible, but needs further analysis to prove that it does or does not exist. Like the Canadians. And presumably Americans. (The Germans and French have said it too, but judging by your posts, they are not to be trusted).
“ At present the review has not identified any specific risk factors, such as age, gender or a previous medical history of clotting disorders, for these very rare events. A causal link with the vaccine is not proven, but is possible and further analysis is continuing.”
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astra ... -continues
As an aside, what 10 million AZ shots for the UK are you referring to? The ones that have already been sent to the UK? Or has the EU stopped another batch?
art wrote:In all the controversy over the plant in Holland producing AZ vaccine I have lost track of the supply of AZ vaccine scheduled to be available for use in UK (UK production and imports). I note that in the last 2 weeks the number of second doses administered each day in England has risen dramatically, now reaching a level where it exceeds the number of first doses administered each day. Is this due to uncertainty over supply and to ensure second doses are given before a possible substantial drop in supply prevents some people receiving a second dose within 12 weeks of the first?
lightsaber wrote:I'm with Seahawk. If the EU doesn't want AZ, release AZ from contracts, with some penalty, and let AZ sell to the world.
It cannot be in demand and not wanted. The messaging from the various EU governments has been horrible from how Merkel stated she wasn't going to take it (better to have said had or scheduled for another), "quasi-effective" and this constant stopping on tiny numbers of clots not above the background levels.
I believe the EU is scaring their own people away from all vaccines.
https://www.euronews.com/2021/03/26/vac ... ey-reveals
Around 42% of French respondents thought the Oxford/AstraZeneca jab unsafe in a YouGov survey last month.
But following the suspensions, that has now jumped to more than six-in-ten.
France has always been one of the highest vaccine sceptical countries in the world, and a study by Ipsos between December 17-20 found the lowest levels of COVID-19 vaccination intent in France.
Vaccine hesitancy in the UK has fallen to 1 in 5, that is really good communication!!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... s-ONS.html
Either there is a problem with the vaccine and the rest of the world should be allowed the doses, or there is a problem with supply.
Both cannot be an issue in my opinion. In my opinion, the AZ Vaccine is outstanding!
Meh, as one co-worker noted, those who resist getting vaccinated have their own issues. Then again, she is organizing events for vaccinated only (either already had Covid19 + 1 dose or fully vaccinated). This is against company policy, so only done by word of mouth. Any vaccine qualifies. I want to go in a cruise, but I will only consider cruises that are 100% vaccinated, but I think cruise lines know this:
https://news.yahoo.com/news/windstar-cr ... 11929.html
I already posted how the UK is now scrambling for more domestic supply. Since the EU prohibits exports, there us no reason anyone should discuss with EU vendors at this time.
If AZ is so bad, why is the EU asking for 10 million AZ doses from India?
https://www.msn.com/en-au/lifestyle/wel ... NewsSearch
Oh the irony...
Lightsaber
seahawk wrote:Is not a perfect solution? The EU thinks AZ is not safe, so the missing supply is no longer a problem and AZ can concentrate on other countries, which want their safe and effective vaccine.
ElPistolero wrote:lightsaber wrote:I'm with Seahawk. If the EU doesn't want AZ, release AZ from contracts, with some penalty, and let AZ sell to the world.
It cannot be in demand and not wanted. The messaging from the various EU governments has been horrible from how Merkel stated she wasn't going to take it (better to have said had or scheduled for another), "quasi-effective" and this constant stopping on tiny numbers of clots not above the background levels.
I believe the EU is scaring their own people away from all vaccines.
https://www.euronews.com/2021/03/26/vac ... ey-reveals
Around 42% of French respondents thought the Oxford/AstraZeneca jab unsafe in a YouGov survey last month.
But following the suspensions, that has now jumped to more than six-in-ten.
France has always been one of the highest vaccine sceptical countries in the world, and a study by Ipsos between December 17-20 found the lowest levels of COVID-19 vaccination intent in France.
Vaccine hesitancy in the UK has fallen to 1 in 5, that is really good communication!!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... s-ONS.html
Either there is a problem with the vaccine and the rest of the world should be allowed the doses, or there is a problem with supply.
Both cannot be an issue in my opinion. In my opinion, the AZ Vaccine is outstanding!
Meh, as one co-worker noted, those who resist getting vaccinated have their own issues. Then again, she is organizing events for vaccinated only (either already had Covid19 + 1 dose or fully vaccinated). This is against company policy, so only done by word of mouth. Any vaccine qualifies. I want to go in a cruise, but I will only consider cruises that are 100% vaccinated, but I think cruise lines know this:
https://news.yahoo.com/news/windstar-cr ... 11929.html
I already posted how the UK is now scrambling for more domestic supply. Since the EU prohibits exports, there us no reason anyone should discuss with EU vendors at this time.
If AZ is so bad, why is the EU asking for 10 million AZ doses from India?
https://www.msn.com/en-au/lifestyle/wel ... NewsSearch
Oh the irony...
Lightsaber
lightsaber wrote:The messaging is incredibly mixed
lightsaber wrote:The on/off again would spook every vax-hesitant person I know.
lightsaber wrote:I believe my links adequately show that is growing because of how the EU is mis-managing communication.
par13del wrote:Is this another case where posters need to be specific about EU and member nations and EU and member nation health authorities? A 14 day halt then should have been close to end of month.
https://www.dw.com/en/covid-several-eur ... a-56835406
lightsaber wrote:The messaging is incredibly mixed. What statement is misleading? The on/off again would spook every vax-hesitant person I know. The public relations on AZ is going to scare people.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/18/euro ... index.html
The European Medicines Agency (EMA)'s executive director Emer Cooke said the agency had "come to a clear scientific conclusion: this is a safe and effective vaccine."
But experts fear that some damage has already been done. In France, an Elabe poll showed this week that only 22% of the population now trusts the AstraZeneca vaccine. Remi Salomon, a senior French hospitals official, told BFM TV on Thursday that "people are being overly cautious" in the country and that he feared "people will not interpret" the suspensions in "the right way."
"A scare like this has the potential to increase vaccine hesitancy," Michael Head, senior research fellow in Global Health at the University of Southampton in Britain, told CNN earlier in the week. "These vaccines are to protect against a pandemic virus. There is an urgency to the rollout."[/i]
https://www.fool.com/investing/2021/03/ ... cas-covid/
“Just the fact that this question mark has been raised will feed into conspiracy theories about the state and pharmaceutical companies hiding evidence of the dangerous side effects of vaccines, which seems to be the root of a lot of anti-vaxxer messages,”
lightsaber wrote:If AZ is so bad, why is the EU asking for 10 million AZ doses from India?
https://www.msn.com/en-au/lifestyle/wel ... NewsSearch
lightsaber wrote:recent Wellcome Trust poll showed that only 47 percent of the French population believed that vaccines are safe, and according to an Ipsos-World Economic Forum survey from last December, only 40 percent of the French planned to get vaccinated, followed by 62 percent of Italians and Spaniards, and 65 percent of Germans.
Europe has a bad vaccine hesitancy issue. Over-dramatizing vaccine dangers will, in my opinion, enhance that hesitancy
lightsaber wrote:So you accused me of being misleading. I don't feel I am being misleading. I was trying to point out the probabilities of risk! There is a 1.6% chance of long haul side effects per my prior link in the UK. errr... every report is not above the background rate for clots.
30 in 11 million or 2.72 E-6 that is 0.000027% in the UK (I use UK data as they have the easiest to find full data)
https://www.metro.us/uk-regulator-found-total/
lightsaber wrote:Since vaccines so decrease risk, in particular if a lot of people have taken them...
This is a vaccine that continues to prove it is incredibly effective in the UK. Is is the cornerstone of a successful vaccine drive. I hope the EU gets more of it.
When I see statistically normal clots once again stopping vaccination campaigns, I get the idea that the EU decision makers don't know statistics and risk assessment.
Risk vaccine death, I'll take France: 95976 of 4,695,082 cases or 2%
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
lightsaber wrote:
Did you miss my posts in the main Covid19 thread where I have been frustrated AZ isn't available in the USA?
The next wave has started (in the USA, see New Jersey's data in worldometer... a lot of cases for a moderate population.
Maybe it is the American tendency that if you are always finding fault with something, fault that isn't really fault, then why are you demanding it?
All my doctor friends working coronavirus are getting frustrated at the vax-hesitancy this creating. I believe my links adequately show that is growing because of how the EU is mis-managing communication.
lightsaber wrote:Meh... I qualify for vaccine now locally, I will get it soon. If AZ were available in the USA, I would get it. As you noted, it is not. Now I care for my kids and I would give them AZ tomorrow if it was available.
I believe I have been very consistent on vaccinate as early as possible, In my opinion, that is the success of the UK vaccination drive.
Lightsaber
ElPistolero wrote:
seahawk wrote:Good analysis on EU´s the failure of getting people vaccines.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/worl ... ccine.html
And one extra about the utter and complete failure of Germany in the crisis.
https://www.ft.com/content/bc5a3b02-a90 ... ada29feba2
Olddog wrote:seahawk wrote:Good analysis on EU´s the failure of getting people vaccines.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/worl ... ccine.html
And one extra about the utter and complete failure of Germany in the crisis.
https://www.ft.com/content/bc5a3b02-a90 ... ada29feba2
Yes more US sources....
Olddog wrote:seahawk wrote:Good analysis on EU´s the failure of getting people vaccines.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/worl ... ccine.html
And one extra about the utter and complete failure of Germany in the crisis.
https://www.ft.com/content/bc5a3b02-a90 ... ada29feba2
Yes more US sources....