Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
flyguy89
Topic Author
Posts: 3383
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:06 pm

The EU has proposed potentially sweeping new rules against vegan and non-dairy products (almond milk, oat milk, soy yogurt, etc), ostensibly at the behest of the dairy industry. The new rules would not only restrict the use of the word “milk” in the names of these products, but also proposes restrictions on packaging or even images of the product itself that look at all similar to dairy milk.

https://theconversation.com/vegan-dairy ... ext-153564

But if new rules known as Amendment 171 are approved, producers will not be able to use terms or imagery on packaging which refer to or evoke dairy products.

If interpreted broadly, the amendment could prevent them from including claims or denominations such as “dairy”, “creamy”, “yoghurt-style dessert” or “does not contain milk”. They would also be unable to use packaging designs that call to mind dairy products, such as yoghurt pots or milk cartons. Even simply showing climate impact by comparing the carbon footprint of their products with dairy equivalents could become illegal.


Some states in the US have tried to pass similar regulation, although some of the more onerous versions have been successfully avoided on free speech grounds.
 
User avatar
T18
Posts: 798
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:28 am

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:12 pm

Not sure I follow the logic of forbidding the use of "does not contain milk" I can understand the thought on not allowing the use of the words Dairy or Milk on products that do not contain Milk/Dairy products. I can even follow not allowing Bovine imagery on the package for example, this proposition seems to be intentional over zealous so as to make the 'compromise' version I suspect they have waiting look way nicer to the oppositions.
“Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting.” ― Steve McQueen (Le Mans) 1971
 
JJJ
Posts: 4071
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:35 pm

T18 wrote:
Not sure I follow the logic of forbidding the use of "does not contain milk" I can understand the thought on not allowing the use of the words Dairy or Milk on products that do not contain Milk/Dairy products. I can even follow not allowing Bovine imagery on the package for example, this proposition seems to be intentional over zealous so as to make the 'compromise' version I suspect they have waiting look way nicer to the oppositions.


Probably. They could also introduce bans on the dairy industry using terms like "cow juice" or "meat-based cauliflower" as a quid pro quo.
 
User avatar
Thunderboltdrgn
Posts: 2236
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:39 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:58 pm

T18 wrote:
Not sure I follow the logic of forbidding the use of "does not contain milk" I can understand the thought on not allowing the use of the words Dairy or Milk on products that do not contain Milk/Dairy products. I can even follow not allowing Bovine imagery on the package for example, this proposition seems to be intentional over zealous so as to make the 'compromise' version I suspect they have waiting look way nicer to the oppositions.


ÌIRC we have similar bans in Sweden and the issue is not the word "milk". The issue here is that the product information should only have information about
the actual contents/ingredients and not about what it not contains. At least that what I think it is (without having read the article).

To be honest I can understand the logic behind the reasoning where the important is what the products (like food) actually contains/what the actual ingredients are.
What it doesn't contain is not really important because there are allot of stuff that there probably aren't present in a certain food product and then the package
would be full of does not contain this, does not contain that and etc.
Last edited by Thunderboltdrgn on Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
bennett123
Posts: 10817
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:58 pm

Has anyone used the terms 'cowjuice' or 'meat based cauliflower'?.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4884
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:09 pm

EU better get used to the coming reality, much 'meat' will be vegetable based, as are a lot of the 'milks' sold. US rules generally are that it may use the terms but it needs to be entirely clear that they are vegetable based. (LOL, come to think of it, so are most meats and milks). Many of us are planning on a partial switchover for a whole variety of reasons. Or a further LOL, do you want organic apples, 'no, I want manufactured apples, they are cheaper.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
VSMUT
Posts: 5498
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:57 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
EU better get used to the coming reality, much 'meat' will be vegetable based, as are a lot of the 'milks' sold. US rules generally are that it may use the terms but it needs to be entirely clear that they are vegetable based. (LOL, come to think of it, so are most meats and milks). Many of us are planning on a partial switchover for a whole variety of reasons. Or a further LOL, do you want organic apples, 'no, I want manufactured apples, they are cheaper.


All the more reason to make clear rules on marketing, branding and packaging. Its about time alternative products start making an image for themselves anyway, and I say that as a regular consumer of several that will be affected by this.

IMO, the dairy industry is foolish if they think this will make a difference. It is too late for that, the cat is out of the bag. But I applaud the move.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15719
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:00 pm

For decades, the USA state of Wisconsin banned margarine or in some states the yellow coloring had to be mixed in by the consumer to protect their dairy farmers. Some of these dairy substitutes have their own issues. Almonds used to make a milk like beverage require massive amounts of water to raise, in places like California where water is scarce.
In the USA, we can use terms for USA produced wine and related products that cannot be used in the EU or elsewhere, like any USA sparkling wine can be called Champaign or for domestically made cheese 'Swiss', 'Cheddar', 'Mozzarella' for similar styles of cheese that the EU has strict use of.
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 8655
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:03 am

I don't have an issue with using "milk" to describe it; but to call it "dairy" would be illogical. That being said, given that we associate "milk" with the liquid that female mammals produce to feed their young, I would think that the plant industry needs a different name (I mean, soaking almonds in water until it turns white is not the image of milk I want...and I've tried using almond milk for oatmeal, but it doesn't thicken like regular milk does).
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
flyguy89
Topic Author
Posts: 3383
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:51 am

I switched to almond milk a while ago for the most part except for cooking where I’ll still use regular milk. I’m not too incredibly bothered by not using “milk” to describe them...Trader Joe’s already calls their brand “Almond Beverage.” What I do find preposterous are the potential restrictions on the size/shapes of packaging or the use of product images (these non-dairy substitutes do typically just look like dairy, it would be ridiculous to say they couldn’t feature an image of almond milk being poured for example). Ridiculousness aside, I really fail to see where the consumer harm is occurring that would necessitate these regulations, especially considering the extant nutrition and ingredient labeling requirements.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14415
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:57 am

Thunderboltdrgn : the rules on mentioning contents allow producers to not put on the label stuff that is in trace amounts (unless they're allergens) so they don't tell you that there might be all kinds of unsavory stuff (insect parts for example), it seems reasonable then to not let them mention what isn't in it.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
JJJ
Posts: 4071
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:31 am

bennett123 wrote:
Has anyone used the terms 'cowjuice' or 'meat based cauliflower'?.


Sounds ridiculous right? So does "Soy milk" or "vegan steak".
 
bennett123
Posts: 10817
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:48 am

One that I have heard is a Vegan Pork Pie.

No kidding.
 
Arion640
Posts: 3257
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:49 am

Well done EU. Great decision.
 
JJJ
Posts: 4071
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:53 am

bennett123 wrote:
One that I have heard is a Vegan Pork Pie.

No kidding.


That takes the prize, and competition is tough.
 
jamincan
Posts: 588
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:28 am

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:22 pm

People have used milk to describe both the liquid produced by mammary glands, as well as other liquids that bear a resemblance to them for far longer than non-dairy beverages have been a thing (see: milk of magnesia, coconut milk, milk weed, etc..). Do regulators really think that consumers are being harmed by deceptive marketing on the part of non-dairy milk beverage producers?
 
N867DA
Posts: 1367
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:53 am

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:25 pm

Sounds like they are pandering due to political pressure. This is a protectionist measure that is not needed. Coconut milk, peanut butter (largely a US thing, but an example), and rose hips, and apple skins have been things forever.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
marcelh
Posts: 1444
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:29 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Well done EU. Great decision.

Well, it’s less worse than calling that yellow-ish liquid “beer” they are serving in British pubs... :spit:
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 3233
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:11 pm

marcelh wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Well done EU. Great decision.

Well, it’s less worse than calling that yellow-ish liquid “beer” they are serving in British pubs... :spit:


Well, I'm afraid calling that yellow-ish liquid “beer” is not just British specialty. I'm afraid this problem is widespread. Corona or Tecate anyone?
And did I mention the liquid that starts as a beer-ish liquid and then all alcohol is removed? Since the same process removes all the esters and fusil alcohols that give beer taste, these components are replenished. Why can that be called beer?
223, 310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 7M8, 739, 744, 752, 753, 762, 763, 77E, 77L, 77W, 788, 789, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR7, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E70, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
marcelh
Posts: 1444
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:24 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Well done EU. Great decision.

Well, it’s less worse than calling that yellow-ish liquid “beer” they are serving in British pubs... :spit:


Well, I'm afraid calling that yellow-ish liquid “beer” is not just British specialty. I'm afraid this problem is widespread. Corona or Tecate anyone?
And did I mention the liquid that starts as a beer-ish liquid and then all alcohol is removed? Since the same process removes all the esters and fusil alcohols that give beer taste, these components are replenished. Why can that be called beer?

Our friend has some issues with continental Europe, so I just mentioned the “beer” in the land of unicorns and rainbows. Just take a Belgian beer (and you don’t have to take a Westvleteren XII - OTOH why won’t you) and you will understand.
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 5558
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:35 pm

Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
T18 wrote:
Not sure I follow the logic of forbidding the use of "does not contain milk" I can understand the thought on not allowing the use of the words Dairy or Milk on products that do not contain Milk/Dairy products. I can even follow not allowing Bovine imagery on the package for example, this proposition seems to be intentional over zealous so as to make the 'compromise' version I suspect they have waiting look way nicer to the oppositions.


ÌIRC we have similar bans in Sweden and the issue is not the word "milk". The issue here is that the product information should only have information about
the actual contents/ingredients and not about what it not contains. At least that what I think it is (without having read the article).

To be honest I can understand the logic behind the reasoning where the important is what the products (like food) actually contains/what the actual ingredients are.
What it doesn't contain is not really important because there are allot of stuff that there probably aren't present in a certain food product and then the package
would be full of does not contain this, does not contain that and etc.

Then is it also banned to say a food have "No MSG", "sugar free", "no added sugar", "did not use preservative" or "not genetically modified"?
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
Fitting foreign event into local context for lessons will only be able to tell local values instead of foreign ones
You're now at your youngest moment in your remaining life
 
DTVG
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:06 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:54 pm

Nothing new here, the EU is a hostage of the agricultural lobby. Just have a look how 35% of their budget goes towards farming.
It’s particularly ridiculous to see how governments subsidies (and promote) environmentally damaging and unhealthy diets, such as dairy and meat products.
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 5109
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:24 pm

marcelh wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Well done EU. Great decision.

Well, it’s less worse than calling that yellow-ish liquid “beer” they are serving in British pubs... :spit:


You mean lager, right? Beers in every english pub I have frequented in my life have always been of various shades of brown, while lagers are always golden yellow. And then theres stouts and ales.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 5498
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:39 pm

DTVG wrote:
Nothing new here, the EU is a hostage of the agricultural lobby. Just have a look how 35% of their budget goes towards farming.
It’s particularly ridiculous to see how governments subsidies (and promote) environmentally damaging and unhealthy diets, such as dairy and meat products.


Which is actually a rather cheap price to pay for an independent and secure supply supply of food and agriculture year round, with relatively stable prices to boot. You only have to look to Norway to see what fun they have when they run out of cheese, butter, chickens or yeast every few years. They were running short of milk in late 2020.

Not that the entire EU setup can't use an update of course.
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 3233
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:14 am

marcelh wrote:
Our friend has some issues with continental Europe, so I just mentioned the “beer” in the land of unicorns and rainbows. Just take a Belgian beer (and you don’t have to take a Westvleteren XII - OTOH why won’t you) and you will understand.


I'll rather stay with our North American beers. I gave 13 years of my life to a "Belgian" brewing company and it would be enough for five lifetimes. I know that not every Belgian beer comes from Leuven, but enough is enough.
223, 310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 7M8, 739, 744, 752, 753, 762, 763, 77E, 77L, 77W, 788, 789, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR7, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E70, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14561
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:53 am

JJJ wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Has anyone used the terms 'cowjuice' or 'meat based cauliflower'?.


Sounds ridiculous right? So does "Soy milk" or "vegan steak".


Actually... plenty of fruit juice is called milk or milky (milky sap in lots of plants) and "steak" etymologly just mean stick, as in putting something on a stick to roast it, and hence is wrong for most steaks, but correct for corn grilled on a stick. Language can change extremely fast....

Now dairy is of course a different story.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Virtual737
Posts: 1153
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:00 am

If the intention of the laws are to stop consumers being misled as to what they are buying then bravo. However if it is to protect an industry from progress that effects everything with no regard to the fact that our tastes and habits evolve over time then...no thanks.
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13494
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:07 am

tommy1808 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Has anyone used the terms 'cowjuice' or 'meat based cauliflower'?.


Sounds ridiculous right? So does "Soy milk" or "vegan steak".


Actually... plenty of fruit juice is called milk or milky (milky sap in lots of plants) and "steak" etymologly just mean stick, as in putting something on a stick to roast it, and hence is wrong for most steaks, but correct for corn grilled on a stick. Language can change extremely fast....

Now dairy is of course a different story.

best regards
Thomas


That must be a German thing calling fruit juices milk or milky.

We all know what a steak is, playing world games like you are don't change the what the vast majority of people consider a steak to be. Beside's steak is old Norse in origin steik, where it means meat on a stick, not fruit, vegetables or some meat substitute.

I applaud the EU for jumping in to this, calling milks produced from plant or nuts milk is disingenuous, I hope it gets passed.
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13494
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:19 am

N867DA wrote:
Sounds like they are pandering due to political pressure. This is a protectionist measure that is not needed. Coconut milk, peanut butter (largely a US thing, but an example), and rose hips, and apple skins have been things forever.


How is peanut butter largely a US thing? Are you suggesting that countries outside of the US don't enjoy peanut butter?? Peanut butter isn't even American, on a per capita basis Canadians and Dutch consume more peanut butter the the US does.

Why I'm mentioning this is last week my daughter had to pick a food and research it, she chose peanut butter, I helped.
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13494
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:23 am

VSMUT wrote:
DTVG wrote:
Nothing new here, the EU is a hostage of the agricultural lobby. Just have a look how 35% of their budget goes towards farming.
It’s particularly ridiculous to see how governments subsidies (and promote) environmentally damaging and unhealthy diets, such as dairy and meat products.


Which is actually a rather cheap price to pay for an independent and secure supply supply of food and agriculture year round, with relatively stable prices to boot. You only have to look to Norway to see what fun they have when they run out of cheese, butter, chickens or yeast every few years. They were running short of milk in late 2020.

Not that the entire EU setup can't use an update of course.


Norway's dairy issues are mostly do to quotas, there's more than enough milk produced by farmers but once they produce there quota the rest is dumped. There were no shortages of butter or milk end of 2020, the supermarkets around where i live still had full shelves, unlike a few years ago where butter was in short supply.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14561
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:26 am

Kiwirob wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

Sounds ridiculous right? So does "Soy milk" or "vegan steak".


Actually... plenty of fruit juice is called milk or milky (milky sap in lots of plants) and "steak" etymologly just mean stick, as in putting something on a stick to roast it, and hence is wrong for most steaks, but correct for corn grilled on a stick. Language can change extremely fast....

Now dairy is of course a different story.

best regards
Thomas


That must be a German thing calling fruit juices milk or milky.


it seems you never heard about coconut milk... just for starters. Of the hundreds of plants where the juices are called milky sap https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?se ... +sap&ns0=1

We all know what a steak is, playing world games like you are don't change the what the vast majority of people consider a steak to be. Beside's steak is old Norse in origin steik, where it means meat on a stick, not fruit, vegetables or some meat substitute..


Everyone knows what a tofu steak is, if you call something just steak you don´t even know if it is pork, beef or thuna, the word itself is useless without a leading indicator word.
Same for milk... Cow? Goat? Horse?

And its Proto-Germanic and means stick, that is where old Norse got it from. https://www.etymonline.com/word/steak

Legislating change out of language is stupid, and will not ever work. There is zero chance anyone will buy "vegan steak", open it up at home and be surprised it ain´t buffelo.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
flyguy89
Topic Author
Posts: 3383
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:58 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Legislating change out of language is stupid, and will not ever work. There is zero chance anyone will buy "vegan steak", open it up at home and be surprised it ain´t buffelo.

best regards
Thomas

:checkmark:

No amount of legislation is going to prevent people from using certain words once they enter the popular lexicon. I don’t know about other languages outside English and French, but no one will stop calling it almond milk or vegan cheese simply because the law tries to say otherwise.
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13494
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:01 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Actually... plenty of fruit juice is called milk or milky (milky sap in lots of plants) and "steak" etymologly just mean stick, as in putting something on a stick to roast it, and hence is wrong for most steaks, but correct for corn grilled on a stick. Language can change extremely fast....

Now dairy is of course a different story.

best regards
Thomas


That must be a German thing calling fruit juices milk or milky.


it seems you never heard about coconut milk... just for starters. Of the hundreds of plants where the juices are called milky sap https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?se ... +sap&ns0=1

We all know what a steak is, playing world games like you are don't change the what the vast majority of people consider a steak to be. Beside's steak is old Norse in origin steik, where it means meat on a stick, not fruit, vegetables or some meat substitute..


Everyone knows what a tofu steak is, if you call something just steak you don´t even know if it is pork, beef or thuna, the word itself is useless without a leading indicator word.
Same for milk... Cow? Goat? Horse?

And its Proto-Germanic and means stick, that is where old Norse got it from. https://www.etymonline.com/word/steak

Legislating change out of language is stupid, and will not ever work. There is zero chance anyone will buy "vegan steak", open it up at home and be surprised it ain´t buffelo.

best regards
Thomas


There is a difference between coconut milk and coconut juice, the juice is coconut water, what is inside of the coconut, the milk is ground up coconut with added water. Coconut milk should be advertised as milk because it isn't.

I'm talking the Oxford dictionary over you Thomas https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. ... ak?q=steak

steak
/steɪk/

Middle English: from Old Norse steik ; related to steikja ‘roast on a spit’ and stikna ‘be roasted’

I've never been anywhere or head anyone other than a vegan refer to tofu as steak, normal humans know steaks come from fish or animals.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14561
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:18 am

Kiwirob wrote:
I'm talking the Oxford dictionary over you Thomas https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. ... ak?q=steak


its not like i provided a source or something ....

I've never been anywhere or head anyone other than a vegan refer to tofu as steak, normal humans know steaks come from fish or animals.


I know plenty of people that call Soy, Almond, Oat milk milk, and plenty of people that refer to almost anything flat fried in a pan as steak if it isn´t plain fried veggies. Even the near pathological "its not a meal if it doesn´t have meat" say "zucchini steak", for the simple reason that is isn´t a mouth full like "zucchini slices blanched and coated with a breading of breadcrumbs and cereals fried in a pan", since "normal" people know what is referred to when people say "zucchini steak".

The discussion is just the next round of "Same sex couples can´t get married, because marriage is between a man and a woman" nonsense. Steak is whatever the hell people in the room understand correctly. Even someone pointing out a "zucchini steak isn´t a steak" must be perfectly aware what exactly that is, or they couldn´t even make that point. Could be a meat steak with zucchini filling after all.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
VSMUT
Posts: 5498
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:46 am

tommy1808 wrote:
it seems you never heard about coconut milk... just for starters.


Growing up in the tropics, I swore it was always coconut juice or coconut water.

Marketing like this (random photo found on google) is just misleading. The liquid that comes out of a coconut looks nothing like that.

Image
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14561
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:50 am

VSMUT wrote:
Marketing like this (random photo found on google) is just misleading. The liquid that comes out of a coconut looks nothing like that


Yup, and people that never had a real coconut wouldn´t even know that.
But then again, how much food packaging is there that isn´t missleading. As a room of thumb one can pretty much assume that if is says anything resembling "Healthy" on the package, it ain´t.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
VSMUT
Posts: 5498
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:01 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Yup, and people that never had a real coconut wouldn´t even know that.


Until they open the can or jar and the contents look nothing like the packaging.


tommy1808 wrote:
But then again, how much food packaging is there that isn´t missleading. As a room of thumb one can pretty much assume that if is says anything resembling "Healthy" on the package, it ain´t.

best regards
Thomas


Food packaging shouldn't be misleading. That's why we have rules and regulations to combat that.

It mostly isn't an issue where I shop. But in my experience German supermarkets, at least some of them, at pretty horrible when it comes to misleading packaging.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14561
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:11 am

VSMUT wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Yup, and people that never had a real coconut wouldn´t even know that.


Until they open the can or jar and the contents look nothing like the packaging.


actually, when you open up coconut milk, at least all i ever had, it does look like that. And where it doesn´t, it says "Coconut Water" on the outside, since the most peoples expectation for coconut juice would be the milky stuff. But for the package in your picture it would definitely be a WTH moment, and plenty would probably assume it just went bad, since milk separates like that when it goes bad.

tommy1808 wrote:
But then again, how much food packaging is there that isn´t missleading. As a room of thumb one can pretty much assume that if is says anything resembling "Healthy" on the package, it ain´t.

best regards
Thomas


Food packaging shouldn't be misleading. That's why we have rules and regulations to combat that.

It mostly isn't an issue where I shop. But in my experience German supermarkets, at least some of them, at pretty horrible when it comes to misleading packaging.


Absolutely. And even the naming rules are nonsense.... (refined) sugar free chocolate can´t be called chocolate, can´t have a sugar free lemonade, because by law lemonade must have sugar. The sugar lobby is mighty.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
VSMUT
Posts: 5498
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:24 am

tommy1808 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Yup, and people that never had a real coconut wouldn´t even know that.


Until they open the can or jar and the contents look nothing like the packaging.


actually, when you open up coconut milk, at least all i ever had, it does look like that.


In which case it should clearly say that it is processed in some way. But milk it definitely is not.
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13494
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:13 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
I'm talking the Oxford dictionary over you Thomas https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. ... ak?q=steak


its not like i provided a source or something ....

Thomas


I prefer my source to your source.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14561
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:30 am

Kiwirob wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
I'm talking the Oxford dictionary over you Thomas https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. ... ak?q=steak


its not like i provided a source or something ....

Thomas


I prefer my source to your source.


ah.. confirmation bias at its best, especially considering your source is the Oxford Dictionary, and not the proper source of Etymology, "The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology" from the same publisher... so lets just dismiss an actual Etymological source that is sourced from here to the moon ... https://www.etymonline.com/columns/post/sources

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Sokes
Posts: 2773
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:04 pm

Since almond milk is much costlier than cow milk I don't see much risk of mislabeling. But in India cheese based on soybean is sold without clearly saying so. One has to look for "milk solids" in the contents.

If a product is sold as tofu steak I shall assume it's not based on meat.

In a pub/ restaurant a friend once ordered a curry sausage. It was vegan, but the menu didn't say so. Turned out it was a place mostly visited by gays which only had vegan food. Why not to call it tofu curry sausage in the menu?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 11231
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:29 pm

How about "milking something, "to milk". Have you ever been milked? (No, I am NOT implying that, you're just thinking it now.)

People are milked everyday for information or money.

"Milk" is a more generic term that is used to describe something or an action. Commonly in the past it referred to mammals lactate but the word came to be applied further and then went on to describe and be used for myriad products so that the public could easily understand what the product was to be used for.

Some may not like it, and as many note there is a war going on in agri-business over terms that some want protected in an attempt to slow or reduce changes in dietary habits, but in my opinion "milk" is fine to be used as it is by the businesses as long as it presents to the public what it is and is used as part of showing what it is for.

And in fact, the dairy industry is also using "Milk" as simple descriptor, so if insisting on accuracy why not require them to state clearly on their product "Mammal Lactate"?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
Sokes
Posts: 2773
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:47 pm

Tugger wrote:
"Milk" is a more generic term that is used to describe something or an action.

When I buy milk in the supermarket, I buy the noun, not the verb.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 11231
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:51 pm

Sokes wrote:
Tugger wrote:
"Milk" is a more generic term that is used to describe something or an action.

When I buy milk in the supermarket, I buy the noun, not the verb.

Yes, and you buy it because it is the item you can put on or in various things that you then consume.

Do you buy the mammal lactate or something else? Or perhaps you only purchase bovine lactate and only think of that when you buy milk?
:spin:
Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
Sokes
Posts: 2773
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:11 pm

Tugger wrote:
Or perhaps you only purchase bovine lactate and only think of that when you buy milk?
:spin:
Tugg

Well, so far I never thought of my wife milking me while buying milk. But thanks to our conversation going to the supermarket may be a lot more pleasant in future.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 1154
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:59 pm

As long as things are clearly labelled, does it matter?
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 11231
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:36 pm

Sokes wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Or perhaps you only purchase bovine lactate and only think of that when you buy milk?
:spin:
Tugg

Well, so far I never thought of my wife milking me while buying milk. But thanks to our conversation going to the supermarket may be a lot more pleasant in future.

:rotfl: ...
Glad I could make someone smile today!
As I wrote that earlier post I thought "Ohh..!" and had to add my self commentary.

And thanks for making me smile too! :-)

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
sevenair
Posts: 3007
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:14 am

Good old EU and its firm grasp of the non-essential.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 3700
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

Re: EU Proposes Massive Restrictions on Vegan Dairy

Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:57 am

Just because it is non-essential doesn't mean it doesn't have to be regulated, does it?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: L0VE2FLY, Paars and 26 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos