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FGITD
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:42 pm

"Damn these automobiles, leaving horse crap all over the roads!"

-Texas, 100 years ago

It seems like in general when there's a failure, it's more likely to be the fault of the infrastructure you have now, and not the one that you might build in the future.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:54 pm

petertenthije wrote:
Sokes wrote:
I believe coal plants always have a steam reserve to be able to react to frequency fluctuations. I don't know how to compensate this. Spinning wheel, batteries and pumped storage comes to mind. But I believe even pumped storage takes several seconds to react.

There was a proposal a few years ago, not much more then a thought experiment really, to turn the IJsselmeer into a massive power storage.

The idea was to build a water storage tank several KMs across and several metres above waterlevel, and to put it in the middle of the IJsselmeer lake. During periods of low power consumption the storage tank would be filled using electric pumps powered by a steady power source running at best economical power. Nuclear was one of the proposals.

During periods of high power consumption the storage would be drained back into the IJsselmeer, and this would create power same as a hydro-dam does.

At the time the economics where unfeasible, as well as environmental concerns. Maybe this proposal should get another look. With the number of electric vehicles steadily growing, we'll need more and more electricy.


Pumped hydro needs as much height difference as possible, a few meters will not be very efficient. In fact it would make more sense to build a tidal power plant.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Okie
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:53 pm

Aesma wrote:
Pumped hydro needs as much height difference as possible, a few meters will not be very efficient. In fact it would make more sense to build a tidal power plant.


High tide today at Galveston is .95ft, Low tide -.16.

Not sure you are going to do just a whole lot with 1.11ft of water open to the GOM.

Okie
 
johns624
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:39 pm

Texans may still love Rafael but he just kissed his dream of living in the White House goodbye, unless a president lets him spend the night on a sleepover.
I'm on another, very conservative outdoors forum. So many of his defenders were saying "it's okay, there's nothing he could have done". I responded "it's like when a close friend or relative is very sick or dying, there's nothing you can do but you're still there to support them". All I heard was crickets...
 
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casinterest
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:28 pm

Texans are going to be getting livid the next few weeks.

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-envir ... igh-as-17k

Griddy had recommended that customers switch to a different provider this week, warning them to find fixed-rate plans instead as it predicted the climbing cost of electricity due to the spiking demand. But many customers who tried to switch said other companies were not accepting new customers until weeks into the future, leaving them stuck with their large bills.

Ty Williams told WFAA in Dallas that he normally spends $660 for his home, guest house and office electric bills each month. His new bill after the rate spike exceeded $17,000.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:13 pm

Water damage is happening in untold numbers of Texas homes, as predicted. So sorry for these people...

https://youtu.be/_K3ZpiJZJXM
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Okie
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:21 pm

casinterest wrote:
Texans are going to be getting livid the next few weeks.

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-envir ... igh-as-17k

Griddy had recommended that customers switch to a different provider this week, warning them to find fixed-rate plans instead as it predicted the climbing cost of electricity due to the spiking demand. But many customers who tried to switch said other companies were not accepting new customers until weeks into the future, leaving them stuck with their large bills.

Ty Williams told WFAA in Dallas that he normally spends $660 for his home, guest house and office electric bills each month. His new bill after the rate spike exceeded $17,000.


Not to be out done Centerpoint Energy sent out $200,000.00 natural gas bills in emails.
At least they are errors.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo ... r-BB1dO88W

Now is the time to remove your utility bills from auto-pay especially if you have overdraft protection with loan shark rates.

Okie
 
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Aesma
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:33 pm

You can't really blame the companies though, they play the game according to the rules.

Well, they might have bribed some politicians to write the rules, but maybe not.

In the US people should be familiar with the concept of variable rates skyrocketing, it cost millions of people their homes in 2008 after all.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
FGITD
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:36 pm

johns624 wrote:
Texans may still love Rafael but he just kissed his dream of living in the White House goodbye, unless a president lets him spend the night on a sleepover.
I'm on another, very conservative outdoors forum. So many of his defenders were saying "it's okay, there's nothing he could have done". I responded "it's like when a close friend or relative is very sick or dying, there's nothing you can do but you're still there to support them". All I heard was crickets...


It’s a baseless argument. There’s always something to do during a disaster. Especially when you’re in a position where just driving around and talking to people will help.

Meanwhile AOC is down there volunteering and fundraising. Go figure, it almost seems like she wants to help Americans regardless of political affiliation or if they even live in her district. Damn libs and their socialism
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:41 am

FGITD wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Texans may still love Rafael but he just kissed his dream of living in the White House goodbye, unless a president lets him spend the night on a sleepover.
I'm on another, very conservative outdoors forum. So many of his defenders were saying "it's okay, there's nothing he could have done". I responded "it's like when a close friend or relative is very sick or dying, there's nothing you can do but you're still there to support them". All I heard was crickets...


It’s a baseless argument. There’s always something to do during a disaster. Especially when you’re in a position where just driving around and talking to people will help.

Meanwhile AOC is down there volunteering and fundraising. Go figure, it almost seems like she wants to help Americans regardless of political affiliation or if they even live in her district. Damn libs and their socialism

Has anyone heard from Cornyn? Meanwhile the porno pirate has tweeted twice since 2/16, including one retweet of the boil water notice. He's probably busy making another self indulgent video somewhere and bashing AOC. But not to worry both senators have asked Biden for help, because you know, no step on snek but we sure could use some of that socialism right now. :roll:
I don't take responsibility at all
 
johns624
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:57 am

Do you think that Rafael thought to himself "Gee, if I hadn't made that anti-Biden speech on January 6th, maybe I could call him up and lobby for some help?" Nah...
 
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Aesma
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:05 am

So it turns out the GOP in Texas since at least W's time took massive bribes err contributions to set up things as they are : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26V5CMYoab8
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:10 am

johns624 wrote:
Do you think that Rafael thought to himself "Gee, if I hadn't made that anti-Biden speech on January 6th, maybe I could call him up and lobby for some help?" Nah...

I'm honestly shocked--SHOCKED--that 1) he said he was sorry for his CUN trip and 2) he was contrite about crapping on California for their power outages and wild fires. Maybe he is a real boy after all.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
StarAC17
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:35 am

CitizenJustin wrote:
moo wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Democracy happens, the voters elected representatives who chose cost over winterization. They choose to save money, as winter events are rare in TX, and lost. Pretty simple trade-offs really. No one should bail them out, least of all the clown show we call politics or worse the Congress.


Seriously, is “not giving a toss about your fellow countrypeople” an actual national sport in the US? The levels to which Americans seem to go just to be able to say “sucks to be you” or “told ya so” to another American is simply astonishing.


As long as it isn’t happening to them, they don’t care. When it does, they’re the victims and expect support from the government. Someone wrote an OP/ED on CNN and said “this isn’t the way America is supposed to function.” After all, we’re only the wealthiest first world democracy in ehuman history on paper. Realistically? Not so much.


Yep, I hope these @$$hat GOP politicians have their come to Jesus moment but if fires hit California this summer they will vote to deny aid to them like usual.

I do feel sorry for the people of Texas as living this must be horrible. I live in Canada and we are used to this and if we didn't have the infrastructure to deal with it it would be miserable. However it's predictable here, same with anyone living in an area that gets snow.

One thing that needs to be thought about is whether or not this is an acceptable risk or does a state like Texas plan for this happening regularly. This has been predicted by climate scientists that the polar jet stream will dip down like this more often. It's more than simply electricity, pipes bursting are an obvious issue as well. Texas isn't alone this Winter. Athens has seen snow and so has Israel.

I know from the photos that the water pipes would need to be insulated and lowered below the frost line to ensure that the won't freeze in these conditions (they may be already, not 100% sure of Texas building codes) You can legislate this for new construction but to retrofit would cost billions. Again not sure if the pipes bursting was because of main lines or ones in homes without adequate heat and the freezing happened above the surface. If the latter then the code should not have any piping outside insulation and insulation needs to be upgraded. This all is a cost/benefit analysis that Texans have to vote on
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
johns624
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:45 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Do you think that Rafael thought to himself "Gee, if I hadn't made that anti-Biden speech on January 6th, maybe I could call him up and lobby for some help?" Nah...

I'm honestly shocked--SHOCKED--that 1) he said he was sorry for his CUN trip and 2) he was contrite about crapping on California for their power outages and wild fires. Maybe he is a real boy after all.
He had his fingers crossed so he didn't really mean it.
 
johns624
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:47 am

StarAC17 wrote:
[
I do feel sorry for the people of Texas as living this must be horrible.
I feel sorry for individual people who live in Texas, but for the collective Texans, I don't have the least bit of empathy for their arrogant selves.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:47 am

Is there a way to winterize Natural gas wellheads to prevent them from freezing up in extreme cold? The limited natural gas delivery caused problems for homes and businesses that heat by natural gas. Heat in an office, plant, or school building in extreme cold is vital to prevent the pressurized fire suppression pipes from bursting.

Add to that, no heat in an all electric home, because natural gas flow has been restricted to power generation plants, because of frozen natural gas wellheads.

And then, there's the power generation plants, of all kinds, that need to be winterized.

That's my 2 1/2 cents...
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
WIederling
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:16 pm

casinterest wrote:
Texans are going to be getting livid the next few weeks.

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-envir ... igh-as-17k

Griddy had recommended that customers switch to a different provider this week, warning them to find fixed-rate plans instead as it predicted the climbing cost of electricity due to the spiking demand. But many customers who tried to switch said other companies were not accepting new customers until weeks into the future, leaving them stuck with their large bills.

Ty Williams told WFAA in Dallas that he normally spends $660 for his home, guest house and office electric bills each month. His new bill after the rate spike exceeded $17,000.


money path is not energy path along the _single_ grid. ( i.e. you do nothing for reliability by changing providers.
oxymoron like providers ( and customers ) going for "green energy only" plans.)

super efficient selffixing market. hahaha.
Murphy is an optimist
 
WIederling
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:20 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Is there a way to winterize Natural gas wellheads to prevent them from freezing up in extreme cold?


get some help from the Russians.
Murphy is an optimist
 
WIederling
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:22 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
That's my 2 1/2 cents...


How much of home NG use is dependent on AC being available too? ( Like operating your heating, )
Murphy is an optimist
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:32 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Do you think that Rafael thought to himself "Gee, if I hadn't made that anti-Biden speech on January 6th, maybe I could call him up and lobby for some help?" Nah...

I'm honestly shocked--SHOCKED--that 1) he said he was sorry for his CUN trip and 2) he was contrite about crapping on California for their power outages and wild fires. Maybe he is a real boy after all.


He will be perfectly fine. There was a NC Governor visiting his mistress in South America during a crisis. At least Rafael took his family on vacation.

Romney himself survived folders of women and dog on the car and now preaching morals to others.

Moral of the story, party unity matters, GOP has a lot of it.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:11 pm

Fine as a senator maybe (until Texas goes blue) but he wanted to be president...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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seb146
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:29 pm

Aesma wrote:
Fine as a senator maybe (until Texas goes blue) but he wanted to be president...


And he did what any post-MAGA Republican president would do: go on vacation when crisis hits.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:31 pm

WIederling wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Is there a way to winterize Natural gas wellheads to prevent them from freezing up in extreme cold?


get some help from the Russians.


The governor of Texas is using the cold snap to further the lie that renewable energy does not work in cold weather. Never mind that he is in the pocket of the oil industry. Canada has renewable energy and it is cold there for a lot longer.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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casinterest
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:58 pm

Well looks like the feds are stepping in with assistance. Meanwhile, Abbott and crew are going to start addressing the issues with the power bills.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 523099001/

thank President Biden for his assistance as we respond to impacts of winter weather across our state. While this partial approval is an important first step, Texas will continue to work with our federal partners to ensure all eligible Texans have access to the relief they need," Abbott said in the release. "The funds provided under the Major Disaster Declaration may provide crucial assistance to Texans as they begin to repair their homes and address property damage."



https://www.newsweek.com/unacceptable-t ... rm-1570815

"We have a responsibility to protect Texans from spikes in their energy bills that are a result of the severe winter weather and power outages," said Abbott in a statement on Saturday.

"We are moving quickly to alleviate this problem and will continue to work collaboratively throughout this week on solutions to help Texas families and ensure they do not get stuck with skyrocketing energy bills," Abbott continued.



Looks like the lack of regulations of the Texas Power Grid is going to be expensive for the nation, and the people of Texas.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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seb146
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:53 am

casinterest wrote:
Well looks like the feds are stepping in with assistance. Meanwhile, Abbott and crew are going to start addressing the issues with the power bills.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 523099001/

thank President Biden for his assistance as we respond to impacts of winter weather across our state. While this partial approval is an important first step, Texas will continue to work with our federal partners to ensure all eligible Texans have access to the relief they need," Abbott said in the release. "The funds provided under the Major Disaster Declaration may provide crucial assistance to Texans as they begin to repair their homes and address property damage."



https://www.newsweek.com/unacceptable-t ... rm-1570815

"We have a responsibility to protect Texans from spikes in their energy bills that are a result of the severe winter weather and power outages," said Abbott in a statement on Saturday.

"We are moving quickly to alleviate this problem and will continue to work collaboratively throughout this week on solutions to help Texas families and ensure they do not get stuck with skyrocketing energy bills," Abbott continued.



Looks like the lack of regulations of the Texas Power Grid is going to be expensive for the nation, and the people of Texas.


Republicans love socialism when they face huge losses but hate socialism when they can make huge profits.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
tommy1808
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:06 am

seb146 wrote:
WIederling wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Is there a way to winterize Natural gas wellheads to prevent them from freezing up in extreme cold?


get some help from the Russians.


The governor of Texas is using the cold snap to further the lie that renewable energy does not work in cold weather. Never mind that he is in the pocket of the oil industry. Canada has renewable energy and it is cold there for a lot longer.


and glossing over the fact that the 47% of electricity out of Natural Gas are causing the problem...

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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seb146
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:56 am

tommy1808 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
WIederling wrote:

get some help from the Russians.


The governor of Texas is using the cold snap to further the lie that renewable energy does not work in cold weather. Never mind that he is in the pocket of the oil industry. Canada has renewable energy and it is cold there for a lot longer.


and glossing over the fact that the 47% of electricity out of Natural Gas are causing the problem...

best regards
Thomas


We live in Oregon. We have literally ZERO!!! natural gas to pay. Our energy bills are going up and up and up. We pay more during winter. Yes, we accept that. But, this winter, our energy bill is more than past winters. And we are paying more for getting gas in our cars in addition to our higher than normal energy bills. But, yeah, the "green new deal" is more expensive. We have veterans and seniors who will have to cut back. Socialize the losses and privatize the profits.

I guess socialism ain't so bad.....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
WIederling
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:38 am

seb146 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

The governor of Texas is using the cold snap to further the lie that renewable energy does not work in cold weather. Never mind that he is in the pocket of the oil industry. Canada has renewable energy and it is cold there for a lot longer.


and glossing over the fact that the 47% of electricity out of Natural Gas are causing the problem...

best regards
Thomas


We live in Oregon. We have literally ZERO!!! natural gas to pay. Our energy bills are going up and up and up. We pay more during winter. Yes, we accept that. But, this winter, our energy bill is more than past winters. And we are paying more for getting gas in our cars in addition to our higher than normal energy bills. But, yeah, the "green new deal" is more expensive. We have veterans and seniors who will have to cut back. Socialize the losses and privatize the profits.

I guess socialism ain't so bad.....


push the wool up!
Analyse/Interprete corporate speak!

You don't get billed for more green but for more profits.
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:07 pm

casinterest wrote:
Well looks like the feds are stepping in with assistance. Meanwhile, Abbott and crew are going to start addressing the issues with the power bills.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 523099001/

thank President Biden for his assistance as we respond to impacts of winter weather across our state. While this partial approval is an important first step, Texas will continue to work with our federal partners to ensure all eligible Texans have access to the relief they need," Abbott said in the release. "The funds provided under the Major Disaster Declaration may provide crucial assistance to Texans as they begin to repair their homes and address property damage."



https://www.newsweek.com/unacceptable-t ... rm-1570815

"We have a responsibility to protect Texans from spikes in their energy bills that are a result of the severe winter weather and power outages," said Abbott in a statement on Saturday.

"We are moving quickly to alleviate this problem and will continue to work collaboratively throughout this week on solutions to help Texas families and ensure they do not get stuck with skyrocketing energy bills," Abbott continued.



Looks like the lack of regulations of the Texas Power Grid is going to be expensive for the nation, and the people of Texas.


I suspect that homeowners will submit their bill to the State, which will negotiate with the suppliers. Who may in turn need to submit their bills to the State to negotiate. Enron and George's buddy managed to screw a lot of industry in the Pacific Northwest.
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slider
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:58 pm

Bottom line is that Texas has added millions to its population in the past generation and added no incremental energy generation.

The older NG and coal plants were in fact replaced by wind and solar, but nothing additional. When you have those sectors go down, you're screwed. The solution moving forward should include the abolition of ERCOT, a long term investment in energy that includes nuclear and some traditional sources for reliability, and all capital investment should be hardened and winterized, including instrumentation. It'll cost more, but the butcher's bill has come due. Literally.
 
LMP737
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:01 am

Now Larry Kudlow has chimed in with the remark “He’s gone after the energy sector. You saw some of the consequences in Texas. That’s just the tip of the iceberg.”. He was referring to Biden. Giant face palm.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 05398.html
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MaverickM11
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:12 am

LMP737 wrote:
Now Larry Kudlow has chimed in with the remark “He’s gone after the energy sector. You saw some of the consequences in Texas. That’s just the tip of the iceberg.”. He was referring to Biden. Giant face palm.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 05398.html

Cocaine is bad, kids.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
vrbarreto
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:39 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Water damage is happening in untold numbers of Texas homes, as predicted. So sorry for these people...

https://youtu.be/_K3ZpiJZJXM


Yeah the 8-bit guy was one of the unfortunate victims:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc4_PnKoea4&t=449s
 
Tiredofhumanity
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:47 am

seb146 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

The governor of Texas is using the cold snap to further the lie that renewable energy does not work in cold weather. Never mind that he is in the pocket of the oil industry. Canada has renewable energy and it is cold there for a lot longer.


and glossing over the fact that the 47% of electricity out of Natural Gas are causing the problem...

best regards
Thomas


We live in Oregon. We have literally ZERO!!! natural gas to pay. Our energy bills are going up and up and up. We pay more during winter. Yes, we accept that. But, this winter, our energy bill is more than past winters. And we are paying more for getting gas in our cars in addition to our higher than normal energy bills. But, yeah, the "green new deal" is more expensive. We have veterans and seniors who will have to cut back. Socialize the losses and privatize the profits.

I guess socialism ain't so bad.....


A big part of that is recent Saudi oil market manipulation and their Wall Street enablers feeding the rally in prices - someone needs to be paid to keep teh gays and "uppity" women out of "The Kingdom". Such a win for "American Values" and the "Free Market" :roll: .

That brings me to this thought - could the argument be made that Texas' less-than-robust and isolated energy grid is a threat to the energy security of the US? Wasn't the SPR implemented in the 70's to help cushion the impacts of the sudden loss of petroleum supply? I would think this falls into that category.

I don't see a sudden spike to $90 barrel oil being good for the overall economic recovery - it doesn't help that everyone with a job went out and bought massive automatic pickup trucks and SUV's that get 19 mpg last year.
 
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seb146
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:05 am

Tiredofhumanity wrote:
seb146 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

and glossing over the fact that the 47% of electricity out of Natural Gas are causing the problem...

best regards
Thomas


We live in Oregon. We have literally ZERO!!! natural gas to pay. Our energy bills are going up and up and up. We pay more during winter. Yes, we accept that. But, this winter, our energy bill is more than past winters. And we are paying more for getting gas in our cars in addition to our higher than normal energy bills. But, yeah, the "green new deal" is more expensive. We have veterans and seniors who will have to cut back. Socialize the losses and privatize the profits.

I guess socialism ain't so bad.....


A big part of that is recent Saudi oil market manipulation and their Wall Street enablers feeding the rally in prices - someone needs to be paid to keep teh gays and "uppity" women out of "The Kingdom". Such a win for "American Values" and the "Free Market" :roll: .

That brings me to this thought - could the argument be made that Texas' less-than-robust and isolated energy grid is a threat to the energy security of the US? Wasn't the SPR implemented in the 70's to help cushion the impacts of the sudden loss of petroleum supply? I would think this falls into that category.

I don't see a sudden spike to $90 barrel oil being good for the overall economic recovery - it doesn't help that everyone with a job went out and bought massive automatic pickup trucks and SUV's that get 19 mpg last year.


Pacific Northwest has one refinery. California has three or four. Those people buying "massive automatic pickup trucks and SUVs" in the midst of a pandemic were in the South and evangelicals because they believe everything their MAGA leader tells them.

The brosband and I just went to SAN and LAX and SFO to visit family and scout out places to live. Yes, we saw Bentlys and Ferraris and Maseratis but, more often than not, we saw hybrids and pure electric cars. Leafs and Teslas and Bolts and such. Because gas is finite. Gas is not replaceable like wind and solar. Science says so. Facts say so.

Reagan had the solar panels removed from the White House in 1981 after Carter wanted renewable energy. Republicans have been siding with fossil fuel ever since. Because profit over people.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
CometII
Posts: 364
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 6:02 am

Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:11 am

So the Texas philosophy is total deregulation as long as it means the "gov" is bloody hands off (and I as a generally laissez-faire guy does not agree with this pedantic punctilousness to capitalist dogma). What is in the water there. Oops, many people got none of that either.

I'm turning more anti-Christian by the day I must admit. I so sick and tired of hearing these hypocrites wagging morality and compassion (the lack or it), against all those who oppose them even in the slightest way on their pet issues (abortion, victims rights, 2nd amendment, blah blah), but here you have them all over talking how about it is "sink or swim, the weak shall perish" (well, they seem to believe in evolution just fine when it suits them), and then (the energy providers), having the audacity to say "don't blame us we didn't see this coming, we can't control the weather", then immediately turning right around and sending 10 thousand dollar utility bills to their "valued customers". So the customers can control the weather, they are literally saying. Because otherwise how on Earth can you justify charging them in that fashion, when the weather clearly was not their fault either and NEITHER was the poor preparation of the infraestructure they were paying to use?

I don't need to add all the thousands of pieces of evidence from the Trump years. But really, the only Christian thing left in many of the so-called Christians in the USA is the year number used on their birth certificate.
 
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CitizenJustin
Posts: 851
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:48 pm

FGITD wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Texans may still love Rafael but he just kissed his dream of living in the White House goodbye, unless a president lets him spend the night on a sleepover.
I'm on another, very conservative outdoors forum. So many of his defenders were saying "it's okay, there's nothing he could have done". I responded "it's like when a close friend or relative is very sick or dying, there's nothing you can do but you're still there to support them". All I heard was crickets...


It’s a baseless argument. There’s always something to do during a disaster. Especially when you’re in a position where just driving around and talking to people will help.

Meanwhile AOC is down there volunteering and fundraising. Go figure, it almost seems like she wants to help Americans regardless of political affiliation or if they even live in her district. Damn libs and their socialism



Exactly. She’s raised over 3.5 million. This is real, meaningful help. Not the typical lazy prayers(which never work) offered by the right and the only the strong survive, pull yourself up by your bootstraps mentality. This was an unprecedented weather event and the south is not built, nor do they have the resources to combat Arctic temperatures, just like the north is not equipped for the 110F+ temps seen in Texas. When I lived in Texas, the slightest bit of winter precipitation led to absolute chaos. This is nothing new and Republicans are politicizing this as usual instead of offering real help, which AOC, the evil socialist is doing. Imagine that, a radical leftist who’s able to put politics aside and help a red state. The right seems downright joyful when disasters occur in blue states. If I had a dollar for every time I heard a Trumpist praising the California wildfires and wishing the entire state would burn down, I’d be rich.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4883
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:12 pm

Appropriate winterizing of existing gas, coal, and nuclear will be sufficient. And not all that expensive. Scheduled rolling shutdowns are an adequate tool in the face of extreme weather, and would not precipitate a disaster. Variable pricing is another good tool, but there needs to be appropriate limits. Say doubling of the cost of electricity, maybe even tripling.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
luckyone
Posts: 3962
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:50 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
FGITD wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Texans may still love Rafael but he just kissed his dream of living in the White House goodbye, unless a president lets him spend the night on a sleepover.
I'm on another, very conservative outdoors forum. So many of his defenders were saying "it's okay, there's nothing he could have done". I responded "it's like when a close friend or relative is very sick or dying, there's nothing you can do but you're still there to support them". All I heard was crickets...


It’s a baseless argument. There’s always something to do during a disaster. Especially when you’re in a position where just driving around and talking to people will help.

Meanwhile AOC is down there volunteering and fundraising. Go figure, it almost seems like she wants to help Americans regardless of political affiliation or if they even live in her district. Damn libs and their socialism



Exactly. She’s raised over 3.5 million. This is real, meaningful help. Not the typical lazy prayers(which never work) offered by the right and the only the strong survive, pull yourself up by your bootstraps mentality. This was an unprecedented weather event and the south is not built, nor do they have the resources to combat Arctic temperatures, just like the north is not equipped for the 110F+ temps seen in Texas. When I lived in Texas, the slightest bit of winter precipitation led to absolute chaos. This is nothing new and Republicans are politicizing this as usual instead of offering real help, which AOC, the evil socialist is doing. Imagine that, a radical leftist who’s able to put politics aside and help a red state. The right seems downright joyful when disasters occur in blue states. If I had a dollar for every time I heard a Trumpist praising the California wildfires and wishing the entire state would burn down, I’d be rich.

Just to clarify, states up north regularly see triple digits, particularly the Midwest which can see temperature swings of 100+ F in a span of six months. Do they last as long as they would in Texas or Arizona, etc? No. But it happens and does not cripple the state the way a rare storm does like this in Texas.
 
FGITD
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:49 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:


Exactly. She’s raised over 3.5 million. This is real, meaningful help. Not the typical lazy prayers(which never work) offered by the right and the only the strong survive, pull yourself up by your bootstraps mentality.


It's a perfect Republican nightmare. Assuming she ever wanted to make a run, she's basically making her own presidential campaign ads literally in their backyards while making them look stupid.

Either way however, I fully expect that by next year when some other state gets hit by a disaster, Texas politicians will object to assistance and claim they need to get their own state in order, just like Texas did.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18710
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:49 pm

FGITD wrote:
Either way however, I fully expect that by next year when some other state gets hit by a disaster, Texas politicians will object to assistance and claim they need to get their own state in order, just like Texas did.

:checkmark: :checkmark: Yup. Can you fathom a republican actually helping anyone, anywhere, that doesn't directly benefit them? Even anyone that *does* benefit them? Besides Kyle Rittenhouse? It's totally anathema to the movement.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
apodino
Posts: 4076
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:18 pm

Kudos to AOC for her work on this. I don't know what her motives truly were, but this was an incredibly selfless thing to do, and not only did Ted Cruz go to Cancun, but AG Ken Paxton fled to Utah with his wife Angela, who herself is a State Senator.

I know AOC takes flak for being extreme. But are her policies extreme? Is it extreme that everyone who works should have the right to a living wage? Is it extreme to ensure that every child regardless of family circumstance has the right to a good education? Is it extreme that we should ensure that every American has access to health care like every other civilized nation? Is it extreme to want to take care of the planet?

I don't agree with AOC or the dems on the Abortion issue or the Judge issue. But as far as my legislative politics go (If that makes sense), I have shifted somewhat left in the past year or so.
 
Kent350787
Posts: 1905
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:23 am

Its a real pity that TX has neither the sunshine, buildings or land to increase rooftop solar (/s) with large array battery surge protection, like South Australia.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-big-b ... its-77644/

Rooftop solar in heavily fossil fuel reliant Australia already generates more electricity than other sources during the day, but the chase is on to strengthen the grid to manage the capacity swings.

At least Australia never has freezing storms like the US, but the impetus for the Tesla battery in SA was a tornado suddenly taking a coal fired power station offline.
S340/J31/146-300/F27/F50/Nord 262/ Q100/200/E195/ 733/734/738/744/762/763/77W/788/789/ 320/321/332/333/345/359
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:48 am

Don't have too much to add, but some years ago I had a 7 day power outage at my house in DC. It was late summer/early fall and a tropical storm/depression hit that came up from the Gulf...still had enough energy to wreck overhead lines. I've since invested in a Generac 48kw/200amp fixed generator that runs on NG or LP. It can power the whole house, but not everyone can afford that. I think including installation, running a gas line under my backyard, a concrete base and masonry around the unit so people don't see it etc. it was over $25k. People can get smaller wheeled generators, but most of those don't produce enough power to power a furnace or central air and other stuff.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18710
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:31 pm

On the bright side Texans saved loads of money with their deregulation. JUST KIDDING.

Texas Electric Bills Were $28 Billion Higher Under Deregulation

https://www.wsj.com/articles/texas-elec ... 80?mod=mhp
I don't take responsibility at all
 
GDB
Posts: 14254
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:59 pm

apodino wrote:
Kudos to AOC for her work on this. I don't know what her motives truly were, but this was an incredibly selfless thing to do, and not only did Ted Cruz go to Cancun, but AG Ken Paxton fled to Utah with his wife Angela, who herself is a State Senator.

I know AOC takes flak for being extreme. But are her policies extreme? Is it extreme that everyone who works should have the right to a living wage? Is it extreme to ensure that every child regardless of family circumstance has the right to a good education? Is it extreme that we should ensure that every American has access to health care like every other civilized nation? Is it extreme to want to take care of the planet?

I don't agree with AOC or the dems on the Abortion issue or the Judge issue. But as far as my legislative politics go (If that makes sense), I have shifted somewhat left in the past year or so.


Only in the 'exceptional' US of the GOP and some Dems, normal in other Western democracies, other 'exceptional' examples being mass incarceration, much higher murder rates and as a caveat to being a democracy, well we have seen what literally tens of millions of GOP voters think of that idea, when they cannot Gerrymander a 'victory'.
 
luckyone
Posts: 3962
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:07 pm

https://www.wsj.com/articles/texas-elec ... 80?mod=mhp

Well ain’t that a kick in the head. According to this WSJ report, Texans have paid more in a deregulated energy market over the past twenty years than they would have under the previous regimen.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18710
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:51 am

luckyone wrote:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/texas-electric-bills-were-28-billion-higher-under-deregulation-11614162780?mod=mhp

Well ain’t that a kick in the head. According to this WSJ report, Texans have paid more in a deregulated energy market over the past twenty years than they would have under the previous regimen.

This has to be the least surprising outcome ever. Reminds me of all the new fandangled finance instruments created in the 80s and 90s that were promised to 'increase liquidity' and 'raise home ownership' ...until it all went kablooey.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23731
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Texas governor blames Green new deal for power outage

Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:42 am

"Deregulation" like "trickle down" is meant to strengthen and enrich the few at the top and not help anyone at the bottom. The opposite of what we are told.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!

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