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seb146
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:03 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:

Let me ask you something. Do you think we should take in any and all people around the world who want to come to the US? How many BILLION do you think that would be? How do you possibly think we could sustain uncontrolled asylum seekers to which 90% do not have a valid asylum claim. We are way overdue for immigration reforms for sure and I am for keeping the DACA kids that are already here. But now is totally not the time to be opening the flood gates at our southern border. We are in the midst of a pandemic and trying to get it under control what Biden is doing is the true definition of insanity and you liberals who support is a head scratcher for sure.

What white rage fantasy is this? Is this before or after the frothing mania over a plastic potato? I can’t keep up with all the imaginary boogeymen


IF Texas is being so irresponsible, why is the US CBP releasing COVID-positive immigrants loose in Texas? The increase in COVID in Texas is on Biden, not Abbott.


Because CBP does not have a test for immigrants? Because Texas has the longest border with Mexico? Why do you have to wear a mask? I dunno.... to protect other people who are not vaccinated because "do unto others" Bible stuff? Maybe, but just a theory for the bible thumpers.....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:19 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:

Let me ask you something. Do you think we should take in any and all people around the world who want to come to the US? How many BILLION do you think that would be? How do you possibly think we could sustain uncontrolled asylum seekers to which 90% do not have a valid asylum claim. We are way overdue for immigration reforms for sure and I am for keeping the DACA kids that are already here. But now is totally not the time to be opening the flood gates at our southern border. We are in the midst of a pandemic and trying to get it under control what Biden is doing is the true definition of insanity and you liberals who support is a head scratcher for sure.

What white rage fantasy is this? Is this before or after the frothing mania over a plastic potato? I can’t keep up with all the imaginary boogeymen


IF Texas is being so irresponsible, why is the US CBP releasing COVID-positive immigrants loose in Texas? The increase in COVID in Texas is on Biden, not Abbott.

https://www.valleycentral.com/news/loca ... uarantine/

BTW, now I have my vaccinations, why am I still required to wear a mask?

TX is recording 7600 new cases per day, and Texas is blaming it on 100 covid positive immigrants? How in your mind does that make any sense other than to transparently blame the helpless brown folk as per usual? If it's ok to open everything and end the mask mandate, why would 100 immigrants throw that in jeopardy? GEE WHAT COULD IT BE. Show your work.

Nuclear dishonesty and racism. That's all republicans ever offer.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:09 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
What white rage fantasy is this? Is this before or after the frothing mania over a plastic potato? I can’t keep up with all the imaginary boogeymen


IF Texas is being so irresponsible, why is the US CBP releasing COVID-positive immigrants loose in Texas? The increase in COVID in Texas is on Biden, not Abbott.

https://www.valleycentral.com/news/loca ... uarantine/

BTW, now I have my vaccinations, why am I still required to wear a mask?

TX is recording 7600 new cases per day, and Texas is blaming it on 100 covid positive immigrants? How in your mind does that make any sense other than to transparently blame the helpless brown folk as per usual? If it's ok to open everything and end the mask mandate, why would 100 immigrants throw that in jeopardy? GEE WHAT COULD IT BE. Show your work.

Nuclear dishonesty and racism. That's all republicans ever offer.


Texas Gov. Abbott stalled federal offer to test migrants then blamed them for spreading Covid
https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/politics ... index.html

It's hard to overstate how many different ways Abbott has screwed the pooch here, all to blame immigrants. Really some world record racism here. It's almost impressive, even after five years of this incandescent bigotry from the right.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:29 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

IF Texas is being so irresponsible, why is the US CBP releasing COVID-positive immigrants loose in Texas? The increase in COVID in Texas is on Biden, not Abbott.

https://www.valleycentral.com/news/loca ... uarantine/

BTW, now I have my vaccinations, why am I still required to wear a mask?

TX is recording 7600 new cases per day, and Texas is blaming it on 100 covid positive immigrants? How in your mind does that make any sense other than to transparently blame the helpless brown folk as per usual? If it's ok to open everything and end the mask mandate, why would 100 immigrants throw that in jeopardy? GEE WHAT COULD IT BE. Show your work.

Nuclear dishonesty and racism. That's all republicans ever offer.


Texas Gov. Abbott stalled federal offer to test migrants then blamed them for spreading Covid
https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/politics ... index.html

It's hard to overstate how many different ways Abbott has screwed the pooch here, all to blame immigrants. Really some world record racism here. It's almost impressive, even after five years of this incandescent bigotry from the right.


Not to mention the asylum seekers who are being processed are getting COVID tested by DHS. Then Abbott goes and rejects the program assistance for released migrants. FFS...

https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-a ... -us-2021-2
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Tugger
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:06 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
IF Texas is being so irresponsible, why is the US CBP releasing COVID-positive immigrants loose in Texas? The increase in COVID in Texas is on Biden, not Abbott.

https://www.valleycentral.com/news/loca ... uarantine/
Wait, you are justifying Abbot being irresponsible with another action you find irresponsible? You did learn the rule of "two wrongs don't make a right", yes?

I get that just relieving the mask mandate doesn't make everything fail. Abbott specifically said he expects Texans to still behave responsibly. But in this climate, the real risk is the Trumpeteers deciding that means NO MASKS, period. Their ideal is to prove they are free no matter the consequences or concerns of others. If a store requires masks I am confident such people will force the issue and not wear masks. This is just my opinion but we have seen such things in the past. I am not "for" excess government intrusion and I am for easing restrictions as the situation improves.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
BTW, now I have my vaccinations, why am I still required to wear a mask?

Because you can still infect others, because you support having others wear their masks until herd immunity is reached, because you want others that don't know you are vaccinated, others that may be at real risk if they get COVID, that they are safe with you. I dunno, that might be why you would still wear one.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
JJJ
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:08 am

Tugger wrote:
Because you can still infect others, because you support having others wear their masks until herd immunity is reached, because you want others that don't know you are vaccinated, others that may be at real risk if they get COVID, that they are safe with you. I dunno, that might be why you would still wear one.

Tugg


Precisely. My wife was vaccinated yesterday (in her 40s, but she's the registered caretaker of our son with a disability) and the nurse made a point of insisting that you are still required to abide by mask rules, esp. around the vulnerable, because you can still transmit the virus.

It's incredibly selfish to think otherwise.
 
johns624
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:32 pm

My wife is an auditor for an international accreditation group. That organization has been doing vitual audits for the last 11 months. She was prepping a Texas organization for their audit yesterday and one of the employees asked if they could have an on-site audit since Texas was opening up. My wife had to kindly inform her that the organization didn't care what Texas did and none of the auditors wanted to come to Texas, anyways. Why do Texans and New Yorkers think that the rest of the world cares about them or that they're "special"? I see it all the time when traveling. You know who the people are from those two states because they make a point of letting everyone know, in a very loud voice. We were on a group hiking tour of Ireland many years ago and there were these two really nice sisters from AUS. They kept telling us that we should come down to visit because "we have some really nice lakes". Seeing as how we're from DTW, and they knew it. I replied "we have some really nice ones of our own" (Great Lakes). It went over their heads.
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lift

Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:19 pm

N757ST wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
N757ST wrote:

My personal feelings are at this point states should keep mask mandates until June 1 if Biden’s commitment to provide every American a vaccine by then is accurate. Almost every state should be, at the very least, in the process of staged reopening so that we can fully reopen mid June. At that point there should be zero restrictions on anything, including domestic travel. International travel I can understand will be restricted to those that have a vaccine and/or a PCR test. If everyone has access then we should not be coddling those that don’t want the vaccine and are unwilling to take it. June 1 should be your final decision date... get the vaccine, risk getting the virus, or shelter in perpetuity. I fear some of our governors will continue travel restrictions, plexiglass barriers at the bar, and mask mandates well into the fall of ‘21 and perhaps 2022. Sorry, I’m not interested in a new normal. If you want to wear a mask so be it, and culturally I think if you’re sick it’d be nice if it’s now acceptable and expected that you mask up in public, but I have little interest beyond that in participating in a new normal. Perhaps Texas was a bit quick to jump the gun, but when every American has access to a vaccine by May, I expect and demand that every other state follows suit. Yes, Americans generally demand personal liberty, so these infringements of that were very difficult to stomach over the last 12 months. I’d personally like to be done with them, but I also had the privilege of receiving my vaccine early due to my profession. I think everyone should have the same opportunity I had to get the inoculation, but at that point I expect you to stop hindering our return to normal even if you’re not comfortable.... stay home at that point.


Agreed for the most part...people should definitely learn from this and mask up when they have a cold/flu etc. going forward. It works very well in Asia and would be appreciated by many who have to work/school with people who never call in sick for various reasons.

Though I would say the 'infringements' were not that hard to handle. Maybe it helps being in a sunny place where one can drive to a lot of nature, but people have been griping too much. Nobody was listening apparently to the 'greatest generation' when they told of going several years without butter, various dry goods, and household metals.



Oh please. Stop. Yes, there were certainly infringements. What if you owned a restaurant? What if you were an essential worker and you relied on a schooling for your kid? What about the owner of a concert venue? A stadium? What if you wanted to travel to your relative a state away with a travel restriction? (Pshh... I’m in the northeast., would you feel the same “there’s no restrictions” if you couldn’t travel out of LA county?) My cousin got a $1000 dollar ticket for traveling to Maine without a PCR, from Connecticut 2 hours away... Since when should the government force your bar to close, force your restaurant to eliminate all indoor dining, jail you for holding a social gathering? I understand why it was done, but just because you can still visit nature doesn’t take away from the fact that these were government restrictions that should not exist. Again, I get why they happened and I went along with it, but as soon we have a solution available to everyone, the vaccine, we should be absolutely done with all this crap and should be back to normal. Then, just wait for the legal challenges that will and should be brought up. Emergency powers for over a year for Governors, ruling outside of a legislature... that’s NOT how we are supposed to be governed. I’m all about protecting others with common sense law, but there’s a point when we give up too much liberty and give too much power to the government. If this is temporary then alright, it happened and let’s move on, but I have little intention of coddling a scared population in perpetuity. The solution exists, it’s being distributed, and once it has been distributed then be done with it all, even if there is still some risk. We cannot eliminate all risk from life, and that was NEVER the point.



When the next pandemic inevitably strikes, will you still be whining about “infringements” restricting people from doing ultimately meaningless and unimportant things if the mortality rate is 10, 20, 30 or God forbid 40%? What exactly do you need to do that can’t wait and risks your life and the lives of the most vulnerable? You’re worried about the here and now when a lack of limitations will ultimately lead to more loss and worse economic strife in the future. Because of this irresponsibility, more die and how many serious variants will it take to knock people into reality? Houston reported all five variants and so now what? Also, the lawsuits you support will make it exponentially harder to protect people next time.

This past year has taught me that the American people are spoiled and no longer possess the required stoicism to withstand adversity and lack the fortitude to confront a deadly pathogen head on. The steps taken to slow the pandemic aren’t anything new. From the horrific epidemics of ancient Rome to the black death in the 14th century, tough restrictions and inconveniences to every day life proved necessary to halt the spread.

Other nations are handling this much better and it’s because their people haven’t lost their grip on reality and gone completely insane. They seem to actually understand that sacrifices must be made during times of hardship. Add climate change into the mix and these disasters will only become more frequent. The recent disaster in Texas only bolsters my argument that we can’t approach things sensibly and that chaos and science denial has replaced commons sense.

In my opinion, your views are part of the problem.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:45 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
TX is recording 7600 new cases per day, and Texas is blaming it on 100 covid positive immigrants? How in your mind does that make any sense other than to transparently blame the helpless brown folk as per usual? If it's ok to open everything and end the mask mandate, why would 100 immigrants throw that in jeopardy? GEE WHAT COULD IT BE. Show your work.

Nuclear dishonesty and racism. That's all republicans ever offer.


Texas Gov. Abbott stalled federal offer to test migrants then blamed them for spreading Covid
https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/politics ... index.html

It's hard to overstate how many different ways Abbott has screwed the pooch here, all to blame immigrants. Really some world record racism here. It's almost impressive, even after five years of this incandescent bigotry from the right.


Not to mention the asylum seekers who are being processed are getting COVID tested by DHS. Then Abbott goes and rejects the program assistance for released migrants. FFS...

https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-a ... -us-2021-2

Just screams pro life Christian :roll:

johns624 wrote:
My wife is an auditor for an international accreditation group. That organization has been doing vitual audits for the last 11 months. She was prepping a Texas organization for their audit yesterday and one of the employees asked if they could have an on-site audit since Texas was opening up. My wife had to kindly inform her that the organization didn't care what Texas did and none of the auditors wanted to come to Texas, anyways. Why do Texans and New Yorkers think that the rest of the world cares about them or that they're "special"? I see it all the time when traveling. You know who the people are from those two states because they make a point of letting everyone know, in a very loud voice. We were on a group hiking tour of Ireland many years ago and there were these two really nice sisters from AUS. They kept telling us that we should come down to visit because "we have some really nice lakes". Seeing as how we're from DTW, and they knew it. I replied "we have some really nice ones of our own" (Great Lakes). It went over their heads.

Texas is the epitome of big hat--UGE hat--no cattle.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lift

Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:29 pm

Abbot's EO clearly states, millions of Texans voluntarily vaccinated and even otherwise are immune to COVID-19.

So they are good.
All posts are just opinions.
 
johns624
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lift

Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:28 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Abbot's EO clearly states, millions of Texans voluntarily vaccinated and even otherwise are immune to COVID-19.

So they are good.
The problem is the many more millions who haven't been vaccinated yet. According to my figures, only 13.8% of Texans have had at least one of their two shots.
https://www.covidactnow.org/us/texas-tx/?s=1637578
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lift

Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:10 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Abbot's EO clearly states, millions of Texans voluntarily vaccinated and even otherwise are immune to COVID-19.

So they are good.

Huh? By what measure? "Herd immunity" is 70+% and we're barely 1/10th of that and still notching 7-8000 new cases per day. At the same time Abbott and conservatives are blaming iLLeeGulZ for bringing in COVID while simultaneously lifting the the mask mandate and capacity limits. So what is it? Safe enough to open up in spite of the 7000 daily Texan cases but still super dangerous because of a handful of brown people crossing the border? Surprised he didn't blame illegals for not winterizing the natural gas lines either :roll:
I don't take responsibility at all
 
PHLspecial
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:50 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
BTW, now I have my vaccinations, why am I still required to wear a mask?

Just because you are vaccinated doesn't mean you can't be carrier for the virus still. There is not enough studies to conclude that is true or not. So why not be on the safe side.

I mean you wear seat belts when on are in a car to be safe or does the government have too much control on that as well?
 
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Tugger
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:24 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
I mean you wear seat belts when on are in a car to be safe or does the government have too much control on that as well?

Well seatbelt's are for the person OWN safety! That is OK and fine to do. "I want to protect myself" is what people think. Mask wearing is to protect OTHERS, and we don't care about others. The fact that the government is imposing on me and trying to FORCE me to care about, to protect others is not acceptable! At least that is what some out there are thinking obviously.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
meecrob
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:37 pm

Tugger wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
I mean you wear seat belts when on are in a car to be safe or does the government have too much control on that as well?

Well seatbelt's are for the person OWN safety! That is OK and fine to do. "I want to protect myself" is what people think. Mask wearing is to protect OTHERS, and we don't care about others. The fact that the government is imposing on me and trying to FORCE me to care about, to protect others is not acceptable! At least that is what some out there are thinking obviously.

Tugg


Seriously! My mask slightly chafes behind my ears so I'm not wearing it, everyone else can fuck right off!
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:45 pm

meecrob wrote:
Tugger wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
I mean you wear seat belts when on are in a car to be safe or does the government have too much control on that as well?

Well seatbelt's are for the person OWN safety! That is OK and fine to do. "I want to protect myself" is what people think. Mask wearing is to protect OTHERS, and we don't care about others. The fact that the government is imposing on me and trying to FORCE me to care about, to protect others is not acceptable! At least that is what some out there are thinking obviously.

Tugg


Seriously! My mask slightly chafes behind my ears so I'm not wearing it, everyone else can fuck right off!


There are ear savers (or) headband style masks.
All posts are just opinions.
 
johns624
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Fri Mar 05, 2021 9:13 pm

Tugger wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
I mean you wear seat belts when on are in a car to be safe or does the government have too much control on that as well?

Well seatbelt's are for the person OWN safety! That is OK and fine to do. "I want to protect myself" is what people think. Mask wearing is to protect OTHERS, and we don't care about others. The fact that the government is imposing on me and trying to FORCE me to care about, to protect others is not acceptable! At least that is what some out there are thinking obviously.

Tugg
Yet, they wear shoes and shirts when going into a building and think nothing of it. That has much less of an effect on theirs or others health. Their reasoning is just mindboggling.
 
meecrob
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Fri Mar 05, 2021 9:47 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
meecrob wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Well seatbelt's are for the person OWN safety! That is OK and fine to do. "I want to protect myself" is what people think. Mask wearing is to protect OTHERS, and we don't care about others. The fact that the government is imposing on me and trying to FORCE me to care about, to protect others is not acceptable! At least that is what some out there are thinking obviously.

Tugg


Seriously! My mask slightly chafes behind my ears so I'm not wearing it, everyone else can fuck right off!


There are ear savers (or) headband style masks.


Sorry, I should have included "/s"

I probably never will get why people will not wear masks. At the beginning of it, I did not wear one. I social distanced, I washed my hands, I didn't touch my face, I stayed 6 feet from people...then I clued into the fact that you look like a total fucking douche if you don't wear one. That was about April..end of April last year. Not wearing a mask is not being a rebel, its being a child too old for diapers who still shits their pants. All you guys railing against Covid precautions, realize we would be back to normal if we took this seriously. All your arguments "we have to let businesses open, people are going bankrupt!!!" we would have been out the other side by now if we actually locked down properly. All you people who think liberty is the greatest thing, no, liberty is the greatest thing in a safe environment. That's why we don't let our kids free until we know its safe. I know its hard to think objectively when the pundits are pumping us full of narratives and agendas, but if we all step back and use even fucking a 10 year old's logic, you'd understand that not breathing at someone will help stop the spread of an airborne virus. Like fuck. I can't believe I even had to type that, but reading half of these replies, it feels like this site is some social experiment where they have only like 5 actual users and thousands of trolls just to rile us up.
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Fri Mar 05, 2021 9:47 pm

I've been thinking about this, and I've brought up in the now-closed election thread that Texas will do things that will encourage conservatives to move there, to counter the California transplants. While I still disagree with Governor Abbott's decision on this, I wonder if this move will increase the conservative population to preserve Texas's red status.
 
alfa164
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:30 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
I've been thinking about this, and I've brought up in the now-closed election thread that Texas will do things that will encourage conservatives to move there, to counter the California transplants. While I still disagree with Governor Abbott's decision on this, I wonder if this move will increase the conservative population to preserve Texas's red status.


Do you really think thousands of families across the country will pack up all their belongings, abandon their homes, move their kids from their school, leave their jobs behind, and head to Texas.... because they might have to wear a mask in their home state for a few more months?

There must be more rubes in the country than I imagined...

:roll:
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I have decided to be cremated....
 
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c933103
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:35 pm

Tugger wrote:

Mask wearing is to protect OTHERS,

Hence wear surgical mask to protect oneself
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate. 求同存異. よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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johns624
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:38 pm

alfa164 wrote:
phatfarmlines wrote:
I've been thinking about this, and I've brought up in the now-closed election thread that Texas will do things that will encourage conservatives to move there, to counter the California transplants. While I still disagree with Governor Abbott's decision on this, I wonder if this move will increase the conservative population to preserve Texas's red status.


Do you really think thousands of families across the country will pack up all their belongings, abandon their homes, move their kids from their school, leave their jobs behind, and head to Texas.... because they might have to wear a mask in their home state for a few more months?

There must be more rubes in the country than I imagined...

:roll:
Nah, never happen. Just like there were relatively few protestors in DC on Jan 6. People talk big but action is another thing.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:23 pm

Tugger wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
I mean you wear seat belts when on are in a car to be safe or does the government have too much control on that as well?

Well seatbelt's are for the person OWN safety! That is OK and fine to do. "I want to protect myself" is what people think. Mask wearing is to protect OTHERS, and we don't care about others. The fact that the government is imposing on me and trying to FORCE me to care about, to protect others is not acceptable! At least that is what some out there are thinking obviously.

Tugg


It’s a sickness - I can’t find another explanation for it.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:01 am

meecrob wrote:
...
I probably never will get why people will not wear masks.


Root cause is the mixed messaging from experts, politicians and news media.

Other countries never doubted the benefits of mask, never flip-flopped about messaging, never worried about mask usage competition between public and HCWs.
Not that they all are wearing masks strictly, but here we have added layers of confusion.

Pre-COVID19, a 3M N95 used to be 65c, once entire stockpile gone Feb '20, fake ones were going for $20 each, it is still not corrected, people are paying $10-$20 for fancy but useless cloth masks.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:18 am

c933103 wrote:
Tugger wrote:

Mask wearing is to protect OTHERS,

Hence wear surgical mask to protect oneself

Yes, somewhat but surgical masks are worn to protect the patient not the medical staff.

Tugg
 
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c933103
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:40 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
meecrob wrote:
...
I probably never will get why people will not wear masks.


Root cause is the mixed messaging from experts, politicians and news media.

Other countries never doubted the benefits of mask, never flip-flopped about messaging, never worried about mask usage competition between public and HCWs.
Not that they all are wearing masks strictly, but here we have added layers of confusion.

Pre-COVID19, a 3M N95 used to be 65c, once entire stockpile gone Feb '20, fake ones were going for $20 each, it is still not corrected, people are paying $10-$20 for fancy but useless cloth masks.

The confused messages about mask and doubts around it are widespread across all Western countries according to my personal observation.
According to my understanding, a number of countries took the influenza epidemic guideline to response to the virus, where it usually said leaving mask for medical and not recommended for public even in most severe scenario.

Tugger wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Tugger wrote:

Mask wearing is to protect OTHERS,

Hence wear surgical mask to protect oneself

Yes, somewhat but surgical masks are worn to protect the patient not the medical staff.

Tugg

I don't think the original designation of something designed to be worn by whom is significant when there are such effect being known.
Yes, it won't stop all infection, but just like using seat belt wouldn't stop all death from traffic, would people abandon such measure entirely just because the protection isn't perfect?
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stl07
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:56 am

Francoflier wrote:
Well, I wasn't being sarcastic.
It probably will give us some decent indication on whether the virus spreads differently in Texas with little to no restrictions compared to other states which mandate tougher mask rules, lock downs and business closures.

To be honest, I wouldn't risk a verdict just yet...

Just look at Florida. I think you can guess the point when the governer lifted the mask mandate...

https://www.google.com/search?q=florida ... e&ie=UTF-8
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Tugger
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:36 am

c933103 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Hence wear surgical mask to protect oneself

Yes, somewhat but surgical masks are worn to protect the patient not the medical staff.
Tugg

I don't think the original designation of something designed to be worn by whom is significant when there are such effect being known.
Yes, it won't stop all infection, but just like using seat belt wouldn't stop all death from traffic, would people abandon such measure entirely just because the protection isn't perfect?

Umm... that is a confused statement. This has little to do with "whom it is designed to be worn by" it has everything to do with the FACT that the mask helps protect the patient from what might come from the medical staff's mouth. The masks do not significantly protect the staff from any pathogens, it does but not the much. The true protection is for others.

Tugg
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scbriml
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:03 am

stratosphere wrote:
You would be surprised...The Democrats are for sure loving this crisis. it help them eject Trump and it is helping them push their progressive agendas and fund them. This 1.9 Trillion Covid package is just an example. About 9% of it is actual Covid relief the rest is liberal progressive pork. But that's how evil genius the Democrats are. This virus is the best thing that ever happened to them, The goalposts keep changing daily. Fauci has no credibility anymore with the American public and this school issue is going to be the thing that finally pushes even Biden voters over the edge. If this was really about safety Biden wouldn't have reversed the migrant policy that Trump had in place. Unaccompanied children showing up at the border is up from 30k in 2019 to 110k this year and we are not even 3 months in. who knows how many of these migrants have covid. Again this is part and parcel of the evil genius get as many undocumented people you can and make them all legal there is your future voting block.


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AirWorthy99
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:30 pm

Wow, was I ever so wrong.

I had totally miscalculated the Democrats and leftists in this country.

I thought that once Trump was out, the politicization of COVID was going to end. But I was dead wrong. They seem intent in keeping this going on for a long time, me thinks past the 2024 election, they need more power, they need more reasons to keep people scared and dependent on government power. This mask thing has gone way over the politicization point. They made COVID political from the start and they won't let go.

So, despite having been vaccinated, and having told people for a year to put masks, its not enough, they need to keep the mask until its 'safe'. Which is synonym for never.

Paternalism and treating others as stupid idiots is the best way to keep the low information people controlled. Government knows best, you need to do what they say.

COVID is a failure of government, no matter who is in charge Trump or Biden, or Como o Desantis or Newsom or the CCP. It seems they don't care, they just want to keep people scared, depressed just to make sure you vote for them.

I tell you this, government authority only last until people comply, when people stop complying to these idiotic policies and get tired, next time there is a crisis people won't trust government again. 15 days to slow the spread, look at it now, its never going to end, or that's what they think. Everyone I know once they get vaccinated they will totally stop doing this, no matter what Biden or the Democrats say.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
johns624
Posts: 3452
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:33 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:

I thought that once Trump was out, the politicization of COVID was going to end. But I was dead wrong.
You're right. All the MAGA people I knew claimed that Covid-19 was going to disappear on November 4, that it was a political ploy.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:45 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Wow, was I ever so wrong.


You still are. (shrugs)
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:52 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Wow, was I ever so wrong.

I had totally miscalculated the Democrats and leftists in this country.

I thought that once Trump was out, the politicization of COVID was going to end. But I was dead wrong. They seem intent in keeping this going on for a long time, me thinks past the 2024 election, they need more power, they need more reasons to keep people scared and dependent on government power. This mask thing has gone way over the politicization point. They made COVID political from the start and they won't let go.

So, despite having been vaccinated, and having told people for a year to put masks, its not enough, they need to keep the mask until its 'safe'. Which is synonym for never.

Paternalism and treating others as stupid idiots is the best way to keep the low information people controlled. Government knows best, you need to do what they say.

COVID is a failure of government, no matter who is in charge Trump or Biden, or Como o Desantis or Newsom or the CCP. It seems they don't care, they just want to keep people scared, depressed just to make sure you vote for them.

I tell you this, government authority only last until people comply, when people stop complying to these idiotic policies and get tired, next time there is a crisis people won't trust government again. 15 days to slow the spread, look at it now, its never going to end, or that's what they think. Everyone I know once they get vaccinated they will totally stop doing this, no matter what Biden or the Democrats say.


Masks are not political at all in Taiwan - probably why they were able to fully reopen last summer. :sarcastic: The only people making masks political are those who didn't pass high school biology. Instead of making wild assumptions, why don't you simply ask a medical professional why masks may be needed until a saturation point of vaccination is reached? We have some right here on the forum.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1333
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:58 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Wow, was I ever so wrong.

I had totally miscalculated the Democrats and leftists in this country.

I thought that once Trump was out, the politicization of COVID was going to end. But I was dead wrong. They seem intent in keeping this going on for a long time, me thinks past the 2024 election, they need more power, they need more reasons to keep people scared and dependent on government power. This mask thing has gone way over the politicization point. They made COVID political from the start and they won't let go.

So, despite having been vaccinated, and having told people for a year to put masks, its not enough, they need to keep the mask until its 'safe'. Which is synonym for never.

Paternalism and treating others as stupid idiots is the best way to keep the low information people controlled. Government knows best, you need to do what they say.

COVID is a failure of government, no matter who is in charge Trump or Biden, or Como o Desantis or Newsom or the CCP. It seems they don't care, they just want to keep people scared, depressed just to make sure you vote for them.

I tell you this, government authority only last until people comply, when people stop complying to these idiotic policies and get tired, next time there is a crisis people won't trust government again. 15 days to slow the spread, look at it now, its never going to end, or that's what they think. Everyone I know once they get vaccinated they will totally stop doing this, no matter what Biden or the Democrats say.


Masks are not political at all in Taiwan - probably why they were able to fully reopen last summer. :sarcastic: The only people making masks political are those who didn't pass high school biology. Instead of making wild assumptions, why don't you simply ask a medical professional why masks may be needed until a saturation point of vaccination is reached? We have some right here on the forum.


Do you really care about biology?

Why is this statement controversial on the left and Democrats: There are only 2 genders, Male and Female.

I listen from college and university professors disputing this, and I am sure they passed biology. So leave "you did not pass biology" argument aside.

The rational and common sense rationale is, if I have a vaccine, there is no point in me having to wear a mask or socially distance, you don't need to even attend high school for that. Now if you wish to insist, good luck convincing millions of people in putting a vaccine that some already doubt and believe conspiracy theories, and put the vaccine but your life won't get back to normal. Good luck with that.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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NWAESC
Posts: 1688
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:07 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Masks are not political at all in Taiwan - probably why they were able to fully reopen last summer. :sarcastic: The only people making masks political are those who didn't pass high school biology. Instead of making wild assumptions, why don't you simply ask a medical professional why masks may be needed until a saturation point of vaccination is reached? We have some right here on the forum.


Taiwan values the collective. We're too busy throwing tantrums. They listened to science (and history). We listened to hot takes on Facebook.

To me, there's nothing more patriotic than looking out for one another. Shame that so many fellow Americans have been conditioned to forget that.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 13986
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:07 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Wow, was I ever so wrong.

I had totally miscalculated the Democrats and leftists in this country.

I thought that once Trump was out, the politicization of COVID was going to end. But I was dead wrong. They seem intent in keeping this going on for a long time, me thinks past the 2024 election, they need more power, they need more reasons to keep people scared and dependent on government power. This mask thing has gone way over the politicization point. They made COVID political from the start and they won't let go.

So, despite having been vaccinated, and having told people for a year to put masks, its not enough, they need to keep the mask until its 'safe'. Which is synonym for never.

Paternalism and treating others as stupid idiots is the best way to keep the low information people controlled. Government knows best, you need to do what they say.

COVID is a failure of government, no matter who is in charge Trump or Biden, or Como o Desantis or Newsom or the CCP. It seems they don't care, they just want to keep people scared, depressed just to make sure you vote for them.

I tell you this, government authority only last until people comply, when people stop complying to these idiotic policies and get tired, next time there is a crisis people won't trust government again. 15 days to slow the spread, look at it now, its never going to end, or that's what they think. Everyone I know once they get vaccinated they will totally stop doing this, no matter what Biden or the Democrats say.


Masks are not political at all in Taiwan - probably why they were able to fully reopen last summer. :sarcastic: The only people making masks political are those who didn't pass high school biology. Instead of making wild assumptions, why don't you simply ask a medical professional why masks may be needed until a saturation point of vaccination is reached? We have some right here on the forum.


Do you really care about biology?

Why is this statement controversial on the left and Democrats: There are only 2 genders, Male and Female.

I listen from college and university professors disputing this, and I am sure they passed biology. So leave "you did not pass biology" argument aside.

The rational and common sense rationale is, if I have a vaccine, there is no point in me having to wear a mask or socially distance, you don't need to even attend high school for that. Now if you wish to insist, good luck convincing millions of people in putting a vaccine that some already doubt and believe conspiracy theories, and put the vaccine but your life won't get back to normal. Good luck with that.


Nobody is talking about gender crap here. Getting back to your vaccine concern: what is your evidence for that? Why do you think no mask is necessary? Please explain in more detail so we can understand how you arrive at that silly conclusion.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1333
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:27 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Masks are not political at all in Taiwan - probably why they were able to fully reopen last summer. :sarcastic: The only people making masks political are those who didn't pass high school biology. Instead of making wild assumptions, why don't you simply ask a medical professional why masks may be needed until a saturation point of vaccination is reached? We have some right here on the forum.


Do you really care about biology?

Why is this statement controversial on the left and Democrats: There are only 2 genders, Male and Female.

I listen from college and university professors disputing this, and I am sure they passed biology. So leave "you did not pass biology" argument aside.

The rational and common sense rationale is, if I have a vaccine, there is no point in me having to wear a mask or socially distance, you don't need to even attend high school for that. Now if you wish to insist, good luck convincing millions of people in putting a vaccine that some already doubt and believe conspiracy theories, and put the vaccine but your life won't get back to normal. Good luck with that.


Nobody is talking about gender crap here. Getting back to your vaccine concern: what is your evidence for that? Why do you think no mask is necessary? Please explain in more detail so we can understand how you arrive at that silly conclusion.


No one is, but it is very tiresome to read your condescending posts saying you aren't an expert or you failed biology when you know very well, biology and science is not what's at play here. Everyone absolutely knows that kids don't spread COVID, but nonetheless many of the 'science' believers tell us is unsafe for children to be at school this is the same crowd saying that despite going through all the trouble of a year or more socially distanced and wearing a mask and putting on a vaccine you still need to socially distance and wear a mask.

You are asking me how did I arrive to that 'silly' conclusion. Well, if the point of the vaccine is to end the pandemic, why does an individual who already have the vaccine need to be held to these policies and restrictions? So what you are saying and many others is, if you have the vaccine, you still need to socially distance and wear a mask. My 4th grader can arrive at the same conclusion I have, why should I ever put a vaccine if I still need to do all of this?

Therefore 2 things must be happening here, either the vaccine is ineffective at stopping COVID which according to the studies on the vaccines it is effective. Or you wish to force me to do something I don't need, just because you have political power.

Which of the two?

If you are out there and know people, you might have just heard one or 2 doubt the vaccine, or say it may kill them. Is this a correct way of actually motivating and having people put a vaccine which at this point is voluntary?
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:49 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Do you really care about biology?

Why is this statement controversial on the left and Democrats: There are only 2 genders, Male and Female.

I listen from college and university professors disputing this, and I am sure they passed biology. So leave "you did not pass biology" argument aside.

The rational and common sense rationale is, if I have a vaccine, there is no point in me having to wear a mask or socially distance, you don't need to even attend high school for that. Now if you wish to insist, good luck convincing millions of people in putting a vaccine that some already doubt and believe conspiracy theories, and put the vaccine but your life won't get back to normal. Good luck with that.


Nobody is talking about gender crap here. Getting back to your vaccine concern: what is your evidence for that? Why do you think no mask is necessary? Please explain in more detail so we can understand how you arrive at that silly conclusion.


No one is, but it is very tiresome to read your condescending posts saying you aren't an expert or you failed biology when you know very well, biology and science is not what's at play here. Everyone absolutely knows that kids don't spread COVID, but nonetheless many of the 'science' believers tell us is unsafe for children to be at school this is the same crowd saying that despite going through all the trouble of a year or more socially distanced and wearing a mask and putting on a vaccine you still need to socially distance and wear a mask.

You are asking me how did I arrive to that 'silly' conclusion. Well, if the point of the vaccine is to end the pandemic, why does an individual who already have the vaccine need to be held to these policies and restrictions? So what you are saying and many others is, if you have the vaccine, you still need to socially distance and wear a mask. My 4th grader can arrive at the same conclusion I have, why should I ever put a vaccine if I still need to do all of this?

Therefore 2 things must be happening here, either the vaccine is ineffective at stopping COVID which according to the studies on the vaccines it is effective. Or you wish to force me to do something I don't need, just because you have political power.

Which of the two?

If you are out there and know people, you might have just heard one or 2 doubt the vaccine, or say it may kill them. Is this a correct way of actually motivating and having people put a vaccine which at this point is voluntary?


Alternative facts and misinformation are most tiresome of all. Your claims are wrong - the B117 variant of the virus has confirmed spread in kids in recent UK, French, Danish, and Japanese studies.

Image

https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1 ... 72704?s=21

You still don’t understand the vaccine process either. In most major illnesses, over 60% of the affected population should be vaccinated to keep the spread potential below the expansion curve. So the vaccine is effective for ending the pandemic more or less at that point.

For that reason and more, Mayo Clinic, Healthline, and every other major medical institution recommends continuing masking and distancing after being vaccinated, for now. The vaccine is literally brand new and there isn’t enough data to ensure viral loads in vaccinated people who are carriers are low enough not to put others at risk. Masks are for the safety of OTHERS.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... q-20506463

It's also not clear if the COVID-19 vaccines reduce the spread of the COVID-19 virus. As a result, it's not known if a person who is vaccinated could be a carrier of the COVID-19 virus and spread it to others, even if he or she doesn't become sick. More research is needed to determine if you are still contagious after being vaccinated.

None of your generalizations and claims stand up to the above information.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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c933103
Posts: 5272
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:14 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Wow, was I ever so wrong.

I had totally miscalculated the Democrats and leftists in this country.

I thought that once Trump was out, the politicization of COVID was going to end. But I was dead wrong. They seem intent in keeping this going on for a long time, me thinks past the 2024 election, they need more power, they need more reasons to keep people scared and dependent on government power. This mask thing has gone way over the politicization point. They made COVID political from the start and they won't let go.

So, despite having been vaccinated, and having told people for a year to put masks, its not enough, they need to keep the mask until its 'safe'. Which is synonym for never.

Paternalism and treating others as stupid idiots is the best way to keep the low information people controlled. Government knows best, you need to do what they say.

COVID is a failure of government, no matter who is in charge Trump or Biden, or Como o Desantis or Newsom or the CCP. It seems they don't care, they just want to keep people scared, depressed just to make sure you vote for them.

I tell you this, government authority only last until people comply, when people stop complying to these idiotic policies and get tired, next time there is a crisis people won't trust government again. 15 days to slow the spread, look at it now, its never going to end, or that's what they think. Everyone I know once they get vaccinated they will totally stop doing this, no matter what Biden or the Democrats say.


Masks are not political at all in Taiwan - probably why they were able to fully reopen last summer. :sarcastic: The only people making masks political are those who didn't pass high school biology. Instead of making wild assumptions, why don't you simply ask a medical professional why masks may be needed until a saturation point of vaccination is reached? We have some right here on the forum.

In Taiwan, the message from government and media are clear, the public are also prepared given other outbreak of coronavirus in the past, with measures like quarantining inbound travellers also well established and executed clearly.
Unlike most Western countries, including but not limited to the United States.
Yes, there are people who are poorly educated, those sort of people exists in every countries. They are also anything but insignificant in Taiwan, given the massive amount of work devoted by China onto the island. But why is the perception and action of the public end up being so different with Taiwan coming out significantly better? It come down to the messaging and policy.

Another thing to note about is that, since China is the first place where the outbreak was observed in the world, and as China have implemented nationwide strict lockdown across the country to curb the outbreak as a consequence of their previous month(s) of inaction which allowed the virus to spread, by March they are already seeing severe economic consequences and is trying to have a controlled reopening as the number of cases they have in their country per official record have declined significantly. But March is when the virus evolve into epidemic in Europe and America, and so those countries look at China, see what they're doing, see the economic consequence of lockdown, see the Chinese government vowing to keep the economy up while keep the case number down, they copied it without considering the discrepancy in circumstances, which resulted in the situation we are seeing now.

In the United States, when limiting arrival of traveller from across the Pacific was described as racist and limiting arrival of traveller from across the Atlantic was described as lack of cooperation, there are also a lack of trust in government anti-pandemic efforts, although there are many rooms to discuss who caused such sort of lack of trust.

Ultimately, these policies and measures as decided by politicians are all political judgement, as they need to consider all different real world parameters when deciding to or not to enact any policies or tools. There are nothing the politicians decides that are not political.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate. 求同存異. よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 7391
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:17 pm

Show me the “science” that vaccinated persons can carry an infecting viral load because it would be unique in the history of vaccines. We take the flu shot so we don’t spread the flu.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1333
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:37 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Nobody is talking about gender crap here. Getting back to your vaccine concern: what is your evidence for that? Why do you think no mask is necessary? Please explain in more detail so we can understand how you arrive at that silly conclusion.


No one is, but it is very tiresome to read your condescending posts saying you aren't an expert or you failed biology when you know very well, biology and science is not what's at play here. Everyone absolutely knows that kids don't spread COVID, but nonetheless many of the 'science' believers tell us is unsafe for children to be at school this is the same crowd saying that despite going through all the trouble of a year or more socially distanced and wearing a mask and putting on a vaccine you still need to socially distance and wear a mask.

You are asking me how did I arrive to that 'silly' conclusion. Well, if the point of the vaccine is to end the pandemic, why does an individual who already have the vaccine need to be held to these policies and restrictions? So what you are saying and many others is, if you have the vaccine, you still need to socially distance and wear a mask. My 4th grader can arrive at the same conclusion I have, why should I ever put a vaccine if I still need to do all of this?

Therefore 2 things must be happening here, either the vaccine is ineffective at stopping COVID which according to the studies on the vaccines it is effective. Or you wish to force me to do something I don't need, just because you have political power.

Which of the two?

If you are out there and know people, you might have just heard one or 2 doubt the vaccine, or say it may kill them. Is this a correct way of actually motivating and having people put a vaccine which at this point is voluntary?


Alternative facts and misinformation are most tiresome of all. Your claims are wrong - the B117 variant of the virus has confirmed spread in kids in recent UK, French, Danish, and Japanese studies.

Image

https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1 ... 72704?s=21

You still don’t understand the vaccine process either. In most major illnesses, over 60% of the affected population should be vaccinated to keep the spread potential below the expansion curve. So the vaccine is effective for ending the pandemic more or less at that point.

For that reason and more, Mayo Clinic, Healthline, and every other major medical institution recommends continuing masking and distancing after being vaccinated, for now. The vaccine is literally brand new and there isn’t enough data to ensure viral loads in vaccinated people who are carriers are low enough not to put others at risk. Masks are for the safety of OTHERS.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... q-20506463

It's also not clear if the COVID-19 vaccines reduce the spread of the COVID-19 virus. As a result, it's not known if a person who is vaccinated could be a carrier of the COVID-19 virus and spread it to others, even if he or she doesn't become sick. More research is needed to determine if you are still contagious after being vaccinated.

None of your generalizations and claims stand up to the above information.


So with that premise, we will be locking down, masking up and socially distancing for decades. Because as you can state here, this is recipe to have COVID 19 spread for an infinite amount of time, thus you need to mask up and stay locked down.

Something no one mentions, COVID 19 is not the only threat any person can have in their lives. There might be other diseases, there can be famine, there can be war, there can be violence.

There are risks for everything we do, if we are going to stop living just because there is a risk for something, then what's the point of living really?

In the end, everyone will continue to live, even those who today say we should be locked down and masking up despite having a vaccine, even they will become tired and will make their own risk assessments on the things they do on a daily basis.

The main problem will be the the next time a crisis like this goes on, I highly highly doubt people will take part in doing all of this we have been doing for more than a year now. Government, the media, scientists and politicians have lost all credibility.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 13986
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:39 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Show me the “science” that vaccinated persons can carry an infecting viral load because it would be unique in the history of vaccines. We take the flu shot so we don’t spread the flu.


What part of ‘there isn’t definitive data yet’ do you not understand? That’s how science works - things are possible/likely/unlikely until data reports what they really are. The results on transmission reduction so far from the Pfizer vaccine are promising, but there’s a lot of uncertainty to be cleared up regarding new variants that keep emerging. The latest one in Brazil is a bastard.

And re flu, you have that wrong. We take the flu shot so that we don’t become ill from this year’s strain.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:50 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

No one is, but it is very tiresome to read your condescending posts saying you aren't an expert or you failed biology when you know very well, biology and science is not what's at play here. Everyone absolutely knows that kids don't spread COVID, but nonetheless many of the 'science' believers tell us is unsafe for children to be at school this is the same crowd saying that despite going through all the trouble of a year or more socially distanced and wearing a mask and putting on a vaccine you still need to socially distance and wear a mask.

You are asking me how did I arrive to that 'silly' conclusion. Well, if the point of the vaccine is to end the pandemic, why does an individual who already have the vaccine need to be held to these policies and restrictions? So what you are saying and many others is, if you have the vaccine, you still need to socially distance and wear a mask. My 4th grader can arrive at the same conclusion I have, why should I ever put a vaccine if I still need to do all of this?

Therefore 2 things must be happening here, either the vaccine is ineffective at stopping COVID which according to the studies on the vaccines it is effective. Or you wish to force me to do something I don't need, just because you have political power.

Which of the two?

If you are out there and know people, you might have just heard one or 2 doubt the vaccine, or say it may kill them. Is this a correct way of actually motivating and having people put a vaccine which at this point is voluntary?


Alternative facts and misinformation are most tiresome of all. Your claims are wrong - the B117 variant of the virus has confirmed spread in kids in recent UK, French, Danish, and Japanese studies.

Image

https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1 ... 72704?s=21

You still don’t understand the vaccine process either. In most major illnesses, over 60% of the affected population should be vaccinated to keep the spread potential below the expansion curve. So the vaccine is effective for ending the pandemic more or less at that point.

For that reason and more, Mayo Clinic, Healthline, and every other major medical institution recommends continuing masking and distancing after being vaccinated, for now. The vaccine is literally brand new and there isn’t enough data to ensure viral loads in vaccinated people who are carriers are low enough not to put others at risk. Masks are for the safety of OTHERS.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... q-20506463

It's also not clear if the COVID-19 vaccines reduce the spread of the COVID-19 virus. As a result, it's not known if a person who is vaccinated could be a carrier of the COVID-19 virus and spread it to others, even if he or she doesn't become sick. More research is needed to determine if you are still contagious after being vaccinated.

None of your generalizations and claims stand up to the above information.


So with that premise, we will be locking down, masking up and socially distancing for decades. Because as you can state here, this is recipe to have COVID 19 spread for an infinite amount of time, thus you need to mask up and stay locked down.

Something no one mentions, COVID 19 is not the only threat any person can have in their lives. There might be other diseases, there can be famine, there can be war, there can be violence.

There are risks for everything we do, if we are going to stop living just because there is a risk for something, then what's the point of living really?

In the end, everyone will continue to live, even those who today say we should be locked down and masking up despite having a vaccine, even they will become tired and will make their own risk assessments on the things they do on a daily basis.

The main problem will be the the next time a crisis like this goes on, I highly highly doubt people will take part in doing all of this we have been doing for more than a year now. Government, the media, scientists and politicians have lost all credibility.


Nobody said anything about decades or locking down. You really don’t read carefully and don’t appreciate the abilities of our researchers and scientists who have worked on this tirelessly for 13 months straight all over the world.

There are three vaccines on the market now - more than 100 million doses will be available before May. This will indelibly protect the elderly and frontline workers most at-risk. Nearly all activities will be able to be normalize by summer if enough people get the vaccine. 65% of Americans are overweight and that’s also a major COVID risk factor, so the more the merrier.

The purpose of staying masked NOW is for everyone’s protection because other COVID mutations are still emerging in the US and globally and its unknown how effective the vaccine is with all variants. You’re really making a ridiculous amount of complaining for something as simple as loops over the ear. We want to stay on target so the best possible scenario for this spring and summer happens. You are either with the program for getting in the clear, or you’re in the way.
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Tugger
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:26 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Show me the “science” that vaccinated persons can carry an infecting viral load because it would be unique in the history of vaccines. We take the flu shot so we don’t spread the flu.

You are being intentionally uneducated, which I don't understand as based on your posts you pride yourself on being smart and reasoned, educated.
I literally just googled "vaccinated persons can carry an infecting viral load", exactly what you wrote, no effort, nothing. Just the question you proffered and got these:
https://www.crainsdetroit.com/coronavir ... oronavirus
2. Don't vaccines stop infection and thus transmission?

Some do and some don't. The gold standard in vaccinology is to stop infection as well as disease -- providing so-called sterilizing immunity. But it's not always achieved. The vaccine for measles, for example, provides it; the one for hepatitis B does not.

3. Do COVID vaccines have to prevent infection to stop transmission?

Not necessarily. To the extent a vaccine prevents infection, it also prevents forward transmission. But it can do the latter without doing the former. Since SARS-CoV-2 spreads through respiratory particles from an infected person's throat and nose, a vaccine that reduces the duration of the infection, the amount of virus in the respiratory tract (the viral load), or how often an infected person coughs may decrease the likelihood of it being transmitted to others.


https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00450-z
In preliminary work, one team observed a significant drop in viral load in a small number of people infected with SARS-CoV-2 in the two to four weeks after receiving their first dose of the Pfizer vaccine, compared with those who caught the virus in the first two weeks after the injection2. “The data is certainly intriguing and suggestive that vaccination may reduce the infectiousness of COVID-19 cases, even if it does not prevent infection altogether,” says Virginia Pitzer, an infectious-diseases modeller at Yale School of Public Health in New Haven, Connecticut. The Oxford–AstraZeneca trial also observed a larger reduction in viral load in a small group of vaccinated participants than in the unvaccinated group.


https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/6-my ... s-debunked

The most convincing evidence, though, is just starting to emerge among real-world data. In Israel, where more than 90% of those age 60 and over have been vaccinated, “cases have plummeted in this population,” Gandhi notes. “Not just hospitalizations, which we expected, but cases [asymptomatic infection] as well.” Moreover, data from vaccinated health care workers recently published in the Lancet and preprint servers show reduced rates of asymptomatic infection and low viral loads in the nose when swabbing after vaccination.

“I think that in a few months, we are going to be able to say with certainty that these vaccines not only protect you, they also protect those around you,” Ranney says.


https://www.jpost.com/health-science/ca ... rus-660244
Although it is scientifically intuitive that a reduction in infection and transmission would come with vaccination, and preliminary signs suggest that the vaccine does do at least some of both, according to Cyrille Cohen, head of the immunotherapy laboratory at Bar-Ilan University, “we need proof” and that these are exceedingly difficult studies to do.
Having the answer would have “obvious” and “major implications” on people’s daily lives, said Eran Segal, a computational biologist at the Weizmann Institute of Science. That is because to achieve herd immunity, the vaccine would need to prevent transmission.


https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 21251283v1
Beyond their substantial protection of individual vaccinees, it is hoped that the COVID-19 vaccines would reduce viral load in breakthrough infections thereby further suppress onward transmission. Here, analyzing positive SARS-CoV-2 test results following inoculation with the BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine, we find that the viral load is reduced 4-fold for infections occurring 12-28 days after the first dose of vaccine. These reduced viral loads hint to lower infectiousness, further contributing to vaccine impact on virus spread.


https://www.emsworld.com/article/122556 ... d-vaccines
Point #4: “I don’t need to wear a mask anymore because I’ve been vaccinated.”
You can still develop COVID after being vaccinated, and while you may not get sick enough to be hospitalized from the virus, you can still spread it to patients, family members, and coworkers. We will still need to wear masks to break the chain of infection. The sooner we get everyone vaccinated and wearing masks, the sooner we can drive this virus from our communities.


So you could have answered your own question but the truth is you want to be ignorant of things so you can just stay thinking what you want.

At least that is how it comes across. And I don't really think that is who you are so I just don't understand what you are trying to do or are thinking

Yes vaccination reduces the risk of transmission, significantly it appears. But it does not as far as we know eliminate it, so you may still be putting people at risk, you may be putting loved ones in danger of getting COVID. And to me that should be a pretty clear reason why you should continue to wear a mask when out in public or around those that have not yet been vaccinated.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
Kent350787
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sun Mar 07, 2021 2:00 am

Tugger wrote:

Yes vaccination reduces the risk of transmission, significantly it appears. But it does not as far as we know eliminate it, so you may still be putting people at risk, you may be putting loved ones in danger of getting COVID. And to me that should be a pretty clear reason why you should continue to wear a mask when out in public or around those that have not yet been vaccinated.

Tugg


My brother-in-law has had his two Pfizer shots, but is still masking up and practicing good hygeine as his wife, toddler son and mother-in-law who lives with them haven't been vaccinated. The fact he's also a microbiology post-doc at Harvard possibly also gives further insight.

In my city of 6 million people we still have mask mandates on public transport and in cinemas/theatres (which can fill to 100% seating). Centralised electronic check-in at hospitality venues is mandatory, as mask wearing is difficult whilst eating or drinking, but experience has shown that hotels and restaurants are a transmission risk. Most of the community could name the handful of restaurants and hotels at the epicentre of several clusters.

We're prepared to live with these things as we see the reasonable sense - but also know we have had zero cases outside quarantine for the best part of two months, and zero cases across the nation of 25 million in almost 3 weeks outside quarantine.

The case for mask and other Covid-risky "freedom" in the US in particular appears to be wantonly careless towards human life, if not borderline insane.
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Re: Mask Mandate in Texas Lifted

Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:31 am

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