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MaverickM11
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Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:13 pm

More all lives matter legislation from the pro life crowd....

Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

"On a party-line vote Wednesday, the House passed a bill that grants civil and criminal immunity for drivers who unintentionally injure or kill protesters while “fleeing from a riot.”

House Bill 1674 from Rep. Kevin West, R-Moore, is just one of a handful of GOP-sponsored bills in the Oklahoma Legislature this year designed to crack down on protests."

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/po ... 031rQXBjHs
Last edited by SQ22 on Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Clickbait title
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petertenthije
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:28 pm

I wonder what happens if a Q-anon protestor where run over.
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FGITD
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:28 pm

Just wait. Guarantee there will be an instance of some idiot driving a truck full of guns hitting some protestor and making the argument that they were fleeing out of “fear for their lives”

I think the inclusion of “unintentional” will be this bills downfall. Most of the videos I’ve seen of people driving into protestors seem VERY intentional.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:33 pm

FGITD wrote:
Just wait. Guarantee there will be an instance of some idiot driving a truck full of guns hitting some protestor and making the argument that they were fleeing out of “fear for their lives”

I think the inclusion of “unintentional” will be this bills downfall. Most of the videos I’ve seen of people driving into protestors seem VERY intentional.

It continues a long, proud tradition of killing protesters and avoiding accountability. Kent State is a model, not a cautionary tale for the right.
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N583JB
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:50 pm

I'm in favor of this bill. Key word is "unintentionally". Given some of the tactics of "protesters" on both sides of the political spectrum that involve cornering cars, smashing windows and sometimes assaulting the occupants of those vehicles, there's no way a driver should be able to be sued for trying to escape that madness. Also, have seen several videos of protesters trying to block the road and either jumping onto a car or getting grazed by a car moving half a mile an hour and flopping on the ground, screaming in agony, just looking for a lawsuit. Screw those people.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:21 am

Remember Reginald Denny.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:49 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
More all lives matter legislation from the pro life crowd....

Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

"On a party-line vote Wednesday, the House passed a bill that grants civil and criminal immunity for drivers who unintentionally injure or kill protesters while “fleeing from a riot.”

House Bill 1674 from Rep. Kevin West, R-Moore, is just one of a handful of GOP-sponsored bills in the Oklahoma Legislature this year designed to crack down on protests."

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/po ... 031rQXBjHs



It is a pathetic bill by racist frauds.

The criminality of an act is determined by investigation after the fact. Granting Civil and criminal immunity for someone that causes more harm because they think they are "fleeting a riot" is a gray area that is already handled by existing police procedures.

All this really is , for Oklahoma( home of the Tulsa Race Massacre) is just another way to scare and intimidate people with legitimate grievances from protesting their racist leaders.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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moo
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:02 am

Stand your ground, castle defence, self defence laws...

Absolutely no chance we arent going to see this new law massively misused by self-interested idiots to murder people with the blessing of the state.

The US is a mess, this doesnt make things less messier.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:22 am

One potential abuse could be in breaking picketing lines of workers on strike.
 
FGITD
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:32 am

ltbewr wrote:
One potential abuse could be in breaking picketing lines of workers on strike.


Among other problems, this is one of the reasons this is a very short sighted bill.

It was created with the vision that the rioters would be a specific group they don’t like.

What happens if the riot is a bunch of students after a championship? Or workers striking? Still ok to kill them with your car?

And again...who gets to decide what constitutes a riot? Ever driven a car through a crowded area, regardless of their demeanor? It’s fairly intimidating even if the crowd is friendly.
 
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:50 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Remember Reginald Denny.

VERY different situation and the CA law took Denny's side on that in the end.
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FGITD
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:23 am

stl07 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Remember Reginald Denny.

VERY different situation and the CA law took Denny's side on that in the end.


Not to mention...remember Reginald Denny? He's not dead. Horrible what happened to him though.

How about we remember Heather Heyer? I'm sure a lot of people don't recognize that name.

She was killed by a vehicle while protesting in Charlottesville. Driven by one of those peaceful Republican protesters who gathered to promote their views.

Oh my mistake. It was a car driven by right wing neo nazi. One of those "good people" that all those unite the right rallies inexplicably kept attracting for some unknown and definitely unrelated reason.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:09 am

casinterest wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
More all lives matter legislation from the pro life crowd....

Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

"On a party-line vote Wednesday, the House passed a bill that grants civil and criminal immunity for drivers who unintentionally injure or kill protesters while “fleeing from a riot.”

House Bill 1674 from Rep. Kevin West, R-Moore, is just one of a handful of GOP-sponsored bills in the Oklahoma Legislature this year designed to crack down on protests."

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/po ... 031rQXBjHs



It is a pathetic bill by racist frauds.

The criminality of an act is determined by investigation after the fact. Granting Civil and criminal immunity for someone that causes more harm because they think they are "fleeting a riot" is a gray area that is already handled by existing police procedures.

All this really is , for Oklahoma( home of the Tulsa Race Massacre) is just another way to scare and intimidate people with legitimate grievances from protesting their racist leaders.


One has to note the difference between riot and protesters.
If there is a riot during a protest, you flee from the riot bit of it and run over a protester, by definition not involved in the riot, that citizen executing his 1st amendment rights, or his family, can not sue for damages?

Yeah, sounds absolutely just to me...

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:45 am

casinterest wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
More all lives matter legislation from the pro life crowd....

Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

"On a party-line vote Wednesday, the House passed a bill that grants civil and criminal immunity for drivers who unintentionally injure or kill protesters while “fleeing from a riot.”

House Bill 1674 from Rep. Kevin West, R-Moore, is just one of a handful of GOP-sponsored bills in the Oklahoma Legislature this year designed to crack down on protests."

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/po ... 031rQXBjHs



It is a pathetic bill by racist frauds.

The criminality of an act is determined by investigation after the fact. Granting Civil and criminal immunity for someone that causes more harm because they think they are "fleeting a riot" is a gray area that is already handled by existing police procedures.

All this really is , for Oklahoma( home of the Tulsa Race Massacre) is just another way to scare and intimidate people with legitimate grievances from protesting their racist leaders.


Or it could be a women leaving an abortion clinic running over pro-lifers protesting outside.

If applied correctly this is a bill that will cover all sides of the political and racial spectrum.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:45 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
More all lives matter legislation from the pro life crowd....

Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

"On a party-line vote Wednesday, the House passed a bill that grants civil and criminal immunity for drivers who unintentionally injure or kill protesters while “fleeing from a riot.”

House Bill 1674 from Rep. Kevin West, R-Moore, is just one of a handful of GOP-sponsored bills in the Oklahoma Legislature this year designed to crack down on protests."

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/po ... 031rQXBjHs


My take, if someone flees a scene in fear for their life, I guess it is already protected under the current law. So all this does is taking away other checks and balances on this. Nobody should be in favor this. If you think about it for two seconds, sounds like a populistic measure with potentially dire consequences for society at large.
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bennett123
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:26 am

What about if the conduct is negligent or reckless?.
 
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T18
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:53 pm

bennett123 wrote:
What about if the conduct is negligent or reckless?.


Based on Castle Doctrine and Stand your ground cases/ explainers I've read, Reckless or Negligent conduct is never (supposed to be) protected by such laws, I would expect a similar precedent here.
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casinterest
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:10 pm

T18 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
What about if the conduct is negligent or reckless?.


Based on Castle Doctrine and Stand your ground cases/ explainers I've read, Reckless or Negligent conduct is never (supposed to be) protected by such laws, I would expect a similar precedent here.



The truth is that neither of these bill are required when reckless and negligent conduct can be charged. It is a feel good bill to keep donations coming in from those that the politicians can effectively lie to.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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seb146
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:23 pm

Another Republican "solution" in search of a problem. I am still wondering if this applies to MAGA protesters blocking traffic? No, probably not....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
johns624
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:47 pm

N583JB wrote:
I'm in favor of this bill. Key word is "unintentionally". Given some of the tactics of "protesters" on both sides of the political spectrum that involve cornering cars, smashing windows and sometimes assaulting the occupants of those vehicles, there's no way a driver should be able to be sued for trying to escape that madness. Also, have seen several videos of protesters trying to block the road and either jumping onto a car or getting grazed by a car moving half a mile an hour and flopping on the ground, screaming in agony, just looking for a lawsuit. Screw those people.
I agree.
 
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seb146
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:01 pm

johns624 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
I'm in favor of this bill. Key word is "unintentionally". Given some of the tactics of "protesters" on both sides of the political spectrum that involve cornering cars, smashing windows and sometimes assaulting the occupants of those vehicles, there's no way a driver should be able to be sued for trying to escape that madness. Also, have seen several videos of protesters trying to block the road and either jumping onto a car or getting grazed by a car moving half a mile an hour and flopping on the ground, screaming in agony, just looking for a lawsuit. Screw those people.
I agree.


Conversely, there are those who intentionally drive to where protests are happening and run people down and make excuses. "I didn't know there was a protest" or "I had the light" or some BS excuse.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
johns624
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:56 pm

seb146 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
I'm in favor of this bill. Key word is "unintentionally". Given some of the tactics of "protesters" on both sides of the political spectrum that involve cornering cars, smashing windows and sometimes assaulting the occupants of those vehicles, there's no way a driver should be able to be sued for trying to escape that madness. Also, have seen several videos of protesters trying to block the road and either jumping onto a car or getting grazed by a car moving half a mile an hour and flopping on the ground, screaming in agony, just looking for a lawsuit. Screw those people.
I agree.


Conversely, there are those who intentionally drive to where protests are happening and run people down and make excuses. "I didn't know there was a protest" or "I had the light" or some BS excuse.
Like N583JB said, the key word is "unintentionally". It's pretty obvious the difference. In my concealed carry class, it was brought up. The answer is if you're surrounded by people with bats, etc., hitting on your car, you give a couple of blasts on the horn and start driving away. Not speeding, but a constant 5mph or so. You're giving people time to get out of the way. If they don't, it's on them. They were constituting a threat to your life. Once your windows are broken, one more swing and you could be seriously hurt or killed. Don't let it come to that. I don't care whether it's Proud Boys, Antifa, BLM, Klan, or anyone else. My wife and I's lives are too important to be ruined by a bunch of a-holes. I don't have time for idiots on either fringe of the spectrum.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:08 pm

johns624 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
I agree.


Conversely, there are those who intentionally drive to where protests are happening and run people down and make excuses. "I didn't know there was a protest" or "I had the light" or some BS excuse.
Like N583JB said, the key word is "unintentionally". It's pretty obvious the difference. In my concealed carry class, it was brought up. The answer is if you're surrounded by people with bats, etc., hitting on your car, you give a couple of blasts on the horn and start driving away. Not speeding, but a constant 5mph or so. You're giving people time to get out of the way. If they don't, it's on them. They were constituting a threat to your life. Once your windows are broken, one more swing and you could be seriously hurt or killed. Don't let it come to that. I don't care whether it's Proud Boys, Antifa, BLM, Klan, or anyone else. My wife and I's lives are too important to be ruined by a bunch of a-holes. I don't have time for idiots on either fringe of the spectrum.



All of this is covered under current law. This bill is more bureaucracy for cash.

The majority of this bill is criminalizing protestors. No charges that i know of have ever been filed against a driver fleeing a riot with care. Especially the case of the driver in Oklahoma during the riot.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
johns624
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:22 pm

casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Conversely, there are those who intentionally drive to where protests are happening and run people down and make excuses. "I didn't know there was a protest" or "I had the light" or some BS excuse.
Like N583JB said, the key word is "unintentionally". It's pretty obvious the difference. In my concealed carry class, it was brought up. The answer is if you're surrounded by people with bats, etc., hitting on your car, you give a couple of blasts on the horn and start driving away. Not speeding, but a constant 5mph or so. You're giving people time to get out of the way. If they don't, it's on them. They were constituting a threat to your life. Once your windows are broken, one more swing and you could be seriously hurt or killed. Don't let it come to that. I don't care whether it's Proud Boys, Antifa, BLM, Klan, or anyone else. My wife and I's lives are too important to be ruined by a bunch of a-holes. I don't have time for idiots on either fringe of the spectrum.



All of this is covered under current law. This bill is more bureaucracy for cash.

The majority of this bill is criminalizing protestors. No charges that i know of have ever been filed against a driver fleeing a riot with care. Especially the case of the driver in Oklahoma during the riot.
It's not like this is the first time that politicians have passed laws that were already covered by other laws. Murder is already a crime punishable by at least a life sentence but let's make it a hate crime, too. It's already a felony for a felon to possess a gun but let's make it harder for lawabiding people to sell or buy a gun. It goes on and on and on...
 
N583JB
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:00 am

casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Conversely, there are those who intentionally drive to where protests are happening and run people down and make excuses. "I didn't know there was a protest" or "I had the light" or some BS excuse.
Like N583JB said, the key word is "unintentionally". It's pretty obvious the difference. In my concealed carry class, it was brought up. The answer is if you're surrounded by people with bats, etc., hitting on your car, you give a couple of blasts on the horn and start driving away. Not speeding, but a constant 5mph or so. You're giving people time to get out of the way. If they don't, it's on them. They were constituting a threat to your life. Once your windows are broken, one more swing and you could be seriously hurt or killed. Don't let it come to that. I don't care whether it's Proud Boys, Antifa, BLM, Klan, or anyone else. My wife and I's lives are too important to be ruined by a bunch of a-holes. I don't have time for idiots on either fringe of the spectrum.



All of this is covered under current law. This bill is more bureaucracy for cash.

The majority of this bill is criminalizing protestors. No charges that i know of have ever been filed against a driver fleeing a riot with care. Especially the case of the driver in Oklahoma during the riot.


The bill provides drivers with civil protections....i.e. prevents them from having to pay out needlessly for no reason. That's just as important as the legal protections that seem to be driving most of the discussion here.

If you, casinterest, happen to make a wrong turn while driving home from dinner one night and find yourself surrounded by people trying to smash your windows, you should be able to flee that scene without having to worry about having to shell out thousands for an attorney to defend you against a frivolous lawsuit.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:12 am

N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Like N583JB said, the key word is "unintentionally". It's pretty obvious the difference. In my concealed carry class, it was brought up. The answer is if you're surrounded by people with bats, etc., hitting on your car, you give a couple of blasts on the horn and start driving away. Not speeding, but a constant 5mph or so. You're giving people time to get out of the way. If they don't, it's on them. They were constituting a threat to your life. Once your windows are broken, one more swing and you could be seriously hurt or killed. Don't let it come to that. I don't care whether it's Proud Boys, Antifa, BLM, Klan, or anyone else. My wife and I's lives are too important to be ruined by a bunch of a-holes. I don't have time for idiots on either fringe of the spectrum.



All of this is covered under current law. This bill is more bureaucracy for cash.

The majority of this bill is criminalizing protestors. No charges that i know of have ever been filed against a driver fleeing a riot with care. Especially the case of the driver in Oklahoma during the riot.


The bill provides drivers with civil protections....i.e. prevents them from having to pay out needlessly for no reason. That's just as important as the legal protections that seem to be driving most of the discussion here.

If you, casinterest, happen to make a wrong turn while driving home from dinner one night and find yourself surrounded by people trying to smash your windows, you should be able to flee that scene without having to worry about having to shell out thousands for an attorney to defend you against a frivolous lawsuit.

This is pure conservative fantasy nonsense, like antifa hiding under the bed, or blue lives matter
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seb146
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:33 am

johns624 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
I agree.


Conversely, there are those who intentionally drive to where protests are happening and run people down and make excuses. "I didn't know there was a protest" or "I had the light" or some BS excuse.
Like N583JB said, the key word is "unintentionally". It's pretty obvious the difference. In my concealed carry class, it was brought up. The answer is if you're surrounded by people with bats, etc., hitting on your car, you give a couple of blasts on the horn and start driving away. Not speeding, but a constant 5mph or so. You're giving people time to get out of the way. If they don't, it's on them. They were constituting a threat to your life. Once your windows are broken, one more swing and you could be seriously hurt or killed. Don't let it come to that. I don't care whether it's Proud Boys, Antifa, BLM, Klan, or anyone else. My wife and I's lives are too important to be ruined by a bunch of a-holes. I don't have time for idiots on either fringe of the spectrum.


So it is just more solutions in search of a problem. More Republicans creating bigger government. We all know who this bill is meant to cover. Let's just say it: they want the right to run down anyone who protests against Republicans, MAGA, and racists.
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tommy1808
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:10 am

johns624 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
I agree.


Conversely, there are those who intentionally drive to where protests are happening and run people down and make excuses. "I didn't know there was a protest" or "I had the light" or some BS excuse.
Like N583JB said, the key word is "unintentionally". It's pretty obvious the difference. In my concealed carry class, it was brought up. The answer is if you're surrounded by people with bats, etc., hitting on your car, you give a couple of blasts on the horn and start driving away. Not speeding, but a constant 5mph or so. You're giving people time to get out of the way. If they don't, it's on them. They were constituting a threat to your life. Once your windows are broken, one more swing and you could be seriously hurt or killed. Don't let it come to that. I don't care whether it's Proud Boys, Antifa, BLM, Klan, or anyone else. My wife and I's lives are too important to be ruined by a bunch of a-holes. I don't have time for idiots on either fringe of the spectrum.


only this bill is about running down protesters, not rioters, while fleeing a riot.That can only happen if you already left the rioters behind you.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:14 am

moo wrote:
Stand your ground, castle defence, self defence laws...

Absolutely no chance we arent going to see this new law massively misused by self-interested idiots to murder people with the blessing of the state.

The US is a mess, this doesnt make things less messier.


Just a nitpick point... self-defence laws in German-language countries are even more liberal. Somebody illegally hinders you when you're doing something legal? If it is the mildest means that effectively and immediately stops the hindrance, you can shoot (or run over) anybody at any time. Your life does not need to be in danger for that.

But then there's the easy access to guns in the US, and the different mentality...
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tommy1808
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:22 am

flyingturtle wrote:
moo wrote:
Stand your ground, castle defence, self defence laws...

Absolutely no chance we arent going to see this new law massively misused by self-interested idiots to murder people with the blessing of the state.

The US is a mess, this doesnt make things less messier.


Just a nitpick point... self-defence laws in German-language countries are even more liberal. .


Germany is definitely a German speaking country and that is definitely not the case:

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/engl ... html#p0185

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:49 am

tommy1808 wrote:
flyingturtle wrote:
moo wrote:
Stand your ground, castle defence, self defence laws...

Absolutely no chance we arent going to see this new law massively misused by self-interested idiots to murder people with the blessing of the state.

The US is a mess, this doesnt make things less messier.


Just a nitpick point... self-defence laws in German-language countries are even more liberal. .


Germany is definitely a German speaking country and that is definitely not the case:

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/engl ... html#p0185

best regards
Thomas


Can you point to the specific clause that makes it less liberal than the US regulations?

And: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-you ... eutschland
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
tommy1808
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:34 am

flyingturtle wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
flyingturtle wrote:

Just a nitpick point... self-defence laws in German-language countries are even more liberal. .


Germany is definitely a German speaking country and that is definitely not the case:

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/engl ... html#p0185

best regards
Thomas


Can you point to the specific clause that makes it less liberal than the US regulations?

And: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-you ... eutschland


Whoever, when faced with a present danger to life, limb, liberty, honour, property or another legal interest which cannot otherwise be averted


Example: in 2010 a 77 year old retiree in Sittensen (Hamburg) fell victim to a robbery in his house by five perps, he was a hunter and hence head guns. He was tied up and mistreated, had a (softair) gun held to his head, he somehow managed to get free enough to get to a pistol he kept in a bag at the chair he was in, scared them of and in his panic shot one of them in the back. He was convicted, even with the court recognizing he was scared for his life. Mild sentence, 9 month on parole, but nonetheless.The risk could have been averted doing nothing at that point.
The case went all the way up to the BGH, the highest applicable court, and the ruling was confirmed in 2015. https://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/bg ... -1.2710693

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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casinterest
Posts: 13113
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:37 pm

N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Like N583JB said, the key word is "unintentionally". It's pretty obvious the difference. In my concealed carry class, it was brought up. The answer is if you're surrounded by people with bats, etc., hitting on your car, you give a couple of blasts on the horn and start driving away. Not speeding, but a constant 5mph or so. You're giving people time to get out of the way. If they don't, it's on them. They were constituting a threat to your life. Once your windows are broken, one more swing and you could be seriously hurt or killed. Don't let it come to that. I don't care whether it's Proud Boys, Antifa, BLM, Klan, or anyone else. My wife and I's lives are too important to be ruined by a bunch of a-holes. I don't have time for idiots on either fringe of the spectrum.



All of this is covered under current law. This bill is more bureaucracy for cash.

The majority of this bill is criminalizing protestors. No charges that i know of have ever been filed against a driver fleeing a riot with care. Especially the case of the driver in Oklahoma during the riot.


The bill provides drivers with civil protections....i.e. prevents them from having to pay out needlessly for no reason. That's just as important as the legal protections that seem to be driving most of the discussion here.

If you, casinterest, happen to make a wrong turn while driving home from dinner one night and find yourself surrounded by people trying to smash your windows, you should be able to flee that scene without having to worry about having to shell out thousands for an attorney to defend you against a frivolous lawsuit.



Show me a successful lawsuit like this. This is all drivel by dishonorable racists that want to be more like China in quieting protests. Everyone who is reasonably attacked has a right to flee the scene with care.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
N583JB
Posts: 1084
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:40 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:


All of this is covered under current law. This bill is more bureaucracy for cash.

The majority of this bill is criminalizing protestors. No charges that i know of have ever been filed against a driver fleeing a riot with care. Especially the case of the driver in Oklahoma during the riot.


The bill provides drivers with civil protections....i.e. prevents them from having to pay out needlessly for no reason. That's just as important as the legal protections that seem to be driving most of the discussion here.

If you, casinterest, happen to make a wrong turn while driving home from dinner one night and find yourself surrounded by people trying to smash your windows, you should be able to flee that scene without having to worry about having to shell out thousands for an attorney to defend you against a frivolous lawsuit.

This is pure conservative fantasy nonsense, like antifa hiding under the bed, or blue lives matter


It is nonsense until you are the one looking at emptying out your savings account because you bumped someone while fleeing a riot.
 
N583JB
Posts: 1084
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:41 pm

casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:


All of this is covered under current law. This bill is more bureaucracy for cash.

The majority of this bill is criminalizing protestors. No charges that i know of have ever been filed against a driver fleeing a riot with care. Especially the case of the driver in Oklahoma during the riot.


The bill provides drivers with civil protections....i.e. prevents them from having to pay out needlessly for no reason. That's just as important as the legal protections that seem to be driving most of the discussion here.

If you, casinterest, happen to make a wrong turn while driving home from dinner one night and find yourself surrounded by people trying to smash your windows, you should be able to flee that scene without having to worry about having to shell out thousands for an attorney to defend you against a frivolous lawsuit.



Show me a successful lawsuit like this. This is all drivel by dishonorable racists that want to be more like China in quieting protests. Everyone who is reasonably attacked has a right to flee the scene with care.


A lawsuit doesn't have to be successful to cost you money. Defense attorneys don't work for free.
 
TSS
Posts: 3738
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:52 pm

Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:49 pm

seb146 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Conversely, there are those who intentionally drive to where protests are happening and run people down and make excuses. "I didn't know there was a protest" or "I had the light" or some BS excuse.

Like N583JB said, the key word is "unintentionally". It's pretty obvious the difference. In my concealed carry class, it was brought up. The answer is if you're surrounded by people with bats, etc., hitting on your car, you give a couple of blasts on the horn and start driving away. Not speeding, but a constant 5mph or so. You're giving people time to get out of the way. If they don't, it's on them. They were constituting a threat to your life. Once your windows are broken, one more swing and you could be seriously hurt or killed. Don't let it come to that. I don't care whether it's Proud Boys, Antifa, BLM, Klan, or anyone else. My wife and I's lives are too important to be ruined by a bunch of a-holes. I don't have time for idiots on either fringe of the spectrum.


So it is just more solutions in search of a problem. More Republicans creating bigger government. We all know who this bill is meant to cover. Let's just say it: they want the right to run down anyone who protests against Republicans, MAGA, and racists.


If ONLY there were places set aside in cities for people on foot where cars, trucks, and buses weren't allowed to go! Perhaps such places could be paved so they won't get muddy when it rains. Maybe cities could even set aside some larger spots to be a combination of both paved and green areas where cars, trucks, and buses aren't allowed which would be able to host larger gatherings? If cities would ONLY make these simple accommodations to pedestrian traffic and, of course, the occasional "peaceful protest", then there wouldn't be violent clashes between drivers in their vehicles and "peaceful protesters".

Sarcasm aside, here's the way it is: Protest whatever you want as much as you want but keep it out of the streets and on the sidewalks or in the parks. If you block traffic then all you've done is create negative sentiment towards your cause, no matter how "just" you feel said cause is. If you surround a vehicle on a public street solely designated for the use of vehicles and refuse to yield right-of-way that is an act of, at the very least, targeted intimidation which is guaranteed to trigger a "fight or flight" response in most people so you can't reasonably act astonished when the occasional driver panics, chooses "flight", and a "peaceful protester", who had neither business nor right to block the street let alone actively participate in targeted intimidation, gets hurt.

Play stupid games ("Hey, let's block the street and surround this car, they won't run over us!"), win stupid prizes ("OH MY GOD!!! I CAN'T BELIEVE WHEN WE SURROUNDED THEIR CAR AND REFUSED TO MOVE THEY RAN OVER US TO GET AWAY!!!).
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
bennett123
Posts: 10730
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:51 pm

So where are protects allowed under your scheme.
 
johns624
Posts: 3481
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:59 pm

bennett123 wrote:
So where are protects allowed under your scheme.

He stated it--in the paved pedestrian-only park areas.
Face it, the minute that protestors start breaking windows, hitting and surrounding cars of passersby, it is no longer a protest, it's a riot.
 
FGITD
Posts: 1491
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:04 pm

Be good Little protestors and be sure to stay on the sidewalks or parks. I get that you’re protesting civil injustice, but if you could do so without inconveniencing anyone or making too much noise, that would be great.

Oh and if you step out of line I’ll kill you with my car.

Ah the land of the Free
 
bennett123
Posts: 10730
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:08 pm

Are protests allowed in all parks?.

Just as well there were no cars available on January 6th.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13113
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:15 pm

N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:

The bill provides drivers with civil protections....i.e. prevents them from having to pay out needlessly for no reason. That's just as important as the legal protections that seem to be driving most of the discussion here.

If you, casinterest, happen to make a wrong turn while driving home from dinner one night and find yourself surrounded by people trying to smash your windows, you should be able to flee that scene without having to worry about having to shell out thousands for an attorney to defend you against a frivolous lawsuit.



Show me a successful lawsuit like this. This is all drivel by dishonorable racists that want to be more like China in quieting protests. Everyone who is reasonably attacked has a right to flee the scene with care.


A lawsuit doesn't have to be successful to cost you money. Defense attorneys don't work for free.



How does this law fix it? If someone is injured and they weren't a part of the "riot", that person still has to pay the fee.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14215
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:27 pm

seb146 wrote:
Another Republican "solution" in search of a problem. I am still wondering if this applies to MAGA protesters blocking traffic? No, probably not....


Typical response.


I would rather see police get more proactive when these riots break out. Shut down the area the second it starts to get agitated and out of control so drivers are not involved. Any time these so called "protesters" start getting violent motor vehicles should not be anywhere near them.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
johns624
Posts: 3481
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:27 pm

FGITD wrote:
Be good Little protestors and be sure to stay on the sidewalks or parks. I get that you’re protesting civil injustice, but if you could do so without inconveniencing anyone or making too much noise, that would be great.

Oh and if you step out of line I’ll kill you with my car.

Ah the land of the Free
I bet you'd feel different if it was your car with you in it...
 
N583JB
Posts: 1084
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:33 pm

casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:


Show me a successful lawsuit like this. This is all drivel by dishonorable racists that want to be more like China in quieting protests. Everyone who is reasonably attacked has a right to flee the scene with care.


A lawsuit doesn't have to be successful to cost you money. Defense attorneys don't work for free.



How does this law fix it? If someone is injured and they weren't a part of the "riot", that person still has to pay the fee.


It provides civil immunity to drivers who strike rioters while fleeing the scene. So Joe the rioter can't sue you because he broke his leg bouncing off your bumper while standing in front of your car while his buddies smashed your windows out.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13113
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:23 pm

N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:

A lawsuit doesn't have to be successful to cost you money. Defense attorneys don't work for free.



How does this law fix it? If someone is injured and they weren't a part of the "riot", that person still has to pay the fee.


It provides civil immunity to drivers who strike rioters while fleeing the scene. So Joe the rioter can't sue you because he broke his leg bouncing off your bumper while standing in front of your car while his buddies smashed your windows out.


The issue is that the driver has to prove unintentional. And most judges will have a high bar for unintentional in civil court. This new law with it's "
riot declared" rule will create legal nightmares for decades in Oklahoma.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1779
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:27 pm

Meanwhile in Kentucky, a proposed law to make it illegal to taunt police (Currently these verbal taunts are protected by the 1st amendment in the U.S. - verbally threatening an officer will still get you arrested anywhere as it stands today):

Kentucky Senate passes bill making it crime to taunt a police officer. It was proposed in wake of Breonna Taylor protests (Source: CBS News)
 
FGITD
Posts: 1491
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:02 pm

Why don’t we skip ahead a few chapters and make it illegal to speak ill of the party?

Maybe we could put dissidents in GOP re-education camps?

And to think these idiots thought a minimum wage increase would be the downfall of the country.
 
Kent350787
Posts: 1834
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:06 pm

I've read this whole thread and I'm still not clear on why Oklahoma has this massive problem with protests and innocent people accidentally running protests down to the extent that it needs to make specific laws to deal with it?

Have I missed reporting of this epidemic of MVA in Oklahoma?
S340/J31/146-300/F27/F50/Nord 262/Q100/200/E195/733/734/738/744/762/763/77W/788/789/320/321/332/333/345/359
 
TSS
Posts: 3738
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:52 pm

Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:26 pm

FGITD wrote:
Be good Little protestors and be sure to stay on the sidewalks or parks.


Exactly.

FGITD wrote:
I get that you’re protesting civil injustice, but if you could do so without inconveniencing anyone or making too much noise, that would be great.


Yes, although I made no mention of noise because noise is pretty much a given during any protest and is to be expected. Requiring protesters to keep the noise down during the hours when most people sleep, say 10:00 pm until 8:00 am as an example, is also not unreasonable.

FGITD wrote:
Oh and if you step out of line I’ll kill you with my car.


Two rules that were stressed when those of us of older generations were being brought up was "Don't play in the street because you might get hit by a car", and in situations where people are playing in the street anyway "Watch out for cars and when you see one coming, get out of the way and let the car pass by"- both simple rules that even the youngest child can understand. If you chose to ignore the first and in particular the second of those two rules and got hit by a car, then that was no-one's fault but your own. Sadly, these and numerous other common-sense rules relating to accepting personal responsibility for one's own well-being seem not to have been taught to younger generations.

FGITD wrote:
Ah the land of the Free


The Land of the Free, yes, not the land of anarchy.

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Another Republican "solution" in search of a problem. I am still wondering if this applies to MAGA protesters blocking traffic? No, probably not....


Typical response.

I would rather see police get more proactive when these riots break out. Shut down the area the second it starts to get agitated and out of control so drivers are not involved. Any time these so called "protesters" start getting violent motor vehicles should not be anywhere near them.


I would suggest that as soon as there is property damage or physical assault involved, the "peaceful protest" has officially become a riot and therefore a threat to the safety of the general public and should be dealt with accordingly. A genuine "peaceful protest" is by definition peaceful, i.e. involving neither violence of any kind nor threats of same.
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johns624
Posts: 3481
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Re: Oklahoma House passes bill to protect drivers who hit protesters

Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:55 pm

TSS wrote:

I would rather see police get more proactive when these riots break out. Shut down the area the second it starts to get agitated and out of control so drivers are not involved. Any time these so called "protesters" start getting violent motor vehicles should not be anywhere near them.


Detroit's not perfect, but that's the way they handled disturbances last summer. When it was light out and things were peaceful, they let them march and chant. When it got dark and the agitators started getting stupid, they shut things down quick. Chief Craig is a well liked chief. He expects good behavior from the troops but will back his cops to the hilt if they do things the right way. Twice during the summer, officers had to shoot black youths, at least one of which was shooting at officers. He immediately released bodycam footage of the shootings, and except for the usual idiots, everyone saw that they were good shoots.

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