casinterest wrote:

I am going to go with serious

Well so far, since I had my vaccination, Gates and Soros have made me stay at home apart from food shopping.

Dutchy wrote:

I think the proportion of not taking the vaccine is quite shocking. We need herd immunity. And that is only possible if anyone, except some people who can't take it for health reasons and some persons with extreme religious beliefs. More than 90% need to take the vaccine for society at large and to protect the ones who can't.

Given vaccines work, you only need to point to measles, smallpox, polio, etc. some diseases are eradicated because of vaccines. So no good reason to not take the vaccine if you are a healthy person. If not for yourself, do it for your fellow human.

Well given the political climate this has all taken it doesn't surprise me that a lot of people are not taking the vaccines. The Republicans underestimated this virus and the Democrats are overplaying it. As always the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I was in line for my vaccine and almost bailed out to be honest. There are a few people that have died after receiving these vaccines and it has not been widely reported. But I stayed in line and got my vaccine and will get my second on Wednesday .I have to tell you I am far from an anti vaxxer. If you look at any drug commercial there are side effects with everything you may or may not experience them. I usually get all the vaccinations I need too. But there are some unknowns with these vaccines how long the protection lasts is one of them. If I was healthy I would have waited myself until more evidence was available. But I have a lot of co morbidity I know COVID will go bad for me if I get it so I made a decision like most everyone else does what is the risk/benefit to me. In my case the risk of COVID is far worse than the vaccine IMHO but I have friends of mine who think I am crazy for getting it and others who applaud me for getting it. it's a personal decision but I don't think it should be forced on anyone.

stratosphere wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

I think the proportion of not taking the vaccine is quite shocking. We need herd immunity. And that is only possible if anyone, except some people who can't take it for health reasons and some persons with extreme religious beliefs. More than 90% need to take the vaccine for society at large and to protect the ones who can't.

Given vaccines work, you only need to point to measles, smallpox, polio, etc. some diseases are eradicated because of vaccines. So no good reason to not take the vaccine if you are a healthy person. If not for yourself, do it for your fellow human.

Well given the political climate this has all taken it doesn't surprise me that a lot of people are not taking the vaccines. The Republicans underestimated this virus and the Democrats are overplaying it. As always the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I was in line for my vaccine and almost bailed out to be honest. There are a few people that have died after receiving these vaccines and it has not been widely reported. But I stayed in line and got my vaccine and will get my second on Wednesday .I have to tell you I am far from an anti vaxxer. If you look at any drug commercial there are side effects with everything you may or may not experience them. I usually get all the vaccinations I need too. But there are some unknowns with these vaccines how long the protection lasts is one of them. If I was healthy I would have waited myself until more evidence was available. But I have a lot of co morbidity I know COVID will go bad for me if I get it so I made a decision like most everyone else does what is the risk/benefit to me. In my case the risk of COVID is far worse than the vaccine IMHO but I have friends of mine who think I am crazy for getting it and others who applaud me for getting it. it's a personal decision but I don't think it should be forced on anyone.

We have our disagreements, but I applaud you for trusting the science and making a good decision for yourself and community. Hope it all works out - the comorbidities are not a fun concern to have.

AirWorthy99 wrote:

Wonderful take, it seems only GOP men have this issue? lets take a look around and see:

Black Americans’ Distrust of the COVID-19 Vaccine
A nationwide Kaiser Family Foundation survey1 found that in December of 2020, 35% of Black Americans stated they definitely or probably would not get the vaccine. This was a significantly higher percentage of reluctance compared to all other ethnic counterparts surveyed. The revelation of this study, in a similar vein to the rest of 2020, reflects a much deeper problem within our society. Many Black Americans distrust the American medical system.

https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/b ... id-vaccine

Many Latinos Are Hesitant To Get A COVID-19 Vaccine
A new Kaiser Family Foundation poll finds that a general willingness to get vaccinated against COVID-19 has gone up since December. But there's still hesitancy, most notably among Blacks and Latinos. Garcia is not alone in being skeptical. The survey finds that more than half of Latino adults are in no rush to get vaccinated.

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/01/96290523 ... 19-vaccine

Lets allow nuance take care of the narrative here. The people who have politicized COVID since the start, will blame the other side, even if they are in charge of all branches of government.

If GOP voters don't want to take the vaccine, perhaps is the same reason Blacks and Hispanics won't too, its distrust on government and 'experts'.

BTW, I will take the vaccine, and I am a Conservative and a Republican, I trust these companies have done their job with the vaccine.

Can you blame these folks. Count me in on the skeptical crowd.

1. Old enough to remember the Swine Flu vaccine debacle.
2. Vaccines came on the scene fast.
3. Big pharma is immune to any mal practice, litigation if things go south.
4. Tuskegee Experiments
5. The Nazis barbaric experiments on prisoners in the Concentration Camps/I'm in a minority group
6. Covid keeps mutating different strains some worse.
7. Now, there's talk of Booster shots and length of protection is in question.
8. Side effects. Lets just say the media glosses over them. IMO
9. Other vaccines have mercury and other questionable components.
10. Rumor has it Bill Gates has a lot of skin in the game, wants to vaccinate everyone.
11. Religious issues for some regarding being chipped along with vaccinated.

Governments and business would be smart to keep these vaccines voluntary. Though a lot of us are hesitant the majority of people want to be at the front of the line to get shot up (vaccinated). Making them compulsory creates a bigger red flag.

[quote="zippyjet"][/quote]

This post is either my favourite troll or the scariest thing I have read regarding vaccines depending on if you are serious or not.

meecrob wrote:

zippyjet wrote:

This post is either my favourite troll or the scariest thing I have read regarding vaccines depending on if you are serious or not.

I'm 100% serious. Not all the reasons are my personal opinions but... I consider myself to be in the center of most issues. I guess part of the silent, frustrated majority. And this major subgroup cuts across all racial, ethnic, religious and political beliefs. I must admit, I read a lot of crime and other fiction and I have a runaway imagination but, I'm going with my intuition regarding this issue...vaccines for Covid.

zippyjet wrote:

meecrob wrote:

zippyjet wrote:

This post is either my favourite troll or the scariest thing I have read regarding vaccines depending on if you are serious or not.

I'm 100% serious. Not all the reasons are my personal opinions but... I consider myself to be in the center of most issues. I guess part of the silent, frustrated majority. And this major subgroup cuts across all racial, ethnic, religious and political beliefs. I must admit, I read a lot of crime and other fiction and I have a runaway imagination but, I'm going with my intuition regarding this issue...vaccines for Covid.

An imagination and distrust of large corporate entities' honesty is one thing, believing a couple billionaires got 5G chips implanted in mRNA material in a vaccine is quite another.

Regarding billionaires, 5G and chipping: I'm just sharing. Who knows. I personally would be much more likely to take the one shot Johnson and Johnson vaccine. My ENT feels the J@J vaccine could prove more effective with the many Covid variants.

zippyjet wrote:

Regarding billionaires, 5G and chipping: I'm just sharing. Who knows. I personally would be much more likely to take the one shot Johnson and Johnson vaccine. My ENT feels the J@J vaccine could prove more effective with the many Covid variants.

Who knows? Engineers, that's who. Nanochips cannot be controlled via a 5G network - they don't work outside of carefully controlled clinical conditions and require an applied energy source. Also introducing them to the vaccine would fuck up the delicate molecular structures that comprise the mRNA material. There's also no point to do so for tracking purposes since every individual can be easily geotagged by their mobile phone. It's just absurd on so many levels.

I don't want the "Experimental" vaccine, even if every President and their first Lady took the vaccine. There's no sports star or TV or Movie Star or Music star taking the vaccine that would change my mind. Here, take my vaccine slot. You're Welcome!!

DIRECTFLT wrote:

I don't want the "Experimental" vaccine, even if every President and their first Lady took the vaccine. There's no sports star or TV or Movie Star or Music star taking the vaccine that would change my mind. Here, take my vaccine slot. You're Welcome!!

Do you eat processed food? You don't know what's in that either.

stratosphere wrote:

I was in line for my vaccine and almost bailed out to be honest.

Good for you, you are protected and you have protected the community

stratosphere wrote:

There are a few people that have died after receiving these vaccines and it has not been widely reported.

correlation and causality? I do not know what cases you are referring to. What I do know that LAREB, side effects center Lareb is the Dutch reporting and knowledge center for side effects of medicines, including vaccines, and use of medicines during pregnancy and breastfeeding. Lareb identifies risks of the use of medicines in daily practice and generates and disseminates knowledge about this, is on top of this and EMA - European Medicines Agency - as well. Wheater side effects are reported in the press or not, is quite irrelevant. Most important is what these experts think. You and I, as an individual, do not have the expertise to make your own judgment, at least I do not have the expertise.

stratosphere wrote:

If you look at any drug commercial there are side effects with everything you may or may not experience them.

Of course, there are side effects. The human body is a complex system. If you tweak one thing, the desired effect of the medicine, it could affect other parts as well. Vaccines are quite different, they are designed to boost the immune system. That could also do some other things, of course, but mostly mild.

stratosphere wrote:

I usually get all the vaccinations I need too. But there are some unknowns with these vaccines how long the protection lasts is one of them.

What is different this time? Seriously. With all vaccinations there are unknowns. This vaccine is no different. The working mechanism is well known, for all of them.

stratosphere wrote:

If I was healthy I would have waited myself until more evidence was available.

Again, with all do respect, you do not have the expertise to make that call yourself.

stratosphere wrote:

it's a personal decision but I don't think it should be forced on anyone.

Of course, it should be a personal decision. As with all decisions, there are consequences and in this case for one's own person - risk of getting COVID or have a much more aggressive COVID-illness - and for the community at large, more hosts means more changes to mutate.

zippyjet wrote:

AirWorthy99 wrote:

Wonderful take, it seems only GOP men have this issue? lets take a look around and see:

Black Americans’ Distrust of the COVID-19 Vaccine
A nationwide Kaiser Family Foundation survey1 found that in December of 2020, 35% of Black Americans stated they definitely or probably would not get the vaccine. This was a significantly higher percentage of reluctance compared to all other ethnic counterparts surveyed. The revelation of this study, in a similar vein to the rest of 2020, reflects a much deeper problem within our society. Many Black Americans distrust the American medical system.

https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/b ... id-vaccine

Many Latinos Are Hesitant To Get A COVID-19 Vaccine
A new Kaiser Family Foundation poll finds that a general willingness to get vaccinated against COVID-19 has gone up since December. But there's still hesitancy, most notably among Blacks and Latinos. Garcia is not alone in being skeptical. The survey finds that more than half of Latino adults are in no rush to get vaccinated.

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/01/96290523 ... 19-vaccine

Lets allow nuance take care of the narrative here. The people who have politicized COVID since the start, will blame the other side, even if they are in charge of all branches of government.

If GOP voters don't want to take the vaccine, perhaps is the same reason Blacks and Hispanics won't too, its distrust on government and 'experts'.

BTW, I will take the vaccine, and I am a Conservative and a Republican, I trust these companies have done their job with the vaccine.

Can you blame these folks. Count me in on the skeptical crowd.

1. Old enough to remember the Swine Flu vaccine debacle.
   
   

And? I also remember it, it wasn’t that long ago.

zippyjet wrote:

Vaccines came on the scene fast.

Is speed an inherent issue (is wager it’s rather a benefit) or are you insinuating something else because of the speed of availability?

zippyjet wrote:

Big pharma is immune to any mal practice, litigation if things go south.

Of course they are, in any project you weigh up cost, time and quality in this instance the risks to time have an inherent quality disadvantage and so the corporate risk reduction machine has been short circuited by governments who are accountable for all outcomes not only for those of patients who are administered the drugs.

zippyjet wrote:

Tuskegee Experiments

The Nazis barbaric experiments on prisoners in the Concentration Camps/I'm in a minority group

Are you likening people getting the vaccine to subjects of unethical medical experiments? Can you tell me what the reduction in testing for this vaccine is compared to another vaccine?

zippyjet wrote:

Covid keeps mutating different strains some worse.

All the more reason to stop the spread of the virus, the more virus in circulation the more opportunities to mutate.

zippyjet wrote:

Now, there's talk of Booster shots and length of protection is in question.

It’s pretty much always been an unknown, people who are int he crowd of not having something brocade it’s not perfect are strange to me, if you don’t have the palace of Versailles I can assume you don’t own a property right?

zippyjet wrote:

Side effects. Lets just say the media glosses over them. IMO

I doubt that very much, here in the UK the media are very much not glossing over the potential side effect of blood clotting even though it appears to be so low risk that it’s likely not a factor. Tell me about the significant side effects that you think the media are glossing over. Did they forget to tell you about the pawly bwoosed arm?

zippyjet wrote:

Other vaccines have mercury and other questionable components.

Carrots have mucury in them too. What has that got to do with these vaccines?

zippyjet wrote:

Rumor has it Bill Gates has a lot of skin in the game, wants to vaccinate everyone.

Was that because they are bad people who want to control the world or because the lizards forced them to do it?

zippyjet wrote:

Religious issues for some regarding being chipped along with vaccinated.

An adults belief in fairy tales does nothing to improve their standing on opinions of what evidence based science has to say.

zippyjet wrote:

Governments and business would be smart to keep these vaccines voluntary.

Absolutely, I don’t hunk anyone should be forced to have things in their bodies that they don’t want.

zippyjet wrote:

Though a lot of us are hesitant the majority of people want to be at the front of the line to get shot up (vaccinated). Making them compulsory creates a bigger red flag.

I think there is some good evidence out there that uptake is actually higher when it isn’t enforced.

There are some debates among senior leaders in companies here in the uk with the government as to what level of vaccination can be enforced on their workforce. Whilst they think it is against employment law to enforce vaccines of those already employed it may be allowed to be a condition of new employees that they are vaccinated.

Fred
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My forehead is sore from banging it against the wall.

Some of the comments here....

scbriml wrote:

My forehead is sore from banging it against the wall.

Some of the comments here....

Distribute the load
There are three more sides to your head. )

.. but I understand your desperation.

I've always found a way to surpass a gulf in understanding.
Rephrase your point until it makes click on the other side.
requires that parties involved are of good will.

This falls on its face if you come across people that have no interest in understanding.
Usually that is is because these persons have an agenda incompatible with the task set
and are underhanded in their behavior.

scbriml wrote:

My forehead is sore from banging it against the wall.

Some of the comments here....

'Murican Freedumb, thing is, also not considering the implications of not taking a vaccine without good medical reasons, if you want to keep your job (unless you can or were working from home before), access to major events like sports not to mention travel.
As measures like that are likely going forward.
I would mention safety of those who cannot take it for health reasons and therefore more at risk from those who just choose not to, however the ignorance of the latter is matched only by their crass selfishness.

Why Republican Men Are TERRIFIED Of Vaccines : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtfrt63JWO8

Aaron747 wrote:

Do you eat processed food? You don't know what's in that either.

Shhhh. Don’t wake him up. He’s still in shock that the election didn’t come out according to THE PLAN.

I don’t see why anyone thinks Trump telling people to take it will work. I wouldn’t take this vaccine no matter who told me to. Anyone who was influenced by Trump or Biden or Obama publicly getting it is obviously a pretty stupid person anyway

LNCS0930 wrote:

I don’t see why anyone thinks Trump telling people to take it will work. I wouldn’t take this vaccine no matter who told me to. Anyone who was influenced by Trump or Biden or Obama publicly getting it is obviously a pretty stupid person anyway

Agree, but we should remember 50% of people are below average.

There are going to be a lot of overweight guys going "It's a DNC hoax! (gasp)" during their last moments, as they die on the gurney.

flipdewaf wrote:

An adults belief in fairy tales does nothing to improve their standing on opinions of what evidence based science has to say.

indeed and lol

flipdewaf wrote:

If you cannot have the vaccine for medical reasons, if someone approaches you who hasn’t taken the vaccine can you shoot them without recourse due to protecting from imminent danger and stand your ground rules? Asking for a friend.

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hey you ‘felt threatened’ sounds reasonable to me

LNCS0930 wrote:

I wouldn’t take this vaccine no matter who told me to.

Why? And which vaccine are you talking about?

BBIBP-CorV?
Spoetnik V COVID-19 vaccin?
Pfizer–BioNTech COVID-19 vaccin?
Moderna COVID-19 vaccin?
AZD1222?
EpiVacCorona?
CoronaVac?
Ad5-nCoV?
BBV152?

Or all of them? Are you principally against vaccination?

What some don't realize is that part of the reason that the vaccines could be developed and tested so quickly is that there was lots of money and the government behind it. Any time a new drug/vaccine is developed, those costs compete with all the other promising projects that the drug company has in the queue. With the urgency of the epidemic, private and government money was thrown at it and the approval authorities didn't let the applications sit around. This is what can happen when it's in the peoples' best interests and private corporations and the government(s) can work together.

By this Fall almost the only people hospitalized for COVID-19 will be those who refused the vaccine. Not only am I in the 51% who would take the vaccine, I am in the Moderna vaccine trial. I got vaccinated in August and September.

Trump already encouraged his supporters to get the vaccine. I'm sure most Republicans already know Trump is for the vaccine, but it doesn't make a difference to those that voted for him but also refuse vaccine at this point.

Likely a segment that refuse the covid vaccine because they think it is pointless if they still have to wear a mask in public. They are most likely supportive of Rand Paul and his ridiculous arguments. For this group, it's more an issue with wearing a mask than vaccine.

Then, there are some that are anti-vaccines or so skeptical of the covid vaccine but say they are not anti-vax, but are pretty much so being so skeptical of it, likely because of side effects, how it works or other reasons. I have family members in this group, and they vote Democrat. But they follow holistic/functional doctors (who likely vote Republican) but like to share information of their skepticism of the vaccine with refuted conspiracy theories. Some of those doctors follow Robert Kennedy Jr.

I remember watching a show called "Your Health" with Dr. Richard and Cindy Becker on a local station in my area that used to be FamilyNet. Mostly, they encouraged healthy eating and they plugged a lot of supplements during commercial braeks. However, the host would say things like "the mainstream media won't tell you this..." I found it eerily similar to the Trump message. It is a bit more nuanced than Trump and Republicans but is very anti mainstream media. Another cross between left and right is PBS. Left leaning PBS right now is airing Dr. Josh Axe programs on their stations, as he is promoting his new book. "Doctors" like him won't come out saying not to get the vaccine- but if you read his books, you get the sense that he is most likely to be in that group. Pro supplements like Vitamin D and healthy living over covid vaccines.

Interesting paradox. Ask who’s responsible for the vaccine, and very often you’ll hear that it was Trump and his warp speed plan. Ask if they want the vaccine, and now it’s a Gates-Soros liberal mind control chip or just an untested, “too fast” vaccine

Praise the man for developing the vaccine quickly while denouncing the vaccine for being developed so quickly.

phluser wrote:

Trump already encouraged his supporters to get the vaccine. I'm sure most Republicans already know Trump is for the vaccine, but it doesn't make a difference to those that voted for him but also refuse vaccine at this point.

Likely a segment that refuse the covid vaccine because they think it is pointless if they still have to wear a mask in public. They are most likely supportive of Rand Paul and his ridiculous arguments. For this group, it's more an issue with wearing a mask than vaccine.

Then, there are some that are anti-vaccines or so skeptical of the covid vaccine but say they are not anti-vax, but are pretty much so being so skeptical of it, likely because of side effects, how it works or other reasons. I have family members in this group, and they vote Democrat. But they follow holistic/functional doctors (who likely vote Republican) but like to share information of their skepticism of the vaccine with refuted conspiracy theories. Some of those doctors follow Robert Kennedy Jr.

I remember watching a show called "Your Health" with Dr. Richard and Cindy Becker on a local station in my area that used to be FamilyNet. Mostly, they encouraged healthy eating and they plugged a lot of supplements during commercial braeks. However, the host would say things like "the mainstream media won't tell you this..." I found it eerily similar to the Trump message. It is a bit more nuanced than Trump and Republicans but is very anti mainstream media. Another cross between left and right is PBS. Left leaning PBS right now is airing Dr. Josh Axe programs on their stations, as he is promoting his new book. "Doctors" like him won't come out saying not to get the vaccine- but if you read his books, you get the sense that he is most likely to be in that group. Pro supplements like Vitamin D and healthy living over covid vaccines.

There have always been snake oil salesman selling cures. The vaccines work.

The media is trying to divert attention from inner city, at rusk high density, refusing the vaccine.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... cal-racism
For months, journalists, politicians and health officials - from New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo to Dr. Anthony Fauci - have invoked the infamous Tuskegee syphilis study to explain why Black Americans are more hesitant than white Americans to get the coronavirus vaccine.

...

Toler says the Black people she knows who don't want the vaccine have very modern reasons for not wanting it. They talk about religious beliefs, safety concerns or distrust for former U.S. president Donald Trump and his contentious relationship to science. Only a handful mention Tuskegee, she says, and when they do, they're fuzzy on the details of what happened during the 40-year study.

Now that article talks out if both sides of the mouth. There us a shortage of vaccine, yes, we can agree.
But also a huge hesitant group.

Ironic they won't take vaccines because they were developed under trump.

We need to encourage vaccines, but first we need supply!

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

phluser wrote:

Trump already encouraged his supporters to get the vaccine. I'm sure most Republicans already know Trump is for the vaccine, but it doesn't make a difference to those that voted for him but also refuse vaccine at this point.

Likely a segment that refuse the covid vaccine because they think it is pointless if they still have to wear a mask in public. They are most likely supportive of Rand Paul and his ridiculous arguments. For this group, it's more an issue with wearing a mask than vaccine.

Then, there are some that are anti-vaccines or so skeptical of the covid vaccine but say they are not anti-vax, but are pretty much so being so skeptical of it, likely because of side effects, how it works or other reasons. I have family members in this group, and they vote Democrat. But they follow holistic/functional doctors (who likely vote Republican) but like to share information of their skepticism of the vaccine with refuted conspiracy theories. Some of those doctors follow Robert Kennedy Jr.

I remember watching a show called "Your Health" with Dr. Richard and Cindy Becker on a local station in my area that used to be FamilyNet. Mostly, they encouraged healthy eating and they plugged a lot of supplements during commercial braeks. However, the host would say things like "the mainstream media won't tell you this..." I found it eerily similar to the Trump message. It is a bit more nuanced than Trump and Republicans but is very anti mainstream media. Another cross between left and right is PBS. Left leaning PBS right now is airing Dr. Josh Axe programs on their stations, as he is promoting his new book. "Doctors" like him won't come out saying not to get the vaccine- but if you read his books, you get the sense that he is most likely to be in that group. Pro supplements like Vitamin D and healthy living over covid vaccines.

There have always been snake oil salesman selling cures. The vaccines work.

The media is trying to divert attention from inner city, at rusk high density, refusing the vaccine.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... cal-racism
For months, journalists, politicians and health officials - from New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo to Dr. Anthony Fauci - have invoked the infamous Tuskegee syphilis study to explain why Black Americans are more hesitant than white Americans to get the coronavirus vaccine.

...

Toler says the Black people she knows who don't want the vaccine have very modern reasons for not wanting it. They talk about religious beliefs, safety concerns or distrust for former U.S. president Donald Trump and his contentious relationship to science. Only a handful mention Tuskegee, she says, and when they do, they're fuzzy on the details of what happened during the 40-year study.

Now that article talks out if both sides of the mouth. There us a shortage of vaccine, yes, we can agree.
But also a huge hesitant group.

Ironic they won't take vaccines because they were developed under trump.

We need to encourage vaccines, but first we need supply!

Lightsaber

High density = at risk ?

"I doubt that very much, here in the UK the media are very much not glossing over the potential side effect of blood clotting even though it appears to be so low risk that it’s likely not a factor. Tell me about the significant side effects that you think the media are glossing over. Did they forget to tell you about the pawly bwoosed arm?" I very much appreciate this. Here in the states IMO they are glossing/minimizing.

c933103 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

phluser wrote:

Trump already encouraged his supporters to get the vaccine. I'm sure most Republicans already know Trump is for the vaccine, but it doesn't make a difference to those that voted for him but also refuse vaccine at this point.

Likely a segment that refuse the covid vaccine because they think it is pointless if they still have to wear a mask in public. They are most likely supportive of Rand Paul and his ridiculous arguments. For this group, it's more an issue with wearing a mask than vaccine.

Then, there are some that are anti-vaccines or so skeptical of the covid vaccine but say they are not anti-vax, but are pretty much so being so skeptical of it, likely because of side effects, how it works or other reasons. I have family members in this group, and they vote Democrat. But they follow holistic/functional doctors (who likely vote Republican) but like to share information of their skepticism of the vaccine with refuted conspiracy theories. Some of those doctors follow Robert Kennedy Jr.

I remember watching a show called "Your Health" with Dr. Richard and Cindy Becker on a local station in my area that used to be FamilyNet. Mostly, they encouraged healthy eating and they plugged a lot of supplements during commercial braeks. However, the host would say things like "the mainstream media won't tell you this..." I found it eerily similar to the Trump message. It is a bit more nuanced than Trump and Republicans but is very anti mainstream media. Another cross between left and right is PBS. Left leaning PBS right now is airing Dr. Josh Axe programs on their stations, as he is promoting his new book. "Doctors" like him won't come out saying not to get the vaccine- but if you read his books, you get the sense that he is most likely to be in that group. Pro supplements like Vitamin D and healthy living over covid vaccines.

There have always been snake oil salesman selling cures. The vaccines work.

The media is trying to divert attention from inner city, at rusk high density, refusing the vaccine.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... cal-racism
For months, journalists, politicians and health officials - from New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo to Dr. Anthony Fauci - have invoked the infamous Tuskegee syphilis study to explain why Black Americans are more hesitant than white Americans to get the coronavirus vaccine.

...

Toler says the Black people she knows who don't want the vaccine have very modern reasons for not wanting it. They talk about religious beliefs, safety concerns or distrust for former U.S. president Donald Trump and his contentious relationship to science. Only a handful mention Tuskegee, she says, and when they do, they're fuzzy on the details of what happened during the 40-year study.

Now that article talks out if both sides of the mouth. There us a shortage of vaccine, yes, we can agree.
But also a huge hesitant group.

Ironic they won't take vaccines because they were developed under trump.

We need to encourage vaccines, but first we need supply!

Lightsaber

High density = at risk ?

Yes, more contacts per week in a high density environment. If you live on a half acre of land per family, you have excercise, sunlight, and natural isolation. Low density suburbs has everyone walking the neighborhood while social distancing.

If you have six contacts per day and 3 are vaccinated, that is much less likely to have transmission than done who has 30 contacts per day with 15 vaccinated.

Speaking of GOP men, I know two this week who wouldn't have the vaccine that did; the wifey made the appointment for them. They made noise but were still jabbed. I know a few others hesitant, but I talked them into a jab.

Then I have several Democrat friends finding excuses to avoid the jab. When widely available, let us see the end results.

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

c933103 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

There have always been snake oil salesman selling cures. The vaccines work.

The media is trying to divert attention from inner city, at rusk high density, refusing the vaccine.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... cal-racism
For months, journalists, politicians and health officials - from New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo to Dr. Anthony Fauci - have invoked the infamous Tuskegee syphilis study to explain why Black Americans are more hesitant than white Americans to get the coronavirus vaccine.

...

Toler says the Black people she knows who don't want the vaccine have very modern reasons for not wanting it. They talk about religious beliefs, safety concerns or distrust for former U.S. president Donald Trump and his contentious relationship to science. Only a handful mention Tuskegee, she says, and when they do, they're fuzzy on the details of what happened during the 40-year study.

Now that article talks out if both sides of the mouth. There us a shortage of vaccine, yes, we can agree.
But also a huge hesitant group.

Ironic they won't take vaccines because they were developed under trump.

We need to encourage vaccines, but first we need supply!

Lightsaber

High density = at risk ?

Yes, more contacts per week in a high density environment. If you live on a half acre of land per family, you have excercise, sunlight, and natural isolation. Low density suburbs has everyone walking the neighborhood while social distancing.

If you have six contacts per day and 3 are vaccinated, that is much less likely to have transmission than done who has 30 contacts per day with 15 vaccinated.

Speaking of GOP men, I know two this week who wouldn't have the vaccine that did; the wifey made the appointment for them. They made noise but were still jabbed. I know a few others hesitant, but I talked them into a jab.

Then I have several Democrat friends finding excuses to avoid the jab. When widely available, let us see the end results.

Lightsaber

Problem is, do living in higher density environment mean one is more likely to contact others and thus have higher chance of getting the virus?
Like, in Hong Kong, it's pretty high density, but a number of outbreaks have been occurring in higher net worth lower density residential districts, with outbreak source usually traced to thingsvlike gathering, meals, restaurants, gyms, office, and such.
The nunber of people you see when you do any activities which involve dealing with others would not vary according to density of your home. And when you are actually inside your home, you have walls surrounding yourself and your family that how many people living beyond the wall will not affect your chance of getting the virus or not. Unless your building have poorly designed sewage system allowing aerosolized transmission in such mean. There might be more people on streets inside city, but the nukber and time of contact would be minimal compared to any contact you might make at destination one's trying to head to by walking or driving on a road.

c933103 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

c933103 wrote:

High density = at risk ?

Yes, more contacts per week in a high density environment. If you live on a half acre of land per family, you have excercise, sunlight, and natural isolation. Low density suburbs has everyone walking the neighborhood while social distancing.

If you have six contacts per day and 3 are vaccinated, that is much less likely to have transmission than done who has 30 contacts per day with 15 vaccinated.

Speaking of GOP men, I know two this week who wouldn't have the vaccine that did; the wifey made the appointment for them. They made noise but were still jabbed. I know a few others hesitant, but I talked them into a jab.

Then I have several Democrat friends finding excuses to avoid the jab. When widely available, let us see the end results.

Lightsaber

Problem is, do living in higher density environment mean one is more likely to contact others and thus have higher chance of getting the virus?
Like, in Hong Kong, it's pretty high density, but a number of outbreaks have been occurring in higher net worth lower density residential districts, with outbreak source usually traced to thingsvlike gathering, meals, restaurants, gyms, office, and such.
The nunber of people you see when you do any activities which involve dealing with others would not vary according to density of your home. And when you are actually inside your home, you have walls surrounding yourself and your family that how many people living beyond the wall will not affect your chance of getting the virus or not. Unless your building have poorly designed sewage system allowing aerosolized transmission in such mean. There might be more people on streets inside city, but the nukber and time of contact would be minimal compared to any contact you might make at destination one's trying to head to by walking or driving on a road.

I have visited homes in Japan and Korea many times but not HK or Taiwan. What kind of ventilation system is common in a post-1990 apartment building? Is there a central HVAC or do people use their windows and sliding doors for primary ventilation?

Aaron747 wrote:

c933103 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Yes, more contacts per week in a high density environment. If you live on a half acre of land per family, you have excercise, sunlight, and natural isolation. Low density suburbs has everyone walking the neighborhood while social distancing.

If you have six contacts per day and 3 are vaccinated, that is much less likely to have transmission than done who has 30 contacts per day with 15 vaccinated.

Speaking of GOP men, I know two this week who wouldn't have the vaccine that did; the wifey made the appointment for them. They made noise but were still jabbed. I know a few others hesitant, but I talked them into a jab.

Then I have several Democrat friends finding excuses to avoid the jab. When widely available, let us see the end results.

Lightsaber

Problem is, do living in higher density environment mean one is more likely to contact others and thus have higher chance of getting the virus?
Like, in Hong Kong, it's pretty high density, but a number of outbreaks have been occurring in higher net worth lower density residential districts, with outbreak source usually traced to thingsvlike gathering, meals, restaurants, gyms, office, and such.
The nunber of people you see when you do any activities which involve dealing with others would not vary according to density of your home. And when you are actually inside your home, you have walls surrounding yourself and your family that how many people living beyond the wall will not affect your chance of getting the virus or not. Unless your building have poorly designed sewage system allowing aerosolized transmission in such mean. There might be more people on streets inside city, but the nukber and time of contact would be minimal compared to any contact you might make at destination one's trying to head to by walking or driving on a road.

I have visited homes in Japan and Korea many times but not HK or Taiwan. What kind of ventilation system is common in a post-1990 apartment building? Is there a central HVAC or do people use their windows and sliding doors for primary ventilation?

In Hong Kong, centralized HVAC still isn't popular among residential buildings even in those newer ones, most apartment units would have their own air conditioners in each individual rooms. Of course there're still windows when natyral ventilation is desired.

c933103 wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

c933103 wrote:

Problem is, do living in higher density environment mean one is more likely to contact others and thus have higher chance of getting the virus?
Like, in Hong Kong, it's pretty high density, but a number of outbreaks have been occurring in higher net worth lower density residential districts, with outbreak source usually traced to thingsvlike gathering, meals, restaurants, gyms, office, and such.
The nunber of people you see when you do any activities which involve dealing with others would not vary according to density of your home. And when you are actually inside your home, you have walls surrounding yourself and your family that how many people living beyond the wall will not affect your chance of getting the virus or not. Unless your building have poorly designed sewage system allowing aerosolized transmission in such mean. There might be more people on streets inside city, but the nukber and time of contact would be minimal compared to any contact you might make at destination one's trying to head to by walking or driving on a road.

I have visited homes in Japan and Korea many times but not HK or Taiwan. What kind of ventilation system is common in a post-1990 apartment building? Is there a central HVAC or do people use their windows and sliding doors for primary ventilation?

In Hong Kong, centralized HVAC still isn't popular among residential buildings even in those newer ones, most apartment units would have their own air conditioners in each individual rooms. Of course there're still windows when natyral ventilation is desired.

That would certainly reduce risk substantially in high density residences. It was confirmed that some of the initial spread in NYC last spring was via HVAC systems.

I mean the left are a source of continuous amusement and they're no strangers to hypocrisy and double standards. But I find it particularly amusing how they denigrate one group for not wanting the vaccine but another group (BAME) are given all the sympathy and support for them not wanting to take the vaccine as it suits the left's culture war agenda as they can peddle a racist argument to the debate.

sevenair wrote:

I mean the left are a source of continuous amusement and they're no strangers to hypocrisy and double standards. But I find it particularly amusing how they denigrate one group for not wanting the vaccine but another group (BAME) are given all the sympathy and support for them not wanting to take the vaccine as it suits the left's culture war agenda as they can peddle a racist argument to the debate.

This is so far off base and reeks of muddying the waters intentionally. Education and outreach efforts for elderly in minority groups can only be a good thing if it results in more vaccines being taken. The people being denigrated elsewhere are spreading wackjob theories about 5G chips and whatever else that are demonstrably false. One of these things is not like the other. The result of taking longer to reach herd immunity is not OK either way.

I'm glad I got Moderna. It has a much higher mRNA load than Pfizer/BioNTech.

The J&J/Janssen vaccine (weakened human adenovirus viral-vector) is much less effective overall, but it does have a very high effectiveness of preventing hospitalization and mortality. People can also have developed iimmunity to the adenovirus used, probably rendering the vaccine ineffective.

AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine uses weakened chimpanzee adenovirus.

I'm excited about the upcoming Novavax (a Gaithersburg, MD biotech) vaccine, it uses nanoparticles to introduce bioengineered spike protein. Incidentally, Novavax has been the best performing covid-vaccine biotechnology stock since March 2020.

The problem with people not taking some form of vaccine is that they become possible vectors for continually mutating virus that can eventually render vaccines ineffective for everyone.

I hesitate resurrecting this thread. Why? In the last week I personally witnessed four people in the vilified group pick up the phone, "yes, dear" and then ask me seriously about vaccine safety as their wives had arranged them a vaccine appointment and all 4 already have had dose #1.

The data is interesting. Rural are very hesitant as well as essential workers. Only 59% have or will soon. For rural, there is much less risk, so that actually makes sense. Not so for essential workers... African Americans still are only at 55%.

I do not take the people who say waiting for more information seriously as that is what most seem to say when they know they won't answer "correctly" but are done with the lectures, in my opinion.

https://www.bing.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.c ... 00502.html

At work a group of young female engineers rather loudly made it clear "when everyone can get vaccinated, it will be up to the unvaccinated to take care of themselves." And since this is a fun group, they started talking about doing activities (I joined in). Two other men walked up, known anti-vac and the ladies were quite clear the activities were only for the vaccinated. (we social distanced, so the discussion circle formed was over 30 feet in diameter, a common event at my work). Both men are now trying to get vaccines... (Starbucks rule of marketing, don't push away any customers, work to attract the young ladies and everyone else will follow.) So the vaccination rate will be determined by social activities.

I'm participating in a social activity this weekend and only those vaccinated or recently recovered from Covid-19 are invited (I know a few people in this thread's title disinvited now hunting for vaccination appointments).

Lightsaber

I live in a VERY right wing MAGA area and many of those are getting vaccinated. I am on the wait list. I do have some reservations about how quickly these vaccines came out but I have heard of no negative effects. As soon as I get an appointment, I will be getting mine!

seb146 wrote:

I live in a VERY right wing MAGA area and many of those are getting vaccinated. I am on the wait list. I do have some reservations about how quickly these vaccines came out but I have heard of no negative effects. As soon as I get an appointment, I will be getting mine!

Life is all about risk vs benefit. In my case I weighed the risk and COVID was a much higher risk to me than the vaccine was so I got it. But some of my friends were going to get it then we a had a local young doctor die right after he got his second dose and they decided no way were they going to get it. Turns out the doctor tested positive for COVID but never knew he had it when he got his second shot his immune response went into overdrive and he wound up with MIS-A multisystem inflammatory syndrome in adults vs MIS-C for children. Now they are trying to say the COVID was the cause of immune storm but some doctors are saying that the vaccine could very well have played a part in lighting the fuse to that immune response. This has happened before it turns out but the media is downplaying this threat. This is where distrust of government and the media comes in. I looked at it and got an antibody test before I was vaccinated to make sure I didn't have any signs of COVID antibodies. But they need to make this risk aware to people but they don't want to scare anyone off. I say be your own advocate there are a lot of bad stories out there but this one was credible to me but I still went ahead and got it.

https://dailymemphian.com/article/19893 ... /questions

seb146 wrote:

I live in a VERY right wing MAGA area and many of those are getting vaccinated. I am on the wait list. I do have some reservations about how quickly these vaccines came out but I have heard of no negative effects. As soon as I get an appointment, I will be getting mine!

Excellent news!

I have friends on both sides (I know, weird today) and for every two MAGA saying "never" that I know, one has had or is scheduled by the wife to have the vaccine.

In fact, the GOP people I know are the ones pressuring our employer to offer on site vaccinations if supply ever meets promise (the 15 million spoiled J&J doses I discussed in the vaccine thread kills that hope):
https://www.bing.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.c ... 15327.html



Lightsaber

PS, for every MAGA I know who says never, I know more who are in line.

The vaccines were approved on a schedule that does not, in any way, meet the standards typically used to approve drugs. The standards used here were lower.

There are unknowns. Knowledge is always a moving target. People who say drug studies are done perfectly are either lying or don’t understand scientific trials on humans, which always have unexpected details, because humans don’t behave like digital programs. And there are good evolutionary reasons why patients do not follow instructions. Why nurses lie. Why epidemiologists release the wrong data. Etc.

It is still a good gamble.

You guys won't believe how much roll my eyes has done in the last 5 seconds after I read this.

My brother in Law used to be one of these "men", and now after laying 9 days in hospital, he changed his mind. And I said, "Uhmm, hun, it's a bit too late now"

Per my understanding, much of the accelerated timing on the vaccine had to do with plenty of money, ease of signing up volunteers for clinical trials due to the nature of the situation, and other concurrent activities - vaccine production started "at risk" well before approval was given, very rapid priority reviews at FDA, and approval while Phase 3 clinical trials were still ongoing. But the Phase 1/2 trials' efficacy had been well shown, and the near-term side effects were minimal and understood. It is also the case that in the entire history of vaccines, there have not been situations where any significant adverse effects have appeared after six weeks post-vaccine. So the decision for emergency use authorization (EUA) was a low risk decision given the impacts of the ongoing COVID infections.

I, for one, had my first dose and my secon is next week. I have no concerns about risk from the vaccine, and I'm quite pleased that I'm now significantly protected against COVID.

It’s a bit baffling if you ask me. Trump almost didn’t brand the vaccines with his name, always talking about operation Warp speed to get work on it done pronto, but now his supporters don’t want to take a vaccine that he largely takes credit for?

CarlosSi wrote:

It’s a bit baffling if you ask me. Trump almost didn’t brand the vaccines with his name, always talking about operation Warp speed to get work on it done pronto, but now his supporters don’t want to take a vaccine that he largely takes credit for?

I'm willing to bet that there is a statistically significant number of people out there who have no clue the work that the team assembled by the Trump administration and the pharmaceutical industry accomplished. All they'll see is the big roll out that really hit high gear in January, and attribute it to Biden. That may also explain why Trump was so very hush hush receiving the vaccine -- that and the fact that if the vaccines don't prove effective on a population basis he'll want to hang that stone around Biden's neck.

luckyone wrote:

CarlosSi wrote:

It’s a bit baffling if you ask me. Trump almost didn’t brand the vaccines with his name, always talking about operation Warp speed to get work on it done pronto, but now his supporters don’t want to take a vaccine that he largely takes credit for?

I'm willing to bet that there is a statistically significant number of people out there who have no clue the work that the team assembled by the Trump administration and the pharmaceutical industry accomplished. All they'll see is the big roll out that really hit high gear in January, and attribute it to Biden. That may also explain why Trump was so very hush hush receiving the vaccine -- that and the fact that if the vaccines don't prove effective on a population basis he'll want to hang that stone around Biden's neck.

Always making everything about himself...

I wonder what the uptake in vaccinations, of that 49% would be if Donald Trump had said that he made the vaccine. Would they believe him.?

What always makes me smile is these guys who say 'I am not taking this', then the wife signs them up and it is 'Yes dear'.