Bostrom wrote:

Aesma wrote:

There are calls to bring back proportional representation in France (we had it from 1986 to 1988) but a way must be found to have a bit clearer majorities / decent minorities than what just happened in NL, 17 parties with the biggest one having 23% of the seats would never work here. We see how it's difficult in Italy, but they have had that for some time so they're used to it, here it would be a huge mess especially with the presidential election being clear cut.

You could also look at the Nordic countries or Germany, where is much less messy.

Aesma wrote:

The chairwoman of the chamber is called Khadija Arib, interesting.

Dutch PM Rutte narrowly survives no-confidence vote

Dutch caretaker Prime Minister Mark Rutte has narrowly survived a vote of no confidence over his conduct during talks to form a governing coalition.
But he remains under pressure after parliament adopted a formal motion of disapproval which noted he had not "spoken the truth" during the talks.
Mr Rutte is accused of lying about moves to sideline a troublesome MP.
"Parliament has given me a serious message and I will try my very best to win back confidence," Mr Rutte said.

The 54-year-old has been in office for more than a decade and has been dubbed "Teflon Mark" for his ability to survive scandals.
However, almost the entire house of parliament backed the disapproval motion against him. His biggest coalition partner, Sigrid Kaag of the centre-left D66 party, said it was not clear to her that he would continue in charge of forming a new government.

Mr Rutte's centre-right VVD party won the most seats in parliamentary elections just two weeks ago, and he was in talks to form a new coalition.

zkojq wrote:

I've enjoyed learning about dutch politics here.

Informer Tjeenk Willink has finished his assignment
He says that Rutte could restore confidence in him at most parties
It is up to Rutte to explain how and if he can do this shortly
A new informateur now has to get started with the corona recovery plan
According to Tjeenk Willink, an outline coalition agreement should also be considered

Due to all the vicissitudes surrounding the departure of Pieter Omtzigt from the CDA, party leader Wopke Hoekstra is mainly busy with his party these days. The formation comes in second place, although there were still talks with Gert-Jan Segers (ChristenUnie) and Lilianne Ploumen (PvdA) on the agenda on Monday.

The formation has become even more complicated if possible. Now it is not only the question of who-with-whom, we also have to wait and see what happens to the CDA, a serious coalition candidate, after Omtzigt's departure because of his leaked, highly critical note.

"After such a weekend, I first work on the game. A lot has to be done within the CDA," said Hoekstra before going to his appointment with informateur Mariëtte Hamer. He didn't seem eager for the calls, but canceling isn't an option. "If Hamer invites me, I'll come."

Hoekstra especially wanted to radiate that he is doing everything he can to keep the party together and that Omtzigt does not have to leave at all as far as he is concerned. Interim CDA chairman Marnix van Rij, CDA minister and 'extraordinary advisor' to the party board Ank Bijleveld and Hoekstra themselves say they have done everything they can to keep Omtzigt with the party.

"I would also love to see him (Omtzigt, ed.) come back. But he has made a different decision," said Hoekstra.

Omtzigt himself is at home overworked. He occasionally makes himself heard publicly and that only happens via Twitter. The CDA is asking to leave him alone so that he can recover. It is known that Omtzigt regularly contacts journalists and fellow politicians.

Omtzigt lacks ideas at the CDA

Omtzigt's note, which he wrote for the committee investigating the election defeat, is full of strong criticism of the CDA. Omtzigt himself speaks of "my sharp vision".

It states how, in his eyes, he is constantly being opposed within the party. This happened, for example, during the elections for the party leadership, which he only just lost to Hugo de Jonge. Omtzigt still questions that result.

But he mainly does this in the allowance affair, where he keeps asking for information that is provided too late or sometimes not at all by the outgoing cabinet. Omtzigt calls that "painful". At the same time, aggrieved parents are getting more and more trapped.

The disappointment is dripping. Omtzigt feels undervalued if the finance portfolio is taken from him, he is not invited to the ministerial meeting and if he does not become a party leader if De Jonge withdraws and the party board appoints Hoekstra as the new leader. That position was promised to Omtzigt, he claims. "Clearly there is a preconceived plan and I don't fit into it."

Omtzigt's biggest accusation is perhaps that, in his opinion, the CDA has no ideas and has lost its connection with civil society.

Internal problems at the party overshadow everything

Meanwhile, the formation continues. According to PvdA leader Ploumen, she had a good conversation with Hoekstra about the housing market, a ban on profit distribution in health care and about reintroducing the basic grant for students. These are all topics where PvdA and CDA can find each other. The differences have also been discussed, Ploumen said.

Normally, all the attention in the formation would be on this, but the past few weeks revolved around the question of whether CDA and VVD can and want to accept that PvdA and GroenLinks join the negotiations.

The two left-wing parties are not both needed for a majority, but they do not want to step into any coalition without each other. Hoekstra and VVD leader Mark Rutte explicitly mention the ChristenUnie to ask for it as the fourth party, but Segers has already put himself at the back of the row several times as a coalition option. Even a minority cabinet, which no one has a preference for, should be examined earlier as far as the ChristenUnie leader is concerned.

But the internal problems of the Christian Democrats currently overshadow everything. One of the questions now is how stable the CDA is, but Ploumen did not want to say anything about that after her conversation with Hoekstra and Hamer. The problems were discussed, but that only concerned the statement "that it is a difficult time for the CDA".

Hoekstra continues where he left off last weekend: talking to disappointed and worried CDA members, directors and MPs.

Aesma wrote:

Now there is also the Israeli coalition to keep us entertained.

Dutchy wrote:

GroenLinks and PVDA don't want to be in a new Kabinet without each other.

Aesma wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

GroenLinks and PVDA don't want to be in a new Kabinet without each other.

You have to laugh at that one. PR leads to smaller smaller parties with less and less difference between some of them, to the point now 2 parties are negotiating as one ?

Aesma wrote:

If you want to govern together or not at all, then you're one party, not two. I have no problem with parties merging or splitting, it's this "in-between" that's funny.

Dieuwer wrote:

I say the more parties, the more democratic.

petertenthije wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

I say the more parties, the more democratic.

To a point though.

I think it is very good that anyone can start a party and run for government.

But I think that if your party does not get enough votes for, say, five seats, that the votes should be proportionally divided over the other parties. The one- and two-seat parties that only care for one or two specific issues or demographics are a real bottleneck to effective government.

And that’s not even mentioning the folks for whom it is only a money grab, though it is less common at the national level, it does happen locally and regionally. Several wethouders have stayed in office just long enough to qualify for wachtgeld. For instance Michiel Wiersinga (3 months, Epe), Rein Dupont (2 months, Meerssen).

Dieuwer wrote:

Too many incompetent politicians in The Hague these days, if you ask me.

The cabinet formation has now progressed far enough that the negotiators of VVD, D66, CDA and ChristenUnie dared to set a goal: a coalition agreement will be reached "before the start of the upcoming recess", which starts on December 17.

The parliamentary parties of VVD, CDA, D66 and ChristenUnie agree with the coalition agreement that has been reached. Party leaders Mark Rutte (VVD), Wopke Hoekstra (CDA), Sigrid Kaag (D66) and Gert-Jan Segers (ChristenUnie) announced this on Tuesday after consultation with their groups in The Hague.