Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
ltbewr wrote:I presume you are voting in what is a Railway Museum. Is the decoration at the entry of the museum the usual or for the election or from a special event ?
ltbewr wrote:I know in the USA most election sites fly an American flag at their entry point. Most election sites in the USA are in public schools, municipal offices, firehouses, but sometimes in people garages. When I first voted in in 1972 in New Jersey, the location was the showroom of a car dealership (for then Chrysler's Plymouth brand - it later became and still is an Irish style pub-restaurant), a few years later it was moved to a school site.
ltbewr wrote:Why didn't The Netherlands consider more extensive voting by mail like done due to the Pandemic in most of the USA states?
ltbewr wrote:I doubt many will support radical attitudes toward Muslims,
ltbewr wrote:but for sure some voters will want a more restrictive view toward immigrants,
ltbewr wrote:less access to marijuana to non-residents,
ltbewr wrote:more cautious attitudes with the EU,
ltbewr wrote:end or substantially reduce the 'red light districts' but keep prostitution legal 'behind closed doors'.
Braybuddy wrote:Thanks for posting. I wasn't aware The Netherlands used the PR system. Living in Ireland I know it all too well! Sometimes it frustrates me, but I do see its positives. What are the main issues in this election? Is the government's handling of Covid an issue at all?
Dutchy wrote:Most people are behind how the government is handling Covid, sure they disagree on some points, but in general it isn't a real issue. Only the Forum voor Democracy, right populist party, is calling for a totally different policy.
Main issue's climate change/environment, housing (how to build 1millions new homes till 2030), social issues.
Braybuddy wrote:Plenty of water left to fill in. Let's get Doggerland back!That's a big ask: one million new homes by 2030! I think you'll need to start reclaiming some more land!
petertenthije wrote:Pretty much every political party has said they want to focus on housing. It's only the details on which they differ.
petertenthije wrote:Though with some parties you just know they are not serious, they only use the housing crisis to promote their own pet peeves. For instance Groen Links. They are opposed to roads and airports. Their master plan for housing is to close mayor roads and Rotterdam airport. While I could see Rotterdam airport closing under the right political conditions (unlikely though it is), their proposal of closing down a good chunk of the Amsterdam inner ring (A10 west) is a complete non-starter and everyone with half a brain knows it.
petertenthije wrote:Then you've got parties like FvD that think that the first step to sorting out the housing crisis is to ban all foreigners and leave the EU. Again, that's not a solution to the housing crisis but it does fit their own pet peeves.
Braybuddy wrote:Dutchy wrote:Most people are behind how the government is handling Covid, sure they disagree on some points, but in general it isn't a real issue. Only the Forum voor Democracy, right populist party, is calling for a totally different policy.
Main issue's climate change/environment, housing (how to build 1millions new homes till 2030), social issues.
That's a big ask: one million new homes by 2030! I think you'll need to start reclaiming some more land!
Dutchy wrote:I am going to vote, it will be on either D'66 or GroenLinks or a small chance on VOLT, have yet to decide.
Dutchy wrote:Are you going to vote, Peter? And would you disclose which party earned your vote? I am going to vote, it will be on either D'66 or GroenLinks or a small chance on VOLT, have yet to decide.
DocLightning wrote:Question: How many questions are on a Dutch ballot? Is it just a single vote for your local representative?
DocLightning wrote:Question: How many questions are on a Dutch ballot? Is it just a single vote for your local representative?
AeroVega wrote:I already voted today. My vote went to the party animals.
DocLightning wrote:AeroVega wrote:I already voted today. My vote went to the party animals.
Is that De Feestpartij that petertenthije referenced?
DocLightning wrote:AeroVega wrote:I already voted today. My vote went to the party animals.
Is that De Feestpartij that petertenthije referenced?
Dutchy wrote:For me, a small benefit from the pandemic, I will be casting my vote in style:
Mark Rutte has claimed an “overwhelming” victory in national elections in the Netherlands, vowing to use a fourth term in office to rebuild the country after the coronavirus pandemic.
Following a dull campaign fought during the pandemic and seen as a referendum on the government’s performance during the crisis, exit polls suggested the VVD had won 35 of the Dutch parliaments 150 seats, two more than in the previous election.
petertenthije wrote:Dutchy wrote:For me, a small benefit from the pandemic, I will be casting my vote in style:
My local polling station was in a church. Nothing special.
On the other side of town an art gallery was used. They had just changed their exhibition a few weeks ago. The new exhibition is called "For your eyes only", and features nude photos from the 60s and 70s. Most people, men and women alike, told the newspaper they did not mind the photos as they are merely erotic, not sexual. But obviously the photos were not to everyone's liking.
The linked article might below be NSFW if you are in a more puritan country then the Netherlands.
https://www.bd.nl/den-bosch-vught/rode- ... ~ab129c8a/
Aesma wrote:Overwhelming victory = 35 seats out of 150 ah ah.
petertenthije wrote:Aesma wrote:Overwhelming victory = 35 seats out of 150 ah ah.
You have to consider that 37 parties where running. It was never gonna be anything near 50%. Having nearly a quarter of the votes is a good result.
At the moment it looks like the VVD got 35 seats, with the runner up D66 having 24 seats. A nearly 50% difference is overwhelming. Compare that for instance to the 2012 elections where the VVD got 41 and runner up PvdA got 38 seats.
Dutchy wrote:VVD: 35 (+2)
D'66: 24 (+5)
PVV: 17 (-3)
CDA: 15 (-4)
SP: 9 (-5)
PVDA: 9 (+0)
FvD: 8 (+6)
GroenLinks: 7 (-7)
Partij vd Dieren: 6 (+1)
ChristenUnie: 5 (+0)
JA21: 4 (+4)
SGP: 3 (+0)
VOLT: 3 (+3)
DENK: 2 (-1)
50PLUS: 1 (-3)
BIJ1: 1 (+1)
BBB: 1 (+1)
Dutchy wrote:DocLightning wrote:AeroVega wrote:I already voted today. My vote went to the party animals.
Is that De Feestpartij that petertenthije referenced?
The joy of democracy: https://www.defeestpartij.nl/. Johan Vlemmix is an interesting guy, never a dull moment. Not suited for politics though.
Similar, I guess, to Joe Exotic for president or Lord Buckethead in the UK.
Arion640 wrote:Dutchy wrote:DocLightning wrote:
Is that De Feestpartij that petertenthije referenced?
The joy of democracy: https://www.defeestpartij.nl/. Johan Vlemmix is an interesting guy, never a dull moment. Not suited for politics though.
Similar, I guess, to Joe Exotic for president or Lord Buckethead in the UK.
Did you vote for Mark Rutte?
AeroVega wrote:Perhaps good to qualify for people outside of The Netherlands that these results mark quite a strong shift to the political right.
Dutchy wrote:Elections over, formation of a new government commances.Mark Rutte has claimed an “overwhelming” victory in national elections in the Netherlands, vowing to use a fourth term in office to rebuild the country after the coronavirus pandemic.
Following a dull campaign fought during the pandemic and seen as a referendum on the government’s performance during the crisis, exit polls suggested the VVD had won 35 of the Dutch parliaments 150 seats, two more than in the previous election.
Link to the Guardian article.
The preliminary results, the end results will be in today or tomorrow.
329 out of the 356 of the municipalities counted.
Out of the 150 seats in parliament;
VVD: 35 (+2)
D'66: 24 (+5)
PVV: 17 (-3)
CDA: 15 (-4)
SP: 9 (-5)
PVDA: 9 (+0)
FvD: 8 (+6)
GroenLinks: 7 (-7)
Partij vd Dieren: 6 (+1)
ChristenUnie: 5 (+0)
JA21: 4 (+4)
SGP: 3 (+0)
VOLT: 3 (+3)
DENK: 2 (-1)
50PLUS: 1 (-3)
BIJ1: 1 (+1)
BBB: 1 (+1)
Turnout is round 79,2%, down form 2017-elections: 81,7%.
If this reflects the end result, we welcome 3 new parties into parliament, 17 in all. The new coalition will be made up of 4 parties yet again. Rutte will probably remain the Prime Minister, if he manages to end this term, he will be the longest-serving Prime Minister in our history. He is one of the longest-serving heads of government in the EU, especially when Merkel resigns at the end of the year.
Aesma wrote:In any case it's not overwhelming. I was talking about Macron's party, and of course Macron himself got something like 67% at the second round of the election, but only 24% at the first round, and that is seen as low, hampering his legitimacy, etc.
noviorbis77 wrote:Why did the Greens lose half their seats?
Dutchy wrote:Arion640 wrote:Dutchy wrote:
The joy of democracy: https://www.defeestpartij.nl/. Johan Vlemmix is an interesting guy, never a dull moment. Not suited for politics though.
Similar, I guess, to Joe Exotic for president or Lord Buckethead in the UK.
Did you vote for Mark Rutte?
What ever made you think that? No, of course not. Way back in the day, I was a member of his party. I even almost won the VVD-debating tournament (and afterward organized it a few times) with him as a jury member. But I am way to progressive for the VVD and to environmental-minded.
L410Turbolet wrote:Aesma wrote:In any case it's not overwhelming. I was talking about Macron's party, and of course Macron himself got something like 67% at the second round of the election, but only 24% at the first round, and that is seen as low, hampering his legitimacy, etc.
You are comparing two different systems of government/elections.
Arion640 wrote:Dutchy wrote:Arion640 wrote:
Did you vote for Mark Rutte?
What ever made you think that? No, of course not. Way back in the day, I was a member of his party. I even almost won the VVD-debating tournament (and afterward organized it a few times) with him as a jury member. But I am way to progressive for the VVD and to environmental-minded.
Interesting. I think Mark Rutte would get my vote. Although your centre left party doesn’t seem too extreme like our far left labour party.
Aesma wrote:L410Turbolet wrote:Aesma wrote:In any case it's not overwhelming. I was talking about Macron's party, and of course Macron himself got something like 67% at the second round of the election, but only 24% at the first round, and that is seen as low, hampering his legitimacy, etc.
You are comparing two different systems of government/elections.
Yes. Still, when you're so far away from a majority, it means one wrong move and the government falls, which is indeed what happened this time. And happens regularly in Italy.
The new House of Representatives has seventeen parties, four more than in 2017. It is not a record: even after the 1918 elections there were so many parties in the House. After that, however, it never happened again that so many parties populated the Chamber
At the request of D66, not one but two scouts set to work on the basis of the election results to map out the possibilities for cooperation in a new government coalition. These are Annemarie Jorritsma (VVD) and Kajsa Ollongren (D66), Chamber president Khadija Arib announced on Thursday afternoon.
Aesma wrote:L410Turbolet wrote:Aesma wrote:In any case it's not overwhelming. I was talking about Macron's party, and of course Macron himself got something like 67% at the second round of the election, but only 24% at the first round, and that is seen as low, hampering his legitimacy, etc.
You are comparing two different systems of government/elections.
Yes. Still, when you're so far away from a majority, it means one wrong move and the government falls, which is indeed what happened this time. And happens regularly in Italy.
Braybuddy wrote:Dutchy wrote:Most people are behind how the government is handling Covid, sure they disagree on some points, but in general it isn't a real issue. Only the Forum voor Democracy, right populist party, is calling for a totally different policy.
Main issue's climate change/environment, housing (how to build 1millions new homes till 2030), social issues.
That's a big ask: one million new homes by 2030! I think you'll need to start reclaiming some more land!
AeroVega wrote:Aesma wrote:L410Turbolet wrote:You are comparing two different systems of government/elections.
Yes. Still, when you're so far away from a majority, it means one wrong move and the government falls, which is indeed what happened this time. And happens regularly in Italy.
I think many people in The Netherlands were surprised that Rutte resigned so easily over the childcare benefits scandal. That really does not happen in The Netherlands very often.
Now I'm starting to think that Rutte resigned so easily, and so close to the upcoming elections, just to make the childcare benefits scandal a non-issue in the election campaign. It worked splendidly for him.
DIRECTFLT wrote:Braybuddy wrote:Dutchy wrote:Most people are behind how the government is handling Covid, sure they disagree on some points, but in general it isn't a real issue. Only the Forum voor Democracy, right populist party, is calling for a totally different policy.
Main issue's climate change/environment, housing (how to build 1millions new homes till 2030), social issues.
That's a big ask: one million new homes by 2030! I think you'll need to start reclaiming some more land!
I see..., you'll need some "breathing room..."
Dutchy wrote:The derde maasvlakte gave quite a lot of land. All of it industrial though. Well, mostly industrial, a small beach was thrown in to keep the NIMBY's satisfied.I mean the last major polder was reclaimed from the 'sea' is over 50years ago, I mean let's go and reclaim some more.
Dutchy wrote:I would disagree with that. Yes, this happened under Rutte's premiership, but almost everyone, opposition and government alike, was trying to look tough against abusers of the system. Everyone wanted the rules to be toughened, and the enforcement to be made stricter. I think that is also the reason why no party campaigned on this subject matter. It would have been all too easy for journalists to dig up juicy quotes.The position of Rutte was no longer tenable over the childcare benefits.
Dutchy wrote:Housing, in combination with the environmental limitations cause by emissions from amongst others nitrogen (NL stikstof).and a fourth one which slipped my mind.
Aesma wrote:There are calls to bring back proportional representation in France (we had it from 1986 to 1988) but a way must be found to have a bit clearer majorities / decent minorities than what just happened in NL, 17 parties with the biggest one having 23% of the seats would never work here. We see how it's difficult in Italy, but they have had that for some time so they're used to it, here it would be a huge mess especially with the presidential election being clear cut.
petertenthije wrote:Dutchy wrote:The derde maasvlakte gave quite a lot of land. All of it industrial though. Well, mostly industrial, a small beach was thrown in to keep the NIMBY's satisfied.I mean the last major polder was reclaimed from the 'sea' is over 50years ago, I mean let's go and reclaim some more.
Also, in the Markermeer they are working on the Marker Wadden, specifically for ecological reasons.
Dutchy wrote:The formation of a new coalition has been suspended due to one of the verkenners (scout) has tested positive for Corona. Why they do not do this digital is beyond me. All the parties involved are inner crowd, so they know each other very well and things haven't progressed enough for a final push. But there we go, the formation process grinds to a hold, before it even got on the way.
Dutchy wrote:The formation of a new coalition has been suspended due to one of the verkenners (scout) has tested positive for Corona. Why they do not do this digital is beyond me. All the parties involved are inner crowd, so they know each other very well and things haven't progressed enough for a final push. But there we go, the formation process grinds to a hold, before it even got on the way.