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johns624
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:24 pm

casinterest wrote:


Was the family aware of his tendancy to hurt anyone? It seems to me that something broke here, and it was definately mental, but we don't know what yet. Did the family have reason to get a mental health evaluation?
We don't know?

And yes I do blame disgraceful gun shop owners. Not all gun shop owners, but the disgraceful ones. The one that put up political signs and make up lies to propel sales. The ones that would be out of business if the government were to crack down on mental issues and background checks and cooling off periods.

1. Yes, they should've been. He assaulted another student in high school, three years ago.
2. They are the ones who said he was paranoid and heard voices. Haven't you read any of the stories.
3. You must get your view of gun stores from Hollywood movies. They are under constant scrutiny from the ATF. If one gun goes out the door without a background check, they can lose their license and be prosecuted. Many have a large LE clientele, so breaking the law isn't smart. You don't know who the customer 6 feet away is.
4. Any political signs they put up are a business decision. Face it, they would rather have a GOP administration than a Democratic one. It's just common sense.
 
johns624
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:27 pm

seb146 wrote:

It would require background checks. Like looking at police records of who has been in contact with law enforcement for things like domestic disturbances or multiple DUIs. Republicans seem to have a mistrust and hatred for mental health care. They also do not want gun safety at all. They would rather we all think and pray when mass shootings happen rather than actually do something about them. We need to do something. The self proclaimed "party of life" still looks like the party of death. WWJD? Buy more guns.
There are background checks. Mental illness and DV are two of the disqualifiers. The NRA is one of the biggest promoters and trainers of gun safety. I wish that for once, you would do a little background research before you start one of your rants.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:31 pm

johns624 wrote:
by johns624 » 24 Mar 2021 14:24

casinterest wrote:


Was the family aware of his tendancy to hurt anyone? It seems to me that something broke here, and it was definately mental, but we don't know what yet. Did the family have reason to get a mental health evaluation?
We don't know?

And yes I do blame disgraceful gun shop owners. Not all gun shop owners, but the disgraceful ones. The one that put up political signs and make up lies to propel sales. The ones that would be out of business if the government were to crack down on mental issues and background checks and cooling off periods.

1. Yes, they should've been. He assaulted another student in high school, three years ago.

What was the result of three years ago? It seems to me that high school records get wiped if under age? Right?
johns624 wrote:
2. They are the ones who said he was paranoid and heard voices. Haven't you read any of the stories.

I have also read articles that said he was a nice guy that would do anything in a store for you. So what won out? If voices in their head and paranoia was enough, most right wingers would be in mental wards.
johns624 wrote:
You must get your view of gun stores from Hollywood movies. They are under constant scrutiny from the ATF. If one gun goes out the door without a background check, they can lose their license and be prosecuted. Many have a large LE clientele, so breaking the law isn't smart. You don't know who the customer 6 feet away is.


They can, but that is why we see all these new laws looking to lessen restrictions right? So more can go out the door legally. Remember the crux of the data, more guns=more dead from guns.
johns624 wrote:
4. Any political signs they put up are a business decision. Face it, they would rather have a GOP administration than a Democratic one. It's just common sense.


In the long run , is it though? More sales of weapons invites more competition, and many of these gun stores already face going out of business due to competition from bigger sportsman stores.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
JJJ
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:01 pm

johns624 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

It would require background checks. Like looking at police records of who has been in contact with law enforcement for things like domestic disturbances or multiple DUIs. Republicans seem to have a mistrust and hatred for mental health care. They also do not want gun safety at all. They would rather we all think and pray when mass shootings happen rather than actually do something about them. We need to do something. The self proclaimed "party of life" still looks like the party of death. WWJD? Buy more guns.
There are background checks. Mental illness and DV are two of the disqualifiers. The NRA is one of the biggest promoters and trainers of gun safety. I wish that for once, you would do a little background research before you start one of your rants.


Trusting a background check will flag mental cases on a country like the US where access to (mental) healthcare is scarce and expensive is just not enough.

Again, most countries have a phys/psych evaluation as part of the license requirement. It won't stop everyone (Breivik is a prime example) but it does work for a great many others.

And it's not expensive, my last evaluation cost under 40$.
 
johns624
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:30 pm

casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
by johns624 » 24 Mar 2021 14:24

casinterest wrote:


Was the family aware of his tendancy to hurt anyone? It seems to me that something broke here, and it was definately mental, but we don't know what yet. Did the family have reason to get a mental health evaluation?
We don't know?

And yes I do blame disgraceful gun shop owners. Not all gun shop owners, but the disgraceful ones. The one that put up political signs and make up lies to propel sales. The ones that would be out of business if the government were to crack down on mental issues and background checks and cooling off periods.

1. Yes, they should've been. He assaulted another student in high school, three years ago.

What was the result of three years ago? It seems to me that high school records get wiped if under age? Right?
johns624 wrote:
2. They are the ones who said he was paranoid and heard voices. Haven't you read any of the stories.

I have also read articles that said he was a nice guy that would do anything in a store for you. So what won out? If voices in their head and paranoia was enough, most right wingers would be in mental wards.
johns624 wrote:
You must get your view of gun stores from Hollywood movies. They are under constant scrutiny from the ATF. If one gun goes out the door without a background check, they can lose their license and be prosecuted. Many have a large LE clientele, so breaking the law isn't smart. You don't know who the customer 6 feet away is.


They can, but that is why we see all these new laws looking to lessen restrictions right? So more can go out the door legally. Remember the crux of the data, more guns=more dead from guns.
johns624 wrote:
4. Any political signs they put up are a business decision. Face it, they would rather have a GOP administration than a Democratic one. It's just common sense.


In the long run , is it though? More sales of weapons invites more competition, and many of these gun stores already face going out of business due to competition from bigger sportsman stores.

1. Keep your story straight. You asked if his family knew he was violent and I replied that he assaulted a fellow student in high school. Then you talk about juvenile records. That has nothing to do with whether his family knew or not.
2. I don't care how "helpful" people who didn't know him well thought he was. His family thought he was paranoid. If you live with them (which he did) his family knows him better than anyone. They've seen him change over 21 years.
3. All what laws to loosen restrictions? Gun sales are governed by Federal law and those restrictions haven't eased.
4. Gun shops aren't going out of business due to big box stores. Quite the opposite. Gander Mountain went bankrupt. Dick's no longer sells guns. Cabelas got bought by Bass Pro and will be closing stores. Most well established local gun shops, especially those with ranges, are thriving.
5. Just like seb146, I wish you would do a little background research before you come here with your agendas. You don't know the facts and just make yourself look ignorant.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:32 pm

johns624 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
by johns624 » 24 Mar 2021 14:24

casinterest wrote:


Was the family aware of his tendancy to hurt anyone? It seems to me that something broke here, and it was definately mental, but we don't know what yet. Did the family have reason to get a mental health evaluation?
We don't know?

And yes I do blame disgraceful gun shop owners. Not all gun shop owners, but the disgraceful ones. The one that put up political signs and make up lies to propel sales. The ones that would be out of business if the government were to crack down on mental issues and background checks and cooling off periods.

1. Yes, they should've been. He assaulted another student in high school, three years ago.

What was the result of three years ago? It seems to me that high school records get wiped if under age? Right?
johns624 wrote:
2. They are the ones who said he was paranoid and heard voices. Haven't you read any of the stories.

I have also read articles that said he was a nice guy that would do anything in a store for you. So what won out? If voices in their head and paranoia was enough, most right wingers would be in mental wards.
johns624 wrote:
You must get your view of gun stores from Hollywood movies. They are under constant scrutiny from the ATF. If one gun goes out the door without a background check, they can lose their license and be prosecuted. Many have a large LE clientele, so breaking the law isn't smart. You don't know who the customer 6 feet away is.


They can, but that is why we see all these new laws looking to lessen restrictions right? So more can go out the door legally. Remember the crux of the data, more guns=more dead from guns.
johns624 wrote:
4. Any political signs they put up are a business decision. Face it, they would rather have a GOP administration than a Democratic one. It's just common sense.


In the long run , is it though? More sales of weapons invites more competition, and many of these gun stores already face going out of business due to competition from bigger sportsman stores.

1. Keep your story straight. You asked if his family knew he was violent and I replied that he assaulted a fellow student in high school. Then you talk about juvenile records. That has nothing to do with whether his family knew or not.
2. I don't care how "helpful" people who didn't know him well thought he was. His family thought he was paranoid. If you live with them (which he did) his family knows him better than anyone. They've seen him change over 21 years.
3. All what laws to loosen restrictions? Gun sales are governed by Federal law and those restrictions haven't eased.
4. Gun shops aren't going out of business due to big box stores. Quite the opposite. Gander Mountain went bankrupt. Dick's no longer sells guns. Cabelas got bought by Bass Pro and will be closing stores. Most well established local gun shops, especially those with ranges, are thriving.
5. Just like seb146, I wish you would do a little background research before you come here with your agendas. You don't know the facts and just make yourself look ignorant.


I am just posting what we know. More gun sellers, lax rules, ,more deaths. The line is easy to fix. but yet "Freedom" and blame the family, blame the shooter is the claim from those that just want to make money at no consequence. It is typical of the GOP. Claim freedom, and blame others for the consequences instead of finding a solution.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081
Image
Image

and it keeps getting worse.
Image
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
Elkadad313
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:40 pm

casinterest wrote:
We live in a world where the US has one of the highest death rates by gun murder/suicide than most of what we consider highly functioning democracies.

Notwithstanding mass shootings and suicide, U.S. death rates due to gun violence would be REMARKABLY lower if inner-city gang shootings were not included.

Example: 'It’s Chicago – why shouldn’t I have a gun?' (https://www.defenselawyersite.com/its-c ... ave-a-gun/)
 
johns624
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:45 pm

casinterest wrote:

I am just posting what we know. More gun sellers, lax rules, ,more deaths. The line is easy to fix. but yet "Freedom" and blame the family, blame the shooter is the claim from those that just want to make money at no consequence. It is typical of the GOP. Claim freedom, and blame others for the consequences instead of finding a solution.

You don't know what you don't know. What lax rules are you talking about? We blame the shooter because he's the killer. If a drunk driver kills someone, we blame the driver, not the car or the alcohol manufacturer. We blame the family because they didn't do anything. Finding him mentally ill and paying for treatment are two different things. If he was found mentally ill, he'd still have problems but he wouldn't have a gun.
Most people on here are open to a good debate. Some just have their agendas. Bye, have fun.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:45 pm

Elkadad313 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
We live in a world where the US has one of the highest death rates by gun murder/suicide than most of what we consider highly functioning democracies.

Notwithstanding mass shootings and suicide, U.S. death rates due to gun violence would be REMARKABLY lower if inner-city gang shootings were not included.

Example: 'It’s Chicago – why shouldn’t I have a gun?' (https://www.defenselawyersite.com/its-c ... ave-a-gun/)

Mass Shootings and Suicide are still gun deaths, and in the case of Mass Shootings,. They are on a rise that correlates with AR style sales.

Image

https://theconversation.com/mass-shooti ... why-150981
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
N583JB
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:08 pm

casinterest wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
We live in a world where the US has one of the highest death rates by gun murder/suicide than most of what we consider highly functioning democracies.

Notwithstanding mass shootings and suicide, U.S. death rates due to gun violence would be REMARKABLY lower if inner-city gang shootings were not included.

Example: 'It’s Chicago – why shouldn’t I have a gun?' (https://www.defenselawyersite.com/its-c ... ave-a-gun/)

Mass Shootings and Suicide are still gun deaths, and in the case of Mass Shootings,. They are on a rise that correlates with AR style sales.

Image

https://theconversation.com/mass-shooti ... why-150981


The vast majority of "mass shootings" that are included in that graphic are gang-related drive-bys involving handguns in which many people are wounded but few if any are killed. Despite the media's and the left's obsession with ARs, more people in the United States are beaten to death or killed with blunt objects than are murdered by rifles of any kind.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:22 pm

N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Notwithstanding mass shootings and suicide, U.S. death rates due to gun violence would be REMARKABLY lower if inner-city gang shootings were not included.

Example: 'It’s Chicago – why shouldn’t I have a gun?' (https://www.defenselawyersite.com/its-c ... ave-a-gun/)

Mass Shootings and Suicide are still gun deaths, and in the case of Mass Shootings,. They are on a rise that correlates with AR style sales.

Image

https://theconversation.com/mass-shooti ... why-150981


The vast majority of "mass shootings" that are included in that graphic are gang-related drive-bys involving handguns in which many people are wounded but few if any are killed. Despite the media's and the left's obsession with ARs, more people in the United States are beaten to death or killed with blunt objects than are murdered by rifles of any kind.


And yet we still have the highest gun rate deaths amongst our peers in the world. Gun Laws work.

Image

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/8/18254626/m ... laws-study
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
Elkadad313
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:51 pm

casinterest wrote:
Mass Shootings and Suicide are still gun deaths, and in the case of Mass Shootings,. They are on a rise that correlates with AR style sales.

Take gang-related shootings (most of which are considered mas shootings) out of the equation and it doesn't support your portrayal. The rise of AR style gun sales and the increase in gun-related deaths is largely coincidental.
 
Chemist
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:54 pm

When the Constitution was written, we had perhaps muskets. Very weak weapons.
Now we have automatic rifles.
I've often wondered that if/when somebody comes up with a "gun" that can shoot tactical nukes, if the NRA and gun owners will still be upset if somebody tries to put controls on that? Because what we have today is nothing like what was available when the original guarantees to bear arms were written.
 
N583JB
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:57 pm

casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Mass Shootings and Suicide are still gun deaths, and in the case of Mass Shootings,. They are on a rise that correlates with AR style sales.

Image

https://theconversation.com/mass-shooti ... why-150981


The vast majority of "mass shootings" that are included in that graphic are gang-related drive-bys involving handguns in which many people are wounded but few if any are killed. Despite the media's and the left's obsession with ARs, more people in the United States are beaten to death or killed with blunt objects than are murdered by rifles of any kind.


And yet we still have the highest gun rate deaths amongst our peers in the world. Gun Laws work.

Image

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/8/18254626/m ... laws-study


Tell that to Chicago. Or Los Angeles. Or Washington DC. Or St. Louis. And so on.
 
N583JB
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:58 pm

Chemist wrote:
When the Constitution was written, we had perhaps muskets. Very weak weapons.
Now we have automatic rifles.
I've often wondered that if/when somebody comes up with a "gun" that can shoot tactical nukes, if the NRA and gun owners will still be upset if somebody tries to put controls on that? Because what we have today is nothing like what was available when the original guarantees to bear arms were written.


The Constitution was also written before the internet, TV, and radio were in existence, yet free speech is still protected across all of those mediums.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:03 pm

Elkadad313 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Mass Shootings and Suicide are still gun deaths, and in the case of Mass Shootings,. They are on a rise that correlates with AR style sales.

Take gang-related shootings (most of which are considered mas shootings) out of the equation and it doesn't support your portrayal. The rise of AR style gun sales and the increase in gun-related deaths is largely coincidental.



Image

https://rockinst.org/issue-area/assault ... lawmakers/
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
johns624
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:10 pm

Chemist wrote:
When the Constitution was written, we had perhaps muskets. Very weak weapons.
Now we have automatic rifles.
No, we don't. We have semi-automatic guns and they've been around for well over one hundred years. The famous Colt 1911 was adopted in...wait...1911. But hey, don't let facts get in the way. Fully automatic guns have been tightly regulated since 1934. Before then, civilians could buy them over the counter. Now, there are a finite number and they start at $10K and I don't believe have ever been used in a crime.
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:30 pm

Possible copycat situation averted in Atlanta:

https://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-man-t ... YQTBOADBU/

Source: Atlanta Journal-Constitution
 
NIKV69
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:41 pm

mdsh00 wrote:
So someone with a Middle Eastern name must automatically be a foreign terrorist?


It works both ways just as anyone with certain political beliefs is automatically a domestic terrorist.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
N583JB
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:44 pm

casinterest wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Mass Shootings and Suicide are still gun deaths, and in the case of Mass Shootings,. They are on a rise that correlates with AR style sales.

Take gang-related shootings (most of which are considered mas shootings) out of the equation and it doesn't support your portrayal. The rise of AR style gun sales and the increase in gun-related deaths is largely coincidental.



Image

https://rockinst.org/issue-area/assault ... lawmakers/


And yet more people are murdered with blunt objects than shot and killed by rifles of any kind in the United States each year.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:47 pm

N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Take gang-related shootings (most of which are considered mas shootings) out of the equation and it doesn't support your portrayal. The rise of AR style gun sales and the increase in gun-related deaths is largely coincidental.



Image

https://rockinst.org/issue-area/assault ... lawmakers/


And yet more people are murdered with blunt objects than shot and killed by rifles of any kind in the United States each year.



It still doesn't answer why we allow Assault style rifles to be sold and allowed to murder so many.

Look at it this way. The GOP was prepared to waste Billions on an ineffective wall that solves none of the issues with illegal immigration. On an issue where we could clearly make a difference( gun deaths) they cry freedom, and let people die.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
N583JB
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:08 pm

casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:


And yet more people are murdered with blunt objects than shot and killed by rifles of any kind in the United States each year.



It still doesn't answer why we allow Assault style rifles to be sold and allowed to murder so many.

Look at it this way. The GOP was prepared to waste Billions on an ineffective wall that solves none of the issues with illegal immigration. On an issue where we could clearly make a difference( gun deaths) they cry freedom, and let people die.


I don't think it would make as much of a difference as you think it would. Banning a weapon that kills less people than bare fists each year isn't going to solve much. Keep in mind that prior to 2016, the deadliest mass shooting in the United States involved a gunman with two handguns. As it stands now there are more than 15,000,000 "assault-style" rifles in circulation in the United States, and rifles of any kind account for less than 400 homicides annually. Being generous and assuming that each of those 400 homicides was killed by a different "assault-style rifle", less than 0.001% of those rifles are used for any kind of homicide annually. And let's not forget that those homicide statistics also include justifiable homicide....i.e. self defense.
 
AirbusCheerlead
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:13 pm

[url][/url]
extender wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
Some American thinks it's fair game to shoot a guy who breaks into their house to steal a TV, and that to have the opportunity to carry out a death sentence is worth the lives of +10K people a year.

I'll just do the logical thing and stay the hell away from that place.


How would you know that they just want your TV? What about your teenage daughter?


If your point is to safe teenage girls from rape, the most effective mesure would be to ban families and friends...
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:52 pm

casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:


And yet more people are murdered with blunt objects than shot and killed by rifles of any kind in the United States each year.



It still doesn't answer why we allow Assault style rifles to be sold and allowed to murder so many.

Look at it this way. The GOP was prepared to waste Billions on an ineffective wall that solves none of the issues with illegal immigration. On an issue where we could clearly make a difference( gun deaths) they cry freedom, and let people die.


Define “assault rifle” in technical terms.
 
petertenthije
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:53 pm

Elkadad313 wrote:
Notwithstanding mass shootings and suicide, U.S. death rates due to gun violence would be REMARKABLY lower if inner-city gang shootings were not included.

By that logic, you shoukd also remove drug related shootings from the European statistics.
I am pretty sure that will make the US figures compared to Europe even worse then they already are.
The first thing to remember is always treat your kite like you treat your woman.
Get inside her five times a day and take her to heaven and back!
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Kent350787
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:04 pm

petertenthije wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Notwithstanding mass shootings and suicide, U.S. death rates due to gun violence would be REMARKABLY lower if inner-city gang shootings were not included.

By that logic, you shoukd also remove drug related shootings from the European statistics.
I am pretty sure that will make the US figures compared to Europe even worse then they already are.


Same for Australia. Apart from murder-suicides, gun related homicide is almost entirely criminal gang related, even at 0.15 deaths per 100,000. The risk of a person without gang ties suffering a firearm related incident is absolutely minute.
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Aaron747
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:09 am

NIKV69 wrote:
mdsh00 wrote:
So someone with a Middle Eastern name must automatically be a foreign terrorist?


It works both ways just as anyone with certain political beliefs is automatically a domestic terrorist.


Absolutely zero nuance here and it sucks. Someone with a middle eastern name, who hangs out at a known radical mosque and travels frequently to conflict zones - yeah, we can suspect terror links. Random guy with middle eastern name who lived in the US since 3 and not outwardly religious? Nah.

Right wing nutjob who lives alone like Terry Nichols, joins armed militia rallies, and frequently posts online about ‘evils of the FBI’ - yeah, fits the domestic terrorist profile. Dude holding a ‘Keep My Taxes Low - Trump 2024’ sign - nah. Happy? Stop making everything so hypergeneralized.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Elkadad313
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:01 am

petertenthije wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Notwithstanding mass shootings and suicide, U.S. death rates due to gun violence would be REMARKABLY lower if inner-city gang shootings were not included.

By that logic, you shoukd also remove drug related shootings from the European statistics.
I am pretty sure that will make the US figures compared to Europe even worse then they already are.

You are doing the comparisons, not me. By any measure the rates would be MUCH lower (leaving Europe out of it).
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:41 am

casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

It's always easy to blame the family, when you shut down access to social and medical issues that could have helped them out. Medical and mental care in this country comes at a steep prices, and it not available to all. The easiest thing here would have been laws on background checks, waiting periods and multiple other items. These weapon are far too available in the US, and our medical system is far too weak thanks to the undermining of the Anti life NRA and GOP.
It's always easy to pass the blame to others when you have an agenda. It doesn't matter how bad the psychiatric health system is if you don't attempt to use it. All it would've taken would be a 72 hour involuntary evaluation for him to be a prohibited person. Once again, the liberals are the ones who want to keep medical records completely private. Until the information is put into the system, all the background checks in the world aren't going to uncover anything, because there's nothing to uncover. Their brother was hearing voices and was paranoid and thought the world was out to get him, he bought couple of guns, and they did nothing? They should burn in hell.


So you blame families for mental illeness? Still can't bring yourself to blame the uncaring folks that sold the gun though right? Maybe if they had been smarter, or not so concerned with making a buck they would have done the right thing and not sold the gun ?

But you want to blame HIPPA? HIPPA protects records from people without authorization. Doctors have all the authority they need if people go to them for treatment. However due to costs and other items, people are not properly treated.


HIPAA not HIPPA, too many people make this mistake.

And sometimes families are to blame for mental illness. If a child is subject to abuse from an early age it can cause many mental illnesses.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 15587
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:46 am

Pellegrine wrote:
casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
It's always easy to pass the blame to others when you have an agenda. It doesn't matter how bad the psychiatric health system is if you don't attempt to use it. All it would've taken would be a 72 hour involuntary evaluation for him to be a prohibited person. Once again, the liberals are the ones who want to keep medical records completely private. Until the information is put into the system, all the background checks in the world aren't going to uncover anything, because there's nothing to uncover. Their brother was hearing voices and was paranoid and thought the world was out to get him, he bought couple of guns, and they did nothing? They should burn in hell.


So you blame families for mental illeness? Still can't bring yourself to blame the uncaring folks that sold the gun though right? Maybe if they had been smarter, or not so concerned with making a buck they would have done the right thing and not sold the gun ?

But you want to blame HIPPA? HIPPA protects records from people without authorization. Doctors have all the authority they need if people go to them for treatment. However due to costs and other items, people are not properly treated.


HIPAA not HIPPA, too many people make this mistake.

And sometimes families are to blame for mental illness. If a child is subject to abuse from an early age it can cause many mental illnesses.


:checkmark: Harsh family/living environment, chronic illness, and school bullying are the recognized top triggers for mental illness in adolescents and teens.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:51 am

JJJ wrote:
johns624 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

It would require background checks. Like looking at police records of who has been in contact with law enforcement for things like domestic disturbances or multiple DUIs. Republicans seem to have a mistrust and hatred for mental health care. They also do not want gun safety at all. They would rather we all think and pray when mass shootings happen rather than actually do something about them. We need to do something. The self proclaimed "party of life" still looks like the party of death. WWJD? Buy more guns.
There are background checks. Mental illness and DV are two of the disqualifiers. The NRA is one of the biggest promoters and trainers of gun safety. I wish that for once, you would do a little background research before you start one of your rants.


Trusting a background check will flag mental cases on a country like the US where access to (mental) healthcare is scarce and expensive is just not enough.

Again, most countries have a phys/psych evaluation as part of the license requirement. It won't stop everyone (Breivik is a prime example) but it does work for a great many others.

And it's not expensive, my last evaluation cost under 40$.


A psych evaluation for $40? Imagine. People in the US going to private practice therapists in big cities pay $120-250+ for less than an hour of talk therapy. If you go weekly (or for some people twice weekly) that sure adds up.

Some of these 'ammosexuals' in the US are something else...
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
alfa164
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:45 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Mass Shootings and Suicide are still gun deaths, and in the case of Mass Shootings,. They are on a rise that correlates with AR style sales.

Take gang-related shootings (most of which are considered mas shootings) out of the equation and it doesn't support your portrayal. The rise of AR style gun sales and the increase in gun-related deaths is largely coincidental.


Do you have any facts - or, pray tell, any evidence - to support that statement?

We will wait...

:o

N583JB wrote:
And yet more people are murdered with blunt objects than shot and killed by rifles of any kind in the United States each year.


Let's ask you, too: where are your statistics? Links? Sources?

Or is this just another unsupported claim?

:roll:
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
FGITD
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:21 am

alfa164 wrote:

N583JB wrote:
And yet more people are murdered with blunt objects than shot and killed by rifles of any kind in the United States each year.


Let's ask you, too: where are your statistics? Links? Sources?

Or is this just another unsupported claim?

:roll:


The first point is comical. Why don't we remove rape from the sex crimes list? Bet the percentage will go way down.

In the blunt weapon vs rifle argument, it's actually correct, though be it fairly close. However in the case of any gun vs any other type of weapon, it's not even a race.

I don't recall the source, but I believe somewhere around 75% of all multiple victim homicides in the US are committed with guns.

But of course it all shouldn't surprise anyone. Like it or not, guns are designed to kill. More guns will inevitably lead to more deaths.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... able-4.xls

https://www.statista.com/statistics/195 ... apon-used/
 
ltbewr
Topic Author
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:39 am

The USA is not going to make major changes in our gun laws in large part as not enough Democrats will support stronger laws as fear losing in their next election.
 
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seb146
Posts: 23874
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:03 am

JJJ wrote:
johns624 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

It would require background checks. Like looking at police records of who has been in contact with law enforcement for things like domestic disturbances or multiple DUIs. Republicans seem to have a mistrust and hatred for mental health care. They also do not want gun safety at all. They would rather we all think and pray when mass shootings happen rather than actually do something about them. We need to do something. The self proclaimed "party of life" still looks like the party of death. WWJD? Buy more guns.
There are background checks. Mental illness and DV are two of the disqualifiers. The NRA is one of the biggest promoters and trainers of gun safety. I wish that for once, you would do a little background research before you start one of your rants.


Trusting a background check will flag mental cases on a country like the US where access to (mental) healthcare is scarce and expensive is just not enough.

Again, most countries have a phys/psych evaluation as part of the license requirement. It won't stop everyone (Breivik is a prime example) but it does work for a great many others.

And it's not expensive, my last evaluation cost under 40$.


Other countries have many restrictions on gun ownership. Like military service.

Before marijuana was legal in many states, a person could go to an office and have a video conference with a doctor and be declared eligible for medical marijuana. The NRA would totally fund something like that. Pay $40 and get as many guns as you want.

My "agenda" is to stop this insane "thoughts and prayers" trope from the party of "every life is sacred" and "we value all Americans" every time someone buys a gun and THE SAME DAMN DAY takes out multiple lives. Republicans do not care about all Americans, only a select few. They proved on 1/6 they don't even care about cops. They wrap themselves in the flag and wave their precious Bible (because they believe that is above the Constitution) around while blood runs in the streets. I will NOT apologize for protecting life sounding like a terrible agenda....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:05 am

ltbewr wrote:
The USA is not going to make major changes in our gun laws in large part as not enough Democrats will support stronger laws as fear losing in their next election.


How many parts of the Constitution have evolved over the years but, somehow 2A has remained the same? The Founding Fathers, slave owners, had only single shot rifles. Not this 30 to 90 rounds a minute we have today. But, we have to live by ONLY the last four words because reasons.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:12 am

N583JB wrote:

The vast majority of "mass shootings" that are included in that graphic are gang-related drive-bys involving handguns in which many people are wounded but few if any are killed. Despite the media's and the left's obsession with ARs, more people in the United States are beaten to death or killed with blunt objects than are murdered by rifles of any kind.


Go on provide the statistics that back up that claim.
 
N583JB
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:40 am

alfa164 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Mass Shootings and Suicide are still gun deaths, and in the case of Mass Shootings,. They are on a rise that correlates with AR style sales.

Take gang-related shootings (most of which are considered mas shootings) out of the equation and it doesn't support your portrayal. The rise of AR style gun sales and the increase in gun-related deaths is largely coincidental.


Do you have any facts - or, pray tell, any evidence - to support that statement?

We will wait...

:o

N583JB wrote:
And yet more people are murdered with blunt objects than shot and killed by rifles of any kind in the United States each year.


Let's ask you, too: where are your statistics? Links? Sources?

Or is this just another unsupported claim?

:roll:


Sure thing. Here ya go-

https://www.statista.com/statistics/195 ... apon-used/
 
N583JB
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:41 am

seb146 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
The USA is not going to make major changes in our gun laws in large part as not enough Democrats will support stronger laws as fear losing in their next election.


How many parts of the Constitution have evolved over the years but, somehow 2A has remained the same? The Founding Fathers, slave owners, had only single shot rifles. Not this 30 to 90 rounds a minute we have today. But, we have to live by ONLY the last four words because reasons.


They also didn't have computers, or televisions, or radios, yet free speech still applies to those methods of communication.
 
N583JB
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:42 am

Kiwirob wrote:
N583JB wrote:

The vast majority of "mass shootings" that are included in that graphic are gang-related drive-bys involving handguns in which many people are wounded but few if any are killed. Despite the media's and the left's obsession with ARs, more people in the United States are beaten to death or killed with blunt objects than are murdered by rifles of any kind.


Go on provide the statistics that back up that claim.


Here you go-
https://www.statista.com/statistics/195 ... apon-used/
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13564
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:55 am

N583JB wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
N583JB wrote:

The vast majority of "mass shootings" that are included in that graphic are gang-related drive-bys involving handguns in which many people are wounded but few if any are killed. Despite the media's and the left's obsession with ARs, more people in the United States are beaten to death or killed with blunt objects than are murdered by rifles of any kind.


Go on provide the statistics that back up that claim.


Here you go-

https://www.statista.com/statistics/195 ... apon-used/


it's pretty close to being neck and neck, you could also guarantee that some of the 3281 firearms, type not stated are rifles.
 
JJJ
Posts: 4105
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Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:34 am

N583JB wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
N583JB wrote:

The vast majority of "mass shootings" that are included in that graphic are gang-related drive-bys involving handguns in which many people are wounded but few if any are killed. Despite the media's and the left's obsession with ARs, more people in the United States are beaten to death or killed with blunt objects than are murdered by rifles of any kind.


Go on provide the statistics that back up that claim.


Here you go-
https://www.statista.com/statistics/195 ... apon-used/


For the kind of mass shootings that mostly make the news rifles are disproportionately used, and prior mental health problems or signs usually go hand in hand.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... tings-map/
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... full-data/

Getting rid of gang crime is largely a law enforcement and local community issue. These mass shootings have deeper roots into mental health and how it's treated.
 
N583JB
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:43 am

Kiwirob wrote:
N583JB wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

Go on provide the statistics that back up that claim.


Here you go-

https://www.statista.com/statistics/195 ... apon-used/


it's pretty close to being neck and neck, you could also guarantee that some of the 3281 firearms, type not stated are rifles.


Sure....I don't feel like doing the math right now, but if you used the known ratios (X% handguns/Y% rifles/Z% shotguns), we could probably come up with a reasonably accurate estimate for the 3281 unknowns.
 
N583JB
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:44 am

JJJ wrote:
N583JB wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

Go on provide the statistics that back up that claim.


Here you go-
https://www.statista.com/statistics/195 ... apon-used/


For the kind of mass shootings that mostly make the news rifles are disproportionately used, and prior mental health problems or signs usually go hand in hand.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... tings-map/
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... full-data/

Getting rid of gang crime is largely a law enforcement and local community issue. These mass shootings have deeper roots into mental health and how it's treated.


No disagreements here.
 
johns624
Posts: 3936
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:11 pm

seb146 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
johns624 wrote:
There are background checks. Mental illness and DV are two of the disqualifiers. The NRA is one of the biggest promoters and trainers of gun safety. I wish that for once, you would do a little background research before you start one of your rants.


Trusting a background check will flag mental cases on a country like the US where access to (mental) healthcare is scarce and expensive is just not enough.

Again, most countries have a phys/psych evaluation as part of the license requirement. It won't stop everyone (Breivik is a prime example) but it does work for a great many others.

And it's not expensive, my last evaluation cost under 40$.


Other countries have many restrictions on gun ownership. Like military service.

Before marijuana was legal in many states, a person could go to an office and have a video conference with a doctor and be declared eligible for medical marijuana. The NRA would totally fund something like that. Pay $40 and get as many guns as you want.

My "agenda" is to stop this insane "thoughts and prayers" trope from the party of "every life is sacred" and "we value all Americans" every time someone buys a gun and THE SAME DAMN DAY takes out multiple lives. Republicans do not care about all Americans, only a select few. They proved on 1/6 they don't even care about cops. They wrap themselves in the flag and wave their precious Bible (because they believe that is above the Constitution) around while blood runs in the streets. I will NOT apologize for protecting life sounding like a terrible agenda....
Once again, I'm not a Republican, and neither are a lot of gun owners who support the 2nd Amendment. Not everyone is a one-issue voter. In fact, I think that anyone who is, is an idiot.
When you think that there are 15-20 million (at least) semi automatic, high capacity rifles out there, it's only a minute number that are being used in shootings.
 
art
Posts: 4169
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:45 pm

I assume that the number of people killed with firearms is seen as a problem in the US. I live in another democracy in which the number of people killed with firearms is not seen as a problem (of much magnitude). I would welcome a history lesson if anyone would be so kind.

Why was the 2nd amendment proposed? What were the arguments for and against at the time? When was it passed?
 
extender
Posts: 943
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:47 pm

art wrote:
I assume that the number of people killed with firearms is seen as a problem in the US. I live in another democracy in which the number of people killed with firearms is not seen as a problem (of much magnitude). I would welcome a history lesson if anyone would be so kind.

Why was the 2nd amendment proposed? What were the arguments for and against at the time? When was it passed?


Google is your friend:

Link
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:02 pm

Elkadad313 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Mass Shootings and Suicide are still gun deaths, and in the case of Mass Shootings,. They are on a rise that correlates with AR style sales.

Take gang-related shootings (most of which are considered mas shootings) out of the equation and it doesn't support your portrayal. The rise of AR style gun sales and the increase in gun-related deaths is largely coincidental.

Citation? Why would you “take them out”? I thought all lives mattered?

Don’t bother—we all know why the NRA and conservatives don’t care about “inner city” *wink wink* lives.

N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
The USA is not going to make major changes in our gun laws in large part as not enough Democrats will support stronger laws as fear losing in their next election.


How many parts of the Constitution have evolved over the years but, somehow 2A has remained the same? The Founding Fathers, slave owners, had only single shot rifles. Not this 30 to 90 rounds a minute we have today. But, we have to live by ONLY the last four words because reasons.


They also didn't have computers, or televisions, or radios, yet free speech still applies to those methods of communication.

Free speech's meaning has not changed because of technology. The 2nd Amendment's meaning has changed completely.
Last edited by MaverickM11 on Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
art
Posts: 4169
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:13 pm

extender wrote:
art wrote:
I assume that the number of people killed with firearms is seen as a problem in the US. I live in another democracy in which the number of people killed with firearms is not seen as a problem (of much magnitude). I would welcome a history lesson if anyone would be so kind.

Why was the 2nd amendment proposed? What were the arguments for and against at the time? When was it passed?


Google is your friend:

Link


Thanks.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13804
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:19 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
casinterest wrote:

So you blame families for mental illeness? Still can't bring yourself to blame the uncaring folks that sold the gun though right? Maybe if they had been smarter, or not so concerned with making a buck they would have done the right thing and not sold the gun ?

But you want to blame HIPPA? HIPPA protects records from people without authorization. Doctors have all the authority they need if people go to them for treatment. However due to costs and other items, people are not properly treated.


HIPAA not HIPPA, too many people make this mistake.

And sometimes families are to blame for mental illness. If a child is subject to abuse from an early age it can cause many mental illnesses.


:checkmark: Harsh family/living environment, chronic illness, and school bullying are the recognized top triggers for mental illness in adolescents and teens.



We can blame all of it. Easy access to guns with limited mental checks allows all of those things to result in the rampages we see occurring.

Mental health Doctors almost always never see the worst of the patients. Red Flags will be hard from their perspective. The point of purchase, and background checks must be stronger.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain

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