Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 2654
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:08 pm

bennett123 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

There are some pretty left-wing people in my circle of colleagues and relatives - none of them are for banning 'all' firearms, especially handguns. Most people on the left and center who want to ban anything are after military derivative rifles and high capacity magazines.


If the only guns in Chicago were pistols... would the murder rate be any different??

Some nations require every household to have a gun and ammo. It's called a level playing field.


Which ones?.


Switzerland for one..

https://www.businessinsider.com/switzer ... ths-2018-2
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:52 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:

If the only guns in Chicago were pistols... would the murder rate be any different??

Some nations require every household to have a gun and ammo. It's called a level playing field.


Which ones?.


Switzerland for one..

https://www.businessinsider.com/switzer ... ths-2018-2

So you support Switzerland’s gun control laws? Let’s implement them now!
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15701
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:13 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
bennett123 wrote:

Which ones?.


Switzerland for one..

https://www.businessinsider.com/switzer ... ths-2018-2

So you support Switzerland’s gun control laws? Let’s implement them now!


It never fails, the non-reading of things that get posted :rotfl:
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1397
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:12 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

So....are you saying now you're suddenly concerned about the effects of long term poverty on specific areas?


Wait, the same way people are 'concerned' about a mass shooting only when it happens outside of Chicago?

If people truly cared about any lives at all, outrage and concern would be in display every day in Chicago where mass shootings occur daily.


As already said in this thread, shootings are unfortunately a regular occurrence on Chicago's south side, so they don't get media attention beyond local Chicago news. Shootings are more rare in malls, schools, and supermarkets, so those get mass coverage. There's a difference as well between gang-on-gang fatalities and citizens just doing their daily shopping becoming victims.

Urban poverty has not been successfully resolved in the US for five decades because we are unwilling to make the changes to funding, community, and metropolitan management that would facilitate meaningful change. The shootings in Chicago are generally a symptom of that reality.


Chicago's mass shooting problem can be solved over night you know? how? Policing. More police will resolve the problem of Chicago, more enforcement of the EXISTENT laws will fix the problem of Chicago. But as with Baltimore and recently NYC, its politicians are not interested. That's why the law abiding citizens of these cities are hurt by this, because they have the most strict gun laws yet policing sucks.

And BTW, not only gang members die from the mass shootings in Chicago, innocent children do die. https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shootin ... d/6289523/ And if we truly "cared" about all lives, we would care about children too, who die weekly on shootings in Chicago.

Anyways, lets feel outraged about SOME killings and shootings, just ignore the ones that occur daily.

The solution is not more gun laws, the same way illegal drugs come to the US, the same way they would if guns are banned in this country, and killings will continue.
 
extender
Posts: 951
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:17 pm

29 people die per day in the US at the hand of drunk drivers. Ban alcohol. Ban cars. Abortion kills, but that is acceptable to those that are FOR gun control. Like it or not, RTKBA is enumerated in the Constitution. Maybe we should have mental health checks on voters too...

This happened in a state that is the "gold standard" for democats pushing GC in regards to background checks and Red Flag laws. The family should have known, go take it up with them.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15701
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:22 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Chicago's mass shooting problem can be solved over night you know? how? Policing. More police will resolve the problem of Chicago, more enforcement of the EXISTENT laws will fix the problem of Chicago. But as with Baltimore and recently NYC, its politicians are not interested. That's why the law abiding citizens of these cities are hurt by this, because they have the most strict gun laws yet policing sucks.


Getting colder, not warmer. Way way way out of your depth here. Improved policing is but one of about ten required steps.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:29 pm

extender wrote:
29 people die per day in the US at the hand of drunk drivers. Ban alcohol. Ban cars. Abortion kills, but that is acceptable to those that are FOR gun control. Like it or not, RTKBA is enumerated in the Constitution. Maybe we should have mental health checks on voters too...

This happened in a state that is the "gold standard" for democats pushing GC in regards to background checks and Red Flag laws. The family should have known, go take it up with them.

You can stop pretending you care about abortion. No one is buying it.


AirWorthy99 wrote:
Chicago's mass shooting problem can be solved over night you know? how? Policing. More police will resolve the problem of Chicago, more enforcement of the EXISTENT laws will fix the problem of Chicago. But as with Baltimore and recently NYC, its politicians are not interested. That's why the law abiding citizens of these cities are hurt by this, because they have the most strict gun laws yet policing sucks.

Look up Chicago police black sites. There's a reason no one trusts or depends on the police. One of the many reasons you have no idea what you're talking about.

Also you realize Chicago is not even in the top 30 most dangerous cities right? You need some new talking points spoon fed to you.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1397
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:43 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Chicago's mass shooting problem can be solved over night you know? how? Policing. More police will resolve the problem of Chicago, more enforcement of the EXISTENT laws will fix the problem of Chicago. But as with Baltimore and recently NYC, its politicians are not interested. That's why the law abiding citizens of these cities are hurt by this, because they have the most strict gun laws yet policing sucks.


Getting colder, not warmer. Way way way out of your depth here. Improved policing is but one of about ten required steps.


Based on your previous response, your “solution” is exactly what the government has done for 60 years, pour money, elect Democrat politicians and creat laws that the same politicians dont want enforced.

Recipe to continue beliving government “programs” will resolve anything, but allow mayhem continue and blame the second ammendment.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15701
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:56 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Chicago's mass shooting problem can be solved over night you know? how? Policing. More police will resolve the problem of Chicago, more enforcement of the EXISTENT laws will fix the problem of Chicago. But as with Baltimore and recently NYC, its politicians are not interested. That's why the law abiding citizens of these cities are hurt by this, because they have the most strict gun laws yet policing sucks.


Getting colder, not warmer. Way way way out of your depth here. Improved policing is but one of about ten required steps.


Based on your previous response, your “solution” is exactly what the government has done for 60 years, pour money, elect Democrat politicians and creat laws that the same politicians dont want.


Wrong. That isn’t even close to what I said. And mayors from both parties have presided over police corruption and lack of investment in the right areas. Urban poverty has no magic partisan wand to be waved.
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 438
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:06 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:

Recipe to continue beliving government “programs” will resolve anything, but allow mayhem continue and blame the second ammendment.


And you think private companies generally give one iota of a second thought about how what they do affects people? Yeah right. It's self interest and shareholder interest. Government are answerable to you, the electors. They don't do something right, you vote them out. This obsession in the US with government not being able to do something to fix problems is just bizzare. Instead you do nothing because one side thinks government can't organise anything / free enterprise will fix everything. Sometimes it doesn't, shouldn't and can't. It isn't true in almost anywhere else in the western world. I think you're electing the wrong people.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23889
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:15 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Chicago's mass shooting problem can be solved over night you know? how? Policing. More police will resolve the problem of Chicago, more enforcement of the EXISTENT laws will fix the problem of Chicago. But as with Baltimore and recently NYC, its politicians are not interested. That's why the law abiding citizens of these cities are hurt by this, because they have the most strict gun laws yet policing sucks.


Getting colder, not warmer. Way way way out of your depth here. Improved policing is but one of about ten required steps.


Based on your previous response, your “solution” is exactly what the government has done for 60 years, pour money, elect Democrat politicians and creat laws that the same politicians dont want enforced.

Recipe to continue beliving government “programs” will resolve anything, but allow mayhem continue and blame the second ammendment.


Corporations do not make laws. We The People make laws. Unfortunately, corporations bankroll Congress. However, one thing that We The People are fed up with is gun culture and putting gun laws ahead of life.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... ince-2017/

Corporations are not going to give us affordable health care. Corporations are not going to give us affordable housing. Corporations are not going to give us affordable education. Corporations controlling government does not work. This has been proven over the past 40 years. It is time that We The People took back our government from these right wing oligarchs. Stop the senseless killing, stop the violence against minorities, stop corporations from controlling Congress.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1397
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:25 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Getting colder, not warmer. Way way way out of your depth here. Improved policing is but one of about ten required steps.


Based on your previous response, your “solution” is exactly what the government has done for 60 years, pour money, elect Democrat politicians and creat laws that the same politicians dont want.


Wrong. That isn’t even close to what I said. And mayors from both parties have presided over police corruption and lack of investment in the right areas. Urban poverty has no magic partisan wand to be waved.


This was what you said:

US for five decades because we are unwilling to make the changes to funding, community, and metropolitan management that would facilitate meaningful change


You are telling me, keep electing Democrat politicians to continue spending billions on programs and such, since it will solve these problems. We debated on the other thread about the consequences of the 'war on poverty'. Pouring money into this won't solve the problem. Its more complex than that.

NYC was a hellhole till Giuliani came in, he was a Republican, he took down the Democrat establishment there, made it a wonderful city till Diblasio came in. I say, elect Republicans and enforce the law.

Democrats are bought by the public sector unions which fund them, and then are accountable to them (public schools are a huge cause too), and won't enforce the law because they will be accused of racism. Then the result is what we see on the big cities, LA, NY, Chicago, Baltimore, etc. These are the cities that drive the murder rates, and mass shootings figures high, and make the US look the way it is. It is not because the US has the 2nd amendment. This has existed for hundreds of years, the problem is much recent, and nothing to do with your right to keep and bear arms.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15701
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:32 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Based on your previous response, your “solution” is exactly what the government has done for 60 years, pour money, elect Democrat politicians and creat laws that the same politicians dont want.


Wrong. That isn’t even close to what I said. And mayors from both parties have presided over police corruption and lack of investment in the right areas. Urban poverty has no magic partisan wand to be waved.


This was what you said:

US for five decades because we are unwilling to make the changes to funding, community, and metropolitan management that would facilitate meaningful change


You are telling me, keep electing Democrat politicians to continue spending billions on programs and such, since it will solve these problems. We debated on the other thread about the consequences of the 'war on poverty'. Pouring money into this won't solve the problem. Its more complex than that.

NYC was a hellhole till Giuliani came in, he was a Republican, he took down the Democrat establishment there, made it a wonderful city till Diblasio came in. I say, elect Republicans and enforce the law.

Democrats are bought by the public sector unions which fund them, and then are accountable to them (public schools are a huge cause too), and won't enforce the law because they will be accused of racism. Then the result is what we see on the big cities, LA, NY, Chicago, Baltimore, etc. These are the cities that drive the murder rates, and mass shootings figures high, and make the US look the way it is. It is not because the US has the 2nd amendment. This has existed for hundreds of years, the problem is much recent, and nothing to do with your right to keep and bear arms.


I said ‘management’ - not politicians or Democrats. It’s not my job to read for you.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:37 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Based on your previous response, your “solution” is exactly what the government has done for 60 years, pour money, elect Democrat politicians and creat laws that the same politicians dont want.


Wrong. That isn’t even close to what I said. And mayors from both parties have presided over police corruption and lack of investment in the right areas. Urban poverty has no magic partisan wand to be waved.


This was what you said:

US for five decades because we are unwilling to make the changes to funding, community, and metropolitan management that would facilitate meaningful change


You are telling me, keep electing Democrat politicians to continue spending billions on programs and such, since it will solve these problems. We debated on the other thread about the consequences of the 'war on poverty'. Pouring money into this won't solve the problem. Its more complex than that.

NYC was a hellhole till Giuliani came in, he was a Republican, he took down the Democrat establishment there, made it a wonderful city till Diblasio came in. I say, elect Republicans and enforce the law.

Democrats are bought by the public sector unions which fund them, and then are accountable to them (public schools are a huge cause too), and won't enforce the law because they will be accused of racism. Then the result is what we see on the big cities, LA, NY, Chicago, Baltimore, etc. These are the cities that drive the murder rates, and mass shootings figures high, and make the US look the way it is. It is not because the US has the 2nd amendment. This has existed for hundreds of years, the problem is much recent, and nothing to do with your right to keep and bear arms.

None of this is remotely true but you've made it clear facts will not get in the way of your feelings.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 20089
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:53 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:

If the only guns in Chicago were pistols... would the murder rate be any different??

Some nations require every household to have a gun and ammo. It's called a level playing field.


Which ones?.


Switzerland for one..

https://www.businessinsider.com/switzer ... ths-2018-2


I didn't see where in that article it says that "every household is required to have a gun and ammo". Can you help?

But I did see where it said "Switzerland still has one of the highest rates of gun violence in Europe". :scratchchin:
 
johns624
Posts: 3992
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:05 pm

Face it, the only reason many care about mass shootings is that they might happen in their neighborhood. Whatever happens to "those people" in the ghetto is really of no concern to them. They may preach about it, but they don't want to get their hands dirty.
 
User avatar
SQ22
Moderator
Posts: 2343
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:29 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:12 pm

Please keep this thread on topic and remember to provide links to your sources when stating facts.
 
bennett123
Posts: 10865
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:34 pm

scbriml wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
bennett123 wrote:

Which ones?.


Switzerland for one..

https://www.businessinsider.com/switzer ... ths-2018-2


I didn't see where in that article it says that "every household is required to have a gun and ammo". Can you help?

But I did see where it said "Switzerland still has one of the highest rates of gun violence in Europe". :scratchchin:


Did you also see that most of them are suicides?.
 
JJJ
Posts: 4108
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:58 pm

bennett123 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:


I didn't see where in that article it says that "every household is required to have a gun and ammo". Can you help?

But I did see where it said "Switzerland still has one of the highest rates of gun violence in Europe". :scratchchin:


Did you also see that most of them are suicides?.


Did you see that both suicide rate and murder rate went down when stricter Federal permit laws were enacted?

Here's an article from a US PoV on Swiss gun laws and why they're in no way comparable to the ones in the States.

https://www.businessinsider.com/switzer ... and-too-11
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 1207
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:59 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Mass Shootings and Suicide are still gun deaths, and in the case of Mass Shootings,. They are on a rise that correlates with AR style sales.

Take gang-related shootings (most of which are considered mas shootings) out of the equation and it doesn't support your portrayal. The rise of AR style gun sales and the increase in gun-related deaths is largely coincidental.

Citation? Why would you “take them out”? I thought all lives mattered?

Don’t bother—we all know why the NRA and conservatives don’t care about “inner city” *wink wink* lives.

N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:

How many parts of the Constitution have evolved over the years but, somehow 2A has remained the same? The Founding Fathers, slave owners, had only single shot rifles. Not this 30 to 90 rounds a minute we have today. But, we have to live by ONLY the last four words because reasons.


They also didn't have computers, or televisions, or radios, yet free speech still applies to those methods of communication.

Free speech's meaning has not changed because of technology. The 2nd Amendment's meaning has changed completely.


"The right to bear arms is because that's the last form of defense against tyranny.... Not to hunt. It's to protect yourself from the police."
-Ice T, 2012
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15701
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:08 am

Wise words here from the center - in a way, all of us are standing in the way of gun violence solutions. Always interested in what SE has to say.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/videos/opinions ... ssion=true
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 2676
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:19 am

johns624 wrote:
Face it, the only reason many care about mass shootings is that they might happen in their neighborhood. Whatever happens to "those people" in the ghetto is really of no concern to them. They may preach about it, but they don't want to get their hands dirty.


That's exactly why the Parkland kids have so much fame, and no victims of gun violence in poor neighborhoods have anywhere near that visibility.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15701
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:24 am

Pellegrine wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Face it, the only reason many care about mass shootings is that they might happen in their neighborhood. Whatever happens to "those people" in the ghetto is really of no concern to them. They may preach about it, but they don't want to get their hands dirty.


That's exactly why the Parkland kids have so much fame, and no victims of gun violence in poor neighborhoods have anywhere near that visibility.


True - and that’s yet another reason the timebound cries of ‘but Chicago!’ smell so foul.
 
Elkadad313
Posts: 170
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:55 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:48 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Face it, the only reason many care about mass shootings is that they might happen in their neighborhood. Whatever happens to "those people" in the ghetto is really of no concern to them. They may preach about it, but they don't want to get their hands dirty.


That's exactly why the Parkland kids have so much fame, and no victims of gun violence in poor neighborhoods have anywhere near that visibility.


True - and that’s yet another reason the timebound cries of ‘but Chicago!’ smell so foul.

I'll tellya what smells foul -- 4 Chicago cops shot in the last two weeks, all in the hood. The shooters will not be held accountable, though, because they had not had the benefit of a mental health assessment. Therefore, nobody knew of their propensity to shoot at police officers. Mandatory $40 psychiatric evaluations for everyone!
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15701
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:52 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:

That's exactly why the Parkland kids have so much fame, and no victims of gun violence in poor neighborhoods have anywhere near that visibility.


True - and that’s yet another reason the timebound cries of ‘but Chicago!’ smell so foul.

I'll tellya what smells foul -- 4 Chicago cops shot in the last two weeks, all in the hood. The shooters will not be held accountable, though, because they had not had the benefit of a mental health assessment. Therefore, nobody knew of their propensity to shoot at police officers. Mandatory $40 psychiatric evaluations for everyone!


Pretty glib for a slow motion tragedy over decades. You’re proving the point in the video I posted a couple posts up.
 
Elkadad313
Posts: 170
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:55 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:41 am

Aaron747 wrote:

Pretty glib for a slow motion tragedy over decades. You’re proving the point in the video I posted a couple posts up.

Essentially, SE Cupp advocates ‘more listening.’ A very transformational concept. Why hasn't someone thought of this during the decades this tragedy has been developing? OK, finally, we now have a solution: everyone begin listening so we can find out why the shooting of 4 Chicago cops in 12 days isn't covered by the MSM, wait … :roll:
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15701
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:52 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Pretty glib for a slow motion tragedy over decades. You’re proving the point in the video I posted a couple posts up.

Essentially, SE Cupp advocates ‘more listening.’ A very transformational concept. Why hasn't someone thought of this during the decades this tragedy has been developing? OK, finally, we now have a solution: everyone begin listening so we can find out why the shooting of 4 Chicago cops in 12 days isn't covered by the MSM, wait … :roll:


She specifically called out whataboutism played by major interests in the debate and correctly noted that doesn't fix a damn thing. Like 'but but Chicago!'. But you know, women are better at communication and all that jazz you may not agree with. :sarcastic:
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23889
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:02 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
You are telling me, keep electing Democrat politicians to continue spending billions on programs and such, since it will solve these problems. We debated on the other thread about the consequences of the 'war on poverty'. Pouring money into this won't solve the problem. Its more complex than that.


First, it is Democratic. There literally is no democrat party. Look it up.

Second, instead of Republicans suing and taking away the second they see an opportunity, maybe let these programs work. Recall that ACA was hated and demonized and sued at every turn by Republicans even though, once people actually used it, we liked it. Same with the Voting Rights Act.

Republicans are whining and crying for bipartisanship but refuse to do it.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13836
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:43 pm

More information on the suspect and his background checks. It came back clear.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/26/us/bould ... index.html

Regarding the firearm in question, a background check of the purchaser was conducted as required by Colorado law and approval for the sale was provided by the Colorado Bureau of Investigation."
Nothing in the federal system would have prevented Alissa from passing a background check and buying a firearm, a law enforcement source had previously told CNN.
The suspect pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor count of third-degree assault in 2018 after attacking a high school classmate one year earlier, according to court documents and a police report. He was sentenced to one year probation, 48 hours of community service and anger response treatment, court documents said.


This shows the glaring holes in our system .
 
extender
Posts: 951
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:07 pm

You see, it is the system, not the gun...
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13836
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:14 pm

extender wrote:
You see, it is the system, not the gun...



The system includes guns. But other than that you have a perfect misunderstanding of how ten people were murdered.
 
extender
Posts: 951
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:06 pm

I have a perfect understanding of how it happened. A nut job when and bought a gun and killed people. You don't seem to understand that people that want to commit mayhem, have no regards for the law.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15701
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:22 pm

extender wrote:
I have a perfect understanding of how it happened. A nut job when and bought a gun and killed people. You don't seem to understand that people that want to commit mayhem, have no regards for the law.


Ummm yeah except for the part where this psycho bought a legit one instead of from the trunk of a dealer in a back alley. :liar:
 
johns624
Posts: 3992
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:19 am

Aaron747 wrote:
extender wrote:
I have a perfect understanding of how it happened. A nut job when and bought a gun and killed people. You don't seem to understand that people that want to commit mayhem, have no regards for the law.


Ummm yeah except for the part where this psycho bought a legit one instead of from the trunk of a dealer in a back alley. :liar:
The background check system worked like it was supposed to. His family failed their son. He even borrowed his brother's car to drive to the store. It sounds like the whole family was disfunctional.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15701
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:23 am

johns624 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
extender wrote:
I have a perfect understanding of how it happened. A nut job when and bought a gun and killed people. You don't seem to understand that people that want to commit mayhem, have no regards for the law.


Ummm yeah except for the part where this psycho bought a legit one instead of from the trunk of a dealer in a back alley. :liar:
The background check system worked like it was supposed to. His family failed their son. He even borrowed his brother's car to drive to the store. It sounds like the whole family was disfunctional.


With you on that part - was referring to the 'no regard for law' claim. That would involve obtaining a firearm illegally.
 
petertenthije
Posts: 4283
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:43 am

johns624 wrote:
The background check system worked like it was supposed to. His family failed their son.

Perhaps so, but medical bills are well known to put families into bankruptcy, thus ruining Iives. With that in mind it is perhaps understandable that people are not flagged for psych evaluation at the first sign of problems. Psych problems might also disqualify you from certain jobs, making the (financial) burden even worse.

You’d need to redesign the healthcare system to remove these barriers. We all know how anything like that goes down.
 
johns624
Posts: 3992
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:22 am

petertenthije wrote:
johns624 wrote:
The background check system worked like it was supposed to. His family failed their son.

Perhaps so, but medical bills are well known to put families into bankruptcy, thus ruining Iives. With that in mind it is perhaps understandable that people are not flagged for psych evaluation at the first sign of problems. Psych problems might also disqualify you from certain jobs, making the (financial) burden even worse.

You’d need to redesign the healthcare system to remove these barriers. We all know how anything like that goes down.

There are two components to the mental health issue and the first one is relatively cheap. If his family had petitioned the court to have an involuntary 72 hour assessment and they found him to be a threat to himself or others, he would've been flagged. He wouldn't be able to purchase a firearm. This requires hardly any money, just willpower. Long term treatment may be expensive, but many people do it. I've read that his family owned a restaurant and lived in an upper middle class neighborhood, so they had some means. As far as psych problems causing job issues, you're worrying too much about him and not enough about the people that he murdered.
 
Elkadad313
Posts: 170
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:55 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:51 am

johns624 wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
johns624 wrote:
The background check system worked like it was supposed to. His family failed their son.

Perhaps so, but medical bills are well known to put families into bankruptcy, thus ruining Iives. With that in mind it is perhaps understandable that people are not flagged for psych evaluation at the first sign of problems. Psych problems might also disqualify you from certain jobs, making the (financial) burden even worse.

You’d need to redesign the healthcare system to remove these barriers. We all know how anything like that goes down.

There are two components to the mental health issue and the first one is relatively cheap. If his family had petitioned the court to have an involuntary 72 hour assessment and they found him to be a threat to himself or others, he would've been flagged. He wouldn't be able to purchase a firearm. This requires hardly any money, just willpower. Long term treatment may be expensive, but many people do it. I've read that his family owned a restaurant and lived in an upper middle class neighborhood, so they had some means. As far as psych problems causing job issues, you're worrying too much about him and not enough about the people that he murdered.

There are two components to the mental health issue and the first one is relatively cheap. If his family had petitioned the court to have an involuntary 72 hour assessment and they found him to be a threat to himself or others, he would've been flagged. He wouldn't be able to purchase a firearm. This requires hardly any money, just willpower. Long term treatment may be expensive, but many people do it. I've read that his family owned a restaurant and lived in an upper middle class neighborhood, so they had some means. As far as psych problems causing job issues, you're worrying too much about him and not enough about the people that he murdered.

In many cases it's not a monetary issue, and I think there are many instances where the family knows there’s a problem and is hesitant to take action out of fear of recrimination. If the person in question is known to have a bad temper or other self-control issues, it’s possible he would lose it, grab a kitchen knife, and who knows?

It’s a classic no-win dilemma for many families/friends who want to do the right thing but are afraid to. Instead, they do nothing and ‘hope’ he just calms down.
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 2676
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:11 am

Two more mass shootings Friday night:

Virginia Beach, VA - 10 shot, 2 dead (I think that includes the perpetrator)
https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/vi ... -presence/

Philadelphia, PA - 7 shot
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2021/ ... olice-say/

And on Wednesday a 22yo walked into a Publix grocery store in Atlanta, GA with 4 handguns, an assault rifle, and a shotgun with ammo for all of them.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ma ... y-n1262016
 
User avatar
CitizenJustin
Posts: 868
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:12 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter

Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:44 am

ltbewr wrote:
Whether it is a mass shooting like in Boulder, or the too many every weekend in Chicago, the amounts of gun murder is a deep cultural problem in the USA. Far too often, the possession and use of a gun is about fear, power and about control of one over others no matter if a robber, a cop or mass murderer. We in the USA can't control who can access guns nor the guns themselves due to our toxic culture and politics.

In the next few days, well will learn of the perverse excuses why the shooter chose to take this action, the background lives of the murder victims, see the site of the store become a shrine with flowers and other items left to memorialize the victims. Then there are those in and near the store who didn't get shot but will suffer lifelong psychological trauma from being close to it, terrorized into hiding or playing dead and escape. Likely the store will be shut down for months for investigations, maybe even permanently shut down.

I currently work with people or who have retired at my time of employment there who were in or around WTC 1 when hit by an airplane. I worked with a woman who's father was killed in a mass shooting event in the early 1990's. I know of someone who caused a death in a gun accident. A distant relative during the 1930's took their life with a gun, their body discovered by one of my uncles. They all have traumas from fear of being trapped in an elevator to this day, the loss of a loved one seeing the blood of the dead.

There is the deep frustration that we cannot deal with the access and power of the guns themselves or properly funded mental health needs due to politician's fears of losing their next election. We glorify gun possession and use, in video games, in our entertainment media. 'If it bleeds, it leads' giving attention to those that kill by guns that may encourage their use. Even during the Pandemic, murder by guns rates have kept up or increased from prior year levels. Marches are useless. Too many on the 'conservative' news media will be more concerned with losing access to guns than of the victims of use of them. I am tired of it. I want it to end. I want the culture to change so one doesn't mean being more worried about being dead from being in school, at a workplace, shopping for groceries, by a F'ed up gunman that from Covid-19.



“ I am tired of it. I want it to end”

A lot of us are. There are so many great proposals that would at least lower gun violence but as long as the allergic to facts or anything that makes sense GOP stands we’re screwed. What sickens me is when these gun nuts say freedom comes with a cost. The virtual open season on schoolchildren is the cost of maintaining our right to be an insecure manchild allowed to carry in the open and feel like a MAN. Then they’ll often times complain about the sisification of men,7These people are not only delusional they’re dangerous.
P
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 20089
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:46 am

Pellegrine wrote:
And on Wednesday a 22yo walked into a Publix grocery store in Atlanta, GA with 4 handguns, an assault rifle, and a shotgun with ammo for all of them.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ma ... y-n1262016


I've shopped in Publix in Florida, but never felt like I needed to be armed! :shock:
 
N583JB
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:12 am

Pellegrine wrote:
Two more mass shootings Friday night:

Virginia Beach, VA - 10 shot, 2 dead (I think that includes the perpetrator)
https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/vi ... -presence/

Philadelphia, PA - 7 shot
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2021/ ... olice-say/

And on Wednesday a 22yo walked into a Publix grocery store in Atlanta, GA with 4 handguns, an assault rifle, and a shotgun with ammo for all of them.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ma ... y-n1262016


The one in Philly sounds like gang violence, as does the one in Virginia Beach. They will probably be largely ignored by the media once the perpetrators are identified. Also, hard to push for gun control if the shooters were already banned from owning guns.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15701
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:47 am

N583JB wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
Two more mass shootings Friday night:

Virginia Beach, VA - 10 shot, 2 dead (I think that includes the perpetrator)
https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/vi ... -presence/

Philadelphia, PA - 7 shot
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2021/ ... olice-say/

And on Wednesday a 22yo walked into a Publix grocery store in Atlanta, GA with 4 handguns, an assault rifle, and a shotgun with ammo for all of them.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ma ... y-n1262016


The one in Philly sounds like gang violence, as does the one in Virginia Beach. They will probably be largely ignored by the media once the perpetrators are identified. Also, hard to push for gun control if the shooters were already banned from owning guns.


Yet you're responding to a post in which said shootings were. reported. by. media. :hypnotized:
 
N583JB
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:27 am

Aaron747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
Two more mass shootings Friday night:

Virginia Beach, VA - 10 shot, 2 dead (I think that includes the perpetrator)
https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/vi ... -presence/

Philadelphia, PA - 7 shot
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2021/ ... olice-say/

And on Wednesday a 22yo walked into a Publix grocery store in Atlanta, GA with 4 handguns, an assault rifle, and a shotgun with ammo for all of them.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ma ... y-n1262016


The one in Philly sounds like gang violence, as does the one in Virginia Beach. They will probably be largely ignored by the media once the perpetrators are identified. Also, hard to push for gun control if the shooters were already banned from owning guns.


Yet you're responding to a post in which said shootings were. reported. by. media. :hypnotized:


The first one by a local affiliate. If we see these shootings plastered all over national websites for the next week you'll have a point.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15701
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:19 pm

N583JB wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:

The one in Philly sounds like gang violence, as does the one in Virginia Beach. They will probably be largely ignored by the media once the perpetrators are identified. Also, hard to push for gun control if the shooters were already banned from owning guns.


Yet you're responding to a post in which said shootings were. reported. by. media. :hypnotized:


The first one by a local affiliate. If we see these shootings plastered all over national websites for the next week you'll have a point.


Mmmm as stated many times in this thread, gang shootings do not generally get national attention because they are fairly commonplace. I'll use the same analogy from page 2 or 3 with another poster - local media will report bad car accidents, but they don't make national news. Such accidents only go national if they are more rare, such as someone plowing into schoolkids.
 
N583JB
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:21 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Yet you're responding to a post in which said shootings were. reported. by. media. :hypnotized:


The first one by a local affiliate. If we see these shootings plastered all over national websites for the next week you'll have a point.


Mmmm as stated many times in this thread, gang shootings do not generally get national attention because they are fairly commonplace. I'll use the same analogy from page 2 or 3 with another poster - local media will report bad car accidents, but they don't make national news. Such accidents only go national if they are more rare, such as someone plowing into schoolkids.


True. The Va Beach shooting is already national news, but I doubt it will stay that way if local rumors are confirmed. There's no agenda to push with a random gang shooting.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15701
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:24 pm

N583JB wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:

The first one by a local affiliate. If we see these shootings plastered all over national websites for the next week you'll have a point.


Mmmm as stated many times in this thread, gang shootings do not generally get national attention because they are fairly commonplace. I'll use the same analogy from page 2 or 3 with another poster - local media will report bad car accidents, but they don't make national news. Such accidents only go national if they are more rare, such as someone plowing into schoolkids.


True. The Va Beach shooting is already national news, but I doubt it will stay that way if local rumors are confirmed. There's no agenda to push with a random gang shooting.


Any serious shooting will get a mention in the 2-3 days after Boulder, this happens with every major incident, just like media fixating on every IFSD after an incident like UA328. This ain't agenda-driven rocket science, it's clearly observable reporting and producer prioritization patterns.
 
Elkadad313
Posts: 170
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:55 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:10 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Mmmm as stated many times in this thread, gang shootings do not generally get national attention because they are fairly commonplace. I'll use the same analogy from page 2 or 3 with another poster - local media will report bad car accidents, but they don't make national news. Such accidents only go national if they are more rare, such as someone plowing into schoolkids.


True. The Va Beach shooting is already national news, but I doubt it will stay that way if local rumors are confirmed. There's no agenda to push with a random gang shooting.


Any serious shooting will get a mention in the 2-3 days after Boulder, this happens with every major incident, just like media fixating on every IFSD after an incident like UA328. This ain't agenda-driven rocket science, it's clearly observable reporting and producer prioritization patterns.

But the media does not do in-depth, prioritized reporting/research (as done for Atlanta & Boulder) into the cause of these 'local' shootings, which represent 99.6% of the problem.
 
User avatar
CitizenJustin
Posts: 868
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:12 am

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:28 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Wait, the same way people are 'concerned' about a mass shooting only when it happens outside of Chicago?

If people truly cared about any lives at all, outrage and concern would be in display every day in Chicago where mass shootings occur daily.


As already said in this thread, shootings are unfortunately a regular occurrence on Chicago's south side, so they don't get media attention beyond local Chicago news. Shootings are more rare in malls, schools, and supermarkets, so those get mass coverage. There's a difference as well between gang-on-gang fatalities and citizens just doing their daily shopping becoming victims.

Urban poverty has not been successfully resolved in the US for five decades because we are unwilling to make the changes to funding, community, and metropolitan management that would facilitate meaningful change. The shootings in Chicago are generally a symptom of that reality.


Chicago's mass shooting problem can be solved over night you know? how? Policing. More police will resolve the problem of Chicago, more enforcement of the EXISTENT laws will fix the problem of Chicago. But as with Baltimore and recently NYC, its politicians are not interested. That's why the law abiding citizens of these cities are hurt by this, because they have the most strict gun laws yet policing sucks.

And BTW, not only gang members die from the mass shootings in Chicago, innocent children do die. https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shootin ... d/6289523/ And if we truly "cared" about all lives, we would care about children too, who die weekly on shootings in Chicago.

Anyways, lets feel outraged about SOME killings and shootings, just ignore the ones that occur daily.

The solution is not more gun laws, the same way illegal drugs come to the US, the same way they would if guns are banned in this country, and killings will continue.




Crime in Chicago has drastically decreased since the 90’s. In fact overall violent crime is down in most major cities. You won’t hear that on the news though and of course people just believe it without actually looking up the stats themselves. All the fear mongering from the right is getting old. They constantly act like we’re on the precipice of utter destruction when the truth is very different. I guess people won’t vote for them unless they’re whipping them up and scaring the hell out of them over some made up problem.
 
N583JB
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Ten murdered in Boulder, CO by shooter 3/22

Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:34 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

As already said in this thread, shootings are unfortunately a regular occurrence on Chicago's south side, so they don't get media attention beyond local Chicago news. Shootings are more rare in malls, schools, and supermarkets, so those get mass coverage. There's a difference as well between gang-on-gang fatalities and citizens just doing their daily shopping becoming victims.

Urban poverty has not been successfully resolved in the US for five decades because we are unwilling to make the changes to funding, community, and metropolitan management that would facilitate meaningful change. The shootings in Chicago are generally a symptom of that reality.


Chicago's mass shooting problem can be solved over night you know? how? Policing. More police will resolve the problem of Chicago, more enforcement of the EXISTENT laws will fix the problem of Chicago. But as with Baltimore and recently NYC, its politicians are not interested. That's why the law abiding citizens of these cities are hurt by this, because they have the most strict gun laws yet policing sucks.

And BTW, not only gang members die from the mass shootings in Chicago, innocent children do die. https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shootin ... d/6289523/ And if we truly "cared" about all lives, we would care about children too, who die weekly on shootings in Chicago.

Anyways, lets feel outraged about SOME killings and shootings, just ignore the ones that occur daily.

The solution is not more gun laws, the same way illegal drugs come to the US, the same way they would if guns are banned in this country, and killings will continue.




Crime in Chicago has drastically decreased since the 90’s. In fact overall violent crime is down in most major cities. You won’t hear that on the news though and of course people just believe it without actually looking up the stats themselves. All the fear mongering from the right is getting old. They constantly act like we’re on the precipice of utter destruction when the truth is very different. I guess people won’t vote for them unless they’re whipping them up and scaring the hell out of them over some made up problem.


Violent crime skyrocketed across the country in 2020. But, if crime has been dropping for nearly 30 years now, I suppose new gun legislation isn't needed...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aesma, Dieuwer, jfklganyc, Revelation, TheF15Ace and 19 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos