Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
Aaron747
Topic Author
Posts: 14478
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:17 pm

LNCS0930 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
LNCS0930 wrote:

MLB in one day managed to outdo the dumbness of all the dumb things the NBA and NFL combined have ever done. That’s quite an accomplishment there


Oh I think you’ll find companies and fans across the land are behind the decision.


I highly doubt that based off Twitter at the moment


Twitter is hardly the accurate arbiter of sentiment. For all the rancor on the MLB comments, there are just as many ridiculing Sen. Rubio’s statement about MLB.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Topic Author
Posts: 14478
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:19 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
LNCS0930 wrote:
SL1200MK2 wrote:
Looks like the MLB took some decisive action and moved the All Star Game from the state. Good for them.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/MLB ... 073086.php


MLB in one day managed to outdo the dumbness of all the dumb things the NBA and NFL combined have ever done. That’s quite an accomplishment there


The left has managed to politicize everything in this country, this is the result.

They were so concerned about mis information, there has been so much of that with this law.

Yet these are the people who have no issue at all dealing with China, who doesnt even celebrate free elections, have concentration camps for ethinc minorities and last year let a virus that has killed millions of people spread.

But the “problem” is Georgia folks.


Companies have a right to speak up on the values they support, no? Is it ‘misinformation’ to say the franchise should be expanded, not more limited?

No idea how China could possibly be connected to this issue - sounds like a massive conflationary stretch to me. :scratchchin:
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
FGITD
Posts: 1528
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:47 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
LNCS0930 wrote:

MLB in one day managed to outdo the dumbness of all the dumb things the NBA and NFL combined have ever done. That’s quite an accomplishment there


The left has managed to politicize everything in this country, this is the result.

They were so concerned about mis information, there has been so much of that with this law.

Yet these are the people who have no issue at all dealing with China, who doesnt even celebrate free elections, have concentration camps for ethinc minorities and last year let a virus that has killed millions of people spread.

But the “problem” is Georgia folks.


Companies have a right to speak up on the values they support, no? Is it ‘misinformation’ to say the franchise should be expanded, not more limited?

No idea how China could possibly be connected to this issue - sounds like a massive conflationary stretch to me. :scratchchin:


Business doesn’t have to bow down to your feelings! Followed by wahhhhhh they took away our baseball game.


It’s just such a deflective argument.

They cry “America first, make America Great Again!”

Then some entity does something they don’t like and it becomes “yea well do you even care about the struggle and strife of ethnic groups in China? How tone deaf can you be to talk baseball and not even care about Syrians!”

What was it they touted in 2016? Elections have consequences?
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Topic Author
Posts: 14478
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:49 pm

FGITD wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

The left has managed to politicize everything in this country, this is the result.

They were so concerned about mis information, there has been so much of that with this law.

Yet these are the people who have no issue at all dealing with China, who doesnt even celebrate free elections, have concentration camps for ethinc minorities and last year let a virus that has killed millions of people spread.

But the “problem” is Georgia folks.


Companies have a right to speak up on the values they support, no? Is it ‘misinformation’ to say the franchise should be expanded, not more limited?

No idea how China could possibly be connected to this issue - sounds like a massive conflationary stretch to me. :scratchchin:


Business doesn’t have to bow down to your feelings! Followed by wahhhhhh they took away our baseball game.


It’s just such a deflective argument.

They cry “America first, make America Great Again!”

Then some entity does something they don’t like and it becomes “yea well do you even care about the struggle and strife of ethnic groups in China? How tone deaf can you be to talk baseball and not even care about Syrians!”

What was it they touted in 2016? Elections have consequences?


Yup - and they want to bandy about China when the last administration was bending over backwards for Saudi. The mind boggles
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
SL1200MK2
Posts: 186
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:00 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:56 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
LNCS0930 wrote:
SL1200MK2 wrote:
Looks like the MLB took some decisive action and moved the All Star Game from the state. Good for them.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/MLB ... 073086.php


MLB in one day managed to outdo the dumbness of all the dumb things the NBA and NFL combined have ever done. That’s quite an accomplishment there


The left has managed to politicize everything in this country, this is the result.

They were so concerned about mis information, there has been so much of that with this law.

Yet these are the people who have no issue at all dealing with China, who doesnt even celebrate free elections, have concentration camps for ethinc minorities and last year let a virus that has killed millions of people spread.

But the “problem” is Georgia folks.


Wait, are you bringing China into this? Now conservatives care about ethnic minorities, but only in China?
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Topic Author
Posts: 14478
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:01 pm

SL1200MK2 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
LNCS0930 wrote:

MLB in one day managed to outdo the dumbness of all the dumb things the NBA and NFL combined have ever done. That’s quite an accomplishment there


The left has managed to politicize everything in this country, this is the result.

They were so concerned about mis information, there has been so much of that with this law.

Yet these are the people who have no issue at all dealing with China, who doesnt even celebrate free elections, have concentration camps for ethinc minorities and last year let a virus that has killed millions of people spread.

But the “problem” is Georgia folks.


Wait, are you bringing China into this? Now conservatives care about ethnic minorities, but only in China?


No need for concern at home, because everyone starts out with the same equal shot to make it :sarcastic:
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
luckyone
Posts: 3849
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:25 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
LNCS0930 wrote:

MLB in one day managed to outdo the dumbness of all the dumb things the NBA and NFL combined have ever done. That’s quite an accomplishment there


The left has managed to politicize everything in this country, this is the result.

They were so concerned about mis information, there has been so much of that with this law.

Yet these are the people who have no issue at all dealing with China, who doesnt even celebrate free elections, have concentration camps for ethinc minorities and last year let a virus that has killed millions of people spread.

But the “problem” is Georgia folks.


Companies have a right to speak up on the values they support, no? Is it ‘misinformation’ to say the franchise should be expanded, not more limited?

No idea how China could possibly be connected to this issue - sounds like a massive conflationary stretch to me. :scratchchin:

Can we also point out that for all his bluster, Trump&Co does a lot of business in China. His precious daughter holds Chinese trademarks. Ex President Trump pays more in Chinese taxes than he did in the US WHILE IN OFFICE. But do please lecture us on China :roll: .

Only a dense sycophant would not acknowledge that this law is a knee-jerk reaction to an embarrassing loss for Georgia Republicans in a state that has with few exceptions has been run by Republicans for the roughly the past twenty years. Until 2020 Georgia had not elected a Democrat for statewide office since the 1999 Gubernatorial election wherein Roy Barnes was elected Governor--former Yellow Dog Democratic Governor Zell Miller was APPOINTED Senator in 2000, but he filled a spot occupied by a Republican Senator. The election laws that directed the 2020 elections were passed by the GOP-controlled legislature, and they didn't see any need to alter them until things didn't go their way. There will always be some disparity between local and national politics, but the GOP of Trump is moving toward a blue collar populism that has never found a lot of footing in the South. Increased diversity and white collar growth from states that don't buy into the Dixieland Delight/"Southern by the Grace of God" fantasy sold by traditional state leaders will continue provide challenges for the Georgia GOP.
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1839
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:32 pm

MLB response:

"Major League Baseball fundamentally supports voting rights for all Americans and opposes restrictions to the ballot box," Manfred said. "In 2020, MLB became the first professional sports league to join the non-partisan Civic Alliance to help build a future in which everyone participates in shaping the United States. We proudly used our platform to encourage baseball fans and communities throughout our country to perform their civic duty and actively participate in the voting process. Fair access to voting continues to have our game's unwavering support."

Governor Kemp response:

"Today, Major League Baseball caved to fear, political opportunism, and liberal lies," said Georgia Gov. Kemp said in response. "Georgians - and all Americans - should fully understand what the MLB's knee-jerk decision means: cancel culture and woke political activists are coming for every aspect of your life, sports included. If the left doesn't agree with you, facts and the truth do not matter."

"This attack on our state is the direct result of repeated lies from Joe Biden and Stacey Abrams about a bill that expands access to the ballot box and ensures the integrity of our elections," Kemp added. "I will not back down. Georgians will not be bullied. We will continue to stand up for secure, accessible, fair elections. Earlier today, I spoke with the leadership of the Atlanta Braves who informed me they do not support the MLB's decision."


Atlanta Braves' response:

"This was neither our decision, nor our recommendation and we are saddened that fans will not be able to see this event in our city. The Braves organization will continue to stress the importance of equal voting opportunities and we had hoped our city could use this event as a platform to enhance the discussion. Our city has always been known as a uniter in divided times and we will miss the opportunity to address issues that are important to our community. Unfortunately, businesses, employees, and fans in Georgia are the victims of this decision."

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/04/02/maj ... g-law.html

(Source: CNBC)
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Topic Author
Posts: 14478
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:43 pm

Microsoft adding its name to the growing list of condemnations:

https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/ge ... gainst-it/
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
LNCS0930
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:17 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:01 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Microsoft adding its name to the growing list of condemnations:

https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/ge ... gainst-it/


You act as if a company is going to risk being boycotted by saying they disagree with the move. I’m 90% sure no owners wanted this but due to advertisement money they had no choice but to cave
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Topic Author
Posts: 14478
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:07 pm

LNCS0930 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Microsoft adding its name to the growing list of condemnations:

https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/ge ... gainst-it/


You act as if a company is going to risk being boycotted by saying they disagree with the move. I’m 90% sure no owners wanted this but due to advertisement money they had no choice but to cave


Quite sure most owners are well aware of their home markets and fan demographics. Companies, on the other hand, oppose anything that would be a limiting influence. What people are mistaking for 'wokeness' in boardrooms is actually a profit-driven understanding that the broadest appeal possible is desired, and that means moving with the country, not keeping 1955 values intact. People engage in transactions with Home Depot or Microsoft because they have something they need, not because they're looking for friends.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
SoCalPilot
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:37 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:28 pm

I've never understood moving sports games because of stuff like this. What exactly does it achieve besides taking money away from a city that is heavily democrat and has one of the largest populations of black people in the country? Why does the rest of the state, who most likely supports the law, care?

It's kind of like when the NCAA boycotted Charlotte over the "bathroom bill" in North Carolina. Yeah good job, I'm sure all the conservatives in the surrounding counties who supported the bill were crying over all the revenue the liberal city of Charlotte lost.

If anything, all it does is further divide the country and strengthen the base of those who are for the law.

As for the law itself, how exactly does it limit access to the ballot box for minorities? By requiring ID? Something that most countries require when voting? Many of the things that this bill does are actually in line with what other states do, I'm really confused as to why people are upset about it. Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel as though this is one of the biggest misinformation campaigns in recent memory.
 
LNCS0930
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:17 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:45 pm

SoCalPilot wrote:
I've never understood moving sports games because of stuff like this. What exactly does it achieve besides taking money away from a city that is heavily democrat and has one of the largest populations of black people in the country? Why does the rest of the state, who most likely supports the law, care?

It's kind of like when the NCAA boycotted Charlotte over the "bathroom bill" in North Carolina. Yeah good job, I'm sure all the conservatives in the surrounding counties who supported the bill were crying over all the revenue the liberal city of Charlotte lost.

If anything, all it does is further divide the country and strengthen the base of those who are for the law.

As for the law itself, how exactly does it limit access to the ballot box for minorities? By requiring ID? Something that most countries require when voting? Many of the things that this bill does are actually in line with what other states do, I'm really confused as to why people are upset about it. Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel as though this is one of the biggest misinformation campaigns in recent memory.


I’m assuming players probably told owners and teams they wouldn’t attend. The league basically only cares about money at the end of the day. If advertisers started pulling out on top of big players not going and more advertisers pulling out as a result they’d have been sunk
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Topic Author
Posts: 14478
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:47 pm

SoCalPilot wrote:
As for the law itself, how exactly does it limit access to the ballot box for minorities? By requiring ID? Something that most countries require when voting? Many of the things that this bill does are actually in line with what other states do, I'm really confused as to why people are upset about it. Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel as though this is one of the biggest misinformation campaigns in recent memory.


This was addressed in the OP. Feel free to comment on the four points because they're definitely up for discussion.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23574
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:52 pm

SoCalPilot wrote:
I've never understood moving sports games because of stuff like this. What exactly does it achieve besides taking money away from a city that is heavily democrat and has one of the largest populations of black people in the country? Why does the rest of the state, who most likely supports the law, care?

It's kind of like when the NCAA boycotted Charlotte over the "bathroom bill" in North Carolina. Yeah good job, I'm sure all the conservatives in the surrounding counties who supported the bill were crying over all the revenue the liberal city of Charlotte lost.

If anything, all it does is further divide the country and strengthen the base of those who are for the law.

As for the law itself, how exactly does it limit access to the ballot box for minorities? By requiring ID? Something that most countries require when voting? Many of the things that this bill does are actually in line with what other states do, I'm really confused as to why people are upset about it. Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel as though this is one of the biggest misinformation campaigns in recent memory.


In addition to post number one

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/ ... escalating

As far as why should an entire state care, think about the tax revenue. I don't know what state taxes Georgia places on individuals (income or sales) but that would decline. Since that is a state program, those revenues would also be cut for rural areas. Also, tourism. Some people decide to venture outside the host city. In the case of MLB All Star Game, that would mostly be Savannah and Augusta. So, that revenue is gone. Even after the event, people still go because "I saw that on TV and want to see it in person" or "we had such a wonderful time when that event happened, we want to go again".

There was no voter fraud. States have voter ID laws. It's just a big deal when Republicans lose.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
luckyone
Posts: 3849
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:26 am

SoCalPilot wrote:
I've never understood moving sports games because of stuff like this. What exactly does it achieve besides taking money away from a city that is heavily democrat and has one of the largest populations of black people in the country? Why does the rest of the state, who most likely supports the law, care?

It's kind of like when the NCAA boycotted Charlotte over the "bathroom bill" in North Carolina. Yeah good job, I'm sure all the conservatives in the surrounding counties who supported the bill were crying over all the revenue the liberal city of Charlotte lost.

If anything, all it does is further divide the country and strengthen the base of those who are for the law.

As for the law itself, how exactly does it limit access to the ballot box for minorities? By requiring ID? Something that most countries require when voting? Many of the things that this bill does are actually in line with what other states do, I'm really confused as to why people are upset about it. Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel as though this is one of the biggest misinformation campaigns in recent memory.

If nothing else you should educate yourself to the fact that the Braves do not play in the City of Atlanta. The stadium they use is in an entirely different county that is much less black and much more suburban.
 
luckyone
Posts: 3849
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:42 am

seb146 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
I've never understood moving sports games because of stuff like this. What exactly does it achieve besides taking money away from a city that is heavily democrat and has one of the largest populations of black people in the country? Why does the rest of the state, who most likely supports the law, care?

It's kind of like when the NCAA boycotted Charlotte over the "bathroom bill" in North Carolina. Yeah good job, I'm sure all the conservatives in the surrounding counties who supported the bill were crying over all the revenue the liberal city of Charlotte lost.

If anything, all it does is further divide the country and strengthen the base of those who are for the law.

As for the law itself, how exactly does it limit access to the ballot box for minorities? By requiring ID? Something that most countries require when voting? Many of the things that this bill does are actually in line with what other states do, I'm really confused as to why people are upset about it. Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel as though this is one of the biggest misinformation campaigns in recent memory.


In addition to post number one

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/ ... escalating

As far as why should an entire state care, think about the tax revenue. I don't know what state taxes Georgia places on individuals (income or sales) but that would decline. Since that is a state program, those revenues would also be cut for rural areas. Also, tourism. Some people decide to venture outside the host city. In the case of MLB All Star Game, that would mostly be Savannah and Augusta. So, that revenue is gone. Even after the event, people still go because "I saw that on TV and want to see it in person" or "we had such a wonderful time when that event happened, we want to go again".

There was no voter fraud. States have voter ID laws. It's just a big deal when Republicans lose.

The State of Georgia taxes income above $7,000 at 5.75% (until last year it was 6%).
 
mjba257
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:21 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:07 am

SL1200MK2 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
LNCS0930 wrote:

MLB in one day managed to outdo the dumbness of all the dumb things the NBA and NFL combined have ever done. That’s quite an accomplishment there


The left has managed to politicize everything in this country, this is the result.

They were so concerned about mis information, there has been so much of that with this law.

Yet these are the people who have no issue at all dealing with China, who doesnt even celebrate free elections, have concentration camps for ethinc minorities and last year let a virus that has killed millions of people spread.

But the “problem” is Georgia folks.


Wait, are you bringing China into this? Now conservatives care about ethnic minorities, but only in China?


Because ethnic minorities in China actually are being oppressed. The same is not happening in America.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Topic Author
Posts: 14478
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:29 am

mjba257 wrote:
SL1200MK2 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

The left has managed to politicize everything in this country, this is the result.

They were so concerned about mis information, there has been so much of that with this law.

Yet these are the people who have no issue at all dealing with China, who doesnt even celebrate free elections, have concentration camps for ethinc minorities and last year let a virus that has killed millions of people spread.

But the “problem” is Georgia folks.


Wait, are you bringing China into this? Now conservatives care about ethnic minorities, but only in China?


Because ethnic minorities in China actually are being oppressed. The same is not happening in America.


Sure, oppression is not the appropriate equivalent word to use, given the laws that are on the books. But failure to apply the CRA and other laws means the playing field is still nowhere near level, particularly with the franchise. Do you have any well cited sources that can show any of the following are not actually experienced by ethnic minorities in the US?

https://dornsife.usc.edu/csii/blog-fitz ... ean-lopez/

https://gould.usc.edu/students/journals ... _Macro.pdf

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/rac ... s-n1241862
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1839
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:29 am

luckyone wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
I've never understood moving sports games because of stuff like this. What exactly does it achieve besides taking money away from a city that is heavily democrat and has one of the largest populations of black people in the country? Why does the rest of the state, who most likely supports the law, care?

It's kind of like when the NCAA boycotted Charlotte over the "bathroom bill" in North Carolina. Yeah good job, I'm sure all the conservatives in the surrounding counties who supported the bill were crying over all the revenue the liberal city of Charlotte lost.

If anything, all it does is further divide the country and strengthen the base of those who are for the law.

As for the law itself, how exactly does it limit access to the ballot box for minorities? By requiring ID? Something that most countries require when voting? Many of the things that this bill does are actually in line with what other states do, I'm really confused as to why people are upset about it. Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel as though this is one of the biggest misinformation campaigns in recent memory.

If nothing else you should educate yourself to the fact that the Braves do not play in the City of Atlanta. The stadium they use is in an entirely different county that is much less black and much more suburban.


Just to extend on this, I'm willing to bet the Republican base is the larger set of ticket holders for the Braves. Hence the Braves siding with Kemp (EDIT: The Braves response is more neutral, though they outright did not come out vehemently against the law unlike other large Georgia business). While Cobb County ended up voting blue (only approx. 56% of votes for Biden, lower than Fulton and Dekalb counties, so there's still a decent Republican contingent in Cobb), perhaps there's pull from the exurb counties to the northeast, north and west (Forsyth, Paulding, Bartow, and Cherokee Counties) who voted red.

So in essence, the MLB's decision to move this impacts that base the most.
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1839
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:43 am

Trump now calling for boycott of all Georgia companies against the election changes. This may be the break Kemp was looking for.

https://nypost.com/2021/04/03/trump-cal ... -airlines/

(Source: NY Post)
 
luckyone
Posts: 3849
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:09 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
Trump now calling for boycott of all Georgia companies against the election changes. This may be the break Kemp was looking for.

https://nypost.com/2021/04/03/trump-cal ... -airlines/

(Source: NY Post)

Of course he is. Trump’s entire skill set is limited to:
“No, you’re stupid!”
“I didn’t wanna play with you anyway and I’m never talking to you again.”
And so limited are so many others.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23574
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:28 pm

luckyone wrote:
seb146 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
I've never understood moving sports games because of stuff like this. What exactly does it achieve besides taking money away from a city that is heavily democrat and has one of the largest populations of black people in the country? Why does the rest of the state, who most likely supports the law, care?

It's kind of like when the NCAA boycotted Charlotte over the "bathroom bill" in North Carolina. Yeah good job, I'm sure all the conservatives in the surrounding counties who supported the bill were crying over all the revenue the liberal city of Charlotte lost.

If anything, all it does is further divide the country and strengthen the base of those who are for the law.

As for the law itself, how exactly does it limit access to the ballot box for minorities? By requiring ID? Something that most countries require when voting? Many of the things that this bill does are actually in line with what other states do, I'm really confused as to why people are upset about it. Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel as though this is one of the biggest misinformation campaigns in recent memory.


In addition to post number one

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/ ... escalating

As far as why should an entire state care, think about the tax revenue. I don't know what state taxes Georgia places on individuals (income or sales) but that would decline. Since that is a state program, those revenues would also be cut for rural areas. Also, tourism. Some people decide to venture outside the host city. In the case of MLB All Star Game, that would mostly be Savannah and Augusta. So, that revenue is gone. Even after the event, people still go because "I saw that on TV and want to see it in person" or "we had such a wonderful time when that event happened, we want to go again".

There was no voter fraud. States have voter ID laws. It's just a big deal when Republicans lose.

The State of Georgia taxes income above $7,000 at 5.75% (until last year it was 6%).


So that extra revenue will be gone in addition to sales tax revenue. It could even be argued that hiring will slow. All because Republicans simply want power and have zero ideas for making the country better.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
NCAD95
Posts: 238
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:11 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:48 pm

Why is it OK for corporations to donate millions to political candidates to buy that particular politician but it's not OK to give a voter food and drink while standing in line. This is all about a party wanting to control the people who they want to vote.
 
BowlingShoeDC9
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:18 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:43 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
LNCS0930 wrote:

MLB in one day managed to outdo the dumbness of all the dumb things the NBA and NFL combined have ever done. That’s quite an accomplishment there


The left has managed to politicize everything in this country, this is the result.

They were so concerned about mis information, there has been so much of that with this law.

Yet these are the people who have no issue at all dealing with China, who doesnt even celebrate free elections, have concentration camps for ethinc minorities and last year let a virus that has killed millions of people spread.

But the “problem” is Georgia folks.


Companies have a right to speak up on the values they support, no? Is it ‘misinformation’ to say the franchise should be expanded, not more limited?

No idea how China could possibly be connected to this issue - sounds like a massive conflationary stretch to me. :scratchchin:


China is a straw-man... and not a very good one at that considering the previous president’s congratulations on Xi’s consolidation of power for life. His ignoring and even alleged encouragement of the treatment of the Uighur’s to protect trade deal talks. His late response to the situation in Hong Kong. But hey, those tarrifs sure showed China right? They were absolutely not paid for by Americans in any way whatsoever due to increased prices and subsidies to farmers. :roll:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trump-china-idUSKCN1GG015

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53138833

https://apnews.com/article/63f156933a5520d157dea25ab764af09

Also one last point, Trump was the one who let COVID-19 spread like wildfire through this country through inaction and misinformation. Regardless of the origin of this virus, China cannot control the US governments response to a health emergency. New Zealand for example, has been a fantastic example of how to control and stop the virus. And you know what? The government in power actually benefited from it politically because they did a such a good job handling the crisis. Instead of doing the work, Trump (along with a very large majority of the GOP) were so concerned with this being blamed on them they denied and downplayed the existence of the virus which lead to a misinformed and distrustful public. Trump was singularly obsessed with having a legacy like Lincoln, Teddy, Washington, or FDR but he was unwilling to do the work required to overcome the challenge. Imagine if Lincoln denied the reality of the Civil War or FDR called Pearl Harbor fake news? What if FDR called the Great Depression fake news. What if Kennedy sat and felt sorry for himself during the Cuban Missile Crisis? What if Washington didn’t think it was fair for him to cross the Delaware in winter? All great people (and leaders in particular) have faced monumental challenges. It is how they dealt with those challenges that made them great. Great people don’t sit and whine about how it was someone else's fault.
 
bennett123
Posts: 10758
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:45 pm

Surely, the real point is why does it take hours to vote.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18616
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:38 pm

mjba257 wrote:
SL1200MK2 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

The left has managed to politicize everything in this country, this is the result.

They were so concerned about mis information, there has been so much of that with this law.

Yet these are the people who have no issue at all dealing with China, who doesnt even celebrate free elections, have concentration camps for ethinc minorities and last year let a virus that has killed millions of people spread.

But the “problem” is Georgia folks.


Wait, are you bringing China into this? Now conservatives care about ethnic minorities, but only in China?


Because ethnic minorities in China actually are being oppressed. The same is not happening in America.

Trump--and let's be honest republicans--loved it. It fits right in with their raging islamophobia:
Bolton says Trump didn’t just ignore human rights but encouraged China’s concentration camps
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... ion-camps/
I don't take responsibility at all
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23574
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:34 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Surely, the real point is why does it take hours to vote.


Only in certain areas does it take hours. Heavily Democratic areas and heavily minority areas. Outside those areas, we hear "but it only takes me five minutes so why are people complaining?"
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Veigar
Posts: 557
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:22 am

seb146 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Surely, the real point is why does it take hours to vote.


Only in certain areas does it take hours. Heavily Democratic areas and heavily minority areas. Outside those areas, we hear "but it only takes me five minutes so why are people complaining?"


It took me 10 minutes to vote in Vegas, which I'd consider heavily democratic.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9420
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:33 am

Veigar wrote:
seb146 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Surely, the real point is why does it take hours to vote.


Only in certain areas does it take hours. Heavily Democratic areas and heavily minority areas. Outside those areas, we hear "but it only takes me five minutes so why are people complaining?"


It took me 10 minutes to vote in Vegas, which I'd consider heavily democratic.


We could discuss the relevance of your one ten-minute vote in the context of the 158 million votes cast in the 2020 presidential election.

The requirement for ID has had a lot of passes through the courts, generally sustained. Maybe states should be prohibited from charging for IDs. If they're going to demand an ID to allow the exercise of a constitutional right, IDs ought to be free. Would people accept needing to appear in person, present multiple forms of proof of residency and ID, and be photographed to obtain a firearm ID at a cost of $50 every four years in order to keep a weapon?

It's hard to argue that making it harder to vote, in ways that have no meaningful contribution to election security, improve democracy. Some provisions are just petty (like no water). What's wrong with absentee ballots by mail? The U.S. military has been voting by mail since 1946. Colorado and Oregon are essentially all by mail, and have been for years without evidence of major fraud.

https://sos.oregon.gov/elections/Docume ... meline.pdf

Here's the NYT's summary of major provisions.

Here are the most significant changes to voting in the state, as written into the new law:

Voters will now have less time to request absentee ballots.

There are strict new ID requirements for absentee ballots.

It’s now illegal for election officials to mail out absentee ballot applications to all voters.

Drop boxes still exist … but barely.

Mobile voting centers (think an R.V. where you can vote) are essentially banned.

Early voting is expanded in a lot of small counties, but probably not in more populous ones.

Offering food or water to voters waiting in line now risks misdemeanor charges.

If you go to the wrong polling place, it will be (even) harder to vote.

If election problems arise, a common occurrence, it is now more difficult to extend voting hours.

With a mix of changes to vote-counting, high-turnout elections will probably mean a long wait for results.

Election officials can no longer accept third-party funding (a measure that nods to right-wing conspiracy theories).

With an eye toward voter fraud, the state attorney general will manage an election hotline.

The Republican-controlled legislature has more control over the State Election Board.

The secretary of state is removed as a voting member of the State Election Board.

The G.O.P.-led legislature is empowered to suspend county election officials.

Runoff elections will happen faster — and could become harder to manage.


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/p ... tated.html
 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 2334
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:12 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Veigar wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Only in certain areas does it take hours. Heavily Democratic areas and heavily minority areas. Outside those areas, we hear "but it only takes me five minutes so why are people complaining?"


It took me 10 minutes to vote in Vegas, which I'd consider heavily democratic.


We could discuss the relevance of your one ten-minute vote in the context of the 158 million votes cast in the 2020 presidential election.

The requirement for ID has had a lot of passes through the courts, generally sustained. Maybe states should be prohibited from charging for IDs. If they're going to demand an ID to allow the exercise of a constitutional right, IDs ought to be free. Would people accept needing to appear in person, present multiple forms of proof of residency and ID, and be photographed to obtain a firearm ID at a cost of $50 every four years in order to keep a weapon?

It's hard to argue that making it harder to vote, in ways that have no meaningful contribution to election security, improve democracy. Some provisions are just petty (like no water). What's wrong with absentee ballots by mail? The U.S. military has been voting by mail since 1946. Colorado and Oregon are essentially all by mail, and have been for years without evidence of major fraud.

https://sos.oregon.gov/elections/Docume ... meline.pdf

Here's the NYT's summary of major provisions.

Here are the most significant changes to voting in the state, as written into the new law:

Voters will now have less time to request absentee ballots.

There are strict new ID requirements for absentee ballots.

It’s now illegal for election officials to mail out absentee ballot applications to all voters.

Drop boxes still exist … but barely.

Mobile voting centers (think an R.V. where you can vote) are essentially banned.

Early voting is expanded in a lot of small counties, but probably not in more populous ones.

Offering food or water to voters waiting in line now risks misdemeanor charges.

If you go to the wrong polling place, it will be (even) harder to vote.

If election problems arise, a common occurrence, it is now more difficult to extend voting hours.

With a mix of changes to vote-counting, high-turnout elections will probably mean a long wait for results.

Election officials can no longer accept third-party funding (a measure that nods to right-wing conspiracy theories).

With an eye toward voter fraud, the state attorney general will manage an election hotline.

The Republican-controlled legislature has more control over the State Election Board.

The secretary of state is removed as a voting member of the State Election Board.

The G.O.P.-led legislature is empowered to suspend county election officials.

Runoff elections will happen faster — and could become harder to manage.


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/p ... tated.html


NYT should look at their own voter requirements:

https://vote.nyc/page/voter-id

https://www.elections.ny.gov/VotingAbsentee.html

https://heritageaction.com/blog/myth-vs ... ection-law

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... -jim-crow/
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
bigGAplane
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:40 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:00 pm

The biggest issue surrounding the voter integrity law passed in GA is that too many opportunists are straight up lying about the bill and their followers are too lazy to actually do some research and see what the bill actually says.

In regards to the 4 items the OP found troubling...

1. Drop boxes in GA are not the norm. They were never part of the law. Drop boxes were made available by temporary emergency order issued by the state because of the pandemic. Had this law not passed, the next election could actually have 0 drop boxes unless the state passed another emergency order which since in 2022 we won’t be in an emergency is highly unlikely. Nobody actually mentions this...

2. The runoff election timeline is reduced from 9 weeks after the general election to 4 weeks after. Honestly, they just need to get rid of the runoff anyways but the reason the timing was reduced is because 9 weeks meant the runoff dragged thru the holiday season (xmas) and the runoff didn’t take place until AFTER the terms of those politicians was actually set to start.

3. The bill does not remove authority from the counties. The bill calls for a nonpartisan review board to investigate counties that do not follow the law and that can’t do their job right. The nonpartisan review board can conduct an investigation and then submit a recommendation to the state elections board. This is meant to hold counties accountable for things like having long lines at the polls etc. This is actually a good thing. Where else is accountability considered a bad thing? The bill outlines a detailed process of how this all works.

4. The bill doesn’t specifically say that nobody can give water to anyone in line. The bill says you can’t give gifts, money, food/drinks to someone waiting in line to vote. This is literally common sense. Our general election takes place in November...it’s not 90+ degrees in GA in November. Those who are elderly/disabled can go to the front of the line. You also have 17 days of early voting and can request an absentee ballot up to 11 weeks before Election Day. The belief here is that someone in line to vote needs to be left alone. Nobody should be coming up to you and offering a “Trump Steak” or “Trump water”. The only ones that can offer water are going to be poll workers.
 
User avatar
CarlosSi
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:29 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:17 pm

I just.. don't see what's the problem with people justifying that we don't need more polling locations or drop boxes. Good for you if you don't need one, but what's a luxury to you might be a privilege to others to be able to have. Check your privilege.

There is nothing wrong with giving people plenty of options in a populated area to go vote (of course you could say there's probably a limit when there is "too many" of them, but we're most likely far from that before we start to cut locations). Try driving in Houston to get your vote counted. This is a /barrier/, fact. It is not /not/ a barrier, because it's literally making it harder for you to vote. Might not be an issue for you, but what if others are not so capable or are poor? What if we only had one central location to vote in the entire city and in just one day like many people are proposing or are ok with? We have huge, expanse cities in the states.

There has never been anything wrong with providing food and drinks to people waiting in line. Any argument against it is just trying to justify the unnecessary. I guess that's not a big of a deal though. Just stupid, buzzkill.

There is nothing wrong with allowing people to vote on any day just multiple days before election day. Heck, why does it have to be on a certain day? You're talking about counting MILLIONS of votes across the country (thousands in a city), why do you really really want to restrict everyone to vote on one day? What if it was election hour? Sure you might not be advocating for this but as far as the scope goes, you kind of are when you say we should be taking in the thousands/millions of votes in a very short time frame. It sounds like a thing called "cramming" in school. If you only need one day to go vote and that happens to be voting day, go right on effing head vote on that day, good for you for being able enough to set the time aside, but I bet out of the millions who vote each year, there will be many of them who end up unable to vote on election day. Is democracy only a thing for the privilege?

The (almost) exact wording of what I said out loud when I read an out of touch comment here: "wow what a *forum rules*".

Voter ID I understand better but people need to research a little bit more and check their privilege here as well. There are good ways to do voter ID as they do in Canada for example, but here in the states you try to reason with Republican politicians to be reasonable/flexible and they stop halfway so that they don't secure the vote, but instead, stop when their opponent's base is weakened.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
Last edited by CarlosSi on Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
bigGAplane
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:40 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:47 pm

CarlosSi wrote:
I just.. don't see what's the problem with people justifying that we don't need more polling locations or drop boxes. Good for you if you don't need one, but what's a luxury to you might be a privilege to others to be able to have. Check your privilege.

There is nothing wrong with giving people plenty of options in a populated area to go vote (of course you could say there's probably a limit when there is "too many" of them, but we're most likely far from that before we start to cut locations). Try driving in Houston to get your vote counted. This is a /barrier/, fact. It is not /not/ a barrier, because it's literally making it harder for you to vote. Might not be an issue for you, but what if others are not so capable or are poor? What if we only had one central location to vote in the entire city and in just one day like many people are proposing or are ok with? We have huge, expanse cities in the states.

There has never been anything wrong with providing food and drinks to people waiting in line. Any argument against it is just trying to justify the unnecessary. I guess that's not a big of a deal though. Just stupid, buzzkill.

There is nothing wrong with allowing people to vote on any day just multiple days before election day. Heck, why does it have to be on a certain day? You're talking about counting MILLIONS of votes across the country (thousands in a city), why do you really really want to restrict everyone to vote on one day? What if it was election hour? Sure you might not be advocating for this but as far as the scope goes, you kind of are when you say we should be taking in the thousands/millions of votes in a very short time frame. It sounds like a thing called "cramming" in school. If you only need one day to go vote and that happens to be voting day, go right on effing head vote on that day, good for you for being able enough to set the time aside, but I bet out of the millions who vote each year, there will be many of them who end up unable to vote on election day. Is democracy only a thing for the privilege?

The (almost) exact wording of what I said out loud when I read an out of touch comment here: "wow what a *forum rules*".

Voter ID I understand better but people need to research a little bit more and check their privilege here as well. There are good ways to do voter ID as they do in Canada for example, but here in the states you try to reason with Republican politicians to be reasonable/flexible and they stop halfway so that they don't secure the vote, but instead, stop when their opponent's base is weakened.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html


I think if anything, you’re out of touch.

Fulton County is the biggest county in Georgia and where most of Atlanta is located.

In 2020 there were 255 polling location in Fulton County. There’s about 800,000 eligible voters. If you have a 75% voter turnout (quite high) then that means about 600,000 people in Fulton County would cast a ballot.

The law just passed does not reduce the number of polling places. It does however EXPAND weekend early voting. Each county will have a minimum of 17 days of early voting and a maximum of 19 days. Georgia also has absentee voting for anyone that request an absentee ballot. You will be able to request it up to 11 weeks before Election Day. That’s nearly 3 months!

The new law also adds accountability measures and puts in steps that counties must take if their lines are too long.

But hey...everyone is too busy listening to Biden lie about the bill rather than actually reading the actual bill.
 
petertenthije
Posts: 4166
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:50 pm

bigGAplane wrote:
4. The bill doesn’t specifically say that nobody can give water to anyone in line. The bill says you can’t give (...) drinks to someone waiting in line to vote.


Great job contradicting yourself in two consecutive sentences!
The first thing to remember is always treat your kite like you treat your woman.
Get inside her five times a day and take her to heaven and back!
Lord Flashheart, 1989
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18616
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:18 pm

DL717 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Veigar wrote:

It took me 10 minutes to vote in Vegas, which I'd consider heavily democratic.


We could discuss the relevance of your one ten-minute vote in the context of the 158 million votes cast in the 2020 presidential election.

The requirement for ID has had a lot of passes through the courts, generally sustained. Maybe states should be prohibited from charging for IDs. If they're going to demand an ID to allow the exercise of a constitutional right, IDs ought to be free. Would people accept needing to appear in person, present multiple forms of proof of residency and ID, and be photographed to obtain a firearm ID at a cost of $50 every four years in order to keep a weapon?

It's hard to argue that making it harder to vote, in ways that have no meaningful contribution to election security, improve democracy. Some provisions are just petty (like no water). What's wrong with absentee ballots by mail? The U.S. military has been voting by mail since 1946. Colorado and Oregon are essentially all by mail, and have been for years without evidence of major fraud.

https://sos.oregon.gov/elections/Docume ... meline.pdf

Here's the NYT's summary of major provisions.

Here are the most significant changes to voting in the state, as written into the new law:

Voters will now have less time to request absentee ballots.

There are strict new ID requirements for absentee ballots.

It’s now illegal for election officials to mail out absentee ballot applications to all voters.

Drop boxes still exist … but barely.

Mobile voting centers (think an R.V. where you can vote) are essentially banned.

Early voting is expanded in a lot of small counties, but probably not in more populous ones.

Offering food or water to voters waiting in line now risks misdemeanor charges.

If you go to the wrong polling place, it will be (even) harder to vote.

If election problems arise, a common occurrence, it is now more difficult to extend voting hours.

With a mix of changes to vote-counting, high-turnout elections will probably mean a long wait for results.

Election officials can no longer accept third-party funding (a measure that nods to right-wing conspiracy theories).

With an eye toward voter fraud, the state attorney general will manage an election hotline.

The Republican-controlled legislature has more control over the State Election Board.

The secretary of state is removed as a voting member of the State Election Board.

The G.O.P.-led legislature is empowered to suspend county election officials.

Runoff elections will happen faster — and could become harder to manage.


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/p ... tated.html


NYT should look at their own voter requirements:

https://vote.nyc/page/voter-id

https://www.elections.ny.gov/VotingAbsentee.html

https://heritageaction.com/blog/myth-vs ... ection-law

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... -jim-crow/

What issue pray tell is this law correcting? Here's a list of all the challenges that were slapped down if you need a refresher, often by GOP GA leaders:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-elec ... om_Georgia

MIflyer12 wrote:
Veigar wrote:
seb146 wrote:
What's wrong with absentee ballots by mail? The U.S. military has been voting by mail since 1946. Colorado and Oregon are essentially all by mail, and have been for years without evidence of major fraud.

Oh republicans loved absentee ballot/vote by mail, until Trump decided that it was bad, and then all the mouth breathers did a 180 and decided it was bad cuz daddy said so. There's no rational behind it. Trump just assumed that casting doubt over absentee/vote by mail would reduce votes. And it did, for him, in Georgia. :rotfl:
I don't take responsibility at all
 
User avatar
CarlosSi
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:29 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:34 pm

If you don't think there's anything wrong with the GA bill, are you saying there /is/ something wrong with just letting people have the liberty, no, the FREEDOM to be able to vote on any given weekday before the election day? Tell me what is wrong with that and how being restricted to one day should be upheld. Same with having a reasonable number of polling locations. So far the arguments I can think of are out of touch or narrowminded if not corrupt. IMO election day should just be that; election day, not voting day.

Notice I'm not arguing about the more controversial voter ID laws or mail in ballots. Because those at least have sort of ok arguments. With the two I mention above... I just don't see it.
 
bigGAplane
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:40 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:00 pm

CarlosSi wrote:
If you don't think there's anything wrong with the GA bill, are you saying there /is/ something wrong with just letting people have the liberty, no, the FREEDOM to be able to vote on any given weekday before the election day? Tell me what is wrong with that and how being restricted to one day should be upheld. Same with having a reasonable number of polling locations. So far the arguments I can think of are out of touch or narrowminded if not corrupt. IMO election day should just be that; election day, not voting day.

Notice I'm not arguing about the more controversial voter ID laws or mail in ballots. Because those at least have sort of ok arguments. With the two I mention above... I just don't see it.


The GA voting bill expands early voting. Not sure what your gripe is here. Each county is required to offer a minimum of 17 early voting days including 2 weekend days at a minimum.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23574
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:22 pm

DL717 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Veigar wrote:

It took me 10 minutes to vote in Vegas, which I'd consider heavily democratic.


We could discuss the relevance of your one ten-minute vote in the context of the 158 million votes cast in the 2020 presidential election.

The requirement for ID has had a lot of passes through the courts, generally sustained. Maybe states should be prohibited from charging for IDs. If they're going to demand an ID to allow the exercise of a constitutional right, IDs ought to be free. Would people accept needing to appear in person, present multiple forms of proof of residency and ID, and be photographed to obtain a firearm ID at a cost of $50 every four years in order to keep a weapon?

It's hard to argue that making it harder to vote, in ways that have no meaningful contribution to election security, improve democracy. Some provisions are just petty (like no water). What's wrong with absentee ballots by mail? The U.S. military has been voting by mail since 1946. Colorado and Oregon are essentially all by mail, and have been for years without evidence of major fraud.

https://sos.oregon.gov/elections/Docume ... meline.pdf

Here's the NYT's summary of major provisions.

Here are the most significant changes to voting in the state, as written into the new law:

Voters will now have less time to request absentee ballots.

There are strict new ID requirements for absentee ballots.

It’s now illegal for election officials to mail out absentee ballot applications to all voters.

Drop boxes still exist … but barely.

Mobile voting centers (think an R.V. where you can vote) are essentially banned.

Early voting is expanded in a lot of small counties, but probably not in more populous ones.

Offering food or water to voters waiting in line now risks misdemeanor charges.

If you go to the wrong polling place, it will be (even) harder to vote.

If election problems arise, a common occurrence, it is now more difficult to extend voting hours.

With a mix of changes to vote-counting, high-turnout elections will probably mean a long wait for results.

Election officials can no longer accept third-party funding (a measure that nods to right-wing conspiracy theories).

With an eye toward voter fraud, the state attorney general will manage an election hotline.

The Republican-controlled legislature has more control over the State Election Board.

The secretary of state is removed as a voting member of the State Election Board.

The G.O.P.-led legislature is empowered to suspend county election officials.

Runoff elections will happen faster — and could become harder to manage.


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/p ... tated.html


NYT should look at their own voter requirements:

https://vote.nyc/page/voter-id

https://www.elections.ny.gov/VotingAbsentee.html

https://heritageaction.com/blog/myth-vs ... ection-law

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... -jim-crow/


And people are still able to get those legal IDs and vote. New York is not restricting people from voting who follow the rules. Just like voters did in Georgia in 2020. Again, this is Republicans creating a solution to a problem that simply does not exist.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23574
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:24 pm

Veigar wrote:
seb146 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Surely, the real point is why does it take hours to vote.


Only in certain areas does it take hours. Heavily Democratic areas and heavily minority areas. Outside those areas, we hear "but it only takes me five minutes so why are people complaining?"


It took me 10 minutes to vote in Vegas, which I'd consider heavily democratic.


And it takes us in Oregon two to five minutes, regardless of party or address. What is your point?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
9Patch
Posts: 657
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:38 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:24 pm

Steve Breen - The San Diego Union-Tribune

Image
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 1260
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:19 pm

bigGAplane wrote:
The biggest issue surrounding the voter integrity law passed in GA is that too many opportunists are straight up lying about the bill and their followers are too lazy to actually do some research and see what the bill actually says.

In regards to the 4 items the OP found troubling...

1. Drop boxes in GA are not the norm. They were never part of the law. Drop boxes were made available by temporary emergency order issued by the state because of the pandemic. Had this law not passed, the next election could actually have 0 drop boxes unless the state passed another emergency order which since in 2022 we won’t be in an emergency is highly unlikely. Nobody actually mentions this...

2. The runoff election timeline is reduced from 9 weeks after the general election to 4 weeks after. Honestly, they just need to get rid of the runoff anyways but the reason the timing was reduced is because 9 weeks meant the runoff dragged thru the holiday season (xmas) and the runoff didn’t take place until AFTER the terms of those politicians was actually set to start.

3. The bill does not remove authority from the counties. The bill calls for a nonpartisan review board to investigate counties that do not follow the law and that can’t do their job right. The nonpartisan review board can conduct an investigation and then submit a recommendation to the state elections board. This is meant to hold counties accountable for things like having long lines at the polls etc. This is actually a good thing. Where else is accountability considered a bad thing? The bill outlines a detailed process of how this all works.

4. The bill doesn’t specifically say that nobody can give water to anyone in line. The bill says you can’t give gifts, money, food/drinks to someone waiting in line to vote. This is literally common sense. Our general election takes place in November...it’s not 90+ degrees in GA in November. Those who are elderly/disabled can go to the front of the line. You also have 17 days of early voting and can request an absentee ballot up to 11 weeks before Election Day. The belief here is that someone in line to vote needs to be left alone. Nobody should be coming up to you and offering a “Trump Steak” or “Trump water”. The only ones that can offer water are going to be poll workers.


As to #3, this bill absolutely gives a bunch of openings for unelected officials to take control of a democratic election. It is a pathetic power grab.

https://twitter.com/nw_horadam/status/1 ... 3141308418

It is sad that a bunch of sore losers came up with this sneaky Jim Crow bill all because they couldn’t bear to lose. Just get over it and try to win the election by getting the most votes.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14250
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:33 pm

Veigar wrote:
It took me 10 minutes to vote in Vegas, which I'd consider heavily democratic.


It's not.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
User avatar
Veigar
Posts: 557
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:21 pm

seb146 wrote:
Veigar wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Only in certain areas does it take hours. Heavily Democratic areas and heavily minority areas. Outside those areas, we hear "but it only takes me five minutes so why are people complaining?"


It took me 10 minutes to vote in Vegas, which I'd consider heavily democratic.


And it takes us in Oregon two to five minutes, regardless of party or address. What is your point?


The person I was replying to was implying that only democratic areas (as well as places with more minorities) are the ones experiencing hour long voting times.


MIflyer12 wrote:
Veigar wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Only in certain areas does it take hours. Heavily Democratic areas and heavily minority areas. Outside those areas, we hear "but it only takes me five minutes so why are people complaining?"


It took me 10 minutes to vote in Vegas, which I'd consider heavily democratic.


We could discuss the relevance of your one ten-minute vote in the context of the 158 million votes cast in the 2020 presidential election.

The requirement for ID has had a lot of passes through the courts, generally sustained. Maybe states should be prohibited from charging for IDs. If they're going to demand an ID to allow the exercise of a constitutional right, IDs ought to be free. Would people accept needing to appear in person, present multiple forms of proof of residency and ID, and be photographed to obtain a firearm ID at a cost of $50 every four years in order to keep a weapon?

It's hard to argue that making it harder to vote, in ways that have no meaningful contribution to election security, improve democracy. Some provisions are just petty (like no water). What's wrong with absentee ballots by mail? The U.S. military has been voting by mail since 1946. Colorado and Oregon are essentially all by mail, and have been for years without evidence of major fraud.

https://sos.oregon.gov/elections/Docume ... meline.pdf

Here's the NYT's summary of major provisions.

Here are the most significant changes to voting in the state, as written into the new law:

Voters will now have less time to request absentee ballots.

There are strict new ID requirements for absentee ballots.

It’s now illegal for election officials to mail out absentee ballot applications to all voters.

Drop boxes still exist … but barely.

Mobile voting centers (think an R.V. where you can vote) are essentially banned.

Early voting is expanded in a lot of small counties, but probably not in more populous ones.

Offering food or water to voters waiting in line now risks misdemeanor charges.

If you go to the wrong polling place, it will be (even) harder to vote.

If election problems arise, a common occurrence, it is now more difficult to extend voting hours.

With a mix of changes to vote-counting, high-turnout elections will probably mean a long wait for results.

Election officials can no longer accept third-party funding (a measure that nods to right-wing conspiracy theories).

With an eye toward voter fraud, the state attorney general will manage an election hotline.

The Republican-controlled legislature has more control over the State Election Board.

The secretary of state is removed as a voting member of the State Election Board.

The G.O.P.-led legislature is empowered to suspend county election officials.

Runoff elections will happen faster — and could become harder to manage.


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/p ... tated.html


If you wanted to remove the ID requirement to exercise a constitutional right, that'd include gun sales too I assume?
Last edited by Veigar on Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Veigar
Posts: 557
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:23 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Veigar wrote:
It took me 10 minutes to vote in Vegas, which I'd consider heavily democratic.


It's not.


What is it then?
 
art
Posts: 4069
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:58 am

The purpose of elections is to determine the number of electors that choose to record their support for each candidate. Any impediment to voters casting their vote undermines the purpose of elections.
 
Newark727
Posts: 2355
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:37 am

Veigar wrote:
If you wanted to remove the ID requirement to exercise a constitutional right, that'd include gun sales too I assume?


When's the last time a dozen people were killed in a voting spree?
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23574
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:48 am

Veigar wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Veigar wrote:

It took me 10 minutes to vote in Vegas, which I'd consider heavily democratic.


And it takes us in Oregon two to five minutes, regardless of party or address. What is your point?


The person I was replying to was implying that only democratic areas (as well as places with more minorities) are the ones experiencing hour long voting times.


Whether it was me or not, there are plenty of studies out there that show Democratic and minority districts take longer to vote and have higher standards to even get to the polling place.

https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/2020/ ... ommunities
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... es/274791/
https://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/Po ... d=18913598
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Veigar
Posts: 557
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:13 am

Newark727 wrote:
Veigar wrote:
If you wanted to remove the ID requirement to exercise a constitutional right, that'd include gun sales too I assume?


When's the last time a dozen people were killed in a voting spree?


I was just saying you'd have to be consistent with the "constitutional right" argument.
 
Newark727
Posts: 2355
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Georgia Election Law Controversy

Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:31 am

Veigar wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Veigar wrote:
If you wanted to remove the ID requirement to exercise a constitutional right, that'd include gun sales too I assume?


When's the last time a dozen people were killed in a voting spree?


I was just saying you'd have to be consistent with the "constitutional right" argument.


Do you? They're not the same.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: casinterest, lightsaber and 90 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos