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scbriml
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F1 - 2021 Season

Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:19 pm

Well, it's that time of the year again, F1 is back in business! With Covid still causing issues around the World, the season opener is not Australia as would be normal, but Bahrain (which has the odd distinction of hosting three of the last four GP.)

Following on from their strong showing in pre-season testing, Red Bull look to have put together the strongest package with their Honda engine having clearly made a big step forward, with the other Honda powered team Alpha Tauri also making a good step forward.

Qualifying confirmed Red Bull's superiority with Max Verstappen taking pole by nearly 0.4s from Hamilton, with Bottas third, a further couple of 1/10s adrift.

Full qualifying result:
Image
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/latest
Some drivers may yet be penalised fro exceeding track limits in qualifying.

Notable performances outside the top three:
Perez for the wrong reasons as he failed to make Q3, when Red Bull need him mixing it up with the Mercedes.
Leclerc - had been behind Sainz for most of the weekend, but produced when required. However, both the Ferraris needed to use the softs to get to Q3, so could be disadvantaged by having to pit before most of the drivers around him.
Gasly - an excellent weekend so far in what is probably the most improved car on the grid.
McLaren - good qualifying in 6th & 7th, but might have been expected to be a bit closer to the front.
Vettel - struggled on his first outing for Aston Martin. He was pretty unlucky with two yellow flags on his last flying lap, which meant he only managed to finish 18th while Stroll made it to Q3.
HAAS - with two rookie drivers, it should be no real surprise to see them bring up the rear some way off the pace.

So, it looks as though Mercedes have their work cut out to claw back Red Bull's apparent advantage. However, as recent history has shown, they have a very good record of getting stronger as the season progresses. Say it quietly, but we could be in for the closest battle between two different teams since 2012.
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:02 am

Good: Someone else than Mercedes taking the pole. AlphaTauri finding a lot of pace
Above average: McLaren looks to be able to keep building on the momentum they found last season
Medium: Ferrari have improved, but probably not enough to be serious podium contenders
Below average: Having fought for 3rd last season, Alpina seems to be struggling at the beginning of this season
Bad: Aston Martin does not look nearly as good as last season; is the "Green Mercedes" not working for them as well as the pink one did?
Really sh1tty: HAAS. Must be "elated" to see Mazespin spinning not once but twice in qualifying, and having made it abundantly clear to all they're now the slowest car on track. Money talks, but it looks like the money have talked them into an early grave.
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:31 pm

A promising start of the season. A lot more teams are competitive it seems.
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:17 pm

Fun race.

Fitting start for Mazepin. Crofty didn't even have to check if it was Schumacher or Mazepin who spun (granted Mick spun a few laps later). Only 1 weekend in and he's already rightly become persona non-grata (especially after breaking the gentlemen's agreement and then destroying a few peoples' laps in quali). The Haas looks like a real POS to drive.

Shame for Gasly. Such a great performance in quali only to have it ripped away from what honestly looked like a relatively minor bump into Ricciardo.

Wish the stewards would make up their mind on track limits though. 40 laps of going wide at T4 to shave off time isn't an advantage but finishing up a pass is? Enforce it or don't but don't change the enforcement mid-race.
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:55 pm

Well that was some season opener, very exciting! Much better than the usual Oz-bore.

We were treated to a real duel in the sand at the sharp end. Red Bull were most people's favourite for the race and Verstappen opened an early lead without ever managing to leave Hamilton behind. Pit stop strategies then played out and left Hamilton in the lead when Verstappen stopped for the second time with 16 laps to go and a nine second deficit. Despite catching Hamilton with something like five laps left, he only got past by running wide at turn 4 and was told to give the place back by race control. After that Hamilton controlled the last couple of laps to take a really hard-fought win. Congrats to both drivers and thanks for the entertainment, hopefully more to come.

The new aero regulations, at first viewing, seem to have hampered the 'low rake' cars (Mercedes and Aston Martin) much more than the 'high rake ' ones. This has effectively closed the whole field up and gave us good racing up and down the field.

Rest of the top ten drivers:
Bottas - a fairly anonymous race after losing a place to Leclerc, he managed to battle back and a poor second pit stop left him well behind. Made a third stop to bag fastest lap.
Norris - an excellent drive to finish fourth. The McLaren looking pretty feisty all through the race.
Perez - a very good drive after a poor qualifying and starting the race from the pit lane after an electrical problem on the formation lap. If he'd started closer to the front he might have been able to help Verstappen/Red Bull be more flexible on their strategy. More to come from him, I think.
Leclerc - a solid race in a car that's still not quick enough.
Ricciardo - reasonable first drive for McLaren, but will be disappointed to finish behind Norris.
Sainz - reasonable drive after a problem on lap one.
Tsunoda - in the points in his very first F1 drive, well done.
Stroll - solid drive

Other notable performances:
Vettel - had a shocker, including driving into the back of Ocon.
Schumacher (where have I heard that name before?) - one bad spin and not much pace.
Alonso - reasonable drive before a mechanical DNF (brakes).
Mazepin - confirmed what many said, he's not very good. Spun on his own and crashed out on lap one.

All in all, a very exciting start to the new season. Sadly, because of the Chinese GP being cancelled, we have to wait three weeks for the second race.
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:07 pm

akiss20 wrote:
Wish the stewards would make up their mind on track limits though. 40 laps of going wide at T4 to shave off time isn't an advantage but finishing up a pass is? Enforce it or don't but don't change the enforcement mid-race.


One part was definitely confusing - exceeding track limits in practice or qualifying resulted in having lap times deleted. But, the drivers were told they could go wide at turn four in the race, as long as they "didn't gain a lasting advantage". I agree, that it's stupid for the race stewards to apparently change that and start warning drivers mid-race. All that said, overtaking off the track will be punished every single time, so IMHO, Verstappen can have no beef about it (and he of all drivers should know that!)

I have to say, I wish they would sort this out - the white lines demark the edge of the track. Drivers wouldn't willingly go outside them unless it means they can go faster. Have grass or gravel the other side of the white lines (and kerbs where applicable) and suddenly you'll see that F1 drivers can keep the car on track. It's also worth noting that drivers seem not to exceed track limits at circuits like Monaco and Montreal. :scratchchin:
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:55 pm

This Mazepin guy is only there because he brings big bucks, right ?

I mean the guy has already a reputation, screws up in quali, the car is slow anyway, why not take the start very safely and show you can an least finish a race lap, or better the whole GP ?

Vettel is back, not the old Vettel but the latest one it seems. Complaining about Ocon changing lanes when Ocon was going perfectly straight, come on !

Too bad for Alonso, he was doing well, passing good cars, then became slow suddenly, then lost the brakes.

Bottas already settling in his usual spot.

MSC 48s behind Vettel. I hope his engineers asked him to slow down, otherwise the car is even worse than I thought.
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:02 am

All the hype, and still Mercedes won.

Talk about anti-climax. Granted Super Max tried his damnedest to put one up on Lewis, but in the end, it's still the Mercedes that won.
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:42 am

Aesma wrote:
MSC 48s behind Vettel. I hope his engineers asked him to slow down, otherwise the car is even worse than I thought.


The HAAS is poor and having two rookie drivers doesn't help.

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
All the hype, and still Mercedes won.

Talk about anti-climax. Granted Super Max tried his damnedest to put one up on Lewis, but in the end, it's still the Mercedes that won.


So what do you want? Great races, regardless of who wins? Or, as it sounds, anyone but Hamilton or Mercedes to win.

If you didn't enjoy that race, then you can't call yourself an F1 fan. There was action everywhere and close racing up and down the field and the result in doubt to the chequered flag.

There's no pleasing some people. :sarcastic:
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:52 am

As "Hollander" obviously a bit sad that Max didn't win. However, if Louis wins every race this way this season will be infinitely better than the previous seasons. A bit scared though that Mercedes will improve quite rapidly though and it will be a Mighty Mercedes season after all. Some very hopeful signs though.
 
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:53 am

scbriml wrote:
So what do you want? Great races, regardless of who wins? Or, as it sounds, anyone but Hamilton or Mercedes to win.

If you didn't enjoy that race, then you can't call yourself an F1 fan. There was action everywhere and close racing up and down the field and the result in doubt to the chequered flag.

There's no pleasing some people. :sarcastic:


Honestly, it was a race won on strategy. Yes there were action, but not where it matters.
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:25 pm

Great race! Last few laps were on the edge of the seat. Looks like Max can fight the Mercs, at least yesterday he could. What was disappointing was Bottas being able to pit and do a fast lap even after a botched pit stop with such a big gap to Lando.
 
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:30 pm

I echo most others in saying it was an interesting race. I have no particular favourite this year, but I was gutted for Verstappen and Red Bull. Hamilton was there for the taking and you can rue what might have been had it not been for the track limit rule (makes you think whether it would have been better to have held position and argue later, especially considering Mercedes would have no doubt protested after Hamilton had been told to stop doing the same thing).

I respect what Hamilton and Mercedes have achieved in recent years, but I do hope Red Bull's strong performance at the first race is a sign of what to expect this year. The sport needs a proper battle as it's been lacking for a long time now as recent seasons have either been between team mates (Hamilton vs Rosberg) or fizzled out (e.g. Vettel and Ferrari in 2017 and 2018). Even if Hamilton/Mercedes come out on top again, it would be good if it at least went down to the wire.
 
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:45 pm

Seems like RBR had a strategy that relied on being able to pass a Merc on lesser tires, and frankly with the current formula any strat that requires an on track pass is iffy. But it is promising that Lewis and Max had a fight at all, most of the last years there was very little of that short of a mechanical issue. Nikita MassiveSpin seems to be our Safety Car magnet for the year so at least he may spice up a race or two by binning the car at odd points for the team stats. The Haas really looks like pure garbo which I'm sure isn't helping the kid either. A bit sad that the Aston seems to have gone from a 3rd best car last year to back of the mid-field with both Seb and Lance not really looking good on even tires. I am starting to loose any faith that Vettel will ever bring back his form from the Red Bull days, plowing up the back of a car like that is not a good look.
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:07 pm

scbriml wrote:
akiss20 wrote:
Wish the stewards would make up their mind on track limits though. 40 laps of going wide at T4 to shave off time isn't an advantage but finishing up a pass is? Enforce it or don't but don't change the enforcement mid-race.


One part was definitely confusing - exceeding track limits in practice or qualifying resulted in having lap times deleted. But, the drivers were told they could go wide at turn four in the race, as long as they "didn't gain a lasting advantage". I agree, that it's stupid for the race stewards to apparently change that and start warning drivers mid-race. All that said, overtaking off the track will be punished every single time, so IMHO, Verstappen can have no beef about it (and he of all drivers should know that!)

I have to say, I wish they would sort this out - the white lines demark the edge of the track. Drivers wouldn't willingly go outside them unless it means they can go faster. Have grass or gravel the other side of the white lines (and kerbs where applicable) and suddenly you'll see that F1 drivers can keep the car on track. It's also worth noting that drivers seem not to exceed track limits at circuits like Monaco and Montreal. :scratchchin:


I don't think even Max believes that his overtake was kosher (he explicitly said he would rather have lost from the time penalty than have to give the place back). What I think is stupid is that overtaking off track is considered getting an advantage but running wide to shave off a tenth a lap for 40 laps, thereby increasing Hamilton's lead and making it harder for Max to chase him down, is not "gaining an advantage." If a driver is going off track for 40 laps in a row, he isn't doing it for shits and giggles, there is clearly something he is gaining from it, thus getting an advantage. IMO only time going off track shouldn't count towards the warnings/penalties is when you outbrake yourself and have to recover. What's the point of having a track layout if we aren't enforcing track limits consistently?
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:06 pm

akiss20 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
akiss20 wrote:
Wish the stewards would make up their mind on track limits though. 40 laps of going wide at T4 to shave off time isn't an advantage but finishing up a pass is? Enforce it or don't but don't change the enforcement mid-race.


One part was definitely confusing - exceeding track limits in practice or qualifying resulted in having lap times deleted. But, the drivers were told they could go wide at turn four in the race, as long as they "didn't gain a lasting advantage". I agree, that it's stupid for the race stewards to apparently change that and start warning drivers mid-race. All that said, overtaking off the track will be punished every single time, so IMHO, Verstappen can have no beef about it (and he of all drivers should know that!)

I have to say, I wish they would sort this out - the white lines demark the edge of the track. Drivers wouldn't willingly go outside them unless it means they can go faster. Have grass or gravel the other side of the white lines (and kerbs where applicable) and suddenly you'll see that F1 drivers can keep the car on track. It's also worth noting that drivers seem not to exceed track limits at circuits like Monaco and Montreal. :scratchchin:


I don't think even Max believes that his overtake was kosher (he explicitly said he would rather have lost from the time penalty than have to give the place back). What I think is stupid is that overtaking off track is considered getting an advantage but running wide to shave off a tenth a lap for 40 laps, thereby increasing Hamilton's lead and making it harder for Max to chase him down, is not "gaining an advantage." If a driver is going off track for 40 laps in a row, he isn't doing it for shits and giggles, there is clearly something he is gaining from it, thus getting an advantage. IMO only time going off track shouldn't count towards the warnings/penalties is when you outbrake yourself and have to recover. What's the point of having a track layout if we aren't enforcing track limits consistently?


I completely agree - it's just another example of inconsistency in F1. Why impose track limits on a specific turn for FP2, FP3 and qualifying, but not the race? Madness.
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:45 pm

The FIA created this track limits issue them selves by electing to pave a track from left armco to right armco in the name of safety. Seems to me a good middle ground would be to replace the first meter or two of the edge with grass, it will not be faster or wise to use the grass to extend the entrance or exit of the corner but, should you mess the corner up you can scoot across it and recover in the still ample parking lot of paved run off well before you could hit that distant wall. I'm also all for narrowing up the exit curbing too, the curb should be a deterrent not an invitation.
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:03 pm

Turn 4, if you are allowed to go wide why not use it? Since you would have a hard time proving you "gained" an advantage. The rule was changed mid race stating you can't do it. Max overtook off track and has to give the position back. That's what happened.

Not a fan of Lewis but he did the smart thing by taking advantage of going wide T4 every time since he wouldn't get in trouble for going wide unless racing another car. Going wide on T4 seemed like a good way on saving tires and not losing time by slowing down to make the corner.

Disappointed on the outcome but great race.
 
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:21 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Honestly, it was a race won on strategy. Yes there were action, but not where it matters.


Strategy is, and always has been, a big part of F1. Three changes of race leader and wheel to wheel racing with less than a second between the front two for the last six laps isn't enough?
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:21 pm

T18 wrote:
Nikita MassiveSpin seems to be our Safety Car magnet for the year .....

:rotfl:
 
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:46 pm

Interesting to see how much effort the British fanbase puts into hyping up the Red Bull car.

Other thoughts for the weekend:

- Ocon really can't catch a break can he. Screwed in Qualifying by the double-waved yellow flags and had his race spoiled by Sebastian punting him off.
- Gasly's quality performance was ridiculously underrated.
- Tsunoda is the only rookie I'm excited for. Had a great first weekend imo. Mick is a nice chap but he's ridiculously overrated - his last name is a Silver Spoon which meant that he was always going to be in F1 if he wanted to be. Mazespin.....the less said the better. :yuck:
- I really don't have much time for Haas. They're not going to develop the car this year and they fired both their drivers (after pissing away Kevin Magnussen's career - what a waste). They're not going to get much sympathy from me.
- Not F1 specifically but it won't be long until Liam Lawson is in F1 based on his F2 debut.
- Based on Alpine's performance, how long until Fernando starts throwing toys out of the pram? Will he stay for the whole season?
- I liked this Tweet from Jack Aitken a lot

Jack Aitken - @JaitkenRacer Mar 29
Suddenly feeling a lot better about the 60 laps I managed in Sakhir before my spin

https://twitter.com/JaitkenRacer/status ... 55264?s=19


scbriml wrote:
akiss20 wrote:
scbriml wrote:

One part was definitely confusing - exceeding track limits in practice or qualifying resulted in having lap times deleted. But, the drivers were told they could go wide at turn four in the race, as long as they "didn't gain a lasting advantage". I agree, that it's stupid for the race stewards to apparently change that and start warning drivers mid-race. All that said, overtaking off the track will be punished every single time, so IMHO, Verstappen can have no beef about it (and he of all drivers should know that!)

I have to say, I wish they would sort this out - the white lines demark the edge of the track. Drivers wouldn't willingly go outside them unless it means they can go faster. Have grass or gravel the other side of the white lines (and kerbs where applicable) and suddenly you'll see that F1 drivers can keep the car on track. It's also worth noting that drivers seem not to exceed track limits at circuits like Monaco and Montreal. :scratchchin:


I don't think even Max believes that his overtake was kosher (he explicitly said he would rather have lost from the time penalty than have to give the place back). What I think is stupid is that overtaking off track is considered getting an advantage but running wide to shave off a tenth a lap for 40 laps, thereby increasing Hamilton's lead and making it harder for Max to chase him down, is not "gaining an advantage." If a driver is going off track for 40 laps in a row, he isn't doing it for shits and giggles, there is clearly something he is gaining from it, thus getting an advantage. IMO only time going off track shouldn't count towards the warnings/penalties is when you outbrake yourself and have to recover. What's the point of having a track layout if we aren't enforcing track limits consistently?


I completely agree - it's just another example of inconsistency in F1. Why impose track limits on a specific turn for FP2, FP3 and qualifying, but not the race? Madness.


:checkmark: Track limits should be enforced and penalties dished out by default - unless going off track causes a substantial disadvantage. The best drivers in the world should be able to handle this.

It's a joke when the FIA decides arbitrarily which corners they will enforce track limits at in Free Practice and then have that position negotiated down by the drivers before qualifying.

T18 wrote:
The FIA created this track limits issue them selves by electing to pave a track from left armco to right armco in the name of safety. Seems to me a good middle ground would be to replace the first meter or two of the edge with grass


Or make it so that there's a fall of ~20 cm from the track edge, forcing anyone who goes off to have to rejoin properly using the escape road. Kind of like the bollards they use at Barcelona and Sochi.
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:35 am

scbriml wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Honestly, it was a race won on strategy. Yes there were action, but not where it matters.


Strategy is, and always has been, a big part of F1. Three changes of race leader and wheel to wheel racing with less than a second between the front two for the last six laps isn't enough?


The action flattered to deceive. Let's see whether the racing remains close three races on.
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:54 pm

scbriml wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Honestly, it was a race won on strategy. Yes there were action, but not where it matters.


Strategy is, and always has been, a big part of F1. Three changes of race leader and wheel to wheel racing with less than a second between the front two for the last six laps isn't enough?

You mean one stop strategies is not good F1? Though that comes on how soft tires should be because too soft drivers can't push, to hard we get one stop strategies. Bahrain is a track that generally needs a two stop. I'm not sure about other tracks.
 
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:00 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
scbriml wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Honestly, it was a race won on strategy. Yes there were action, but not where it matters.


Strategy is, and always has been, a big part of F1. Three changes of race leader and wheel to wheel racing with less than a second between the front two for the last six laps isn't enough?

You mean one stop strategies is not good F1? Though that comes on how soft tires should be because too soft drivers can't push, to hard we get one stop strategies. Bahrain is a track that generally needs a two stop. I'm not sure about other tracks.


One-stop races don't have to be boring, but two-stoppers are often more exciting because many more strategy options are available. One-stopping at a typically two-stop circuit is a valid strategy that's sometimes employed, but I think it rarely produces a winner. That said, there are too many circuits where the drivers cruise around in the first stint to stretch it out and ensure a one-stopper. Monaco is a classic example - painfully slow first stint which the leader can dictate because overtaking is impossible unless someone makes a mistake.

I certainly wouldn't be opposed to making two stops compulsory by saying all three tyre compounds have to be used in the race and imposing a minimum number of laps that each compound has to be run (baring punctures or damage).
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:50 pm

scbriml wrote:
I certainly wouldn't be opposed to making two stops compulsory by saying all three tyre compounds have to be used in the race and imposing a minimum number of laps that each compound has to be run (baring punctures or damage).


Why don't we just choreograph the races full stop? Its getting to that point...

I must admit, I've not been that interested in this F1 season since around midway through the 2020 season, when the FIA and FOM removed engine modes and put in place extra restrictions for 2021 and beyond on the tech side of things - its just becoming a more expensive, more glamorous version of F2, and Im not interested in spec sports. 2022 brings with it huge aero restrictions, which coupled with last years and this years huge engine restrictions (because Redbull whined like babies), huge tech restrictions, huge budget restrictions (yay, lets restrict drivers pay because F1 can place an upper worth on them!) and now *testing* restrictions for successful teams (yay, whats next, success ballast?), F1 is just laughable these days.

I doubt I will even be following F1 next year.
 
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:23 pm

Race two has arrived and the F1 circus has moved to Imola for the Emilia Romagna Grand Prix.

After a very close qualifying session, the race should be another cracker. While the Mercedes has clearly improved from Bahrain and looks much more drivable here (but different track, different tyres and cooler temperatures), Red Bull is still looking the fastest overall and will probably be feeling they should have taken pole (both drivers made a mistake on their final Q3 runs to finish just a smidge behind Hamilton). Mercedes will be disappointed that Bottas only managed P8.

Big shout out to Norris who had a phenomenal qualifying and was briefly on the front row until his time was deleted for exceeding track limits. Gasly and Leclerc also qualifying well.

Some less than stellar qualifying though from Alonso (very nearly 0.5s behind Ocon) and Vettel (0.25s behind Stroll). Those are big gaps on a short lap for drivers with six WDCs between them. :shock:

Full qualifying result:
Image
Source: https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/latest
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:39 pm

Another action-packed race, with Verstappen taking a comfortable win (aside form one heart-stopping half-spin behind the safety car!) after passing Hamilton on the run to the first corner. Action and mayhem everywhere. A good recovery drive by Hamilton after sliding off the track while passing a backmarker and ending up a lap down. An excellent drive by Norris to pick up just his second career podium in the much improved McLaren.

Hamilton maintains the lead in the WDC by the single point he picked up for fastest lap at Imola.

Final result:
Image
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/latest
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:03 am

The only disappointment in the race is the TV cameras. It's like it is being run by amateurs.

Case in point, not catching the Bottas-Russell crash until it's too late. So we couldn't really tell whether it's true that Bottas had moved further into Russell, causing the Williams to inch off the track.
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T18
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:51 pm

Yeah the camera angles were not ideal for a lot of the circuit, not helped by the cams often being aimed the wrong way to catch anything either.
The only helpful angle of the Bottas Russell crash was the Onboard from Kimi and even that wasn't as clear as I'd like to see, it seemed to my eyes that Bottas began to move right but left just enough of a gap if only by an inch, but in my mind that far into that part of the track its a bit late to move. I can't wait for the tin foil hats to claim it was intentional to get Lewis a SC for a wave around (Just wait someone out there has got to be that daft).

I was really shocked to see Lewis make such a mistake kinda reminded me of Hockenheim a few years back. He was very fortunate that he was able to get out of that gravel trap.
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akiss20
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:14 pm

T18 wrote:
Yeah the camera angles were not ideal for a lot of the circuit, not helped by the cams often being aimed the wrong way to catch anything either.
The only helpful angle of the Bottas Russell crash was the Onboard from Kimi and even that wasn't as clear as I'd like to see, it seemed to my eyes that Bottas began to move right but left just enough of a gap if only by an inch, but in my mind that far into that part of the track its a bit late to move. I can't wait for the tin foil hats to claim it was intentional to get Lewis a SC for a wave around (Just wait someone out there has got to be that daft).

I was really shocked to see Lewis make such a mistake kinda reminded me of Hockenheim a few years back. He was very fortunate that he was able to get out of that gravel trap.


What happened to the rear-facing on-boards? It seems with modern miniaturization tech, it should be pretty trivial to get essentially full coverage of the car with the on-boards. Yes I know the teams hate cameras and what not, but it's the same for everyone so not like anyone gets an advantage or disadvantage. Was quite annoying that the best view we got of the incident was Kimi's on-board.

Max did a super job at the start and just kept it going. Seems he can't catch much of a break with respect to luck in the championship. The one time Lewis screws up, he gets saved. The red flag really helped Lewis maintain his standing in the points.
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StarAC17
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:38 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
The only disappointment in the race is the TV cameras. It's like it is being run by amateurs.

Case in point, not catching the Bottas-Russell crash until it's too late. So we couldn't really tell whether it's true that Bottas had moved further into Russell, causing the Williams to inch off the track.


At the time of the crash they were battling for points and Lewis had just gone off so that was the focus of coverage. This sport is simply that fast that you can miss a crash if you aren't focused on it.
I am pretty new to F1 but I thought the replay of the crash after it happened was done well. Not to mention them showing it multiple times after they had the drivers pit.

Also Toto knows who's fault is was and he is disciplining the children now :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Aesma
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:18 pm

I don't think Lewis' mistake was that big, passing lapped cars is always tricky, it's not like they stop for you usually (sometimes they do) and of course you don't want to lose momentum so you must go as fast as possible. He ended up doing that on water with slick tires, big problem. The way to avoid that would probably have been to wait after the corner, a difficult choice.

Half the drivers if not more had spins, including Max ! Some had them regularly for the whole race, starting before the race in fact for a couple...

In the end I don't know if it even cost Lewis anything, because clearly the Mercedes has been massively slowed down, and it's only at the top thanks to his skill. Passing Max with a very small speed advantage would have been very difficult.

There was an opportunity during the pit stop but it was a slow stop. Just after that 4.0s one they did Bottas in 2.2s !

Very childish reaction from Russel. I'm not sure Bottas saw him so it's possible he has some responsibility in the crash, but there was no need for Russel to go hit him, especially after such a big crash. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets some punishment for that.

I see that he has issued a groveling apology.

The crash itself, well, he crashed by himself, basically. There was enough room, he had to stick to his line and it would have been a beautiful overtake. Or maybe Bottas would have crashed into him, the crash would have been similar but Bottas would really have been at fault.

I remember a couple of similar overtakes, one at Spa I think, with the car passing between the other car and a wall. Here the wall was further away, but wet grass isn't a good place to put a wheel onto.
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Aesma
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:19 pm

BTW when Max had his moment 1 or 2 cars behind him had the opportunity to pass but didn't, bad choice ! When Perez went out the 2nd car that passed him seemed to do it deliberately.
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Grizzly410
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:18 pm

Russel apologized in his social media, he doesn't blame himself for the crash but recognize his reaction was inapropriate.
Poor Bottas, fighting in 9th position with a Mercedes is such an embarrassment. I'm afraid his prime time passed without being able to challenge Hamlton consistently.

After the Quali I was hopeful for Perez to win the GP and put max pressure on Max, starting with the red tyres with fresh temp was looking like a good opportunity, but in the end it's again a very bad result when comparing to Max. :ashamed:

There's much more to say about all teams, but I'll just stick with my biggest disapointment : Alpine.
Signing Alonso so early last year was a stupid move but on top they managed to mess with the 2021 car... Seems they will fight with Alfa Romeo and Williams to get some point here or there :banghead:
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:05 am

I really don't get why people are ganging up on Russell because he slapped Bottas's helmet. Did nobody realize that Bottas raised the finger to Russell first and Russell's slap was in reaction to it?

Honestly, Bottas should be the one being critiqued. He has a Mercedes and he was nowhere in the race. It's not like he slid off the track and rejoined last. He started 8 and never progressed!
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Reinhardt
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:34 am

Yeah there's a couple of things with that. Bottas in a Merc down in 8th, not far off being lapped. He should never of been in the position of George challenging him in the first place. It happens to Bottas sometimes, some races he's right on it, others he's just nowhere. For Merc this season I think this could be a real problem with a very fast Red Bull and two drivers that should be constantly in the top 1-3 places (if Checo gets the hang of the obvious very hard to drive RB).

As for George, my opinion - He had DRS, incredibly high closure speed. Only one dry line and off line it was clearly still wet and he was on dry tyres. You can see the dry line is halfway down his car, so his right tyres are on the wet. In the dry if this was happening Bottas would have been further over to the left, just like every other driver was during an overtake at this point. Since there was only the drive line he was further over, and he didn't continue to stay further over to the left, he stayed closer to the centre of the track (to keep on the dry line as much as possible). Obviously this left George with part the car on the wet, his route was through was clearly narrowing, he moved a tiny bit to the right and dipped a wheel on the white line, wheels lost traction and he span. I agree with the stewards, racing accident. Bottas could have stayed more to the left, but why should he have done.. he could have span out too. George perhaps should have known this with the track in the condition it was, but there was a clear massive gap at the point he started to pull to the right and when his front wheels were along side there was still more than enough space to make it through.

The only way it could not have happen was if he stayed behind Bottas, but with the closure speed he had a probably a second to decide yes or no. It's instinct. Next time with the wet, he'll think twice. I don't have any issue with him going up to Bottas after the crash. Emotions run high and he's only human.

What wasn't good for him was to say that if it was anyone else Bottas would have acted differently. That was obviously going to cause problems with Toto, and if there's one guy don't want to do that if you are a Merc driver it's him. Lesson learn't lets hope and no lasting damage. I really want to see him in the Merc next year next to Hamilton or whoever else if he decides to call it a day. We need someone else to be able to take it to Max.
 
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Aesma
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:48 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I really don't get why people are ganging up on Russell because he slapped Bottas's helmet. Did nobody realize that Bottas raised the finger to Russell first and Russell's slap was in reaction to it?

Honestly, Bottas should be the one being critiqued. He has a Mercedes and he was nowhere in the race. It's not like he slid off the track and rejoined last. He started 8 and never progressed!


Bottas was still in his car after a major crash. Quite winded, we could see that even minutes later. In his mind (and in reality) a noob just slammed into him at 300Km/h and sent him into the wall. And the guy comes to see him, not to see if he's OK, but to complain ?
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mad99
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:32 am

I only got to see the start and the first 20 lops or so, luckily f1 posts race highlights soon after.

Max did a great job even if he almost lost it at the restart. Ham second after a trip through the gravel, so strong it looks like merc is the team to beat. NOL solid job to get 3rd
RIC is not proving to be faster than NOL. Checo I’ve never rated him as anything but average and he continues to prove it. Racing point must be kicking themselves, removing a paying driver that gets fair results with a paid drive who can’t beat his paying driver teammate. Carlos proves he’s a number two. Top 8 cars within 0,5 sec, looks like we might have an interesting season!
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:48 am

Aesma wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I really don't get why people are ganging up on Russell because he slapped Bottas's helmet. Did nobody realize that Bottas raised the finger to Russell first and Russell's slap was in reaction to it?

Honestly, Bottas should be the one being critiqued. He has a Mercedes and he was nowhere in the race. It's not like he slid off the track and rejoined last. He started 8 and never progressed!


Bottas was still in his car after a major crash. Quite winded, we could see that even minutes later. In his mind (and in reality) a noob just slammed into him at 300Km/h and sent him into the wall. And the guy comes to see him, not to see if he's OK, but to complain ?


With the car Bottas had, he shouldn't have been there in the first place. He may not be a noob, but he's certainly not worthy of that Mercedes seat.
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akiss20
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:42 pm

I thought Wolff's statement about George was pretty BS.

"The whole situation should have never happened. Valtteri had a bad first 30 laps and should have never been in that position, but George should never have launched into this manoeuvre considering that the track was drying up -- it meant taking risk and the other car in front of him was Mercedes....Any driver development, any young driver, must never lose this global perspective. Lots to learn for him I guess....You need to see that there is a Mercedes and it's wet, so there is a certain risk to overtake and the odds are against him anyway when the track is drying up."

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/3128 ... ttas-clash

So from my reading, he is basically saying George shouldn't have tried the move not because it was risky, but because it was risky and the car he was trying to pass was a Merc. While Russell is a junior Merc member, he is at Williams which is not even a Merc junior team. Russell has a duty to his team to try and do as best as he can, even if that means making Merc look worse. It's not like Horner said that Gasly and Kyvat shouldn't race Albon, and AT is actually a RB junior team. Maybe Russell screwed up and tried an overly risky move on Bottas, but the fact that Bottas was in a Merc should have nothing to do with whether or not he decides to make the move.

I know in reality these politics will always come into it, but it's pretty gross IMO for Wolff to say that outright.
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StarAC17
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:53 pm

mad99 wrote:
I only got to see the start and the first 20 lops or so, luckily f1 posts race highlights soon after.

Max did a great job even if he almost lost it at the restart. Ham second after a trip through the gravel, so strong it looks like merc is the team to beat. NOL solid job to get 3rd
RIC is not proving to be faster than NOL. Checo I’ve never rated him as anything but average and he continues to prove it. Racing point must be kicking themselves, removing a paying driver that gets fair results with a paid drive who can’t beat his paying driver teammate. Carlos proves he’s a number two. Top 8 cars within 0,5 sec, looks like we might have an interesting season!


Checo did some dumb things on Sunday but has a very good race in Bahrain, starting from the pits to 5th.
Lets see what he can do with Redbull and hopefully Horner gives him a shot for the season and do something like bring Albon back even thought Albon got hosed last year as did Gasly the year before.

Aston Martin made the mistake letting him go because it looks like Vettel is done and probably should retire after this season.

Questions remain about Riccardo and how good he is. He should be the number one at Mclaren and competing with/outperforming Norris but two races in he is looking like he is where he will be for the rest of the season.
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:03 pm

akiss20 wrote:
I thought Wolff's statement about George was pretty BS.

"The whole situation should have never happened. Valtteri had a bad first 30 laps and should have never been in that position, but George should never have launched into this manoeuvre considering that the track was drying up -- it meant taking risk and the other car in front of him was Mercedes....Any driver development, any young driver, must never lose this global perspective. Lots to learn for him I guess....You need to see that there is a Mercedes and it's wet, so there is a certain risk to overtake and the odds are against him anyway when the track is drying up."

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/3128 ... ttas-clash

So from my reading, he is basically saying George shouldn't have tried the move not because it was risky, but because it was risky and the car he was trying to pass was a Merc. While Russell is a junior Merc member, he is at Williams which is not even a Merc junior team. Russell has a duty to his team to try and do as best as he can, even if that means making Merc look worse. It's not like Horner said that Gasly and Kyvat shouldn't race Albon, and AT is actually a RB junior team. Maybe Russell screwed up and tried an overly risky move on Bottas, but the fact that Bottas was in a Merc should have nothing to do with whether or not he decides to make the move.

I know in reality these politics will always come into it, but it's pretty gross IMO for Wolff to say that outright.


Exactly. I'm pretty pissed of at Wolff for saying such nonsense. This is why I think we can't let F1 be dependent only on limited manufacturers.
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akiss20
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:42 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
mad99 wrote:
I only got to see the start and the first 20 lops or so, luckily f1 posts race highlights soon after.

Questions remain about Riccardo and how good he is. He should be the number one at Mclaren and competing with/outperforming Norris but two races in he is looking like he is where he will be for the rest of the season.


I mean give the guy a second, he's had two races in the car to Lando's 2 years, and it's not like Lando is just some talentless pay driver; he has skills and is very driven to improve himself (you can hear on the radio whenever he messes up how high a standard he holds himself to, even when his engineer is complementing him). If he was falling behind a rookie in the car or someone the likes of Mazepin (groan) i'd have more questions about his talent. I think his time at RB demonstrated the guy's a darn good driver.
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Aesma
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:52 pm

I'm critical of Russell but I agree that Toto's statement is BS. In fact Russell not attempting the pass would be worse for him, for Williams and for Mercedes. The trick was not to crash, or to abort the pass when it proved difficult.
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StarAC17
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:59 pm

akiss20 wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
mad99 wrote:
I only got to see the start and the first 20 lops or so, luckily f1 posts race highlights soon after.

Questions remain about Riccardo and how good he is. He should be the number one at Mclaren and competing with/outperforming Norris but two races in he is looking like he is where he will be for the rest of the season.


I mean give the guy a second, he's had two races in the car to Lando's 2 years, and it's not like Lando is just some talentless pay driver; he has skills and is very driven to improve himself (you can hear on the radio whenever he messes up how high a standard he holds himself to, even when his engineer is complementing him). If he was falling behind a rookie in the car or someone the likes of Mazepin (groan) i'd have more questions about his talent. I think his time at RB demonstrated the guy's a darn good driver.


Fair point and I hope you are right. I want Riccardo to be successful and I think him being successful is very good for F1.
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akiss20
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:02 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
akiss20 wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:


I mean give the guy a second, he's had two races in the car to Lando's 2 years, and it's not like Lando is just some talentless pay driver; he has skills and is very driven to improve himself (you can hear on the radio whenever he messes up how high a standard he holds himself to, even when his engineer is complementing him). If he was falling behind a rookie in the car or someone the likes of Mazepin (groan) i'd have more questions about his talent. I think his time at RB demonstrated the guy's a darn good driver.


Fair point and I hope you are right. I want Riccardo to be successful and I think him being successful is very good for F1.


I agree. Wish he had a shot at the championship but with the insanely dominant Merc, RB being the all Max show all the time, and Ferrari just completely imploding, there really doesn't seem to be a path for him to do so.
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mad99
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:28 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
mad99 wrote:
I only got to see the start and the first 20 lops or so, luckily f1 posts race highlights soon after.

Max did a great job even if he almost lost it at the restart. Ham second after a trip through the gravel, so strong it looks like merc is the team to beat. NOL solid job to get 3rd
RIC is not proving to be faster than NOL. Checo I’ve never rated him as anything but average and he continues to prove it. Racing point must be kicking themselves, removing a paying driver that gets fair results with a paid drive who can’t beat his paying driver teammate. Carlos proves he’s a number two. Top 8 cars within 0,5 sec, looks like we might have an interesting season!


Checo did some dumb things on Sunday but has a very good race in Bahrain, starting from the pits to 5th.
Lets see what he can do with Redbull and hopefully Horner gives him a shot for the season and do something like bring Albon back even thought Albon got hosed last year as did Gasly the year before.

Aston Martin made the mistake letting him go because it looks like Vettel is done and probably should retire after this season.

Questions remain about Riccardo and how good he is. He should be the number one at Mclaren and competing with/outperforming Norris but two races in he is looking like he is where he will be for the rest of the season.



Red bull had to hire someone so Checo got a one year contract. Kinda says a lot about the way they get young drivers. Albon is on the scrap heap. Gastly needs to get out before he’s dropped. Daniil was dropped then came back to do nothing. RIC could see the writing on the wall and left, smart boy. Carlos was lucky. MAX beat him then he was loaned to Renault so the HULK could beat him then he got a ride with McLaren and did alright.

I agree with you AM and RIC comments. Unfortunately for RIC as I’d love to see McLaren back in the mix.
 
PHLspecial
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:34 pm

Aesma wrote:
I'm critical of Russell but I agree that Toto's statement is BS. In fact Russell not attempting the pass would be worse for him, for Williams and for Mercedes. The trick was not to crash, or to abort the pass when it proved difficult.

Exactly, Russell took the risk for the overtake and took himself out and Bottas. There is always risk pulling off overtakes matter how easy or hard. I get it Russell was fuming but what he did was not smart in the heat of the moment. Hopefully him and Bottas can shake hands and be done with it.
 
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:37 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
Questions remain about Riccardo and how good he is. He should be the number one at Mclaren and competing with/outperforming Norris but two races in he is looking like he is where he will be for the rest of the season.

All the new drivers struggle this last race. I hope Riccardo gets up to speed quickly because that Mclaren is special this year. I'm so excited for the rest of the season.
 
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akiss20
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:46 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I'm critical of Russell but I agree that Toto's statement is BS. In fact Russell not attempting the pass would be worse for him, for Williams and for Mercedes. The trick was not to crash, or to abort the pass when it proved difficult.

Exactly, Russell took the risk for the overtake and took himself out and Bottas. There is always risk pulling off overtakes matter how easy or hard. I get it Russell was fuming but what he did was not smart in the heat of the moment. Hopefully him and Bottas can shake hands and be done with it.



I think all this drama about the moment between Russell and Bottas is being so overblown (to be clear, not by you PHL, just in general). They were hopped up on adrenaline, Bottas gave him the finger, Russell tapped his helmet. Not the most mature move on either side, but we've all been angry before, most of us have probably reacted inappropriately, and basically none of us have been in a 190MPH crash. Let them shake hands and move on.
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