Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 23
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 4803
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:17 pm

That was a good race. I'm very impressed by Gasly and Ocon who both drove incredible races inspite of some terrible calls from the pitwall (Ocon pitted five times, Gasly spent most of the race on the wrong tire). Very impressed by both Ferrari's drivers too - Carlos proved that he's got rallying in his blood.

Shout out to Nikita Mazespin for finishing 40 something seconds behind his teammate (who in turn was more than a minute behind the race leader) despite the red flag half way through the race.

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I really don't get why people are ganging up on Russell because he slapped Bottas's helmet. Did nobody realize that Bottas raised the finger to Russell first and Russell's slap was in reaction to it?

Honestly, Bottas should be the one being critiqued. He has a Mercedes and he was nowhere in the race. It's not like he slid off the track and rejoined last. He started 8 and never progressed!


Fully agree. Bottas is a joke, he has no business whatsoever being ninth and getting overtaken by a Williams whilst driving the fastest car. His performance at Turkey last year was equally shocking. I know that Toto doesn't want his other driver to be too competitive, least it might delay or prevent Lewis break lots of records, but this is just getting embarrassing. Time to promote Russell. Or Ocon. Actually I'm sure Gasly would love the opportunity to leave the Red Bull program....
Aesma wrote:
Bottas was still in his car after a major crash. Quite winded, we could see that even minutes later. In his mind (and in reality) a noob just slammed into him at 300Km/h and sent him into the wall. And the guy comes to see him, not to see if he's OK, but to complain ?


This was Russell's first very high speed crash so I'm inclined to extend some leniency in light of that considering all the adrenaline pumping through him. I'd agree with you fully if we were talking about a veteran driver who's been through loads of these crashes.


akiss20 wrote:
So from my reading, he is basically saying George shouldn't have tried the move not because it was risky, but because it was risky and the car he was trying to pass was a Merc. While Russell is a junior Merc member, he is at Williams which is not even a Merc junior team. Russell has a duty to his team to try and do as best as he can, even if that means making Merc look worse. It's not like Horner said that Gasly and Kyvat shouldn't race Albon, and AT is actually a RB junior team. Maybe Russell screwed up and tried an overly risky move on Bottas, but the fact that Bottas was in a Merc should have nothing to do with whether or not he decides to make the move.


I agree with you completely. Remember that Gasly got quite racy with Albon last year. Resulting in "they race me so hard".

I think Toto is angry that his decision to keep extending Valtteri's contract is looking increasingly questionable.

Honestly, from Russell's point of view, the big consequence of what he said to the media after the race is that it shifted the narrative towards questioning his behavior. If he hadn't then everyone would have been talking about how bad Valtteri's race pace was and how do Mercedes justify keeping him (kinda like Albon's situation for most of last year).

StarAC17 wrote:
I want Riccardo to be successful and I think him being successful is very good for F1.


I used to be in this camp until recently but, to be honest, I've grown tired of his attitude. Yes he can be funny but he also seems to have lost the ability to take anything seriously. He's taken the whole being a clown thing a bit too far.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4279
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:52 pm

Fully agree. Bottas is a joke, he has no business whatsoever being ninth and getting overtaken by a Williams whilst driving the fastest car. His performance at Turkey last year was equally shocking. I know that Toto doesn't want his other driver to be too competitive, least it might delay or prevent Lewis break lots of records, but this is just getting embarrassing. Time to promote Russell. Or Ocon. Actually I'm sure Gasly would love the opportunity to leave the Red Bull program....


Mercedes has to really think about what their goal is this year. I know they want Lewis to get title number 8, however Bottas has to be productive or its very likely that Red Bull takes the constructors championship with Lewis or Verstappen eeking out a title. Toto defended Bottas after the crash but was telling him to hurry up leading up to it.

Checo had a very bad race on Sunday and overtook on the first safety car after spinning out leading to a penalty and then wiping out later on in the race. I don't expect that from him going forward and he will be very competitive with Bottas this season.
 
Virtual737
Posts: 1298
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:38 am

Valtteri, George is faster than you. George is faster than you.
 
CRJockey
Posts: 354
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:54 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:18 pm

Just realized this thread exists. Interesting comments and quite fitting to my renewed interest in F1.

Any opinions here about Toto's comments regarding "being streched" on the cost cap? Seems awfully whiny, to be honest, if it only takes on 90% "hull loss" to be at that point. What happens if another crash happens next race? Firing the cleaning team in the offices to save money?

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mercedes-very-stretched-on-cost-cap-after-bottass-crash-with-russell-in.47XgjhVcRHrgYJbHRpPmlg.html
 
User avatar
scbriml
Topic Author
Posts: 20322
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:12 pm

CRJockey wrote:
Just realized this thread exists. Interesting comments and quite fitting to my renewed interest in F1.

Any opinions here about Toto's comments regarding "being streched" on the cost cap? Seems awfully whiny, to be honest, if it only takes on 90% "hull loss" to be at that point. What happens if another crash happens next race? Firing the cleaning team in the offices to save money?

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mercedes-very-stretched-on-cost-cap-after-bottass-crash-with-russell-in.47XgjhVcRHrgYJbHRpPmlg.html


He has something of a point. Writing off an entire F1 car and engine/gearbox (if that is indeed the case) is not a trivial cost. In the days of a cost cap, such a replacement is going to have to come from somewhere and it's going to be money that could have been spent on something else. I have seen estimates that it would cost $1 million to replace.

While I think the cost cap is a good thing for F1, in my opinion teams should be able to replace a car destroyed in an accident (as long as it's 100% like-for-like) as an exception to the cap.
 
User avatar
Grizzly410
Posts: 552
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 8:38 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:44 am

scbriml wrote:
CRJockey wrote:
Just realized this thread exists. Interesting comments and quite fitting to my renewed interest in F1.

Any opinions here about Toto's comments regarding "being streched" on the cost cap? Seems awfully whiny, to be honest, if it only takes on 90% "hull loss" to be at that point. What happens if another crash happens next race? Firing the cleaning team in the offices to save money?

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mercedes-very-stretched-on-cost-cap-after-bottass-crash-with-russell-in.47XgjhVcRHrgYJbHRpPmlg.html


He has something of a point. Writing off an entire F1 car and engine/gearbox (if that is indeed the case) is not a trivial cost. In the days of a cost cap, such a replacement is going to have to come from somewhere and it's going to be money that could have been spent on something else. I have seen estimates that it would cost $1 million to replace.

While I think the cost cap is a good thing for F1, in my opinion teams should be able to replace a car destroyed in an accident (as long as it's 100% like-for-like) as an exception to the cap.


For me it's the opposite, I find normal replacement cost for a destroyed car on track to be included in the cap and wouldn't want it to be removed.
I mean that's an issue for three teams only, all others team doesn't have spare ressources the top teams have. For a normal team a crash always meant less money for other things..

That's just a shame for Mercedes because it's early in the season, would it happen in the middle of the summer there is a lot of elements that would have been end of life anyway making it less problematic.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:14 pm

F1 to introduce sprint qualifying this year at 3 races. Two European venues and one non-European

Sprint Qualifying will see the drivers battle it out over 100km on Saturday afternoons of the selected Grand Prix weekends, with the result from Sprint Qualifying then deciding the starting grid for Sunday’s full distance Grand Prix.
The new format will also see the grid for the Sprint Qualifying decided on Friday afternoon, using the current qualifying format, with cars entering Parc Ferme conditions from the start of Friday qualifying – while there’ll be one 60-minute practice session on both Friday and Saturday mornings.


https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... xK4sK.html
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 5117
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:41 am

Grizzly410 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
CRJockey wrote:
Just realized this thread exists. Interesting comments and quite fitting to my renewed interest in F1.

Any opinions here about Toto's comments regarding "being streched" on the cost cap? Seems awfully whiny, to be honest, if it only takes on 90% "hull loss" to be at that point. What happens if another crash happens next race? Firing the cleaning team in the offices to save money?

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mercedes-very-stretched-on-cost-cap-after-bottass-crash-with-russell-in.47XgjhVcRHrgYJbHRpPmlg.html


He has something of a point. Writing off an entire F1 car and engine/gearbox (if that is indeed the case) is not a trivial cost. In the days of a cost cap, such a replacement is going to have to come from somewhere and it's going to be money that could have been spent on something else. I have seen estimates that it would cost $1 million to replace.

While I think the cost cap is a good thing for F1, in my opinion teams should be able to replace a car destroyed in an accident (as long as it's 100% like-for-like) as an exception to the cap.


For me it's the opposite, I find normal replacement cost for a destroyed car on track to be included in the cap and wouldn't want it to be removed.
I mean that's an issue for three teams only, all others team doesn't have spare ressources the top teams have. For a normal team a crash always meant less money for other things..

That's just a shame for Mercedes because it's early in the season, would it happen in the middle of the summer there is a lot of elements that would have been end of life anyway making it less problematic.


If it has this big an effect on another team, and the title is in the balance, one can easily see a team pulling a Piquet Jr/Renault to hinder another team...
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4279
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:19 am

Grizzly410 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
CRJockey wrote:
Just realized this thread exists. Interesting comments and quite fitting to my renewed interest in F1.

Any opinions here about Toto's comments regarding "being streched" on the cost cap? Seems awfully whiny, to be honest, if it only takes on 90% "hull loss" to be at that point. What happens if another crash happens next race? Firing the cleaning team in the offices to save money?

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mercedes-very-stretched-on-cost-cap-after-bottass-crash-with-russell-in.47XgjhVcRHrgYJbHRpPmlg.html


He has something of a point. Writing off an entire F1 car and engine/gearbox (if that is indeed the case) is not a trivial cost. In the days of a cost cap, such a replacement is going to have to come from somewhere and it's going to be money that could have been spent on something else. I have seen estimates that it would cost $1 million to replace.

While I think the cost cap is a good thing for F1, in my opinion teams should be able to replace a car destroyed in an accident (as long as it's 100% like-for-like) as an exception to the cap.


For me it's the opposite, I find normal replacement cost for a destroyed car on track to be included in the cap and wouldn't want it to be removed.
I mean that's an issue for three teams only, all others team doesn't have spare ressources the top teams have. For a normal team a crash always meant less money for other things..

That's just a shame for Mercedes because it's early in the season, would it happen in the middle of the summer there is a lot of elements that would have been end of life anyway making it less problematic.


Might get interesting later in the year especially if this comes true. It is predicted in this article that Hamilton and Verstappen will have a crash this year. It might not be a total write-off but that will cost more money.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/jolyon-pa ... ble-crash/

Also we are now broke with all of our crashes, and are a bunch of of wankers.

Signed,

Guenther Steiner :stirthepot: :stirthepot:
 
User avatar
scbriml
Topic Author
Posts: 20322
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:16 am

moo wrote:
Grizzly410 wrote:
scbriml wrote:

He has something of a point. Writing off an entire F1 car and engine/gearbox (if that is indeed the case) is not a trivial cost. In the days of a cost cap, such a replacement is going to have to come from somewhere and it's going to be money that could have been spent on something else. I have seen estimates that it would cost $1 million to replace.

While I think the cost cap is a good thing for F1, in my opinion teams should be able to replace a car destroyed in an accident (as long as it's 100% like-for-like) as an exception to the cap.


For me it's the opposite, I find normal replacement cost for a destroyed car on track to be included in the cap and wouldn't want it to be removed.
I mean that's an issue for three teams only, all others team doesn't have spare ressources the top teams have. For a normal team a crash always meant less money for other things..

That's just a shame for Mercedes because it's early in the season, would it happen in the middle of the summer there is a lot of elements that would have been end of life anyway making it less problematic.


If it has this big an effect on another team, and the title is in the balance, one can easily see a team pulling a Piquet Jr/Renault to hinder another team...


I can see a situation towards the end of a long season where a team simply doesn't have the budget left to replace a destroyed car (regardless of cause :wink2: ). That wouldn't be a good look for F1.
 
User avatar
Grizzly410
Posts: 552
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 8:38 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:57 am

scbriml wrote:
moo wrote:
Grizzly410 wrote:

For me it's the opposite, I find normal replacement cost for a destroyed car on track to be included in the cap and wouldn't want it to be removed.
I mean that's an issue for three teams only, all others team doesn't have spare ressources the top teams have. For a normal team a crash always meant less money for other things..

That's just a shame for Mercedes because it's early in the season, would it happen in the middle of the summer there is a lot of elements that would have been end of life anyway making it less problematic.


If it has this big an effect on another team, and the title is in the balance, one can easily see a team pulling a Piquet Jr/Renault to hinder another team...


I can see a situation towards the end of a long season where a team simply doesn't have the budget left to replace a destroyed car (regardless of cause :wink2: ). That wouldn't be a good look for F1.


Sure it wouldn't look good. But it shouldn't happen because it would mean team management failure. They all have datas about these costs, they just have to budget with a safety margin and they'll be safe of being short of budget.
Of course a team may want to reduce the safety margin and spend more in car development and evolution. But as the balance risk/benefit between being less competitive but scoring points and not having a car on the grid goes heavily to the former, I think any team willing to do that would do it very carefuly.

If a team have a season with a spectacular number of crash, or is victim of dirty tactic, to the point a confortable safety margin isn't enough I'm pretty sure the F1 management would find a solution to ensure a complete grid anyway.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Topic Author
Posts: 20322
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:22 pm

F1 and the teams have now agreed the format of the trial of “sprint qualifying” that will run at three of this season’s races-

Friday:
FP1 - normal 60min session.
Parc Ferme conditions start after FP1 and run to end of race.
Qualifying - to decide grid order for Sprint Qualifying on Saturday (same three-part format as normal). Only soft tyres to be used.

Saturday:
FP2 - normal 60min session (despite parc ferme rules, suspension & braking changes can be made, plus changes "for safety reasons").
Sprint Qualifying - 100km race. Finishing order decides grid order for GP on Sunday. WDC and WCC points awarded - P1 = 3, P2 = 2, P3 = 1. Free tyre choice, no compulsory pit stops.

Sunday:
GP - normal format race. Free choice of tyres, but at least two difference compounds must be used.


I'm struggling to see much point in FP2 given parc ferme conditions (even with the allowed exceptions), but there you go.
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 5117
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:52 pm

scbriml wrote:
That wouldn't be a good look for F1.


The *only* time the FIA gives even a small toss about what looks good and what does not look good is when its trying to get something from the teams - see the weekends Formula E fiasco for example, the FIA blamed it on the lead driver rather than their own rules and arbitrary energy reductions! They didn't care that the situation was allowed to arise in the first place because of their shoddy rules.
 
Armadillo1
Posts: 647
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:14 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:34 am

https://www.racefans.net/2021/04/28/fea ... idle-mode/

my english is bad
Then we came with another upgrade in the Bahrain test, which was literally a bolt-on extra that was suddenly another seven or eight tenths in horsepower

what he mean?
not 0.7-0.8hp
may be 0.7-8sec from lap by power only?
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 4803
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:06 pm

CRJockey wrote:
Any opinions here about Toto's comments regarding "being streched" on the cost cap? Seems awfully whiny, to be honest, if it only takes on 90% "hull loss" to be at that point. What happens if another crash happens next race? Firing the cleaning team in the offices to save money?


It's just politicking. Toto is opposed to the cost-cap and wants it either gone or raised. Thus he might as well try and get some mileage out of the present situation. IIRC the cost cap isn't even enforceable this season.

scbriml wrote:
He has something of a point. Writing off an entire F1 car and engine/gearbox (if that is indeed the case) is not a trivial cost. In the days of a cost cap, such a replacement is going to have to come from somewhere and it's going to be money that could have been spent on something else. I have seen estimates that it would cost $1 million to replace.

While I think the cost cap is a good thing for F1, in my opinion teams should be able to replace a car destroyed in an accident (as long as it's 100% like-for-like) as an exception to the cap.


Uhhh wake up! This has been affecting the small teams for years. You think $1,000,000 of damage in a single crash isn't going to affect the development program of someone like Haas or Williams? It's only being talked about now because there's finally the prospect of it hurting a big team. And one whose Team Principal has a lot of clout.

Matthew Carter (ex Lotus team CEO) talked about this on the Missed Apex Podcast a while ago.


scbriml wrote:
F1 and the teams have now agreed the format of the trial of “sprint qualifying” that will run at three of this season’s races-


Interesting how it's no longer a "Sprint Race" but is now "Sprint Qualifying". I think that's a good decision and makes the new format potentially erode much less of the value of the normal race. It's after all called a 'Grand Prix' for a reason.

I'm still of the opinion that this new format is likely going to be gimmicky and make the actual race less interesting, but let's see.

Armadillo1 wrote:
may be 0.7-8sec from lap by power only?


Yes.

Over the whole of the Turbo-Hybrid era Mercedes has done an absolute masterclass in playing down their own strengths and playing up their competitors strengths. They always turn the engine down once they have the lead by a comfortable margin, Toto will insist in post-race interview that Ferrari and Red Bull are very close and Lewis has mastered the art of keeping a straight face as he insists that his latest win is a miracle (despite starting on the front row).

Unfortunately much of the F1 community has a habit of believing everything that Mercedes say. That engine mode ban thing last year was a good example.

Mercedes did a really good job of playing down their true dominance and was successful in having that dominance enshrined by the FIA's insane engine token system. This largely made it impossible for their rivals to make any big leaps in terms of catching up in a timely manner.

You just know that if Ferrari were in that same position they'd be incredibly arrogant about it, do races where they'd lap the whole field twice and essentially ensure that a technical shakeup would be imposed to end their dominance.
Last edited by zkojq on Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Virtual737
Posts: 1298
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:12 pm

zkojq wrote:
I'm still of the opinion that this new format is likely going to be gimmicky and make the actual race less interesting, but let's see.


The teams need to give it a proper trial with 100% commitment or lose their ability to criticise any stagnation.

I was looking forward to the dynamic qualifying that was "trialed" a few years ago. it wasn't rocket science and even the dopiest of race fans could have understood it if they'd have shut their mouths and opened their ears for just a few minutes.

What the teams did was, in my opinion only of course, disgraceful. They turned it into a farce and of course it died a very quick death without learning any of the potential positives from it.
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 5117
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:19 pm

zkojq wrote:
IIRC the cost cap isn't even enforceable this season.


This is the first season its enforced.


zkojq wrote:
Uhhh wake up! This has been affecting the small teams for years. You think $1,000,000 of damage in a single crash isn't going to affect the development program of someone like Haas or Williams? It's only being talked about now because there's finally the prospect of it hurting a big team. And one whose Team Principal has a lot of clout.


So? Those cheaper teams are there voluntarily - there is no promotion to F1, there is no invitation they have to accept, they all voluntarily apply to join each season and voluntarily sign up to the Concorde agreement, so those teams who are bitching and moaning about not having the money to compete can quite frankly STFU and go compete in a sport they can actually afford IMHO.

But no, the "answer" is to cheapen the entire sport and cripple those teams willing to do what it takes to actually be competitive. Because for some reason actually putting time, effort and money in is baaaaad. next up, participation trophies for Haas et al.

The FIA and Liberty seem to have no issues with costs when it comes to changing the rules, which are often one of the most costly aspects of F1.

zkojq wrote:
Interesting how it's no longer a "Sprint Race" but is now "Sprint Qualifying". I think that's a good decision and makes the new format potentially erode much less of the value of the normal race. It's after all called a 'Grand Prix' for a reason.

I'm still of the opinion that this new format is likely going to be gimmicky and make the actual race less interesting, but let's see.


I agree, its going to be gimmicky crap and its not going to "improve the show" at all.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Topic Author
Posts: 20322
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:31 am

The Canadian GP has now been dropped after F1 was unable to find a way around Canada's strict quarantine rules. The race on 13th June will now be held in Turkey.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... ahSVF.html

Whilst I'm disappointed to lose the Canadian GP, I'm glad we get another race in Turkey, although being in mid-June bad weather is unlikely to give us the spectacle it did last season.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Topic Author
Posts: 20322
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:53 am

moo wrote:
I agree, its going to be gimmicky crap and its not going to "improve the show" at all.


I would not be surprised to see things really processional at the front after the first couple of laps. Given we have a normal qualifying session for the sprint race, we're very likely to see the two Red Bulls and two Mercedes on the first two rows. After the first lap or two, I can't see any of those drivers making a big move to try and overtake, knowing that if they happen to crash out or lose their front wing, they'll probably start the GP near the back. There may well be more action in the mid-field though, with teams desperate to get a better GP starting position.
 
marcelh
Posts: 1627
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:31 am

scbriml wrote:
The Canadian GP has now been dropped after F1 was unable to find a way around Canada's strict quarantine rules. The race on 13th June will now be held in Turkey.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... ahSVF.html

Whilst I'm disappointed to lose the Canadian GP, I'm glad we get another race in Turkey, although being in mid-June bad weather is unlikely to give us the spectacle it did last season.


They can always resurface the track in Turkey by the end of May....
 
User avatar
fortytwoeyes
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:56 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:12 am

moo wrote:
I agree, its going to be gimmicky crap and its not going to "improve the show" at all.

I just don't understand how "must improve the weekend format" is the hill they've chosen to die on for years now. F1 has problems that need solving, but the format isn't one of them.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Topic Author
Posts: 20322
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun May 02, 2021 12:40 pm

After what seemed like a long two weeks, we're back in action with this Sunday's Portuguese GP from Portimao. The weekend has so far been dominated by the wind and a low-grip circuit (although it's not as slippery as it was last year). Lots of drivers struggling through practice and qualifying and a few surprises along the way.

Qualifying results:
Image
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/latest

Qualifying didn't produce the last gasp pole for anyone - apart from Bottas, all Q3 times were slower than Q2 times and second runs slower than first runs. Mercedes even tried the medium tyre for their second run in Q3 (they did the same last year). Verstappen actually set the fastest time in Q3, but had it deleted for exceeding track limits. To say he was disappointed at the end would be an understatement. So, some would say, no change at the front, but probably not the top three order that many would have predicted. With Mercedes seeming to take longer to get their tyres working, the first couple of laps could be excited with the Red Bulls chasing hard.

Further back:
Sainz qualified well and comfortably beat Leclerc.
Norris looking impressive and completely overshadowing a poor performance from Ricciardo.
Ocon doing the same to Alonso.
Seems odd to be saying it, but well done to Vettel for making Q3!
Mazepin - oh dear.
 
marcelh
Posts: 1627
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun May 02, 2021 4:34 pm

Nice race!
Hamilton first, Verstappen second and Bottas third. Bottas can qualify, but lacks the driving skills like Hamilton and Verstappen. Hamilton showed once more you have to be very good to defeat him. Verstappen wasn’t able to fight Hamilton and second place is “Max-imizing” the result.
And Perez at fourth place showed why RBR took him as second driver.

Next weekend: BARCELONA!
 
User avatar
scbriml
Topic Author
Posts: 20322
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun May 02, 2021 11:32 pm

Full race result:
Image
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/latest

Not the worst race by any means, but not quite the excitement or drama of the first two races. On the medium tyres, it looked pretty close between Mercedes and Red Bull, but Mercedes definitely stronger on the hard tyres. Bottas might have caught Verstappen if he didn't have a sensor issue that dropped him back.

Verstappen went for fastest lap on the very last lap but had it deleted for exceeding track limits at T14. This seemed to cause much confusion and ire at RB, but it was announced on Saturday that this would be the case. Someone (or everyone) at RB dozing.

Best of the rest:
Norris for a very solid drive to finish P5. Good points for Alpine and McLaren.

Worst of the rest:
Raikkonen for driving into his team mate along the main straight while looking at his steering wheel!
The rookies - Tsunoda not so great after a good first race, next two have been forgettable. Decent effort from Schumacher to beat one of the Williams.

Worst of the worst:
Who else? Mazepin - how is he in an F1 car?
 
marcelh
Posts: 1627
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 03, 2021 7:22 am

scbriml wrote:
Verstappen went for fastest lap on the very last lap but had it deleted for exceeding track limits at T14. This seemed to cause much confusion and ire at RB, but it was announced on Saturday that this would be the case. Someone (or everyone) at RB dozing.


Dozing? IMO RB is doing it deliberately to fire up the discussion about track limits.
 
User avatar
mad99
Posts: 1292
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:33 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 03, 2021 6:06 pm

Disappointing gp. Looks like we’re in for another merc year, HAM controlling the pace with max able to do the one off quick lap but not able to really challenge.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14949
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 03, 2021 7:14 pm

marcelh wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Verstappen went for fastest lap on the very last lap but had it deleted for exceeding track limits at T14. This seemed to cause much confusion and ire at RB, but it was announced on Saturday that this would be the case. Someone (or everyone) at RB dozing.


Dozing? IMO RB is doing it deliberately to fire up the discussion about track limits.


Are people complaining about track limits ?
 
Concierge
Posts: 112
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:18 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 03, 2021 7:32 pm

Has anyone heard that Pato O'Ward of IndyCar may leap to F1?
 
User avatar
T18
Posts: 886
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:28 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 03, 2021 7:45 pm

Aesma wrote:
marcelh wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Verstappen went for fastest lap on the very last lap but had it deleted for exceeding track limits at T14. This seemed to cause much confusion and ire at RB, but it was announced on Saturday that this would be the case. Someone (or everyone) at RB dozing.


Dozing? IMO RB is doing it deliberately to fire up the discussion about track limits.


Are people complaining about track limits ?


I mean I am but mostly that we shouldn't be paving armco to armco if we don't want driver to abuse it.
 
User avatar
Moose135
Posts: 3259
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:27 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 03, 2021 9:00 pm

Concierge wrote:
Has anyone heard that Pato O'Ward of IndyCar may leap to F1?

Zak Brown, McLaren CEO, promised him a test in their F1 car if he won. After his win yesterday at Texas, Brown tweeted "A deal’s a deal. What a win! See you in Abu Dhabi later this year!”

O'Ward said his "heart is with IndyCar" but if Brown offered him a ride in F1, he would be "pretty dumb not to take it".
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 5117
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 03, 2021 10:35 pm

Aesma wrote:
marcelh wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Verstappen went for fastest lap on the very last lap but had it deleted for exceeding track limits at T14. This seemed to cause much confusion and ire at RB, but it was announced on Saturday that this would be the case. Someone (or everyone) at RB dozing.


Dozing? IMO RB is doing it deliberately to fire up the discussion about track limits.


Are people complaining about track limits ?


Yes, check out the Autosport forums. Mainly the usual whines tho.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4279
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 03, 2021 10:42 pm

Aesma wrote:
marcelh wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Verstappen went for fastest lap on the very last lap but had it deleted for exceeding track limits at T14. This seemed to cause much confusion and ire at RB, but it was announced on Saturday that this would be the case. Someone (or everyone) at RB dozing.


Dozing? IMO RB is doing it deliberately to fire up the discussion about track limits.


Are people complaining about track limits ?


On his post race press conference. Verstappen wasn't pleased when he was informed that his fastest lap was deleted as he wasn't aware. While he finished 2nd he did not have that great of a weekend. I saw the overhead of him at the end of the race and he totally when off track.

Granted he is probably frustrated because he had pole taken away in qualifying and in Bahrain he had to relinquish his place to Hamilton but both time he exceeded track limits. Verstappen is not a fan of the Portuguese Grand Prix.
https://www.racefans.net/2021/05/03/i-h ... erstappen/

Red Bull's complaint would be that the FIA isn't not calling these violations on Mercedes or other teams. They could have an argument but but you still broke the rules. Too bad.
 
Concierge
Posts: 112
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:18 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 03, 2021 11:13 pm

Moose135 wrote:
Concierge wrote:
Has anyone heard that Pato O'Ward of IndyCar may leap to F1?

Zak Brown, McLaren CEO, promised him a test in their F1 car if he won. After his win yesterday at Texas, Brown tweeted "A deal’s a deal. What a win! See you in Abu Dhabi later this year!”

O'Ward said his "heart is with IndyCar" but if Brown offered him a ride in F1, he would be "pretty dumb not to take it".


Love it!
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed May 05, 2021 5:33 pm

mad99 wrote:
Disappointing gp. Looks like we’re in for another merc year, HAM controlling the pace with max able to do the one off quick lap but not able to really challenge.

Redbull struggled with this track and plenty of teams struggled with tires as well. I hope the next race Redbull swings back.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Topic Author
Posts: 20322
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sat May 08, 2021 11:02 pm

Hola! It's time for the Spanish GP from Barcelona.

Qualifying produced a very tight battle with Lewis Hamilton claiming an historic 100th pole position by just 0.036s from Max Verstappen. Again, we saw a slightly odd finish to qualifying with none of the pole contenders able to set a faster time on their second run.

Image
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/latest

Notable performances outside of top three:
Leclerc qualifying in P4 - but will Ferrari's race pace match their qualifying performance?
Ocon in P5 - comfortably out-qualifying his illustrious team mate and splitting the Ferraris.
Ricciardo in P7 - not as high as he'd like, but notable because he beat Norris who's been in very good form lately (Norris was hamstrung by having to use an extra set of tyres after his first run in Q2 was badly compromised by a traffic jam on the last corner.)

Notable performances for the wrong reasons:
Perez - Verstappen really needed Perez to be up at the sharp end to help in the battle with the Mercs, but after spinning during his first run in Q3, his second run was lacklustre, ending up P8,1s behind his team mate. Being reported that he's carrying a shoulder injury.
Tsunoda - after impressing in the first race, he's looked like the rookie he is. His qualifying ended ignominiously after dropping his rear tyre in the gravel, leading to him launching into a foul-mouthed tirade complaining about his car!
Mazepin - penalised (harshly some might feel) for screwing up Norris's lap, he was again comfortably the slowest driver.

So, very tight at the front. Barcelona has a long history or somewhat processional races. Whoever leads after the first couple of corners will be a strong favourite for the win, but there's a long run from the grid to T1, so expect some brief excitement before what might be a somewhat dull race.

Congratulations to Hamilton on a remarkable achievement. :champagne:
 
User avatar
mad99
Posts: 1292
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:33 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun May 09, 2021 10:23 am

Looks like it’s going to be a snoozefest with ham leading, I hope I’m wrong. Here in mad it’s start to rain with showers forecasted but bcn shows dry
 
astuteman
Posts: 7507
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun May 09, 2021 5:35 pm

mad99 wrote:
Looks like it’s going to be a snoozefest with ham leading, I hope I’m wrong. Here in mad it’s start to rain with showers forecasted but bcn shows dry


You were wrong, it seems. Hungary 2019 - sorry - Barcelona 2021 ( :) ) had plenty of suspense as well as some masterclass driving .....

Rgds
 
User avatar
scbriml
Topic Author
Posts: 20322
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun May 09, 2021 10:19 pm

Well, quite an exciting race for Barcelona! A tactical battle up front with Hamilton adopting a two-stop strategy to chase down and overtake Verstappen who had taken the lead at the start on the long run from the grid to turn one.

Plenty of action in the mid-field, but the chase at the front was probably more one for the connoisseur. Just like Hungary in 2019, Hamilton chased down a 23s lead in something like 17 laps. After a while it seemed inevitable that he would pass Verstappen. In my mind, Red Bull missed the chance to change their strategy. Watching live, I very confidently told my wife that Mercedes would pit Hamilton immediately after seeing a rare shoddy pit stop for Verstappen. Apparently I had my confused face on for quite a while after Hamilton sailed past the pit entry the next lap! The penny dropped when Hamilton pitted just a few laps later - he's two stopping! Even then, I thought that Red Bull could and probably should have brought Verstappen in for a second stop and a set of brand new softs to at least give him the chance to chase Hamilton down.

So, Hamilton racks up his 98th win after taking his 100th pole on Saturday. Quite an achievement. Worryingly, for those that thought he might be past his peak, this is actually his best ever start to an F1 season. If Verstappen thought he had a chance this season, he now realises it's going to take a monumental effort to unseat Hamilton.

Other notable performances:
Bottas - for the wrong reasons. Let Leclerc get past him (but not on the long drag to T1) and took a long time to recover. He then ignored a team request to not hold up Hamilton who was then behind Bottas after his second stop, forcing Hamilton to have to do a proper overtake which was estimated to cost him 1.5s in his chase of Verstappen. Was this the action of a man who knows his services will not be required next season?
Leclerc - an excellent drive. Managed to jump Bottas on the first lap and kept him behind for quite a while. Finished a long way behind the winner, but a very solid drive.
Ricciardo - after qualifying ahead of teammate Norris, he managed to finish ahead of the other Ferrari of Sainz.
Ocon - a very solid drive after an excellent qualifying session. The Alpine's race pace not as good as its qualifying, but Ocon is currently making Alonso look very ordinary.

[b]The hall of shame[/i]:
Alonso - tried a one-stop strategy, but the car was never really quick enough for that and a late second stop left him only ahead of the two HAAS drivers.
Mazepin - for not the first time, and I doubt the last, Mazepin was a chicane on wheels. He finished two laps down and his fastest lap was 1.4s slower than Schumacher in the other HAAS.

Classified result:
Image
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/20 ... ix/results
 
User avatar
scbriml
Topic Author
Posts: 20322
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun May 09, 2021 10:21 pm

astuteman wrote:
mad99 wrote:
Looks like it’s going to be a snoozefest with ham leading, I hope I’m wrong. Here in mad it’s start to rain with showers forecasted but bcn shows dry


You were wrong, it seems. Hungary 2019 - sorry - Barcelona 2021 ( :) ) had plenty of suspense as well as some masterclass driving .....

Rgds


Indeed. As Hamilton's race engineer said after the Bahrain GP, "Not bad for an old man!"
 
marcelh
Posts: 1627
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 10, 2021 6:15 am

scbriml wrote:
Even then, I thought that Red Bull could and probably should have brought Verstappen in for a second stop and a set of brand new softs to at least give him the chance to chase Hamilton down.


Hamilton was just too quick at the mediums. Also Verstappen couldn’t come in much earlier, because he would also had to deal with Bottas. Only when Bottas stopped for the second time, Verstappen was able to make his second stop without losing his second place.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Topic Author
Posts: 20322
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 10, 2021 10:20 am

marcelh wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Even then, I thought that Red Bull could and probably should have brought Verstappen in for a second stop and a set of brand new softs to at least give him the chance to chase Hamilton down.


Hamilton was just too quick at the mediums. Also Verstappen couldn’t come in much earlier, because he would also had to deal with Bottas. Only when Bottas stopped for the second time, Verstappen was able to make his second stop without losing his second place.


Verstappen and Hamilton are pushing each other to an amazing degree. I honestly don’t think Bottas nor Perez would have been able to keep them behind for very long at all. Look what happened to Bottas leading in Portimao.
 
User avatar
T18
Posts: 886
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:28 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 10, 2021 1:50 pm

marcelh wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Even then, I thought that Red Bull could and probably should have brought Verstappen in for a second stop and a set of brand new softs to at least give him the chance to chase Hamilton down.


Hamilton was just too quick at the mediums. Also Verstappen couldn’t come in much earlier, because he would also had to deal with Bottas. Only when Bottas stopped for the second time, Verstappen was able to make his second stop without losing his second place.


Correct, although I'm baffled why they didn't pit the lap after Bottas, there was no chance to win on those tires anyway but with enough laps Max may have been able to make up 15-20 secs to try and bring the fight back, oh well. RBR really needs Perez to get that extra bit to be in play to prevent the Mercs from being able to play around with the strategy so much.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 10, 2021 4:15 pm

The last chicane needs to go. The 90 left right is not fun at all. Maybe a chicane that doesn't have a 90 degree turn would be fine. Or a triple chicane because why not
 
User avatar
T18
Posts: 886
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:28 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 10, 2021 4:27 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
The last chicane needs to go. The 90 left right is not fun at all. Maybe a chicane that doesn't have a 90 degree turn would be fine. Or a triple chicane because why not


I would recommend the video Josh Revell did on youtube this past week as some good and a few insane options to replace that chicane.
 
User avatar
Narfish641
Posts: 492
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:14 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 10, 2021 11:56 pm

I wonder if its possible if Jerez would be a good Spanish GP replacement? Other than that so far the season has been pretty good so far. But I am most excited for the Baku Street Course, Turkey, COTA, Red Bull Ring, and Suzuka. All are pretty great racing courses.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Topic Author
Posts: 20322
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue May 11, 2021 9:59 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
The last chicane needs to go. The 90 left right is not fun at all. Maybe a chicane that doesn't have a 90 degree turn would be fine. Or a triple chicane because why not


There are media reports that the FIA is actively considering returning to the original layout for F1.

Narfish641 wrote:
I wonder if its possible if Jerez would be a good Spanish GP replacement? Other than that so far the season has been pretty good so far. But I am most excited for the Baku Street Course, Turkey, COTA, Red Bull Ring, and Suzuka. All are pretty great racing courses.


Unless the UK government allows F1 an exemption from current Covid restrictions (two weeks quarantine in a hotel), the GP in Turkey won't happen.


In other "interesting" news - the FIA is to introduce new tests for rear wings in an effort to stamp down on some clever flexibility that reduces drag at high speed by 'rotating' the rear wing.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia- ... s/6507003/
Article 3.9.9 of F1’s Technical Regulations states: “The FIA reserves the right to introduce further load/deflection tests on any part of the bodywork which appears to be (or is suspected of), moving whilst the car is in motion.”

The FIA note details a series of new tests that are being introduced and focus on the characteristics of a wing that rotates backwards at speed. The current regulations check on bodywork not deflecting either one degree horizontally, or 3mm vertically, when certain forces are attached to them.

For the new test, the FIA is focusing on the behaviour of wings as they rotate backwards.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4279
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue May 11, 2021 11:19 pm

scbriml wrote:
marcelh wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Even then, I thought that Red Bull could and probably should have brought Verstappen in for a second stop and a set of brand new softs to at least give him the chance to chase Hamilton down.


Hamilton was just too quick at the mediums. Also Verstappen couldn’t come in much earlier, because he would also had to deal with Bottas. Only when Bottas stopped for the second time, Verstappen was able to make his second stop without losing his second place.


Verstappen and Hamilton are pushing each other to an amazing degree. I honestly don’t think Bottas nor Perez would have been able to keep them behind for very long at all. Look what happened to Bottas leading in Portimao.


I think Bottas had a legitimate shot at catching Verstappen later in that race but had a sensor issue that put him back.

I do think Checo is going to be a challenge eventually with Redbull it just depends on when. Will Mercedes get too much of a lead for it to matter at the end of the season.

Bottas - for the wrong reasons. Let Leclerc get past him (but not on the long drag to T1) and took a long time to recover. He then ignored a team request to not hold up Hamilton who was then behind Bottas after his second stop, forcing Hamilton to have to do a proper overtake which was estimated to cost him 1.5s in his chase of Verstappen. Was this the action of a man who knows his services will not be required next season?


It's the actions of a competitor and its a lose lose for him. Also Lewis wants a deal before the summer break ends so if they retain Lewis and go with Russell then the expectation is for him to do the same.

I feel bad for Bottas. He clearly is not as good as Hamilton but he is a competitor and repeatedly asking him to not hold up Hamilton would be frustrating to anyone. Thankfully Mercedes doesn't do it a lot but I agree on Sunday it was appropriate to get out of the way.

Toto thankfully can relate to this. Also if Checo becomes competitive this might be an issue for Redbull as well and I don't think Horner is as diplomatic as Toto.

https://www.racefans.net/2021/05/10/wol ... lton-past/
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4279
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue May 11, 2021 11:24 pm

Unless the UK government allows F1 an exemption from current Covid restrictions (two weeks quarantine in a hotel), the GP in Turkey won't happen.


Why would this matter? The UK Grand Prix is in July and Turkey is June 11-13 with France 2 weeks after. Why would the teams need to go into the UK during that timeframe?

The only thing I can think of is that many teams facilities are in the UK. Is that the reason?
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 5117
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed May 12, 2021 12:00 am

StarAC17 wrote:
Unless the UK government allows F1 an exemption from current Covid restrictions (two weeks quarantine in a hotel), the GP in Turkey won't happen.


Why would this matter? The UK Grand Prix is in July and Turkey is June 11-13 with France 2 weeks after. Why would the teams need to go into the UK during that timeframe?

The only thing I can think of is that many teams facilities are in the UK. Is that the reason?


The track-side staff don't "do nothing" between races - they are also often part of the development and production teams, so for them to stay away from the factories for that duration means you lose 2 weeks of development and production at full pelt. Which is why the Turkish GP wont happen unless theres an exemption.
 
marcelh
Posts: 1627
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed May 12, 2021 4:50 am

scbriml wrote:
In other "interesting" news - the FIA is to introduce new tests for rear wings in an effort to stamp down on some clever flexibility that reduces drag at high speed by 'rotating' the rear wing.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia- ... s/6507003/
Article 3.9.9 of F1’s Technical Regulations states: “The FIA reserves the right to introduce further load/deflection tests on any part of the bodywork which appears to be (or is suspected of), moving whilst the car is in motion.”

The FIA note details a series of new tests that are being introduced and focus on the characteristics of a wing that rotates backwards at speed. The current regulations check on bodywork not deflecting either one degree horizontally, or 3mm vertically, when certain forces are attached to them.

For the new test, the FIA is focusing on the behaviour of wings as they rotate backwards.


Interesting. So the current design complies to the rules, but someone doesn’t like it (Mercedes?) and has complained by the FIA. Why hasn’t the FIA done the same with the DAS system last year?
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 23

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: FGITD, pune, Tugger, zakuivcustom and 30 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos