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scbriml
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed May 12, 2021 11:02 am

StarAC17 wrote:
Unless the UK government allows F1 an exemption from current Covid restrictions (two weeks quarantine in a hotel), the GP in Turkey won't happen.


Why would this matter? The UK Grand Prix is in July and Turkey is June 11-13 with France 2 weeks after. Why would the teams need to go into the UK during that timeframe?

The only thing I can think of is that many teams facilities are in the UK. Is that the reason?


Yes, the issue is that most of the F1 teams have staff that are based in UK. Any staff that returned to the UK after the Turkish GP would have to isolate in a hotel for two weeks, which would mean they can't really work, can't see their families and wouldn't be able to travel to France for the French GP. It would be too disruptive.

That's with the UK rules as they stand today. Things could change, but the Turkish GP is only one month away.
 
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scbriml
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed May 12, 2021 11:17 am

marcelh wrote:
scbriml wrote:
In other "interesting" news - the FIA is to introduce new tests for rear wings in an effort to stamp down on some clever flexibility that reduces drag at high speed by 'rotating' the rear wing.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia- ... s/6507003/
Article 3.9.9 of F1’s Technical Regulations states: “The FIA reserves the right to introduce further load/deflection tests on any part of the bodywork which appears to be (or is suspected of), moving whilst the car is in motion.”

The FIA note details a series of new tests that are being introduced and focus on the characteristics of a wing that rotates backwards at speed. The current regulations check on bodywork not deflecting either one degree horizontally, or 3mm vertically, when certain forces are attached to them.

For the new test, the FIA is focusing on the behaviour of wings as they rotate backwards.


Interesting. So the current design complies to the rules, but someone doesn’t like it (Mercedes?) and has complained by the FIA. Why hasn’t the FIA done the same with the DAS system last year?


I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. It appears the FIA's notice to teams was worded in the plural, so multiple teams are suspected of having rear wing designs that do not meet the rules, but pass the current tests. So it's not the rules that are being changed, but the tests for conformity to the rules. No aero part can be totally rigid (and nobody expects that), but it seems some designs are flexing way too much when driven at speed, then revert to conformity as the car slows.

I don't know what the new tests will be, but the current ones are completely static with defined forces being applied in specific directions. It seems the engineers have designed wings that can pass the tests but doesn't conform to the rules when driven at high speed. Sneaky buggers!
 
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scbriml
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Thu May 13, 2021 8:35 am

Here's an excellent video that gives a side-by-side comparison of the rear wings of Verstappen's Red Bull and Bottas' Mercedes in Spain. The rules state the rear wing is limited to 3mm of vertical movement and one degree of horizontal movement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBWUefSl5tI
 
StarAC17
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Thu May 13, 2021 5:19 pm

scbriml wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
Unless the UK government allows F1 an exemption from current Covid restrictions (two weeks quarantine in a hotel), the GP in Turkey won't happen.


Why would this matter? The UK Grand Prix is in July and Turkey is June 11-13 with France 2 weeks after. Why would the teams need to go into the UK during that timeframe?

The only thing I can think of is that many teams facilities are in the UK. Is that the reason?


Yes, the issue is that most of the F1 teams have staff that are based in UK. Any staff that returned to the UK after the Turkish GP would have to isolate in a hotel for two weeks, which would mean they can't really work, can't see their families and wouldn't be able to travel to France for the French GP. It would be too disruptive.

That's with the UK rules as they stand today. Things could change, but the Turkish GP is only one month away.


If that's the case why would they run this race?

Now will the UK grant an exception as more than likely the teams will be in some degree of bubble during the GP I would think? How will this land with the the general public?

One of the reasons Canada was cancelled is that us regular folk would get pissed off if F1 crews had an exemption to the 2 week quarantine to an event that there would be no fans at to begin with.
 
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scbriml
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Thu May 13, 2021 10:29 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
Now will the UK grant an exception as more than likely the teams will be in some degree of bubble during the GP I would think? How will this land with the the general public?


I can't see them giving an exemption - they weren't prepared to give two English football teams an exemption to play in the Champions League final in Istanbul, but that game has now moved to Portugal.
 
StarAC17
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Fri May 14, 2021 1:11 pm

scbriml wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
Now will the UK grant an exception as more than likely the teams will be in some degree of bubble during the GP I would think? How will this land with the the general public?


I can't see them giving an exemption - they weren't prepared to give two English football teams an exemption to play in the Champions League final in Istanbul, but that game has now moved to Portugal.


Turkey is in fact cancelled. France moved up and Styrian added.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... aiN9e.html
 
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scbriml
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Fri May 14, 2021 1:23 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
Now will the UK grant an exception as more than likely the teams will be in some degree of bubble during the GP I would think? How will this land with the the general public?


I can't see them giving an exemption - they weren't prepared to give two English football teams an exemption to play in the Champions League final in Istanbul, but that game has now moved to Portugal.


Turkey is in fact cancelled. France moved up and Styrian added.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... aiN9e.html


Have to say I'm disappointed, but hardly surprised, to lose the Turkish GP, but adding a second at the Red Bull Ring is good - it rarely fails to provide some interest and/or excitement. An improved RB team will be desperate to get good results there.
 
StarAC17
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Fri May 14, 2021 9:26 pm

scbriml wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
scbriml wrote:

I can't see them giving an exemption - they weren't prepared to give two English football teams an exemption to play in the Champions League final in Istanbul, but that game has now moved to Portugal.


Turkey is in fact cancelled. France moved up and Styrian added.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... aiN9e.html


Have to say I'm disappointed, but hardly surprised, to lose the Turkish GP, but adding a second at the Red Bull Ring is good - it rarely fails to provide some interest and/or excitement. An improved RB team will be desperate to get good results there.


So I'm a new F1 fan. Will they do anything different with those two Grand Prix's (I'm not sure what they did last year)? If it were up to me I would reverse the direction on the track.

I like what they did in Bahrain where they used the shorter segment for the Sakhir Grand Prix.
 
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scbriml
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Fri May 14, 2021 10:34 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
So I'm a new F1 fan. Will they do anything different with those two Grand Prix's (I'm not sure what they did last year)? If it were up to me I would reverse the direction on the track.

I like what they did in Bahrain where they used the shorter segment for the Sakhir Grand Prix.


It's very difficult to simply reverse the direction of a certified F1 track. Run-off areas, barriers and gaps in the barriers are normally designed for cars racing in one direction only. Many circuits have multiple layouts (that all run in the same direction), but very few have more than one layout that's certified for F1.

What happened at Silverstone last year was that the tyre compounds were changed for the second race. For the British GP, the C1, C2 & C3 tyres were available, but for the 70th Anniversary GP a week later the compounds were C2, C3 & C4 (C1 is the hardest of the five dry weather tyres while C5 is the softest). That made a significant difference to the second race. That said, the same tyre compounds were used in both races at the Red Bull Ring last year.
 
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zkojq
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed May 19, 2021 3:20 pm

If Max can't win Monaco then the championship is basically over already.

moo wrote:
So? Those cheaper teams are there voluntarily - there is no promotion to F1, there is no invitation they have to accept, they all voluntarily apply to join each season and voluntarily sign up to the Concorde agreement, so those teams who are bitching and moaning about not having the money to compete can quite frankly STFU and go compete in a sport they can actually afford IMHO.


Congratulations, you now have a six team grid with Russell, Giovinazzi, Schumacher, Raikkonen, Gasly, Tsunoda and Vettel now unemployed! And also with Liam Lawson, Juri Vipps, Christian Lundgaard and Guanyu Zhou now very unlikely to ever make it into F1.

scbriml wrote:
Other notable performances:
Bottas - for the wrong reasons. Let Leclerc get past him (but not on the long drag to T1) and took a long time to recover. He then ignored a team request to not hold up Hamilton who was then behind Bottas after his second stop, forcing Hamilton to have to do a proper overtake which was estimated to cost him 1.5s in his chase of Verstappen. Was this the action of a man who knows his services will not be required next season?


IMO it is entertaining to see people blow this out of proportion. The man lets the team and his teammate walk all over him nearly every weekend but holding Lewis up for two or three corners at a race he won very comfortably anyway is suddenly a big deal? :roll:

scbriml wrote:
Ocon - a very solid drive after an excellent qualifying session. The Alpine's race pace not as good as its qualifying, but Ocon is currently making Alonso look very ordinary.


Ocon did an excellent job.....Unlike Alpine's pitwall who managed to mess up both drivers races by making them do one-stops when everyone else bar Raikkonen was doing two-stops. Fernando eventually fell off the tire cliff and was forced to make an extra pitstop a few laps from the end. Ocon managing to not only stay in the points, but to finish ninth was mighty impressive. I hope Monaco is better.
 
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scbriml
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed May 19, 2021 11:04 pm

zkojq wrote:
IMO it is entertaining to see people blow this out of proportion. The man lets the team and his teammate walk all over him nearly every weekend but holding Lewis up for two or three corners at a race he won very comfortably anyway is suddenly a big deal?


I don't think Bottas has let anyone "walk all over him". The simple fact is that most weekends he just isn't as fast as Hamilton when it matters. When Bottas has one of his very good weekends, he can out-qualify and beat Hamilton in the race. The problem for Bottas is that those weekends are few and far between. I would suggest that 'normal Bottas' is no match for 'normal Hamilton'.

I think Bottas is underrated by many because he has the misfortune to have Hamilton as a team-mate. That said, he does seem to be in a bit of a downward spiral performance-wise. He hasn't beaten Verstappen on-track for nine races.
 
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fortytwoeyes
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Thu May 20, 2021 3:15 pm

scbriml wrote:
Have to say I'm disappointed, but hardly surprised, to lose the Turkish GP, but adding a second at the Red Bull Ring is good - it rarely fails to provide some interest and/or excitement. An improved RB team will be desperate to get good results there.


I think having 2 races at the same circuit on the same layout is least interesting solution they could have found. I get why they had to do it last year, but I feel they could have come up with something more exciting for this year. Why not go to Nürburgring or Hockenheim instead?
 
StarAC17
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Thu May 20, 2021 3:45 pm

scbriml wrote:
zkojq wrote:
IMO it is entertaining to see people blow this out of proportion. The man lets the team and his teammate walk all over him nearly every weekend but holding Lewis up for two or three corners at a race he won very comfortably anyway is suddenly a big deal?


I don't think Bottas has let anyone "walk all over him". The simple fact is that most weekends he just isn't as fast as Hamilton when it matters. When Bottas has one of his very good weekends, he can out-qualify and beat Hamilton in the race. The problem for Bottas is that those weekends are few and far between. I would suggest that 'normal Bottas' is no match for 'normal Hamilton'.

I think Bottas is underrated by many because he has the misfortune to have Hamilton as a team-mate. That said, he does seem to be in a bit of a downward spiral performance-wise. He hasn't beaten Verstappen on-track for nine races.


I was watching a recording of the Spanish GP and Checo yielded for Verstappen after he pitted on lap 25 or so, in Imola Riccardo yielded to Norris as well. You can make the argument that Mercedes does this the least of the teams at the top of the grid.

I do not think if Bottas is winning the race and has the pace that Mercedes is going to have him yield to Hamilton on a regular basis (Sochi 2018 was an exception). In Barcelona, Hamilton did have the new tires and Bottas was slower. Mercedes did say that Hamilton was just outside of DRS on the main straight for the overtake to happen and that was the plan.

If put a young gun in there like Russell he is probably going to be more hungry that Bottas and that might create even more tensions.

fortytwoeyes wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Have to say I'm disappointed, but hardly surprised, to lose the Turkish GP, but adding a second at the Red Bull Ring is good - it rarely fails to provide some interest and/or excitement. An improved RB team will be desperate to get good results there.


I think having 2 races at the same circuit on the same layout is least interesting solution they could have found. I get why they had to do it last year, but I feel they could have come up with something more exciting for this year. Why not go to Nürburgring or Hockenheim instead?


I read a comment that one of the Austrian races should have sprint qualifying, that would mix it up a bit if that happened.
 
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moo
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Fri May 21, 2021 4:19 am

zkojq wrote:
If Max can't win Monaco then the championship is basically over already.

moo wrote:
So? Those cheaper teams are there voluntarily - there is no promotion to F1, there is no invitation they have to accept, they all voluntarily apply to join each season and voluntarily sign up to the Concorde agreement, so those teams who are bitching and moaning about not having the money to compete can quite frankly STFU and go compete in a sport they can actually afford IMHO.


Congratulations, you now have a six team grid with Russell, Giovinazzi, Schumacher, Raikkonen, Gasly, Tsunoda and Vettel now unemployed! And also with Liam Lawson, Juri Vipps, Christian Lundgaard and Guanyu Zhou now very unlikely to ever make it into F1.


Good, no great loss there anyway for any of them. And I have no problems with a six team grid - if the other teams are just there to make up the numbers, then they arent contributing to anything but noise, bustle and crowding on the circuit. Backmarkers get in the way, get blue flags and then get out of the way, they aren't contributing anything to an actual "race" imho - and we are still going to have back markers, because some teams will always have better staff than others, see how Williams crumpled for example even when they had money at the start of their downfall.

If a six team grid were indeed the case, Bottas would probably have been turfed out a few seasons ago and we would have seen Russell promoted imho.

If you do want to keep the other teams, how cheap should F1 get? If someone wanted to join but could only pony up $50m, should the cap now be $50m? How about $30m? $5m? Whats reasonable? And why is it reasonable? What happens when, at the end of this season or 2022, certain teams deride the cost cap because its not low enough and they still underspend? What happens when Christian Horner demands a $5m cap on engine development for 2025 and threatens to walk if he doesn't get it?
 
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fortytwoeyes
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sat May 22, 2021 11:32 pm

moo wrote:
Good, no great loss there anyway for any of them. And I have no problems with a six team grid - if the other teams are just there to make up the numbers, then they arent contributing to anything but noise, bustle and crowding on the circuit. Backmarkers get in the way, get blue flags and then get out of the way, they aren't contributing anything to an actual "race" imho

The list (correctly) includes two teams that won a race last year. If that doesn't fit your definition of "contributing" you're setting the bar way to high.

If you watch other forms of motorsport besides F1, you'll have seen plenty of championships spend themselves out of existence. That's why you have to find a model that works for more than the top teams.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun May 23, 2021 1:18 am

Interesting qualifying session we had. Leclerc on pole in his banged up Ferrari, Carlos looking like he still have some pace in hand, and Lewis further down the grid than he would have wanted.

Hopefully the race will be exciting!
 
StarAC17
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun May 23, 2021 6:36 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Interesting qualifying session we had. Leclerc on pole in his banged up Ferrari, Carlos looking like he still have some pace in hand, and Lewis further down the grid than he would have wanted.

Hopefully the race will be exciting!


Verstappen's reaction in the tunnel was priceless when his engineer told him that Leclerc hit the barrier. He thinks he would have got pole obviously.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/84806/li ... flags.html

I don't have a source for this but I saw on social media that Netflix is following Ferrari this weekend and with Leclerc getting poll and then crashing its going to make for some good TV next year. :bigthumbsup:
 
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scbriml
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun May 23, 2021 8:17 am

A fascinating weekend so far. Practice and qualifying throwing up a few surprises - none more so than Ferrari heading the field! We were being treated to a great battle for pole between Leclerc, Sainz, Verstappen and Bottas. Sadly, we were denied the grandstand finish we wanted when Leclerc smashed his car into the barrier exiting the swimming pool complex. This was a major frustration for the following drivers who had to abandon their fast laps with some threatening to beat Leclerc's time. We wait to see if Ferrari will have to change Leclerc's gearbox, incurring a grid penalty.

Other notable qualifying performances:
Norris only 0.3s off pole with Ricciardo struggling in 12th place.
Gasly driving well to bag P6.
Vettel did very well to qualify P8 and will start alongside Hamilton.

Notable for the wrong reasons - all the "senior" drivers:
Hamilton struggled to find a setup he was comfortable with all weekend. It will be a damage-limitation exercise starting from P7. His first task will be to avoid issues on lap one.
Raikkonen comfortably out-qualified by Giovinazzi.
Alonso really struggling in the Alpine (Ocon 0.5s quicker) and didn't even make it out of Q1!

Qualifying results (pending any penalties):
Image
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/latest
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun May 23, 2021 12:45 pm

Leclerc unable to start the race.

Such a disappointment! It seems the home GP curse strikes again.
 
Flanker7
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun May 23, 2021 6:38 pm

Excellent win by verstappen and what mess at Mercedes . Great podium though.
 
Newark727
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 24, 2021 4:25 am

This race kind of revealed to me how much of the whole excitement of Monaco is the possibility that somebody could slam his car into the barricades at any moment, and how little is in the actual racing, because there barely is any. Still, there's clearly a right way and a wrong way to do it, evidenced by Verstappen cruising and Mercedes having... issues.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 24, 2021 6:37 am

Absolutely terrible racing spectacle (do we expect anything else at Monaco these days?). A deserving win to Max and the red bull guys, at Monaco the aim is to not make mistakes and that’s what happened. Good for Perez and he really showed he is doing a great number 2 job. Mercedes dropped the ball here, Hamilton not firing and Bottas wheel issues. Mercedes giving Hamilton the undercut then not getting out ahead of Gasley or Vettel. Special shout to Norris who is coming in great guns this year.

All in all the people/teams who deserved the points got them but to watch it was very boring.

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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scbriml
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 24, 2021 3:59 pm

This post was delayed out of sheer boredom. What an appallingly boring "race" that was. Other than the dash to St Devote on the opening lap, the only on-track overtake for the whole 78 lap event was Schumachers "Oh god, I hope he leaves me space" lunge down the inside of Mazepin at Lowes Hairpin. No crashes, no Safety Car, even Mazepin let us down when we needed him most!

This was the poorest Monaco GP in some time, unless you're a Verstappen fan or enjoy watching Hamilton/Mercedes struggle.

The main events:
Mercedes - absolutely a day to forget. A very bad strategy call to pit Hamilton early, for him to promptly be overcut by Gasly, Vettel and Perez. Poor old Bottas - when he's finally delivering a decent race performance, they fuck him over on the pit stop with a wheel that couldn't be removed.
Ferrari - will have some serious explaining to do how they could be so confident nothing was wrong with Leclerc's car only for it to fail on the way to the grid. At least Sainz put in a decent performance to inherit P2 when Bottas race was destroyed by his team.

Notable performances:
Norris - he's really having a very good season so far notching his second podium. Say it quietly, he also lapped Ricciardo (that must have hurt).
Solid drives from Perez, Gasly and Vettel.
Alonso's less than spectacular return to F1 continues with a "meh" drive to finish P13 while Ocon was in the points at P9.
Oh yeah, some guy called Verstappen drove very steadily (as in sunday afternoon granny steady) to lead the entire race without ever being challenged. He now takes the lead of the WDC from Hamilton and Red Bull move ahead of Mercedes in the WCC.

Full result:
Image
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/20 ... ix/results
 
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T18
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 24, 2021 4:05 pm

Its amazing how much better the FE and Historiques races are at Monaco....
Somehow I found even despite any real on track action, I found Monaco still more watchable than the NASCAR 'race' @ COTA....
 
petertenthije
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 24, 2021 4:43 pm

scbriml wrote:
This post was delayed out of sheer boredom. What an appallingly boring "race" that was.

It’s Monaco, what did you expect? Unless someone crashes, this race is always decided in qualifying.

I am happy to see Verstappen won the race, and is leading now. I don’t expect this to be for long, because the Mercedes is a better car. Still, it’s good to see the #1 spot being contested, unlike previous seasons.
 
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Aesma
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 24, 2021 5:55 pm

Newark727 wrote:
This race kind of revealed to me how much of the whole excitement of Monaco is the possibility that somebody could slam his car into the barricades at any moment, and how little is in the actual racing, because there barely is any. Still, there's clearly a right way and a wrong way to do it, evidenced by Verstappen cruising and Mercedes having... issues.


I've been watching F1 for 16 years and Monaco is rarely exciting but here I noticed something that I couldn't remember from previous races (but maybe have just forgotten) : the pace was slow as snails. It's impossible to pass so even the leader in clear air goes much slower than he could. After watching him fly in quali, extremely close to the walls, the contrast to the race is gigantic.

Ferrari arrogance struck again. I wouldn't say it was the home GP curse, Leclerc made a mistake and paid the price (the broken car). It looks like a huge mistake but this turn is tricky as you must drive the car towards the barrier, expecting it to understeer and miss it, but it didn't.
 
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scbriml
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 24, 2021 10:09 pm

The 2021 season has sparked more excitement in five races than many seasons since the Turbo-Hybrid era began in 2014, but things sound as though they may start getting a bit nasty. Mercedes is threatening to protest Red Bull's rear wing if they run the same one they used in Spain which was seen to be moving considerably at racing speed. In return, Red Bull are threatening to protest Mercedes front wing which they claim flexes too much.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... -protests/
But while Mercedes have drawn attention to Red Bull’s rear wing, Christian Horner and co have then directed eyes towards Mercedes flexing front wing as seen back at the Emilia Romagna Grand Prix.

The accusations and finger pointing is set to culminate in official protests being lodged unless the FIA decide to take a firmer stance on what is permitted within the current regulations.
 
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scbriml
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 24, 2021 10:12 pm

petertenthije wrote:
It’s Monaco, what did you expect?


My expectations were low, but this was an awful "race" that failed to even meet my expectations. I really didn't miss Monaco last year.

Have it as a exhibition event, but it's a complete joke in a modern F1 car.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 24, 2021 11:24 pm

scbriml wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
It’s Monaco, what did you expect?


My expectations were low, but this was an awful "race" that failed to even meet my expectations. I really didn't miss Monaco last year.

Have it as a exhibition event, but it's a complete joke in a modern F1 car.


There were excitement further back in the pack, it's just that the TV director chose not to show it. Case in point, Vettel & Gasly running side by side up Beau Rivage with Hamilton close behind them.

Instead what we saw was Stroll going over the kerb at the Swimming Pool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuc813KkcaM
 
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fortytwoeyes
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon May 24, 2021 11:46 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
scbriml wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
It’s Monaco, what did you expect?


My expectations were low, but this was an awful "race" that failed to even meet my expectations. I really didn't miss Monaco last year.

Have it as a exhibition event, but it's a complete joke in a modern F1 car.


There were excitement further back in the pack, it's just that the TV director chose not to show it. Case in point, Vettel & Gasly running side by side up Beau Rivage with Hamilton close behind them.

Instead what we saw was Stroll going over the kerb at the Swimming Pool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuc813KkcaM


I was shouting at the TV at that point. I believe Monaco still uses their own TV director instead of the people who usually do it for FOM, which would explain the terrible quality of the broadcast there year after year.

Earlier in the thread I said they should stop messing about with the format because it's fine. For Monaco only, I'm officially retracting this statement. If that's how modern F1 cars race there, there's no point. Maybe run it as a 100 km time trial like cycling.
 
CRJockey
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue May 25, 2021 7:19 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
scbriml wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
It’s Monaco, what did you expect?


My expectations were low, but this was an awful "race" that failed to even meet my expectations. I really didn't miss Monaco last year.

Have it as a exhibition event, but it's a complete joke in a modern F1 car.


There were excitement further back in the pack, it's just that the TV director chose not to show it. Case in point, Vettel & Gasly running side by side up Beau Rivage with Hamilton close behind them.

Instead what we saw was Stroll going over the kerb at the Swimming Pool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuc813KkcaM


Yeah, we were watching the GP with friends and were basically jumping up from the chairs in anger that the TV director chose to cut the only interesting racing scene of the day. What a **** joke.

Anyway, racing-wise I agree with all whats said above. It isn't a race in those cars. F2 was far more bearable, if only for the rain and the smaller size of the cars. I still like the spectacle in Monaco, however. Of which there wasn't much this year.
 
CRJockey
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue May 25, 2021 7:22 am

scbriml wrote:
The 2021 season has sparked more excitement in five races than many seasons since the Turbo-Hybrid era began in 2014, but things sound as though they may start getting a bit nasty. Mercedes is threatening to protest Red Bull's rear wing if they run the same one they used in Spain which was seen to be moving considerably at racing speed. In return, Red Bull are threatening to protest Mercedes front wing which they claim flexes too much.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... -protests/
But while Mercedes have drawn attention to Red Bull’s rear wing, Christian Horner and co have then directed eyes towards Mercedes flexing front wing as seen back at the Emilia Romagna Grand Prix.

The accusations and finger pointing is set to culminate in official protests being lodged unless the FIA decide to take a firmer stance on what is permitted within the current regulations.


Agree. Finally things are happening in F1 again. And I see the mutual threat as a good sign. Mercedes seems to feel the breath in the neck for the first time since years and seem to use every angle to stay ahead. And I admit it: I like my little bit of trash talk going on better then the cuddly atmosphere.
 
CRJockey
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue May 25, 2021 7:29 am

moo wrote:
zkojq wrote:
If Max can't win Monaco then the championship is basically over already.

moo wrote:
So? Those cheaper teams are there voluntarily - there is no promotion to F1, there is no invitation they have to accept, they all voluntarily apply to join each season and voluntarily sign up to the Concorde agreement, so those teams who are bitching and moaning about not having the money to compete can quite frankly STFU and go compete in a sport they can actually afford IMHO.


Congratulations, you now have a six team grid with Russell, Giovinazzi, Schumacher, Raikkonen, Gasly, Tsunoda and Vettel now unemployed! And also with Liam Lawson, Juri Vipps, Christian Lundgaard and Guanyu Zhou now very unlikely to ever make it into F1.


Good, no great loss there anyway for any of them. And I have no problems with a six team grid - if the other teams are just there to make up the numbers, then they arent contributing to anything but noise, bustle and crowding on the circuit. Backmarkers get in the way, get blue flags and then get out of the way, they aren't contributing anything to an actual "race" imho - and we are still going to have back markers, because some teams will always have better staff than others, see how Williams crumpled for example even when they had money at the start of their downfall.

If a six team grid were indeed the case, Bottas would probably have been turfed out a few seasons ago and we would have seen Russell promoted imho.

If you do want to keep the other teams, how cheap should F1 get? If someone wanted to join but could only pony up $50m, should the cap now be $50m? How about $30m? $5m? Whats reasonable? And why is it reasonable? What happens when, at the end of this season or 2022, certain teams deride the cost cap because its not low enough and they still underspend? What happens when Christian Horner demands a $5m cap on engine development for 2025 and threatens to walk if he doesn't get it?


You seem to have adopted a very capitalist way of defining what interesting and fair sports competition looks like. And I don't mean that as offense, but rather as matter of fact description of a different philosophy.
Personally I find it supremely more interesting to see variety and a racing grid where between P1 and P10 there is just 8 to 10 tenth with a spending cap. Caps on spending also increases creativity, consideration and compromise for spending decisions, rather than brute force.

The NHL is a superb example of more interesting games and competition thanks to a salary cap while European football would be the opposite.
 
CRJockey
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue May 25, 2021 7:41 am

scbriml wrote:
[...]

The main events:
Mercedes - absolutely a day to forget. A very bad strategy call to pit Hamilton early, for him to promptly be overcut by Gasly, Vettel and Perez. Poor old Bottas - when he's finally delivering a decent race performance, they fuck him over on the pit stop with a wheel that couldn't be removed.
Ferrari - will have some serious explaining to do how they could be so confident nothing was wrong with Leclerc's car only for it to fail on the way to the grid. At least Sainz put in a decent performance to inherit P2 when Bottas race was destroyed by his team.

Notable performances:
Norris - he's really having a very good season so far notching his second podium. Say it quietly, he also lapped Ricciardo (that must have hurt).
Solid drives from Perez, Gasly and Vettel.
Alonso's less than spectacular return to F1 continues with a "meh" drive to finish P13 while Ocon was in the points at P9.
Oh yeah, some guy called Verstappen drove very steadily (as in sunday afternoon granny steady) to lead the entire race without ever being challenged. He now takes the lead of the WDC from Hamilton and Red Bull move ahead of Mercedes in the WCC.


Thanks scbriml. Enjoy your posts and come to the same conclusions.

While I think Bottas is overrrated as a driver as he is missing consistency and can put in his best laps only few and far in between, I feel for him for yet another time being heavily disadvantaged by mistakes Mercedes seem to make only on his car. Never on Hamiltons.
Ferrari botched it so hard, I am inclined to call it arrogance. I know its armchair-head-of-team'ing, but how could they believe after this impact, the car would be fine. After having had all night to check everything and anything.

Congrats to Norris. Beautiful though uneventful race. Happy for him despite it hurting me quite a bit, that Ricciardo isn't up to speed with this car.
Poor Gasly, that Red Bull was not patient enough to give him some time to adapt to the car some years back. A mistake Red Bull now made thrice with Albon and Kvyat.
Strong performance by Vettel and, I hate to say it, by Stroll, with a strong team performance strategy-wise at Aston Martin.

While I like Ocon since he joined Racing Point a while back and consider him putting in strong and consistent performances for Alpine, I feel putting back Alonso in that car is a huge mistake. I would have much rather seen a young driver from F2, or Kevin Magnussen in that seat. Alonso seemed to be a overly-conservative and cautious decision. And one that is not paying back.
 
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Aesma
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue May 25, 2021 8:17 am

Mercedes says Bottas stopped short of his mark and that caused the gun to be used at an angle, shearing off the ridges of the nut.
 
CRJockey
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue May 25, 2021 8:22 am

Aesma wrote:
Mercedes says Bottas stopped short of his mark and that caused the gun to be used at an angle, shearing off the ridges of the nut.


I find that hard to believe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LxNBMaMUSo If you look here at second 7, Bottas is as good in the box as expected. Nothing out of the ordinary. And the other three guys with the guns had no problem making it work.
 
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scbriml
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue May 25, 2021 12:08 pm

Aesma wrote:
Mercedes says Bottas stopped short of his mark and that caused the gun to be used at an angle, shearing off the ridges of the nut.


That sounds a bit like Mercedes throwing Bottas under the bus - he's almost spot on the marks at the front. Also three other wheels came off and were replaced at a pretty good speed.

What I did notice was the guy with the wheel-gun was bumped by a colleague, which seemed to cause him to lose his balance for a second. I wonder if that was enough to cause the issue? With all the technology available to F1, this seems a bit low-tech.

I understand that next season, all the wheel nuts and guns are to be standardised whereas currently the teams design/adapt their own.
 
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Grizzly410
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue May 25, 2021 12:46 pm

CRJockey wrote:
While I like Ocon since he joined Racing Point a while back and consider him putting in strong and consistent performances for Alpine, I feel putting back Alonso in that car is a huge mistake. I would have much rather seen a young driver from F2, or Kevin Magnussen in that seat. Alonso seemed to be a overly-conservative and cautious decision. And one that is not paying back.


I do agree, signing Alonso was a mistake, honestly I can't really understand why Renault felt so urgent to decide the driver to take Ricciardo seat...
I'm afraid Abitboul was so surprised by RIC move that he simply wanted to strike back as quick as possible and announce a big name ASAP, but in the process forgot that having a free seat is also a form of luxury.
 
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Aesma
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue May 25, 2021 1:08 pm

 
CRJockey
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue May 25, 2021 8:25 pm

Grizzly410 wrote:
CRJockey wrote:
While I like Ocon since he joined Racing Point a while back and consider him putting in strong and consistent performances for Alpine, I feel putting back Alonso in that car is a huge mistake. I would have much rather seen a young driver from F2, or Kevin Magnussen in that seat. Alonso seemed to be a overly-conservative and cautious decision. And one that is not paying back.


I do agree, signing Alonso was a mistake, honestly I can't really understand why Renault felt so urgent to decide the driver to take Ricciardo seat...
I'm afraid Abitboul was so surprised by RIC move that he simply wanted to strike back as quick as possible and announce a big name ASAP, but in the process forgot that having a free seat is also a form of luxury.


Indeed. Kinda miss Cyril, though. He was so full of emotion. In joy (signing RIC) and in pain (well, losing RIC).
 
StarAC17
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed May 26, 2021 5:40 am

scbriml wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Mercedes says Bottas stopped short of his mark and that caused the gun to be used at an angle, shearing off the ridges of the nut.


That sounds a bit like Mercedes throwing Bottas under the bus - he's almost spot on the marks at the front. Also three other wheels came off and were replaced at a pretty good speed.

What I did notice was the guy with the wheel-gun was bumped by a colleague, which seemed to cause him to lose his balance for a second. I wonder if that was enough to cause the issue? With all the technology available to F1, this seems a bit low-tech.

I understand that next season, all the wheel nuts and guns are to be standardised whereas currently the teams design/adapt their own.


That could be a factor or it could simply be the nut and bolt wearing out which happens from time to time and/or and could have been a cross thread. IIRC Bottas was complaining about this tire during the race up to this point so there may have been a wear issue due to a cross threaded nut and bolt. Granted if it was done at an angle with the speed these guns go its possible that the mechanic didn't know he was wearing down the nut initially. Usually with a slow speed you feel it but these things move fast but the shrapnel started coming out after several attempts.

Very Anecdotal, but I was removing my dad's winter tires a month ago and did one tire fine and in the process of doing the second one the jack would not move, I eventually got the car high enough to get the second tire on but couldn't for the life of me lower the jack. A neighbor used one of his to get the jack out and when we looked at it and the threads were just demolished. This is from hand pressure and not a 10,000 rpm pneumatic gun. This kind of thing does happen and its nobody's fault.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed May 26, 2021 12:59 pm

CRJockey wrote:
While I like Ocon since he joined Racing Point a while back and consider him putting in strong and consistent performances for Alpine, I feel putting back Alonso in that car is a huge mistake. I would have much rather seen a young driver from F2, or Kevin Magnussen in that seat. Alonso seemed to be a overly-conservative and cautious decision. And one that is not paying back.


Alonso's been out of the sports for 2 years. Plus, it's not like he's so much slower than Ocon - who has the advantage of seniority in the team. Yes, Alonso used to race for Renault, but let's not forget that was ages ago and I'm sure many of the old hands are no longer there.

All the drivers who switched teams are struggling. Maybe it's just a case of slowly adapting to new team dynamics.
 
CRJockey
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed May 26, 2021 2:50 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
CRJockey wrote:
While I like Ocon since he joined Racing Point a while back and consider him putting in strong and consistent performances for Alpine, I feel putting back Alonso in that car is a huge mistake. I would have much rather seen a young driver from F2, or Kevin Magnussen in that seat. Alonso seemed to be a overly-conservative and cautious decision. And one that is not paying back.


Alonso's been out of the sports for 2 years. Plus, it's not like he's so much slower than Ocon - who has the advantage of seniority in the team. Yes, Alonso used to race for Renault, but let's not forget that was ages ago and I'm sure many of the old hands are no longer there.

All the drivers who switched teams are struggling. Maybe it's just a case of slowly adapting to new team dynamics.


All but Sainz do struggle, right. But that wasn't really my point. There is no reason to believe that Magnussen, Grosjean, Albon, Kvyat or any of the upcoming F2 drivers would have fared worse than Alonso does. And all of them bar Grosjean and perhaps Magnussen would have had the benefit of building up future talent, rather then nursing a fading one.
I just don't see the point with Alonso.

My opinion, of course.
 
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Aesma
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed May 26, 2021 3:20 pm

Alonso brings sponsorship money doesn't he ?
 
CRJockey
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed May 26, 2021 3:22 pm

Aesma wrote:
Alonso brings sponsorship money doesn't he ?


Genuine question: does he? I am not familiar in how far he brings in more as any of the others.
 
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Grizzly410
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed May 26, 2021 3:37 pm

CRJockey wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Alonso brings sponsorship money doesn't he ?


Genuine question: does he? I am not familiar in how far he brings in more as any of the others.


I was about to say "MAPFRE" but checking quickly they were already on the RS20 last year.
Actually looking at 2020 and 2021 cars it looks like they lost a big sponsor (Infiniti) and that's it.
 
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Aesma
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed May 26, 2021 6:04 pm

Infiniti is part of the Renault group, they would clash with Alpine I guess.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Thu May 27, 2021 11:15 pm

CRJockey wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
CRJockey wrote:
While I like Ocon since he joined Racing Point a while back and consider him putting in strong and consistent performances for Alpine, I feel putting back Alonso in that car is a huge mistake. I would have much rather seen a young driver from F2, or Kevin Magnussen in that seat. Alonso seemed to be a overly-conservative and cautious decision. And one that is not paying back.


Alonso's been out of the sports for 2 years. Plus, it's not like he's so much slower than Ocon - who has the advantage of seniority in the team. Yes, Alonso used to race for Renault, but let's not forget that was ages ago and I'm sure many of the old hands are no longer there.

All the drivers who switched teams are struggling. Maybe it's just a case of slowly adapting to new team dynamics.


All but Sainz do struggle, right. But that wasn't really my point. There is no reason to believe that Magnussen, Grosjean, Albon, Kvyat or any of the upcoming F2 drivers would have fared worse than Alonso does. And all of them bar Grosjean and perhaps Magnussen would have had the benefit of building up future talent, rather then nursing a fading one.
I just don't see the point with Alonso.

My opinion, of course.


I think what the team wants is a driver that could be a leader, which is why they went with Danny Ricciardo in the first place. They probably don't view Esteban as one who could do so - plus there is the threat (however minuscule) of him being recalled to Mercedes. They want a proven driver who can lead their efforts in developing the 2022 car, which is where Alonso is a perfect fit.

Aesma wrote:
Infiniti is part of the Renault group, they would clash with Alpine I guess.


Infiniti is closely associated with Nissan, which is bleeding money.
 
CRJockey
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:17 pm

Again a messy qualifiying.

Guys, please some feedback: Am I too relentless when I find the constant whining of Mercedes of how bad...

a) the downforce
b) the tyre temperature
c) the car in general for the type of course
d) insert random whinyness

...is so annoying? I am really no biggie when it comes to supporting Red Bull, so no fan bias there. I just find Toto and his nose, which he actually never keeps in the god damn mask, super irritating. Especially, when then a P2 for Hamilton is the result and, lets be honest here, will be a P1 to P3 tomorrow save any accidents.

In other news: My heart is bleeing for RIC. Man, I wish he would find his strength. Or we must concede that he just maybe isn't the above average talented driver it seemed when he left Red Bull two years ago.

Congrats to Leclerc. And dude, is Bottas off the pace...
Beautiful job by Gasly, despite being obviously a bit lucky that Tsunoda hit the wall in turn 3 with Sainz doing what I do while skiing: collapsing in symphathy if I see someone fall in front of me.
 
StarAC17
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:13 pm

CRJockey wrote:
Again a messy qualifiying.

Guys, please some feedback: Am I too relentless when I find the constant whining of Mercedes of how bad...

a) the downforce
b) the tyre temperature
c) the car in general for the type of course
d) insert random whinyness

...is so annoying? I am really no biggie when it comes to supporting Red Bull, so no fan bias there. I just find Toto and his nose, which he actually never keeps in the god damn mask, super irritating. Especially, when then a P2 for Hamilton is the result and, lets be honest here, will be a P1 to P3 tomorrow save any accidents.

In other news: My heart is bleeing for RIC. Man, I wish he would find his strength. Or we must concede that he just maybe isn't the above average talented driver it seemed when he left Red Bull two years ago.

Congrats to Leclerc. And dude, is Bottas off the pace...
Beautiful job by Gasly, despite being obviously a bit lucky that Tsunoda hit the wall in turn 3 with Sainz doing what I do while skiing: collapsing in symphathy if I see someone fall in front of me.


I have a feeling that your complaints are because you don't like Mercedes in general. All of top racers whine and curse when stuff isn't going their way. Go back to the Monaco qualifying and Verstappen was livid when Leclerc crashed and he yells at his engineers just as much as Hamilton does. Pro athletes are notorious for whining and most people give the benefit of the doubt to the ones they like.

I agree Bottas doesn't look good. He may have moved up his position a bit as he was on a flying lap when Yuki and Sainz crashed but if he can't get it together tomorrow he is in big trouble.

I will concur that it was a messy qualifying and if this goes into tomorrow it will be a good day for those who like to see the safety car.

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