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scbriml
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:13 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Plus the stewards in Silverstone were unequivocal that Lewis was at fault.


The stewards use very specific wording when ascribing fault to a driver. If one driver is deemed wholly at fault for an incident the wording will be "Car nn is judged at fault for the incident." As in this case for Russell during the Silverstone sprint:
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... lision.pdf

They deemed Hamilton "predominantly at fault" at Silverstone. They deemed Verstappen "predominantly at fault" at Monza. :scratchchin:
 
Daysleeper
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:25 pm

Well as many of us had speculated Max has taken a new engine and is starting from the back, so no surprise there.

But what a Q3! Not to take anything away from Lando or Carlos, but Russel again managing to not only make Q3 (which is an achievement in it’s self with the Williams) but get third! And considering that although it was “damp” they were all on slicks, this for me is more of an achievement than the 2nd at spa.

Hamilton hitting the pit wall at 60KPH while still on inters? perhaps that knock to the head in Monza was harder than we thought? Perfect result for Max though and looks like we have another good race to look forwards to tomorrow.


Results for those too lazy to watch live :)

1 Norris
2 Sainz
3 Russel
4 Hamilton
5 Riccardo
6 Alonso
7 Bottas
8 Stroll
9 Perez (Disappointing, again!)
10 Ocon
11 Vettel
12 Gasly
13 Tsunoda
14 Latifi
15 Leclerc
16 Raikkonen
17 Shumacher
18 Giovinazzi
19 Mazepin
20 Verstappen
 
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Revelation
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:53 pm

Daysleeper wrote:
Results for those too lazy to watch live :)

The word you're looking for is stingy! :biggrin:

Thanks for the post.
 
marcelh
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:20 pm

Daysleeper wrote:

1 Norris
2 Sainz
3 Russel
4 Hamilton
5 Riccardo
6 Alonso
7 Bottas
8 Stroll
9 Perez (Disappointing, again!)
10 Ocon
11 Vettel
12 Gasly
13 Tsunoda
14 Latifi
15 Leclerc
16 Raikkonen
17 Shumacher
18 Giovinazzi
19 Mazepin
20 Verstappen


Great qualifying!
Top 10 was a kind of roulette with some winners and losers. Russel, although “only” third, was the first on slicks and it paid off very well. His pit exit was “committed”, to say the least.
Hamilton had some weird issues, Bottas and Perez the disappointed second drivers. Great to see Norris finally winning it’s first pole and a great follow on after the Monza 1-2, with Ricciardo on a decent 5th place. Alonso hasn’t lost his mojo with 6th, Stroll at 8th is good, Ocon 10th…

Can be an interesting race….
 
Daysleeper
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:22 pm

Revelation wrote:
Daysleeper wrote:
Results for those too lazy to watch live :)

The word you're looking for is stingy! :biggrin:

Thanks for the post.


There are a few streaming websites I could link you do if you would like?

Not always the highest resolution and occasionally buffer, but watchable.
 
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scbriml
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:53 pm

marcelh wrote:
Hamilton had some weird issues


An understatement when he looked to have pole in his pocket.

My understanding of the grid after penalties are taken into account is:
1 Norris
2 Sainz
3 Russel
4 Hamilton
5 Riccardo
6 Alonso
7 Bottas
8 Stroll
9 Perez
10 Ocon
11 Vettel
12 Gasly
13 Tsunoda
14 Raikkonen
15 Shumacher
16 Giovinazzi
17 Mazepin
18 Latifi
19 Leclerc
20 Verstappen
 
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Revelation
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:08 pm

scbriml wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Hamilton had some weird issues

An understatement when he looked to have pole in his pocket.

:checkmark:

scbriml wrote:
My understanding of the grid after penalties are taken into account is:
1 Norris
2 Sainz
3 Russel
4 Hamilton
5 Riccardo
6 Alonso
7 Bottas
8 Stroll
9 Perez
10 Ocon
11 Vettel
12 Gasly
13 Tsunoda
14 Raikkonen
15 Shumacher
16 Giovinazzi
17 Mazepin
18 Latifi
19 Leclerc
20 Verstappen

Something I found of use:

Two drivers out in Q2 were Latifi and Ferrari’s Charles Leclerc, with both set to start from the back of the grid after power unit changes, meaning they opted not to set laps – Williams having discovered a pneumatic issue on Latifi’s car on Friday night.

Ref: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... t7Yb3.html
 
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Aesma
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:22 pm

That pitlane entry is criminal for a modern F1 track. Hamilton was in a hurry and crashed, too bad for him, he should have been a bit calmer, but in a race, it will end up blocked by a crashed car at some point.

Hamilton is on the dirty side so it's one problem more.
 
petertenthije
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:04 am

Bottas is again getting a new engine.

Toto has said this was a strategic consideration, pretty much confirming the change was done so Bottas can be a road block for Verstappen.

At the previous race, Monza, Bottas also got a new engine.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/bott ... 74900/amp/
 
marcelh
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:19 am

petertenthije wrote:
Bottas is again getting a new engine.

Toto has said this was a strategic consideration, pretty much confirming the change was done so Bottas can be a road block for Verstappen.

At the previous race, Monza, Bottas also got a new engine.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/bott ... 74900/amp/


Trying to win a championship by kicking your rival out (the reason of VER his engine change IS the crash at Silverstone) and your team mate has to become a road block because your rival is starting at the back of the field and you be in 4th….
 
marcelh
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:22 am

Aesma wrote:
That pitlane entry is criminal for a modern F1 track. Hamilton was in a hurry and crashed, too bad for him, he should have been a bit calmer, but in a race, it will end up blocked by a crashed car at some point.

Hamilton is on the dirty side so it's one problem more.


A HAM under pressure is pushing too hard and subsequently he’s going to make mistakes. Mercedes is giving up BOT because he has to be a road block in front of VER…. :rotfl:
 
petertenthije
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:53 am

marcelh wrote:
Trying to win a championship by kicking your rival out (the reason of VER his engine change IS the crash at Silverstone) and your team mate has to become a road block because your rival is starting at the back of the field and you be in 4th….
If Hamilton wins this championship, then it should come with an asterisk saying that a lot of tricks had to be pulled to do so. All of them within the rules, but that says more about the rules then about fair-play.
 
marcelh
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:00 am

petertenthije wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Trying to win a championship by kicking your rival out (the reason of VER his engine change IS the crash at Silverstone) and your team mate has to become a road block because your rival is starting at the back of the field and you be in 4th….
If Hamilton wins this championship, then it should come with an asterisk saying that a lot of tricks had to be pulled to do so. All of them within the rules, but that says more about the rules then about fair-play.

The F1 circus is dominated by the British and the “GOAT” has to be British. “That guy” from the continent isn’t allowed to take the championship this year.
 
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Aesma
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:23 am

Verstappen ends up not being penalized at all for crashing with HAM last time and stealing a bag of point from him, isn't that a trick too ?
 
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Aesma
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:25 am

I wonder how many asterisks should be put on other champions with that type of thinking. Hamilton would get at least one championship more if not for a couple of questionable penalties (in 2007). Kimi won because Hamilton and Alonso were fighting each other.
 
Daysleeper
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:39 am

petertenthije wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Trying to win a championship by kicking your rival out (the reason of VER his engine change IS the crash at Silverstone) and your team mate has to become a road block because your rival is starting at the back of the field and you be in 4th….
If Hamilton wins this championship, then it should come with an asterisk saying that a lot of tricks had to be pulled to do so. All of them within the rules, but that says more about the rules then about fair-play.


As I have already said, I don’t really have a dog in the Ham\Ves fight, but this comment is unfair. I’ve followed the sport for 30 years now, since my grandad took me to Silverstone for the first time as a 10-year-old kid. Granted, as a youngster many of the “tricks” or “shenanigans” a team would partake in went right over my head, but they were there.

I don’t think I even really noticed team orders until was it 98? When Coulthard let Hakkinen past on the last lap in Melbourne. The point is excluding a brief period around 2002-2004 when they were banned (could be wrong on the exact years) it has always been part of the sport and for me it just adds another dimension to it, another thing to consider, another unknown.

Which leads me to what I think will be interesting to see today. Lewis and George actually racing, I don’t think it has ever happened? As every other time they have met on track George would have been under blue flags. In fact excluding Bahrain when he was driving for Merc the only other time I know he has gone against one in anger was with Bottas in Imola…and that ended well....... I also don’t see Carlos or Lando making it easy for Lewis, hopefully they can stop him from running away at the front and we should see some good racing today :)
 
marcelh
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:15 pm

marcelh wrote:
Aesma wrote:
That pitlane entry is criminal for a modern F1 track. Hamilton was in a hurry and crashed, too bad for him, he should have been a bit calmer, but in a race, it will end up blocked by a crashed car at some point.

Hamilton is on the dirty side so it's one problem more.


A HAM under pressure is pushing too hard and subsequently he’s going to make mistakes. Mercedes is giving up BOT because he has to be a road block in front of VER…. :rotfl:

So much for the road block…. Lap 7/53….
 
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Dutchy
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:22 pm

Aesma wrote:
Verstappen ends up not being penalized at all for crashing with HAM last time and stealing a bag of point from him, isn't that a trick too ?


Verstappen was penalized because when he was taken out by Mercedes, his engine was damaged, thus require him for an extra engine change and thus starting at the end of the pack. That is on the championship level, not the individual race.
 
marcelh
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:05 pm

Aesma wrote:
Verstappen ends up not being penalized at all for crashing with HAM last time and stealing a bag of point from him, isn't that a trick too ?

Who destroyed an engine of VER and stole 25 points? Your great Hero HAM. So “not being penalized” is not reflecting the facts. IIRC he also got 2 penalty points at his license.
 
Daysleeper
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:20 pm

Anyone know how to do a Russian rain dance?
 
Daysleeper
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:25 pm

Scratch that...got my wish :)
 
petertenthije
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:41 pm

Congrats to hamilton on his 100th.
Congrats on max for an epic comeback, with some luck weather wise.
Norris took a gamble and lost it all. What a pity.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:25 pm

Daysleeper wrote:
Scratch that...got my wish :)



:lol: Max will send you a thank-you card for sure.
 
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Aesma
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:24 pm

Man that was very lucky for VER, RBR were awful with their strategy all race. And ruined Perez's race. Mercedes probably not happy that VER got 2nd, on the other hand the rain saved BOT's race who was absolutely nowhere.

BTW VER used another trick, he didn't complete a quali lap but was "saved" as the quali was wet, a rule nobody had heard of...

Too bad for Norris but it was his fault, he could have gotten the inters and insured 2nd place at least. HAM needed a bit of convincing but in the end trusted his team and it paid out.

Stroll and Vettel almost eliminating each other (and maybe saving Norris, if they had caused a safety car...).
 
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scbriml
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:15 pm

Congratulations to Hamilton for win number 100. What an unbelievable achievement! :champagne: :checkeredflag: :trophy:

Gutted for Norris, he's been the driver of the season IMHO.

Good recovery drive by Verstappen with some luck - without the rain he wasn't finishing better than P7.

marcelh wrote:
Who destroyed an engine of VER and stole 25 points?

Dutchy wrote:
Verstappen was penalized because when he was taken out by Mercedes, his engine was damaged, thus require him for an extra engine change and thus starting at the end of the pack. That is on the championship level, not the individual race.


Honda engineers examined the engine and said it was fine. Verstappen used it all through practice at Hungary. I doubt any driver will escape engine penalties this season. Time to move on, I think.

Aesma wrote:
Too bad for Norris but it was his fault, he could have gotten the inters and insured 2nd place at least. HAM needed a bit of convincing but in the end trusted his team and it paid out.


It's always a very tough call when you're leading a race in changeable conditions with just a few laps to go and you've got someone (not to mention a 7 x WDC) chasing you hard. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Even Hamilton ignored his team's first call to pit for inters.

Aesma wrote:
Man that was very lucky for VER, RBR were awful with their strategy all race. And ruined Perez's race.


He did luck into P2 with the rain, but the team still had to make the call to switch to inters. He was complaining about his tyres all through the race and only managed to make a set of hards last as long as Hamilton made his mediums last in the first stint.
 
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Aesma
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:42 pm

He should have undercut Hamilton for the first stop. When they finally stopped, they were together in the pits, I thought it was a masterstroke, but in fact VER was still several places behind HAM. Then VER was just behind PER and they should have switcherooed them, they didn't do it quickly enough and ALO overtook VER ! Then VER was stuck and the rain saved him. Meanwhile PER had a bad pitstop by the team, then the rain was handled badly by the team and he finishes 9th.
 
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akiss20
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:08 am

The new FIA directive on pit stops really is causing havoc. We had what 6-7 slow stops today? Such utter nonsense.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:00 am

akiss20 wrote:
The new FIA directive on pit stops really is causing havoc. We had what 6-7 slow stops today? Such utter nonsense.


Indeed. It's a rule with no discernible safety reward.

But what a race. 2021 has been quite surprising in that the races we thought would be borefests (Paul Ricard & Sochi) turned out to be an absolute nail biter. Absolutely gutted for Lando. His inexperience & McLaren's decision to put the choice of switching tyres solely on the drivers lost him the victory. Hopefully he will use this as a learning experience & develop himself from there.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:37 am

scbriml wrote:

It's always a very tough call when you're leading a race in changeable conditions with just a few laps to go and you've got someone (not to mention a 7 x WDC) chasing you hard. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Even Hamilton ignored his team's first call to pit for inters.



For Hamilton, the call was purely strategic and easier to make. Their goal was to defend the championship, not the podium.
Norris, on the other hand, was completely obsessed and blinded by his shot at the win, and his lack of experience and lack of strong team leadership made him lose it all. Shame...

I'd feel worse for him if it wasn't for his little 'Shut the f#$k up!' quip at his team when they told him he should pit.
He'll learn a lot from this.

There's still definitely something to be said for experienced drivers in F1, despite the recent push by many teams to mostly hire kids.
Alonso, Vettel and Raikkonen are still showing their younger team mates how it's done, especially in a race like this.
(I'm particularly impressed with Alonso this season).
 
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scbriml
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:04 am

Francoflier wrote:
For Hamilton, the call was purely strategic and easier to make. Their goal was to defend the championship, not the podium.
Norris, on the other hand, was completely obsessed and blinded by his shot at the win, and his lack of experience and lack of strong team leadership made him lose it all. Shame...


Yes, the call is always easier for the guy behind (assuming, as was the case here, that he has a full pit-stop in hand). But, if P3 had only been a few seconds behind, the call for Hamilton & Mercedes would have been as tough as it was for Norris & McLaren.
 
StarAC17
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:25 pm

scbriml wrote:
Congratulations to Hamilton for win number 100. What an unbelievable achievement! :champagne: :checkeredflag: :trophy:

Gutted for Norris, he's been the driver of the season IMHO.

Good recovery drive by Verstappen with some luck - without the rain he wasn't finishing better than P7.



I know the TV coverage is being called questionable missing some things like Norris overtaking Sainz. However the place tracker on the left side of the screen (provided you are watching the Sky feed) was the thing to watch over the last 4 laps of this race. Bottas and Kimi were out of the points and ended up 5th and 7th, Verstappen was 7th and came up to second.

The positions changed so fast at the end of the race.

Francoflier wrote:
scbriml wrote:

It's always a very tough call when you're leading a race in changeable conditions with just a few laps to go and you've got someone (not to mention a 7 x WDC) chasing you hard. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Even Hamilton ignored his team's first call to pit for inters.



For Hamilton, the call was purely strategic and easier to make. Their goal was to defend the championship, not the podium.
Norris, on the other hand, was completely obsessed and blinded by his shot at the win, and his lack of experience and lack of strong team leadership made him lose it all. Shame...

I'd feel worse for him if it wasn't for his little 'Shut the f#$k up!' quip at his team when they told him he should pit.
He'll learn a lot from this.

There's still definitely something to be said for experienced drivers in F1, despite the recent push by many teams to mostly hire kids.
Alonso, Vettel and Raikkonen are still showing their younger team mates how it's done, especially in a race like this.
(I'm particularly impressed with Alonso this season).


There is and even the guys in their early 30's (Bottas, Checo and Riccardo) can make things happen from time to time and will be around for the next few years. However the future of F1 is in good hands with Lando, Russell, Verstappen, Leclerc, Ocon, Sainz, Gasly and even Mick.

These guys will make if happen when Lewis decides to call it quits. If Lewis gets number 8 this year I predict he drives in 2022 and then retires.
 
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Aesma
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:43 pm

Alonso, Vettel and Kimi all started in F1 as kids, too.

I wonder if Norris was told there was 40s behind Hamilton, and thus a 2nd place was the worst possible outcome of a pit stop.

Also don't dismiss Hamilton's will to win, he almost passed Norris several times while driving on water in slicks, he took risks.
 
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Revelation
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:50 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
If Lewis gets number 8 this year I predict he drives in 2022 and then retires.

And if not? :duck:

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.htm ... ivers.html says he only is working with a two point margin.

Somehow I see him staying in F1 beyond his current contract regardless.

The temptation to stay till deep into one's declining years and till it's no longer feasible to continue seems to be very great.

Very rich people have a way of comparing themselves to people with even more money than themselves rather than those with less.

Bouncing around the middle of the pack keeps the brand going and the cash flowing much more so than any post-racing career, from what I can tell.
 
StarAC17
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:26 pm

Revelation wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
If Lewis gets number 8 this year I predict he drives in 2022 and then retires.

And if not? :duck:

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.htm ... ivers.html says he only is working with a two point margin.

Somehow I see him staying in F1 beyond his current contract regardless.

The temptation to stay till deep into one's declining years and till it's no longer feasible to continue seems to be very great.

Very rich people have a way of comparing themselves to people with even more money than themselves rather than those with less.

Bouncing around the middle of the pack keeps the brand going and the cash flowing much more so than any post-racing career, from what I can tell.


I would agree with you but I think Lewis has other interests than simply F1. Perhaps if he is still competing for titles he will stay but if Mercedes becomes a midfield team. (entirely possible with the 2022 regs) he might not want to simply stick around to be simply fighting for points. To put a North American spin on it Tom Brady who is 44 in only playing in the NFL because he is still competitive for Super Bowls. I think he hangs them up if he is just fighting for playoff appearances.

Lewis is into music, fashion, I have heard even acting. He also says he wants to start a foundation to get those of lesser means into karting to get a shot a professional racing.

He won't be bored post F1.
 
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Revelation
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:07 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
I would agree with you but I think Lewis has other interests than simply F1. Perhaps if he is still competing for titles he will stay but if Mercedes becomes a midfield team. (entirely possible with the 2022 regs) he might not want to simply stick around to be simply fighting for points. To put a North American spin on it Tom Brady who is 44 in only playing in the NFL because he is still competitive for Super Bowls. I think he hangs them up if he is just fighting for playoff appearances.

Lewis is into music, fashion, I have heard even acting. He also says he wants to start a foundation to get those of lesser means into karting to get a shot a professional racing.

He won't be bored post F1.

I agree he won't be bored post F1 and has other interests, but I think most of the drivers can say that. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Chances are Merc will want to move to a younger guy at some point, presumably as soon as the end of the current contract. Someone will be willing to pay him a lot of money even after then, just for the name recognition alone. As you say, it's all about what he wants to do, but there's plenty of precedent that drivers can and do go into their 40s. Merc hopes he's not like Brady and signs for some other team then keeps going past age 44!
 
Daysleeper
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:03 pm

I’ve just watched the Schumacher documentary on Netflix, it’s really good and I would highly recommend it to anyone interested in the sport, but especially to the new fans, as it really puts the recent incidents between Lewis and Max into perspective.

For me it also served as a potent reminder of my own prejudices, as my god at the time I really hated Schumacher LMAO. To me he was a cheat, and in fairness they do go into some of his less than sportsman-like behaviour but miss a few too, such as the “secret” launch control still fitted to his Benetton after it had been banned.

Then after 2000 we had him and Ferrari absolutely dominating the sport, and I remember at the time watching the first 4 or 5 laps of a race, seeing him drive off into the distance and then finding something else to watch, as it was boring. I guess this must be how many people feel towards Lewis and Mercedes now, but bizarrely I don’t. I really don’t follow the drivers as much as I do the teams, but even then, I can’t really explain why I don’t have the same resentment towards Lewis – Perhaps it’s because he is British, perhaps because he is black and was very much the underdog. I really don’t know.

Great watch though, as I said earlier highly recommended. And I have intentionally not gone into the “GOAT” debate regarding him and Lewis – As I outlined above, I still have my prejudices, so you can probably guess my answer :)
 
StarAC17
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:12 pm

Revelation wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
I would agree with you but I think Lewis has other interests than simply F1. Perhaps if he is still competing for titles he will stay but if Mercedes becomes a midfield team. (entirely possible with the 2022 regs) he might not want to simply stick around to be simply fighting for points. To put a North American spin on it Tom Brady who is 44 in only playing in the NFL because he is still competitive for Super Bowls. I think he hangs them up if he is just fighting for playoff appearances.

Lewis is into music, fashion, I have heard even acting. He also says he wants to start a foundation to get those of lesser means into karting to get a shot a professional racing.

He won't be bored post F1.

I agree he won't be bored post F1 and has other interests, but I think most of the drivers can say that. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Chances are Merc will want to move to a younger guy at some point, presumably as soon as the end of the current contract. Someone will be willing to pay him a lot of money even after then, just for the name recognition alone. As you say, it's all about what he wants to do, but there's plenty of precedent that drivers can and do go into their 40s. Merc hopes he's not like Brady and signs for some other team then keeps going past age 44!


Like Brady (apologies to the F1 fans who don't follow the NFL but the comparison is valid) he will want to go to a contender and still be competing for the titles. Brady wasn't going to the Jets, lets be real (my opinion as I am not in Lewis's head).
Even with a big contract I don't think Lewis would go to a midfielder unless he thought that him being on the team would put them in contention. When you have won that much, simply competing for points won't be good enough.
 
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Revelation
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:43 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
Like Brady (apologies to the F1 fans who don't follow the NFL but the comparison is valid) he will want to go to a contender and still be competing for the titles. Brady wasn't going to the Jets, lets be real (my opinion as I am not in Lewis's head).
Even with a big contract I don't think Lewis would go to a midfielder unless he thought that him being on the team would put them in contention. When you have won that much, simply competing for points won't be good enough.

It's interesting to consider that up thread it was pointed out that all the rules change in 2022 which is also Lewis's last year on the current contract, and to consider his jump to Mercedes back in the day was him leaving an established team for a new and upcoming team. He'll have been in Merc's new 2022 car for a bunch of races and will see what others are bringing to the table as well. I suspect there will be a lot of drama around him staying or going and a lot of money on the table, too much to just walk away from.

I'm not sure the Jets analogy is correct, we all know they will suck for all of our livetimes, but he could be looking for the next Tampa, a team that's been down for a very long time but has been stockpiling talent waiting for a game changer to join the team. Merc may decide to do what it takes to keep their "GOAT" rather than gamble on a young and upcoming guy. On the other hand, of course there's the chance that he loses his passion for the sport, but I won't bet on that.

I think the trend is to see aging athletes stay till they have no other option but leave. There are some exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions.
 
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scbriml
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:55 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
When you have won that much, simply competing for points won't be good enough.


I think it depends on the character of the driver - it doesn't seem to bother Vettel (let's not forget he's 3rd on the all-time race win list and joint 4th in terms of number of WDCs.)

But for Hamilton, I believe he'll quit as soon as he stops enjoying it. Even though he has a two-year deal signed, I think 2022, with the massive change to cars, will be a make or break year for him.
 
wingman
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:42 pm

Revelation wrote:
I'm not sure the Jets analogy is correct, we all know they will suck for all of our livetimes, but he could be looking for the next Tampa, a team that's been down for a very long time but has been stockpiling talent waiting for a game changer to join the team.


Oof. I once brought an NFL analogy into a discussion about Messi and Euro league salaries and got torched for a 95 yard interception TD. Stick to Rugby and Cricket was the advice I got. All the best to you sir.
 
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Aesma
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:34 pm

Jets are in which city again ? :d

Remember there are spending caps now, and soon salary caps. That will play a role.

I started watching F1 in 2005, have watched all races since then. Before that, I only heard about F1 when spending a sunday at an uncle's house for a barbecue, as several of my uncles are Ferrari tifosis (Italian family).

2005 was the end of MSC's domination, he was still competitive for a couple of years (but not his car), yet I hated him for some reason. I think because of Ferrari's utter arrogance back then. And that team was led by a Frenchman (I'm French). Of course Alonso was winning in a French car. I liked Kimi so it's not just because MSC was against Alonso...

If I had started watching F1 in 1995 I think I would be of a different opinion, as I would have to bow to MSC's brilliance.

I've seen Lewis's entire career so I can understand that you might not get him if you're new to the sport, especially with his "antics" outside of the car, but personally I really don't care about that. I'm not a fan that will follow people on social media or stuff like that, or care what they think about anything other than the sport itself. My main regret is Alonso's bad timing, I would have liked to see him in a competitive car more often, taking a few titles from Lewis and Vettel...
 
Daysleeper
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:53 pm

scbriml wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
When you have won that much, simply competing for points won't be good enough.


I think it depends on the character of the driver - it doesn't seem to bother Vettel (let's not forget he's 3rd on the all-time race win list and joint 4th in terms of number of WDCs.)

But for Hamilton, I believe he'll quit as soon as he stops enjoying it. Even though he has a two-year deal signed, I think 2022, with the massive change to cars, will be a make or break year for him.


I agree, but I perhaps differ on what I think he would enjoy. If the Merc is like it was after the last major rule change and he can essentially cruise his way to another title I think he would be bored by it, especially if he wins this year and there are no more records for him to break. But, if it’s a challenge, and especially if Max wins this year….then he would stay.

Longer term, it wouldn’t totally surprise me to see him either drive in Formula-E or take on a much more involved role. He owns X44 racing which competes in the Extreme-E races, and he makes no secret about his support for “green racing” and how all motor sports should be more inclusive. What better way than to be in a management role within such a team……And having said all that, with F1 budget caps, his ability to gain high profile sponsorship on his on merit…. Could he run a future F1 team? Doubt it, but not impossible….
 
Daysleeper
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:12 pm

Aesma wrote:
2005 was the end of MSC's domination, he was still competitive for a couple of years (but not his car), yet I hated him for some reason. I think because of Ferrari's utter arrogance back then.

Yay! I’m not the only one who hated him!

Aesma wrote:
(I'm French).

I’m very sorry about that, but we are all born with challenges we must overcome :)

Aesma wrote:
Of course Alonso was winning in a French car. I liked Kimi so it's not just because MSC was against Alonso...
If I had started watching F1 in 1995 I think I would be of a different opinion, as I would have to bow to MSC's brilliance.


In 95 you would have just missed Prost driving at all let alone at his peak, but you had Villeneuve in a Williams-Renault winning a title in 97. And yeah he is Canadian, so only half French, but with the Williams having a French engine I am sure you can get make a whole Frenchman somehow.
 
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Aesma
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:40 pm

I would have supported Prost as a constructor ! It was based in my city to boot.

Also it's not about the brand as I don't like most Merc cars (good taxis at best) whereas I'm a huge Ferrari fan (until they make a SUV...).
 
Daysleeper
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:13 pm

Aesma wrote:
I would have supported Prost as a constructor ! It was based in my city to boot.

Also it's not about the brand as I don't like most Merc cars (good taxis at best) whereas I'm a huge Ferrari fan (until they make a SUV...).


An engine manufacturer in F1 has next to nothing to do with its actual brand. Merc F1 engines are developed and made in the UK, as are Honda’s. So Ironically, the new Merc Project 1 hyper-car will actually have a British engine :) I think Renault are pretty much 100% French though, and Ferrari are definitely Italian. It’s more about brand recognition and financing rather than a car maker actually bringing any technical skill or knowledge.

Thinking about it I guess I am a perfect example of what F1 branding can do. I managed to buy a used Renault Clio Williams years ago, had it a week before I put into a ditch. But it started my love of fast French cars, had both phase 1 and 2 Clio 172’s and a 182 before eventually getting the big daddy.. the Clio V6. I’m boring now and drive a Golf GTI, but god to I miss those cars. Had Renault never gone into F1, I doubt I would have discovered how fantastic they are.


And I had totally forgotten about Prost GP, it was a bit of a flash in the pan I guess and in its best season Williams were winning. So thats where my focus was I guess.
 
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Aesma
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:43 pm

Clio V6, that's an "end up in a ditch" car !
 
Daysleeper
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:13 pm

Aesma wrote:
Clio V6, that's an "end up in a ditch" car !


You would think but being mid-engined it handled far better than the 172’s and 182 I had before it. I guess I was also a bit older and wiser, plus I had actually managed to buy the phase 2 I had brand new off the lot, my first “brand new” car so I did baby it a little :)

Lost a small fortune when I sold it to get my first golf in around 2010. Ironically, had I kept it I could probably have made money from it. I think they only made around 1000 or so and very few were right hand drive – it’s a collector’s item now.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:29 am

Daysleeper wrote:
I think Renault are pretty much 100% French though, and Ferrari are definitely Italian.


Renault/Alpine is 50-50 Anglo-French. The Brits handle the car design, the French handle the engine.

https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on ... 1-factory/
 
marcelh
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:32 am

Daysleeper wrote:
I managed to buy a used Renault Clio Williams years ago,


Dark metallic blue with golden alloy wheels? My neighbor had one on those days and it spent most of the time in a heated garage. Partly because he was forced by the police after some speeding... :bigthumbsup:
 
Daysleeper
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Re: F1 - 2021 Season

Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:01 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Daysleeper wrote:
I think Renault are pretty much 100% French though, and Ferrari are definitely Italian.


Renault/Alpine is 50-50 Anglo-French. The Brits handle the car design, the French handle the engine.

https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on ... 1-factory/


Of course, Renault became Lotus, who then became Renault again didn't they? Don't know why but I had always just assumed that Lotus had just rebranded an actual French design team rather than actually being UK based.


marcelh wrote:
Daysleeper wrote:
I managed to buy a used Renault Clio Williams years ago,


Dark metallic blue with golden alloy wheels? My neighbor had one on those days and it spent most of the time in a heated garage. Partly because he was forced by the police after some speeding... :bigthumbsup:


Yeah, as they all were. I got mine when it was 5 or 6 in 2001, it being a 95 N registration, so it was technically a "Williams 2" if your a nerd about these things, although there were no real differences between all 3 versions. They all shared the 2.0 16v engine, and rust issues, mine was already rusting along the rear arches (a bitch of a repair) and it needed a new tailgate as it had rusted along the bottm seals and where the badges were, crazy how we used to just accept that if a car was over 3 years old it was a rot box.

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