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akiss20 wrote:Wish the stewards would make up their mind on track limits though. 40 laps of going wide at T4 to shave off time isn't an advantage but finishing up a pass is? Enforce it or don't but don't change the enforcement mid-race.
Aesma wrote:MSC 48s behind Vettel. I hope his engineers asked him to slow down, otherwise the car is even worse than I thought.
TheFlyingDisk wrote:All the hype, and still Mercedes won.
Talk about anti-climax. Granted Super Max tried his damnedest to put one up on Lewis, but in the end, it's still the Mercedes that won.
scbriml wrote:So what do you want? Great races, regardless of who wins? Or, as it sounds, anyone but Hamilton or Mercedes to win.
If you didn't enjoy that race, then you can't call yourself an F1 fan. There was action everywhere and close racing up and down the field and the result in doubt to the chequered flag.
There's no pleasing some people.
scbriml wrote:akiss20 wrote:Wish the stewards would make up their mind on track limits though. 40 laps of going wide at T4 to shave off time isn't an advantage but finishing up a pass is? Enforce it or don't but don't change the enforcement mid-race.
One part was definitely confusing - exceeding track limits in practice or qualifying resulted in having lap times deleted. But, the drivers were told they could go wide at turn four in the race, as long as they "didn't gain a lasting advantage". I agree, that it's stupid for the race stewards to apparently change that and start warning drivers mid-race. All that said, overtaking off the track will be punished every single time, so IMHO, Verstappen can have no beef about it (and he of all drivers should know that!)
I have to say, I wish they would sort this out - the white lines demark the edge of the track. Drivers wouldn't willingly go outside them unless it means they can go faster. Have grass or gravel the other side of the white lines (and kerbs where applicable) and suddenly you'll see that F1 drivers can keep the car on track. It's also worth noting that drivers seem not to exceed track limits at circuits like Monaco and Montreal.
akiss20 wrote:scbriml wrote:akiss20 wrote:Wish the stewards would make up their mind on track limits though. 40 laps of going wide at T4 to shave off time isn't an advantage but finishing up a pass is? Enforce it or don't but don't change the enforcement mid-race.
One part was definitely confusing - exceeding track limits in practice or qualifying resulted in having lap times deleted. But, the drivers were told they could go wide at turn four in the race, as long as they "didn't gain a lasting advantage". I agree, that it's stupid for the race stewards to apparently change that and start warning drivers mid-race. All that said, overtaking off the track will be punished every single time, so IMHO, Verstappen can have no beef about it (and he of all drivers should know that!)
I have to say, I wish they would sort this out - the white lines demark the edge of the track. Drivers wouldn't willingly go outside them unless it means they can go faster. Have grass or gravel the other side of the white lines (and kerbs where applicable) and suddenly you'll see that F1 drivers can keep the car on track. It's also worth noting that drivers seem not to exceed track limits at circuits like Monaco and Montreal.
I don't think even Max believes that his overtake was kosher (he explicitly said he would rather have lost from the time penalty than have to give the place back). What I think is stupid is that overtaking off track is considered getting an advantage but running wide to shave off a tenth a lap for 40 laps, thereby increasing Hamilton's lead and making it harder for Max to chase him down, is not "gaining an advantage." If a driver is going off track for 40 laps in a row, he isn't doing it for shits and giggles, there is clearly something he is gaining from it, thus getting an advantage. IMO only time going off track shouldn't count towards the warnings/penalties is when you outbrake yourself and have to recover. What's the point of having a track layout if we aren't enforcing track limits consistently?
TheFlyingDisk wrote:Honestly, it was a race won on strategy. Yes there were action, but not where it matters.
T18 wrote:Nikita MassiveSpin seems to be our Safety Car magnet for the year .....
Jack Aitken - @JaitkenRacer Mar 29
Suddenly feeling a lot better about the 60 laps I managed in Sakhir before my spin
scbriml wrote:akiss20 wrote:scbriml wrote:
One part was definitely confusing - exceeding track limits in practice or qualifying resulted in having lap times deleted. But, the drivers were told they could go wide at turn four in the race, as long as they "didn't gain a lasting advantage". I agree, that it's stupid for the race stewards to apparently change that and start warning drivers mid-race. All that said, overtaking off the track will be punished every single time, so IMHO, Verstappen can have no beef about it (and he of all drivers should know that!)
I have to say, I wish they would sort this out - the white lines demark the edge of the track. Drivers wouldn't willingly go outside them unless it means they can go faster. Have grass or gravel the other side of the white lines (and kerbs where applicable) and suddenly you'll see that F1 drivers can keep the car on track. It's also worth noting that drivers seem not to exceed track limits at circuits like Monaco and Montreal.
I don't think even Max believes that his overtake was kosher (he explicitly said he would rather have lost from the time penalty than have to give the place back). What I think is stupid is that overtaking off track is considered getting an advantage but running wide to shave off a tenth a lap for 40 laps, thereby increasing Hamilton's lead and making it harder for Max to chase him down, is not "gaining an advantage." If a driver is going off track for 40 laps in a row, he isn't doing it for shits and giggles, there is clearly something he is gaining from it, thus getting an advantage. IMO only time going off track shouldn't count towards the warnings/penalties is when you outbrake yourself and have to recover. What's the point of having a track layout if we aren't enforcing track limits consistently?
I completely agree - it's just another example of inconsistency in F1. Why impose track limits on a specific turn for FP2, FP3 and qualifying, but not the race? Madness.
T18 wrote:The FIA created this track limits issue them selves by electing to pave a track from left armco to right armco in the name of safety. Seems to me a good middle ground would be to replace the first meter or two of the edge with grass
scbriml wrote:TheFlyingDisk wrote:Honestly, it was a race won on strategy. Yes there were action, but not where it matters.
Strategy is, and always has been, a big part of F1. Three changes of race leader and wheel to wheel racing with less than a second between the front two for the last six laps isn't enough?
scbriml wrote:TheFlyingDisk wrote:Honestly, it was a race won on strategy. Yes there were action, but not where it matters.
Strategy is, and always has been, a big part of F1. Three changes of race leader and wheel to wheel racing with less than a second between the front two for the last six laps isn't enough?
PHLspecial wrote:scbriml wrote:TheFlyingDisk wrote:Honestly, it was a race won on strategy. Yes there were action, but not where it matters.
Strategy is, and always has been, a big part of F1. Three changes of race leader and wheel to wheel racing with less than a second between the front two for the last six laps isn't enough?
You mean one stop strategies is not good F1? Though that comes on how soft tires should be because too soft drivers can't push, to hard we get one stop strategies. Bahrain is a track that generally needs a two stop. I'm not sure about other tracks.
scbriml wrote:I certainly wouldn't be opposed to making two stops compulsory by saying all three tyre compounds have to be used in the race and imposing a minimum number of laps that each compound has to be run (baring punctures or damage).
T18 wrote:Yeah the camera angles were not ideal for a lot of the circuit, not helped by the cams often being aimed the wrong way to catch anything either.
The only helpful angle of the Bottas Russell crash was the Onboard from Kimi and even that wasn't as clear as I'd like to see, it seemed to my eyes that Bottas began to move right but left just enough of a gap if only by an inch, but in my mind that far into that part of the track its a bit late to move. I can't wait for the tin foil hats to claim it was intentional to get Lewis a SC for a wave around (Just wait someone out there has got to be that daft).
I was really shocked to see Lewis make such a mistake kinda reminded me of Hockenheim a few years back. He was very fortunate that he was able to get out of that gravel trap.
TheFlyingDisk wrote:The only disappointment in the race is the TV cameras. It's like it is being run by amateurs.
Case in point, not catching the Bottas-Russell crash until it's too late. So we couldn't really tell whether it's true that Bottas had moved further into Russell, causing the Williams to inch off the track.
TheFlyingDisk wrote:I really don't get why people are ganging up on Russell because he slapped Bottas's helmet. Did nobody realize that Bottas raised the finger to Russell first and Russell's slap was in reaction to it?
Honestly, Bottas should be the one being critiqued. He has a Mercedes and he was nowhere in the race. It's not like he slid off the track and rejoined last. He started 8 and never progressed!
Aesma wrote:TheFlyingDisk wrote:I really don't get why people are ganging up on Russell because he slapped Bottas's helmet. Did nobody realize that Bottas raised the finger to Russell first and Russell's slap was in reaction to it?
Honestly, Bottas should be the one being critiqued. He has a Mercedes and he was nowhere in the race. It's not like he slid off the track and rejoined last. He started 8 and never progressed!
Bottas was still in his car after a major crash. Quite winded, we could see that even minutes later. In his mind (and in reality) a noob just slammed into him at 300Km/h and sent him into the wall. And the guy comes to see him, not to see if he's OK, but to complain ?
mad99 wrote:I only got to see the start and the first 20 lops or so, luckily f1 posts race highlights soon after.
Max did a great job even if he almost lost it at the restart. Ham second after a trip through the gravel, so strong it looks like merc is the team to beat. NOL solid job to get 3rd
RIC is not proving to be faster than NOL. Checo I’ve never rated him as anything but average and he continues to prove it. Racing point must be kicking themselves, removing a paying driver that gets fair results with a paid drive who can’t beat his paying driver teammate. Carlos proves he’s a number two. Top 8 cars within 0,5 sec, looks like we might have an interesting season!
akiss20 wrote:I thought Wolff's statement about George was pretty BS.
"The whole situation should have never happened. Valtteri had a bad first 30 laps and should have never been in that position, but George should never have launched into this manoeuvre considering that the track was drying up -- it meant taking risk and the other car in front of him was Mercedes....Any driver development, any young driver, must never lose this global perspective. Lots to learn for him I guess....You need to see that there is a Mercedes and it's wet, so there is a certain risk to overtake and the odds are against him anyway when the track is drying up."
https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/3128 ... ttas-clash
So from my reading, he is basically saying George shouldn't have tried the move not because it was risky, but because it was risky and the car he was trying to pass was a Merc. While Russell is a junior Merc member, he is at Williams which is not even a Merc junior team. Russell has a duty to his team to try and do as best as he can, even if that means making Merc look worse. It's not like Horner said that Gasly and Kyvat shouldn't race Albon, and AT is actually a RB junior team. Maybe Russell screwed up and tried an overly risky move on Bottas, but the fact that Bottas was in a Merc should have nothing to do with whether or not he decides to make the move.
I know in reality these politics will always come into it, but it's pretty gross IMO for Wolff to say that outright.
StarAC17 wrote:mad99 wrote:I only got to see the start and the first 20 lops or so, luckily f1 posts race highlights soon after.
Questions remain about Riccardo and how good he is. He should be the number one at Mclaren and competing with/outperforming Norris but two races in he is looking like he is where he will be for the rest of the season.
akiss20 wrote:StarAC17 wrote:mad99 wrote:I only got to see the start and the first 20 lops or so, luckily f1 posts race highlights soon after.
Questions remain about Riccardo and how good he is. He should be the number one at Mclaren and competing with/outperforming Norris but two races in he is looking like he is where he will be for the rest of the season.
I mean give the guy a second, he's had two races in the car to Lando's 2 years, and it's not like Lando is just some talentless pay driver; he has skills and is very driven to improve himself (you can hear on the radio whenever he messes up how high a standard he holds himself to, even when his engineer is complementing him). If he was falling behind a rookie in the car or someone the likes of Mazepin (groan) i'd have more questions about his talent. I think his time at RB demonstrated the guy's a darn good driver.
StarAC17 wrote:akiss20 wrote:StarAC17 wrote:
I mean give the guy a second, he's had two races in the car to Lando's 2 years, and it's not like Lando is just some talentless pay driver; he has skills and is very driven to improve himself (you can hear on the radio whenever he messes up how high a standard he holds himself to, even when his engineer is complementing him). If he was falling behind a rookie in the car or someone the likes of Mazepin (groan) i'd have more questions about his talent. I think his time at RB demonstrated the guy's a darn good driver.
Fair point and I hope you are right. I want Riccardo to be successful and I think him being successful is very good for F1.
StarAC17 wrote:mad99 wrote:I only got to see the start and the first 20 lops or so, luckily f1 posts race highlights soon after.
Max did a great job even if he almost lost it at the restart. Ham second after a trip through the gravel, so strong it looks like merc is the team to beat. NOL solid job to get 3rd
RIC is not proving to be faster than NOL. Checo I’ve never rated him as anything but average and he continues to prove it. Racing point must be kicking themselves, removing a paying driver that gets fair results with a paid drive who can’t beat his paying driver teammate. Carlos proves he’s a number two. Top 8 cars within 0,5 sec, looks like we might have an interesting season!
Checo did some dumb things on Sunday but has a very good race in Bahrain, starting from the pits to 5th.
Lets see what he can do with Redbull and hopefully Horner gives him a shot for the season and do something like bring Albon back even thought Albon got hosed last year as did Gasly the year before.
Aston Martin made the mistake letting him go because it looks like Vettel is done and probably should retire after this season.
Questions remain about Riccardo and how good he is. He should be the number one at Mclaren and competing with/outperforming Norris but two races in he is looking like he is where he will be for the rest of the season.
Aesma wrote:I'm critical of Russell but I agree that Toto's statement is BS. In fact Russell not attempting the pass would be worse for him, for Williams and for Mercedes. The trick was not to crash, or to abort the pass when it proved difficult.
StarAC17 wrote:Questions remain about Riccardo and how good he is. He should be the number one at Mclaren and competing with/outperforming Norris but two races in he is looking like he is where he will be for the rest of the season.
PHLspecial wrote:Aesma wrote:I'm critical of Russell but I agree that Toto's statement is BS. In fact Russell not attempting the pass would be worse for him, for Williams and for Mercedes. The trick was not to crash, or to abort the pass when it proved difficult.
Exactly, Russell took the risk for the overtake and took himself out and Bottas. There is always risk pulling off overtakes matter how easy or hard. I get it Russell was fuming but what he did was not smart in the heat of the moment. Hopefully him and Bottas can shake hands and be done with it.