I think that Lewis is learning just how good Max really is. No mistakes all weekend long.
mad99 wrote:scbriml wrote:That was a complete and utter farce. Frankly a disgrace that points were awarded for following the SC for two laps. It’s an insult to any driver that actually raced and won F1 points.
How can two laps behind the SC constitute “racing”? Even drivers are saying this is a nonsense. There has to be a rule change to spell out that a minimum number of laps of green flag racing has to happen in order to award points.
Imagine had you paid to go see it! Sorry no refund the race was put on and the results posted…
Worse then the usa gp and the tyre issues…well just as bad anyway
At the USGP they at least got six cars racing. Two of those, the Ferraris, were very fast which is what the fans come to see.
If it's not possible to 'race' then at least do an hours worth of laps behind the Safety Car so that the spectators get to see something. You might clear a bit of water anyway.
Revelation wrote:Price of participation is a real thing. US GP in Austin would presumably cost me double that due to airfare and needed accommodation. Canadian GP in MTL would be a lot more viable, a five hour drive away, but also a significant financial commitment. Had a friend who went to MTL a few years ago and said he didn't enjoy it.
There'll be one in Miami in a year or two.
Revelation wrote:Speaking of which, anyone have any F1 podcast they recommend, especially for newbies?
Missed Apex is really good. I particularly recommend their periodic interviews with Matthew Carter (former Lotus F1 CEO). Most of the panels are biased towards Hamilton/BritishDrivers but they rotate the panel enough that this isn't too much of an issue.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh0DXE ... gHA/videoshttps://missedapexpodcast.com/Aesma wrote:They simply had their cars configured for the rain and everyone else for the dry, knowing F1 doesn't have races under the rain anyway, at most on drying conditions.
If the race had happened with drying conditions, the Williams would have been last.
But it didn't happen in drying conditions, so their qualifying results were strong. I don't get the complaining about the awarding of points in the situation at Spa. At the end of the day for some races qualifying is more important than others. Case in point; very rarely does the Race Classification for Monaco look any different to the Qualifying Classification (at least for points scoring positions). Thus points are effectively awarded on a Saturday.
Most of the people complaining about the awarding of points for Spa would be perfectly fine with it if doing so was favoring their favorite driver/team.
scbriml wrote:If F1 is unable to provide a race (as opposed to the farce that they called a race), even due to circumstances beyond their control, they should refund the crowd. Spa, the circuit, provided all the facilities they were required to, so I don’t see how they can be financially responsible. Even if F1 gave everyone a 50% refund, they’d be seen in a far better light than they are right now.
Agreed. As it stands, the Race Promoters will be put out of business if they have to refund tickets. This is an unacceptable situation and one that Liberty Media should be stepping into to ensure if appropriately rectified. There are a lot of very dedicated motorsport fans in the US who haven't been to a race since the 2005 USGP because of the debacle there. Not a good thing when Liberty is trying to grow the sport - the damage will be huge.
One would think that the event be insured for such situations? The 2020 Australian Grand Prix was insured (which meant that those of us who bought tickets and tried to attend) got refunds - eventually.
Spa and Austria are tracks that I'd most like to visit as a spectator, but due to the logistical issues pointed out earlier I doubt that I ever will. I've got no intention whatsoever to trek through thick mud in the Ardennes Forrest for multiple kilometres (pretty sure my Great Grandfather did that in WWI) inorder to get in and out of the circuit. Respect to those who have the stamina and will power to do so though.
I've been to Melbourne and Monaco - both of which were fantastic experiences. Maybe I'll do Hungary or Spain sometime in the future.
Revelation wrote:The way money works in F1 feels different to other sports, especially with some driver's dads buying their son's way on to the teams. Big money certainly influences other sports, but I'm having a hard time finding precedents like that at the highest levels of other sports. Other sports with single athletes have some form of elimination that weeds them out before the final rounds of the competition.
It's unfortunately the way it is. Unfortunately working your way up the Junior Formulas is super expensive (Karting at a high level is ~€100,000 per season, F2 is the best bit of €3,000,000) and the money has to come from somewhere. Thankfully Academies like Red Bull and Alpine offer some hope for those from more modest backgrounds, but you've still got to spend a lot of money to rise a long way up to ever get considered by them. Like you say though, there is a disproportionate amount of Centimillionaire and Billionaires kids (+ grand kids) on the grid. From memory:
- Nikita Mazepin. His father owns Uralkali.
- Lance Stroll. His father Lawrence (fashion empire + owner of Aston Martin).
- Lando Norris. Father owns (or owned) a significant holding of Hargreaves Lansdown.
- Nicholas Latifi. Both of his parents are individually multi-billionaires through different food companies - his Father's (Sofina) doing mainly meats and his Mother's (Saputo) dairy.
- Charles Leclerc. Grandfather Charles Manni was a billionaire who founded Auto-Parts maker Mecaplast (now Novares). Nevertheless, he does a great job pretending that he comes from humble beginnings.
- Mick Schumacher. Father was Michael Schumacher.
Additionally, Sainz and Verstappen's fathers were very successful racing drivers with plenty of money to fund junior careers.
Makes it all the sweeter when someone like Esteban Ocon - who spend most of his childhood homeless, living in a caravan - does well and wins a race. Coincidentally, he's now the only one on the grid to have ever held a "real" job (a single shift flipping burgers, before he got a call from Eric Boulier which saved his career). Before that it was Kevin Magnussen who worked as a Welder in 2008 and Romain Grosjean who was briefly a banker.
From memory, Sergei Sirotkin is the only F1 driver in recent history to hold a University Degree (engineering). I believe Nico Rosberg was part way through a degree in Aerospace Engineering when he switched to GP2.
Paydrivers have always been part of the sport. Some turn out all right (Lauda), but overall things are definitely going in the wrong direction. I don't think there's any realistic solutions to it though.
Revelation wrote:F1 lets them onto the same track as those who are there due to merit not parent's patronage.
The Superlicense system was introduced for just this reason and is supposed to ensure that the likes of Dan Ticktum, Sean Galeal, Roy Nissany and Alessio Deledda are very unlikely to ever make it up to F1.
StarAC17 wrote:While his Dad does own Aston Martin he does have the talent to hold his own in F1. He has 2 podiums IIRC, has qualified on pole and regularly scores points. He needs to work on his consistency but the Aston Martin car has had its challenges this year. He probably does deserve to be there.
Yes, he probably deserves to be there
at this point in time, but the point is that his father's money bought him lots and lots of second chances. Lots of private F1 testing as well. Ocon, Gasly, Palmer, Wehrlein, Albon, Sirotkin, Vandoorne and Nasr never had such chances. Sink or swim. In Wehrlein's case he swam quite well but still had his F1 career cut prematurely short.
Four Seasons of Formula One to get to the point where you can hold your own is an opportunity that just about nobody has. Similarly, having your father buy the most dominant junior team (Prema) and then put in a relatively very weak driver as your teammate (Nick Cassidy) to get you a nice easy Formula Three title isn't something that many people have a chance of.
StarAC17 wrote:Nikita Mazepin and Nicholas Latifi need to prove themselves soon or even thought their dad's own their teams they will be shown the door if they can't improve. Latifi has shown a lot of improvement this year especially in the last few races. Nothing close to George Russell but two races with points. Belgium didn't really count but he did get into Q2.
At least with Latifi he always has a fantastic attitude and
always looks genuinely chuffed (+ grateful) to actually be in F1. Can't say the same for Lance who usually seems completely nonchalant about it all. And obviously, the less said about Mazepin's attitude the better..... especially with his antics with Mick in the race.
And I agree with you that Latifi has shown a lot of improvement. I suspect that next year we might learn just how good George really is, which could make Latifi's qualifying record against him look a bit less awful.
CRJockey wrote:Recent Spa was a bit of an outlier, though. Don’t disagree with your premise, though. I mean, yes, qualifying at the back of the back means bad visibility on any track there is rain. And yes, it would have meant drivers would have had to figure out how fast the track is driveable.
Yes, I believe the safety issue was the visibility, not the actual water per-se. I wonder if there's an engineering solution to it. I think also that the serious accident in the W Series the day prior as well as Anthoine Hubert's death in 2019 probably informed a lot of race control's decision making regarding what was safe or not. I don't detest that decision, but what happened at Spa cannot be allowed to happen again and contingencies must be made.
CRJockey wrote:I guess more so than the races I do enjoy the precision of F1 rather than the racing. It is after all incredible how close lap time has become within the pack and between Verstappen and Hamilton.
For me it's the pure speed. Just seeing how quick the cars are IRL is just utterly bewildering. I know it sounds stereotypical, but most of the video footage you see on TV doesn't do it justice at all. When I was a kid, my father took me to watch various other racing series (V8 Supercars, Toyota Racing Series, Porsche Supercup, WRC etc) but completely lost all interest in them after my first Formula One experience.
