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bennett123
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:45 pm

I was referring to George Floyd's behavior.

He was clearly non co operative, and at the same time seemed, as I said borderline hysterical.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:47 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Whatever hes convicted of people won't be happy, the city will probably burn, rinse and repeat.



“The city”

You’re so dramatic. At most a few crappy buildings on a few blocks. You act as if the entire city will be burned to the ground.


After the Rodney King verdict LA came close.
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af773atmsp
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:48 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Whatever hes convicted of people won't be happy, the city will probably burn, rinse and repeat.



“The city”

You’re so dramatic. At most a few crappy buildings on a few blocks. You act as if the entire city will be burned to the ground.


I'm sure the people who own those "few crappy buildings" would appreciate that comment (sarcasm very much intended). Keep in mind one of the buildings that burned down last summer was under construction and going to be affordable apartments.
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N583JB
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:55 pm

af773atmsp wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Whatever hes convicted of people won't be happy, the city will probably burn, rinse and repeat.



“The city”

You’re so dramatic. At most a few crappy buildings on a few blocks. You act as if the entire city will be burned to the ground.


I'm sure the people who own those "few crappy buildings" would appreciate that comment (sarcasm very much intended). Keep in mind one of the buildings that burned down last summer was under construction and going to be affordable apartments.


Yup, not to mention the estimated $1-2 billion in property damage, 25 people killed, and over 2,000 police officers wounded across the United States during the riots last summer.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:21 pm

Racist statements will not be tolerated. There won't be warnings. There's nothing wrong with presenting opposing viewpoints, but there's no need for blatantly racist language.

Users should use the report post function to bring things like that to our attention quickly.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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seb146
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:56 pm

N583JB wrote:
af773atmsp wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:


“The city”

You’re so dramatic. At most a few crappy buildings on a few blocks. You act as if the entire city will be burned to the ground.


I'm sure the people who own those "few crappy buildings" would appreciate that comment (sarcasm very much intended). Keep in mind one of the buildings that burned down last summer was under construction and going to be affordable apartments.


Yup, not to mention the estimated $1-2 billion in property damage, 25 people killed, and over 2,000 police officers wounded across the United States during the riots last summer.


So maybe instead of blaming the victim, we should hold cops to at least the same standards we hold civilians? Or even higher? Like punishing cops who kill unarmed civilians who were simply living their lives?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
N583JB
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:59 pm

seb146 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
af773atmsp wrote:

I'm sure the people who own those "few crappy buildings" would appreciate that comment (sarcasm very much intended). Keep in mind one of the buildings that burned down last summer was under construction and going to be affordable apartments.


Yup, not to mention the estimated $1-2 billion in property damage, 25 people killed, and over 2,000 police officers wounded across the United States during the riots last summer.


So maybe instead of blaming the victim, we should hold cops to at least the same standards we hold civilians? Or even higher? Like punishing cops who kill unarmed civilians who were simply living their lives?


Sure, when that happens-which is extraordinarily rarely.
 
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seb146
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:32 pm

N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:
N583JB wrote:

Yup, not to mention the estimated $1-2 billion in property damage, 25 people killed, and over 2,000 police officers wounded across the United States during the riots last summer.


So maybe instead of blaming the victim, we should hold cops to at least the same standards we hold civilians? Or even higher? Like punishing cops who kill unarmed civilians who were simply living their lives?


Sure, when that happens-which is extraordinarily rarely.


Somebody somewhere else in cyberspace made an interesting point:

Take a man about the same age with no addiction issues and no heart issues and kneel on his neck for 10 minutes and see what happens to him just so we have something to compare. Yes, it is disgusting but it might also stop some people from blaming the victim.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
af773atmsp
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:55 am

seb146 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So maybe instead of blaming the victim, we should hold cops to at least the same standards we hold civilians? Or even higher? Like punishing cops who kill unarmed civilians who were simply living their lives?


Sure, when that happens-which is extraordinarily rarely.


Somebody somewhere else in cyberspace made an interesting point:

Take a man about the same age with no addiction issues and no heart issues and kneel on his neck for 10 minutes and see what happens to him just so we have something to compare. Yes, it is disgusting but it might also stop some people from blaming the victim.


Exactly what I've been saying, but of course no one will be willing to do it because:
1) it would be painful
2) there's a chance of death

Let's see how Chauvin feels getting a knee pressed on his neck for that long. If he has any morals he'll realize he went way too far that day and will admit guilt, but I know he wouldn't because he's a cop and cops never do anything wrong. :roll:
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N583JB
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:17 am

seb146 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So maybe instead of blaming the victim, we should hold cops to at least the same standards we hold civilians? Or even higher? Like punishing cops who kill unarmed civilians who were simply living their lives?


Sure, when that happens-which is extraordinarily rarely.


Somebody somewhere else in cyberspace made an interesting point:

Take a man about the same age with no addiction issues and no heart issues and kneel on his neck for 10 minutes and see what happens to him just so we have something to compare. Yes, it is disgusting but it might also stop some people from blaming the victim.


Unfortunately some people will always blame Floyd because he has a darker skin complexion than their own. There are a lot of sad, gross people out there.
 
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EstherLouise
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:35 pm

I made my mind up during the opening statements when the video of Floyd's death was shown. Cop bad. Other three are accessories.
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extender
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:27 pm

That is why there is a judge and a jury. In the court of public opinion, Chauvin should have been in prison or awaiting capital punishment. The other fears are that anything less than a guilty verdict will result in violence. Numerous activists have made clear threats on social media. Let the process do its thing.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:31 pm

One of the Detectives had to recant what he believed that Floyd had said. It is interesting as it was one of the things said back when all of this was occurring to slander Floyd.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/07/us/derek ... index.html

Senior Special Agent James Reyerson was shown a clip from Minneapolis Police body-camera footage of Floyd saying something while handcuffed and in a prone position on the ground.
"Did it appear that Mr. Floyd said, 'I ate too many drugs?" defense attorney Eric Nelson asked Reyerson.
"Yes, it did," Reyerson said.


After a short break, the prosecution played for Reyerson a longer clip of the video that provided the lead up to that comment.
"Having heard it in context, are you able to tell what Mr. Floyd is saying there?" prosecutor Matthew Frank asked.
"Yes, I believe Mr. Floyd was saying, 'I ain't do no drugs," Reyerson replied.


The LAPD use-of-force expert testified Wednesday that Chauvin used "deadly force" by holding his knee on Floyd's neck and back for more than 9 minutes in a situation where no force was necessary.
LAPD Sgt. Jody Stiger, in his second day on the stand, said the pressure of Chauvin's body weight on the back of Floyd's neck could have caused potentially lethal "positional asphyxia."
"He was in the prone position. He was not resisting. He was handcuffed. He was not attempting to evade. He was not attempting to resist," Stiger said of Floyd. "And the pressure ... that was being caused by the body weight could cause positional asphyxia which could cause de


So whether Floyd did drugs or not, the untrained application of the knee to the neck probably caused asphyxiation.
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extender
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:24 pm

"Trained," being the operative word. Was Chauvin properly trained? What does his training records indicate?

Link

Even if Floyd said he didn't do drugs:

In addition to fentanyl and methamphetamine, the toxicology report from the autopsy showed that Floyd also had cannabinoids in his system when he died.

Link
 
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casinterest
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:34 pm

extender wrote:
"Trained," being the operative word. Was Chauvin properly trained? What does his training records indicate?

Link

Even if Floyd said he didn't do drugs:

In addition to fentanyl and methamphetamine, the toxicology report from the autopsy showed that Floyd also had cannabinoids in his system when he died.

Link



What about this. A police officer with improper training, didn't listen to the victim or the bystanders and still killed a man. Either way, I would call it murder.

Who cares about the drugs. We have the video evidence and audio evidence that Chauvin didn't let up even when the victim said he was done.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
extender
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:50 pm

Who cares? That is for a jury to decide. I sure don't know if the drugs in his system contributed to his physical condition's decline either; but it is for a jury to decide. Chauvin may be found guilty, of a lesser charge, but my opinion is it won't be for murder.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:27 pm

extender wrote:
Who cares? That is for a jury to decide. I sure don't know if the drugs in his system contributed to his physical condition's decline either; but it is for a jury to decide. Chauvin may be found guilty, of a lesser charge, but my opinion is it won't be for murder.


I have been keeping up with the trial. It has gone well. The prosecution has presented a good, effective case. The cop was out of line. There are many police practices that need to be re-thought.

The defense will raise the question about George Floyd's cause of death. I have a question too. That question is, was Floyd already dying before Chauvin showed up? Was Floyd being uncooperative because he was dying? I don't know. That is key for me. If Floyd was already dying, then Chauvin did not kill him, and may not have even known Floyd was in any danger.

What encourages me most is that the witnesses and lawyers seem to be doing a very good job.
 
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seb146
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:45 pm

bennett123 wrote:
I was referring to George Floyd's behavior.

He was clearly non co operative, and at the same time seemed, as I said borderline hysterical.


If someone were standing on your neck for nine minutes and didn't know why, wouldn't you be, too?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:49 pm

I saw someone point out that Rush Limbaugh was an opioid addict and he got some medal. George Floyd allegedly had opioids in his system and tried to buy something at a corner market.

Of course the cop is going to get off. Even with the jury being told of only two of his reports of anger issues on the job. There were others, but they were not all allowed.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 020506002/
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casinterest
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:00 pm

extender wrote:
Who cares? That is for a jury to decide. I sure don't know if the drugs in his system contributed to his physical condition's decline either; but it is for a jury to decide. Chauvin may be found guilty, of a lesser charge, but my opinion is it won't be for murder.


Who cares? Let's all remember that you brought it up. The drugs and the training.


Either way, A Cardiologist is testifying that the police were so gracsious that they kept their knee on Floyd for 2 minutes and 44 seconds after they found he had no pulse. People drown in that amount of time.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/derek- ... 3b3ff64fc7

T
he expert said the restraints on Floyd continued even after he stopped breathing.

"No, the restraints continued after that — he has the cessation of respiratory efforts. When you last take a breath the knee remains on the neck for another 3:27 after he takes his last breath. There's the knee remains. After there's no pulse, the knee remains on the neck for another 2:44 after the officers have found themselves, there's no pulse, the knee remains on the neck another 2:44," Tobin said.



And the drugs seem to be a non issue.

Dr. Martin Tobin, a pulmonary expert, acknowledged that George Floyd had pre-existing conditions but said a healthy person would have died under the same conditions Floyd was subjected to.

The prosecutor asked Tobin if he had "an opinion of reasonable degree of medical certainty as to whether a person who had none of those pre-existing health conditions, a healthy person, would have died under the certain same circumstances of Mr. Floyd?"

Tobin responded:

"Yes. A healthy person subjected to what Mr. Floyd was subjected to, would have died as a result of what he was subjected to."


It will be interesting how the defense refutes all of this.
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bennett123
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:41 pm

seb146 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
I was referring to George Floyd's behavior.

He was clearly non co operative, and at the same time seemed, as I said borderline hysterical.


If someone were standing on your neck for nine minutes and didn't know why, wouldn't you be, too?


I meant from the word go, not after he was on the ground with the cop on top of him.
 
meecrob
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:36 pm

extender wrote:
"Trained," being the operative word. Was Chauvin properly trained? What does his training records indicate?

Link

Even if Floyd said he didn't do drugs:

In addition to fentanyl and methamphetamine, the toxicology report from the autopsy showed that Floyd also had cannabinoids in his system when he died.

Link


Hold on, so doing illegal drugs deserves death?
 
meecrob
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:52 pm

bennett123 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
I was referring to George Floyd's behavior.

He was clearly non co operative, and at the same time seemed, as I said borderline hysterical.


If someone were standing on your neck for nine minutes and didn't know why, wouldn't you be, too?


I meant from the word go, not after he was on the ground with the cop on top of him.


What is it, 15 seconds from the start of the video the police pulled their weapons on him?

Like, the guy was probably a total jackass and not a person you would want to be neighbours with, but we are civilized and do not kill people because they are jackasses.
 
extender
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:24 pm

casinterest wrote:
Who cares?


Actually, you wrote "Who Cares?"

casinterest wrote:
It will be interesting how the defense refutes all of this.


The defense doesn't have to refute it, they have to create reasonable doubt.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:47 pm

extender wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Who cares?


Actually, you wrote "Who Cares?"

casinterest wrote:
It will be interesting how the defense refutes all of this.


The defense doesn't have to refute it, they have to create reasonable doubt.


No, that was rhetorical to yours. However the defense is going to have a hard time creating reasonable doubt since the county and private coroners called the cause of death homicide.

https://content.govdelivery.com/attachm ... ticleShare
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:36 am

The key Prosecution witness, Dr Martin Tobin, could be considered the world’s leading expert on breathing. He literally wrote the book on respiration.

He tore the defence case apart today. Used actual footage of Floyd struggling to breath to determine his respiration rate, and concluded is was far too high to be from a Fentanyl overdose. He also used the amount of CO2 in Floyd’s system to determiner was not consistent with a Fentanyl overdose. Also the pattern of the heartbeat was consistent with asphyxiation not overdose. And pointing out Chauvin’s toes were off the ground, meaning his full body weight is being directed into Floyd’s neck, not just partial pressure to keep him on the ground.

The key line - “A healthy person without Fentanyl in their system would have died subjected to the same forces the Floyd was subjected to”.

If Chauvin isn’t found guilty now of at least 3rd degree murder it’s obvious there was a biased jury.
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:21 am

Out of curiosity, how is the jury selected, and what its racial make-up? Does the defence get to reject a number of selections, as they would here in Ireland?
 
extender
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:30 am

Braybuddy wrote:
Does the defence get to reject a number of selections, as they would here in Ireland?


Yes, both the state and the defense have a certain number of challenges in the voir dire process.
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:41 am

extender wrote:
Braybuddy wrote:
Does the defence get to reject a number of selections, as they would here in Ireland?


Yes, both the state and the defense have a certain number of challenges in the voir dire process.

Thanks. So what is the racial make-up of the jury, or do we know?
 
extender
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:47 am

Braybuddy wrote:
Thanks. So what is the racial make-up of the jury, or do we know?


The seated jury is comprised of nine women and five men. Eight are White, four are Black and two identify as multi-racial. The jurors range in age from their 20s to a grandmother in her 60s.

Attorneys and the judge worked through more than 100 people, dismissing most because they acknowledged strong views about the death that was captured on bystander video.

Link


This trial should have taken place somewhere else.
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:45 am

extender wrote:
The seated jury is comprised of nine women and five men. Eight are White, four are Black and two identify as multi-racial. The jurors range in age from their 20s to a grandmother in her 60s.

Attorneys and the judge worked through more than 100 people, dismissing most because they acknowledged strong views about the death that was captured on bystander video.

Link

.

Thanks for that.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:31 pm

extender wrote:
This trial should have taken place somewhere else.


This trial should have never taken place. Whoever advised Chauvin misled him. He should have tried for manslaughter deal. He will be convicted and now risks murder in the 3rd. Video is too damning.
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Aaron747
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:05 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
extender wrote:
This trial should have taken place somewhere else.


This trial should have never taken place. Whoever advised Chauvin misled him. He should have tried for manslaughter deal. He will be convicted and now risks murder in the 3rd. Video is too damning.


Video + medical expert testimony are too damning. Dr. Tobin used timestamps in the video for each point he made.
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petertenthije
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:18 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
This trial should have never taken place.

Why do you think there should not have been a trial?

How does that work in the USA? Who decides if a trial is warranted?

From my (Dutch) point of view: an independant organisation investigates workplace accidents/deaths. They decide if the dead was an accident or if it could have been avoided. They also determine if the defendant(s) and casualty where following rules and procedures. Based on this investigation the public prosecutor may decide on a trial.
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Aaron747
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:23 pm

petertenthije wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
This trial should have never taken place.

Why do you think there should not have been a trial?

How does that work in the USA? Who decides if a trial is warranted?

From my (Dutch) point of view: an independant organisation investigates workplace accidents/deaths. They decide if the dead was an accident or if it could have been avoided. They also determine if the defendant(s) and casualty where following rules and procedures. Based on this investigation the public prosecutor may decide on a trial.


Trial can be avoided by making a plea deal with prosecutors in the US. If you deny guilt and the state feels it has a strong case it’ll go to trial.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
aerosreenivas
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:39 am

So far, from what I have seen in the ongoing trial of 'Derek Chauvin', it seems 'All Promising ' that the prosecutors have done a great job in proving that Floyd's death was a cause of 'Police Officer's Excessive Force'.

But I'm concerned that the verdict is going to end up in favour 'Derek Chauvin'. In the coming weeks, the defense team will have their witness pushing harder this point that Floyd died of Drugs.

This somehow will convince the Jurors and they will not punish the former police officer.

The verdict for this case will turn up in the same way as how George Zimmerman proved that killing 'Trevon Martin' was in act of 'Self-Defense'.

So far, in many cases involving police officers, 99% of the time, the jurors have been in the favor of the 'Men In Blue'. No matter, how convincing the evidence might show that the 'Unarmed Person' was unnecessarily killed by the police officer.

That is why I don't know how the jurors are going to 'Convict Chauvin'.
 
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seb146
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:26 pm

aerosreenivas wrote:
So far, from what I have seen in the ongoing trial of 'Derek Chauvin', it seems 'All Promising ' that the prosecutors have done a great job in proving that Floyd's death was a cause of 'Police Officer's Excessive Force'.

But I'm concerned that the verdict is going to end up in favour 'Derek Chauvin'. In the coming weeks, the defense team will have their witness pushing harder this point that Floyd died of Drugs.

This somehow will convince the Jurors and they will not punish the former police officer.

The verdict for this case will turn up in the same way as how George Zimmerman proved that killing 'Trevon Martin' was in act of 'Self-Defense'.

So far, in many cases involving police officers, 99% of the time, the jurors have been in the favor of the 'Men In Blue'. No matter, how convincing the evidence might show that the 'Unarmed Person' was unnecessarily killed by the police officer.

That is why I don't know how the jurors are going to 'Convict Chauvin'.


And this will lead to more protests and more "but why are they protesting because justice was done" and more distrust of cops in general. Defund their unions. Take away their "qualified immunity". Hold them to the same standards as the rest of us.
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bennett123
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:12 pm

Not sure that you can hold them to the same standards.

They do no have the same role as Joe Public.

If a crime is being committed, Joe Public can walk away.
 
af773atmsp
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:45 pm

So if the police kill an unarmed Joe Public we should just brush it off and move on?
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N583JB
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:46 pm

af773atmsp wrote:
So if the police kill an unarmed Joe Public we should just brush it off and move on?


Depends on the circumstances of the case.
 
FGITD
Posts: 1572
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:38 am

bennett123 wrote:
Not sure that you can hold them to the same standards.

They do no have the same role as Joe Public.

If a crime is being committed, Joe Public can walk away.


That’s where I see the qualified immunity removal movement failing.

You cannot hold police officers to the same standard as a civilian because they carry a responsibility. If I’m in a gas station and a guy runs in with a gun, I’m getting the hell out of there, and good luck everyone behind me.

Cops? Not so much. They can’t just drive by and say “huh, that sucks for them”

Take away the immunity and wait and see how many times the police back off or do nothing out of fear for their own wellbeing or careers. It’s a risky game. And I can’t say I’d blame the officer who didn’t want to apprehend a violent assailant or suspect out of fear that something goes wrong, and a jury gets to spend 5 weeks dissecting a decision the officer had 5 seconds to make.
 
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seb146
Posts: 23708
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:36 am

bennett123 wrote:
Not sure that you can hold them to the same standards.

They do no have the same role as Joe Public.

If a crime is being committed, Joe Public can walk away.


Kneeling on the back of an unarmed person until they die can not be the same across the board? Really??

They DO have the same role as Joe Public. Taking a life is taking a life. Why do cops get to walk free but the rest of us don't? Why are there two sets of rules? Why do cops get to live their lives after killing unarmed people but the rest of us don't?

George Floyd tried to walk away.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
N583JB
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:11 am

seb146 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Not sure that you can hold them to the same standards.

They do no have the same role as Joe Public.

If a crime is being committed, Joe Public can walk away.


Kneeling on the back of an unarmed person until they die can not be the same across the board? Really??

They DO have the same role as Joe Public. Taking a life is taking a life. Why do cops get to walk free but the rest of us don't? Why are there two sets of rules? Why do cops get to live their lives after killing unarmed people but the rest of us don't?

George Floyd tried to walk away.


Cops have different rules because cops have different responsibilities and expectations. You aren't required to apprehend criminals. Police are.
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2987
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:00 pm

N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Not sure that you can hold them to the same standards.

They do no have the same role as Joe Public.

If a crime is being committed, Joe Public can walk away.


Kneeling on the back of an unarmed person until they die can not be the same across the board? Really??

They DO have the same role as Joe Public. Taking a life is taking a life. Why do cops get to walk free but the rest of us don't? Why are there two sets of rules? Why do cops get to live their lives after killing unarmed people but the rest of us don't?

George Floyd tried to walk away.


Cops have different rules because cops have different responsibilities and expectations. You aren't required to apprehend criminals. Police are.


Yes, and it's a responsibility of the police to try to protect people, not murder them in cold blood while dozens of people sit back and watch in horror. I sometimes can't believe some of the things people defend... Imagine if George Floyd had been a white woman, which, before you say that a white woman doesn't pose the same threat as George Floyd did, would have been the equivalent situation with George Floyd handcuffed with his face to the pavement as four strong, male, heavily armed police officers stood over him (one of them kneeling with nearly all of his body weight). All four of these cops would have already been sentenced with murder and in prison. Why is it that when black men are killed by police people bend over backwards to somehow find a way to defend the indefensible?

Jeremy
 
N583JB
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:55 pm

SESGDL wrote:
N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Kneeling on the back of an unarmed person until they die can not be the same across the board? Really??

They DO have the same role as Joe Public. Taking a life is taking a life. Why do cops get to walk free but the rest of us don't? Why are there two sets of rules? Why do cops get to live their lives after killing unarmed people but the rest of us don't?

George Floyd tried to walk away.


Cops have different rules because cops have different responsibilities and expectations. You aren't required to apprehend criminals. Police are.


Yes, and it's a responsibility of the police to try to protect people, not murder them in cold blood while dozens of people sit back and watch in horror. I sometimes can't believe some of the things people defend... Imagine if George Floyd had been a white woman, which, before you say that a white woman doesn't pose the same threat as George Floyd did, would have been the equivalent situation with George Floyd handcuffed with his face to the pavement as four strong, male, heavily armed police officers stood over him (one of them kneeling with nearly all of his body weight). All four of these cops would have already been sentenced with murder and in prison. Why is it that when black men are killed by police people bend over backwards to somehow find a way to defend the indefensible?

Jeremy


I wasn't referring to the Floyd case, just policing in general. I believe that Chauvin is guilty.
 
phugoid1982
Posts: 128
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:39 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Whatever hes convicted of people won't be happy, the city will probably burn, rinse and repeat.


I'm honestly just sick of all the coverage on the news about the trial. Chauvin was a bully given his history and he definitely should go to to prison for a long time. But I'm sick of the lionization of Floyd. It's sad for his family and he didn't deserve to die but he should've been cooperative and obviously had a he not been high as a kite he would've lived. The $27mil settlement is disgusting though and from a legal point of view doesn't it make it harder for Chauvin to get a fair trial (event though I want him convicted) when the massive payout gives the impression he's already guilty. It's all these wimpy government officials caving into rioters who go out and destroy businesses like they are doing again in MN yesterday after the other shooting. On the other hand, Dr. Lawrence Crosby, a black Ph.D Engineering student at Northwestern with a clean record was pulled over about 6 years ago and tackled by cops and arrested because some racist fool thought he was stealing his own car. All he got was paltry $1.25 million. Off course he made it out with his life but from a strictly actuarial point of view I guess (Floyd was never going to make that kind of money in his lifetime). Dr. Crosby will and he spent years having to rebuild his reputation. And barely a peep from the media about this, a law abiding citizen with a clean record.

Plus, what about the Pakistani uber eats driver killed a few weeks ago in DC when two teenagers tried to steal his car and he clung to the door and was killed when they crashed? Not a peep from our Mayor. Those teens got no prison time either. As a person of Indian decent, we just don't fit into the identity politics of both parties so one's gonna burn and loot for us when we're attacked even with all the anti-asian sentiment fueled by COVID
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13475
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:58 pm

phugoid1982 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Whatever hes convicted of people won't be happy, the city will probably burn, rinse and repeat.


I'm honestly just sick of all the coverage on the news about the trial. Chauvin was a bully given his history and he definitely should go to to prison for a long time. But I'm sick of the lionization of Floyd. It's sad for his family and he didn't deserve to die but he should've been cooperative and obviously had a he not been high as a kite he would've lived. The $27mil settlement is disgusting though and from a legal point of view doesn't it make it harder for Chauvin to get a fair trial (event though I want him convicted) when the massive payout gives the impression he's already guilty. It's all these wimpy government officials caving into rioters who go out and destroy businesses like they are doing again in MN yesterday after the other shooting. On the other hand, Dr. Lawrence Crosby, a black Ph.D Engineering student at Northwestern with a clean record was pulled over about 6 years ago and tackled by cops and arrested because some racist fool thought he was stealing his own car. All he got was paltry $1.25 million. Off course he made it out with his life but from a strictly actuarial point of view I guess (Floyd was never going to make that kind of money in his lifetime). Dr. Crosby will and he spent years having to rebuild his reputation. And barely a peep from the media about this, a law abiding citizen with a clean record.

Plus, what about the Pakistani uber eats driver killed a few weeks ago in DC when two teenagers tried to steal his car and he clung to the door and was killed when they crashed? Not a peep from our Mayor. Those teens got no prison time either. As a person of Indian decent, we just don't fit into the identity politics of both parties so one's gonna burn and loot for us when we're attacked even with all the anti-asian sentiment fueled by COVID


No one burned or looted for Tony Timpa despite the police doing there best to cover it up for many years and the officers were let off, image what would have happened if Tony was black?? Nobody burned or looted for Justine Diamond either. If peope can’t see the hypocrisy in this they clearly have a bigoted POV.

The police kill citizens in the US with alarming regularity, but it only matters when the person that kill is black.
 
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seb146
Posts: 23708
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:55 pm

N583JB wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
N583JB wrote:

Cops have different rules because cops have different responsibilities and expectations. You aren't required to apprehend criminals. Police are.


Yes, and it's a responsibility of the police to try to protect people, not murder them in cold blood while dozens of people sit back and watch in horror. I sometimes can't believe some of the things people defend... Imagine if George Floyd had been a white woman, which, before you say that a white woman doesn't pose the same threat as George Floyd did, would have been the equivalent situation with George Floyd handcuffed with his face to the pavement as four strong, male, heavily armed police officers stood over him (one of them kneeling with nearly all of his body weight). All four of these cops would have already been sentenced with murder and in prison. Why is it that when black men are killed by police people bend over backwards to somehow find a way to defend the indefensible?

Jeremy


I wasn't referring to the Floyd case, just policing in general. I believe that Chauvin is guilty.


Chauvin and the other cops on scene had a responsibility to not kill an unarmed person who was not a threat to their lives. Yet, George Floyd ended up dead while in custody. Which goes against their responsibility. George Floyd was subdued. That was the cops responsibility. Not kneeling on his back until he died. Cops have a responsibility. The "blue lives matter" crowd always comes out with "well, if he had just complied" like there is only one side to any killing of an unarmed person. There are two sides. Both sides have a certain responsibility. When one side does the responsible thing and is still blamed for their own death, something is wrong and needs to change.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:21 pm

Well the MN police killed another unarmed Black man last night, only miles from where George Floyd was murdered and the trial is taking place now. There's going to be riots if that pig bastard is set free.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
extender
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:27 pm

SESGDL wrote:
... Imagine if George Floyd had been a white woman, which, before you say that a white woman doesn't pose the same threat as George Floyd did, would have been the equivalent situation with George Floyd handcuffed with his face to the pavement as four strong, male, heavily armed police officers stood over him (one of them kneeling with nearly all of his body weight). All four of these cops would have already been sentenced with murder and in prison. Why is it that when black men are killed by police people bend over backwards to somehow find a way to defend the indefensible?


Wouldn't bat an eye for Casey Antony...

On another note, George Floyd was on borrowed time.

Pellegrine wrote:
Well the MN police killed another unarmed Black man last night, only miles from where George Floyd was murdered and the trial is taking place now. There's going to be riots if that pig bastard is set free.


Mob rule, eh?
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