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casinterest
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:01 pm

bigGAplane wrote:
casinterest wrote:
bigGAplane wrote:

It's not just "someone" as you know but choose to ignore. It's one of the most powerful members of Congress. That's the reason the judge himself made the comments he did.

The fact that the jury handed down a verdict so quickly, didn't ask any questions, didn't pass on any notes or anything else plays right into the hand of the defense as far as an appeal goes.



They can appeal it while Chauvin sits in Jail. It's been done many times in many cases.
They are not going to be able to change the fact that the defense lost this case on their own, without outside influence. They had to pay retirees from many states away to testify about possible causes of death.


...and even with those witnesses there were attempts at intimidation (which is illegal).

https://www.twincities.com/2021/04/19/f ... ead-blood/



That was after the appearance in the trial.
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alfa164
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:06 pm

Anyone who watched the trial - and it was an amazing trial to watch - could not honestly say they were surprised by this verdict. Indeed, the most surprising thing to me - after more than 30 years in law - was not the verdict, but the way in which the "code of silence" among law enforcement was broken. When the most senior detective in the Minneapolis Police Department testifies against the defendant; when the Chief of Police of the Minneapolis Police Department testifies against the defendant; and when the Attorney General of the State of Minnesota takes a personal role in the case... that tells you something about the weight of the evidence against Chauvin.

I saw prosecutors put together a deliberate, clear, and logical case - and the defense fumbled to counter any of the witnesses. It was not any outside pressure or threats of violence that brought this verdict; it was the words and evidence presented in the courtroom. That was overwhelming, and, by the end of the trial, nobody should have been surprised.


bigGAplane wrote:
The fact that the jury handed down a verdict so quickly, didn't ask any questions, didn't pass on any notes or anything else plays right into the hand of the defense as far as an appeal goes.


Don't bet on that. The fact that the jury handed down a verdict so quickly, didn't ask any questions, didn't pass on notes or anything else shows 1) how persuasive the evidence and arguments of the prosecution was; and 2) how clearly the Judge drew up and presented the Jury Instructions. Anyone who actually watched the trial would have seen that - and would have no qualms about the Jury's verdict.


casinterest wrote:
They are not going to be able to change the fact that the defense lost this case on their own, without outside influence. They had to pay retirees from many states away to testify about possible causes of death.


:checkmark: And one of those "hired guns" from out-of-state was repudiated by his own former Police Chief. The Defense failed miserably, and their desperation was evident.
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art
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:54 pm

The defendant was found guilty. It is simply a verdict in a court case but I hope it registers with police that they cannot restrain people in a manner that could threaten their life without risking prosecution and conviction if the person being restrained should die.
Last edited by art on Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
luckyone
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:58 pm

art wrote:
The defendant was found guilty. It is simply a verdict in a court case but I hope it registers with police that they cannot restrain people in a manner that could threaten their life without risking prosecution and conviction if the person being restrained should die.

Agreed. In the hospital we restrain people on a daily basis -- and they're in far worse shape that George Floyd, often acutely strung out on meth and/or some opioid. And we do it without stepping on their necks.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:00 pm

Some here obviously saw a different trial than the rest of us did...or something. The defense had chances to introduce doubt to a thinking person, and failed in key moments. The prosecution witnesses were devastating. That was clear days ago.
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sierrakilo44
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:14 pm

bigGAplane wrote:

The fact that the jury handed down a verdict so quickly, didn't ask any questions, didn't pass on any notes or anything else plays right into the hand of the defense as far as an appeal goes.


The jury needed to prove that Chauvin committed a felony that resulted in the death of Floyd to find him guilty of second degree murder.

“Did he commit felony assault?” - yes, as the police chief, instructor and all police witnesses said his restraint technique was not approved or taught by police.

“Did this felony assault lead to the death of Floyd?” yes, as all the medical experts ruled out fentanyl and heart disease.

That’s all they needed to prove. I’m actually surprised it took more than a few hours.

Chauvin is guilty and will be going behind bars (for his sake into protective custody) for a very long time.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:21 pm

The Appeal should be interesting....

DERSHOWITZ: The trial should have been moved out of urban Minneapolis to a rural area and the jury should have been sequestered from day one

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status ... 28994?s=20


DERSHOWITZ: What Maxine Waters did, coupled with the judge refusing to sequester the jury, will lead to the US Supreme Court ultimately reversing any conviction for Derek Chauvin

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status ... 86049?s=20
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Aaron747
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:26 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The Appeal should be interesting....

DERSHOWITZ: The trial should have been moved out of urban Minneapolis to a rural area and the jury should have been sequestered from day one

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status ... 28994?s=20


DERSHOWITZ: What Maxine Waters did, coupled with the judge refusing to sequester the jury, will lead to the US Supreme Court ultimately reversing any conviction for Derek Chauvin

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status ... 86049?s=20


Waters’s comments are immaterial and he knows it. There will be appeal on the basis of the trial not being moved - everyone knows that.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:27 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The Appeal should be interesting....

DERSHOWITZ: The trial should have been moved out of urban Minneapolis to a rural area and the jury should have been sequestered from day one

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status ... 28994?s=20


DERSHOWITZ: What Maxine Waters did, coupled with the judge refusing to sequester the jury, will lead to the US Supreme Court ultimately reversing any conviction for Derek Chauvin

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status ... 86049?s=20


Not to forget Dershowitz has gone really right wing of late and right wingers really want Chauvin to be found not guilty to attack BLM.

High profile cases have comments made about them all the time. I reckon right wing media may have been advised to play up ANY comment from a high profile person connected to Floyd (an African American Congresswoman would do nicely) in order to try and make a defence case for appeal, because based upon the evidence at trial there’s no doubt Chauvin is guilty.

The trial should have been moved out of urban Minneapolis to a rural area


Why not just move it to rural Arkansas or Mississippi to a 100% white town Alan? When Dershowitz says “move it to a rural area” that’s code for “move it to somewhere where we have a higher chance of getting a more racist jury”.
 
bigGAplane
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:33 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The Appeal should be interesting....

DERSHOWITZ: The trial should have been moved out of urban Minneapolis to a rural area and the jury should have been sequestered from day one

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status ... 28994?s=20


DERSHOWITZ: What Maxine Waters did, coupled with the judge refusing to sequester the jury, will lead to the US Supreme Court ultimately reversing any conviction for Derek Chauvin

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status ... 86049?s=20


This case won't make it to the US Supreme Court. They hear a VERY LIMITED number of cases. There will be an appeal and it will probably be done after that.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:40 pm

alfa164 wrote:
but the way in which the "code of silence" among law enforcement was broken. When the most senior detective in the Minneapolis Police Department testifies against the defendant; when the Chief of Police of the Minneapolis Police Department testifies against the defendant; and when the Attorney General of the State of Minnesota takes a personal role in the case... that tells you something about the weight of the evidence against Chauvin.


As said by several legal experts, prosecutors who work with law enforcement, rarely charge, even it they charge, they don't try the case to the best of their ability, on top there are always technicalities and appeals. Every one involved in Freddie Gray rough ride killing in Baltimore got out on some technicality.

What happened here sets a wrong precedence for some. Status quo is preferred.
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NYCVIE
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:02 am

It's actually so outrageously embarrassing that media conservatives and some on here even have the audacity to publicly look and sound defeated because someone who the entire world watched commit a murder was convicted of... murder.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:10 am

NYCVIE wrote:
It's actually so outrageously embarrassing that media conservatives and some on here even have the audacity to publicly look and sound defeated because someone who the entire world watched commit a murder was convicted of... murder.


No surprise we’re seeing a big overlap with those saying “Chauvin is innocent and didn’t receive a fair trial” and those saying “Trump really won the election and had it stolen from him due to Democrats committing fraud”.

This trial has been politicised from the moment the video footage of Chauvin stomping on Floyd’s neck was released.

If you’re right wing you’re very likely to believe Chauvin is innocent, just like you believe Trump actually won. It’s all about taking a political side and always believing your side is correct, and if your side loses it wasn’t fair and it was because the other side cheated.
Last edited by sierrakilo44 on Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:39 am

alfa164 wrote:
Anyone who watched the trial - and it was an amazing trial to watch - could not honestly say they were surprised by this verdict. Indeed, the most surprising thing to me - after more than 30 years in law - was not the verdict, but the way in which the "code of silence" among law enforcement was broken. When the most senior detective in the Minneapolis Police Department testifies against the defendant; when the Chief of Police of the Minneapolis Police Department testifies against the defendant; and when the Attorney General of the State of Minnesota takes a personal role in the case... that tells you something about the weight of the evidence against Chauvin.

I saw prosecutors put together a deliberate, clear, and logical case - and the defense fumbled to counter any of the witnesses. It was not any outside pressure or threats of violence that brought this verdict; it was the words and evidence presented in the courtroom. That was overwhelming, and, by the end of the trial, nobody should have been surprised.


bigGAplane wrote:
The fact that the jury handed down a verdict so quickly, didn't ask any questions, didn't pass on any notes or anything else plays right into the hand of the defense as far as an appeal goes.


Don't bet on that. The fact that the jury handed down a verdict so quickly, didn't ask any questions, didn't pass on notes or anything else shows 1) how persuasive the evidence and arguments of the prosecution was; and 2) how clearly the Judge drew up and presented the Jury Instructions. Anyone who actually watched the trial would have seen that - and would have no qualms about the Jury's verdict.


casinterest wrote:
They are not going to be able to change the fact that the defense lost this case on their own, without outside influence. They had to pay retirees from many states away to testify about possible causes of death.


:checkmark: And one of those "hired guns" from out-of-state was repudiated by his own former Police Chief. The Defense failed miserably, and their desperation was evident.


Thanks for the post. I agree the prosecution on this case made an efficient, no-nonsense prosecution.

The defense was a threat, because you COULD argue there was some reasonable doubt about Floyd's cause of death. This was an important argument to hash out in court, with experts. This was done.

Good trial, good verdict.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:04 am

LCDFlight wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
Anyone who watched the trial - and it was an amazing trial to watch - could not honestly say they were surprised by this verdict. Indeed, the most surprising thing to me - after more than 30 years in law - was not the verdict, but the way in which the "code of silence" among law enforcement was broken. When the most senior detective in the Minneapolis Police Department testifies against the defendant; when the Chief of Police of the Minneapolis Police Department testifies against the defendant; and when the Attorney General of the State of Minnesota takes a personal role in the case... that tells you something about the weight of the evidence against Chauvin.

I saw prosecutors put together a deliberate, clear, and logical case - and the defense fumbled to counter any of the witnesses. It was not any outside pressure or threats of violence that brought this verdict; it was the words and evidence presented in the courtroom. That was overwhelming, and, by the end of the trial, nobody should have been surprised.


bigGAplane wrote:
The fact that the jury handed down a verdict so quickly, didn't ask any questions, didn't pass on any notes or anything else plays right into the hand of the defense as far as an appeal goes.


Don't bet on that. The fact that the jury handed down a verdict so quickly, didn't ask any questions, didn't pass on notes or anything else shows 1) how persuasive the evidence and arguments of the prosecution was; and 2) how clearly the Judge drew up and presented the Jury Instructions. Anyone who actually watched the trial would have seen that - and would have no qualms about the Jury's verdict.


casinterest wrote:
They are not going to be able to change the fact that the defense lost this case on their own, without outside influence. They had to pay retirees from many states away to testify about possible causes of death.


:checkmark: And one of those "hired guns" from out-of-state was repudiated by his own former Police Chief. The Defense failed miserably, and their desperation was evident.


Thanks for the post. I agree the prosecution on this case made an efficient, no-nonsense prosecution.

The defense was a threat, because you COULD argue there was some reasonable doubt about Floyd's cause of death. This was an important argument to hash out in court, with experts. This was done.

Good trial, good verdict.



The only person that could refute all the testimony, chose to take the 5th. That was eye opening to me, and you could see my post about it earlier.
There were not outstanding circumstances to lay out from Chauvin's point of view. If you are going to defend the training or lack thereof, you need to present yourself to refute the visual and audio evidence the world saw.

The defense was presenting alternative scenarios of death. Chauvin could have reinforced those wit "his training and emotions". All those other reasonable doubts about alternatives were gone when Chauvin chose to take the 5th.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
aerosreenivas
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:49 am

Finally, the right verdict has been given. Derek Chauvin 'Guilty On All Counts'. Justice is served.
 
AirframeAS
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:58 am

It is quite apparent to me that Chauvin showed absolutely no remorse during and after the verdict was read. He seemed to simply not care, nor does he understand the seriousness of what he did.
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AirframeAS
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:59 am

aerosreenivas wrote:
Derek Chauvin 'Guilty On All Counts'. Justice is served.


Justice hasn't exactly been served yet.... it isn't over until he has been sentenced and exhausted all his appeals THEN justice has been served.
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bigGAplane
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:13 am

AirframeAS wrote:
aerosreenivas wrote:
Derek Chauvin 'Guilty On All Counts'. Justice is served.


Justice hasn't exactly been served yet.... it isn't over until he has been sentenced and exhausted all his appeals THEN justice has been served.


According to some the meaning of "justice" means they got their way. And that in itself is a problem.
 
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:18 am

Justice prevailed today, and I sincerely hope Chauvin doesn't manage to weasel his way out of this. He did something wrong and now he has to face the consequences of those actions. I also hope this moment is a wake up call to police departments across the country.

For those claiming this was mob rule, when will it ever not be mob rule? Every time a police officer kills a black person and is convicted are you going to claim it was mob rule? Under what circumstances would you acknowledge it wasn't mob rule? Seems to me it's never enough.
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:49 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
The Appeal should be interesting....

DERSHOWITZ: The trial should have been moved out of urban Minneapolis to a rural area and the jury should have been sequestered from day one

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status ... 28994?s=20


DERSHOWITZ: What Maxine Waters did, coupled with the judge refusing to sequester the jury, will lead to the US Supreme Court ultimately reversing any conviction for Derek Chauvin

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status ... 86049?s=20


Not to forget Dershowitz has gone really right wing of late and right wingers really want Chauvin to be found not guilty to attack BLM.

High profile cases have comments made about them all the time. I reckon right wing media may have been advised to play up ANY comment from a high profile person connected to Floyd (an African American Congresswoman would do nicely) in order to try and make a defence case for appeal, because based upon the evidence at trial there’s no doubt Chauvin is guilty.

The trial should have been moved out of urban Minneapolis to a rural area


Why not just move it to rural Arkansas or Mississippi to a 100% white town Alan? When Dershowitz says “move it to a rural area” that’s code for “move it to somewhere where we have a higher chance of getting a more racist jury”.


I guess the thinking would be so that the defendant could be tried by a jury "of his peers."
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cskok8
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:03 am

casinterest wrote:
bigGAplane wrote:
Airontario wrote:

Nope, that's not close to enough for me. Imagine the precedent that would set if a verdict (returned in a single day), could be overturned because someone from outside the trial said “We’ve got to stay on the street, and we’ve got to get more active."


It's not just "someone" as you know but choose to ignore. It's one of the most powerful members of Congress. That's the reason the judge himself made the comments he did.

The fact that the jury handed down a verdict so quickly, didn't ask any questions, didn't pass on any notes or anything else plays right into the hand of the defense as far as an appeal goes.



They can appeal it while Chauvin sits in Jail. It's been done many times in many cases.
They are not going to be able to change the fact that the defense lost this case on their own, without outside influence. They had to pay retirees from many states away to testify about possible causes of death.


One of them did not retire, he was forced to resign
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:14 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
The Appeal should be interesting....

DERSHOWITZ: The trial should have been moved out of urban Minneapolis to a rural area and the jury should have been sequestered from day one

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status ... 28994?s=20


DERSHOWITZ: What Maxine Waters did, coupled with the judge refusing to sequester the jury, will lead to the US Supreme Court ultimately reversing any conviction for Derek Chauvin

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status ... 86049?s=20


Not to forget Dershowitz has gone really right wing of late and right wingers really want Chauvin to be found not guilty to attack BLM.

High profile cases have comments made about them all the time. I reckon right wing media may have been advised to play up ANY comment from a high profile person connected to Floyd (an African American Congresswoman would do nicely) in order to try and make a defence case for appeal, because based upon the evidence at trial there’s no doubt Chauvin is guilty.

The trial should have been moved out of urban Minneapolis to a rural area


Why not just move it to rural Arkansas or Mississippi to a 100% white town Alan? When Dershowitz says “move it to a rural area” that’s code for “move it to somewhere where we have a higher chance of getting a more racist jury”.


I guess the thinking would be so that the defendant could be tried by a jury "of his peers."


Peer in this context means someone of the same legal status - i.e. another adult citizen. That means any American over 18 fit for jury duty will suffice - not limited to people of your same values or social group.
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sierrakilo44
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:45 am

AirframeAS wrote:
It is quite apparent to me that Chauvin showed absolutely no remorse during and after the verdict was read. He seemed to simply not care, nor does he understand the seriousness of what he did.


I think he looked shocked when the guilty verdict was read. His eyes were darting around uncontrollably. It looked like a person who had never been held accountable for anything finally being held accountable.

With all the previous brutality complaints that had not ended his career and countless examples of brutal cops who had been found not guilty when an attempt was made to hold them to account I think Chauvin fully expected a “not guilty” verdict today.

EDIT:

And as it seems from some on this board and social media too I think they were shocked when he was found guilty on all charges. Maybe stop listening to people like Ben Shapiro and Steven Crowder to form your opinions.
Last edited by sierrakilo44 on Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:48 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
AirframeAS wrote:
It is quite apparent to me that Chauvin showed absolutely no remorse during and after the verdict was read. He seemed to simply not care, nor does he understand the seriousness of what he did.


I think he looked shocked when the guilty verdict was read. His eyes were darting around uncontrollably. It looked like a person who had never been held accountable for anything finally being held accountable.

With all the previous brutality complaints that had not ended his career and countless examples of brutal cops who had been found not guilty when an attempt was made to hold them to account I think Chauvin fully expected a “not guilty” verdict today.


Exactly, that was the reaction of an entitled person. People who know they are in the wrong and can admit it are contrite.
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Francoflier
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:57 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
I think he looked shocked when the guilty verdict was read. His eyes were darting around uncontrollably. It looked like a person who had never been held accountable for anything finally being held accountable.


This is why this verdict is so groundbreaking.
The police is expected to act professionally and, like every professional, police officers are expected to be held accountable for any lack of professionalism.

For the police in the US, unfortunately, this is a very new concept.
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Aaron747
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:18 am

Francoflier wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:
I think he looked shocked when the guilty verdict was read. His eyes were darting around uncontrollably. It looked like a person who had never been held accountable for anything finally being held accountable.


This is why this verdict is so groundbreaking.
The police is expected to act professionally and, like every professional, police officers are expected to be held accountable for any lack of professionalism.

For the police in the US, unfortunately, this is a very new concept.


These cases are catalysts, for sure, but that's unfortunately also representative of how slowly real change comes. This ground should have broken in 1992, but the conservative north LA county jury completely failed do what was right.
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Francoflier
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:39 am

Aaron747 wrote:
These cases are catalysts, for sure, but that's unfortunately also representative of how slowly real change comes. This ground should have broken in 1992, but the conservative north LA county jury completely failed do what was right.


True, but credit is due to technology here.

This trial might have unfortunately ended like the previous ones if it wasn't for the ubiquity of smartphones which allow us to witness pretty much anything that happens anywhere anytime, including the brutal and unnecessary murder of a suspect in broad daylight.
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Aesma
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:42 am

extender wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The president nominates judges all over and representatives can't do anything about it. The president has also lots of power over the judicial branch and thus the prosecution. And of course the president is the president. So nothing like a representative.


You do realize that the judicial branch and the executive branch are independent of each other? Checks & Balances? The Senate can do something about judicial choices...


Barr choosing to prosecute or not dodgy Trump stuff didn't look very independant to me. Senators aren't representatives.
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GDB
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:56 am

Francoflier wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
These cases are catalysts, for sure, but that's unfortunately also representative of how slowly real change comes. This ground should have broken in 1992, but the conservative north LA county jury completely failed do what was right.


True, but credit is due to technology here.

This trial might have unfortunately ended like the previous ones if it wasn't for the ubiquity of smartphones which allow us to witness pretty much anything that happens anywhere anytime, including the brutal and unnecessary murder of a suspect in broad daylight.


Very true, one person of courage was the 17 year old young lady who recorded this, holding her camera steady, despite being in close proximity to people she would have every reason to fear. Without this the murder would be unrecorded, the guilty free and clear, in fact the proliferation of all these phone cameras which in numerous cases have lifted the lid on too many cases of unarmed, usually compliant people being subject to the real mob rule, that of police forces with a clear sense of impunity, mostly against minorities. Backed by a wall of silence tighter than the Mafia's.

And if the not very well hidden agendas of the 'our cops do no wrong' think that is outrageous, will you want to check out just the latest examples, both in the US, of cops beating on an old (white) lady who was senile, or a 13 year old kid and you can guess what race they are? Go find them.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:00 am

GDB wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
These cases are catalysts, for sure, but that's unfortunately also representative of how slowly real change comes. This ground should have broken in 1992, but the conservative north LA county jury completely failed do what was right.


True, but credit is due to technology here.

This trial might have unfortunately ended like the previous ones if it wasn't for the ubiquity of smartphones which allow us to witness pretty much anything that happens anywhere anytime, including the brutal and unnecessary murder of a suspect in broad daylight.


Very true, one person of courage was the 17 year old young lady who recorded this, holding her camera steady, despite being in close proximity to people she would have every reason to fear. Without this the murder would be unrecorded, the guilty free and clear, in fact the proliferation of all these phone cameras which in numerous cases have lifted the lid on too many cases of unarmed, usually compliant people being subject to the real mob rule, that of police forces with a clear sense of impunity, mostly against minorities. Backed by a wall of silence tighter than the Mafia's.

And if the not very well hidden agendas of the 'our cops do no wrong' think that is outrageous, will you want to check out just the latest examples, both in the US, of cops beating on an old (white) lady who was senile, or a 13 year old kid and you can guess what race they are? Go find them.


Actually a teenage girl was fatally shot today as well by Columbus OH PD.
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scbriml
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:51 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
Why not just move it to rural Arkansas or Mississippi to a 100% white town Alan? When Dershowitz says “move it to a rural area” that’s code for “move it to somewhere where we have a higher chance of getting a more racist jury”.


DIRECTFLT wrote:
I guess the thinking would be so that the defendant could be tried by a jury "of his peers."


The only thing saving Chauvin is a jury of 12 angry old white men.

bigGAplane wrote:
According to some the meaning of "justice" means they got their way. And that in itself is a problem.


According to some, claiming an "unfair trial" means they didn't get their way. And that in itself is a problem. :spin:

sierrakilo44 wrote:
And as it seems from some on this board and social media too I think they were shocked when he was found guilty on all charges. Maybe stop listening to people like Ben Shapiro and Steven Crowder to form your opinions.


It's absolutely no surprise who are outraged on this very site.

casinterest wrote:
The defense was presenting alternative scenarios of death. Chauvin could have reinforced those wit "his training and emotions". All those other reasonable doubts about alternatives were gone when Chauvin chose to take the 5th.


I understand it is his right, but it sent all the wrong signals. Coffin, meet nail. Foot, meet bullet.


Entire World: Watches a man being killed
Trial: Defendant guilty
Angry white conservatives: iT wAsN't A fAiR tRiAl!
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Kiwirob
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:02 am

Aaron747 wrote:
GDB wrote:
Francoflier wrote:

True, but credit is due to technology here.

This trial might have unfortunately ended like the previous ones if it wasn't for the ubiquity of smartphones which allow us to witness pretty much anything that happens anywhere anytime, including the brutal and unnecessary murder of a suspect in broad daylight.


Very true, one person of courage was the 17 year old young lady who recorded this, holding her camera steady, despite being in close proximity to people she would have every reason to fear. Without this the murder would be unrecorded, the guilty free and clear, in fact the proliferation of all these phone cameras which in numerous cases have lifted the lid on too many cases of unarmed, usually compliant people being subject to the real mob rule, that of police forces with a clear sense of impunity, mostly against minorities. Backed by a wall of silence tighter than the Mafia's.

And if the not very well hidden agendas of the 'our cops do no wrong' think that is outrageous, will you want to check out just the latest examples, both in the US, of cops beating on an old (white) lady who was senile, or a 13 year old kid and you can guess what race they are? Go find them.


Actually a teenage girl was fatally shot today as well by Columbus OH PD.


She was shot whilst trying to stab another girl, I don't think that this can be considered an unjustified police killing, the video shows clearly what she was doing. The slow mo 5 minutes in shows her and the knife. The man kicking the other girl in the head who was on the ground should also consider himself lucky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3rAhT2lm8A
 
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scbriml
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:17 am

Kiwirob wrote:
The man kicking the other girl in the head who was on the ground should also consider himself lucky.


Not as lucky as the woman in pink. Other standing around five yards away: "Yeah, this is normal."
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:24 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
GDB wrote:

Very true, one person of courage was the 17 year old young lady who recorded this, holding her camera steady, despite being in close proximity to people she would have every reason to fear. Without this the murder would be unrecorded, the guilty free and clear, in fact the proliferation of all these phone cameras which in numerous cases have lifted the lid on too many cases of unarmed, usually compliant people being subject to the real mob rule, that of police forces with a clear sense of impunity, mostly against minorities. Backed by a wall of silence tighter than the Mafia's.

And if the not very well hidden agendas of the 'our cops do no wrong' think that is outrageous, will you want to check out just the latest examples, both in the US, of cops beating on an old (white) lady who was senile, or a 13 year old kid and you can guess what race they are? Go find them.


Actually a teenage girl was fatally shot today as well by Columbus OH PD.


She was shot whilst trying to stab another girl, I don't think that this can be considered an unjustified police killing, the video shows clearly what she was doing. The slow mo 5 minutes in shows her and the knife. The man kicking the other girl in the head who was on the ground should also consider himself lucky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3rAhT2lm8A


Nonlethal weapons are effective in disbanding altercations. Since this was a domestic dispute and the teen seemed to be having a violent mental episode, the investigation will be thorough. Such episodes don’t require immediate lethal force in most developed countries. At the same time, there are no charges or anything like that to be brought against this cop - his intent was obviously to prevent the other girl from being attacked.
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Aesma
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:55 am

It's not as black and white as other cases, but it wouldn't have happened like that elsewhere. And people anywhere have knives...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:06 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Actually a teenage girl was fatally shot today as well by Columbus OH PD.


She was shot whilst trying to stab another girl, I don't think that this can be considered an unjustified police killing, the video shows clearly what she was doing. The slow mo 5 minutes in shows her and the knife. The man kicking the other girl in the head who was on the ground should also consider himself lucky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3rAhT2lm8A


Nonlethal weapons are effective in disbanding altercations. Since this was a domestic dispute and the teen seemed to be having a violent mental episode, the investigation will be thorough. Such episodes don’t require immediate lethal force in most developed countries. At the same time, there are no charges or anything like that to be brought against this cop - his intent was obviously to prevent the other girl from being attacked.


Did you watch the body cam footage? It was a fast moving situation, she’d just attacked one girl and was in the process of attacking another, the cop had little time to do anything other than what he did. If he had put his gun away and gone for his taser chances are the other girl would have been stabbed.

This is not like the killing of George Floyd.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:10 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

She was shot whilst trying to stab another girl, I don't think that this can be considered an unjustified police killing, the video shows clearly what she was doing. The slow mo 5 minutes in shows her and the knife. The man kicking the other girl in the head who was on the ground should also consider himself lucky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3rAhT2lm8A


Nonlethal weapons are effective in disbanding altercations. Since this was a domestic dispute and the teen seemed to be having a violent mental episode, the investigation will be thorough. Such episodes don’t require immediate lethal force in most developed countries. At the same time, there are no charges or anything like that to be brought against this cop - his intent was obviously to prevent the other girl from being attacked.


Did you watch the body cam footage? It was a fast moving situation, she’d just attacked one girl and was in the process of attacking another, the cop had little time to do anything other than what he did. If he had put his gun away and gone for his taser chances are the other girl would have been stabbed.

This is not like the killing of George Floyd.


Didn't say it was like that - there were like four cops there at least. The attacker was getting taken down or pulled off one way or another. Lethal force doesn't allow dealing with the suspect afterward if the situation is not fully known and becomes a major liability for the taxpayers. Should be a LAST resort with proper training.
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vrbarreto
Posts: 411
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:20 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

She was shot whilst trying to stab another girl, I don't think that this can be considered an unjustified police killing, the video shows clearly what she was doing. The slow mo 5 minutes in shows her and the knife. The man kicking the other girl in the head who was on the ground should also consider himself lucky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3rAhT2lm8A


Nonlethal weapons are effective in disbanding altercations. Since this was a domestic dispute and the teen seemed to be having a violent mental episode, the investigation will be thorough. Such episodes don’t require immediate lethal force in most developed countries. At the same time, there are no charges or anything like that to be brought against this cop - his intent was obviously to prevent the other girl from being attacked.


Did you watch the body cam footage? It was a fast moving situation, she’d just attacked one girl and was in the process of attacking another, the cop had little time to do anything other than what he did. If he had put his gun away and gone for his taser chances are the other girl would have been stabbed.

This is not like the killing of George Floyd.


I have to agree.. Completely justified shooting.. What sort of animal stabs someone and then tries to stab someone else whilst the police are in attendance.. Also one of her mates kicks the other girl who has been stabbed.. Completely nothing like the Chavin case.. Also her aunt is obviously a liar

Here she says she dropped the knife before being shot

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ng-girl-15

The bodycam footage show her trying to stab someone. Ben Crump is also a liar. Unarmed my foot.

https://youtu.be/T3rAhT2lm8A?t=293
Last edited by vrbarreto on Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:29 am

vrbarreto wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Nonlethal weapons are effective in disbanding altercations. Since this was a domestic dispute and the teen seemed to be having a violent mental episode, the investigation will be thorough. Such episodes don’t require immediate lethal force in most developed countries. At the same time, there are no charges or anything like that to be brought against this cop - his intent was obviously to prevent the other girl from being attacked.


Did you watch the body cam footage? It was a fast moving situation, she’d just attacked one girl and was in the process of attacking another, the cop had little time to do anything other than what he did. If he had put his gun away and gone for his taser chances are the other girl would have been stabbed.

This is not like the killing of George Floyd.


I have to agree.. Completely justified shooting.. What sort of animal stabs someone and then tries to stab someone else whilst the police are in attendance.. Also one of her mates kicks the other girl who has been stabbed.. Completely nothing like the Chavin case.. Also her aunt is obviously a liar

Here she says she dropped the knife before being shot

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ng-girl-15

The bodycam footage show her trying to stab someone. Ben Crump is also a liar.


Disagree regarding the lethal force, but agree the aunt is definitely lying. What she claims is not what's in the footage.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
vrbarreto
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:33 am

Aaron747 wrote:
vrbarreto wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

Did you watch the body cam footage? It was a fast moving situation, she’d just attacked one girl and was in the process of attacking another, the cop had little time to do anything other than what he did. If he had put his gun away and gone for his taser chances are the other girl would have been stabbed.

This is not like the killing of George Floyd.


I have to agree.. Completely justified shooting.. What sort of animal stabs someone and then tries to stab someone else whilst the police are in attendance.. Also one of her mates kicks the other girl who has been stabbed.. Completely nothing like the Chavin case.. Also her aunt is obviously a liar

Here she says she dropped the knife before being shot

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ng-girl-15

The bodycam footage show her trying to stab someone. Ben Crump is also a liar.


Disagree regarding the lethal force, but agree the aunt is definitely lying. What she claims is not what's in the footage.


She was in the process of trying to stab someone, potentially fatally.. What do you expect the police to do in these situations.. In any reasonable country that sort of force would be justified.. If he hadn't shot her the headline would be "White cop stands by whilst allowing stabbing of black teenager"
 
GDB
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:48 am

Aesma wrote:
It's not as black and white as other cases, but it wouldn't have happened like that elsewhere. And people anywhere have knives...


Very true, our police deal with knife based attacks every day, most are unarmed and ones armed with tasers also are specially trained.
There have been cases where authorized firearms officers have used lethal force against knife attacks, however nearly all of them were the terrorist incidents most will be aware of, a spree attack on anyone they can stab and slash.
Which reminds us of the fact that wannabe Jihadis cannot get hold of firearms, though there are enough threads on that subject.
The point remains that most police in Western nations, most of which ARE armed, still tend to be able to deal with these situations without lethal force.
 
vrbarreto
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:51 am

GDB wrote:
Aesma wrote:
It's not as black and white as other cases, but it wouldn't have happened like that elsewhere. And people anywhere have knives...


Very true, our police deal with knife based attacks every day, most are unarmed and ones armed with tasers also are specially trained.
There have been cases where authorized firearms officers have used lethal force against knife attacks, however nearly all of them were the terrorist incidents most will be aware of, a spree attack on anyone they can stab and slash.
Which reminds us of the fact that wannabe Jihadis cannot get hold of firearms, though there are enough threads on that subject.
The point remains that most police in Western nations, most of which ARE armed, still tend to be able to deal with these situations without lethal force.


The last use of lethal force here was against a knifeman

https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/11/slo ... -by-police
 
art
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:53 am

If the female who was shot had a knife and appeared to be about to stab the female dressed in pink, I do not think that the police officer can be criticised for shooting her. Part of the role of police is to protect citizens from attack.

I wonder what will happen to the guy who kicked the woman who was on the ground.

PS Tasers do not always work. On viewing the slo mo video, the dead female looked to be in the act of stabbing when shot. Right decision to shoot IMO.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:12 am

GDB wrote:
Aesma wrote:
It's not as black and white as other cases, but it wouldn't have happened like that elsewhere. And people anywhere have knives...


Very true, our police deal with knife based attacks every day, most are unarmed and ones armed with tasers also are specially trained.
There have been cases where authorized firearms officers have used lethal force against knife attacks, however nearly all of them were the terrorist incidents most will be aware of, a spree attack on anyone they can stab and slash.
Which reminds us of the fact that wannabe Jihadis cannot get hold of firearms, though there are enough threads on that subject.
The point remains that most police in Western nations, most of which ARE armed, still tend to be able to deal with these situations without lethal force.


I think it would be justified in most western countries in this situation for police to have shot the girl with a knife.

NZ police killed a man last month, there was no condemnation of police for this shooting. It was justified, just as this shooting is justified. No matter how hard the media (I’m watching CNN now) are trying to frame it in another direction, the police body cam footage clearly shows the situation and the why the shooting was the only realistic action.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:34 am

vrbarreto wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
vrbarreto wrote:

I have to agree.. Completely justified shooting.. What sort of animal stabs someone and then tries to stab someone else whilst the police are in attendance.. Also one of her mates kicks the other girl who has been stabbed.. Completely nothing like the Chavin case.. Also her aunt is obviously a liar

Here she says she dropped the knife before being shot

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ng-girl-15

The bodycam footage show her trying to stab someone. Ben Crump is also a liar.


Disagree regarding the lethal force, but agree the aunt is definitely lying. What she claims is not what's in the footage.


She was in the process of trying to stab someone, potentially fatally.. What do you expect the police to do in these situations.. In any reasonable country that sort of force would be justified.. If he hadn't shot her the headline would be "White cop stands by whilst allowing stabbing of black teenager"


Of course they are expected to intervene. But your statement is a misnomer since they naturally would not simply stand by, firearm used or not. And I would criticize any media that characterized it that way if that's what had happened - c'mon. Logic, please.
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N583JB
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:41 am

art wrote:
If the female who was shot had a knife and appeared to be about to stab the female dressed in pink, I do not think that the police officer can be criticised for shooting her. Part of the role of police is to protect citizens from attack.

I wonder what will happen to the guy who kicked the woman who was on the ground.

PS Tasers do not always work. On viewing the slo mo video, the dead female looked to be in the act of stabbing when shot. Right decision to shoot IMO.


Of course, despite the video being clear as day, professional for-profit race agitator and attorney still claimed that the girl was "unarmed" when she was shot. Gotta peddle lies to get paid, right?
 
vrbarreto
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:04 am

Aaron747 wrote:
vrbarreto wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Disagree regarding the lethal force, but agree the aunt is definitely lying. What she claims is not what's in the footage.


She was in the process of trying to stab someone, potentially fatally.. What do you expect the police to do in these situations.. In any reasonable country that sort of force would be justified.. If he hadn't shot her the headline would be "White cop stands by whilst allowing stabbing of black teenager"


Of course they are expected to intervene. But your statement is a misnomer since they naturally would not simply stand by, firearm used or not. And I would criticize any media that characterized it that way if that's what had happened - c'mon. Logic, please.


Okay maybe not the media but the usual agitators who look at incidents like this to promote whatever agenda they are pushing.. Also what was he going to do apart from shoot.. He was too far away from the knifewoman to even try to tackle her before she could stab her victim. Also he had a potential assailant to his right who had just attacked her first victim.. It's just seems so strange that she started her frenzied attack with the police on the scene knowing that the police would be armed.. What goes through a mind like that to think that their actions could not have any consequences?

This video imho is one of the best advertisements for why police should wear bodycams.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:18 am

vrbarreto wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
vrbarreto wrote:

She was in the process of trying to stab someone, potentially fatally.. What do you expect the police to do in these situations.. In any reasonable country that sort of force would be justified.. If he hadn't shot her the headline would be "White cop stands by whilst allowing stabbing of black teenager"


Of course they are expected to intervene. But your statement is a misnomer since they naturally would not simply stand by, firearm used or not. And I would criticize any media that characterized it that way if that's what had happened - c'mon. Logic, please.


Okay maybe not the media but the usual agitators who look at incidents like this to promote whatever agenda they are pushing.. Also what was he going to do apart from shoot.. He was too far away from the knifewoman to even try to tackle her before she could stab her victim. Also he had a potential assailant to his right who had just attacked her first victim.. It's just seems so strange that she started her frenzied attack with the police on the scene knowing that the police would be armed.. What goes through a mind like that to think that their actions could not have any consequences?

This video imho is one of the best advertisements for why police should wear bodycams.


Agreed, bodycams are absolutely essential in today's environment. The footage from the other cops on scene will also be valuable with the additional angles available.

As I said, regarding the attacker, she seemed to be in the throes of a mental episode that was violent. Not atypical of teens in foster homes, as she was. As a volunteer years ago, I encountered many similar individuals in halfway houses and SROs in inner city San Francisco, and they can go from zero to violent in seconds with variable triggers. Their amygdalas don't function properly, in addition to whatever else is part of their psyche from the emotional and physical abuse histories typical in foster care. These kids need proper professional care in a facility that knows what it's doing, but that costs money and we're not setup for that as a society - especially for lower income people.

The agitators and baiters don't help anything, but they exist on both sides. One wants to make it all about power, the other wants to make it all about 'culture'. Way oversimplified - nobody wants to have the difficult discussions about the actual class and societal issues that underpin a lot of this. Nobody asked to be born to parents who were unfit - which happens to people of all ethnicities - and at least until 18 society needs to be doing much more to ensure young people in such circumstances have a far better shake than they do now.
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extender
Posts: 881
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:44 am

Aesma wrote:
extender wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The president nominates judges all over and representatives can't do anything about it. The president has also lots of power over the judicial branch and thus the prosecution. And of course the president is the president. So nothing like a representative.


You do realize that the judicial branch and the executive branch are independent of each other? Checks & Balances? The Senate can do something about judicial choices...


Barr choosing to prosecute or not dodgy Trump stuff didn't look very independant to me. Senators aren't representatives.


Barr was still part of the Executive Branch. Senators are still the Legislative Branch.
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