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NIKV69
Posts: 14334
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:39 pm

N583JB wrote:
art wrote:
If the female who was shot had a knife and appeared to be about to stab the female dressed in pink, I do not think that the police officer can be criticised for shooting her. Part of the role of police is to protect citizens from attack.

I wonder what will happen to the guy who kicked the woman who was on the ground.

PS Tasers do not always work. On viewing the slo mo video, the dead female looked to be in the act of stabbing when shot. Right decision to shoot IMO.


Of course, despite the video being clear as day, professional for-profit race agitator and attorney still claimed that the girl was "unarmed" when she was shot. Gotta peddle lies to get paid, right?


Don't forget there is an underlying mindset with a lot of individuals to have a society with no police. The First lady of NYC alluded to it.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politi ... story.html

It's easy to point to Chauvin who IMO is a pretty evil dude but all these other shootings that are justified get peddled as the same thing and they shouldn't..
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
kalvado
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:55 pm

art wrote:
If the female who was shot had a knife and appeared to be about to stab the female dressed in pink, I do not think that the police officer can be criticised for shooting her. Part of the role of police is to protect citizens from attack.

I wonder what will happen to the guy who kicked the woman who was on the ground.

PS Tasers do not always work. On viewing the slo mo video, the dead female looked to be in the act of stabbing when shot. Right decision to shoot IMO.


Should an officer shooting someone in such situation be considered as a cold-blooded criminal? Probably not.
Should there be a critical review of a situation, focused on other ways of handling the situation and lessons to be learnt?

Somewhat similar, but a very different situation: airline safety investigations don't focus on punitive action, but on preventing future accidents.
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:56 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
GDB wrote:

Very true, one person of courage was the 17 year old young lady who recorded this, holding her camera steady, despite being in close proximity to people she would have every reason to fear. Without this the murder would be unrecorded, the guilty free and clear, in fact the proliferation of all these phone cameras which in numerous cases have lifted the lid on too many cases of unarmed, usually compliant people being subject to the real mob rule, that of police forces with a clear sense of impunity, mostly against minorities. Backed by a wall of silence tighter than the Mafia's.

And if the not very well hidden agendas of the 'our cops do no wrong' think that is outrageous, will you want to check out just the latest examples, both in the US, of cops beating on an old (white) lady who was senile, or a 13 year old kid and you cahhn guess what race they are? Go find them.


Actually a teenage girl was fatally shot today as well by Columbus OH PD.


She was shot whilst trying to stab another girl, I don't think that this can be considered an unjustified police killing, the video shows clearly what she was doing. The slow mo 5 minutes in shows her and the knife. The man kicking the other girl in the head who was on the ground should also consider himself lucky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3rAhT2lm8A


I don't think the officer in this situation will be prosecuted. Columbus PD wasted no time in releasing the bodycam footage, so they're confident about this case.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:03 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Don't forget there is an underlying mindset with a lot of individuals to have a society with no police. The First lady of NYC alluded to it.


Why wouldn't you want a society where police are no longer required? She's not calling for the police to be shutdown, she's saying it would be utopia if there would be no need for police because there was no crime.

What do you think she's saying? Or did you just see the headline and jump to the wrong conclusion? :confused:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
bpatus297
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:08 pm

Newark727 wrote:
bigGAplane wrote:
Airontario wrote:

Yeah, well if he didn't kill a man he wouldn't be in this position.


Killing someone doesn't take away your right to a fair trial. This is why mob rule is so dangerous. Because people think that the Constitution should only apply in certain situations.


George Floyd had a right to a fair trial too, didn't he? Why aren't you more upset about him?



Umm, Chauvin was on trial convicted for his death. Pretty sure that is all about him denying Floyd's rights.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:10 pm

kalvado wrote:
Should there be a critical review of a situation, focused on other ways of handling the situation and lessons to be learnt?


Every death involving a police officer should be critically reviewed. Lessons need to be learned and procedure and processes updated where needed and officers prosecuted where actions were not deemed fully justified (just like Chauvin).
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:25 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
art wrote:
If the female who was shot had a knife and appeared to be about to stab the female dressed in pink, I do not think that the police officer can be criticised for shooting her. Part of the role of police is to protect citizens from attack.

I wonder what will happen to the guy who kicked the woman who was on the ground.

PS Tasers do not always work. On viewing the slo mo video, the dead female looked to be in the act of stabbing when shot. Right decision to shoot IMO.


Of course, despite the video being clear as day, professional for-profit race agitator and attorney still claimed that the girl was "unarmed" when she was shot. Gotta peddle lies to get paid, right?


Don't forget there is an underlying mindset with a lot of individuals to have a society with no police. The First lady of NYC alluded to it.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politi ... story.html

It's easy to point to Chauvin who IMO is a pretty evil dude but all these other shootings that are justified get peddled as the same thing and they shouldn't..


The headline is terrible, and if that's all you read, yeah I can see how that would be the conclusion. What she was actually doing was philosophically exploring the ideal for humans to reach the point in evolution where police patrols aren't needed. Her husband then added that NYC isn't going to have that anytime soon - multiple generations ahead - because police are needed for public safety. It pays to read the whole article.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
wirkey
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:32 pm

Are the other policemen on scene now going to have charges for assisting in a murder?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:41 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
...
It's easy to point to Chauvin who IMO is a pretty evil dude but all these other shootings that are justified get peddled as the same thing and they shouldn't..


So why the eagerness to save few bad apples even at the cost of entire system credibility?

Aren't these few bad apples costing more to other good cops, constant change in rules, retraining to a point they have to question themselves every second. And cities doling out millions of collected taxes in payoffs to victims.

Why the eagerness to use any technicality to save him. So, he and others can continue to do what they were doing.

Believing in police is the foundation of any civilized society, and every citizen should.
All posts are just opinions.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:47 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

So why the eagerness to save few bad apples even at the cost of entire system credibility?

Why the eagerness to use any technicality to save him. So, he and others can continue to do what they were doing.
.


Where did I say any of this? Please don't put words in my mouth. I said we shouldn't take justified shootings and make them the same as Chauvin. Please read my posts. I think bad cops should be held accountable.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
N583JB
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:52 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
...
It's easy to point to Chauvin who IMO is a pretty evil dude but all these other shootings that are justified get peddled as the same thing and they shouldn't..


So why the eagerness to save few bad apples even at the cost of entire system credibility?

Aren't these few bad apples costing more to other good cops, constant change in rules, retraining to a point they have to question themselves every second. And cities doling out millions of collected taxes in payoffs to victims.

Why the eagerness to use any technicality to save him. So, he and others can continue to do what they were doing.

Believing in police is the foundation of any civilized society, and every citizen should.


Chauvin is entitled to a defense, and using any technicality to save him is his attorney's job. For what it is worth, multiple officers and even Chauvin's police chief testified against him during the trial.

Chauvin faced justice, but just because Chauvin murdered someone doesn't mean that every other police shooting is murder. We've seen the harm that jumping to conclusions and pushing false narratives can cause- officers and civilians murdered, widespread looting and vandalism, etc. Bad cops need to be dealt with, but so do bad narratives.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:06 pm

N583JB wrote:
Chauvin is entitled to a defense, and using any technicality to save him is his attorney's job. For what it is worth, multiple officers and even Chauvin's police chief testified against him during the trial.

Chauvin faced justice, but just because Chauvin murdered someone doesn't mean that every other police shooting is murder. We've seen the harm that jumping to conclusions and pushing false narratives can cause- officers and civilians murdered, widespread looting and vandalism, etc. Bad cops need to be dealt with, but so do bad narratives.


This case is an exception.

Any competent attorney can get any murderer out on any technicality. But most previous police shooting cases show gaming the system because they are within, that is the source of mistrust.

Trying to get Chauvin out because Maxine Waters said something is gasping at straws.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:25 pm

N583JB wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
...
It's easy to point to Chauvin who IMO is a pretty evil dude but all these other shootings that are justified get peddled as the same thing and they shouldn't..


So why the eagerness to save few bad apples even at the cost of entire system credibility?

Aren't these few bad apples costing more to other good cops, constant change in rules, retraining to a point they have to question themselves every second. And cities doling out millions of collected taxes in payoffs to victims.

Why the eagerness to use any technicality to save him. So, he and others can continue to do what they were doing.

Believing in police is the foundation of any civilized society, and every citizen should.


Chauvin is entitled to a defense, and using any technicality to save him is his attorney's job. For what it is worth, multiple officers and even Chauvin's police chief testified against him during the trial.

Chauvin faced justice, but just because Chauvin murdered someone doesn't mean that every other police shooting is murder. We've seen the harm that jumping to conclusions and pushing false narratives can cause- officers and civilians murdered, widespread looting and vandalism, etc. Bad cops need to be dealt with, but so do bad narratives.


That’s what’s happening every time a police officer shoots a black person it becomes international news and the cop is called a murder. On CNN today it was painfully obvious the anchors wanted to throw this cop under the bus but the video evidence was clearly showing he did the right thing, his quick thinking potentially saved the other girls life.

How long will it be before police officers refuse to go to callouts in black neighbourhoods?
 
trueblew
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:46 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
N583JB wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

So why the eagerness to save few bad apples even at the cost of entire system credibility?

Aren't these few bad apples costing more to other good cops, constant change in rules, retraining to a point they have to question themselves every second. And cities doling out millions of collected taxes in payoffs to victims.

Why the eagerness to use any technicality to save him. So, he and others can continue to do what they were doing.

Believing in police is the foundation of any civilized society, and every citizen should.


Chauvin is entitled to a defense, and using any technicality to save him is his attorney's job. For what it is worth, multiple officers and even Chauvin's police chief testified against him during the trial.

Chauvin faced justice, but just because Chauvin murdered someone doesn't mean that every other police shooting is murder. We've seen the harm that jumping to conclusions and pushing false narratives can cause- officers and civilians murdered, widespread looting and vandalism, etc. Bad cops need to be dealt with, but so do bad narratives.


That’s what’s happening every time a police officer shoots a black person it becomes international news and the cop is called a murder. On CNN today it was painfully obvious the anchors wanted to throw this cop under the bus but the video evidence was clearly showing he did the right thing, his quick thinking potentially saved the other girls life.

How long will it be before police officers refuse to go to callouts in black neighbourhoods?


This, 100%. It's obvious this cop is an anti-black racist because he shot a black girl.... to prevent her from killing another black girl. :confused:

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. So I foresee more black lives being lost as police pull back from black neighborhoods. The race agitators will get what they want, I guess?
 
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DL717
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:08 pm

There is a general problem in this country of non-compliance with police requests which lead to stuff like this. How many of these incidences would not occur if people simply complied with police requests? Don't want cops to bother you? Stop committing crimes. Its that simple. Was Chauvin a bad cop? Probably. Did he get what he had coming? Yes. Could the whole situation been avoided by both Chauvin and/or Floyds actions? Also yes.

People are too quick to blame cops for responding to a criminal. How about we focus on stopping crime from being a way of life for some people. This starts in the home.

People shot by police:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 ... e-by-race/

Police shot by people:

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press ... ne-of-duty

And people wonder why cops are under stress when they stop someone which leads to most of this.
Last edited by DL717 on Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
luckyone
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:15 pm

DL717 wrote:
There is a general problem in this country of non-compliance with police requests which lead to stuff like this. How many of these incidences would not occur if people simply complied with police requests? Don't want cops to bother you? Stop committing crimes. Its that simple. Was Chauvin a bad cop? Probably. Did he get what he had coming? Yes. Could the whole situation been avoided by both Chauvin and/or Floyds actions? Also yes.

People are too quick to blame cops for responding to a criminal. How about we focus on stopping crime from being a way of life for some people. This starts in the home.

Okay, let's go at it from this angle. Lauren Boebert, a Representative from Colorado was placed under arrest (several times). During one of these arrests, in 2015, she reportedly resisted arrest. Should the cops have stomped on her neck until she stopped breathing?

"While she was being handcuffed for disorderly conduct, Boebert tried to twist away from police, according to deputies’ reports. She allegedly shouted that her arrest was unconstitutional, that “she had friends at Fox News and that the arrest would be national news.” It did not become national news."
https://www.denverpost.com/2020/08/27/l ... tsch-bush/
 
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DL717
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:19 pm

luckyone wrote:
DL717 wrote:
There is a general problem in this country of non-compliance with police requests which lead to stuff like this. How many of these incidences would not occur if people simply complied with police requests? Don't want cops to bother you? Stop committing crimes. Its that simple. Was Chauvin a bad cop? Probably. Did he get what he had coming? Yes. Could the whole situation been avoided by both Chauvin and/or Floyds actions? Also yes.

People are too quick to blame cops for responding to a criminal. How about we focus on stopping crime from being a way of life for some people. This starts in the home.

Okay, let's go at it from this angle. Lauren Boebert, a Representative from Colorado was placed under arrest (several times). During one of these arrests she reportedly resisted arrest. Should the cops have stomped on her neck until she stopped breathing?

"While she was being handcuffed for disorderly conduct, Boebert tried to twist away from police, according to deputies’ reports. She allegedly shouted that her arrest was unconstitutional, that “she had friends at Fox News and that the arrest would be national news.” It did not become national news."
https://www.denverpost.com/2020/08/27/l ... tsch-bush/


She should be charged. They deserve a record when they disobey the law. She wasn't charged with a crime, so there was no record prompting a more aggressive response from the officers. Don't you get it? The level of response is driven by the screening of the criminal.
Last edited by DL717 on Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
luckyone
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:21 pm

DL717 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
DL717 wrote:
There is a general problem in this country of non-compliance with police requests which lead to stuff like this. How many of these incidences would not occur if people simply complied with police requests? Don't want cops to bother you? Stop committing crimes. Its that simple. Was Chauvin a bad cop? Probably. Did he get what he had coming? Yes. Could the whole situation been avoided by both Chauvin and/or Floyds actions? Also yes.

People are too quick to blame cops for responding to a criminal. How about we focus on stopping crime from being a way of life for some people. This starts in the home.

Okay, let's go at it from this angle. Lauren Boebert, a Representative from Colorado was placed under arrest (several times). During one of these arrests she reportedly resisted arrest. Should the cops have stomped on her neck until she stopped breathing?

"While she was being handcuffed for disorderly conduct, Boebert tried to twist away from police, according to deputies’ reports. She allegedly shouted that her arrest was unconstitutional, that “she had friends at Fox News and that the arrest would be national news.” It did not become national news."
https://www.denverpost.com/2020/08/27/l ... tsch-bush/


She should be charged with resisting arrest. End of discussion. She wasn't, so there was no record prompting a more aggressive response from the officers. Don't you get it? The level of response is driven by the screening of the criminal.

Yes Einstein I get it. I'm not saying George Floyd should not have been arrested. You clearly overlook your own statements in the effect that she did not comply with an order, but her behavior was not met with the same response that resulted in George Floyd's death. I restrain people far more violent and intoxicated on substances than George Floyd every day. And we do it without stepping on their necks until they can't breathe.
 
bigGAplane
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:23 pm

luckyone wrote:
DL717 wrote:
There is a general problem in this country of non-compliance with police requests which lead to stuff like this. How many of these incidences would not occur if people simply complied with police requests? Don't want cops to bother you? Stop committing crimes. Its that simple. Was Chauvin a bad cop? Probably. Did he get what he had coming? Yes. Could the whole situation been avoided by both Chauvin and/or Floyds actions? Also yes.

People are too quick to blame cops for responding to a criminal. How about we focus on stopping crime from being a way of life for some people. This starts in the home.

Okay, let's go at it from this angle. Lauren Boebert, a Representative from Colorado was placed under arrest (several times). During one of these arrests, in 2015, she reportedly resisted arrest. Should the cops have stomped on her neck until she stopped breathing?

"While she was being handcuffed for disorderly conduct, Boebert tried to twist away from police, according to deputies’ reports. She allegedly shouted that her arrest was unconstitutional, that “she had friends at Fox News and that the arrest would be national news.” It did not become national news."
https://www.denverpost.com/2020/08/27/l ... tsch-bush/


There you again with the same jargon. I don't think you'll find a single person that will say what Chauvin did was justified. Not one.

Use of force is generally proportional to the "threat". An officer will generally use more force on a subject based on their criminal history, size, and perceived threat.
 
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DL717
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:24 pm

luckyone wrote:
DL717 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Okay, let's go at it from this angle. Lauren Boebert, a Representative from Colorado was placed under arrest (several times). During one of these arrests she reportedly resisted arrest. Should the cops have stomped on her neck until she stopped breathing?

"While she was being handcuffed for disorderly conduct, Boebert tried to twist away from police, according to deputies’ reports. She allegedly shouted that her arrest was unconstitutional, that “she had friends at Fox News and that the arrest would be national news.” It did not become national news."
https://www.denverpost.com/2020/08/27/l ... tsch-bush/


She should be charged with resisting arrest. End of discussion. She wasn't, so there was no record prompting a more aggressive response from the officers. Don't you get it? The level of response is driven by the screening of the criminal.

Yes Einstein I get it. I'm not saying George Floyd should not have been arrested. You clearly overlook your own statements in the effect that she did not comply with an order, but her behavior was not met with the same response that resulted in George Floyd's death. I restrain people far more violent and intoxicated on substances than George Floyd every day. And we do it without stepping on their necks until they can't breathe.


Good for you. And you know damn well your level of response is triggered by the suspects actions and history. Like I said, Chauvin was probably a bad cop. The situation still could have been avoided with compliance, but no one wants to talk about that. They just want to blame cops for everything.

1500 cops a year are shot, and people wonder why cops are jacked up on adrenaline when they make a stop resulting in these kinds of incidents.
Last edited by DL717 on Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
luckyone
Posts: 3971
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:27 pm

bigGAplane wrote:
luckyone wrote:
DL717 wrote:
There is a general problem in this country of non-compliance with police requests which lead to stuff like this. How many of these incidences would not occur if people simply complied with police requests? Don't want cops to bother you? Stop committing crimes. Its that simple. Was Chauvin a bad cop? Probably. Did he get what he had coming? Yes. Could the whole situation been avoided by both Chauvin and/or Floyds actions? Also yes.

People are too quick to blame cops for responding to a criminal. How about we focus on stopping crime from being a way of life for some people. This starts in the home.

Okay, let's go at it from this angle. Lauren Boebert, a Representative from Colorado was placed under arrest (several times). During one of these arrests, in 2015, she reportedly resisted arrest. Should the cops have stomped on her neck until she stopped breathing?

"While she was being handcuffed for disorderly conduct, Boebert tried to twist away from police, according to deputies’ reports. She allegedly shouted that her arrest was unconstitutional, that “she had friends at Fox News and that the arrest would be national news.” It did not become national news."
https://www.denverpost.com/2020/08/27/l ... tsch-bush/


There you again with the same jargon. I don't think you'll find a single person that will say what Chauvin did was justified. Not one.

Then sorry for being dense...your lengthy diatribes are idiotic at worst and trollish at best if you agree than Chauvin's behavior was not justified.
 
luckyone
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:28 pm

DL717 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
DL717 wrote:

She should be charged with resisting arrest. End of discussion. She wasn't, so there was no record prompting a more aggressive response from the officers. Don't you get it? The level of response is driven by the screening of the criminal.

Yes Einstein I get it. I'm not saying George Floyd should not have been arrested. You clearly overlook your own statements in the effect that she did not comply with an order, but her behavior was not met with the same response that resulted in George Floyd's death. I restrain people far more violent and intoxicated on substances than George Floyd every day. And we do it without stepping on their necks until they can't breathe.


Good for you. And you know damn well your level of response is triggered by the suspects actions and history. Like I said, Chauvin was probably a bad cop. The situation still could have been avoided with compliance, but no one wants to talk about that. They just want to blame cops for everything.

1500 cops a year are shot, and people wonder why cops are jacked up on adrenaline when they make a stop of a known suspect.

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Same logic applies here. Two wrongs don't make a right. Quit whining about another legitimate story because it appears to offend your sensibilities. My brother's a cop, so sing that song somewhere else. Injustice is not a zero sum game.
 
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DL717
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:31 pm

luckyone wrote:
DL717 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Yes Einstein I get it. I'm not saying George Floyd should not have been arrested. You clearly overlook your own statements in the effect that she did not comply with an order, but her behavior was not met with the same response that resulted in George Floyd's death. I restrain people far more violent and intoxicated on substances than George Floyd every day. And we do it without stepping on their necks until they can't breathe.


Good for you. And you know damn well your level of response is triggered by the suspects actions and history. Like I said, Chauvin was probably a bad cop. The situation still could have been avoided with compliance, but no one wants to talk about that. They just want to blame cops for everything.

1500 cops a year are shot, and people wonder why cops are jacked up on adrenaline when they make a stop of a known suspect.

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Same logic applies here. Two wrongs don't make a right. Quit whining about another legitimate story because it appears to offend your sensibilities. My brother's a cop, so sing that song somewhere else. Injustice is not a zero sum game.


Who said Chauvins actions were just? If your brother is a cop, then you know damn well why things like this happen.
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
luckyone
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:33 pm

DL717 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Good for you. And you know damn well your level of response is triggered by the suspects actions and history. Like I said, Chauvin was probably a bad cop. The situation still could have been avoided with compliance, but no one wants to talk about that. They just want to blame cops for everything.

1500 cops a year are shot, and people wonder why cops are jacked up on adrenaline when they make a stop of a known suspect.

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Same logic applies here. Two wrongs don't make a right. Quit whining about another legitimate story because it appears to offend your sensibilities. My brother's a cop, so sing that song somewhere else. Injustice is not a zero sum game.


Who said Chauvins actions were just? If you're a cop as you appear to imply, then you know damn well why things like this happen.

Plenty of people have justified Chauvin's actions, and you yourself don't directly state it but your statements suggest that the outcome was unavoidable -- it was not. When did I say I was a cop or even imply? I even very clearly stated what I am earlier in the thread--I'm a physician. And we restrain people far more violent than George Floyd.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:38 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Where did I say any of this? Please don't put words in my mouth.


Didn't you just put words in someone else's mouth in your previous post?
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DL717
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:42 pm

luckyone wrote:
DL717 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Same logic applies here. Two wrongs don't make a right. Quit whining about another legitimate story because it appears to offend your sensibilities. My brother's a cop, so sing that song somewhere else. Injustice is not a zero sum game.


Who said Chauvins actions were just? If you're a cop as you appear to imply, then you know damn well why things like this happen.

Plenty of people have justified Chauvin's actions, and you yourself don't directly state it but your statements suggest that the outcome was unavoidable -- it was not. When did I say I was a cop or even imply? I even very clearly stated what I am earlier in the thread--I'm a physician. And we restrain people far more violent than George Floyd.


Maybe cops should carry sedatives.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:42 pm

DL717 wrote:
...
1500 cops a year are shot, and people wonder why cops are jacked up on adrenaline when they make a stop resulting in these kinds of incidents.


One has to question, it is necessary to lose one life, $2 Billion property damage and a ex-cop getting 25-40 years on a suspected $20 counterfeit.
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DL717
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:49 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
DL717 wrote:
...
1500 cops a year are shot, and people wonder why cops are jacked up on adrenaline when they make a stop resulting in these kinds of incidents.


One has to question, it is necessary to lose one life, $2 Billion property damage and a ex-cop getting 25-40 years on a suspected $20 counterfeit.


No, one doesn't have to lose one's life. One doesn't have to have a criminal record and resist arrest. One does not need to generate $2 billion in property damage either. It all starts with the individual. No personal accountability and this crap will simply continue unabated.
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
luckyone
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:54 pm

DL717 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Who said Chauvins actions were just? If you're a cop as you appear to imply, then you know damn well why things like this happen.

Plenty of people have justified Chauvin's actions, and you yourself don't directly state it but your statements suggest that the outcome was unavoidable -- it was not. When did I say I was a cop or even imply? I even very clearly stated what I am earlier in the thread--I'm a physician. And we restrain people far more violent than George Floyd.


Maybe cops should carry sedatives.

On that we agree.
 
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:14 pm

Feel free to start a separate thread to discuss other files, but please keep this thread on topic.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:44 pm

DL717 wrote:

No, one doesn't have to lose one's life. One doesn't have to have a criminal record and resist arrest.


In a sense, this is just as wishy washy and idealistic as Mayor DeBlasio's screed about a utopia where people behave so well we don't need police. Until we repair our society, it will never be as simple as 'follow the law and comply with police'. As I noted in the last page of this thread, a lot of behaviors are influenced by terrible parenting, psychological effects of abuse and abandonment, and so on. Very few of those people get the treatment they need as teens to become functioning and law abiding adults. Drug abuse and/or nihilism easily follow when they don't. Our society simply isn't set up to provide quality facilities where young people can go to be looked after well until they can function again - ESPECIALLY for low income people of any ethnicity. As you noted in another thread, there should be a blank check from government for mental health services. We should be doing so until at least 18 - it's not a young person's fault they were born to parents who shouldn't have had children or blatantly mistreated them.
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Kiwirob
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:48 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
DL717 wrote:
...
1500 cops a year are shot, and people wonder why cops are jacked up on adrenaline when they make a stop resulting in these kinds of incidents.


One has to question, it is necessary to lose one life, $2 Billion property damage and a ex-cop getting 25-40 years on a suspected $20 counterfeit.


Or it could have gone like Tony Timpa, no property damage, no cops getting 25-40 years, the police and the prosecutors covered it up because they knew the media don’t care about cops killing anyone who isn’t black.
 
bigGAplane
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:54 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

No, one doesn't have to lose one's life. One doesn't have to have a criminal record and resist arrest.


In a sense, this is just as wishy washy and idealistic as Mayor DeBlasio's screed about a utopia where people behave so well we don't need police. Until we repair our society, it will never be as simple as 'follow the law and comply with police'. As I noted in the last page of this thread, a lot of behaviors are influenced by terrible parenting, psychological effects of abuse and abandonment, and so on. Very few of those people get the treatment they need as teens to become functioning and law abiding adults. Drug abuse and/or nihilism easily follow when they don't. Our society simply isn't set up to provide quality facilities where young people can go to be looked after well until they can function again - ESPECIALLY for low income people of any ethnicity. As you noted in another thread, there should be a blank check from government for mental health services. We should be doing so until at least 18 - it's not a young person's fault they were born to parents who shouldn't have had children or blatantly mistreated them.


In 2019 the police killed about 10-12 unarmed black individuals. No, that doesn't mean they weren't justified. It just means unarmed.

Is it really as big of an issue as the media and BLM wants you to believe? These are groups and organizations that make millions when there's riots and division.
 
bigGAplane
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:00 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
DL717 wrote:
...
1500 cops a year are shot, and people wonder why cops are jacked up on adrenaline when they make a stop resulting in these kinds of incidents.


One has to question, it is necessary to lose one life, $2 Billion property damage and a ex-cop getting 25-40 years on a suspected $20 counterfeit.


Or it could have gone like Tony Timpa, no property damage, no cops getting 25-40 years, the police and the prosecutors covered it up because they knew the media don’t care about cops killing anyone who isn’t black.


They used to say sex sells. No, it's all about claiming racism even when it isn't the case because well...it sells.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:00 pm

bigGAplane wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

No, one doesn't have to lose one's life. One doesn't have to have a criminal record and resist arrest.


In a sense, this is just as wishy washy and idealistic as Mayor DeBlasio's screed about a utopia where people behave so well we don't need police. Until we repair our society, it will never be as simple as 'follow the law and comply with police'. As I noted in the last page of this thread, a lot of behaviors are influenced by terrible parenting, psychological effects of abuse and abandonment, and so on. Very few of those people get the treatment they need as teens to become functioning and law abiding adults. Drug abuse and/or nihilism easily follow when they don't. Our society simply isn't set up to provide quality facilities where young people can go to be looked after well until they can function again - ESPECIALLY for low income people of any ethnicity. As you noted in another thread, there should be a blank check from government for mental health services. We should be doing so until at least 18 - it's not a young person's fault they were born to parents who shouldn't have had children or blatantly mistreated them.


In 2019 the police killed about 10-12 unarmed black individuals. No, that doesn't mean they weren't justified. It just means unarmed.

Is it really as big of an issue as the media and BLM wants you to believe? These are groups and organizations that make millions when there's riots and division.


Your comment has literally nothing to do with what was posted. 100% non sequitur.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
N583JB
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:01 pm

bigGAplane wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

No, one doesn't have to lose one's life. One doesn't have to have a criminal record and resist arrest.


In a sense, this is just as wishy washy and idealistic as Mayor DeBlasio's screed about a utopia where people behave so well we don't need police. Until we repair our society, it will never be as simple as 'follow the law and comply with police'. As I noted in the last page of this thread, a lot of behaviors are influenced by terrible parenting, psychological effects of abuse and abandonment, and so on. Very few of those people get the treatment they need as teens to become functioning and law abiding adults. Drug abuse and/or nihilism easily follow when they don't. Our society simply isn't set up to provide quality facilities where young people can go to be looked after well until they can function again - ESPECIALLY for low income people of any ethnicity. As you noted in another thread, there should be a blank check from government for mental health services. We should be doing so until at least 18 - it's not a young person's fault they were born to parents who shouldn't have had children or blatantly mistreated them.


In 2019 the police killed about 10-12 unarmed black individuals. No, that doesn't mean they weren't justified. It just means unarmed.

Is it really as big of an issue as the media and BLM wants you to believe? These are groups and organizations that make millions when there's riots and division.


It isn't nearly as big of an issue as it is made out to be. That's why for years we've been fed blatantly false narratives until they are debunked and then new ones emerge. If the issue were that serious, BLM and others wouldn't have to peddle absolute lies in order to stay relevant.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:02 pm

bigGAplane wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

One has to question, it is necessary to lose one life, $2 Billion property damage and a ex-cop getting 25-40 years on a suspected $20 counterfeit.


Or it could have gone like Tony Timpa, no property damage, no cops getting 25-40 years, the police and the prosecutors covered it up because they knew the media don’t care about cops killing anyone who isn’t black.


They used to say sex sells. No, it's all about claiming racism even when it isn't the case because well...it sells.


Race agitators don't come close to sex. Sex is a $100+ billion global industry, and that's just the stuff people know about in the mainstream.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:06 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
DL717 wrote:
...
1500 cops a year are shot, and people wonder why cops are jacked up on adrenaline when they make a stop resulting in these kinds of incidents.


One has to question, it is necessary to lose one life, $2 Billion property damage and a ex-cop getting 25-40 years on a suspected $20 counterfeit.


Or it could have gone like Tony Timpa, no property damage, no cops getting 25-40 years, the police and the prosecutors covered it up because they knew the media don’t care about cops killing anyone who isn’t black.


That is horrible to watch man. That paramedic instantly knew he was dead. I hope they do time.

Who the ... put this kneeling technique in the training manual.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:26 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
DL717 wrote:
...
1500 cops a year are shot, and people wonder why cops are jacked up on adrenaline when they make a stop resulting in these kinds of incidents.


One has to question, it is necessary to lose one life, $2 Billion property damage and a ex-cop getting 25-40 years on a suspected $20 counterfeit.


Or it could have gone like Tony Timpa, no property damage, no cops getting 25-40 years, the police and the prosecutors covered it up because they knew the media don’t care about cops killing anyone who isn’t black.


Begs the question: HTF do sworn local officials just decide to cover shit up and everyone’s hunky dory? Criminal conspiracy on top of the wrongful death.
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seb146
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:02 pm

One unarmed Black man gets justice. That does not mean everything is fixed. We still have a long way to go.
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NIKV69
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:14 pm

scbriml wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Don't forget there is an underlying mindset with a lot of individuals to have a society with no police. The First lady of NYC alluded to it.


Why wouldn't you want a society where police are no longer required? She's not calling for the police to be shutdown, she's saying it would be utopia if there would be no need for police because there was no crime.

What do you think she's saying? Or did you just see the headline and jump to the wrong conclusion? :confused:


That is not what she is saying or she would have said it. Come on. Really?
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scbriml
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:37 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Don't forget there is an underlying mindset with a lot of individuals to have a society with no police. The First lady of NYC alluded to it.


Why wouldn't you want a society where police are no longer required? She's not calling for the police to be shutdown, she's saying it would be utopia if there would be no need for police because there was no crime.

What do you think she's saying? Or did you just see the headline and jump to the wrong conclusion? :confused:


That is not what she is saying or she would have said it. Come on. Really?


It’s exactly what she’s saying - a society with no crime would require no police. It would be a utopia. She’s obviously being way too subtle about it for you. What do you think she’s saying and why wouldn’t you want such a society?
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:04 pm

scbriml wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
scbriml wrote:

Why wouldn't you want a society where police are no longer required? She's not calling for the police to be shutdown, she's saying it would be utopia if there would be no need for police because there was no crime.

What do you think she's saying? Or did you just see the headline and jump to the wrong conclusion? :confused:


That is not what she is saying or she would have said it. Come on. Really?


It’s exactly what she’s saying - a society with no crime would require no police. It would be a utopia. She’s obviously being way too subtle about it for you. What do you think she’s saying and why wouldn’t you want such a society?

A crimeless society can only be achieved, by either decriminalizing all the crimes, or by transforming nature of humanity into one that wouldn't commit crime. Either of them are bad and dystopian.
Human have greed and lust and many other desire in nature. When put into good use, these desire can help grow and develop our society, but if rules are being stepped over, then they endanger others and become crime. Since these rules are not intrinsic to individuals, it's impossible to make everyone follow all the rules 100% time and thus crime will always exists. To make human follow all the rules 100% time require modifying the nature of human in a way that I don't think the product can still be consider as human. The alternative is to decriminalize all the bad acts but that would result in anarchy and is bad to the entire society.
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NYCVIE
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:58 pm

DL717 wrote:
There is a general problem in this country of non-compliance with police requests which lead to stuff like this. How many of these incidences would not occur if people simply complied with police requests? Don't want cops to bother you? Stop committing crimes. Its that simple. Was Chauvin a bad cop? Probably. Did he get what he had coming? Yes. Could the whole situation been avoided by both Chauvin and/or Floyds actions? Also yes.

People are too quick to blame cops for responding to a criminal. How about we focus on stopping crime from being a way of life for some people. This starts in the home.


I think the issue is that non-compliance is not a crime that is punishable by death. At worst resisting arrest carries a couple of months to a year in prison and most likely it results in probation. So we can't say if you comply you don't die because if you don't comply you also shouldn't die. Police officers should not have the authority or excusal to kill someone for resisting arrest, period.

If you get pulled over for speeding and you're killed or seriously injured during the stop are we to say well damn, maybe if the criminal weren't speeding they would have been fine? Or should we hold centralized law enforcement agencies accountable for their actions?

DL717 wrote:
People shot by police:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 ... e-by-race/

Police shot by people:

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press ... ne-of-duty

And people wonder why cops are under stress when they stop someone which leads to most of this.


If a bunch of Greyhound buses were to start crashing, there would be serious investigations into that, right? Because we would expect that Greyhound drivers should have the experience and knowledge on how to operate buses and we'd expect that Greyhound hold their drivers to a high safety standard given they're responsible for many lives. So wouldn't it be ridiculous if we said well hey far far more people are killed in regular car crashes so why all the scrutiny?
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:31 am

wirkey wrote:
Are the other policemen on scene now going to have charges for assisting in a murder?


No, this is Ohio and not Minn., with Keith Ellison as the "Progressive" AG at the helm.
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:20 am

c933103 wrote:
Either of them are bad and dystopian.


That's your opinion, but given the discussion was purely theoretical, it's not anything that any of us have to worry about. I was simply correcting NIKV69's interpretation of the headline.
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c933103
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:27 am

scbriml wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Either of them are bad and dystopian.


That's your opinion, but given the discussion was purely theoretical, it's not anything that any of us have to worry about. I was simply correcting NIKV69's interpretation of the headline.

You asked, "why wouldn’t you want such a society?", I provided my version of answer
It doesn't matter the discussion was theoretical because these are also what could theoretically be changed to achieve a crimeless society.
As some once said, all utopia are dystopian in nature. Thus, when someone is trying to sell you something as an utopia, one need to pay extra attention to see why it is a bad idea.
Because our society depends on balancing the interest of different parties to success, one that can be said as utopia is theoretically impossible to achieve, as it would mean the society moved fully toward one side's interest and sacrificing everything else
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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AirframeAS
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:43 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
AirframeAS wrote:
It is quite apparent to me that Chauvin showed absolutely no remorse during and after the verdict was read. He seemed to simply not care, nor does he understand the seriousness of what he did.


I think he looked shocked when the guilty verdict was read. His eyes were darting around uncontrollably.


I disagree. Just because you have eyes moving around like he did in this video does not mean he is freaking out. His eyes moving the way it was seems like a normal response to me. People react differently to things, yes, but his body language told me that he didn't care. I am not surprised at his reaction.

Video here. See for yourself. He was basically motionless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZqvslc_ZMc
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Virtual737
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:51 am

Kiwirob wrote:
On CNN today it was painfully obvious the anchors wanted to throw this cop under the bus


Is there an online video you can link where I can see that segment? I'm in no way questioning your opinion and I totally get the left bias of CNN, but I'd love to see it. My overall experience with CNN has been that they at least try to give an honest angle to a story before it gets passed to the "will this story appeal to our base, make the right look even more radical and / or make us money before we ever consider airing it" department.
 
af773atmsp
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:27 pm

AirframeAS wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:
AirframeAS wrote:
It is quite apparent to me that Chauvin showed absolutely no remorse during and after the verdict was read. He seemed to simply not care, nor does he understand the seriousness of what he did.


I think he looked shocked when the guilty verdict was read. His eyes were darting around uncontrollably.


I disagree. Just because you have eyes moving around like he did in this video does not mean he is freaking out. His eyes moving the way it was seems like a normal response to me. People react differently to things, yes, but his body language told me that he didn't care. I am not surprised at his reaction.

Video here. See for yourself. He was basically motionless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZqvslc_ZMc


At the 4:30 mark, I wonder what that guy was saying to Chauvin.
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