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CitizenJustin wrote:Kiwirob wrote:Whatever hes convicted of people won't be happy, the city will probably burn, rinse and repeat.
“The city”
You’re so dramatic. At most a few crappy buildings on a few blocks. You act as if the entire city will be burned to the ground.
CitizenJustin wrote:Kiwirob wrote:Whatever hes convicted of people won't be happy, the city will probably burn, rinse and repeat.
“The city”
You’re so dramatic. At most a few crappy buildings on a few blocks. You act as if the entire city will be burned to the ground.
af773atmsp wrote:CitizenJustin wrote:Kiwirob wrote:Whatever hes convicted of people won't be happy, the city will probably burn, rinse and repeat.
“The city”
You’re so dramatic. At most a few crappy buildings on a few blocks. You act as if the entire city will be burned to the ground.
I'm sure the people who own those "few crappy buildings" would appreciate that comment (sarcasm very much intended). Keep in mind one of the buildings that burned down last summer was under construction and going to be affordable apartments.
N583JB wrote:af773atmsp wrote:CitizenJustin wrote:
“The city”
You’re so dramatic. At most a few crappy buildings on a few blocks. You act as if the entire city will be burned to the ground.
I'm sure the people who own those "few crappy buildings" would appreciate that comment (sarcasm very much intended). Keep in mind one of the buildings that burned down last summer was under construction and going to be affordable apartments.
Yup, not to mention the estimated $1-2 billion in property damage, 25 people killed, and over 2,000 police officers wounded across the United States during the riots last summer.
seb146 wrote:N583JB wrote:af773atmsp wrote:
I'm sure the people who own those "few crappy buildings" would appreciate that comment (sarcasm very much intended). Keep in mind one of the buildings that burned down last summer was under construction and going to be affordable apartments.
Yup, not to mention the estimated $1-2 billion in property damage, 25 people killed, and over 2,000 police officers wounded across the United States during the riots last summer.
So maybe instead of blaming the victim, we should hold cops to at least the same standards we hold civilians? Or even higher? Like punishing cops who kill unarmed civilians who were simply living their lives?
N583JB wrote:seb146 wrote:N583JB wrote:
Yup, not to mention the estimated $1-2 billion in property damage, 25 people killed, and over 2,000 police officers wounded across the United States during the riots last summer.
So maybe instead of blaming the victim, we should hold cops to at least the same standards we hold civilians? Or even higher? Like punishing cops who kill unarmed civilians who were simply living their lives?
Sure, when that happens-which is extraordinarily rarely.
seb146 wrote:N583JB wrote:seb146 wrote:
So maybe instead of blaming the victim, we should hold cops to at least the same standards we hold civilians? Or even higher? Like punishing cops who kill unarmed civilians who were simply living their lives?
Sure, when that happens-which is extraordinarily rarely.
Somebody somewhere else in cyberspace made an interesting point:
Take a man about the same age with no addiction issues and no heart issues and kneel on his neck for 10 minutes and see what happens to him just so we have something to compare. Yes, it is disgusting but it might also stop some people from blaming the victim.
seb146 wrote:N583JB wrote:seb146 wrote:
So maybe instead of blaming the victim, we should hold cops to at least the same standards we hold civilians? Or even higher? Like punishing cops who kill unarmed civilians who were simply living their lives?
Sure, when that happens-which is extraordinarily rarely.
Somebody somewhere else in cyberspace made an interesting point:
Take a man about the same age with no addiction issues and no heart issues and kneel on his neck for 10 minutes and see what happens to him just so we have something to compare. Yes, it is disgusting but it might also stop some people from blaming the victim.
Senior Special Agent James Reyerson was shown a clip from Minneapolis Police body-camera footage of Floyd saying something while handcuffed and in a prone position on the ground.
"Did it appear that Mr. Floyd said, 'I ate too many drugs?" defense attorney Eric Nelson asked Reyerson.
"Yes, it did," Reyerson said.
After a short break, the prosecution played for Reyerson a longer clip of the video that provided the lead up to that comment.
"Having heard it in context, are you able to tell what Mr. Floyd is saying there?" prosecutor Matthew Frank asked.
"Yes, I believe Mr. Floyd was saying, 'I ain't do no drugs," Reyerson replied.
The LAPD use-of-force expert testified Wednesday that Chauvin used "deadly force" by holding his knee on Floyd's neck and back for more than 9 minutes in a situation where no force was necessary.
LAPD Sgt. Jody Stiger, in his second day on the stand, said the pressure of Chauvin's body weight on the back of Floyd's neck could have caused potentially lethal "positional asphyxia."
"He was in the prone position. He was not resisting. He was handcuffed. He was not attempting to evade. He was not attempting to resist," Stiger said of Floyd. "And the pressure ... that was being caused by the body weight could cause positional asphyxia which could cause de
In addition to fentanyl and methamphetamine, the toxicology report from the autopsy showed that Floyd also had cannabinoids in his system when he died.
Link
extender wrote:"Trained," being the operative word. Was Chauvin properly trained? What does his training records indicate?
Link
Even if Floyd said he didn't do drugs:In addition to fentanyl and methamphetamine, the toxicology report from the autopsy showed that Floyd also had cannabinoids in his system when he died.
Link
extender wrote:Who cares? That is for a jury to decide. I sure don't know if the drugs in his system contributed to his physical condition's decline either; but it is for a jury to decide. Chauvin may be found guilty, of a lesser charge, but my opinion is it won't be for murder.
bennett123 wrote:I was referring to George Floyd's behavior.
He was clearly non co operative, and at the same time seemed, as I said borderline hysterical.
extender wrote:Who cares? That is for a jury to decide. I sure don't know if the drugs in his system contributed to his physical condition's decline either; but it is for a jury to decide. Chauvin may be found guilty, of a lesser charge, but my opinion is it won't be for murder.
he expert said the restraints on Floyd continued even after he stopped breathing.
"No, the restraints continued after that — he has the cessation of respiratory efforts. When you last take a breath the knee remains on the neck for another 3:27 after he takes his last breath. There's the knee remains. After there's no pulse, the knee remains on the neck for another 2:44 after the officers have found themselves, there's no pulse, the knee remains on the neck another 2:44," Tobin said.
Dr. Martin Tobin, a pulmonary expert, acknowledged that George Floyd had pre-existing conditions but said a healthy person would have died under the same conditions Floyd was subjected to.
The prosecutor asked Tobin if he had "an opinion of reasonable degree of medical certainty as to whether a person who had none of those pre-existing health conditions, a healthy person, would have died under the certain same circumstances of Mr. Floyd?"
Tobin responded:
"Yes. A healthy person subjected to what Mr. Floyd was subjected to, would have died as a result of what he was subjected to."
seb146 wrote:bennett123 wrote:I was referring to George Floyd's behavior.
He was clearly non co operative, and at the same time seemed, as I said borderline hysterical.
If someone were standing on your neck for nine minutes and didn't know why, wouldn't you be, too?
extender wrote:"Trained," being the operative word. Was Chauvin properly trained? What does his training records indicate?
Link
Even if Floyd said he didn't do drugs:In addition to fentanyl and methamphetamine, the toxicology report from the autopsy showed that Floyd also had cannabinoids in his system when he died.
Link
bennett123 wrote:seb146 wrote:bennett123 wrote:I was referring to George Floyd's behavior.
He was clearly non co operative, and at the same time seemed, as I said borderline hysterical.
If someone were standing on your neck for nine minutes and didn't know why, wouldn't you be, too?
I meant from the word go, not after he was on the ground with the cop on top of him.
casinterest wrote:Who cares?
casinterest wrote:It will be interesting how the defense refutes all of this.
extender wrote:casinterest wrote:Who cares?
Actually, you wrote "Who Cares?"casinterest wrote:It will be interesting how the defense refutes all of this.
The defense doesn't have to refute it, they have to create reasonable doubt.
Braybuddy wrote:Does the defence get to reject a number of selections, as they would here in Ireland?
extender wrote:Braybuddy wrote:Does the defence get to reject a number of selections, as they would here in Ireland?
Yes, both the state and the defense have a certain number of challenges in the voir dire process.
Braybuddy wrote:Thanks. So what is the racial make-up of the jury, or do we know?
The seated jury is comprised of nine women and five men. Eight are White, four are Black and two identify as multi-racial. The jurors range in age from their 20s to a grandmother in her 60s.
Attorneys and the judge worked through more than 100 people, dismissing most because they acknowledged strong views about the death that was captured on bystander video.
Link
extender wrote:The seated jury is comprised of nine women and five men. Eight are White, four are Black and two identify as multi-racial. The jurors range in age from their 20s to a grandmother in her 60s.
Attorneys and the judge worked through more than 100 people, dismissing most because they acknowledged strong views about the death that was captured on bystander video.
Link
.
extender wrote:This trial should have taken place somewhere else.
NIKV69 wrote:extender wrote:This trial should have taken place somewhere else.
This trial should have never taken place. Whoever advised Chauvin misled him. He should have tried for manslaughter deal. He will be convicted and now risks murder in the 3rd. Video is too damning.
NIKV69 wrote:This trial should have never taken place.
petertenthije wrote:NIKV69 wrote:This trial should have never taken place.
Why do you think there should not have been a trial?
How does that work in the USA? Who decides if a trial is warranted?
From my (Dutch) point of view: an independant organisation investigates workplace accidents/deaths. They decide if the dead was an accident or if it could have been avoided. They also determine if the defendant(s) and casualty where following rules and procedures. Based on this investigation the public prosecutor may decide on a trial.
aerosreenivas wrote:So far, from what I have seen in the ongoing trial of 'Derek Chauvin', it seems 'All Promising ' that the prosecutors have done a great job in proving that Floyd's death was a cause of 'Police Officer's Excessive Force'.
But I'm concerned that the verdict is going to end up in favour 'Derek Chauvin'. In the coming weeks, the defense team will have their witness pushing harder this point that Floyd died of Drugs.
This somehow will convince the Jurors and they will not punish the former police officer.
The verdict for this case will turn up in the same way as how George Zimmerman proved that killing 'Trevon Martin' was in act of 'Self-Defense'.
So far, in many cases involving police officers, 99% of the time, the jurors have been in the favor of the 'Men In Blue'. No matter, how convincing the evidence might show that the 'Unarmed Person' was unnecessarily killed by the police officer.
That is why I don't know how the jurors are going to 'Convict Chauvin'.
af773atmsp wrote:So if the police kill an unarmed Joe Public we should just brush it off and move on?
bennett123 wrote:Not sure that you can hold them to the same standards.
They do no have the same role as Joe Public.
If a crime is being committed, Joe Public can walk away.
bennett123 wrote:Not sure that you can hold them to the same standards.
They do no have the same role as Joe Public.
If a crime is being committed, Joe Public can walk away.
seb146 wrote:bennett123 wrote:Not sure that you can hold them to the same standards.
They do no have the same role as Joe Public.
If a crime is being committed, Joe Public can walk away.
Kneeling on the back of an unarmed person until they die can not be the same across the board? Really??
They DO have the same role as Joe Public. Taking a life is taking a life. Why do cops get to walk free but the rest of us don't? Why are there two sets of rules? Why do cops get to live their lives after killing unarmed people but the rest of us don't?
George Floyd tried to walk away.
N583JB wrote:seb146 wrote:bennett123 wrote:Not sure that you can hold them to the same standards.
They do no have the same role as Joe Public.
If a crime is being committed, Joe Public can walk away.
Kneeling on the back of an unarmed person until they die can not be the same across the board? Really??
They DO have the same role as Joe Public. Taking a life is taking a life. Why do cops get to walk free but the rest of us don't? Why are there two sets of rules? Why do cops get to live their lives after killing unarmed people but the rest of us don't?
George Floyd tried to walk away.
Cops have different rules because cops have different responsibilities and expectations. You aren't required to apprehend criminals. Police are.
SESGDL wrote:N583JB wrote:seb146 wrote:
Kneeling on the back of an unarmed person until they die can not be the same across the board? Really??
They DO have the same role as Joe Public. Taking a life is taking a life. Why do cops get to walk free but the rest of us don't? Why are there two sets of rules? Why do cops get to live their lives after killing unarmed people but the rest of us don't?
George Floyd tried to walk away.
Cops have different rules because cops have different responsibilities and expectations. You aren't required to apprehend criminals. Police are.
Yes, and it's a responsibility of the police to try to protect people, not murder them in cold blood while dozens of people sit back and watch in horror. I sometimes can't believe some of the things people defend... Imagine if George Floyd had been a white woman, which, before you say that a white woman doesn't pose the same threat as George Floyd did, would have been the equivalent situation with George Floyd handcuffed with his face to the pavement as four strong, male, heavily armed police officers stood over him (one of them kneeling with nearly all of his body weight). All four of these cops would have already been sentenced with murder and in prison. Why is it that when black men are killed by police people bend over backwards to somehow find a way to defend the indefensible?
Jeremy
Kiwirob wrote:Whatever hes convicted of people won't be happy, the city will probably burn, rinse and repeat.
phugoid1982 wrote:Kiwirob wrote:Whatever hes convicted of people won't be happy, the city will probably burn, rinse and repeat.
I'm honestly just sick of all the coverage on the news about the trial. Chauvin was a bully given his history and he definitely should go to to prison for a long time. But I'm sick of the lionization of Floyd. It's sad for his family and he didn't deserve to die but he should've been cooperative and obviously had a he not been high as a kite he would've lived. The $27mil settlement is disgusting though and from a legal point of view doesn't it make it harder for Chauvin to get a fair trial (event though I want him convicted) when the massive payout gives the impression he's already guilty. It's all these wimpy government officials caving into rioters who go out and destroy businesses like they are doing again in MN yesterday after the other shooting. On the other hand, Dr. Lawrence Crosby, a black Ph.D Engineering student at Northwestern with a clean record was pulled over about 6 years ago and tackled by cops and arrested because some racist fool thought he was stealing his own car. All he got was paltry $1.25 million. Off course he made it out with his life but from a strictly actuarial point of view I guess (Floyd was never going to make that kind of money in his lifetime). Dr. Crosby will and he spent years having to rebuild his reputation. And barely a peep from the media about this, a law abiding citizen with a clean record.
Plus, what about the Pakistani uber eats driver killed a few weeks ago in DC when two teenagers tried to steal his car and he clung to the door and was killed when they crashed? Not a peep from our Mayor. Those teens got no prison time either. As a person of Indian decent, we just don't fit into the identity politics of both parties so one's gonna burn and loot for us when we're attacked even with all the anti-asian sentiment fueled by COVID
N583JB wrote:SESGDL wrote:N583JB wrote:
Cops have different rules because cops have different responsibilities and expectations. You aren't required to apprehend criminals. Police are.
Yes, and it's a responsibility of the police to try to protect people, not murder them in cold blood while dozens of people sit back and watch in horror. I sometimes can't believe some of the things people defend... Imagine if George Floyd had been a white woman, which, before you say that a white woman doesn't pose the same threat as George Floyd did, would have been the equivalent situation with George Floyd handcuffed with his face to the pavement as four strong, male, heavily armed police officers stood over him (one of them kneeling with nearly all of his body weight). All four of these cops would have already been sentenced with murder and in prison. Why is it that when black men are killed by police people bend over backwards to somehow find a way to defend the indefensible?
Jeremy
I wasn't referring to the Floyd case, just policing in general. I believe that Chauvin is guilty.
SESGDL wrote:... Imagine if George Floyd had been a white woman, which, before you say that a white woman doesn't pose the same threat as George Floyd did, would have been the equivalent situation with George Floyd handcuffed with his face to the pavement as four strong, male, heavily armed police officers stood over him (one of them kneeling with nearly all of his body weight). All four of these cops would have already been sentenced with murder and in prison. Why is it that when black men are killed by police people bend over backwards to somehow find a way to defend the indefensible?
Pellegrine wrote:Well the MN police killed another unarmed Black man last night, only miles from where George Floyd was murdered and the trial is taking place now. There's going to be riots if that pig bastard is set free.