https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-as ... dia-and-uk
Vietnam health minister Nguyen Thanh Long said on Saturday (May 29) the country has detected a new variant of the coronavirus, which is a mix of the Covid-19 variants first identified in India and Britain and spreads quickly by air, online newspaper VnExpress reported.

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/3ddd1 ... 4d83381881
Some restaurant owners in Tokyo decided to defy government order and serve alcohol in their restaurants, and resume normal operating hour, after reading the news that Olympics athletes will be allowed to bring alcohol into residence

Aesma wrote:

About NZ and Australia, do people there want to be vaccinated ? Having been mostly spared by the virus might be a disincentive for many. And not everyone cares that much about being stuck in their country.

Things have changed in Australia, at least in Melbourne. We have just gone into our 4th lockdown, due to the Indian variant escaping hotel quarantine in ADL, infecting a MEL-bound pax on his last day of quarantine in ADL. Only 49 active cases, but the speed of infection (within 24 hours of contact) has alarmed health authorities. As a result, those in MEL aged between 40-50 are now eligible for the Pfizer jab, previously only under-40's who were first responders/health care were eligible. As a result, phone lines for booking lines have been jammed, and vaccine rates have started to increase.

The lockdown is meant to end on Thursday night, but will most likely be extended - over 200 listed exposure sites so far....

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/b5fde ... 25c91eabd6
Deputy president of Japan Olympic Committee claim, as other countries with higher case rate than Japan didn't develop into infection cluster or explosive increase in infection rate, and in the view of UK, US, Germany infection rate dropping as their vaccination program progress and considering Japan's push of vaccine from now on, he think the current situation is very ready for opening of the Olympic and it is fine to not consider about cancellation, unless the infection rate suddenly jump by dozens or hundreds time then that can be reconsidered at that time

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/53e0b ... f482821f65
In response to Japanese entrepreneurs questioning the opening of Olympic, an executive from the Olympic organizing committee claim he think opening of Olympic would have better economic effect to Japan

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/0fd24 ... 1fa2142654
In Japanese government expert meeting against pandemic, most experts in the field of pandemic and econonics agree that it will be difficult to organize Olympic when Tokyo's infection level stay at same level as emergency status's issuance line of stage 4, but as there are other experts from Olympic organizing committee, and such comment have big social impact thus they're reserving on how and when they'd make the comment. On the other head, the chairman of such expert meeting said on the legislature that the government have not requested opinion on the matter from them by now.

All these outbreaks (again), in Hong Kong, Singapore, Vietnam, Thailand, Australia, now Taiwan too.

So keeping all the filthy foreigners out, trapping your own citizens in, and even tramping on your own nationals rights of return as many Asian governments have been doing for the last 1 1/2 years has failed. You could have knocked me with a feather!

It's time we stop calling them success stories, even New Zealand. Their measures were great and laudable in the first 6 months to a year of the pandemic, and we can still all learn from them for future outbreaks, especially pre-vaccine time. But as totally expected, shutting yourself from the whole planet for eternity without any further plan is not a plan, nor is it something to praise. The Asian governments had quite a long time to figure out steps and prepare for mass vaccinations, all they kept saying are tropes like keeping the current measures, and reopening when it is "safe to do so". That 'reopen when safe to do so' was the code word for either "we don't have a clue", or "we didn't do our homework for the next phase". Even New Zealand, which has the double benefit of being an island and being very out of the way from almost all human and migration paths, will not keep the virus out forever. It only takes 1 fail amongst 10 million successes.

Maradona's goal against England, would be remembered by absolutely no one if the English goalkeeper had been able to block or deflect the shot or it's direction away from goal, even after he had dribbled by 7 players or so. Similarly, the true success stories will be countries who both contained the initial outbreaks from getting out of control, kept the infections and death toll low, successfully inoculated the population, did proper investments in better ventilation and medical infrastructure to handle future outbreaks, and returned to a near normal economic and cultural and reopen their borders to normal ties with the world. It must the the entire process, from beginning to some type of satisfactory conclusion for the society at large, the economy, and the government.

Until then, no one is a success.

Derico wrote:

All these outbreaks (again), in Hong Kong, Singapore, Vietnam, Thailand, Australia, now Taiwan too.

So keeping all the filthy foreigners out, trapping your own citizens in, and even tramping on your own nationals rights of return as many Asian governments have been doing for the last 1 1/2 years has failed. You could have knocked me with a feather!

It's time we stop calling them success stories, even New Zealand. Their measures were great and laudable in the first 6 months to a year of the pandemic, and we can still all learn from them for future outbreaks, especially pre-vaccine time. But as totally expected, shutting yourself from the whole planet for eternity without any further plan is not a plan, nor is it something to praise. The Asian governments had quite a long time to figure out steps and prepare for mass vaccinations, all they kept saying are tropes like keeping the current measures, and reopening when it is "safe to do so". That 'reopen when safe to do so' was the code word for either "we don't have a clue", or "we didn't do our homework for the next phase". Even New Zealand, which has the double benefit of being an island and being very out of the way from almost all human and migration paths, will not keep the virus out forever. It only takes 1 fail amongst 10 million successes.

Maradona's goal against England, would be remembered by absolutely no one if the English goalkeeper had been able to block or deflect the shot or it's direction away from goal, even after he had dribbled by 7 players or so. Similarly, the true success stories will be countries who both contained the initial outbreaks from getting out of control, kept the infections and death toll low, successfully inoculated the population, did proper investments in better ventilation and medical infrastructure to handle future outbreaks, and returned to a near normal economic and cultural and reopen their borders to normal ties with the world. It must the the entire process, from beginning to some type of satisfactory conclusion for the society at large, the economy, and the government.

Until then, no one is a success.

We have entered the last phase, inoculation.

Now success will be low cases and economic growth. It will be every country for itself trying to restart their economy.

The challenge will be vaccine hesitancy. I do not want anyone flying in unvaccinated. There will be too many strains.

Long term we need the world vaccinated.

Lightsaber

ps,
I posted in the vaccine thread a relative is once again lead in a coronavirus ward. It was stood down, now B.1.1.617.x (Indian variants) are filling back up the beds. The doctors and nurses are fatigued. They need vacations. They need to do their day jobs.


We've posted enough links on how vaccines protect others. In my opinion, we would be through this in the USA if there weren't vaccine avoiders. In my opinion, we will have another wave (already seen at my relatives hospital, filling up ICU and teenagers in beds, including one "11 to 18" year old who seemed healthy, yet died quickly.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-05- ... ssion.html

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

Derico wrote:

All these outbreaks (again), in Hong Kong, Singapore, Vietnam, Thailand, Australia, now Taiwan too.

So keeping all the filthy foreigners out, trapping your own citizens in, and even tramping on your own nationals rights of return as many Asian governments have been doing for the last 1 1/2 years has failed. You could have knocked me with a feather!

It's time we stop calling them success stories, even New Zealand. Their measures were great and laudable in the first 6 months to a year of the pandemic, and we can still all learn from them for future outbreaks, especially pre-vaccine time. But as totally expected, shutting yourself from the whole planet for eternity without any further plan is not a plan, nor is it something to praise. The Asian governments had quite a long time to figure out steps and prepare for mass vaccinations, all they kept saying are tropes like keeping the current measures, and reopening when it is "safe to do so". That 'reopen when safe to do so' was the code word for either "we don't have a clue", or "we didn't do our homework for the next phase". Even New Zealand, which has the double benefit of being an island and being very out of the way from almost all human and migration paths, will not keep the virus out forever. It only takes 1 fail amongst 10 million successes.

Maradona's goal against England, would be remembered by absolutely no one if the English goalkeeper had been able to block or deflect the shot or it's direction away from goal, even after he had dribbled by 7 players or so. Similarly, the true success stories will be countries who both contained the initial outbreaks from getting out of control, kept the infections and death toll low, successfully inoculated the population, did proper investments in better ventilation and medical infrastructure to handle future outbreaks, and returned to a near normal economic and cultural and reopen their borders to normal ties with the world. It must the the entire process, from beginning to some type of satisfactory conclusion for the society at large, the economy, and the government.

Until then, no one is a success.

We have entered the last phase, inoculation.

Now success will be low cases and economic growth. It will be every country for itself trying to restart their economy.

The challenge will be vaccine hesitancy. I do not want anyone flying in unvaccinated. There will be too many strains.

Long term we need the world vaccinated.

Lightsaber

I question whether vaccine passports are actually useful (though I have been for them even before the pandemic, I have always been for "bio controls" at airports).

The reason is, all I hear is that vaccines are supposed to make the virus less virulent, and interrupt transmission. They are not designed to keep a carrier from infecting others.

If that is so, what does it matter if someone is vaccinated or not. They can still all the same carry the virus to where they are going.

So from a epidemic angle, I don't see the use. I can see the use as an incentive for many people to get the vaccine, so I still support the idea. No vaccine, never leave your country again. (in fact this should be done within countries, no vaccine, no travel to other states or provinces).

Derico wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Derico wrote:

All these outbreaks (again), in Hong Kong, Singapore, Vietnam, Thailand, Australia, now Taiwan too.

So keeping all the filthy foreigners out, trapping your own citizens in, and even tramping on your own nationals rights of return as many Asian governments have been doing for the last 1 1/2 years has failed. You could have knocked me with a feather!

It's time we stop calling them success stories, even New Zealand. Their measures were great and laudable in the first 6 months to a year of the pandemic, and we can still all learn from them for future outbreaks, especially pre-vaccine time. But as totally expected, shutting yourself from the whole planet for eternity without any further plan is not a plan, nor is it something to praise. The Asian governments had quite a long time to figure out steps and prepare for mass vaccinations, all they kept saying are tropes like keeping the current measures, and reopening when it is "safe to do so". That 'reopen when safe to do so' was the code word for either "we don't have a clue", or "we didn't do our homework for the next phase". Even New Zealand, which has the double benefit of being an island and being very out of the way from almost all human and migration paths, will not keep the virus out forever. It only takes 1 fail amongst 10 million successes.

Maradona's goal against England, would be remembered by absolutely no one if the English goalkeeper had been able to block or deflect the shot or it's direction away from goal, even after he had dribbled by 7 players or so. Similarly, the true success stories will be countries who both contained the initial outbreaks from getting out of control, kept the infections and death toll low, successfully inoculated the population, did proper investments in better ventilation and medical infrastructure to handle future outbreaks, and returned to a near normal economic and cultural and reopen their borders to normal ties with the world. It must the the entire process, from beginning to some type of satisfactory conclusion for the society at large, the economy, and the government.

Until then, no one is a success.

We have entered the last phase, inoculation.

Now success will be low cases and economic growth. It will be every country for itself trying to restart their economy.

The challenge will be vaccine hesitancy. I do not want anyone flying in unvaccinated. There will be too many strains.

Long term we need the world vaccinated.

Lightsaber

I question whether vaccine passports are actually useful (though I have been for them even before the pandemic, I have always been for "bio controls" at airports).

The reason is, all I hear is that vaccines are supposed to make the virus less virulent, and interrupt transmission. They are not designed to keep a carrier from infecting others.

If that is so, what does it matter if someone is vaccinated or not. They can still all the same carry the virus to where they are going.

So from a epidemic angle, I don't see the use. I can see the use as an incentive for many people to get the vaccine, so I still support the idea. No vaccine, never leave your country again. (in fact this should be done within countries, no vaccine, no travel to other states or provinces).

Vaccines have been proven to reduce how many people someone infects. It definitely matters!

I don't like vaccine passports. However, thus will get bad again without vaccines.

Vaccines mean the vaccinated infect 50% to 90% fewer people than unvaccinated.

Simplistically, if you cannot get the virus, you will not transmit it. In the real world, some vaccinated will spread not most. If unvaccinated have Ro=4, then vaccinated will have an Ro of 0.4 to 2.0. That makes a huge difference from a public health perspective.

In the real world R= Ro(natural*(behavior reduction)*(1-resitance to transmit)*(1-immunity)

From what I've read:
For J&J R=4*1*(1-.75)*(1-.8)= 0.2, or ever infected vaccinated with J&J person has a 20% chance of infecting someone with J&J, if they only contact unvaccinated, even J&J will infect one.

For mRNA R=4*1*(1-.9)*(1-.95)=0.02 or every mRNA has a 2% chance of infecting someone who had mRNA vaccine or 0.4 unvaccinated.

The unvaccinated are in trouble. My relative's Coronavirus ward was shut down, two days ago it reopened and is filling up with the unvaccinated. Unfortunately they had a child, old enough to be vaccinated and previously healthy, die from B.1.1.617.x.

They are having trouble staffing the ward (prior contracts ended) as no one wants patients who die because they avoided a needle. The have one vaccinated person (immnio-deficient in the extreme) and everyone else someone who volunteered to "be vaccinated the hard way."

The misinformation out there is horrible. The large vaccinated population is generally safe. The unvaccinated... Will be a burden.

I have decreasing long haul symptoms from Covid19, but it looks like I'll never taste fat again (bacon, deserts, hamburger went from favorites of mine to yucky). To new variants have worse longhaul symptoms.

The only way to limit new variants is only let the international incoming passengers and crew be vaccinated. I'm an aviation fan, but I would rather ground the widebodies then let in. Maybe because I just watched someone bragging they just came from India collapse at the airport... oops. Thankfully they were loud and I was masked and far away.

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

The unvaccinated are in trouble. My relative's Coronavirus ward was shut down, two days ago it reopened and is filling up with the unvaccinated. Unfortunately they had a child, old enough to be vaccinated and previously healthy, die from B.1.1.617.x.

They are having trouble staffing the ward (prior contracts ended) as no one wants patients who die because they avoided a needle. The have one vaccinated person (immnio-deficient in the extreme) and everyone else someone who volunteered to "be vaccinated the hard way."

The misinformation out there is horrible. The large vaccinated population is generally safe. The unvaccinated... Will be a burden.

Lightsaber

The story of your sister and the many similar stories happening around the country need to come to light and be publicized more, graphically if possible.
The idiots refusing to be vaccinated need to understand what they sign up for and what they're responsible for.

I wouldn't hold it against her or her peers to quit. If anything, the shortage of volunteers due to mental and physical fatigue would help shine more light on the issue.

In reply to Derico.
Australia and New Zealand are not planning on keeping the virus out forever.
When the outbreak started there was no known medical intervention to reduce incompacitation and death.
The only known methods of control were the age old public health measures of reducing person to person contact and identifying and isolating infected people until the infectious phase had passed.
These measures stringently applied have been outstandingly effective in this outbreak as proved in NZ and elsewhere.
Longer term it here it was almost universally accepted that Covid would eventually be largely controlled by vaccines, as we have got used to for smallpox, measles, polio, and a multitude of other ailments.
The medical research that was so quickly got underway has now produced effective vaccines remarkably quickly.
Getting adequate supplies everywhere, and the infrastructure to tranship, administer and record these vaccinations though is still very much work in progress around the world. This has not been helped by export bans and limits being imposed by some countries on vaccine shipments.
Getting the first 30% of any population to accept these vaccines is the easy part but getting the last 30% of any population to accept the vaccine will be a considerable challenge. And yet how much of that last 30% will determine whether that critical herd immunity when outbreaks become largely self extinguishing is achieved.
Getting these numbers up is heavily dependant on ensuring that first phase remains very largely problem free.
Being slightly behind the leaders means more information is around to avoid pitfalls.
Currently the speed of the NZ vaccination program is largely constrained by supply, largely influenced by a late decision to pivot to an all Pfizer program to simplify it and reduce perceived vaccine hesitancy. Next month deliveries from second Pfizer order, with enough doses for the remainder of the program are scheduled to commence hopefully alleviating the supply issues.
We are not shut off from the rest of the world, we are free to leave, but the upon returning from any place outside designated travel bubbles, we must book and pay for a two week stay in our managed isolation. Places are constrained.
These are only interim arrangements until we have achieved our vaccination program probably about the end of the year.
Then it is expected, following risk assessments we will further our process, already started to relax entry controls on a country by country basis.
It is accepted that covid will occur in NZ, but until our vaccination programme is a lot more advanced we would be most unwise to relax further.
Victoria once again is an example of how easily outbreaks can spread in our as yet largely unvaccinated communities.
And yes inspite of loosing valuable tourism income, the economy is far from trashed.
The OECD is forecasting by the end of 2022 a 3.8% annual growth forecast, ahead of the US at 3.6%
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300321 ... ion-needed.

https://www.who.int/ihr/IVC200_06_26.pdf?ua=1
We used to carry this in the 70s. Isn't this a "vaccine passport"?

Francoflier wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

The unvaccinated are in trouble. My relative's Coronavirus ward was shut down, two days ago it reopened and is filling up with the unvaccinated. Unfortunately they had a child, old enough to be vaccinated and previously healthy, die from B.1.1.617.x.

They are having trouble staffing the ward (prior contracts ended) as no one wants patients who die because they avoided a needle. The have one vaccinated person (immnio-deficient in the extreme) and everyone else someone who volunteered to "be vaccinated the hard way."

The misinformation out there is horrible. The large vaccinated population is generally safe. The unvaccinated... Will be a burden.

Lightsaber

The story of your sister and the many similar stories happening around the country need to come to light and be publicized more, graphically if possible.
The idiots refusing to be vaccinated need to understand what they sign up for and what they're responsible for.

I wouldn't hold it against her or her peers to quit. If anything, the shortage of volunteers due to mental and physical fatigue would help shine more light on the issue.

What is worse is some of the other leads are done. One male doctor had a heart attack, he cannot be exposed to Covid19. Another is pregnant and my relative, knowing full well she will have a doubled workload, sent her out on maternity as the risk is too high.

Before they pulled pediatric care, gall bladder specialists, "elective" surgery, and nephrologists (kidney) as people were too scared to come in for treatment. What was supposed to be a 3 month stint was a year.

Then it ended. For 3 weeks there were so few Covid19 patients, the ICU just took care of them. But then... boom! They're back .... Now 19 patients vs. a prior peak of 50.

They have one vaccinated patient who... cannot develop a coronavirus immunity for easy to understand medical reasons I cannot divulge. Every one else volunteered for this. They had three teenagers. For some reason the healthiest one died fast.

Now if a patient is at the end, my relative is the only doctor certified to do the last conversation where they crank up the medicine and oxygen for the last 20 to 40 minutes of conciousness to say goodbye. Because the other doctor is the pregnant doctor, it means 8 days in a row of 14 hour workdays. My relative will not come in to do the procedure on off days as she knows it is a burnout schedule and... there just isn't the sympathy (the patient who was vaccinated will not wake up again and was transferred to the ICU for palative care).

The amount of heroin my relative has prescribed is off the charts. It is like people do not understand how painful a coronavirus hospital stay will be and this ward has the best national record! Grrrr....

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

Francoflier wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

The unvaccinated are in trouble. My relative's Coronavirus ward was shut down, two days ago it reopened and is filling up with the unvaccinated. Unfortunately they had a child, old enough to be vaccinated and previously healthy, die from B.1.1.617.x.

They are having trouble staffing the ward (prior contracts ended) as no one wants patients who die because they avoided a needle. The have one vaccinated person (immnio-deficient in the extreme) and everyone else someone who volunteered to "be vaccinated the hard way."

The misinformation out there is horrible. The large vaccinated population is generally safe. The unvaccinated... Will be a burden.

Lightsaber

The story of your sister and the many similar stories happening around the country need to come to light and be publicized more, graphically if possible.
The idiots refusing to be vaccinated need to understand what they sign up for and what they're responsible for.

I wouldn't hold it against her or her peers to quit. If anything, the shortage of volunteers due to mental and physical fatigue would help shine more light on the issue.

What is worse is some of the other leads are done. One male doctor had a heart attack, he cannot be exposed to Covid19. Another is pregnant and my relative, knowing full well she will have a doibled workload, sent her out on maternity as the risk is too high.

Before they pulled pediatric care, gall bladder specialists, "elective" surgery, and nephrologists (kidney) as people were too scared to come in for treatment. What was supposed to be a 3 month stint was a year.

Then it ended. For 3 weeks there were so few Covid19 patients, the ICU just took care of them. But then... boom! They're back .... Now 19 patients vs. a prior peak of 50.

They have one vaccinated patient who... cannot develop a coronavirus immunity for easy to understand medical reasons I cannot divulge. Every one else volunteered for this. They had three teenagers. For some reason the healthiest one died fast.

Now if a patient is at the end, my relative is the only doctor certified to do the last conversation where they crank up the medicine and oxygen for the last 20 to 40 minutes of conciousness to say goodbye. Because the other doctor is the pregnant doctor, it means 8 days in a row of 14 hour workdays. My relative will not come in to do the procedure on off days as she knows it is a burnout schedule and... there just isn't the sympathy (the patient who was vaccinated will not wake up again and was transferred to the ICU for palative care).

The amount of heroin my relative has prescribed is off the charts. It is like people do not understand how painful a coronavirus hospital stay will be and this ward has the best national record! Grrrr....

Lightsaber

So bloody unnecessary. I'd use stronger language, but for the children...very much feel for dedicated professionals in healthcare. Have some in my family too and they only started coming out of hell in the last couple months. Though my lucky younger cousin who's an MD in SF never had much trouble because her hospital was not in a part of the city that had much COVID at all - a handful of cases at most.

Aaron747 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Francoflier wrote:

The story of your sister and the many similar stories happening around the country need to come to light and be publicized more, graphically if possible.
The idiots refusing to be vaccinated need to understand what they sign up for and what they're responsible for.

I wouldn't hold it against her or her peers to quit. If anything, the shortage of volunteers due to mental and physical fatigue would help shine more light on the issue.

What is worse is some of the other leads are done. One male doctor had a heart attack, he cannot be exposed to Covid19. Another is pregnant and my relative, knowing full well she will have a doibled workload, sent her out on maternity as the risk is too high.

Before they pulled pediatric care, gall bladder specialists, "elective" surgery, and nephrologists (kidney) as people were too scared to come in for treatment. What was supposed to be a 3 month stint was a year.

Then it ended. For 3 weeks there were so few Covid19 patients, the ICU just took care of them. But then... boom! They're back .... Now 19 patients vs. a prior peak of 50.

They have one vaccinated patient who... cannot develop a coronavirus immunity for easy to understand medical reasons I cannot divulge. Every one else volunteered for this. They had three teenagers. For some reason the healthiest one died fast.

Now if a patient is at the end, my relative is the only doctor certified to do the last conversation where they crank up the medicine and oxygen for the last 20 to 40 minutes of conciousness to say goodbye. Because the other doctor is the pregnant doctor, it means 8 days in a row of 14 hour workdays. My relative will not come in to do the procedure on off days as she knows it is a burnout schedule and... there just isn't the sympathy (the patient who was vaccinated will not wake up again and was transferred to the ICU for palative care).

The amount of heroin my relative has prescribed is off the charts. It is like people do not understand how painful a coronavirus hospital stay will be and this ward has the best national record! Grrrr....

Lightsaber

So bloody unnecessary. I'd use stronger language, but for the children...very much feel for dedicated professionals in healthcare. Have some in my family too and they only started coming out of hell in the last couple months. Though my lucky younger cousin who's an MD in SF never had much trouble because her hospital was not in a part of the city that had much COVID at all - a handful of cases at most.

We are in for a long summer in some of the areas in the US where family gatherings occur. Hopefully more and more are getting vaccinated, but there are going to be horrible outcomes for those that are susceptible to this virus and choose not to get vaccinated. Depending on others to get vaccinated for herd immunity when you could have done so yourself and chose not to is not the way save lives.

lightsaber wrote:

They have one vaccinated patient who... cannot develop a coronavirus immunity for easy to understand medical reasons I cannot divulge. Every one else volunteered for this. They had three teenagers. For some reason the healthiest one died fast.

Cytokine storm?

c933103 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

They have one vaccinated patient who... cannot develop a coronavirus immunity for easy to understand medical reasons I cannot divulge. Every one else volunteered for this. They had three teenagers. For some reason the healthiest one died fast.

Cytokine storm?

They have medicine for that now. Expensive with guaranteed long term side effects, but the Cytokine storms aren't as fatal. It is still nasty.

Lightsaber

casinterest wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

What is worse is some of the other leads are done. One male doctor had a heart attack, he cannot be exposed to Covid19. Another is pregnant and my relative, knowing full well she will have a doibled workload, sent her out on maternity as the risk is too high.

Before they pulled pediatric care, gall bladder specialists, "elective" surgery, and nephrologists (kidney) as people were too scared to come in for treatment. What was supposed to be a 3 month stint was a year.

Then it ended. For 3 weeks there were so few Covid19 patients, the ICU just took care of them. But then... boom! They're back .... Now 19 patients vs. a prior peak of 50.

They have one vaccinated patient who... cannot develop a coronavirus immunity for easy to understand medical reasons I cannot divulge. Every one else volunteered for this. They had three teenagers. For some reason the healthiest one died fast.

Now if a patient is at the end, my relative is the only doctor certified to do the last conversation where they crank up the medicine and oxygen for the last 20 to 40 minutes of conciousness to say goodbye. Because the other doctor is the pregnant doctor, it means 8 days in a row of 14 hour workdays. My relative will not come in to do the procedure on off days as she knows it is a burnout schedule and... there just isn't the sympathy (the patient who was vaccinated will not wake up again and was transferred to the ICU for palative care).

The amount of heroin my relative has prescribed is off the charts. It is like people do not understand how painful a coronavirus hospital stay will be and this ward has the best national record! Grrrr....

Lightsaber

So bloody unnecessary. I'd use stronger language, but for the children...very much feel for dedicated professionals in healthcare. Have some in my family too and they only started coming out of hell in the last couple months. Though my lucky younger cousin who's an MD in SF never had much trouble because her hospital was not in a part of the city that had much COVID at all - a handful of cases at most.

We are in for a long summer in some of the areas in the US where family gatherings occur. Hopefully more and more are getting vaccinated, but there are going to be horrible outcomes for those that are susceptible to this virus and choose not to get vaccinated. Depending on others to get vaccinated for herd immunity when you could have done so yourself and chose not to is not the way save lives.

Once again the US outbreak is starting in resort areas. Now, the new strain is less prevalent than the old, which is fading. This new variant is fast. The unvacvinated lost their easy ticket out. My relative's hospital is one where they fly anyone with less than a trivial case from those resorts.

The air national guard chopper pilots were recalled on Saturday, bummer to ruin a needed vacation. They once again need multiple crews per trammahawk. Thankfully the machines had 3 weeks of downtime for maintenance.

Anything you want to know on Covid19 in data:
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus

It will take 4 weeks for cases to show up. If this holiday weekend wasn't a mass spreading event, I will be shocked. Every airport was crowded and people either do not wear masks or continue to not cover the nose. Crowded restaurants... I and my relatives were among the few religiously wearing masks and trying to social distance.

Every restaurant had new trainee waitresses.

My prediction is a start in a rise in cases in 2 weeks and perhaps 8 weeks from now an obvious wave.

I hope my Pfizer vaccine (2nd dose over a month ago) proves its worth.

Lightsaber

Looking really bad in South America



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E2zt65SVUAQ ... name=large

And anecdotal review. Our Kitsap County and Washington State (where first serious outbreak in the US occurred) went into full protection mode early in 2020. Washington was doing amongst the best in the US, and Kitsap County was doing better than the State, despite all of the defense industry going full bore. Until recent ....... The State now has one of the highest infectious rates in the US, with our county doing somewhat better. But the death rate is very low versus the rest of the country.

A Washington Post article already referenced on this thread featured some out our statistics with the infectious rates of the unvaccinated. There is obviously an active pandemic continuing with the unvaccinated, infectious rates as bad as January of 2021. The death rates remain very low, which I interpret to imply most of the cases are amongst the otherwise young and healthy. But as one poster has noted, those young healthy persons are risking becoming long haulers. Perhaps 10%, maybe even more - and so unnecessary.

frmrCapCadet wrote:

And anecdotal review. Our Kitsap County and Washington State (where first serious outbreak in the US occurred) went into full protection mode early in 2020. Washington was doing amongst the best in the US, and Kitsap County was doing better than the State, despite all of the defense industry going full bore. Until recent ....... The State now has one of the highest infectious rates in the US, with our county doing somewhat better. But the death rate is very low versus the rest of the country.

A Washington Post article already referenced on this thread featured some out our statistics with the infectious rates of the unvaccinated. There is obviously an active pandemic continuing with the unvaccinated, infectious rates as bad as January of 2021. The death rates remain very low, which I interpret to imply most of the cases are amongst the otherwise young and healthy. But as one poster has noted, those young healthy persons are risking becoming long haulers. Perhaps 10%, maybe even more - and so unnecessary.

I'd love Washington data. From the UK:
But Professor Tim Spector, a King's College London epidemiologist who has been tracking the virus for more than a year, yesterday said: 'Virtually all cases are aged under 50 or unvaccinated – so vaccines work.'

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medica ... NewsSearch

So one jab doesn't do much with the new variant as implied currently by "under 50." The whole UK outbreak shows the need for full vaccination today.

Yes, I was a huge proponent of the UK one jab as many strategy, but the Indian variant shows that doesn't work anymore. Bummer. I wish J&J usable production was higher...

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

I hope my Pfizer vaccine (2nd dose over a month ago) proves its worth.

Lightsaber

Just to be safe, keep mask indoors, when it is crowded.

No mask guidance during pandemic is like throwing away fire extinguisher in the middle of a fire fight.

Derico wrote:

The reason is, all I hear is that vaccines are supposed to make the virus less virulent, and interrupt transmission. They are not designed to keep a carrier from infecting others.

I keep seeing this repeated and it's wrong to the point where I think it's starting to become misinformation.

It is true that the initial trials were designed to test for protection from infection and/or disease. However, the immune system doesn't work that way. Immunity necessarily reduces viral reproduction and transmission in almost all cases. Indeed, for the mRNA vaccines, the data have consistently shown approximately a 90% reduction in asymptomatic infection, a 94% reduction in overall infection and a 96-97% reduction in symptomatic infection. So, because you cannot transmit a virus you do not have, the mRNA vaccines at least must reduce transmission by a minimum of 90%. Moreover, data from Israel showed 2-16-fold lower viral loads in the noses of those who were vaccinated and then tested positive. This virus transmits during a brief window of high viral load. Reduction of viral load will almost certainly reduce transmission further.

Smaller effects have been shown for the less efficacious adenovirus-vectored vaccines, but those reductions are in the 50-70% range.

There are very few antiviral vaccines that do not reduce transmission of their respective viruses.

DocLightning wrote:

Derico wrote:

The reason is, all I hear is that vaccines are supposed to make the virus less virulent, and interrupt transmission. They are not designed to keep a carrier from infecting others.

I keep seeing this repeated and it's wrong to the point where I think it's starting to become misinformation.

It is true that the initial trials were designed to test for protection from infection and/or disease. However, the immune system doesn't work that way. Immunity necessarily reduces viral reproduction and transmission in almost all cases. Indeed, for the mRNA vaccines, the data have consistently shown approximately a 90% reduction in asymptomatic infection, a 94% reduction in overall infection and a 96-97% reduction in symptomatic infection. So, because you cannot transmit a virus you do not have, the mRNA vaccines at least must reduce transmission by a minimum of 90%. Moreover, data from Israel showed 2-16-fold lower viral loads in the noses of those who were vaccinated and then tested positive. This virus transmits during a brief window of high viral load. Reduction of viral load will almost certainly reduce transmission further.

Smaller effects have been shown for the less efficacious adenovirus-vectored vaccines, but those reductions are in the 50-70% range.

There are very few antiviral vaccines that do not reduce transmission of their respective viruses.

It needs to be emphasized that vaccines reduce infection in others.
Worse case is one dose and that reduces infection in others by 50%. Best case is as noted above, 96% to 97% reduction in symptomatic which means fewer go to the hospital (or worse).

To everyone else, when the next big wave hits, do you want to be around the unvaccinated or the vaccinated for your own risk?

I know dance classes are starting back up. Proof of vaccination required. There is no government mandate, they just cannot get enough people without requiring vaccines!

Lightsaber

Cluster in Melbourne believed to have started as transmission between two 5th grade students:
https://amp.news.com.au/national/victor ... 5f69df127a

This new "delta" variant is too interesting.

Lightsaber

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/caad5 ... 1b9932c764
As Japanese government pandemic prevention expert committee chairperson voice their opposition against holding the Olympic, and say in festive environment citizens would be less likely to compmy with pandemic restriction and urge government reduce non-athlete participants, the Japanese government minister of olympic and paralympic say cancelling the olym/paralympic is not an option, and say they believe in the power of sport. And then, certain higher up in the ruling party LDP commented that such opinion crossed into an irrelevant field and say people should focus on their own area of experts. On the other hand there are also government members saying they understand it as the Olympic can be held if pandemic prevention measure are done throughly. According to people around Japanese PM Suga, pandemic prevention measures for the Olympic is expected to publish the finalized version in mid-June, and is expected to throughly conduct PCR testing and movement restriction. It will also determine the number of allowed audience, which is said that there are opinion of no audience attendance but the desire is to allow up to the limit of audience in the emergency status declaration guideline, aka up to 50% stadium capacity. It is also said that, they're focusong on the organization of the Olympic aiming to bring the world separated by coronavirus back together as one.

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/54335 ... 445ebed42b
Japan PM Suga said he want to, by realizing a save and assuring Olympic, bring hope and bravery to the world

https://www.tokyo-sports.co.jp/sports/3249582/
World Athletics leader who is also a member of IOC, warned that as some sportes depends on fund from Olympics, some of them would not be able to sustain and will be gone if Tokyo Olympic cannot organize

Yahoo Finance YouTube

Houston Methodist sued over COVID-19 vaccine mandate, raising questions of employee rights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n52z4bnn0t8

No matter the "good" intentions... Taking Experimental drugs should not be a requirement to have a job.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Yahoo Finance YouTube

Houston Methodist sued over COVID-19 vaccine mandate, raising questions of employee rights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n52z4bnn0t8

No matter the "good" intentions... Taking Experimental drugs should not be a requirement to have a job.

There are no 'questions of rights' here - anyone in HR can tell you so. Unless there is a CBA in place, companies can change policies in the course of employment and accepting a job is tacit acknowledgement this may occur. Federal employment law requires reasonable accommodations be made if employees present sound religious and/or health grounds against a particular policy. Since the plaintiff described the vaccine as 'gene modification' in her suit and there is no evidence thereof, this will not pass muster in court. In any case, longstanding precedent allows clinics and hospitals to require various vaccinations in order to obtain and/or maintain employment.

You may not know but there are up to sixteen states that already mandate vaccinations for healthcare workers (IIRC). This was challenged in court when it first came around but has been upheld since Jacobson v. Massachusetts in 1905.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/197/11/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... al-forever
Bloomberg published an article on significance of 1964 Tokyo Olympic and comparison with 2020, which in my opinion reflect dispersion between what politicians want to achieve by replicating and what will actually achieve

Cruise ship companies in Florida defy Gov. DeSantis' order on banning vaccine passports.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis calls CDC a 'bureaucratic virus' over vaccine requirements for cruise ships

Source: USA Today

Ironically, no cruise company joined Gov. DeSantis in his suit against the CDC to obey his state order of banning vaccine passports in Florida.

Aaron747 wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Yahoo Finance YouTube

Houston Methodist sued over COVID-19 vaccine mandate, raising questions of employee rights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n52z4bnn0t8

No matter the "good" intentions... Taking Experimental drugs should not be a requirement to have a job.

There are no 'questions of rights' here - anyone in HR can tell you so. Unless there is a CBA in place, companies can change policies in the course of employment and accepting a job is tacit acknowledgement this may occur. Federal employment law requires reasonable accommodations be made if employees present sound religious and/or health grounds against a particular policy. Since the plaintiff described the vaccine as 'gene modification' in her suit and there is no evidence thereof, this will not pass muster in court. In any case, longstanding precedent allows clinics and hospitals to require various vaccinations in order to obtain and/or maintain employment.

You may not know but there are up to sixteen states that already mandate vaccinations for healthcare workers (IIRC). This was challenged in court when it first came around but has been upheld since Jacobson v. Massachusetts in 1905.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/197/11/

I don't know US laws but this can only go so far to the point where it is a constructive dismissal and if proven in court this can be seen a dismissal without cause and the said employees are entitled to severance. Examples of this are. From Canadian law

- Cuts of salary of over 16% that is not voluntarily accepted
- Excessive micromanaging that is borders on harassments.
- Actual harassments
- Extended layoffs especially if an individuals job is replaced.

Requiring vaccines to enter the workplace is acceptable as they are easy to access and have really limited side effects. Unless this employers is refusing to accommodate those who can't get the vaccine for medical reasons then its an acceptable ask. If they say no vaccine and you are fired with no medical exemptions allowed then the employer can be sued.

phatfarmlines wrote:

Cruise ship companies in Florida defy Gov. DeSantis' order on banning vaccine passports.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis calls CDC a 'bureaucratic virus' over vaccine requirements for cruise ships

Source: USA Today

Ironically, no cruise company joined Gov. DeSantis in his suit against the CDC to obey his state order of banning vaccine passports in Florida.

Aren't ports federal Jurisdiction? DeSantis can huff and puff all he wants but the wouldn't the ultimate call is up to the feds?

StarAC17 wrote:

Aren't ports federal Jurisdiction? DeSantis can huff and puff all he wants but the wouldn't the ultimate call is up to the feds?

Yes, and that's even before taking into consideration some of the international ports of call (The Bahamas, for instance, a popular port of call for cruises from Florida) will require proof of vaccination.

StarAC17 wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Yahoo Finance YouTube

Houston Methodist sued over COVID-19 vaccine mandate, raising questions of employee rights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n52z4bnn0t8

No matter the "good" intentions... Taking Experimental drugs should not be a requirement to have a job.

There are no 'questions of rights' here - anyone in HR can tell you so. Unless there is a CBA in place, companies can change policies in the course of employment and accepting a job is tacit acknowledgement this may occur. Federal employment law requires reasonable accommodations be made if employees present sound religious and/or health grounds against a particular policy. Since the plaintiff described the vaccine as 'gene modification' in her suit and there is no evidence thereof, this will not pass muster in court. In any case, longstanding precedent allows clinics and hospitals to require various vaccinations in order to obtain and/or maintain employment.

You may not know but there are up to sixteen states that already mandate vaccinations for healthcare workers (IIRC). This was challenged in court when it first came around but has been upheld since Jacobson v. Massachusetts in 1905.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/197/11/

I don't know US laws but this can only go so far to the point where it is a constructive dismissal and if proven in court this can be seen a dismissal without cause and the said employees are entitled to severance. Examples of this are. From Canadian law

- Cuts of salary of over 16% that is not voluntarily accepted
- Excessive micromanaging that is borders on harassments.
- Actual harassments
- Extended layoffs especially if an individuals job is replaced.

Requiring vaccines to enter the workplace is acceptable as they are easy to access and have really limited side effects. Unless this employers is refusing to accommodate those who can't get the vaccine for medical reasons then its an acceptable ask. If they say no vaccine and you are fired with no medical exemptions allowed then the employer can be sued.

phatfarmlines wrote:

Cruise ship companies in Florida defy Gov. DeSantis' order on banning vaccine passports.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis calls CDC a 'bureaucratic virus' over vaccine requirements for cruise ships

Source: USA Today

Ironically, no cruise company joined Gov. DeSantis in his suit against the CDC to obey his state order of banning vaccine passports in Florida.

Aren't ports federal Jurisdiction? DeSantis can huff and puff all he wants but the wouldn't the ultimate call is up to the feds?

No employer would say they autoterminate without medical exemption unless their HR are totally incompetent. That’s a blatant violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act.

phatfarmlines wrote:

Cruise ship companies in Florida defy Gov. DeSantis' order on banning vaccine passports.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis calls CDC a 'bureaucratic virus' over vaccine requirements for cruise ships

Source: USA Today

Ironically, no cruise company joined Gov. DeSantis in his suit against the CDC to obey his state order of banning vaccine passports in Florida.

I guess it is a function of market and rusk, as cruise comoanies in Hong Kong are trying but failed to persuade government allowing unvaccinated guest amid local vaccination rate stay at about 21% and number of new virus case have drop to level of almost zero

c933103 wrote:

phatfarmlines wrote:

Cruise ship companies in Florida defy Gov. DeSantis' order on banning vaccine passports.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis calls CDC a 'bureaucratic virus' over vaccine requirements for cruise ships

Source: USA Today

Ironically, no cruise company joined Gov. DeSantis in his suit against the CDC to obey his state order of banning vaccine passports in Florida.

I guess it is a function of market and rusk, as cruise comoanies in Hong Kong are trying but failed to persuade government allowing unvaccinated guest amid local vaccination rate stay at about 21% and number of new virus case have drop to level of almost zero

In many places, you might have a harder time filling a cruise ship without requiring proof of vaccination. Lots of folks wouldn’t feel comfortable getting on a boat knowing they’re around non-vaccinated people.

aerolimani wrote:

c933103 wrote:

phatfarmlines wrote:

Cruise ship companies in Florida defy Gov. DeSantis' order on banning vaccine passports.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis calls CDC a 'bureaucratic virus' over vaccine requirements for cruise ships

Source: USA Today

Ironically, no cruise company joined Gov. DeSantis in his suit against the CDC to obey his state order of banning vaccine passports in Florida.

I guess it is a function of market and rusk, as cruise comoanies in Hong Kong are trying but failed to persuade government allowing unvaccinated guest amid local vaccination rate stay at about 21% and number of new virus case have drop to level of almost zero

In many places, you might have a harder time filling a cruise ship without requiring proof of vaccination. Lots of folks wouldn’t feel comfortable getting on a boat knowing they’re around non-vaccinated people.

This just proves DeSantis is a typical politician who knows zilch about business.

lightsaber wrote:

Cluster in Melbourne believed to have started as transmission between two 5th grade students:
https://amp.news.com.au/national/victor ... 5f69df127a

This new "delta" variant is too interesting.

Lightsaber

This outbreak is separate from the other outbreak already occuring in Melbourne at present. Lockdown has been extended another week, now due to end on Thursday. We're not holding out much hope that it will end then though .

At least the vaccinations are picking up speed though, I have managed to book my first jab (Pfizer) for Tuesday. Have to travel to the other side of town to have it (Showgrounds), the vaccination centres on my side of town were all booked out for Pfizer til the end of the month..

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Yahoo Finance YouTube

Houston Methodist sued over COVID-19 vaccine mandate, raising questions of employee rights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n52z4bnn0t8

No matter the "good" intentions... Taking Experimental drugs should not be a requirement to have a job.

Most companies agree. However formal approval for Pfizer and Moderna has been applied for. However, medical personnel have a responsibility to protect their patients. Vaccinated have been shown to be far less likely to transmit.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1269209
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronaviru ... 19-vaccine

Link showing unvaccinated are ten times as likely to transmit the virus!
https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/cd ... d-settings

My relative works in a hospital currently experiencing a coronavirus surge. The vaccinated staff are done with the long hours and few volunteer as the new patients chose not to be vaccinated, so far less sympathy.

The unvaccinated naturally don't want to treat coronavirus patients. So the hospital is assigning employees. To get out of the job the consider age (> 65 exempt), cancer (due to reduced immunity), and pregnancy (again, reduced immunity). Otherwise staff assigned either work coronavirus or will be dismissed for job abandonment. (Not showing up for work.) No consideration of vaccine status except for new moms are also exempt.

The 5th wave has started. It is months away from being significant, but the B.1.617.2 variant puts a lot of unvacvinated in the hospital.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/06 ... -know.html

The risks both ways are known. After a year of rediculously long hours and forced no vacations, the medical staff seem to have a very different attitude. They are too burned out to volunteer. Many want to go back to treating the patients they entered medicine to treat (pediatrics, cancer, cardiac, nephrology).

The next wave will be interesting. I see there is a large community near myself only 22% vaccinated. With the high Ro of B.1.617.2... Interesting times.

https://www.latimes.com/projects/califo ... tribution/

Lightsaber

ps, fascinating discussion with a mortician today. Their staff is so exhausted they are cutting hous locally. First funeral they will schedule is mid-July, for a steep premium. Normal price is wait listed for the fall. Perhaps a vaccine is a good idea?

lightsaber wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Yahoo Finance YouTube

Houston Methodist sued over COVID-19 vaccine mandate, raising questions of employee rights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n52z4bnn0t8

No matter the "good" intentions... Taking Experimental drugs should not be a requirement to have a job.

Most companies agree. However formal approval for Pfizer and Moderna has been applied for. However, medical personnel have a responsibility to protect their patients. Vaccinated have been shown to be far less likely to transmit.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1269209
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronaviru ... 19-vaccine

Link showing unvaccinated are ten times as likely to transmit the virus!
https://news.llu.edu/health-wellness/cd ... d-settings

My relative works in a hospital currently experiencing a coronavirus surge. The vaccinated staff are done with the long hours and few volunteer as the new patients chose not to be vaccinated, so far less sympathy.

The unvaccinated naturally don't want to treat coronavirus patients. So the hospital is assigning employees. To get out of the job the consider age (> 65 exempt), cancer (due to reduced immunity), and pregnancy (again, reduced immunity). Otherwise staff assigned either work coronavirus or will be dismissed for job abandonment. (Not showing up for work.) No consideration of vaccine status except for new moms are also exempt.

The 5th wave has started. It is months away from being significant, but the B.1.617.2 variant puts a lot of unvacvinated in the hospital.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/06 ... -know.html

The risks both ways are known. After a year of rediculously long hours and forced no vacations, the medical staff seem to have a very different attitude. They are too burned out to volunteer. Many want to go back to treating the patients they entered medicine to treat (pediatrics, cancer, cardiac, nephrology).

The next wave will be interesting. I see there is a large community near myself only 22% vaccinated. With the high Ro of B.1.617.2... Interesting times.

https://www.latimes.com/projects/califo ... tribution/

Lightsaber

ps, fascinating discussion with a mortician today. Their staff is so exhausted they are cutting hous locally. First funeral they will schedule is mid-July, for a steep premium. Normal price is wait listed for the fall. Perhaps a vaccine is a good idea?

Fascinating...so the morticians are burned out all the same. Terrible...could have all been avoided.

lightsaber wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Yahoo Finance YouTube

ps, fascinating discussion with a mortician today. Their staff is so exhausted they are cutting hous locally. First funeral they will schedule is mid-July, for a steep premium. Normal price is wait listed for the fall. Perhaps a vaccine is a good idea?

How is a funeral scheduled?

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/92725 ... 8bdbb359f5
On the opening of Olympic, Japanese Prime Minister Suga commented that, it is obvious that the Olympic will not open unless safety and health are being protected, he said he would transmit such condition to the International Olympic Committee, however, on the decision of whether the Olympic will be open, he deferred the questuon by saying he is not the organizer of the Olympic.
And, when the government was being asked about the government coronavirus expert group's comment on the Olympic opening, the Minister of Economic Redevelopment said the expert meeting is not meant to discuss whether the Olympic should be opening, instead the risk consideration i
s said to be "our responsibility"

Delta variant hitting UK and cases and hospitalizations rising.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3YgGJOXoAM ... =4096x4096

Well, the health authority finally put out a warning for the area where my relative works.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... NewsSearch

Erre... Hospital ramped up end of May and now they warn. Barn door... horse.

No new vaccine breakthroughs seem to be happening.

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

Well, the health authority finally put out a warning for the area where my relative works.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... NewsSearch

Erre... Hospital ramped up end of May and now they warn. Barn door... horse.

No new vaccine breakthroughs seem to be happening.

Lightsaber

And a lot of people still don't want their teens vaccinated...surprise surprise. Even with Pfizer's apparent variant effectiveness, it's too late to close the barn door in some areas. The NW of England is looking no better.

cskok8 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Yahoo Finance YouTube

ps, fascinating discussion with a mortician today. Their staff is so exhausted they are cutting hous locally. First funeral they will schedule is mid-July, for a steep premium. Normal price is wait listed for the fall. Perhaps a vaccine is a good idea?

How is a funeral scheduled?

Sadly, I get this duty in the family. One goes to a funeral home, in my case my older relatives all have stated a preference. One presents a copy of the death certificate and then negotiations begin unless pre-planned/paid. You schedule/rent a hall, buy a casket (unless pre-bought), hopefully the plot or cremation was planned. Then you make calls for a priest, armed forces honor guard (if earned) and find six people strong enough to be pall bearers while letting the deceased's elderly friends know the offer is appreciated, but strong backs are required...

The issue is the morticians are exhausted. They and their staff want/need time off. In the case of infectious disease, sometimes cremation is required to prevent transmission.

We've had a surge in deaths and normally funeral homes have a week backlog. Due to coronavirus, they have over 4 weeks planned already, but this is Southbay Los Angeles and anecdotal.

Lightsaber

I'm beginning to observe something in the scientific world. There is a rather stark difference between what epidemiologists seem to say, and what virologists seem to say. Specifically, I've started listening to these virology podcasts, This Week In Virology. They're starting to convince me that maybe the epidemiologists are too alarmist. They tend to get all the headlines in our spectacle-hungry media.

Epidemiologists study how viruses move about in the world. In many senses, it's more like an anthropological study than a biological one. Virologists, on the other hand, are actually directly studying how viruses behave. When I listen to these virologists talk, they sound a lot less panicked about new variants than the epidemiologists. The epidemiologists, with a near absence of hard evidence, jump up and down about how the new variants are 50% or 60% more transmissible, based on the data they are seeing. However, the distribution of a virus is affected by many more factors than just the direct transmissibility of the virus itself. Social factors really come into play. How much are people letting their guard down now? How much are they eating and visiting together in enclosed spaces, outside their family "bubbles"? The virologists point out that a strain can become dominant with only the slightest improvement in transmissibility. In fact, the evidence with influenza virus shows this to be the case. The tiniest of improvements can cause a new variant to become dominant. In reality, the evidence of evolution generally shows that improvements and changes tend to be very small and incremental, and not to happen in leaps and bounds.

I'm really beginning to feel like the media loves the epidemiologists because their tendency is to be alarmist. Politicians also lean towards the epidemiologists because they're trying to look good in the face of the public. Meanwhile the virologists, the people who actually study viruses(!!!), are getting ignored.

I grant you this podcast is long and, at times, pedantic, but hey, this is what scientists are usually like! Particularly, listen to what they have to say about the variants (at 15:00), and what they have to say about the lack of consistency as to what the terms efficacy and effectiveness mean (at about 26:00).

Bottom line, what I get from this is… get your darned vaccines; you'll be well protected, even against the variants. And, relax a little about the variants; the sky is not falling.

https://youtu.be/NGo958fkFz8

Lots of juvenile cases where my relative works coronavirus. There are typos unfortunately in the link (mix of weekly and two week numbers and mix under age 19 and under age 18... oops). 188 under age 19 cases in 2 weeks, 50 age zero through age 9 (day before ten).

https://www.westernslopenow.com/news/lo ... id-19/amp/

Its here... In the schools and I bet less well run areas don't even know they have a problem. When this gets into the big year round schools... yea...

Mesa county had to stand up a pediatric coronavirus ward at the hospital... ummm...

I hope your area is randomly testing kids or you won't know until Delta is well established in your area.

Lightsaber

Aaron747 wrote:

KFTG wrote:

Florida removes all remaining COVID restrictions (links to PDF)
https://floridahealthcovid19.gov/wp-con ... .29.21.pdf

Unbelievably dumb. But then this is the FL state government, so...

I feel sorry for any MD or RN dealing with this in the Sunshine state.

Why is it dumb to terminate Covid-19 restrictions? Those were meant to be in place temporalily anyway. We can't keep our societies locked down forever

Also, had my first Covid-19 test taken today, was negative of course. I'm 30, used to be super healthy before Covid-19 when I was able to go to the gym regularly. Now I have the health like a 60 year old because I haven't been able to go to the gym for half a year.

War is too important to be left to the generals. These were the words of the French President following the slaughter of the Great War 1914-1918

Perhaps it is time to ask if a pandemic is too important to be left to the doctors?

lightsaber wrote:

cskok8 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

How is a funeral scheduled?

Sadly, I get this duty in the family. One goes to a funeral home, in my case my older relatives all have stated a preference. One presents a copy of the death certificate and then negotiations begin unless pre-planned/paid. You schedule/rent a hall, buy a casket (unless pre-bought), hopefully the plot or cremation was planned. Then you make calls for a priest, armed forces honor guard (if earned) and find six people strong enough to be pall bearers while letting the deceased's elderly friends know the offer is appreciated, but strong backs are required...

The issue is the morticians are exhausted. They and their staff want/need time off. In the case of infectious disease, sometimes cremation is required to prevent transmission.

We've had a surge in deaths and normally funeral homes have a week backlog. Due to coronavirus, they have over 4 weeks planned already, but this is Southbay Los Angeles and anecdotal.

Lightsaber

In many cases families are burying deceased family members ASAP even without a service and waiting til after the current pandemic to hold memorial services. Recently one of my elderly friends died. I think she was half vaccinated against COVID-19, but died several days after a bad fall. She willed body to science, so that simplied the issue of what to do with her body. Her family is waiting til later to hold a memorial service. About the same time one of my mother's cousins died, and she was buried quickly with a memorial service to be held later. The wife of my mother's eldest brother actually died of COVID-19. Her remains were quickly shipped out of town to the cemetery where 5 generations of my Mom's family are buried. As with the other cases I have voted, memorial services will be held later

lightsaber wrote:

Lots of juvenile cases where my relative works coronavirus. There are typos unfortunately in the link (mix of weekly and two week numbers and mix under age 19 and under age 18... oops). 188 under age 19 cases in 2 weeks, 50 age zero through age 9 (day before ten).

https://www.westernslopenow.com/news/lo ... id-19/amp/

Its here... In the schools and I bet less well run areas don't even know they have a problem. When this gets into the big year round schools... yea...

Mesa county had to stand up a pediatric coronavirus ward at the hospital... ummm...

I hope your area is randomly testing kids or you won't know until Delta is well established in your area.

Lightsaber

I wonder if an EUA could be issued for vaccinating children in some areas of the US. It's pretty lame to say children don't need to be vaccinated. Maybe the earliest variants of SARS-COV-2 don't affect children very much, but there's no guarantee that future variants won't.