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petertenthije
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Belgian police seizes 27.6 tonnes cocaine in 40 days.

Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:34 pm

A few weeks ago the Dutch and Belgian police managed to decrypt the SkyECC chat service. This chat service was popular among criminals, because it was believed to be well encrypted and secure. The service worked only on specially prepared phones that could be bought for 729€, and that only worked with a subscription of 2200€ per year!

The result: over the past 40 days the Belgian autorities managed to seize 27.6 tonnes (~61k lbs) of cocaine. The street value is around 1.4 billion euro! (yes, that’s billion with a B).

The largest individual seizure was april 3rd when a container with 11 tonnes was seized.


I am surprised that the international media have not picked up on this yet. Here are some Dutch links.

A dutch twitter post by the Belgian federal prosecution service.
https://twitter.com/ParketAntwerpen/sta ... gr%5Etweet

Dutch link with details on the latest seizures
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/4552378 ... -4-miljard

Another dutch site with some details on Sky ECC
https://tweakers.net/nieuws/179512/bedr ... doekt.html
The first thing to remember is always treat your kite like you treat your woman.
Get inside her five times a day and take her to heaven and back!
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LCDFlight
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Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Belgian police seizes 27.6 tonnes cocaine in 40 days.

Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:02 pm

Cool. It would be good if the EU had a death penalty for this. Executions communicate a clear message to drug dealers.
 
scottyraven
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:49 am

Re: Belgian police seizes 27.6 tonnes cocaine in 40 days.

Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:45 am

LCDFlight wrote:
Cool. It would be good if the EU had a death penalty for this. Executions communicate a clear message to drug dealers.

yea, you must be right....states and countries that enforce the death penalty have no drug dealers, importers or users. there are no murders or drug dealers in those states, right?....right?
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 1193
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Belgian police seizes 27.6 tonnes cocaine in 40 days.

Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:58 am

scottyraven wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Cool. It would be good if the EU had a death penalty for this. Executions communicate a clear message to drug dealers.

yea, you must be right....states and countries that enforce the death penalty have no drug dealers, importers or users. there are no murders or drug dealers in those states, right?....right?


I would rephrase it as, countries with a significant use of death penalty for drug crimes have very few drug issues. This is something China does right. Give them a fair trial to assess whether they sold drugs, then within a few weeks, solve the problem (charge the family for the bullet) and move on.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Belgian police seizes 27.6 tonnes cocaine in 40 days.

Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:02 am

LCDFlight wrote:
scottyraven wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Cool. It would be good if the EU had a death penalty for this. Executions communicate a clear message to drug dealers.

yea, you must be right....states and countries that enforce the death penalty have no drug dealers, importers or users. there are no murders or drug dealers in those states, right?....right?


I would rephrase it as, countries with a significant use of death penalty for drug crimes have very few drug issues. This is something China does right. Give them a fair trial to assess whether they sold drugs, then within a few weeks, solve the problem (charge the family for the bullet) and move on.


The trials in China are hardly fair, but yeah let’s use that as the bar :lol:

The actual brouhaha over this in Belgium apparently is the unprecedented use of monitoring of private communications that enabled this bust. But that takes us back to the old Patriot Act adage: if you haven’t done any crime, who cares who’s watching your texts?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
JJJ
Posts: 4105
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Re: Belgian police seizes 27.6 tonnes cocaine in 40 days.

Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:25 am

LCDFlight wrote:
scottyraven wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Cool. It would be good if the EU had a death penalty for this. Executions communicate a clear message to drug dealers.

yea, you must be right....states and countries that enforce the death penalty have no drug dealers, importers or users. there are no murders or drug dealers in those states, right?....right?


I would rephrase it as, countries with a significant use of death penalty for drug crimes have very few drug issues. This is something China does right. Give them a fair trial to assess whether they sold drugs, then within a few weeks, solve the problem (charge the family for the bullet) and move on.


"Fair trial" being the operative word here, but let's look at one of their neighbours. Duterte got the post of President of the Philippines on a heavy anti-drug agenda, using possible the harshest possible measures with an unprecedented death toll.

He still failed, and had to admit it so himself.

Duterte: Drug war failed
PRESIDENT Rodrigo Duterte has admitted his administration’s war on drugs was a failure.
https://www.manilatimes.net/2019/04/04/ ... ed/535127/

So, thousands killed (not an insignificant number found to be innocent later) for basically nothing.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Belgian police seizes 27.6 tonnes cocaine in 40 days.

Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:28 am

Legalize all of it and treat like alcohol. No drugs in the system while driving, at work, etc. Other than that, take as much as you want. If it kills you, well that's fine too. No more hand hiding from the government. You should be able to put whatever you want into your body. But you must live with the consequences.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Belgian police seizes 27.6 tonnes cocaine in 40 days.

Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:37 am

JJJ wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
scottyraven wrote:
yea, you must be right....states and countries that enforce the death penalty have no drug dealers, importers or users. there are no murders or drug dealers in those states, right?....right?


I would rephrase it as, countries with a significant use of death penalty for drug crimes have very few drug issues. This is something China does right. Give them a fair trial to assess whether they sold drugs, then within a few weeks, solve the problem (charge the family for the bullet) and move on.


"Fair trial" being the operative word here, but let's look at one of their neighbours. Duterte got the post of President of the Philippines on a heavy anti-drug agenda, using possible the harshest possible measures with an unprecedented death toll.

He still failed, and had to admit it so himself.

Duterte: Drug war failed
PRESIDENT Rodrigo Duterte has admitted his administration’s war on drugs was a failure.
https://www.manilatimes.net/2019/04/04/ ... ed/535127/

So, thousands killed (not an insignificant number found to be innocent later) for basically nothing.


The Philippines is a dysfunctional country without working institutions. That is more like Syria or Ukraine (or, at best, Mexico, which is not fully functional either). For them to get ambitious with law enforcement is naturally going to be tricky.

I don’t think it is necessary to execute all drug dealers, but major ones, yes, I think it is a good plan, very humane and normal. What is not civilized is to allow the drug mafia to take significant power over the people. I’m not even that against drugs, I am just a fan of logic. There are diverse ideas on this, and one idea is, identify and kill as many drug dealers as you possibly can. And a lot of countries do it with fair success.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Belgian police seizes 27.6 tonnes cocaine in 40 days.

Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:45 am

LCDFlight wrote:
JJJ wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

I would rephrase it as, countries with a significant use of death penalty for drug crimes have very few drug issues. This is something China does right. Give them a fair trial to assess whether they sold drugs, then within a few weeks, solve the problem (charge the family for the bullet) and move on.


"Fair trial" being the operative word here, but let's look at one of their neighbours. Duterte got the post of President of the Philippines on a heavy anti-drug agenda, using possible the harshest possible measures with an unprecedented death toll.

He still failed, and had to admit it so himself.

Duterte: Drug war failed
PRESIDENT Rodrigo Duterte has admitted his administration’s war on drugs was a failure.
https://www.manilatimes.net/2019/04/04/ ... ed/535127/

So, thousands killed (not an insignificant number found to be innocent later) for basically nothing.


The Philippines is a dysfunctional country without working institutions. That is more like Syria or Ukraine (or, at best, Mexico, which is not fully functional either). For them to get ambitious with law enforcement is naturally going to be tricky.

I don’t think it is necessary to execute all drug dealers, but major ones, yes, I think it is a good plan, very humane and normal. What is not civilized is to allow the drug mafia to take significant power over the people. I’m not even that against drugs, I am just a fan of logic. There are diverse ideas on this, and one idea is, identify and kill as many drug dealers as you possibly can. And a lot of countries do it with fair success.


The market is what gives them their power. Seen ‘Narcos’?

As TTail said, legalization is the key to radical disruption of the market. The cartels’ power comes from their ability to dominate pricing.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
JJJ
Posts: 4105
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Belgian police seizes 27.6 tonnes cocaine in 40 days.

Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:33 am

LCDFlight wrote:
JJJ wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

I would rephrase it as, countries with a significant use of death penalty for drug crimes have very few drug issues. This is something China does right. Give them a fair trial to assess whether they sold drugs, then within a few weeks, solve the problem (charge the family for the bullet) and move on.


"Fair trial" being the operative word here, but let's look at one of their neighbours. Duterte got the post of President of the Philippines on a heavy anti-drug agenda, using possible the harshest possible measures with an unprecedented death toll.

He still failed, and had to admit it so himself.

Duterte: Drug war failed
PRESIDENT Rodrigo Duterte has admitted his administration’s war on drugs was a failure.
https://www.manilatimes.net/2019/04/04/ ... ed/535127/

So, thousands killed (not an insignificant number found to be innocent later) for basically nothing.


The Philippines is a dysfunctional country without working institutions.


China is a severely dysfunctional country with a ruthlessly oppressive regime, do you really want it as an example?

And yet, they still have a big drug problem, and plenty of supply (mostly heroin, but meth seems to be gaining momentum).

Ask any expat in China, absolutely no shortage of stuff to snort or smoke. Even with the threat of deporting by merely using (which of course only works if you don't have the proper connections).
 
ltbewr
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Re: Belgian police seizes 27.6 tonnes cocaine in 40 days.

Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:25 pm

Criminals will always be a step ahead of law enforcement in technology, weapons and how they do their criminal acts.
 
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Pellegrine
Posts: 2670
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Re: Belgian police seizes 27.6 tonnes cocaine in 40 days.

Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:54 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Legalize all of it and treat like alcohol. No drugs in the system while driving, at work, etc. Other than that, take as much as you want. If it kills you, well that's fine too. No more hand hiding from the government. You should be able to put whatever you want into your body. But you must live with the consequences.


Mostly agreed. There are some drugs that are just to dangerous to be allowed to freely circulate though (fentanyl and its analogues, scopolamine, carfentanil, etorphine...).

People think coke, heroin, and oxycodone are so bad, more people die today from fentanyl than they ever did from heroin in the 90s and 00s.

Cocaine is really just a strong stimulant, so users have to not be gluttons.

And also cocaine formulations and methamphetamine can be prescribed by doctors today in the US.

Alcohol abuse kills more people than all other drugs combined in many jurisdictions.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 613
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Belgian police seizes 27.6 tonnes cocaine in 40 days.

Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:32 am

LCDFlight wrote:
I would rephrase it as, countries with a significant use of death penalty for drug crimes have very few drug issues. This is something China does right. Give them a fair trial to assess whether they sold drugs, then within a few weeks, solve the problem (charge the family for the bullet) and move on.


Or you could look at Portugal where they decriminalised all drugs and had massive falls in overdose deaths, needle sharing, incarceration rates and drug related crime.

The state really shouldn’t tell individuals what to put in their bodies. I can understand regulation of dangerous substances like meth but for cannabis, ecstasy, even cocaine? Most people will use them recreationally to get a high and not become addicted or be a danger to society. Just like how most people who drink alcohol don’t become alcoholics.

If there are people who develop an addiction to any drug, whether it be alcohol, cannabis or cocaine that negatively affects their life then it must be treated as a medical issue by health professionals not as a crime by law enforcement.

The whole “war on drugs” was just started as a way to neuter the hippie counterculture movement of the 60s that threatened the establishment at the time.

Alcohol abuse kills more people than all other drugs combined in many jurisdictions.


Absolutely. I wonder how many of these “tough on drugs” politicians are also massive alcohol drinkers who may even be alcoholics? A lot of them I believe.
 
WIederling
Posts: 10043
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Belgian police seizes 27.6 tonnes cocaine in 40 days.

Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:22 pm

JJJ wrote:
Duterte: Drug war failed
PRESIDENT Rodrigo Duterte has admitted his administration’s war on drugs was a failure.
https://www.manilatimes.net/2019/04/04/ ... ed/535127/

So, thousands killed (not an insignificant number found to be innocent later) for basically nothing.


The Taliban depressed the opium harvest to nearly zero in 2001
Image
yaxis : hectares poppy cultivation. source Wikimedia
Next thing they were attacked for supposedly hosting Bin Laden.
"Ein Schelm wer böses dabei denkt."

and anyway kind of a Pyrrus Victory:
"Learning Lessons from the Taliban Opium Ban"
https://www.tni.org/es/node/12050
Murphy is an optimist

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