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Kiwirob
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Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:10 am

Hot off last weeks massacre we have new one this week.

Former NFL player kills five in US mass shooting

Former NFL player Phillip Adams killed five people - including a prominent doctor, his wife and their two young grandchildren - at the physician's South Carolina home before taking his own life in his own family's home nearby.
Investigators believe Adams, 32, forced his way into Dr Robert Lesslie's home in Rock Hill yesterday and shot Dr Lesslie, his wife and the two grandchildren in a room, as well as two air conditioning technicians outside, York County Sheriff Kevin Tolson said.
Killed were Dr Lesslie, his wife Barbara Lesslie, two grandchildren ages five and nine, and air conditioning technician James Lewis, of Gastonia, North Carolina, authorities said.

The surviving technician - who contacted his employer and said he'd been shot, moving the employer to call 911 - was in critical condition at a hospital as of this morning, Mr Tolson said.
Investigators do not yet know what led to the shootings, though they believe Adams was the only assailant, Mr Tolson said.
"There's nothing about this right now that makes sense to any of us," the sheriff said.


https://www.9news.com.au/world/phillip- ... fc081209e3
Last edited by qf789 on Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: clickbait title
 
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Aesma
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Re: That Didn't Take Long

Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:19 am

He was probably having a bad day.

Thoughts and prayers.

Too bad the victims weren't carrying.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: That Didn't Take Long

Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:59 am

Just another day in the United States.

Where's the outrage at the two young kids? I couldn't imagine much else being more horrific.
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
ltbewr
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Re: That Didn't Take Long

Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:47 am

It is believed the alleged killer had ongoing mental health issues. He was a former NFL player so it is possible he had deep brain injuries and using drugs for his injuries from his playing day as possible contributors to his mental condition. Still he had access to a gun despite his mental condition and used it to commit murder and kill himself. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/fo ... d=msedgdhp
 
art
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:33 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Hot off last weeks massacre we have new one this week.

https://www.9news.com.au/world/phillip- ... fc081209e3


It will go on and on until something is done. Sadly there is no sign that anything will be done.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:49 pm

art wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Hot off last weeks massacre we have new one this week.

https://www.9news.com.au/world/phillip- ... fc081209e3


It will go on and on until something is done. Sadly there is no sign that anything will be done.


That's because our society is still too immature to have the necessary discussions. Disgusting.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
T4thH
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:06 pm

Sorry to say, but do we have to spam the Non-Aviation thread with every "mass shooting" in the USA? Can we not put them all in one thread "US-mass shooting 2021"".
Something like 55 rounded die in the USA every single day by guns, more than 100 are wounded, so WTF cares, when 5 are killed? It will have no statistic importance, no one will even be able to see a little peak in the statistic, these 5 will just disappear in the masses who die or are wounded every single day by guns.

I am fine, if someone will have killed something like half of the regular death rate per day at once, but else, no own thread is needed.
This is my opinion.

In German:
https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/579175/umfrage/vorfaelle-und-todesfaelle-durch-schusswaffen-in-den-usa/
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:49 pm

T4thH wrote:
Sorry to say, but do we have to spam the Non-Aviation thread with every "mass shooting" in the USA? Can we not put them all in one thread "US-mass shooting 2021"".
Something like 55 rounded die in the USA every single day by guns, more than 100 are wounded, so WTF cares, when 5 are killed? It will have no statistic importance, no one will even be able to see a little peak in the statistic, these 5 will just disappear in the masses who die or are wounded every single day by guns.

I am fine, if someone will have killed something like half of the regular death rate per day at once, but else, no own thread is needed.
This is my opinion.

In German:
https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/579175/umfrage/vorfaelle-und-todesfaelle-durch-schusswaffen-in-den-usa/


We’ve been discussing mass shootings for over a decade, if you’re not interested don’t follow.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:09 pm

Looks like mental illness and some serious issues to examine. The NRA will go silent for awhile and then gear back up.


The HVAC worker, the Grandkids, the Doctor and his wife were all killed. One HVAC technician still is in the hospital.

https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/crime ... d04f0cbcfd

Six are dead since the shooter shot himself.

We got more information about Lewis from his father, Thomas Lewis. He told us his only son was a dedicated dad.

"He was very close to his kids. He was doing a great job," said Thomas Lewis. "They are going to miss him. The oldest is 16, and the twins will be 13 soon."

Thomas Lewis says his son loved his work with GSM and was working to advancing his career; James was attending night school to earn his degree. Now, the elder Lewis is left with more questions than answers. Chief among them: why so many people had to die.

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
NIKV69
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:09 pm

The title of this thread is not correct. It isn't a mass shooting. CNN is using this tactic of now calling all gun crime a mass shooting. It was a murder suicide and I would wait for the facts to come out I bet it wasn't random.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:13 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
The title of this thread is not correct. It isn't a mass shooting. CNN is using this tactic of now calling all gun crime a mass shooting. It was a murder suicide and I would wait for the facts to come out I bet it wasn't random.



Explain why Children and the HVAC employees were killed.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
NIKV69
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:25 pm

casinterest wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
The title of this thread is not correct. It isn't a mass shooting. CNN is using this tactic of now calling all gun crime a mass shooting. It was a murder suicide and I would wait for the facts to come out I bet it wasn't random.



Explain why Children and the HVAC employees were killed.


Deflection? When people snap bystanders sometimes are killed. I am guessing it's something along the lines of the Fedex judge thing. Funny how this wasn't called a mass shooting.

https://www.fox13news.com/news/fbi-fede ... dex-driver

It isn't a mass shooting. Even if CNN calls it one. It's gun crime.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:33 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
The title of this thread is not correct. It isn't a mass shooting. CNN is using this tactic of now calling all gun crime a mass shooting. It was a murder suicide and I would wait for the facts to come out I bet it wasn't random.



Explain why Children and the HVAC employees were killed.


Deflection? When people snap bystanders sometimes are killed. I am guessing it's something along the lines of the Fedex judge thing. Funny how this wasn't called a mass shooting.

https://www.fox13news.com/news/fbi-fede ... dex-driver

It isn't a mass shooting. Even if CNN calls it one. It's gun crime.


It's a mass shooting.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43004.pdf

There is no broadly agreed-to, specific conceptualization of this issue, so this report uses its own
definition for public mass shootings. These are incidents occurring in relatively public places,
involving four or more deaths—not including the shooter(s)—and gunmen who select victims
somewhat indiscriminately. The violence in these cases is not a means to an end—the gunmen do
not pursue criminal profit or kill in the name of terrorist ideologies, for example.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
johns624
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Re: That Didn't Take Long

Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:03 pm

ltbewr wrote:
It is believed the alleged killer had ongoing mental health issues. He was a former NFL player so it is possible he had deep brain injuries and using drugs for his injuries from his playing day as possible contributors to his mental condition. Still he had access to a gun despite his mental condition and used it to commit murder and kill himself. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/fo ... d=msedgdhp
So he broke the law?
 
johns624
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:15 pm

casinterest wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:


Explain why Children and the HVAC employees were killed.


Deflection? When people snap bystanders sometimes are killed. I am guessing it's something along the lines of the Fedex judge thing. Funny how this wasn't called a mass shooting.

https://www.fox13news.com/news/fbi-fede ... dex-driver

It isn't a mass shooting. Even if CNN calls it one. It's gun crime.


It's a mass shooting.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43004.pdf

There is no broadly agreed-to, specific conceptualization of this issue, so this report uses its own
definition for public mass shootings. These are incidents occurring in relatively public places,
involving four or more deaths—not including the shooter(s)—and gunmen who select victims
somewhat indiscriminately. The violence in these cases is not a means to an end—the gunmen do
not pursue criminal profit or kill in the name of terrorist ideologies, for example.
By your own definition, this wasn't a mass shooting since it wasn't in a "relatively public place". If he had gone to the hospital or urgent care to kill the doctor, then I would agree.
What I find "interesting" is the killings by NFL or former players. It's a relatively tiny segment of the population, yet there are 5 incidents that I can think of. Ray Lewis, Aaron Hernandez, Ray Carruth, this guy and Travis Rudolph. Say NO to football...
 
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casinterest
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:32 pm

johns624 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

Deflection? When people snap bystanders sometimes are killed. I am guessing it's something along the lines of the Fedex judge thing. Funny how this wasn't called a mass shooting.

https://www.fox13news.com/news/fbi-fede ... dex-driver

It isn't a mass shooting. Even if CNN calls it one. It's gun crime.


It's a mass shooting.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43004.pdf

There is no broadly agreed-to, specific conceptualization of this issue, so this report uses its own
definition for public mass shootings. These are incidents occurring in relatively public places,
involving four or more deaths—not including the shooter(s)—and gunmen who select victims
somewhat indiscriminately. The violence in these cases is not a means to an end—the gunmen do
not pursue criminal profit or kill in the name of terrorist ideologies, for example.
By your own definition, this wasn't a mass shooting since it wasn't in a "relatively public place". If he had gone to the hospital or urgent care to kill the doctor, then I would agree.
What I find "interesting" is the killings by NFL or former players. It's a relatively tiny segment of the population, yet there are 5 incidents that I can think of. Ray Lewis, Aaron Hernandez, Ray Carruth, this guy and Travis Rudolph. Say NO to football...


It was relatively public as it was at a person's house and there were Public people there doing services that were shot. The murders and suicide also occurred at separate locations.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:40 pm

R.I.P all souls.

Until the gun culture changes we will be here again and again.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
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bennett123
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:44 pm

Rinse and repeat.

More thoughts and prayers.
 
johns624
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:13 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Rinse and repeat.

More thoughts and prayers.
The same to you over your NI religious problems. I'm sure they'll be getting worse and worse. Maybe we should deploy our military in the streets? That worked out really well for you folks. I almost understand killing over drug turf, but over religion? It's almost like it's 3rd World!
 
ltbewr
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:04 pm

Philips Adams brain to be examined for signs of CTE https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/312 ... amined-cte
CTE, from multiple concussions damaging his brain may be a factor that led to his mental health problems and sadly to his acts of murder and suicide. All the more reason we need families and friends to keep guns away from persons with certain mental health problems.
 
WIederling
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:27 am

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
The title of this thread is not correct. It isn't a mass shooting. CNN is using this tactic of now calling all gun crime a mass shooting. It was a murder suicide and I would wait for the facts to come out I bet it wasn't random.



Explain why Children and the HVAC employees were killed.


Deflection? When people snap bystanders sometimes are killed. I am guessing it's something along the lines of the Fedex judge thing. Funny how this wasn't called a mass shooting.

https://www.fox13news.com/news/fbi-fede ... dex-driver

It isn't a mass shooting. Even if CNN calls it one. It's gun crime.


If someone takes weapons to kill people more or less indiscriminately only stopped by lack of ammunition or
and/by others IT is a "Mass Killing".

* not an accident.
* No direct connection/relation between perpetrator and victims.
( llike "I hate you Jon Doe", "I want your bankroll", "Your wife loves me and not you".)
Murphy is an optimist
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:59 pm

$1 it's CTE + guns.

At least we've sorta come 'round on being able to talk about CTE.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
afcjets
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Re: That Didn't Take Long

Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:52 pm

Aesma wrote:

Too bad the victims weren't carrying.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

They odds more if not all of them would still be alive would be high.
 
Flaps
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:27 am

readytotaxi wrote:
R.I.P all souls.

Until the gun culture changes we will be here again and again.

It's not a "gun culture" issue. It's a mental health issue and it wasn't random. The doctor had stopped providing medication to the shooter and he snapped. The kids and the HVAC crew were quite unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:02 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
$1 it's CTE + guns.

At least we've sorta come 'round on being able to talk about CTE.


I was hoping after Junior Seau we would but boy did the NFL squash that.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
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seb146
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:29 pm

Flaps wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
R.I.P all souls.

Until the gun culture changes we will be here again and again.

It's not a "gun culture" issue. It's a mental health issue and it wasn't random. The doctor had stopped providing medication to the shooter and he snapped. The kids and the HVAC crew were quite unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time.


It is a combination of ease of access to guns as well as not treating mental health issues.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
wingman
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:53 pm

Flaps wrote:
It's not a "gun culture" issue. It's a mental health issue and it wasn't random. The doctor had stopped providing medication to the shooter and he snapped. The kids and the HVAC crew were quite unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time.


This is incorrect according to the simplest logic. Mental health issues exist in every country and yet this is the only one where such regular mass death by firearms exists, at least in a nation not presently engaged in military conflict. It's the guns, and it's a gun culture that advocates against stronger regulation around who should be allowed to buy weapons, the kinds of weapons they can buy and the complete lack of any national training and licensing requirement (a feature of all other advanced nations with significant hunting and gun cultures). American "gun culture" foments exactly what happened here.

It's very difficult to understand why Americans are unwilling to make the smallest sacrifice in order to stem gun deaths and mass shootings. The answer always seems to be "more guns is the only solution". A typical person in this solution category posits that if more people had been carrying there wouldn't have been so many dead. Taken to it's logical conclusion, these people would think it entirely sane to see an HVAC technician roll up to their property with the normal tools and proceed to have a partner set up a temporary machine gun emplacement to provide cover while the technician changed out the condenser module. Until defective genetics are leeched from the gene pool the best we can do is think and pray.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: That Didn't Take Long

Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:14 pm

afcjets wrote:
Aesma wrote:

Too bad the victims weren't carrying.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

They odds more if not all of them would still be alive would be high.

The odds are near zero.

Flaps wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
R.I.P all souls.

Until the gun culture changes we will be here again and again.

It's not a "gun culture" issue. It's a mental health issue and it wasn't random. The doctor had stopped providing medication to the shooter and he snapped. The kids and the HVAC crew were quite unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It's both. And the former should not have access to the latter, but even though that's obvious it's also sacrilege to the NRA. Lapierre would have to comfort himself on a yacht in international waters again. :roll:
I don't take responsibility at all
 
afcjets
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Re: That Didn't Take Long

Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:34 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Too bad the victims weren't carrying.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

They odds more if not all of them would still be alive would be high.

The odds are near zero.



Name one mass shooting where someone was carrying a concealed weapon and it didn't stop the shooter in their tracks before law enforcement arrived.
 
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casinterest
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Re: That Didn't Take Long

Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:07 pm

afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

They odds more if not all of them would still be alive would be high.

The odds are near zero.



Name one mass shooting where someone was carrying a concealed weapon and it didn't stop the shooter in their tracks before law enforcement arrived.


So everyone has to wear a gun to be safe? That is like asking everyone to take birth control in case they are raped.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
petertenthije
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Re: That Didn't Take Long

Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:13 pm

casinterest wrote:
afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
The odds are near zero.



Name one mass shooting where someone was carrying a concealed weapon and it didn't stop the shooter in their tracks before law enforcement arrived.


So everyone has to wear a gun to be safe? That is like asking everyone to take birth control in case they are raped.
But people won't be raped when they are carrying a gun.

NRA logic for you. ;)
The first thing to remember is always treat your kite like you treat your woman.
Get inside her five times a day and take her to heaven and back!
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MaverickM11
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Re: That Didn't Take Long

Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:37 pm

afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

They odds more if not all of them would still be alive would be high.

The odds are near zero.



Name one mass shooting where someone was carrying a concealed weapon and it didn't stop the shooter in their tracks before law enforcement arrived.

Ummm...that's on you to name one. You made the claim.

There have been plenty of studies that show that concealed carry does nothing for gun violence. It usually makes it worse:

"Emma Fridel, an assistant professor at Florida State University who authored the study, measured the affects of gun ownership rates and concealed-carry laws in all 50 states from 1991 to 2016. She controlled for other factors that might influence mass shooting and homicide rates, like unemployment rates, poverty levels and states' mental health expenditures.

Her findings show that looser concealed-carry laws had little impact on mass shootings and increased a state's gun homicide rate by 11%. Higher rates of firearm ownership overall, meanwhile, was associated with a 53.5% increase in the likelihood of a mass shooting."

https://www.businessinsider.com/gun-con ... ngs-2020-7
I don't take responsibility at all
 
Bostrom
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:18 pm

johns624 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Rinse and repeat.

More thoughts and prayers.
The same to you over your NI religious problems. I'm sure they'll be getting worse and worse. Maybe we should deploy our military in the streets? That worked out really well for you folks. I almost understand killing over drug turf, but over religion? It's almost like it's 3rd World!


The conflict in Northern Ireland is not about religion.
 
afcjets
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Re: That Didn't Take Long

Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:58 pm

casinterest wrote:
So everyone has to wear a gun to be safe? That is like asking everyone to take birth control in case they are raped.


I don't carry a gun myself but I hope to God there is a good guy with a gun if I am ever in shooting range of a mass shooter. But I'm not asking for anyone to do anything.
Last edited by afcjets on Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
afcjets
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Re: That Didn't Take Long

Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:01 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
The odds are near zero.

Name one mass shooting where someone was carrying a concealed weapon and it didn't stop the shooter in their tracks before law enforcement arrived.

Ummm...that's on you to name one. You made the claim.gun violence. It usually makes it worse:


The point is I doubt there is one.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: That Didn't Take Long

Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:24 pm

afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Name one mass shooting where someone was carrying a concealed weapon and it didn't stop the shooter in their tracks before law enforcement arrived.

Ummm...that's on you to name one. You made the claim.gun violence. It usually makes it worse:


The point is I doubt there is one.

Wut. It happens all the time. IE it's incredibly rare that the 'good guy with a gun' nonsense actually works. Mass shootings have gotten deadlier in lock step with more guns, and laxer gun laws. The good guy with a gun has been MIA.

https://time.com/5644578/good-guys-with ... so-dayton/
I don't take responsibility at all
 
johns624
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:15 pm

Bostrom wrote:
johns624 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Rinse and repeat.

More thoughts and prayers.
The same to you over your NI religious problems. I'm sure they'll be getting worse and worse. Maybe we should deploy our military in the streets? That worked out really well for you folks. I almost understand killing over drug turf, but over religion? It's almost like it's 3rd World!


The conflict in Northern Ireland is not about religion.
It is. if you want to simplify it. Just like gun violence in the US isn't about guns, it's mainly about drugs.
 
johns624
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Re: That Didn't Take Long

Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:19 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Ummm...that's on you to name one. You made the claim.gun violence. It usually makes it worse:


The point is I doubt there is one.

Wut. It happens all the time. IE it's incredibly rare that the 'good guy with a gun' nonsense actually works. Mass shootings have gotten deadlier in lock step with more guns, and laxer gun laws. The good guy with a gun has been MIA.

https://time.com/5644578/good-guys-with ... so-dayton/

Here's two...
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/man-w ... r/2290236/
https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-church ... ss-shooter
The problem with "stopped mass shootings" is that if the bad guy is stopped before he shoots a lot of people, then it's not a mass shooting. In other words, you can't prove a negative.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: That Didn't Take Long

Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:53 am

johns624 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:

The point is I doubt there is one.

Wut. It happens all the time. IE it's incredibly rare that the 'good guy with a gun' nonsense actually works. Mass shootings have gotten deadlier in lock step with more guns, and laxer gun laws. The good guy with a gun has been MIA.

https://time.com/5644578/good-guys-with ... so-dayton/

Here's two...
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/man-w ... r/2290236/
https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-church ... ss-shooter
The problem with "stopped mass shootings" is that if the bad guy is stopped before he shoots a lot of people, then it's not a mass shooting. In other words, you can't prove a negative.


If the ‘good guy with a gun’ narrative held weight, then the countries with the most guns would also have fewer mass shootings. As is quite evident, mass shootings are far more common in the US than other developed countries, so it’s clear that the good guys with guns are not alleviating the problem.
 
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seb146
Posts: 23587
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:42 am

johns624 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:

The point is I doubt there is one.

Wut. It happens all the time. IE it's incredibly rare that the 'good guy with a gun' nonsense actually works. Mass shootings have gotten deadlier in lock step with more guns, and laxer gun laws. The good guy with a gun has been MIA.

https://time.com/5644578/good-guys-with ... so-dayton/

Here's two...
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/man-w ... r/2290236/
https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-church ... ss-shooter
The problem with "stopped mass shootings" is that if the bad guy is stopped before he shoots a lot of people, then it's not a mass shooting. In other words, you can't prove a negative.


ummm... that's the same guy so it is one.

How many mass shootings did we have in Texas where there was literally NO "good guy with a gun"? Where was the "good guy with a gun" in El Paso? Or Bryan? Or Odessa? Or Waco 2015? Or the other Texas church mass shooting?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
extender
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:40 am

readytotaxi wrote:
Until the gun culture changes we will be here again and again.


There is no value on life. There is no respect for anything; namely law and life.

The gun culture has always been there, the moral decline has not. The moral decline has accelerated and keeps picking up speed.

It is too easy for many to blame the gun, and not dig deeper into the root cause.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18628
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:19 pm

johns624 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:

The point is I doubt there is one.

Wut. It happens all the time. IE it's incredibly rare that the 'good guy with a gun' nonsense actually works. Mass shootings have gotten deadlier in lock step with more guns, and laxer gun laws. The good guy with a gun has been MIA.

https://time.com/5644578/good-guys-with ... so-dayton/

Here's two...
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/man-w ... r/2290236/
https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-church ... ss-shooter
The problem with "stopped mass shootings" is that if the bad guy is stopped before he shoots a lot of people, then it's not a mass shooting. In other words, you can't prove a negative.

I didn't say it does not happen--I said the odds of it happening are near zero. And plenty of gun attacks have been stopped by unarmed citizens.

extender wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Until the gun culture changes we will be here again and again.


There is no value on life. There is no respect for anything; namely law and life.

The gun culture has always been there, the moral decline has not. The moral decline has accelerated and keeps picking up speed.

It is too easy for many to blame the gun, and not dig deeper into the root cause.

Agreed--the party of Trump/Gaetz/Cruz has absolutely no morals or ethics, and can't be bothered to give a toss about 600K Covid deaths--why would conservatives even blink at 30K gun deaths when there's money to be made off those corpses? Just like white Jesus did in the bible they never read. #praiseHim
I don't take responsibility at all
 
johns624
Posts: 3663
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:25 pm

seb146 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Wut. It happens all the time. IE it's incredibly rare that the 'good guy with a gun' nonsense actually works. Mass shootings have gotten deadlier in lock step with more guns, and laxer gun laws. The good guy with a gun has been MIA.

https://time.com/5644578/good-guys-with ... so-dayton/

Here's two...
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/man-w ... r/2290236/
https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-church ... ss-shooter
The problem with "stopped mass shootings" is that if the bad guy is stopped before he shoots a lot of people, then it's not a mass shooting. In other words, you can't prove a negative.


ummm... that's the same guy so it is one.

How many mass shootings did we have in Texas where there was literally NO "good guy with a gun"? Where was the "good guy with a gun" in El Paso? Or Bryan? Or Odessa? Or Waco 2015? Or the other Texas church mass shooting?
Duh, no it's not. The first was about an armed parishioner who stopped a shooting inside and the second is about a neighbor who wounded a shooter before he could get into his truck and go do more damage. If you bothered to scroll down in the second article, it gave a few more examples. Nobody says that the good guy can stop every shooter, there might not be any there. It's not like they're on duty and have to protect a certain area. Many mass shootings happen in areas that are off limits to armed civilians, like schools, churches (without the pastor's written permission), entertainment venues, bars. Maybe that's why so many happen in those places?
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18628
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:28 pm

johns624 wrote:
Many mass shootings happen in areas that are off limits to armed civilians, like schools, churches (without the pastor's written permission), entertainment venues, bars. Maybe that's why so many happen in those places?

This is absolute fantasy and nonsense and easily disproven by the entire continents of Europe and Australia :roll:
I don't take responsibility at all
 
johns624
Posts: 3663
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:38 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Many mass shootings happen in areas that are off limits to armed civilians, like schools, churches (without the pastor's written permission), entertainment venues, bars. Maybe that's why so many happen in those places?

This is absolute fantasy and nonsense and easily disproven by the entire continents of Europe and Australia :roll:
Except that we're not talking about Australia or Europe. How is it a fantasy? That is where many shootings occur. Sandy Hook-school. Columbine-school. Aurora-movie theater. Marjorie Stoneman-school. VA Tech-school. San Bernardino & Orange-no civilian CCW. Dylann Roof-church. Etc, etc.
 
extender
Posts: 835
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 am

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:54 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Agreed--the party of Trump/Gaetz/Cruz has absolutely no morals or ethics, and can't be bothered to give a toss about 600K Covid deaths--why would conservatives even blink at 30K gun deaths when there's money to be made off those corpses? Just like white Jesus did in the bible they never read. #praiseHim


So much for a rational debate. Trump/Gaetz/Cruz didn't do jack. Cuomo much? You brought it up, so deal with it.

We're on the slippery slope, and all this woke, not-responsible for my actions, is only going to make it worse.
 
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MrHMSH
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:32 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:20 pm

johns624 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Many mass shootings happen in areas that are off limits to armed civilians, like schools, churches (without the pastor's written permission), entertainment venues, bars. Maybe that's why so many happen in those places?

This is absolute fantasy and nonsense and easily disproven by the entire continents of Europe and Australia :roll:
Except that we're not talking about Australia or Europe. How is it a fantasy? That is where many shootings occur. Sandy Hook-school. Columbine-school. Aurora-movie theater. Marjorie Stoneman-school. VA Tech-school. San Bernardino & Orange-no civilian CCW. Dylann Roof-church. Etc, etc.


If your mantra is that the 'good guy with a gun' is the most effective solution, then evidence of where guns are tightly regulated with demonstrated success is hardly irrelevant. There are 300+ mass shootings every year, where's the 'good guy' for all of them? If it's safer, there should be far fewer than places with tighter regulations.
 
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seb146
Posts: 23587
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:00 pm

johns624 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Here's two...
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/man-w ... r/2290236/
https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-church ... ss-shooter
The problem with "stopped mass shootings" is that if the bad guy is stopped before he shoots a lot of people, then it's not a mass shooting. In other words, you can't prove a negative.


ummm... that's the same guy so it is one.

How many mass shootings did we have in Texas where there was literally NO "good guy with a gun"? Where was the "good guy with a gun" in El Paso? Or Bryan? Or Odessa? Or Waco 2015? Or the other Texas church mass shooting?
Duh, no it's not. The first was about an armed parishioner who stopped a shooting inside and the second is about a neighbor who wounded a shooter before he could get into his truck and go do more damage. If you bothered to scroll down in the second article, it gave a few more examples. Nobody says that the good guy can stop every shooter, there might not be any there. It's not like they're on duty and have to protect a certain area. Many mass shootings happen in areas that are off limits to armed civilians, like schools, churches (without the pastor's written permission), entertainment venues, bars. Maybe that's why so many happen in those places?


So more guns would be better? We already know from the Aurora shooting that opening fire would have resulted in even more deaths since everyone agreed they had no idea where the gunman was because of echoes.

Guns are not allowed in many work places and schools and churches, so LET'S ENFORCE LAWS ALREADY ON THE BOOKS!!! That is what we keep hearing from gun fanatics. But, when those laws are actually enforced, those same people say "NO!!! DO NOT TAKE OUR RIGHTS AWAY!!!" So, which is it? More guns everywhere is not the answer as we have seen in Georgia and Texas. Not enforcing current laws is not the answer as we have seen in Colorado and California.

How about we stop listening to gun fanatics and NRA and try something else. All lives matter, right?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 883
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:11 pm

afcjets wrote:
Aesma wrote:

Too bad the victims weren't carrying.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

They odds more if not all of them would still be alive would be high.

Ah the good guys with guns with save us all logic. But tons of Americans have access to guns how come they didn't stop the shooting and murders around the country? I too can easily access a gun as well.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18628
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:21 pm

extender wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Agreed--the party of Trump/Gaetz/Cruz has absolutely no morals or ethics, and can't be bothered to give a toss about 600K Covid deaths--why would conservatives even blink at 30K gun deaths when there's money to be made off those corpses? Just like white Jesus did in the bible they never read. #praiseHim


So much for a rational debate. Trump/Gaetz/Cruz didn't do jack.

That's not true. He promoted quack cures and the demon semen doctor.

extender wrote:
Cuomo much? You brought it up, so deal with it.


Cuomo did a terrible job, and is a sexual predator, two things everyone and their mother on the left have called on him to resign for. The right, on the other hand, sees those two things as assets. That said, the Northeast was also the first to be hit with a massive spike in cases, and it's incredibly dense in places like NYC. Meanwhile in South Dakota, months later, and with a population density 1/100th that of the Northeast, GOP superstar Kristi Noem is killing her citizens almost as quickly as NY. That's just conservative values in action. See also Bolsonaro's Brazil genocide.

extender wrote:
We're on the slippery slope, and all this woke, not-responsible for my actions, is only going to make it worse.

What does any of that have to do with gun violence? And when has Trump ever taken responsibility for a mistake in his life? Name one time. Any time. To support Trump and whine about accountability is like the Menendez brothers whining about being orphans.

MrHMSH wrote:
johns624 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
This is absolute fantasy and nonsense and easily disproven by the entire continents of Europe and Australia :roll:
Except that we're not talking about Australia or Europe. How is it a fantasy? That is where many shootings occur. Sandy Hook-school. Columbine-school. Aurora-movie theater. Marjorie Stoneman-school. VA Tech-school. San Bernardino & Orange-no civilian CCW. Dylann Roof-church. Etc, etc.


If your mantra is that the 'good guy with a gun' is the most effective solution, then evidence of where guns are tightly regulated with demonstrated success is hardly irrelevant. There are 300+ mass shootings every year, where's the 'good guy' for all of them? If it's safer, there should be far fewer than places with tighter regulations.

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: There are more 'good guys with guns' than ever supposedly, and also more mass shootings than ever.
I don't take responsibility at all

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