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johns624
Posts: 3628
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:29 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Aesma wrote:

Too bad the victims weren't carrying.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

They odds more if not all of them would still be alive would be high.

Ah the good guys with guns with save us all logic. But tons of Americans have access to guns how come they didn't stop the shooting and murders around the country? I too can easily access a gun as well.

Good guys with guns just don't magically appear. They are just ordinary, everyday people. The great majority of gun owners don't have carry permits or don't carry on a regular basis if they do.
 
N583JB
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:42 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Aesma wrote:

Too bad the victims weren't carrying.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

They odds more if not all of them would still be alive would be high.

Ah the good guys with guns with save us all logic. But tons of Americans have access to guns how come they didn't stop the shooting and murders around the country? I too can easily access a gun as well.


Murders that are prevented generally don't make the news.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 874
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:20 pm

N583JB wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
afcjets wrote:

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

They odds more if not all of them would still be alive would be high.

Ah the good guys with guns with save us all logic. But tons of Americans have access to guns how come they didn't stop the shooting and murders around the country? I too can easily access a gun as well.


Murders that are prevented generally don't make the news.

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/act ... ation=true

Out of the 50 active shooter events, 10 shooter events successfully interrupted the shooter. 6 had guns 4 didn't. So that take information as you will.
I'm sure having firearms on a plane could have stopped 9/11 with that logic :roll:
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18612
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:34 pm

N583JB wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
afcjets wrote:

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

They odds more if not all of them would still be alive would be high.

Ah the good guys with guns with save us all logic. But tons of Americans have access to guns how come they didn't stop the shooting and murders around the country? I too can easily access a gun as well.


Murders that are prevented generally don't make the news.

Of course they would. The reason you never see them is because the whole concept is fake news.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
afcjets
Posts: 3667
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:36 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Aesma wrote:

Too bad the victims weren't carrying.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

They odds more if not all of them would still be alive would be high.

Ah the good guys with guns with save us all logic. But tons of Americans have access to guns how come they didn't stop the shooting and murders around the country? I too can easily access a gun as well.

There weren't any obviously at the places you heard about on the news.
 
N583JB
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:44 pm

A gunman walked into a school in Knoxville and was confronted by an armed school resource officer. Shots were exchanged and the gunman was killed. Looks like the "good guy with a gun" just saved a bunch of kids.
 
johns624
Posts: 3628
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:11 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
N583JB wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
Ah the good guys with guns with save us all logic. But tons of Americans have access to guns how come they didn't stop the shooting and murders around the country? I too can easily access a gun as well.


Murders that are prevented generally don't make the news.

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/act ... ation=true

Out of the 50 active shooter events, 10 shooter events successfully interrupted the shooter. 6 had guns 4 didn't. So that take information as you will.
I'm sure having firearms on a plane could have stopped 9/11 with that logic :roll:
So 20% of mass shootings were stopped by civilians and that isn't good enough for you? What would you have done in that situation, cower? How many lives did they save? You do know the police can't be everywhere and have no duty to protect you, don't you?
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18612
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:01 am

johns624 wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
N583JB wrote:

Murders that are prevented generally don't make the news.

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/act ... ation=true

Out of the 50 active shooter events, 10 shooter events successfully interrupted the shooter. 6 had guns 4 didn't. So that take information as you will.
I'm sure having firearms on a plane could have stopped 9/11 with that logic :roll:
So 20% of mass shootings were stopped by civilians and that isn't good enough for you? What would you have done in that situation, cower? How many lives did they save? You do know the police can't be everywhere and have no duty to protect you, don't you?

12% in this example. On what planet is a 88% failure rate "good enough"?

johns624 wrote:
What would you have done in that situation, cower? How many lives did they save? You do know the police can't be everywhere and have no duty to protect you, don't you?

The nation literally trains children in school to run, hide, and fight if the first two options are not possible.

johns624 wrote:
You do know the police can't be everywhere and have no duty to protect you, don't you?

What strange little world do you live in? Is "to protect and serve" a hollow motto? Like blue lives matter or thoughts 'n prayers? :rotfl:
I don't take responsibility at all
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 874
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:49 am

johns624 wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
N583JB wrote:

Murders that are prevented generally don't make the news.

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/act ... ation=true

Out of the 50 active shooter events, 10 shooter events successfully interrupted the shooter. 6 had guns 4 didn't. So that take information as you will.
I'm sure having firearms on a plane could have stopped 9/11 with that logic :roll:
So 20% of mass shootings were stopped by civilians and that isn't good enough for you? What would you have done in that situation, cower? How many lives did they save? You do know the police can't be everywhere and have no duty to protect you, don't you?

Unless you receive training in active shooting, which requires courses you can't make the relation of me being a coward. Shooting guns take work, you should know that. Like I said, sureee you could have stopped all terror attacks on planes if you can guns in the air.
 
PHLspecial
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:55 am

N583JB wrote:
A gunman walked into a school in Knoxville and was confronted by an armed school resource officer. Shots were exchanged and the gunman was killed. Looks like the "good guy with a gun" just saved a bunch of kids.

But that is not a some random person that has a ccw. That is rare and you know that.
Understand owning a gun is more than just shooting especially with a ccw.
 
wingman
Posts: 4071
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:41 pm

Latest news from Knoxville:
https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/cri ... 197954002/

This doesn't appear to be an active shooter situation. The student that was shot by the officer was apparently in the bathroom, possibly suicidal? Four other school students were killed earlier this year outside school grounds as violent gun crime has wracked this part of the city. Five school students dead inside of four months. In any sane society thus story would stop a (sane) country dead in its tracks to ponder its social condition. Not here though, here we just encourage people to run out and buy more guns. It's like dropping a pallet full of cocaine in front of the Betty Ford thinking a few more rails will cure addiction.
 
N583JB
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:46 pm

wingman wrote:
Latest news from Knoxville:
https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/cri ... 197954002/

This doesn't appear to be an active shooter situation. The student that was shot by the officer was apparently in the bathroom, possibly suicidal? Four other school students were killed earlier this year outside school grounds as violent gun crime has wracked this part of the city. Five school students dead inside of four months. In any sane society thus story would stop a (sane) country dead in its tracks to ponder its social condition. Not here though, here we just encourage people to run out and buy more guns. It's like dropping a pallet full of cocaine in front of the Betty Ford thinking a few more rails will cure addiction.


That part of Knoxville is notoriously bad with gang violence. Not sure why law-abiding citizens should br disarmed because of gang violence.
 
johns624
Posts: 3628
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Re: That Didn't Take Long

Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:04 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/act ... ation=true

Out of the 50 active shooter events, 10 shooter events successfully interrupted the shooter. 6 had guns 4 didn't. So that take information as you will.
I'm sure having firearms on a plane could have stopped 9/11 with that logic :roll:
So 20% of mass shootings were stopped by civilians and that isn't good enough for you? What would you have done in that situation, cower? How many lives did they save? You do know the police can't be everywhere and have no duty to protect you, don't you?

12% in this example. On what planet is a 88% failure rate "good enough"?

johns624 wrote:
What would you have done in that situation, cower? How many lives did they save? You do know the police can't be everywhere and have no duty to protect you, don't you?

The nation literally trains children in school to run, hide, and fight if the first two options are not possible.

johns624 wrote:
You do know the police can't be everywhere and have no duty to protect you, don't you?

What strange little world do you live in? Is "to protect and serve" a hollow motto? Like blue lives matter or thoughts 'n prayers? :rotfl:
It's not an 88% failure rate. It's shootings that were stopped by civilians. Armed civiiians aren't everywhere, even though at least one member here thinks they are. If we depended solely on the police, they would've happened. Here's one of many sources about the police "duty to protect". They don't have one. https://insidesources.com/the-police-ha ... o-protect/
That's why the coward school resource officer at Marjorie Stoneman HS never faced any consequences. He had no duty to protect. That's also why firemen have a much better public reputation than police. Kids trapped in a burning building...in they go, and sometimes die. Police officer knowing there's an gunman in a school shooting people...I think I'll stay outside.
 
wingman
Posts: 4071
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:46 pm

N583JB wrote:

That part of Knoxville is notoriously bad with gang violence. Not sure why law-abiding citizens should br disarmed because of gang violence.


Did you see an initiative somewhere that aims at stripping law-abiding citizens of their guns? Please post your sources when making outlandish claims.
 
N583JB
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Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:37 pm

wingman wrote:
N583JB wrote:

That part of Knoxville is notoriously bad with gang violence. Not sure why law-abiding citizens should br disarmed because of gang violence.


Did you see an initiative somewhere that aims at stripping law-abiding citizens of their guns? Please post your sources when making outlandish claims.


Bans on semi-autos (which make up the vast majority of guns in circulation) have been proposed several times in recent memory. Thankfully, none have gone anywhere.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18612
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:17 pm

johns624 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
So 20% of mass shootings were stopped by civilians and that isn't good enough for you? What would you have done in that situation, cower? How many lives did they save? You do know the police can't be everywhere and have no duty to protect you, don't you?

12% in this example. On what planet is a 88% failure rate "good enough"?

johns624 wrote:
What would you have done in that situation, cower? How many lives did they save? You do know the police can't be everywhere and have no duty to protect you, don't you?

The nation literally trains children in school to run, hide, and fight if the first two options are not possible.

johns624 wrote:
You do know the police can't be everywhere and have no duty to protect you, don't you?

What strange little world do you live in? Is "to protect and serve" a hollow motto? Like blue lives matter or thoughts 'n prayers? :rotfl:
It's not an 88% failure rate. It's shootings that were stopped by civilians. Armed civiiians aren't everywhere, even though at least one member here thinks they are. If we depended solely on the police, they would've happened. Here's one of many sources about the police "duty to protect". They don't have one. https://insidesources.com/the-police-ha ... o-protect/
That's why the coward school resource officer at Marjorie Stoneman HS never faced any consequences. He had no duty to protect. That's also why firemen have a much better public reputation than police. Kids trapped in a burning building...in they go, and sometimes die. Police officer knowing there's an gunman in a school shooting people...I think I'll stay outside.

Of course it's an 88% failure rate--out of the sample of 50 shootings only 6 were stopped by armed civilians. How is that in any way acceptable, other than GOP self induced insanity? Conservatives have essentially dumped a man eating tiger into our schools and then patted themselves on the back when they occasionally fund an LEO to keep it in check, while everyone else has to figure out how to run child eating tiger drills regularly--all while Lapierre is *literally* on a yacht in international waters to "feel safe". It makes Ted Cruz' Cancun stunt look heroic.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
johns624
Posts: 3628
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:19 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
12% in this example. On what planet is a 88% failure rate "good enough"?


The nation literally trains children in school to run, hide, and fight if the first two options are not possible.


What strange little world do you live in? Is "to protect and serve" a hollow motto? Like blue lives matter or thoughts 'n prayers? :rotfl:
It's not an 88% failure rate. It's shootings that were stopped by civilians. Armed civiiians aren't everywhere, even though at least one member here thinks they are. If we depended solely on the police, they would've happened. Here's one of many sources about the police "duty to protect". They don't have one. https://insidesources.com/the-police-ha ... o-protect/
That's why the coward school resource officer at Marjorie Stoneman HS never faced any consequences. He had no duty to protect. That's also why firemen have a much better public reputation than police. Kids trapped in a burning building...in they go, and sometimes die. Police officer knowing there's an gunman in a school shooting people...I think I'll stay outside.

Of course it's an 88% failure rate--out of the sample of 50 shootings only 6 were stopped by armed civilians. How is that in any way acceptable, other than GOP self induced insanity? Conservatives have essentially dumped a man eating tiger into our schools and then patted themselves on the back when they occasionally fund an LEO to keep it in check, while everyone else has to figure out how to run child eating tiger drills regularly--all while Lapierre is *literally* on a yacht in international waters to "feel safe". It makes Ted Cruz' Cancun stunt look heroic.
I see that you don't understand concealed carry. It's not an 88% failure rate, it's 12% above and beyond what anyone else did. Did you ever think that there wasn't a concealed carrier in many of the other shootings? Did you know that carrying concealed doesn't give you any more rights or authority than anyone else? You have no duty or responsibility to step in. Your only concern is to protect yourself and your loved ones. In most situations, you're counseled to be a good witness and nothing else. You don't know what happened before you came on the scene. You don't have backup on your radio. You don't have the firepower of the police, or their ballistic vests. You're just trying to be a good citizen until the police show up and then you hope that they don't shoot you. Think of a CCW holder like a person who has had a few Red Cross first aid classes. You come upon a bad traffic accident. You can either continue on your way or you can stop and do what you can. You are not obligated to help. You could even lose your life if it's on the shoulder of a busy highway. Nobody would think the less of you if you kept on going. I also see that you completely ignored my link on the police "duty to protect".
Last edited by johns624 on Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
FGITD
Posts: 1527
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:22 pm

The good guy with the gun argument has to be one of the worst you can make. We don't live in the wild west anymore. And as the stats show, it's just such a minor outlier it's not even worth considering.

It's just such a childish solution. Oh no, a man with a gun! You know what this situation could use? A second man with a gun. Better have a third as well, in case we don't know what side that second guy is on.

I'm also fond of the "gun free zones are where gun crime happens"....no sh!t. If you were looking to hijack a plane, would you head down to the docks? Or if you were trying to rob someone, would you ambush them in the lobby of the police station?

I saw an interesting perspective earlier:
38,000 gun deaths a year in the US, and no action
2 cases of voter fraud in 2020, and 253 new laws are being passed.
 
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Moose135
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:12 pm

N583JB wrote:
A gunman walked into a school in Knoxville and was confronted by an armed school resource officer. Shots were exchanged and the gunman was killed. Looks like the "good guy with a gun" just saved a bunch of kids.

Yes, a trained law enforcement officer stopped him, not some random armed civilian.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
johns624
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:22 pm

Moose135 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
A gunman walked into a school in Knoxville and was confronted by an armed school resource officer. Shots were exchanged and the gunman was killed. Looks like the "good guy with a gun" just saved a bunch of kids.

Yes, a trained law enforcement officer stopped him, not some random armed civilian.
For one thing, an armed civilian can't carry in a school. For another, you'd be surprised as the shooting ability of many cops. They hardly ever practice unless the department is paying for ammo. Don't even get me going on the FFDOs (Fidos).
 
JJJ
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:09 pm

johns624 wrote:
Moose135 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
A gunman walked into a school in Knoxville and was confronted by an armed school resource officer. Shots were exchanged and the gunman was killed. Looks like the "good guy with a gun" just saved a bunch of kids.

Yes, a trained law enforcement officer stopped him, not some random armed civilian.
For one thing, an armed civilian can't carry in a school. For another, you'd be surprised as the shooting ability of many cops. They hardly ever practice unless the department is paying for ammo. Don't even get me going on the FFDOs (Fidos).


And how many wannabe cops are absolutely hopeless with a gun? Don't you see the giant false equivalence you made there?

If some cops aren't up to scratch remove them from the force. If cops are systematically under-trained, find the cash to get them trained. Having people armed around for protection is something you would expect from Somalia, not a modern, Western country.

You live in one of the richest countries in the world, get your priorities right.
 
johns624
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:30 pm

JJJ wrote:

And how many wannabe cops are absolutely hopeless with a gun? Don't you see the giant false equivalence you made there?


You live in one of the richest countries in the world, get your priorities right.

1. They must not be hopeless since you never read stories about civilians shooting the wrong person, only cops.
2. You're right about us getting our priorities straight. We need to cut back on our defense spending and only worry about things that are direct threats to us. Let the rest of the "free world" realize that their defense isn't "free".
 
JJJ
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:14 pm

johns624 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

And how many wannabe cops are absolutely hopeless with a gun? Don't you see the giant false equivalence you made there?


You live in one of the richest countries in the world, get your priorities right.

1. They must not be hopeless since you never read stories about civilians shooting the wrong person, only cops.


I hear about kids shooting siblings, friends shooting friends, parents shooting sons etc. all the time.

And from my own experience shooting in US ranges you see all kinds of people at the range. From great, knowledgeable guys with a clear safety first attitude to borderline wackos who shouldn't be trusted with a sharp pencil, much less a gun.

What's worse, a lot of gun owning civilians won't even bother showing up at the range or keep their gun skills sharp. I'm pretty sure the average cop is still a safer and better user than the average civilian gun owner.

2. You're right about us getting our priorities straight. We need to cut back on our defense spending and only worry about things that are direct threats to us. Let the rest of the "free world" realize that their defense isn't "free".


What are you waiting for then? Maybe it's not about the free world but rather about the massive industrial military complex feeding so many troughs in DC and elsewhere always looking for a way to get their cut.
 
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Kiwirob
Topic Author
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Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:23 pm

johns624 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

And how many wannabe cops are absolutely hopeless with a gun? Don't you see the giant false equivalence you made there?


You live in one of the richest countries in the world, get your priorities right.

1. They must not be hopeless since you never read stories about civilians shooting the wrong person, only cops.
2. You're right about us getting our priorities straight. We need to cut back on our defense spending and only worry about things that are direct threats to us. Let the rest of the "free world" realize that their defense isn't "free".


The US self designated as the worlds policeman, I couldn’t care less if you stopped being that policeman, your politicians on the other hand don’t want to stop, it up to American voters to end it, not me.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18612
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:25 pm

johns624 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
It's not an 88% failure rate. It's shootings that were stopped by civilians. Armed civiiians aren't everywhere, even though at least one member here thinks they are. If we depended solely on the police, they would've happened. Here's one of many sources about the police "duty to protect". They don't have one. https://insidesources.com/the-police-ha ... o-protect/
That's why the coward school resource officer at Marjorie Stoneman HS never faced any consequences. He had no duty to protect. That's also why firemen have a much better public reputation than police. Kids trapped in a burning building...in they go, and sometimes die. Police officer knowing there's an gunman in a school shooting people...I think I'll stay outside.

Of course it's an 88% failure rate--out of the sample of 50 shootings only 6 were stopped by armed civilians. How is that in any way acceptable, other than GOP self induced insanity? Conservatives have essentially dumped a man eating tiger into our schools and then patted themselves on the back when they occasionally fund an LEO to keep it in check, while everyone else has to figure out how to run child eating tiger drills regularly--all while Lapierre is *literally* on a yacht in international waters to "feel safe". It makes Ted Cruz' Cancun stunt look heroic.
I see that you don't understand concealed carry. It's not an 88% failure rate, it's 12% above and beyond what anyone else did. Did you ever think that there wasn't a concealed carrier in many of the other shootings? Did you know that carrying concealed doesn't give you any more rights or authority than anyone else? You have no duty or responsibility to step in. Your only concern is to protect yourself and your loved ones. In most situations, you're counseled to be a good witness and nothing else. You don't know what happened before you came on the scene. You don't have backup on your radio. You don't have the firepower of the police, or their ballistic vests. You're just trying to be a good citizen until the police show up and then you hope that they don't shoot you. Think of a CCW holder like a person who has had a few Red Cross first aid classes. You come upon a bad traffic accident. You can either continue on your way or you can stop and do what you can. You are not obligated to help. You could even lose your life if it's on the shoulder of a busy highway. Nobody would think the less of you if you kept on going. I also see that you completely ignored my link on the police "duty to protect".

It's very simple--if the conservative solution to mass shootings only works 12% of the time, it's not a solution. Period. And it's not even "working" that 12% of the time--the shooter is often successful at mowing people down before someone disables them, with a gun or otherwise.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
johns624
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:11 pm

JJJ wrote:
[
I hear about kids shooting siblings, friends shooting friends, parents shooting sons etc. all the time.

You were speaking of, and I was replying to, civilians with carry permits. Nice moving of the goalposts.
 
johns624
Posts: 3628
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:12 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
It's very simple--if the conservative solution to mass shootings only works 12% of the time, it's not a solution. Period. And it's not even "working" that 12% of the time--the shooter is often successful at mowing people down before someone disables them, with a gun or otherwise.
What do you propose, shooting people preemptively because they "look wrong"?
 
Newark727
Posts: 2354
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Re: That Didn't Take Long

Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:17 pm

johns624 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
It's very simple--if the conservative solution to mass shootings only works 12% of the time, it's not a solution. Period. And it's not even "working" that 12% of the time--the shooter is often successful at mowing people down before someone disables them, with a gun or otherwise.
What do you propose, shooting people preemptively because they "look wrong"?


Perhaps you've just stumbled across a fundamental limitation of a "good guy with a gun" as a means of dealing with mass shootings. MaverickM11's point is pretty clear to me - an armed civilian can only ever be realistically expected to react to violence already in progress, no matter how many guns you put in peoples' hands. What MaverickM11 wants is the spree shooter to not even get started in the first place.
 
johns624
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:39 pm

Newark727 wrote:
What MaverickM11 wants is the spree shooter to not even get started in the first place.
That's what everyone wants. To do that, mental health reforms need to be made.
 
JJJ
Posts: 4034
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:36 am

johns624 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
[
I hear about kids shooting siblings, friends shooting friends, parents shooting sons etc. all the time.

You were speaking of, and I was replying to, civilians with carry permits. Nice moving of the goalposts.


Who's moving what goalposts? You were equating that because some cops aren't the best shots or don't make the best judgement that somehow that would make civilians with guns a better option.

They're not. Most gun owners are subpar shots, and have never been under the stress and pressure of a tense situation like police officers are trained to do. You don't even need a carry permit in a lot of states which makes your point even more pointless.
 
johns624
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:03 pm

JJJ wrote:
johns624 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
[
I hear about kids shooting siblings, friends shooting friends, parents shooting sons etc. all the time.

You were speaking of, and I was replying to, civilians with carry permits. Nice moving of the goalposts.


Who's moving what goalposts? You were equating that because some cops aren't the best shots or don't make the best judgement that somehow that would make civilians with guns a better option.

They're not. Most gun owners are subpar shots, and have never been under the stress and pressure of a tense situation like police officers are trained to do. You don't even need a carry permit in a lot of states which makes your point even more pointless.
Don't be obtuse. Here, I'll walk you through the steps... There are often stories about cops hitting innocent bystanders or taking many, many shots to stop a criminal. You never read stories like that with CCW permit holders who have to use their guns.
 
JJJ
Posts: 4034
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:54 pm

johns624 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
johns624 wrote:
You were speaking of, and I was replying to, civilians with carry permits. Nice moving of the goalposts.


Who's moving what goalposts? You were equating that because some cops aren't the best shots or don't make the best judgement that somehow that would make civilians with guns a better option.

They're not. Most gun owners are subpar shots, and have never been under the stress and pressure of a tense situation like police officers are trained to do. You don't even need a carry permit in a lot of states which makes your point even more pointless.
Don't be obtuse. Here, I'll walk you through the steps... There are often stories about cops hitting innocent bystanders or taking many, many shots to stop a criminal. You never read stories like that with CCW permit holders who have to use their guns.


Perhaps because the cops job is to respond to shootings and other dangerous situations?

But you're missing my point again. Why are you equating random gun owner with specifically CCW holders which are a small subset and not really necessary in many states?

Would you be ok with requiring every gun owner to comply with CCW requisites? It'd be a nice starting point.
 
johns624
Posts: 3628
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:17 pm

JJJ wrote:
johns624 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

Who's moving what goalposts? You were equating that because some cops aren't the best shots or don't make the best judgement that somehow that would make civilians with guns a better option.

They're not. Most gun owners are subpar shots, and have never been under the stress and pressure of a tense situation like police officers are trained to do. You don't even need a carry permit in a lot of states which makes your point even more pointless.
Don't be obtuse. Here, I'll walk you through the steps... There are often stories about cops hitting innocent bystanders or taking many, many shots to stop a criminal. You never read stories like that with CCW permit holders who have to use their guns.


Perhaps because the cops job is to respond to shootings and other dangerous situations?

But you're missing my point again. Why are you equating random gun owner with specifically CCW holders which are a small subset and not really necessary in many states?

Would you be ok with requiring every gun owner to comply with CCW requisites? It'd be a nice starting point.
Seeing as you don't know the purpose of a CCW, I'm out of here. It's not worth my time.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18612
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: That Didn't Take Long

Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:37 am

johns624 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
It's very simple--if the conservative solution to mass shootings only works 12% of the time, it's not a solution. Period. And it's not even "working" that 12% of the time--the shooter is often successful at mowing people down before someone disables them, with a gun or otherwise.
What do you propose, shooting people preemptively because they "look wrong"?

Why would you think I'd want to reduce shootings by....shooting people? :confused:

johns624 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
What MaverickM11 wants is the spree shooter to not even get started in the first place.
That's what everyone wants. To do that, mental health reforms need to be made.

The same people that are on their luxury yacht in the Bahamas blocking gun reform are the ones also blocking healthcare reform so...
I don't take responsibility at all
 
JJJ
Posts: 4034
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:25 am

johns624 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Don't be obtuse. Here, I'll walk you through the steps... There are often stories about cops hitting innocent bystanders or taking many, many shots to stop a criminal. You never read stories like that with CCW permit holders who have to use their guns.


Perhaps because the cops job is to respond to shootings and other dangerous situations?

But you're missing my point again. Why are you equating random gun owner with specifically CCW holders which are a small subset and not really necessary in many states?

Would you be ok with requiring every gun owner to comply with CCW requisites? It'd be a nice starting point.
Seeing as you don't know the purpose of a CCW, I'm out of here. It's not worth my time.


No one was speaking about CCW at any point. Random civilian with a gun was the operative term that you replied to.

You just equated random gun owners to CCW holders out of the blue.

Which is great because it tells you believe training, certification and specific requirements for gun owners work towards a better gun safety.

Why not extend that to the rest of the gun owning population?
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18612
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Former NFL player kills five in latest US mass shooting

Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:14 pm

JJJ wrote:
johns624 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

Perhaps because the cops job is to respond to shootings and other dangerous situations?

But you're missing my point again. Why are you equating random gun owner with specifically CCW holders which are a small subset and not really necessary in many states?

Would you be ok with requiring every gun owner to comply with CCW requisites? It'd be a nice starting point.
Seeing as you don't know the purpose of a CCW, I'm out of here. It's not worth my time.


No one was speaking about CCW at any point. Random civilian with a gun was the operative term that you replied to.

You just equated random gun owners to CCW holders out of the blue.

Which is great because it tells you believe training, certification and specific requirements for gun owners work towards a better gun safety.

Why not extend that to the rest of the gun owning population?


On the bright side Texas decides licenses and training are too heavy a burden for gun owners:

Texas House OKs Dropping Permit to Carry Handgun in Public

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/politics/te ... y/2607021/

Mass shooters in SAT and IND celebrated accordingly.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-shoot- ... d=77102234

https://abcnews.go.com/US/multiple-peop ... d=77109792
I don't take responsibility at all

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