NIKV69 wrote:

Never had an issue. Turn car off, Put keys on dash, hands on wheel and follow their directions you will never have a problem.

Hope you don’t encounter someone like this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Rogerson

I once left a large supiscious-looking suitcase in the wrong carriage of a french TGV-train. Long story, I was stupid, but there was mitigating circumstances.
I was going to CDG, and was in a bit of hurry.

I left the the suitcase and went to the restaurant and got just drunk enough on red wine, a good book and music on my headphones that I didn't notice the train being at a standstill for more than an hour.

When we finaly started up again, I removed my headphones and recognized the message that had been blaring over the speakers again and again as containing words barely resembling parts of my name. I made myself known to the train personell.
My suitcase had been removed from the train, due to be blown up. I assured them there was no bomb in it. But that my passport and plane ticket (yes, the old days) were in it.

They told me I didn't need it anyway as the police would be waiting for me at CDG.

And they were.

They met me with "So, you are the damn terrorist", escorted me to the police car and asked me to sit.

Off we go, no sirens, but he was driving like a madman. Through a gate, across the apron, up to the plane, they confirmed my identity to the crew that was eager to close the doors wished me a good journey home. My suitcase was delivered to my door in Oslo the next day.

The french police are the worst.

My police encounters have practically all been positive.

A very fun encounter with the police was years ago, somewhere between Christmas and New Year. In short:
- Middle of the night, I was on my bike riding home, far from sober. Light of bike didn't work.
- I noticed a police vehicle right ahead, because my lights didn't work I decided to turn right along a large exit road from the city.
- Having turned right, I saw about 10 policemen. Clearly part of the traditional end of year alcohol campaign.
- I decided to keep riding looking down. "If I can't see them, they can't see me.".
- They did see me and stop me.
- I noticed they were all rather young. They probably choose the newbies to work at night late December.
- The one that stopped me started conversation:
- Policeman: "Do you also drive a car."
- That question startled me. Being rather drunk, I could think of many different answers. But I decided to keep it at "Yes".
- Policeman: "If the lights of your car are broken, then what do you do?"
- Again a tricky question with many possible answers. Being rather embarrased by now I decided to immediately suggest a solution for the situation I was in and said "Go on foot?"
- Policeman: "Correct! And I propose that is what you do now."
- Phew, problem solved. But I wasn't on the correct way home. To go the right way, I had to use a pedestrian crossing where you have to push a button to get the green light.
- So I headed to the crossing, only e few meters back and pushed the button.
- I waited.
- I waited more.
- Mind you, the city was totally deserted. Not a single car had passed since they stopped me and I saw all of the policemen looking at me and laughing.
- Waited a bit more.
- Policeman: "YOU DID PUSH THE BUTTON, RIGHT?" (in Flemish Dutch is was "G'ebt toch op't knoppeke gedrukt è" - wonder if the Dutch on this forum would even understand this)

Then quicly the green light came, I crossed and continued my way home. Back on the bike off course as soon as I was out of sight.

It was embarrasing for me but I'm glad I didn't get a fine and gave those policemen some fun on their long december night

M564038 wrote:

I once left a large supiscious-looking suitcase in the wrong carriage of a french TGV-train. Long story, I was stupid, but there was mitigating circumstances.
I was going to CDG, and was in a bit of hurry.

I left the the suitcase and went to the restaurant and got just drunk enough on red wine, a good book and music on my headphones that I didn't notice the train being at a standstill for more than an hour.

When we finaly started up again, I removed my headphones and recognized the message that had been blaring over the speakers again and again as containing words barely resembling parts of my name. I made myself known to the train personell.
My suitcase had been removed from the train, due to be blown up. I assured them there was no bomb in it. But that my passport and plane ticket (yes, the old days) were in it.

They told me I didn't need it anyway as the police would be waiting for me at CDG.

And they were.

They met me with "So, you are the damn terrorist", escorted me to the police car and asked me to sit.

Off we go, no sirens, but he was driving like a madman. Through a gate, across the apron, up to the plane, they confirmed my identity to the crew that was eager to close the doors wished me a good journey home. My suitcase was delivered to my door in Oslo the next day.

The french police are the worst.

I've only come across a few French Police, they've been alright.

Also encountered a group of soldiers from the Armée de terre who just happened to be there when our event was going through, waving and cheering to all of us. Just great.

Wow, some of those are pretty creepy.
Since I've never had a bad encounter with police I'll share two funny ones.

First one in UK: After flight training in Oxford I still lived there for a while and sometimes chartered a PA34 to buzz over to Germany for the weekend. One Sunday evening got home really late, around 2300 local (on PPR), got in my car after filling the paperwork and almost immediately after leaving the airport premises I saw police lights flashing in my mirror. I pulled over, not sure what was going on, got out and so did one of the police. I asked her what's up, she just chuckled: "Nothing really, we were just wondering why you're driving on the wrong side..." I just facepalmed and apologised, absolutely hadn't realized I was driving on the right all the time (well, maybe about one mile), and even pulled over to the right! There was zero traffic at this time so I simply was driving in "brain autopilot" of sorts, which still thought I was in Germany I guess. My car was left hand drive with german numberplates, so of course the police immediately knew what's up and had a good laugh. I would surely have realized my mistakte before joining the A44 but they just wanted to be sure. Let me add that I really love the british police, such a friendlyand funny bunch.

Second one was in Germany just last winter, I was on my way home at night and it was snowing hard, almost whiteout conditions, and again very late just around midnight. I'm in a really rural place (as in really nothing around for miles) on winding mountain roads, after one turn I spot the reflective back of a police car, which was stuck just off the road in a snowdrift. I slowed down and stopped behins them, the two police got out. Being in funny mood I gave them a "Been going a little too fast, have we?!" and they just shruggen and said "well yeah, I bit maybe"
They said it would take at least an hour for a tow truck to reach them from the nearest city, so I said we could try pulling them out with my car. I attached the removable trailer hitch and they had a rope with them, which we just flung over. After a few unsuccesfull attempts it worked and they were free again. We had another laugh and went our ways, two days later I came home to find a crate of beer in front of my house with a little thank you note in it. Cute

In Germany we say the police is your friend and helper. At student parties when neighbors complain of loud music police will friendly request to close the windows. If they have ro come a second time they will have a bit more ordering voice, but still polite. I like German police.

In India neighbors encroached my mother in law's plot. She had settled on public land 50 years ago, so nobody there paid for the land. In 2012 it was surveyed and a document issued which showed the land as belonging to her.
But the other party had a politician relative. They started building. I got a stop order from the municipality which they ignored. When my mother in law went again they said "What you want us to do if they don't listen? "
The first lawyer was also bribed. A friend then recommended a lawyer known to be not corrupt. He also only accepts cases that will win. He took our case.

To file a case one has to complain to many different offices. One said they are not in charge. So why do we need to get their stamp and signature? The police refused to accept my complaint. The lawyer then sent it by registered ID. That's enough to get a court case. During all these letter writings the other party continued to build the fundament. The lawyer told me I have to stop them physically without getting into a fight. I stood there to throw down their bowls of concrete. They withdrew for 15 minutes to discuss what to do. My wife phoned the police to inform them that they will beat me. The police wasn't interested.

In India nothing happens if a women beats a men. But if a man beats a woman that man will get hammering from the police. So the men came with the bowls of concrete while a 50 and a 80 year old woman beat me on the arm with bamboo sticks. Bamboo sticks pain, but don't cause serious injuries. If I had to beat the ladies back I would have gotten a good beating from the men. They were hoping for me to loose my temper. I threw down two bowls of concrete. The third was thrown over my upper body. By that time I was also sure to have enough marks on my arms. So I left to go to the police.
First I fired the police for not coming even though my wife had informed them that I would get beating. The policeman said he will throw me into jail if the women complain. I said I want to see that. Next he said he will throw me out of country. I asked before or after throwing me in jail? He told me to get some document. When I came back he became sweet. It's a language problem, a misunderstanding. I told him there is no misunderstanding and that he doesn't do his job.

My lawyer told me not to file a case against the women. They will file a case in return and I will be in trouble. At least the work stopped.
The day the court ordered the stop they started again. They tried to complete the fundamemt. So I went to the police again. Since I had a court order they had to act. A policeman stopped me from going to the boss and shouted aggressive at me to go. I told him that I'm not going anywhere and that he has to go to stop the work. He asked me in a threatening voice to give my phone number. I told him it's already in their book and that I would like to have his name. He started covering his name sign which was of course a sign how illegal he acted. I told him that he has to wear the nameboard so that I can see it. He even removed it. When I tried to make a photo he tried to pull my mobile from my hand. I shouted at him to leave my mobile. Here the boss called me in. He had other policemen with him. I decided I pushed it hard enough for the day and didn't backanswer. Construction stopped, this time for good.

India is a democracy with freedom of press and of opinion. There are maybe five percent people who are smart enough and brave enough to fight back. Why would politicians or police provoke these people to further action? It's much easier for them to leave a small way out for these few and make their dirty games with the remaining 95%. To show the police that one belongs to the 5% one has to be bossy.

I did the same when a gold smith cheated me. I threatened the police that I will spend another 300 $ on lawyers to file "Right of information act" applications to find out how many cases of gold smith cheatings are pending in the city and approach the press with it. The police therefore had to do with a small bribe from the gold smith in my case. It's a dominance and submission culture. Civilized discussion is useless.

N583JB wrote:

johns624 wrote:

N583JB wrote:

So you are arguing that the police kill tens of millions of people each year? Why isn't the news covering this?

No, but since this is an aviation forum, the correct example would be that there are millions of people who fly every year but the few that crash make the news. The difference is the pilots are very seldom trying to crash the plane but many of the police officers are doing wrong.

To use that analogy, it would be similar to someone claiming that no one should ever fly because a plane crashed last year.

When a plane crashes, a special team is called in to find out what happened and steps are taken to correct those mistakes and make flying safer. With cops, all they do is get a slap on the wrist and nothing changes. Maybe it is time we treated cops like airplane crashes. That is: investigate, hold those responsible accountable and make actual, real changes.

seb146 wrote:

N583JB wrote:

johns624 wrote:

No, but since this is an aviation forum, the correct example would be that there are millions of people who fly every year but the few that crash make the news. The difference is the pilots are very seldom trying to crash the plane but many of the police officers are doing wrong.

To use that analogy, it would be similar to someone claiming that no one should ever fly because a plane crashed last year.

When a plane crashes, a special team is called in to find out what happened and steps are taken to correct those mistakes and make flying safer. With cops, all they do is get a slap on the wrist and nothing changes. Maybe it is time we treated cops like airplane crashes. That is: investigate, hold those responsible accountable and make actual, real changes.

Maybe it’d happen IF Democrats weren’t funded by public sector unions.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

seb146 wrote:

N583JB wrote:

To use that analogy, it would be similar to someone claiming that no one should ever fly because a plane crashed last year.

When a plane crashes, a special team is called in to find out what happened and steps are taken to correct those mistakes and make flying safer. With cops, all they do is get a slap on the wrist and nothing changes. Maybe it is time we treated cops like airplane crashes. That is: investigate, hold those responsible accountable and make actual, real changes.

Maybe it’d happen IF Democrats weren’t funded by public sector unions.

Don't change the subject. Giving health care and decent wage to people is vastly different than demanding cops be held to a much higher standard than the rest of us. They literally choose who dies and are not held accountable beyond "go sit in time out". Police unions need to be defunded. Qualified immunity needs to be thrown away. Hold cops to a higher standard.

Years ago I got a speeding ticket the day before my 19th birthday. When the cop handed it to me he told me Happy Birthday. I deserved it but wow dick move boss.

seb146 wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

seb146 wrote:

When a plane crashes, a special team is called in to find out what happened and steps are taken to correct those mistakes and make flying safer. With cops, all they do is get a slap on the wrist and nothing changes. Maybe it is time we treated cops like airplane crashes. That is: investigate, hold those responsible accountable and make actual, real changes.

Maybe it’d happen IF Democrats weren’t funded by public sector unions.

Don't change the subject. Giving health care and decent wage to people is vastly different than demanding cops be held to a much higher standard than the rest of us. They literally choose who dies and are not held accountable beyond "go sit in time out". Police unions need to be defunded. Qualified immunity needs to be thrown away. Hold cops to a higher standard.

My police officer friends are incredibly scrutinized.

How many times have you made a mistake at work?
As one Police friend noted, he never busted a yuppie with a wine bottle sticking out of the picnic basket as none ever made him fear for his life.

The issue is a failure the cops are expected to clean up. Our revolving door system is not helping.
https://www.reference.com/world-view/pe ... 98e78dd859

My best coworker was a felon. He reformed and became an excellent engineer. But OMG, he should have been shot his first arrest (professional boxer starting a bar brawl and not quiting...).

Police actually need their unions. I'm not saying there shouldn't be reform, but if police fear the Monday morning quarterbacking, they won't due their job as happened so many places last summer.

We need rule of law. Read the economist Bernstein of the consequences. e.g., businesses do not invest as much. Paraphrasing his books, they expect much higher profits where there is uncertainty. The point of a police force is certainty.

We need the policy to treat a police incident as an aircraft crash. Both ways. If it is just a crackdown to punish police, forget it. For example, if an investigation finds a group targeting officers, arrest that group, RICO, etc.

The reality is, 99% of officers are really good people. There will always be bad apples. There needs to be a system. We need due process. We need trials.

What we don't need us the mob rule that, in my opinion, we witnessed last year and a few places now.

Lightsaber

I once read a statistic that for every time a person gets a motor vehicle violation from police, they've offended 80 times. Seems likely to me.

I've only once felt hard done by police, pretty much every time I've been accused of doing something, I did it, and there were probably 80 times I got away with it for each one I got caught.

I've even gotten 'rich man's justice' more than once. I always fight tickets after an experience in my early 20s where I was too lazy to go to court in a case that I clearly would have gotten knocked down to a warning, then all of a sudden I got a few tickets I could not fight and I almost lost my license and my insurance sky rocketed. Last time I went to court to fight the ticket, the upshot was it'd all be forgotten if I made a $50 donation to the charity of the state's choice. No brainer.

I actually went into dick mode once at the police after being pulled over, which is totally out of character for me. Usually I am very polite and compliant, this time I was enraged and hostile. It felt like I was having an out-of-body experience. I really can't explain it other than I was very sick with a cold and was in no mood to deal with police. Funny thing was I ended up with a warning. I really regret being a dick, but it still strikes me as odd that it worked in my favor that day.

And I've had at least one excellent experience with police. Basically I had two bikes stolen that I did not report till after I found an abandoned stolen bike at the edge of my property. When the police came to collect the abandoned bike, I filed a report on my stolen bikes. With the aid of a few social media posts I made, the police were able to locate the owner of the abandoned bike and return it within two hours of me finding it. Later on, they actually caught the bike thief, and my stolen bikes were in photos on his computer. He had already sold them on, but he had to make restitution to avoid jail, so he (actually his rich daddy) ended up paying me full retail price to replace two bikes. Honestly I never expected the bike thief to be caught, never mind for me to get full restitution.

These days I'm a lot more mellow behind the wheel, especially since CV19 means I don't drive much any more. Yet I have to say there are many places around here where it's safer to break the law then to obey the law. We have one highway six lanes wide that is posted 55 MPH and if you drive that you are probably going to get into a crash or worse. My motto is drive safe, even if that means breaking the law!

Zeppi wrote:

Wow, some of those are pretty creepy.
Since I've never had a bad encounter with police I'll share two funny ones.

They said it would take at least an hour for a tow truck to reach them from the nearest city, so I said we could try pulling them out with my car. I attached the removable trailer hitch and they had a rope with them, which we just flung over. After a few unsuccesfull attempts it worked and they were free again. We had another laugh and went our ways, two days later I came home to find a crate of beer in front of my house with a little thank you note in it. Cute

So they know where you stay

WIederling wrote:

Tiredofhumanity wrote:

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

This is valid in court proceedings. Your are not in court

And police hasn't got the full "Street Judges" qualification yet

Another domain:
Media don't want to hear about it either.
guilty beyond any redeeming information or act.

Shouldn't "Innocent Until Proven Guilty" be actually practiced on the streets by 'Police Officers' rather than only in the court by 'The Judges'?

Because in several instances for the past decade or so, if any 'People Of Color' are caught by 'The Police Officers' the verdict given to those people have been 'Guilty And Being Shot Dead Instantly'.

The behavior of the police in the US is created by the US themselves. A heavily weaponized society and police officers with just some training.

I had a couple ones.

First one was in PR. On my way back from the campus I was to transfer to, I was on the highway and need to pay a toll. At the time we didn't have the EZPass-like lanes so we paid exact change or go to a staffed booths. I was on the right-most lane and about to go in, when this cop (no siren, no lights) uses the emergency lane and tries to cut in front of me (something for which a regular Joe would get a hefty ticket, especially since that lane had quite the queue). I didn't let him cut in and proceeded. A few miles after, he flashed his lights and forced me to stop. He initially said that one of my passengers didn't have their seatbelt on, something for which I lowered the window and he showed that, indeed, he HAD his seatbelt on. He kept looking as if trying to find another way to justify pulling me over but in the end, didn't have anything and let me go.

The second time, I was in MD. It was early Saturday morning, I was starving and heading out for breakfast. I had just moved to the area and had not noticed the speed limits so I just flowed with traffic. I had 3 other cars in front of me and I kept following them. A cop, coming the other way makes a U-turn and pulls me over. He makes me notice that I was doing 45mph in a 30mph zone and about to enter a 25mph zone. When he calculated everything, he said that because I had no other tickets, he would drop the infraction to 39mph, because if he posted 40+ it would be 6 points on my license. I was kinda ticked off that, out of 4 cars, he pulls ME over (guess that's the price for being at the rear...that prompted me to get a police detector scanner, which I've used ever since). But I guess I should be thankful that he lowered the infraction.

The third time, in MD I had been assigned to fly with the Navy and needed to pass their swim quals but as I was a contractor, I did not have access to the base pool so I had to settle for the community pool. The folks there are no strangers to people coming to train for the swim quals so when I told them about it, they were quite relaxed and offered me the furthest part of the pool for me to train without any disturbances. For this, you have to swim in full flight gear (a suit, helmet, and boots). As it turned out, it was kiddie day at the pool, though they were at the shallow end whereas I was on the deep end (10 ft). After confirming with front desk again that they were OK with me in full suit going to the pool, I made my way out. First part of the qual is demonstrate you can do one of the approved Navy strokes and I found the backstroke the easiest. As such, I started doing laps...that is, until I reached the edge and see a cop staring down at me. He asked what I was doing and that they got "several" calls about a weird person swimming in a flight suit. I explained what I was doing, but he still demanded to check my ID. As he was doing that, a second unit arrived and guarded the entrance of the pool. The first officer then went to check with front desk...all the while I was drenched and waiting, with other people staring my way. He came back, apologized and said that I was free to continue swimming, but clearly I took it as a sign that I needed to get the hell out of there. He kept insisting that he wasn't kicking me out, but I felt that the fact that he had to even intervene at all was cause enough for me to leave, and that there was no guarantee that the next time someone won't take matters into their own hands.

lightsaber wrote:

seb146 wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Maybe it’d happen IF Democrats weren’t funded by public sector unions.

Don't change the subject. Giving health care and decent wage to people is vastly different than demanding cops be held to a much higher standard than the rest of us. They literally choose who dies and are not held accountable beyond "go sit in time out". Police unions need to be defunded. Qualified immunity needs to be thrown away. Hold cops to a higher standard.

My police officer friends are incredibly scrutinized.

How many times have you made a mistake at work?
As one Police friend noted, he never busted a yuppie with a wine bottle sticking out of the picnic basket as none ever made him fear for his life.

The issue is a failure the cops are expected to clean up. Our revolving door system is not helping.
https://www.reference.com/world-view/pe ... 98e78dd859

Two points:

1. how many cops open fire because "I thought he was holding a gun" but it turned out to be a cell phone or a sandwich or a shadow? Daunte Wright was initially pulled over for his tags and air fresheners. He ended up being shot because "I thought it was my taser". Cops screw up on their job and oh, well... give them a desk assignment for like two weeks thoughts and prayers. A hamburger flipper is fired if s/he messes with the food. How is that fair?

2. we wouldn't have a revolving door system if it weren't for a combination of archaic laws and for-profit prisons.

seb146 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Don't change the subject. Giving health care and decent wage to people is vastly different than demanding cops be held to a much higher standard than the rest of us. They literally choose who dies and are not held accountable beyond "go sit in time out". Police unions need to be defunded. Qualified immunity needs to be thrown away. Hold cops to a higher standard.

My police officer friends are incredibly scrutinized.

How many times have you made a mistake at work?
As one Police friend noted, he never busted a yuppie with a wine bottle sticking out of the picnic basket as none ever made him fear for his life.

The issue is a failure the cops are expected to clean up. Our revolving door system is not helping.
https://www.reference.com/world-view/pe ... 98e78dd859

Two points:

1. how many cops open fire because "I thought he was holding a gun" but it turned out to be a cell phone or a sandwich or a shadow? Daunte Wright was initially pulled over for his tags and air fresheners. He ended up being shot because "I thought it was my taser". Cops screw up on their job and oh, well... give them a desk assignment for like two weeks thoughts and prayers. A hamburger flipper is fired if s/he messes with the food. How is that fair?

2. we wouldn't have a revolving door system if it weren't for a combination of archaic laws and for-profit prisons.

The cop you are referring to is now awaiting trial on felony charges. That's not exactly a two week desk assignment.

N583JB wrote:

seb146 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

My police officer friends are incredibly scrutinized.

How many times have you made a mistake at work?
As one Police friend noted, he never busted a yuppie with a wine bottle sticking out of the picnic basket as none ever made him fear for his life.

The issue is a failure the cops are expected to clean up. Our revolving door system is not helping.
https://www.reference.com/world-view/pe ... 98e78dd859

Two points:

1. how many cops open fire because "I thought he was holding a gun" but it turned out to be a cell phone or a sandwich or a shadow? Daunte Wright was initially pulled over for his tags and air fresheners. He ended up being shot because "I thought it was my taser". Cops screw up on their job and oh, well... give them a desk assignment for like two weeks thoughts and prayers. A hamburger flipper is fired if s/he messes with the food. How is that fair?

2. we wouldn't have a revolving door system if it weren't for a combination of archaic laws and for-profit prisons.

The cop you are referring to is now awaiting trial on felony charges. That's not exactly a two week desk assignment.

"We will charge this one and hold her up as the example that we discipline our own this one time" is not even close to the same thing.

seb146 wrote:

N583JB wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Two points:

1. how many cops open fire because "I thought he was holding a gun" but it turned out to be a cell phone or a sandwich or a shadow? Daunte Wright was initially pulled over for his tags and air fresheners. He ended up being shot because "I thought it was my taser". Cops screw up on their job and oh, well... give them a desk assignment for like two weeks thoughts and prayers. A hamburger flipper is fired if s/he messes with the food. How is that fair?

2. we wouldn't have a revolving door system if it weren't for a combination of archaic laws and for-profit prisons.

The cop you are referring to is now awaiting trial on felony charges. That's not exactly a two week desk assignment.

"We will charge this one and hold her up as the example that we discipline our own this one time" is not even close to the same thing.

Yeah then we have the Capitol police officer who shot and killed an unarmed white woman when there were armed police right behind her when at best her crime was trespassing and not only was the officer not charged we don't even know his name and probably would have never even heard this story had someone not caught it on video. This officer is being made an example of because the victim was black if he was white it would have never made the news that is why the media makes it appear the cops are only targeting blacks when in fact if you resist and do something stupid like trying to drive away and you are white and you get shot and killed it won't make the news it doesn't fit the narrative and it happens a lot. I do agree this officer while it may be a mistake it was one that is inexcusable and she will pay a price for it. We need better vetting and a national data base of problem officers like Derek Chauvin I am all for police reforms.

seb146 wrote:

N583JB wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Two points:

1. how many cops open fire because "I thought he was holding a gun" but it turned out to be a cell phone or a sandwich or a shadow? Daunte Wright was initially pulled over for his tags and air fresheners. He ended up being shot because "I thought it was my taser". Cops screw up on their job and oh, well... give them a desk assignment for like two weeks thoughts and prayers. A hamburger flipper is fired if s/he messes with the food. How is that fair?

2. we wouldn't have a revolving door system if it weren't for a combination of archaic laws and for-profit prisons.

The cop you are referring to is now awaiting trial on felony charges. That's not exactly a two week desk assignment.

"We will charge this one and hold her up as the example that we discipline our own this one time" is not even close to the same thing.

You chose to use that officer as an example, not me. Your example doesn't support your argument, though.

Actually the stories above remind me that the cop who wrote my last ticket was really surly, presumably because I did not confess to doing anything wrong. Hey, I was just leaving the "his word against mine" defense open to myself. Why he had no video evidence was a mystery to me, it would have made my defense a lot more difficult.

One thing he did was wave down another cop who was passing as he was walking the ticket over to me and those guys proceeded to have a 20 minute conversation. Then he finally gave me the ticket and my license back without saying a word about the long delay. I didn't say a word either because I knew I'd be going to court and trying to get out of the ticket, which I did by just donating $50 to charity.

Funny thing is that pleading guilty and paying the fine would have cost over $220 and would have impacted my insurance cost and driving record too. IMO, you should always fight tickets, even if it means losing a day's work or vacation time. Every time I've done so, I've gotten the ticked knocked down or eliminated entirely.

stratosphere wrote:

Yeah then we have the Capitol police officer who shot and killed an unarmed white woman when there were armed police right behind her when at best her crime was trespassing and not only was the officer not charged we don't even know his name and probably would have never even heard this story had someone not caught it on video. This officer is being made an example of because the victim was black if he was white it would have never made the news that is why the media makes it appear the cops are only targeting blacks when in fact if you resist and do something stupid like trying to drive away and you are white and you get shot and killed it won't make the news it doesn't fit the narrative and it happens a lot. I do agree this officer while it may be a mistake it was one that is inexcusable and she will pay a price for it. We need better vetting and a national data base of problem officers like Derek Chauvin I am all for police reforms.

The Capitol crowd were trying to use violence to coerce Congress into overturning a legitimate election. If they had succeeded, police reform would be stone dead, because their views on the subject ranged from "anyone who protests it is a thieving thug" to "actually wants to start a race war."

None, actually. And I lived in STL for years as a minority. Every officer had been extremely helpful. All the stories from TV seem like a far removed reality. They are an asshole about speeding but that is clear cut and not subject to interpretation.


Now I have heard some credible people discuss discrimination in STL, and I'm sure it does happen, but I have never experienced it. In fact, many of the young black population always speak about how their relation with the police is very GOOD of all things.

I live in CA now, and the cops here practice zero discrimination as they are asses to everybody regardless of race

Revelation wrote:

Actually the stories above remind me that the cop who wrote my last ticket was really surly, presumably because I did not confess to doing anything wrong. Hey, I was just leaving the "his word against mine" defense open to myself. Why he had no video evidence was a mystery to me, it would have made my defense a lot more difficult.

One thing he did was wave down another cop who was passing as he was walking the ticket over to me and those guys proceeded to have a 20 minute conversation. Then he finally gave me the ticket and my license back without saying a word about the long delay. I didn't say a word either because I knew I'd be going to court and trying to get out of the ticket, which I did by just donating $50 to charity.

Funny thing is that pleading guilty and paying the fine would have cost over $220 and would have impacted my insurance cost and driving record too. IMO, you should always fight tickets, even if it means losing a day's work or vacation time. Every time I've done so, I've gotten the ticked knocked down or eliminated entirely.

And if you don't have the time, pay a traffic lawyer for like 80 bucks

stl07 wrote:

And if you don't have the time, pay a traffic lawyer for like 80 bucks

Interesting, haven't seen lawyers offer to fight tickets for cheap money like that where I drive the most (NH, MA, CT). I guess I'll have to look harder. The last ticket was in CT and I had to drive two hours each way and take a day off work, so it would have been worth it.

Revelation wrote:

stl07 wrote:

And if you don't have the time, pay a traffic lawyer for like 80 bucks

Interesting, haven't seen lawyers offer to fight tickets for cheap money like that where I drive the most (NH, MA, CT). I guess I'll have to look harder. The last ticket was in CT and I had to drive two hours each way and take a day off work, so it would have been worth it.

They are everywhere in Missouri so I'm sure you can find them up there too

stratosphere wrote:

seb146 wrote:

N583JB wrote:

The cop you are referring to is now awaiting trial on felony charges. That's not exactly a two week desk assignment.

"We will charge this one and hold her up as the example that we discipline our own this one time" is not even close to the same thing.

Yeah then we have the Capitol police officer who shot and killed an unarmed white woman when there were armed police right behind her when at best her crime was trespassing and not only was the officer not charged we don't even know his name and probably would have never even heard this story had someone not caught it on video. This officer is being made an example of because the victim was black if he was white it would have never made the news that is why the media makes it appear the cops are only targeting blacks when in fact if you resist and do something stupid like trying to drive away and you are white and you get shot and killed it won't make the news it doesn't fit the narrative and it happens a lot. I do agree this officer while it may be a mistake it was one that is inexcusable and she will pay a price for it. We need better vetting and a national data base of problem officers like Derek Chauvin I am all for police reforms.

The woman who was in the mob that attempted to overthrow the government? That "unarmed white woman" we need to hold up? okay.... You didn't provide any proof so...

zanl188 wrote:

stratosphere wrote:

seb146 wrote:

"We will charge this one and hold her up as the example that we discipline our own this one time" is not even close to the same thing.

Yeah then we have the Capitol police officer who shot and killed an unarmed white woman when there were armed police right behind her when at best her crime was trespassing and not only was the officer not charged we don't even know his name and probably would have never even heard this story had someone not caught it on video. This officer is being made an example of because the victim was black if he was white it would have never made the news that is why the media makes it appear the cops are only targeting blacks when in fact if you resist and do something stupid like trying to drive away and you are white and you get shot and killed it won't make the news it doesn't fit the narrative and it happens a lot. I do agree this officer while it may be a mistake it was one that is inexcusable and she will pay a price for it. We need better vetting and a national data base of problem officers like Derek Chauvin I am all for police reforms.

White carjacking suspect. Runs from cops. Bails out of the car. Tries to carjack another vehicle at gunpoint. Shot by Cops. Makes the news.

https://youtu.be/cufDzxZZLG4

Whose narrative does it not fit?

Armed suspect taken alive, unarmed suspect shot dead. Guess the skin color of those suspects?

Here is a good reason why minorities do not trust cops

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/oath-kee ... d76ejzCyk0

seb146 wrote:

zanl188 wrote:

stratosphere wrote:

Yeah then we have the Capitol police officer who shot and killed an unarmed white woman when there were armed police right behind her when at best her crime was trespassing and not only was the officer not charged we don't even know his name and probably would have never even heard this story had someone not caught it on video. This officer is being made an example of because the victim was black if he was white it would have never made the news that is why the media makes it appear the cops are only targeting blacks when in fact if you resist and do something stupid like trying to drive away and you are white and you get shot and killed it won't make the news it doesn't fit the narrative and it happens a lot. I do agree this officer while it may be a mistake it was one that is inexcusable and she will pay a price for it. We need better vetting and a national data base of problem officers like Derek Chauvin I am all for police reforms.

White carjacking suspect. Runs from cops. Bails out of the car. Tries to carjack another vehicle at gunpoint. Shot by Cops. Makes the news.

https://youtu.be/cufDzxZZLG4

Whose narrative does it not fit?

Armed suspect taken alive, unarmed suspect shot dead. Guess the skin color of those suspects?

How about the armed black man in Austin who allegedly killed three people yesterday? Taken alive without incident.

N583JB wrote:

seb146 wrote:

zanl188 wrote:

White carjacking suspect. Runs from cops. Bails out of the car. Tries to carjack another vehicle at gunpoint. Shot by Cops. Makes the news.

https://youtu.be/cufDzxZZLG4

Whose narrative does it not fit?

Armed suspect taken alive, unarmed suspect shot dead. Guess the skin color of those suspects?

How about the armed black man in Austin who allegedly killed three people yesterday? Taken alive without incident.

One against how many unarmed minorities killed? One does not equal all...

May I kibdly remind <you to keep this thread on topic which was sharing your own bad personal experiences with the police? Thanks.

af773atmsp wrote:

I'm curious what stories you have, no matter where you're from and who you are. Can be anything from just a rude cop to a near death experience (if you're comfortable sharing that of course).

My experiences weren't exactly awful, just uncomfortable:

First one was back in 2013. I was visiting a friend in NYC, and we went to a spot to get a good view of the skyline from across the Hudson River. That involved trespassing, but it was just a vacant lot. A cop somehow found us and he definitely wasn't in a good mood. To make matters worse, when he asked for our IDs I couldn't give him mine because it was back at my friend's place (he lived at a university dorm and for whatever reason their policy is guests must leave their ID at the reception desk). I did have my community college ID but it wasn't good enough for him. He gave us a stern talking and considered making us go to court, but he was merciful enough to let us go when I explained that I was visiting for only a couple days.

Second time was in 2014. I was driving and my phone rang, but I couldn't answer (I think at that time it was still legal to use your phone while driving, but I never use my phone while driving). I parked on a dead-end street to see who it was, and seeing that it was a survey place where I could get a little bit of money I called them back. Moments later a cop car parked in back of my car and a cop got out. I hung up and an officer came to the passenger-side window asking what I was doing. I explained that I was making a call and he asked to see my phone. Legally I could've refused, but I had nothing to hide so I let him look. There were a few other officers around, and they tried the number I had just called. I overheard on a radio that the number was just a survey place and to let him (me) go. Apparently at a nearby hotel there's a lot of sex trafficking and they assumed I was part of that. One of the officers said "you don't look like pimp material anyways," which at the time I could chuckle about, but now I wonder if he was inferring to my race. I'm white, so that situation could've gone very differently if I was black, even if I let them check my phone and they realized I was just calling a survey place.

Third time was in 2018. I had just gotten off of work for the night and on my way home I noticed a train, so I decided to go to a spot to get a video of it. This spot is very rural with no houses around. As I drove down the dead-end gravel road to get to the spot a cop car drove past me and then turned around. Right away I knew something was wrong and sure enough the lights started flashing, so naturally I pulled over. The cop asks what I'm doing here, and I wasn't sure how he would respond to "I'm just waiting for a train" so I lied and said I was trying to get to a nearby town. He asked for my ID, and I had remembered that not long ago Philando Castile was reaching for his ID and got shot because the officer thought he was pulling out a gun. I calmly asked the officer if I could step out of the vehicle to get my ID, and he was fine with that. Perhaps it was an odd request, but I just felt safer that he would be able to clearly see me reaching into my pocket to get my wallet. After a little bit he explained why he pulled me over (apparently that spot gets a lot of drunks and drug users at night) and then told me that I was "clearly not going in the right direction" to get to town and told me how to get there.

Last time was in 2019, and involved a cop who didn't know what he was talking about. I was on my bike and got clipped by a car at a crosswalk. Thankfully I wasn't injured, but just to be on the safe side I called the police and the driver who clipped me was okay with that. The cop tells me I'm not allowed to bike on the sidewalk and I either need to bike on the street or walk on the sidewalk. I asked him what exact law stated that biking on the sidewalk isn't allowed, and he just brushed it off saying he would have to look it up later. After that experience it was a long process of getting in contact with the city to see if this cop was right or not. It took a month, but I got in contact with the police chief who said that it's perfectly legal to bike on the sidewalk.

So... You were trespassing, you found yourself in a bad place you weren't aware of where they would have been looking for sex traffickers making deals on a phone, you were down a dark road then lied to the cops about why you were there and you rode your bike on a sidewalk (which except for minors is illegal in most places) - I got such a ticket at the age of 18. So pretty much, they let you go for trespassing, they rightfully checked on you given the circumstances, they were probably concerned for your safety, and they didn't give you a ticket for riding on the sidewalk.

My only confrontation was flicking a cig butt out the window and hitting a motorcycle cop in the leg. Burned his pants. Ticket for littering, Judge threw it out because the cop didn't show up for court that day.

I guess you can all it a bad experience (of sorts) lol. My family and I were on a car trip to Austria in the early 90's (before Sweden joined EU).
We had been to Salzburg a few days earlier and decided to go to Salzburg again rather then to Venice. We stayed in a small town a bit west of Kitzbühel)
and the closest route to Salzburg were through south eastern corner of Germany. See link
The previous time we had just been waved through at the border checks (I assume they recognized Swedish license plates). The rules stated stated that
you had to lower the side window on the drivers side but this time my father had forgotten to do that. Anyway the border police who were managing out
lane was very upset with that and had us turn the engine off while thoroughly checking our passports. Needless to say my father was very quick to lower the
next times we passed the borders.

DL717 wrote:

af773atmsp wrote:

I'm curious what stories you have, no matter where you're from and who you are. Can be anything from just a rude cop to a near death experience (if you're comfortable sharing that of course).

My experiences weren't exactly awful, just uncomfortable:

First one was back in 2013. I was visiting a friend in NYC, and we went to a spot to get a good view of the skyline from across the Hudson River. That involved trespassing, but it was just a vacant lot. A cop somehow found us and he definitely wasn't in a good mood. To make matters worse, when he asked for our IDs I couldn't give him mine because it was back at my friend's place (he lived at a university dorm and for whatever reason their policy is guests must leave their ID at the reception desk). I did have my community college ID but it wasn't good enough for him. He gave us a stern talking and considered making us go to court, but he was merciful enough to let us go when I explained that I was visiting for only a couple days.

Second time was in 2014. I was driving and my phone rang, but I couldn't answer (I think at that time it was still legal to use your phone while driving, but I never use my phone while driving). I parked on a dead-end street to see who it was, and seeing that it was a survey place where I could get a little bit of money I called them back. Moments later a cop car parked in back of my car and a cop got out. I hung up and an officer came to the passenger-side window asking what I was doing. I explained that I was making a call and he asked to see my phone. Legally I could've refused, but I had nothing to hide so I let him look. There were a few other officers around, and they tried the number I had just called. I overheard on a radio that the number was just a survey place and to let him (me) go. Apparently at a nearby hotel there's a lot of sex trafficking and they assumed I was part of that. One of the officers said "you don't look like pimp material anyways," which at the time I could chuckle about, but now I wonder if he was inferring to my race. I'm white, so that situation could've gone very differently if I was black, even if I let them check my phone and they realized I was just calling a survey place.

Third time was in 2018. I had just gotten off of work for the night and on my way home I noticed a train, so I decided to go to a spot to get a video of it. This spot is very rural with no houses around. As I drove down the dead-end gravel road to get to the spot a cop car drove past me and then turned around. Right away I knew something was wrong and sure enough the lights started flashing, so naturally I pulled over. The cop asks what I'm doing here, and I wasn't sure how he would respond to "I'm just waiting for a train" so I lied and said I was trying to get to a nearby town. He asked for my ID, and I had remembered that not long ago Philando Castile was reaching for his ID and got shot because the officer thought he was pulling out a gun. I calmly asked the officer if I could step out of the vehicle to get my ID, and he was fine with that. Perhaps it was an odd request, but I just felt safer that he would be able to clearly see me reaching into my pocket to get my wallet. After a little bit he explained why he pulled me over (apparently that spot gets a lot of drunks and drug users at night) and then told me that I was "clearly not going in the right direction" to get to town and told me how to get there.

Last time was in 2019, and involved a cop who didn't know what he was talking about. I was on my bike and got clipped by a car at a crosswalk. Thankfully I wasn't injured, but just to be on the safe side I called the police and the driver who clipped me was okay with that. The cop tells me I'm not allowed to bike on the sidewalk and I either need to bike on the street or walk on the sidewalk. I asked him what exact law stated that biking on the sidewalk isn't allowed, and he just brushed it off saying he would have to look it up later. After that experience it was a long process of getting in contact with the city to see if this cop was right or not. It took a month, but I got in contact with the police chief who said that it's perfectly legal to bike on the sidewalk.

So... You were trespassing, you found yourself in a bad place you weren't aware of where they would have been looking for sex traffickers making deals on a phone, you were down a dark road then lied to the cops about why you were there and you rode your bike on a sidewalk (which except for minors is illegal in most places) - I got such a ticket at the age of 18. So pretty much, they let you go for trespassing, they rightfully checked on you given the circumstances, they were probably concerned for your safety, and they didn't give you a ticket for riding on the sidewalk.

In the second case I was following the law by pulling over on a public road where I was allowed to park and making the phone call. Would the police rather I drive while making the phone call and being distracted? In my case the police simply checked my phone because I allowed them to and that was it, but what would've happened in a situation where a person refused to allow the police to check their phone? What if on top of that they were black? Maybe it would've ended the same way it did for me, or maybe the police would've been ticked off by a person's rightful refusal for them to look at their phone. Or a black person, no matter what they do, would be deemed suspicious by the police and allowing them to check their phone wouldn't be enough.

Regarding the third case I was also on a public road, and I lied to the cop (singular, not plural) that I was lost because I figured telling him I was waiting for a train would make things worse. I'm well within my right to watch a train from a public road no matter what time of day it is, but I didn't know if the cop would be thinking the same or would think I'm up to something suspicious.

You seemed to ignore the part in the fourth case where I said I was able to get into contact with the police chief and he said it's legal for anyone to bike on the sidewalk. Not only did he say that, he also said he bikes on the sidewalk too because biking on the street in most parts of my area is way too dangerous. So the cop who told me I'm not allowed to bike on the sidewalk was not only completely wrong but I get the feeling he doesn't know what bikers have to put up with. Either we bike on the sidewalk and get in the way of pedestrians, or we bike on the street and get in the way of motorists. And then people complain about adding bike lanes, but that's a whole different topic.

Absolutely none. I'm over 50 and grew up in the deep south. I'm South Indian, and darker than 90% of African Americans.
Unlike said African Americans, I have a difficult name to pronounce, have a completely different eastern religion, and I am in no way culturally American EXCEPT when I speak with an American accent.

I have driven a car since 1986, and have had 3-4 speeding tickets in my life. None of these encounters were in any way shape or form "hostile", "dangerous" or anything other than pleasant.

The fact that everyone now is scared to say is that the police by and large are great people who protect us and put their lives on the line every day, every hour. To say they have it out for dark people, blacks/latinos, Asians, Middle Easterners, is simply preposterous.

Now, if you misbehave, do drugs, wield a weapon, use said weapon(s) during a commission of a crime, or any number of crimes, don't expect the police to be nice to you or don't expect to get away with your behavior.

I'm so sick and tired of the anti-police idiocy in this country and the west. There is a reason that Indian-Americans or Chinese or Japanese do not have bad experiences with police or get shot by police or are killed by police. We overall, with very few exceptions, DO NOT BREAK THE LAW. We don't put ourselves in a position at 3 am to loiter at a street corner, acting suspiciously. We don't abuse drugs or commit petty street crime. And when we are stopped by the police, we are kind, straightforward, answer their questions, and go home to our families.

Don't break the law, then you won't have any bad interactions with the police. Plain and simple. Finally, there is no "epidemic" of white cop/black suspect shootings. Hardly. What is the reality? Cops shoot white suspects just as much as black suspects.

Social and familial ills in the American minority community are the prime culprit here, and no government intervention can cure that.

Thinking back to my historical interactions with the police, a couple of minor driving issues where my memory had always been that I'd been hard done by... in reality it was absolutely me in the wrong and the worst that ever happened is that I got the ticket that the offense deserved.

On the flip side, on one occasion I joined a dual carraigeway (a road with a central median, 2 lanes in either direction) immediately next to an unmarked police car (most of which I knew the identities of very well). I was in a car that I'd bought just after selling a property. The limit was 50mph rising to 70 a couple of miles down the road. Very light traffic, sunny, dry day. The police car was doing about 48mph and I gently creeped past it with my speedometer showing ~55, which was likely bang on 50.

A few miles down the road, in the 70 limit and with the police car nowhere in sight behind me and nothing in front of me for at least a mile...I let go. Really let go. 7 miles later, approaching the end of the road, the police steam up behind me and I was invited to sit in the back of their car. My opening line was "well that was stupid wasn't it" and I told them openly and honestly what I'd just done, including knowing that they were traffic cops as soon as I saw their car. They played a video to me of my car on radar doing about 130mph and asked me what the judge would say / do in court. When I was not a dick about it, they played another with me doing 93mph (2 mph under the automatic court case speed of 25mph over the limit). My answer was along the lines of "I'd be a very lucky, and very grateful young man". I got that ticket and very much appreciated the job they had done that day.

That was in the UK where the police were almost totally unarmed (apart from specialist units) and well before the days of the taser. It makes a huge difference to the population knowing that the chance of not being shot when interacting with the police is very high. I have no doubt that it makes the same difference to the police.

Had a few, one sticks out :

Pulled over for speeding, only about 12 mph over the limit

I’m polite and cooperative, the cop is hyper aggressive however, yelling at me, swearing etc

I stay cool, not wanting to give him an excuse but finally I’ve had enough so I ask him what the reason is for attitude

His response ‘well I could just arrest you’

‘What for ? ‘ I said

‘I’ll think of a reason’ he replied

Despite my anger I stay calm, don’t say a word and sign the ticket

As I drove away I thought this SOB probably acts on his anger, makes stuff up and lies to screw people over all the time

I wonder how many lives he’s ruined, I thought about complaining to his supervisor but there was no video record of the encounter and with my word against his I know what the result will be


Good cops are priceless but bad ones are a blight on society, extremely dangerous and unlike conventional wisdom that you often hear like ‘99.9 % of cops are good’ they are a substantial part of police forces and sheriffs departments across the country

texdravid wrote:

Absolutely none. I'm over 50 and grew up in the deep south. I'm South Indian, and darker than 90% of African Americans.
Unlike said African Americans, I have a difficult name to pronounce, have a completely different eastern religion, and I am in no way culturally American EXCEPT when I speak with an American accent.

I have driven a car since 1986, and have had 3-4 speeding tickets in my life. None of these encounters were in any way shape or form "hostile", "dangerous" or anything other than pleasant.

The fact that everyone now is scared to say is that the police by and large are great people who protect us and put their lives on the line every day, every hour. To say they have it out for dark people, blacks/latinos, Asians, Middle Easterners, is simply preposterous.

Now, if you misbehave, do drugs, wield a weapon, use said weapon(s) during a commission of a crime, or any number of crimes, don't expect the police to be nice to you or don't expect to get away with your behavior.

I'm so sick and tired of the anti-police idiocy in this country and the west. There is a reason that Indian-Americans or Chinese or Japanese do not have bad experiences with police or get shot by police or are killed by police. We overall, with very few exceptions, DO NOT BREAK THE LAW. We don't put ourselves in a position at 3 am to loiter at a street corner, acting suspiciously. We don't abuse drugs or commit petty street crime. And when we are stopped by the police, we are kind, straightforward, answer their questions, and go home to our families.

Don't break the law, then you won't have any bad interactions with the police. Plain and simple. Finally, there is no "epidemic" of white cop/black suspect shootings. Hardly. What is the reality? Cops shoot white suspects just as much as black suspects.

Social and familial ills in the American minority community are the prime culprit here, and no government intervention can cure that.

That is complete nonsense

Max Q wrote:

texdravid wrote:

Absolutely none. I'm over 50 and grew up in the deep south. I'm South Indian, and darker than 90% of African Americans.
Unlike said African Americans, I have a difficult name to pronounce, have a completely different eastern religion, and I am in no way culturally American EXCEPT when I speak with an American accent.

I have driven a car since 1986, and have had 3-4 speeding tickets in my life. None of these encounters were in any way shape or form "hostile", "dangerous" or anything other than pleasant.

The fact that everyone now is scared to say is that the police by and large are great people who protect us and put their lives on the line every day, every hour. To say they have it out for dark people, blacks/latinos, Asians, Middle Easterners, is simply preposterous.

Now, if you misbehave, do drugs, wield a weapon, use said weapon(s) during a commission of a crime, or any number of crimes, don't expect the police to be nice to you or don't expect to get away with your behavior.

I'm so sick and tired of the anti-police idiocy in this country and the west. There is a reason that Indian-Americans or Chinese or Japanese do not have bad experiences with police or get shot by police or are killed by police. We overall, with very few exceptions, DO NOT BREAK THE LAW. We don't put ourselves in a position at 3 am to loiter at a street corner, acting suspiciously. We don't abuse drugs or commit petty street crime. And when we are stopped by the police, we are kind, straightforward, answer their questions, and go home to our families.

Don't break the law, then you won't have any bad interactions with the police. Plain and simple. Finally, there is no "epidemic" of white cop/black suspect shootings. Hardly. What is the reality? Cops shoot white suspects just as much as black suspects.

Social and familial ills in the American minority community are the prime culprit here, and no government intervention can cure that.

That is complete nonsense

Okay, what part is nonsense? Don’t give cops a reason and they don’t stop you. Get stopped, cooperate and graduate.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Max Q wrote:

texdravid wrote:

Absolutely none. I'm over 50 and grew up in the deep south. I'm South Indian, and darker than 90% of African Americans.
Unlike said African Americans, I have a difficult name to pronounce, have a completely different eastern religion, and I am in no way culturally American EXCEPT when I speak with an American accent.

I have driven a car since 1986, and have had 3-4 speeding tickets in my life. None of these encounters were in any way shape or form "hostile", "dangerous" or anything other than pleasant.

The fact that everyone now is scared to say is that the police by and large are great people who protect us and put their lives on the line every day, every hour. To say they have it out for dark people, blacks/latinos, Asians, Middle Easterners, is simply preposterous.

Now, if you misbehave, do drugs, wield a weapon, use said weapon(s) during a commission of a crime, or any number of crimes, don't expect the police to be nice to you or don't expect to get away with your behavior.

I'm so sick and tired of the anti-police idiocy in this country and the west. There is a reason that Indian-Americans or Chinese or Japanese do not have bad experiences with police or get shot by police or are killed by police. We overall, with very few exceptions, DO NOT BREAK THE LAW. We don't put ourselves in a position at 3 am to loiter at a street corner, acting suspiciously. We don't abuse drugs or commit petty street crime. And when we are stopped by the police, we are kind, straightforward, answer their questions, and go home to our families.

Don't break the law, then you won't have any bad interactions with the police. Plain and simple. Finally, there is no "epidemic" of white cop/black suspect shootings. Hardly. What is the reality? Cops shoot white suspects just as much as black suspects.

Social and familial ills in the American minority community are the prime culprit here, and no government intervention can cure that.

That is complete nonsense

Okay, what part is nonsense? Don’t give cops a reason and they don’t stop you. Get stopped, cooperate and graduate.

Tell that to Philando Castile. Oh wait you can't, because he's dead.

af773atmsp wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Max Q wrote:

That is complete nonsense

Okay, what part is nonsense? Don’t give cops a reason and they don’t stop you. Get stopped, cooperate and graduate.

Tell that to Philando Castile. Oh wait you can't, because he's dead.

That’s a non-answer. One case defines millions of civilian-police interactions that occur annually? BTW, the officer instructed Castile to NOT reach for the weapon. He disobeyed the officer’s completely legitimate instructions. Back to the referenced-follow directions and you won’t have a problem-get creative, disobey, don’t listen and you’re creating hazards. Why is this so difficult?

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Max Q wrote:

texdravid wrote:

Absolutely none. I'm over 50 and grew up in the deep south. I'm South Indian, and darker than 90% of African Americans.
Unlike said African Americans, I have a difficult name to pronounce, have a completely different eastern religion, and I am in no way culturally American EXCEPT when I speak with an American accent.

I have driven a car since 1986, and have had 3-4 speeding tickets in my life. None of these encounters were in any way shape or form "hostile", "dangerous" or anything other than pleasant.

The fact that everyone now is scared to say is that the police by and large are great people who protect us and put their lives on the line every day, every hour. To say they have it out for dark people, blacks/latinos, Asians, Middle Easterners, is simply preposterous.

Now, if you misbehave, do drugs, wield a weapon, use said weapon(s) during a commission of a crime, or any number of crimes, don't expect the police to be nice to you or don't expect to get away with your behavior.

I'm so sick and tired of the anti-police idiocy in this country and the west. There is a reason that Indian-Americans or Chinese or Japanese do not have bad experiences with police or get shot by police or are killed by police. We overall, with very few exceptions, DO NOT BREAK THE LAW. We don't put ourselves in a position at 3 am to loiter at a street corner, acting suspiciously. We don't abuse drugs or commit petty street crime. And when we are stopped by the police, we are kind, straightforward, answer their questions, and go home to our families.

Don't break the law, then you won't have any bad interactions with the police. Plain and simple. Finally, there is no "epidemic" of white cop/black suspect shootings. Hardly. What is the reality? Cops shoot white suspects just as much as black suspects.

Social and familial ills in the American minority community are the prime culprit here, and no government intervention can cure that.

That is complete nonsense

Okay, what part is nonsense? Don’t give cops a reason and they don’t stop you. Get stopped, cooperate and graduate.

All

It buys into the deluded right wing myth that 99.9 % of cops are good, it’s a sniveling, groveling worship of cops used in the hope that expression will make them look more righteous, law abiding and downright pious than others and just means they’ve been lucky so far in their interactions with cops


Anyone can be the victim of police brutality, if you’re a white male your odds are a lot better but you’re not immune


‘Cooperate and graduate’


GMAFB

I am not a apologist for, or worshipper of, the police, BUT don’t give them a reason to attack you and there’s very small chance they will, in fact, commit brutality. You can’t control the cop’s attitude, but you can control your reaction. Power corrupts and police powers corrupt quite heavily. If you don’t believe that, just get crosswise with employees who have petty powers—flight attendants and TSA agents come to mind.

Exactly what would you suggest? Get rid of them? Have social workers attend stabbings and plead for peace. Cops are, at best, a necessary evil and we have a lot of violent people, sadly. Or is it your experience that a small minorit6 of cops are hunt8ng down opportunities to abuse the public? My belief is there are “bad cops” there disciplinary record bears that out but corrupt unions and Democratic city politics protect them. It’s not accident these police shootings overwhelmingly occur in the Democrat-run Inner cities. Minneapolis has had D-FLP mayors for 42 years, what’s the cause and effect relationship?

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

I am not a apologist for, or worshipper of, the police, BUT don’t give them a reason to attack you and there’s very small chance they will, in fact, commit brutality. You can’t control the cop’s attitude, but you can control your reaction. Power corrupts and police powers corrupt quite heavily. If you don’t believe that, just get crosswise with employees who have petty powers—flight attendants and TSA agents come to mind.

Exactly what would you suggest? Get rid of them? Have social workers attend stabbings and plead for peace. Cops are, at best, a necessary evil and we have a lot of violent people, sadly. Or is it your experience that a small minorit6 of cops are hunt8ng down opportunities to abuse the public? My belief is there are “bad cops” there disciplinary record bears that out but corrupt unions and Democratic city politics protect them. It’s not accident these police shootings overwhelmingly occur in the Democrat-run Inner cities. Minneapolis has had D-FLP mayors for 42 years, what’s the cause and effect relationship?

You can be as cooperative and polite as possible, with some cops it just doesn’t matter as was the case with my stop when the cop threatened to make up something to arrest me and the case with many of police interactions with others



Believe me your whole attitude towards cops changes very quickly when you’re the victim of a bad one



Many (not a small minority) of cops take on an attitude of ‘us vs them’ or if ‘you’re not a cop you’re a criminal’ the peer pressure to be like that is very difficult to resist. Another endemic problem is that of doing ‘whatever it takes’ to make sure they survive no matter the cost to others


As difficult as it may be for cops to accept their well being is not the primary purpose of the police force, public safety and protection (white or black) is. Becoming a cop carries with it a degree of risk but many won’t accept that and will harm others to protect themselves regardless of the situation, justified or not



It appears you’re on board with the popular right wing misinformation that Democrats support abolishing the police completely, that was a useful campaign talking point for you but it didn’t get your lunatic candidate re-elected and it’s nonsense



Good cops are irreplaceable, invaluable and vital, bad ones need to be shown the door

The problem is rooted in culture not color.

The culture of the policeman...not vetted well enough..not prepared for stress properly. Split second decisions are not always easy.

The culture, in general, of an area that which a patrol officer patrols plays into their heightened senses.

Cultural issues lead to societal issues. Demographics can be different but the cultural breakdowns lead to the mess we are in now regardless of skin color.

Until we are willing to address the root cause, then race will continually be used as excuse, manipulation tool, point of division, and political volleyball.

The police are on the front lines and often undertrained and underpaid. In my few encounters I’d say mostly professional but surly at best.

You get what you pay for.

texdravid wrote:

Absolutely none. I'm over 50 and grew up in the deep south. I'm South Indian, and darker than 90% of African Americans.
Unlike said African Americans, I have a difficult name to pronounce, have a completely different eastern religion, and I am in no way culturally American EXCEPT when I speak with an American accent.

I have driven a car since 1986, and have had 3-4 speeding tickets in my life. None of these encounters were in any way shape or form "hostile", "dangerous" or anything other than pleasant.

The fact that everyone now is scared to say is that the police by and large are great people who protect us and put their lives on the line every day, every hour. To say they have it out for dark people, blacks/latinos, Asians, Middle Easterners, is simply preposterous.

Now, if you misbehave, do drugs, wield a weapon, use said weapon(s) during a commission of a crime, or any number of crimes, don't expect the police to be nice to you or don't expect to get away with your behavior.

I'm so sick and tired of the anti-police idiocy in this country and the west. There is a reason that Indian-Americans or Chinese or Japanese do not have bad experiences with police or get shot by police or are killed by police. We overall, with very few exceptions, DO NOT BREAK THE LAW. We don't put ourselves in a position at 3 am to loiter at a street corner, acting suspiciously. We don't abuse drugs or commit petty street crime. And when we are stopped by the police, we are kind, straightforward, answer their questions, and go home to our families.

Don't break the law, then you won't have any bad interactions with the police. Plain and simple. Finally, there is no "epidemic" of white cop/black suspect shootings. Hardly. What is the reality? Cops shoot white suspects just as much as black suspects.

Social and familial ills in the American minority community are the prime culprit here, and no government intervention can cure that.

That's strange. I know loads of Asian and folks from the Indian subcontinent who break the law. They are just seen as a "model minority" and not scrutinized as much.

DL717 wrote:

af773atmsp wrote:

I'm curious what stories you have, no matter where you're from and who you are. Can be anything from just a rude cop to a near death experience (if you're comfortable sharing that of course).

My experiences weren't exactly awful, just uncomfortable:

First one was back in 2013. I was visiting a friend in NYC, and we went to a spot to get a good view of the skyline from across the Hudson River. That involved trespassing, but it was just a vacant lot. A cop somehow found us and he definitely wasn't in a good mood. To make matters worse, when he asked for our IDs I couldn't give him mine because it was back at my friend's place (he lived at a university dorm and for whatever reason their policy is guests must leave their ID at the reception desk). I did have my community college ID but it wasn't good enough for him. He gave us a stern talking and considered making us go to court, but he was merciful enough to let us go when I explained that I was visiting for only a couple days.

Second time was in 2014. I was driving and my phone rang, but I couldn't answer (I think at that time it was still legal to use your phone while driving, but I never use my phone while driving). I parked on a dead-end street to see who it was, and seeing that it was a survey place where I could get a little bit of money I called them back. Moments later a cop car parked in back of my car and a cop got out. I hung up and an officer came to the passenger-side window asking what I was doing. I explained that I was making a call and he asked to see my phone. Legally I could've refused, but I had nothing to hide so I let him look. There were a few other officers around, and they tried the number I had just called. I overheard on a radio that the number was just a survey place and to let him (me) go. Apparently at a nearby hotel there's a lot of sex trafficking and they assumed I was part of that. One of the officers said "you don't look like pimp material anyways," which at the time I could chuckle about, but now I wonder if he was inferring to my race. I'm white, so that situation could've gone very differently if I was black, even if I let them check my phone and they realized I was just calling a survey place.

Third time was in 2018. I had just gotten off of work for the night and on my way home I noticed a train, so I decided to go to a spot to get a video of it. This spot is very rural with no houses around. As I drove down the dead-end gravel road to get to the spot a cop car drove past me and then turned around. Right away I knew something was wrong and sure enough the lights started flashing, so naturally I pulled over. The cop asks what I'm doing here, and I wasn't sure how he would respond to "I'm just waiting for a train" so I lied and said I was trying to get to a nearby town. He asked for my ID, and I had remembered that not long ago Philando Castile was reaching for his ID and got shot because the officer thought he was pulling out a gun. I calmly asked the officer if I could step out of the vehicle to get my ID, and he was fine with that. Perhaps it was an odd request, but I just felt safer that he would be able to clearly see me reaching into my pocket to get my wallet. After a little bit he explained why he pulled me over (apparently that spot gets a lot of drunks and drug users at night) and then told me that I was "clearly not going in the right direction" to get to town and told me how to get there.

Last time was in 2019, and involved a cop who didn't know what he was talking about. I was on my bike and got clipped by a car at a crosswalk. Thankfully I wasn't injured, but just to be on the safe side I called the police and the driver who clipped me was okay with that. The cop tells me I'm not allowed to bike on the sidewalk and I either need to bike on the street or walk on the sidewalk. I asked him what exact law stated that biking on the sidewalk isn't allowed, and he just brushed it off saying he would have to look it up later. After that experience it was a long process of getting in contact with the city to see if this cop was right or not. It took a month, but I got in contact with the police chief who said that it's perfectly legal to bike on the sidewalk.

So... You were trespassing, you found yourself in a bad place you weren't aware of where they would have been looking for sex traffickers making deals on a phone, you were down a dark road then lied to the cops about why you were there and you rode your bike on a sidewalk (which except for minors is illegal in most places) - I got such a ticket at the age of 18. So pretty much, they let you go for trespassing, they rightfully checked on you given the circumstances, they were probably concerned for your safety, and they didn't give you a ticket for riding on the sidewalk.

My only confrontation was flicking a cig butt out the window and hitting a motorcycle cop in the leg. Burned his pants. Ticket for littering, Judge threw it out because the cop didn't show up for court that day.

Actually - 16 was considered an adult without voting or sexual rights in NY State (NY is full of massive prudes) in 2013. The age adult age wasn't raised to 18 until Oct. 2019.