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af773atmsp
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Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:48 am

Tensions were already rough with Chauvin trial going on, and this latest police shooting of a black male made it much more severe. Not a good time in the Twin Cities region, that's for sure.

2 days ago in the suburb of Brooklyn Center during a routine traffic stop, officers discovered Daunte Wright had an outstanding warrant for his arrest. Daunte managed to break free as one officer was trying to handcuff him, and a second officer pulled out what she thought was her taser and fired. She had actually pulled out her gun and shot Daunte, who then sped away and shortly after crashed. Daunte died from the gunshot wound.

Officer Kim Potter, who shot Daunte, has claimed she accidentally took out her handgun instead of her taser. Both her and the Brooklyn Center police chief have resigned.

Upon looking at the body camera footage, it appears there was 6 seconds between Potter pulling out her handgun and firing it. There's also the fact that a taser is much lighter than a handgun, plus it's bright yellow. An argument can be made that since it was a tense situation Potter simply made a tragic mistake, and she does sound distressed upon realizing she shot Daunte instead of tasing him. However, Potter had been an officer for 26 years. It's extremely rare for an officer to mistake their gun for a taser, and when it happens it's because they're improperly trained. Was she truly improperly trained this whole time?

Accident or not, a 20-year old with a son isn't coming home, and my region and the country as a whole are once again thrown into chaos with people, especially those of color, having a deep distrust of police. Will we learn something from this? I'm unsure we learned anything from the George Floyd case, so I won't hold my breath on that.

Should Daunte had just accepted arrest? Yes, but did he deserve to die for trying to flee? Absolutely not. This wasn't a mass shooter, terrorist, or some high profile criminal they were going after.
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:56 am

It's problematic that there's an arrest warrant out for him, and that he was shot while attempting to flee.

This is not George Floyd who was killed under restraint.
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Elkadad313
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:02 am

af773atmsp wrote:
Tensions were already rough with Chauvin trial going on, and this latest police shooting of a black male made it much more severe. Not a good time in the Twin Cities region, that's for sure.

2 days ago in the suburb of Brooklyn Center during a routine traffic stop, officers discovered Daunte Wright had an outstanding warrant for his arrest. Daunte managed to break free as one officer was trying to handcuff him, and a second officer pulled out what she thought was her taser and fired. She had actually pulled out her gun and shot Daunte, who then sped away and shortly after crashed. Daunte died from the gunshot wound.

Officer Kim Potter, who shot Daunte, has claimed she accidentally took out her handgun instead of her taser. Both her and the Brooklyn Center police chief have resigned.

Upon looking at the body camera footage, it appears there was 6 seconds between Potter pulling out her handgun and firing it. There's also the fact that a taser is much lighter than a handgun, plus it's bright yellow. An argument can be made that since it was a tense situation Potter simply made a tragic mistake, and she does sound distressed upon realizing she shot Daunte instead of tasing him. However, Potter had been an officer for 26 years. It's extremely rare for an officer to mistake their gun for a taser, and when it happens it's because they're improperly trained. Was she truly improperly trained this whole time?

Accident or not, a 20-year old with a son isn't coming home, and my region and the country as a whole are once again thrown into chaos with people, especially those of color, having a deep distrust of police. Will we learn something from this? I'm unsure we learned anything from the George Floyd case, so I won't hold my breath on that.

Should Daunte had just accepted arrest? Yes, but did he deserve to die for trying to flee? Absolutely not. This wasn't a mass shooter, terrorist, or some high profile criminal they were going after.

Very unfortunate and should have never happened. Three words describe how incidents of this type can be largely avoided: comply - don't flee
 
af773atmsp
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:05 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
af773atmsp wrote:
Tensions were already rough with Chauvin trial going on, and this latest police shooting of a black male made it much more severe. Not a good time in the Twin Cities region, that's for sure.

2 days ago in the suburb of Brooklyn Center during a routine traffic stop, officers discovered Daunte Wright had an outstanding warrant for his arrest. Daunte managed to break free as one officer was trying to handcuff him, and a second officer pulled out what she thought was her taser and fired. She had actually pulled out her gun and shot Daunte, who then sped away and shortly after crashed. Daunte died from the gunshot wound.

Officer Kim Potter, who shot Daunte, has claimed she accidentally took out her handgun instead of her taser. Both her and the Brooklyn Center police chief have resigned.

Upon looking at the body camera footage, it appears there was 6 seconds between Potter pulling out her handgun and firing it. There's also the fact that a taser is much lighter than a handgun, plus it's bright yellow. An argument can be made that since it was a tense situation Potter simply made a tragic mistake, and she does sound distressed upon realizing she shot Daunte instead of tasing him. However, Potter had been an officer for 26 years. It's extremely rare for an officer to mistake their gun for a taser, and when it happens it's because they're improperly trained. Was she truly improperly trained this whole time?

Accident or not, a 20-year old with a son isn't coming home, and my region and the country as a whole are once again thrown into chaos with people, especially those of color, having a deep distrust of police. Will we learn something from this? I'm unsure we learned anything from the George Floyd case, so I won't hold my breath on that.

Should Daunte had just accepted arrest? Yes, but did he deserve to die for trying to flee? Absolutely not. This wasn't a mass shooter, terrorist, or some high profile criminal they were going after.

Very unfortunate and should have never happened. Three words describe how incidents of this type can be largely avoided: comply - don't flee


Tell that to Philando Castile. Oh wait you can't, because he died even though he complied and didn't flee.
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:12 am

Local LE training needs to be completely revamped, with higher standards for entry, especially on psych evaluations. There's no way we will fund two years of training like Germany or Australia do, but de-escalation and psychological profiling training are a must. Veterans need to pass currency tests, because some are prone to having fossilized bad habits from outdated training in years past. It makes absolutely no sense for a violent confrontation to arise for a misdemeanor arrest warrant like the above - responsibility is on both parties, Wright and the police. De-escalation communication would prevent him from feeling the need to flee in the first place. In too many of the videos we've seen, cops are shouting, cursing, and demanding compliance. That is 100% *not* the way to get a person to calm down and discuss what's going on.

It's easy for people not in the same position to chirp from the sidelines that anyone stopped should simply 'comply' - in an ideal world, sure. But when people stopped are aware of things like this, that's easier said than done.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/in ... as-n980556
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Dogman
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:32 am

Every black person in the US, stopped by police now can claim that he was trying to flee because he was fearing for his life.
 
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:42 am

af773atmsp wrote:
Tell that to Philando Castile. Oh wait you can't, because he died even though he complied and didn't flee.

"...can be LARGELY avoided..."
 
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Aesma
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:19 am

Was he stopped because of the warrant of because of "driving while black" ?
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Aaron747
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:30 am

Aesma wrote:
Was he stopped because of the warrant of because of "driving while black" ?


He was stopped due to illegal placement of an air freshener, but during the stop they ran his name and found his misdemeanor arrest warrant.
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:07 am

We've seen it before where multiple police officers are apparently incapable of restraining a compliant (up to a point) suspect. The officer attempting to cuff Wright looked like he'd never handled a pair of cuffs before.

Aaron747 wrote:
He was stopped due to illegal placement of an air freshener


Serious stuff.
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Aaron747
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:18 am

scbriml wrote:
We've seen it before where multiple police officers are apparently incapable of restraining a compliant (up to a point) suspect. The officer attempting to cuff Wright looked like he'd never handled a pair of cuffs before.

Aaron747 wrote:
He was stopped due to illegal placement of an air freshener


Serious stuff.


Well according to vehicle code in most states, any unsafe or unlawful vehicle condition is grounds for a traffic stop. That said, research (even by conservative universities) shows these types of stops are made selectively, with white drivers subject to them substantially less often.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/in ... as-n980556
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aerosreenivas
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:05 am

Why can't the officers just note down the vehicle number and charge that driver with a fine or ceasing his vehicle? Irrespective of the color of their skin.

Also, if he/she is a repeat offender than the officers can file a complaint and get the 'Arrest Order' from the court before arresting that individual.

Instead, what we are seeing is all the police officers selectively catching people of color and 'Subjecting Them To Insults' and simply 'Killing Them' in the name of 'Non-Compliance'.

So, to police officers a 'Black Traffic Offender' is no less of a threat than a 'Terrorist'?
 
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:17 am

af773atmsp wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
af773atmsp wrote:
Tensions were already rough with Chauvin trial going on, and this latest police shooting of a black male made it much more severe. Not a good time in the Twin Cities region, that's for sure.

2 days ago in the suburb of Brooklyn Center during a routine traffic stop, officers discovered Daunte Wright had an outstanding warrant for his arrest. Daunte managed to break free as one officer was trying to handcuff him, and a second officer pulled out what she thought was her taser and fired. She had actually pulled out her gun and shot Daunte, who then sped away and shortly after crashed. Daunte died from the gunshot wound.

Officer Kim Potter, who shot Daunte, has claimed she accidentally took out her handgun instead of her taser. Both her and the Brooklyn Center police chief have resigned.

Upon looking at the body camera footage, it appears there was 6 seconds between Potter pulling out her handgun and firing it. There's also the fact that a taser is much lighter than a handgun, plus it's bright yellow. An argument can be made that since it was a tense situation Potter simply made a tragic mistake, and she does sound distressed upon realizing she shot Daunte instead of tasing him. However, Potter had been an officer for 26 years. It's extremely rare for an officer to mistake their gun for a taser, and when it happens it's because they're improperly trained. Was she truly improperly trained this whole time?

Accident or not, a 20-year old with a son isn't coming home, and my region and the country as a whole are once again thrown into chaos with people, especially those of color, having a deep distrust of police. Will we learn something from this? I'm unsure we learned anything from the George Floyd case, so I won't hold my breath on that.

Should Daunte had just accepted arrest? Yes, but did he deserve to die for trying to flee? Absolutely not. This wasn't a mass shooter, terrorist, or some high profile criminal they were going after.

Very unfortunate and should have never happened. Three words describe how incidents of this type can be largely avoided: comply - don't flee


Tell that to Philando Castile. Oh wait you can't, because he died even though he complied and didn't flee.


So we should just focus on one abnormal incident and ignore the hundreds of millions of other incidents that have gone without incident?
 
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:46 am

Aaron747 wrote:
There's no way we will fund two years of training like Germany or Australia do
Why? Why is it possible to provide expensive equipment that would make every police force in the world (and more then a few militaries!) drool in envy, while training seems to be a fairly trivial affair.

Yes, more training is more expensive. But would it be more expensive then the settlements that have to be paid when things go wrong? Those settlements go quickly into the 100s of thousands if not millions.

So many people put the police on a pedestal. Blue lives matter and all that. Fair enough... but then also take the next step and provide them with the money, equipment and training to do a proper job.
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:53 am

petertenthije wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
There's no way we will fund two years of training like Germany or Australia do
Why? Why is it possible to provide expensive equipment that would make every police force in the world (and more then a few militaries!) drool in envy, while training seems to be a fairly trivial affair.

Yes, more training is more expensive. But would it be more expensive then the settlements that have to be paid when things go wrong? Those settlements go quickly into the 100s of thousands if not millions.

So many people put the police on a pedestal. Blue lives matter and all that. Fair enough... but then also take the next step and provide them with the money, equipment and training to do a proper job.


The public doesn't really pay attention to the cumulative cost of settlements - they see big price tags for salaries and pensions, and those are the priority. Salary and pension obligations are huge, especially in big US cities. There is simply no way to increase *ongoing* funding at that level without asking for tax increases. Equipment funds you name were partially assisted by federal money because they were related to siege preparedness after 9/11, and are not considered ongoing.
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af773atmsp
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:19 pm

Elkadad313 wrote:
af773atmsp wrote:
Tell that to Philando Castile. Oh wait you can't, because he died even though he complied and didn't flee.

"...can be LARGELY avoided..."


Tell that to Justine Damond. Oh wait you can't, she died because an officer got spooked and shot her even though she was the one who called the police.
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:31 pm

If you let the number sink in, it actually says something completely different. If you want to compare the numbers, let us look at the percentage of police officers killed by unarmed African American males.
 
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:21 pm

All sorts of wrongs in this arrest. The PD training does need to be revamped.

All of this comes down to.

An air freshener leads to Manslaughter death by Gun.

The people in Minnesota have a right to be angry about all of this. There is no logical reason for a stop other than profiling, and there is no reason for the death other than a terrible mistake by a police officer reaching for, grabbing, and firing the wrong weapon.
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:08 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
It's problematic that there's an arrest warrant out for him, and that he was shot while attempting to flee.

This is not George Floyd who was killed under restraint.


That's not problematic at all. This was an extrajudicial killing. The warrant could have been for anything as simple as missing a payment on a parking ticket.
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:32 pm

It's literal insanity that for many Americans resisting arrest or running from the police is justification for a an instant death sentence and execution without any due process. It's like asking "what's this thing, the Constitution, that you keep talking about?". Next up on the list will be talking back, maybe even just a sneer at a traffic stop and the police can just shoot you six times in the forehead and claim rudeness.
 
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:34 pm

casinterest wrote:
All sorts of wrongs in this arrest. The PD training does need to be revamped.

All of this comes down to.

An air freshener leads to Manslaughter death by Gun.

The people in Minnesota have a right to be angry about all of this. There is no logical reason for a stop other than profiling, and there is no reason for the death other than a terrible mistake by a police officer reaching for, grabbing, and firing the wrong weapon.


He wasn't pulled over for an air freshener, he was pulled over for an expired plate.

https://www.cbs58.com/news/daunte-wrigh ... at-he-said

What training needs to be revamped? We just let people with warrants go free now? He tried to flee and the officer thought she had the taser. I like the taser as a way not to use a chokehold etc. Should she know the difference? Of course. Now she faces the consequences. Comply with police. Put your hands in view and let them cuff you. If you are not handled with respect you can file a complaint later but to fight, resist and try to drive off is not an option in our society when you are under arrest.

wingman wrote:
It's literal insanity that for many Americans resisting arrest or running from the police is justification for a an instant death sentence and execution without any due process. It's like asking "what's this thing, the Constitution, that you keep talking about?". Next up on the list will be talking back, maybe even just a sneer at a traffic stop and the police can just shoot you six times in the forehead and claim rudeness.


Who is saying that justifies anything? The officer screwed up and will face the consequences. I think what you are referring to is the constant narrative that he was an innocent man just gunned down which is nonsense.
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:41 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Comply with police. Put your hands in view and let them cuff you. If you are not handled with respect you can file a complaint later but to fight, resist and try to drive off is not an option in our society when you are under arrest.


Again, it's not that simple. Perhaps for you and me it is, but not everyone in our society. People are aware of what's out there, what has been studied, and that makes them afraid.

https://news.stanford.edu/2020/05/05/ve ... fic-stops/

https://openpolicing.stanford.edu/findings/

Why would weapons be used on someone who has a misdemeanor warrant? Again, that's why de-escalation training is necessary. A more thorough understanding of psychology is all that's needed to steer a person's reactions in many of these situations.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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extender
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:42 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
I think what you are referring to is the constant narrative that he was an innocent man just gunned down which is nonsense.


Manslaughter, plain and simple. She will get more time than those two girls did for killing Mohammad Anwar.
 
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:43 pm

Elkadad313 wrote:
Three words describe how incidents of this type can be largely avoided: comply - don't flee

Picture a scenario where someone is walking through a park, minding their business, and someone comes up to them demanding their money. How many people would comply calmly and give them the money without fearing for their lives? How many would try and run out of fear/instinct?

For people of color, a police officer represents the SAME LEVEL OF THREAT as the example I gave. The reason is a combination of several influences and historical events, but the fact remains that fear will make a person flee, and that's not a reason for them to get shot.
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:44 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
All sorts of wrongs in this arrest. The PD training does need to be revamped.

All of this comes down to.

An air freshener leads to Manslaughter death by Gun.

The people in Minnesota have a right to be angry about all of this. There is no logical reason for a stop other than profiling, and there is no reason for the death other than a terrible mistake by a police officer reaching for, grabbing, and firing the wrong weapon.


He wasn't pulled over for an air freshener, he was pulled over for an expired plate.

https://www.cbs58.com/news/daunte-wrigh ... at-he-said

What training needs to be revamped? We just let people with warrants go free now? He tried to flee and the officer thought she had the taser. I like the taser as a way not to use a chokehold etc. Should she know the difference? Of course. Now she faces the consequences. Comply with police. Put your hands in view and let them cuff you. If you are not handled with respect you can file a complaint later but to fight, resist and try to drive off is not an option in our society when you are under arrest.
e.


Training on deescalating issues needs to be done. Training on arresting a suspect and keeping them away from the door to a vehicle. Training on figuring out what a taser is and is not. Many lives were ruined over this, and lessons are not just about police compliance.
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:51 pm

A breakdown of emphasis points in a training course used by Kiwi and Australian police:

USING COMMUNICATION TO RESOLVE CONFLICT
The point of employing de-escalation techniques is to effectively diffuse tension to allow for a constructive discussion to take place. However, these strategies are most effective when put into place even before the conflict arises. Officers can learn to do this by understanding how to recognise signs of aggression and resolve them by intervening and using their verbal communication skills.

In de-escalation training for police, officers will learn how to:

– Actively listen and practice empathy.

– Use communication rather than force to get others to cooperate.

– Decide what level of force is appropriate in time-sensitive situations.

– Adapt to using the least aggressive method possible in every confrontation.

– Learn to assess threats appropriately and respond with proportionality, rather than resorting to instinctual, but disproportionate and harmful responses

Our programs take into account human emotions and likely reactions and set out a guideline on how an officer should conduct themselves when faced with a disruptive yet non-threatening individual.


https://www.resolutioneducation.com.au/ ... -officers/
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extender
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:54 pm

The Kiwis and Aussies don't have to contend with the same elements that US cops face.
 
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:55 pm

There has to be a better way to conduct traffic stops, ideally new technology to provide no contact option, safe for LEOs and public.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:00 pm

extender wrote:
The Kiwis and Aussies don't have to contend with the same elements that US cops face.


This talking point is beyond tired. It's just fake. There are gang and drug elements in all English-speaking countries, with illicit access to weapons through the usual trafficking networks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QdsIrJEeys

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-23/ ... n/13010502

https://7news.com.au/news/crime/officer ... -c-2105771

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland- ... LS4ULXNLQ/

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeal ... arged.html
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:15 pm

In regards to the training, sure the length and subjects are something they could be revamped. But I think there’s an overhaul required of a larger scale.

Police Academies often have more in common with military training than anything else. Which makes sense, there’s life endangering risks, a firm hierarchy, etc, you need order and obedience. But the problem is that if you train like warriors...you end up with warriors.
 
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:18 pm

FGITD wrote:
In regards to the training, sure the length and subjects are something they could be revamped. But I think there’s an overhaul required of a larger scale.

Police Academies often have more in common with military training than anything else. Which makes sense, there’s life endangering risks, a firm hierarchy, etc, you need order and obedience. But the problem is that if you train like warriors...you end up with warriors.


What do you suggest? It’s hard to see public safety services functioning as a linear organization.
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extender
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:42 pm

How about people stop being stupid? Some people over-complicate things.
 
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:49 pm

extender wrote:
How about people stop being stupid? Some people over-complicate things.


Are you implying Daunte Wright was stupid for trying to flee, or the officer was stupid for thinking she had a taser instead of a gun, or both?
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casinterest
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:53 pm

extender wrote:
How about people stop being stupid? Some people over-complicate things.


Some people over simplify things because they can't deal with complications when things do not go the way they are expected too. There are complex issues with people that sometimes require more training.

Remember.
Pilots spend a lot of their time in simulators going over what could possibly go wrong, and how to handle it, even if the chances are remote.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
extender
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:57 pm

Apples and oranges. Until airplanes start developing minds of their own, they are predictable. People are not.

Wasn't twenty one yet, and being in possession of one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgH1hVJYaL0

There's part of your gun problem right there
 
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casinterest
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:00 pm

extender wrote:
Apples and oranges. Until airplanes start developing minds of their own, they are predictable. People are not.

Wasn't twenty one yet, and being in possession of one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgH1hVJYaL0

There's part of your gun problem right there


People are not predictable, and that is the point of training and descalation
You ask everyone to be simple and comply, and that is not possible by your own definition. Planes are a lot easier, except when the data is bad.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
Airontario
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:01 pm

extender wrote:
How about people stop being stupid? Some people over-complicate things.


Totally agree. If you're stupid enough to think your handgun is a taser, you probably shouldn't be a police officer.
 
extender
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:04 pm

casinterest wrote:
Planes are a lot easier, except when the data is bad.


What is this, gibberish?
 
extender
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:06 pm

And so it doesn't get swept under the rug,by our friends advocating gun control, the thug mentality probably had nothing to do with this predisposition to police encounters.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:11 pm

extender wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Planes are a lot easier, except when the data is bad.


What is this, gibberish?



You have never heard of bad inputs? Or maybe the whole 737 max?
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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casinterest
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:13 pm

extender wrote:
And so it doesn't get swept under the rug,by our friends advocating gun control, the thug mentality probably had nothing to do with this predisposition to police encounters.



When you have folks that dehumanize every criminal, those folks should not be in police work. Generalizing does not help with individual arrests. The use of racist or generalized terms such as "Thug" does not solve the issues by individuals when they make mistakes, are scared, or have anxiety.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
extender
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:28 pm

Oh dear, leave it to some to throw the race card out where it doesn't exist; "thug" has been around since at least 1810. Mistakes, absolutely, but Wright was a product of his culture.
 
GDB
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:31 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
A breakdown of emphasis points in a training course used by Kiwi and Australian police:

USING COMMUNICATION TO RESOLVE CONFLICT
The point of employing de-escalation techniques is to effectively diffuse tension to allow for a constructive discussion to take place. However, these strategies are most effective when put into place even before the conflict arises. Officers can learn to do this by understanding how to recognise signs of aggression and resolve them by intervening and using their verbal communication skills.

In de-escalation training for police, officers will learn how to:

– Actively listen and practice empathy.

– Use communication rather than force to get others to cooperate.

– Decide what level of force is appropriate in time-sensitive situations.

– Adapt to using the least aggressive method possible in every confrontation.

– Learn to assess threats appropriately and respond with proportionality, rather than resorting to instinctual, but disproportionate and harmful responses

Our programs take into account human emotions and likely reactions and set out a guideline on how an officer should conduct themselves when faced with a disruptive yet non-threatening individual.


https://www.resolutioneducation.com.au/ ... -officers/


You have described standard police practice in just about every Western democratic nation, most of whom have routinely armed police yet manage not to have the body count of unarmed people, almost all non violent, that the US has.
They also do not have that shitload of surplus military gear, up to and including in some cases tracked vehicles, some of which ended up in small PD's and Sheriff's Depts nowhere any target for a terrorist attack.
Money for that but not for proper training that self respecting police service do in most Western nations.
Add in deep seated racism, a corrupt Police Union (no GOP union busting for them), sections of US society that is it seems deeply paranoid.

And here are some of Americas finest in a situation involving a US soldier in uniform but driving while black in Virginia, luckily he was despite his compliance, not shot and at least one of the moronic thugs in blue got sacked.
Damn right the soldier is suing the dept.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6bgWQXhrdw
 
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casinterest
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:33 pm

extender wrote:
Oh dear, leave it to some to throw the race card out where it doesn't exist; "thug" has been around since at least 1810. Mistakes, absolutely, but Wright was a product of his culture.



And more generalized racism with your "culture" remark.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
N583JB
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:50 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
extender wrote:
The Kiwis and Aussies don't have to contend with the same elements that US cops face.


This talking point is beyond tired. It's just fake. There are gang and drug elements in all English-speaking countries, with illicit access to weapons through the usual trafficking networks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QdsIrJEeys

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-23/ ... n/13010502

https://7news.com.au/news/crime/officer ... -c-2105771

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland- ... LS4ULXNLQ/

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeal ... arged.html


How many police officers are murdered each year in the UK? A couple? Compared to dozens who are shot to death each year in the United States? In 2019 alone 50 police officers were shot to death here. It is simply much more dangerous to be a police officer in the United States than it is to be one in the UK, or Australia, or New Zealand, or Japan...
 
N583JB
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:52 pm

ANITIX87 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Three words describe how incidents of this type can be largely avoided: comply - don't flee

Picture a scenario where someone is walking through a park, minding their business, and someone comes up to them demanding their money. How many people would comply calmly and give them the money without fearing for their lives? How many would try and run out of fear/instinct?

For people of color, a police officer represents the SAME LEVEL OF THREAT as the example I gave. The reason is a combination of several influences and historical events, but the fact remains that fear will make a person flee, and that's not a reason for them to get shot.


In 2019, 9 unarmed black people and 19 unarmed white people were shot and killed by the police. This out of tens of millions of traffic stops that year. Simply put, black or white-your risk of being killed by a police officer on a traffic stop while doing nothing wrong are essentially as close to zero as they can get.
 
bennett123
Posts: 10813
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:15 pm

N583JB wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
extender wrote:
The Kiwis and Aussies don't have to contend with the same elements that US cops face.


This talking point is beyond tired. It's just fake. There are gang and drug elements in all English-speaking countries, with illicit access to weapons through the usual trafficking networks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QdsIrJEeys

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-23/ ... n/13010502

https://7news.com.au/news/crime/officer ... -c-2105771

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland- ... LS4ULXNLQ/

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeal ... arged.html


How many police officers are murdered each year in the UK? A couple? Compared to dozens who are shot to death each year in the United States? In 2019 alone 50 police officers were shot to death here. It is simply much more dangerous to be a police officer in the United States than it is to be one in the UK, or Australia, or New Zealand, or Japan...


You are overlooking two points;

1. That the US population is about 5 times that of the UK and you have a lot more Cops TO get shot.

2. Second Amendment. In the UK Cops and criminals are not routinely armed.
 
N583JB
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:40 pm

bennett123 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

This talking point is beyond tired. It's just fake. There are gang and drug elements in all English-speaking countries, with illicit access to weapons through the usual trafficking networks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QdsIrJEeys

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-23/ ... n/13010502

https://7news.com.au/news/crime/officer ... -c-2105771

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland- ... LS4ULXNLQ/

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeal ... arged.html


How many police officers are murdered each year in the UK? A couple? Compared to dozens who are shot to death each year in the United States? In 2019 alone 50 police officers were shot to death here. It is simply much more dangerous to be a police officer in the United States than it is to be one in the UK, or Australia, or New Zealand, or Japan...


You are overlooking two points;

1. That the US population is about 5 times that of the UK and you have a lot more Cops TO get shot.

2. Second Amendment. In the UK Cops and criminals are not routinely armed.


1. Combine the UK, Australia, Japan, and Germany and you have a population roughly equal to that of the US but with far fewer police fatalities between those nations combined and the US.

2. Agreed, which is why it is much more dangerous for police officers in the US. There are more guns than people here, and criminals are routinely armed.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:52 pm

casinterest wrote:

Training on deescalating issues needs to be done. Training on arresting a suspect and keeping them away from the door to a vehicle. Training on figuring out what a taser is and is not. Many lives were ruined over this, and lessons are not just about police compliance.


How do you de-escalate someone who won't be taken into custody because they know with warrants they are going to jail? How do you de-escalate this person who jumps in his car and guns it and drags a police officer and puts the others in danger? I am seeing a lot of posts here that are code for just letting people go. That is called Anarchy.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:59 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Training on deescalating issues needs to be done. Training on arresting a suspect and keeping them away from the door to a vehicle. Training on figuring out what a taser is and is not. Many lives were ruined over this, and lessons are not just about police compliance.


How do you de-escalate someone who won't be taken into custody because they know with warrants they are going to jail? How do you de-escalate this person who jumps in his car and guns it and drags a police officer and puts the others in danger? I am seeing a lot of posts here that are code for just letting people go. That is called Anarchy.


You get training. You also learn to remember where your taser and your gun are. It isn't Anarchy unless those involved fail to learn from the mistakes and get training to handle these situations better.
Right now their is a police officer facing 2nd degree manslaughter, and a dead man. Training and situational awareness could have helped everyone involved.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain

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