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Aaron747
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:10 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
I don't know what video you watched but Wright was fighting all the way.


That is absolutely not true. I provided a link to the video where he's standing passively waiting to be cuffed - did you watch it? Restrained by just the officer who failed to cuff him - if Wright was "fighting all the way" why were the other officers just standing there watching?

Where's the fighting whilst waiting to be cuffed?
Image

Still standing there passively some ten seconds later when Potter steps in to help with the cuffing:
Image

Image source: screen grabs from YouTube video https://youtu.be/bYNX0QiH5l4?t=35

The only thing that could be described as fighting is what happened after he slipped out of the grasp of Officer Cuffs and jumped back into his car.

Feel free to post a video showing where he was "fighting all the way" whilst being cuffed.


No need, if you really think he was justified to bolt after the officer didn't get the cuffs on immediately and you are also criticizing the officer's competence because he didn't get them right away then our convo is pointless and you sympathize will people with warrants. I don't believe in that and again one needs to look to NYC to see what the result is for coddling people who look to do harm to others. Just like in that DC carjacking as well. Throw in the no bail stuff and it's anything goes. No thank you. I believe in respecting police. Your argument makes no sense. Wright was going to flee all the way, which is what Blake did. End result will never be good.


Always a pleasure to see absolutist views on a complex issue requiring big helpings of nuance. :boggled: This is part of why society is unable to discuss things in a productive manner.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
N583JB
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:27 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
N583JB wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:

You let them go and catch then another day. Many cities in the US have "no chase" policies so that there won't be cars flying at 100mph through city streets.


That is not a feasible option for someone with gun warrants. So, you let him go....home, to retrieve his gun. And he knows the police are after him. That will end well, right? Of course not....that would put everyone else (including his own family) in danger. You can't just let criminals go.



Sure it is. I bet she wishes she let him go today. Now she's charged 2nd-degree manslaughter. (Should be 2nd-degree murder.) And If I were a major insurer in that city, I'd be counting my lucky charms the place doesn't burn to the ground.


I bet she is wishing that she had tased him, which would have been entirely appropriate.
 
johns624
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:15 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
N583JB wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:

You let them go and catch then another day. Many cities in the US have "no chase" policies so that there won't be cars flying at 100mph through city streets.


That is not a feasible option for someone with gun warrants. So, you let him go....home, to retrieve his gun. And he knows the police are after him. That will end well, right? Of course not....that would put everyone else (including his own family) in danger. You can't just let criminals go.



Sure it is. I bet she wishes she let him go today. Now she's charged 2nd-degree manslaughter. (Should be 2nd-degree murder.) And If I were a major insurer in that city, I'd be counting my lucky charms the place doesn't burn to the ground.
Nah, it's manslaughter. For murder, it has to be intentional. She just made the biggest screwup of her life.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:31 pm

johns624 wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
N583JB wrote:

That is not a feasible option for someone with gun warrants. So, you let him go....home, to retrieve his gun. And he knows the police are after him. That will end well, right? Of course not....that would put everyone else (including his own family) in danger. You can't just let criminals go.



Sure it is. I bet she wishes she let him go today. Now she's charged 2nd-degree manslaughter. (Should be 2nd-degree murder.) And If I were a major insurer in that city, I'd be counting my lucky charms the place doesn't burn to the ground.
Nah, it's manslaughter. For murder, it has to be intentional. She just made the biggest screwup of her life.


A taser and a gun are different in weight, grip, and color. Most law enforcement jurisdictions in the US advise having the taser and the duty gun on opposite sides of the belt. She knew exactly what she was doing, or she was a fool. Either way, not someone who should be a police officer. I don't care for most of the conservative, pro-police views of some in this thread, so I'll let you have it.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
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scbriml
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:38 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
No need, if you really think he was justified to bolt after the officer didn't get the cuffs on immediately and you are also criticizing the officer's competence because he didn't get them right away then our convo is pointless and you sympathize will people with warrants.


You could be more wrong, but not by much.

"No need" - what you mean is, you can't show a video where Wright was "fighting all the way", or you can't admit you were wrong and that he was passively waiting to be cuffed.

Please show me where I said his attempted escape from arrest was justified. I never said that, I said the decision to try and flee was bad. When have I said I sympathised with people with warrants? Show me. You can't, because you're just making stuff up.

Yes, I have sympathy that he was shot dead unnecessarily and that was due in large part to the incompetence of multiple officers involved in his arrest.

NIKV69 wrote:
Your argument makes no sense.


It makes no sense to you because you simply refuse to accept what we've all seen - Wright was not initially resisting arrest, despite your repeated, unsubstantiated claim he was "fighting all the way".

NIKV69 wrote:
Wright was going to flee all the way


Except he wasn't until a poorly trained junior officer couldn't cuff a passive man and gave Wright time to think about his options and then make a bad decision.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:40 am

NIKV69 wrote:
I believe in respecting police.



You also believe in never having been part of a demographic the police have shown little, if any, professionalism toward.

Perhaps when you have a valid reason to suspect law enforcement is being as careless with your demographic as it very obviously is with his you will understand that wishful thinking does not apply here.
Well, you know what they say. Whatever doesn't kill you...
... Must not be an MD-11.
 
art
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:22 am

scbriml wrote:
I must have missed all the posts where folks said it was a good idea for him to try and flee and that none of this is his fault. :confused:


I have not seen any video but if it is true that Duarte tried to flee, he did so knowing that that the police attempting to detain him were armed and there was a possibility that they might use their weapons to prevent him escaping. If he chose to evade being taken into custody, he chose to take a potentially fatal risk.
 
extender
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:25 am

art wrote:
I have not seen any video but if it is true that Duarte tried to flee, he did so knowing that that the police attempting to detain him were armed and there was a possibility that they might use their weapons to prevent him escaping. If he chose to evade being taken into custody, he chose to take a potentially fatal risk.


His actions had fatal consequences. Same goes for people that they know are going in, and don't come out and admit they have a concealed weapon. Example:

Bodycam Captures Police Shootout With Armed Man at Hospital in Columbus, Ohio

He had plenty of opportunities to come clean, and he wouldn't have gotten shot. But I suppose the police overreacted to him. /sarcasm
 
bigGAplane
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:21 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
I believe in respecting police.



You also believe in never having been part of a demographic the police have shown little, if any, professionalism toward.

Perhaps when you have a valid reason to suspect law enforcement is being as careless with your demographic as it very obviously is with his you will understand that wishful thinking does not apply here.


Oh stop it with the lies. A demographic is exponentially more violent and that's why there's more police encounters as well as a greater use of force. Stop with your liberal "victimhood" mentality that blames everything on someone else.
 
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seb146
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:52 pm

bigGAplane wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
I believe in respecting police.



You also believe in never having been part of a demographic the police have shown little, if any, professionalism toward.

Perhaps when you have a valid reason to suspect law enforcement is being as careless with your demographic as it very obviously is with his you will understand that wishful thinking does not apply here.


Oh stop it with the lies. A demographic is exponentially more violent and that's why there's more police encounters as well as a greater use of force. Stop with your liberal "victimhood" mentality that blames everything on someone else.


When there are more cops in one area, they are going to see more crime. Put cops in white suburban neighborhoods and see what happens. I guarantee shootings by cops will decrease dramatically.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:35 am

When posting facts, post a source.

Discuss the topic, not other users.

On both counts, this is your warning.
7 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
Elkadad313
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:34 am

seb146 wrote:
When there are more cops in one area, they are going to see more crime. Put cops in white suburban neighborhoods and see what happens. I guarantee shootings by cops will decrease dramatically.

Huh?
 
bigGAplane
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:21 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
When there are more cops in one area, they are going to see more crime. Put cops in white suburban neighborhoods and see what happens. I guarantee shootings by cops will decrease dramatically.

Huh?


You're not the only one scratching your head.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:06 pm

GDB wrote:
And here are some of Americas finest in a situation involving a US soldier in uniform but driving while black in Virginia, luckily he was despite his compliance, not shot and at least one of the moronic thugs in blue got sacked.
Damn right the soldier is suing the dept.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6bgWQXhrdw


and so the taxpayers pay.

The police pension funds need to pay. That will put an end to this nonsense almost instantly.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
bpatus297
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:24 pm

DocLightning wrote:
GDB wrote:
And here are some of Americas finest in a situation involving a US soldier in uniform but driving while black in Virginia, luckily he was despite his compliance, not shot and at least one of the moronic thugs in blue got sacked.
Damn right the soldier is suing the dept.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6bgWQXhrdw


and so the taxpayers pay.

The police pension funds need to pay. That will put an end to this nonsense almost instantly.


Should pilot unions pay if a pilot is found in error in an aircraft accident?
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:10 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
Should pilot unions pay if a pilot is found in error in an aircraft accident?


If we were to see a pattern of pilots intentionally flying planes into the ground, then perhaps. But that is not a valid analogy.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
LittleFokker
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:10 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
GDB wrote:
And here are some of Americas finest in a situation involving a US soldier in uniform but driving while black in Virginia, luckily he was despite his compliance, not shot and at least one of the moronic thugs in blue got sacked.
Damn right the soldier is suing the dept.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6bgWQXhrdw


and so the taxpayers pay.

The police pension funds need to pay. That will put an end to this nonsense almost instantly.


Should pilot unions pay if a pilot is found in error in an aircraft accident?


Bad comparison, because if compensation from an airline accident is given to victims and/or families, it is paid out by the airlines or insurance, rarely is public money involved in such compensation. With police, currently wrongdoing settlements are coming out of the general municipal fund, meaning the public is sacrificing opportunity cost for other municipal needs in order to allow corrupt police to keep on corrupting. If it's not costing any element of the police force to screw up, there is no incentive to improve. If an airline is paying on behalf of its pilots, there is incentive for the airline to ensure high standards from those pilots. So take it out of the pension, take it out of the shiny new toys budget - I don't care. Just as long as there is some incentive for the police to improve.
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
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seb146
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:12 pm

bigGAplane wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
When there are more cops in one area, they are going to see more crime. Put cops in white suburban neighborhoods and see what happens. I guarantee shootings by cops will decrease dramatically.

Huh?


You're not the only one scratching your head.


It has been assumed that neighborhoods that are mostly minorities need more cops so more cops are put in those areas. The first response by cops is to assume the minorities are guilty. The same crimes committed in wealthy or suburban or mostly White neighborhoods get a "oh, well... whaddya gonna do?" attitude.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
bigGAplane
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:17 pm

seb146 wrote:
bigGAplane wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Huh?


You're not the only one scratching your head.


It has been assumed that neighborhoods that are mostly minorities need more cops so more cops are put in those areas. The first response by cops is to assume the minorities are guilty. The same crimes committed in wealthy or suburban or mostly White neighborhoods get a "oh, well... whaddya gonna do?" attitude.


You have absolutely no idea how policing works do you? Police assets and resources are deployed based on crime rates...not the skin color of those in the neighborhood.
 
Elkadad313
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:54 pm

seb146 wrote:
bigGAplane wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Huh?


You're not the only one scratching your head.


It has been assumed that neighborhoods that are mostly minorities need more cops so more cops are put in those areas. The first response by cops is to assume the minorities are guilty. The same crimes committed in wealthy or suburban or mostly White neighborhoods get a "oh, well... whaddya gonna do?" attitude.

When polled, a majority of Blacks say they want either no reduction or an INCREASE in policing in their area. They should be thankful you are not their Mayor or police chief.
 
bigGAplane
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:56 pm

Elkadad313 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
bigGAplane wrote:

You're not the only one scratching your head.


It has been assumed that neighborhoods that are mostly minorities need more cops so more cops are put in those areas. The first response by cops is to assume the minorities are guilty. The same crimes committed in wealthy or suburban or mostly White neighborhoods get a "oh, well... whaddya gonna do?" attitude.

When polled, a majority of Blacks say they want either no reduction or an INCREASE in policing in their area. They should be thankful you are not their Mayor or police chief.


This is correct.

https://news.yahoo.com/poll-most-black- ... 11177.html

81% want either the same level of policing or more policing in their neighborhood.

19% want less policing.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:07 pm

bigGAplane wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

It has been assumed that neighborhoods that are mostly minorities need more cops so more cops are put in those areas. The first response by cops is to assume the minorities are guilty. The same crimes committed in wealthy or suburban or mostly White neighborhoods get a "oh, well... whaddya gonna do?" attitude.

When polled, a majority of Blacks say they want either no reduction or an INCREASE in policing in their area. They should be thankful you are not their Mayor or police chief.


This is correct.

https://news.yahoo.com/poll-most-black- ... 11177.html

81% want either the same level of policing or more policing in their neighborhood.

19% want less policing.


Yep, just as ‘defund the police’ is not a major movement no matter how many times right wing TV and radio hosts try to insist it is. Top support among Dems hit 30% last year? That’s nothing, and it’s lower now.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
bigGAplane
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:23 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
bigGAplane wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
When polled, a majority of Blacks say they want either no reduction or an INCREASE in policing in their area. They should be thankful you are not their Mayor or police chief.


This is correct.

https://news.yahoo.com/poll-most-black- ... 11177.html

81% want either the same level of policing or more policing in their neighborhood.

19% want less policing.


Yep, just as ‘defund the police’ is not a major movement no matter how many times right wing TV and radio hosts try to insist it is. Top support among Dems hit 30% last year? That’s nothing, and it’s lower now.


Actually that number is 34% among democrats as of last month. That's more than 1 in 3 supporting it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 599232001/

Also worth a mention is the fact that 67% of Democrats are in favor of reducing police funding and reallocating part of the police budgets to "social programs".

This is literally the exact opposite of what we should be doing if we want to see crime rates drop.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:29 pm

bigGAplane wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
bigGAplane wrote:

This is correct.

https://news.yahoo.com/poll-most-black- ... 11177.html

81% want either the same level of policing or more policing in their neighborhood.

19% want less policing.


Yep, just as ‘defund the police’ is not a major movement no matter how many times right wing TV and radio hosts try to insist it is. Top support among Dems hit 30% last year? That’s nothing, and it’s lower now.


Actually that number is 34% among democrats as of last month. That's more than 1 in 3 supporting it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 599232001/

Also worth a mention is the fact that 67% of Democrats are in favor of reducing police funding and reallocating part of the police budgets to "social programs".

This is literally the exact opposite of what we should be doing if we want to see crime rates drop.


Those 1 in 3 are basically college students and their views will change once they’re funding their own lives....still not a major movement. 3 in 4? That would be signiificant.

Funding social programs is absolutely necessary depending on what they are - mental health programs, for example. One conservative here said yesterday we should blank check fund mental health care due to the crime prevention impact it would have. Major mental health treatment for teens, just as one example, would prevent the majority of future criminals. That should be done in concert with improved training and wider support resources for active duty police. Taxpayers whine about increases but improvements cost money at the end of the day.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
bigGAplane
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:25 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Those 1 in 3 are basically college students and their views will change once they’re funding their own lives....still not a major movement. 3 in 4? That would be signiificant.



You mean they'll most likely become conservatives? Because that's exactly what happens. Young college age "liberals" eventually turn into conservatives once they learn a little about life and learn how hard work offers a much bigger reward than government welfare.

No, not all...but there's a reason that as people grow older only a minority remain "liberals".
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:58 am

bigGAplane wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Those 1 in 3 are basically college students and their views will change once they’re funding their own lives....still not a major movement. 3 in 4? That would be signiificant.



You mean they'll most likely become conservatives? Because that's exactly what happens. Young college age "liberals" eventually turn into conservatives once they learn a little about life and learn how hard work offers a much bigger reward than government welfare.

No, not all...but there's a reason that as people grow older only a minority remain "liberals".


Pretty broad strokes you’re speaking in there. What is actually typical is people remain liberal on social issues and become more conservative on economic issues like taxes and handouts. But at the end of day people with a head screwed on straight will think for themselves. There were a lot of pro-Palestinian university demonstrations in the 90s when I was in college, and despite being a liberal student myself, I got into it with some of them for ignoring the role of Hamas terrorists. I also stopped registering Dem when they voted for Iraq war in 2002 and have been independent since.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
art
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:24 am

bigGAplane wrote:
Also worth a mention is the fact that 67% of Democrats are in favor of reducing police funding and reallocating part of the police budgets to "social programs".

This is literally the exact opposite of what we should be doing if we want to see crime rates drop.


If it is your opinion that improvements in education and living conditions are not reflected in a drop in crime rates, I think you are mistaken.
 
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seb146
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:47 am

bigGAplane wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
bigGAplane wrote:

This is correct.

https://news.yahoo.com/poll-most-black- ... 11177.html

81% want either the same level of policing or more policing in their neighborhood.

19% want less policing.


Yep, just as ‘defund the police’ is not a major movement no matter how many times right wing TV and radio hosts try to insist it is. Top support among Dems hit 30% last year? That’s nothing, and it’s lower now.


Actually that number is 34% among democrats as of last month. That's more than 1 in 3 supporting it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 599232001/

Also worth a mention is the fact that 67% of Democrats are in favor of reducing police funding and reallocating part of the police budgets to "social programs".

This is literally the exact opposite of what we should be doing if we want to see crime rates drop.


You mean Democrats want fewer arrests and more help? And that is bad why?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
bigGAplane
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:06 pm

art wrote:
bigGAplane wrote:
Also worth a mention is the fact that 67% of Democrats are in favor of reducing police funding and reallocating part of the police budgets to "social programs".

This is literally the exact opposite of what we should be doing if we want to see crime rates drop.


If it is your opinion that improvements in education and living conditions are not reflected in a drop in crime rates, I think you are mistaken.


The biggest contributor to crime is poverty. I think we can all agree on that? I hope...

The Southern Poverty Law Center says that there's 3 simple things you need to do in order to not live in poverty.

1. Graduate High School

2. Have a full-time job

3. Don't have a child until you're married

So let's be realistic here. The neighborhoods with the highest crime rates in nearly every large city are predominantly black neighborhoods. This isn't opinion, this is just a fact.

How about instead of blaming the police for everything we start making sure black kids actually graduate high school? How about we make sure that black women stop having kids out of wedlock? How about we stop indoctrinating black kids into believing they're victims and the "system" is racist against them? That right there will go a LONG way in improving the crime rates and living conditions in these neighborhoods.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:26 pm

bigGAplane wrote:
art wrote:
bigGAplane wrote:
Also worth a mention is the fact that 67% of Democrats are in favor of reducing police funding and reallocating part of the police budgets to "social programs".

This is literally the exact opposite of what we should be doing if we want to see crime rates drop.


If it is your opinion that improvements in education and living conditions are not reflected in a drop in crime rates, I think you are mistaken.


The biggest contributor to crime is poverty. I think we can all agree on that? I hope...

The Southern Poverty Law Center says that there's 3 simple things you need to do in order to not live in poverty.

1. Graduate High School

2. Have a full-time job

3. Don't have a child until you're married

So let's be realistic here. The neighborhoods with the highest crime rates in nearly every large city are predominantly black neighborhoods. This isn't opinion, this is just a fact.

How about instead of blaming the police for everything we start making sure black kids actually graduate high school? How about we make sure that black women stop having kids out of wedlock? How about we stop indoctrinating black kids into believing they're victims and the "system" is racist against them? That right there will go a LONG way in improving the crime rates and living conditions in these neighborhoods.


Oh, we're trying to get serious now, I see. Finally....

So how do you propose to ensure populations in specific areas are able to do 1-2-3 reliably? Hint: poverty is one big part, as you suggest, but 'indoctrination' per se is mostly irrelevant. Evidence? 1-2-3 are rare in poverty-stricken areas of every ethnicity.

Are you really prepared to pay and support the kind of structural reforms necessary to make 1-2-3 a reality in low income places?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
GDB
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:40 pm

Here's what a Chief Of Police in a UK city with like most major ones, issues with poverty and crime, has to say;
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... lice-chief
 
bpatus297
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:47 pm

DocLightning wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
Should pilot unions pay if a pilot is found in error in an aircraft accident?


If we were to see a pattern of pilots intentionally flying planes into the ground, then perhaps. But that is not a valid analogy.



Except the pattern you are assuming exists doesn't. The media and other organizations are pushing a false narrative about police shooting. Do you know how many unamend black men are shot by police?" I do, think about what you think it is them google it, you will probably be way off. Also understand that "unarmed" doesn't necessarily mean unjustified. Here is an decent article that lays out the statistics of of police shootings.

https://www.maciverinstitute.com/2021/0 ... n-america/
 
bpatus297
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:53 pm

GDB wrote:
Here's what a Chief Of Police in a UK city with like most major ones, issues with poverty and crime, has to say;
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... lice-chief


I completely agree that poverty and socioeconomic status is the largest contributor to crime rates. There are programs in place to help people better their conditions, but they are underfunded and not riddled with problems.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 15023
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Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:03 pm

GDB wrote:
Here's what a Chief Of Police in a UK city with like most major ones, issues with poverty and crime, has to say;
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... lice-chief


He is correct. There are pockets of US municipalities that have tried to do that well, but best practices are by and large still a rarity.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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seb146
Posts: 23734
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:48 am

bpatus297 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
Should pilot unions pay if a pilot is found in error in an aircraft accident?


If we were to see a pattern of pilots intentionally flying planes into the ground, then perhaps. But that is not a valid analogy.



Except the pattern you are assuming exists doesn't. The media and other organizations are pushing a false narrative about police shooting. Do you know how many unamend black men are shot by police?" I do, think about what you think it is them google it, you will probably be way off. Also understand that "unarmed" doesn't necessarily mean unjustified. Here is an decent article that lays out the statistics of of police shootings.

https://www.maciverinstitute.com/2021/0 ... n-america/


ZERO unarmed people of ANY race should not be killed by cops. But, here we are. Cops just shoot as the first option. They seem to injure white people and kill minorities.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Elkadad313
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:55 am

Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:47 am

seb146 wrote:
ZERO unarmed people of ANY race should not be killed by cops. But, here we are. Cops just shoot as the first option. They seem to injure white people and kill minorities.

'Seem' is the operative word here.
 
bpatus297
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:51 am

Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:02 pm

seb146 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:

If we were to see a pattern of pilots intentionally flying planes into the ground, then perhaps. But that is not a valid analogy.



Except the pattern you are assuming exists doesn't. The media and other organizations are pushing a false narrative about police shooting. Do you know how many unamend black men are shot by police?" I do, think about what you think it is them google it, you will probably be way off. Also understand that "unarmed" doesn't necessarily mean unjustified. Here is an decent article that lays out the statistics of of police shootings.

https://www.maciverinstitute.com/2021/0 ... n-america/


ZERO unarmed people of ANY race should not be killed by cops. But, here we are. Cops just shoot as the first option. They seem to injure white people and kill minorities.


First off, do police shoot as a first option? The facts and statistics don’t support your claim. In 2019 ( the last year I could find arrest data) there were 1,004 people killed by being shot by the police (https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 ... e-by-race/), and there were 10,085,210 arrests (https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2). That equals .000095% chance of being shot to death by the police. That percentage is just based off of arrest numbers, not encounters, so the actual percentage is even smaller as most encounters don’t end in an arrest. I would hardly say that number supports your assertation that police shoot as the first option.

As far as shooting unarmed people, what if a person was choking an officer? The officer would be 100% justified in shooting that “unarmed” person. What is a person was trying to drown the officer, push them off a bridge or building? I can think of more scenarios that would be justified too, but I hope you get the point. Unarmed doesn’t mean that a person cannot still pose and imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury to the officer or a third person. BTW, that is the legal standard to which lethal force is authorized in most US jurisdictions. When you charge an officer to protect and serve the public, some times the protection part means they will have to use force. What would you do if someone trying to drown you? I highly doubt you would just let them, rather I would think you would use whatever means necessary to keep from being drowned.

Policing can be ugly and evoke very emotional reactions when the “ugly” side is witnessed. Of course the emotional response from a normal and sane individual is of shock and sometimes horror, it should be. But that doesn’t make what the officer did wrong. Why do you think officers get PTSD and have other mental anguish? They see the worst that society has to offer on a regular basis. Could you deal with death on a regular basis? Could you deal with a young child hiding because mommy or daddy is hitting the other parent and is afraid that they will get hit too? Could you deal with seeing the direct aftermath of rape? Could you deal with seeing a family killed in a car accident and having to tell their loved ones they are gone? All of these, and more, are what a police officer has to deal with on a regular basis.

Yes the George Floyd killing was wrong, I don’t think you will find many officers at all who disagree with that. DC made several mistakes in the way that was handled. I don’t know if they were intentional or not, but it doesn’t matter. Floyd was killed and DC didn’t help him when he went into distress, intentional or not, it doesn’t matter. DC must pay for that mistake. Some officers may feel that DC may have not have had a fair trial due to stupid comments and actions of national politicians, including POTUS, but that is just about fair treatment under the law. Let him have his fair day in court, the video and his actions speak for themselves. He was an idiot for not taking whatever plea hit the table, but a fair trial is his right even with as guilty as he is.

Duante Wright was an accident, a very very tragic accident, he didn’t deserve to die. The officer is paying for her actions, she lost her job and was charged.

Of course there are bad cops, but they are in the minority. Things can and will go bad any time you deal with people that are either committing crimes or are having a mental episode. There really isn’t anything you can do to change that. Police need to do the best they can, and a vast majority of the time they do an amazing job.

Statistics of police using force are not that straight forward. First not all encounters are reported. If nothing comes from an encounter, a large part of the time they aren’t reported. Before going on, let me clarify, I know there are racists in law enforcement. There are racists in every walk of life, why would police be immune? With that said, I truly believe it’s nowhere near what the media wants you to believe. Back to statistics, looking just at the number of people killed by the police broken down by race, black people have a greater chance than white people of being killed when looking at the percentage of population. That is a true statement, but it only looks at the percentage of general population. It doesn’t tell the whole story. Most people (all races) in the US don’t have regular contact with the police. So now look at the numbers killed by the police (by race) but compare that to the number of police encounters/contacts broken down by race look at the amount of violent crimes committed by race, etc. That shows a much different picture, which is more correct? I would say neither, it’s got to be somewhere in the middle. Another valid question, if police are so racist, why are Hispanics generally killed at the same rate as whites? I fully understand that Hispanics are Caucasian, but I think its fair to consider them a separate race for this conversation as the statistics track them as separate. BTW, I think there is only one race, the human race, everyone else just has a different skin tone. Heck, with four people in my house, we all have a different skin color.

Right now it is in vouge to call police racist, and that is your prerogative and right, but nothing will change or get better is you are not willing to have an honest conversation about the issue. Hell, race was never even brought up in the Floyd trial. BTW, I hope DC rots in jail for a long time. No one is talking about all of the good police do in communities. A Gallup pole last year showed that 20% of black people want the police to spend more time it their neighborhood, 61% want the time to stay the same, with only 19% wanting less. That doesn’t tell me that black people don’t want to defund the police, 80% want the same or more vs 19% for less. OF those polled, Gallup found that black people are only slightly more likely to see police in their neighborhoods than other races. The same survey did find that black people think they are far mor likely to have a bad encounter with the police. That is a problem that needs to be addressed. What is the answer? I don’t know, but what I do know is that we will never find that answer if we keep just generalizing police as being racists. There needs to be an honest discussion on all sides.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/316571/bla ... sence.aspx
 
art
Posts: 4147
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:35 pm

@bpatus297 Thanks for your cogent contribution.
 
bpatus297
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:51 am

Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:03 pm

art wrote:
@bpatus297 Thanks for your cogent contribution.


De nada, I just want an honest converstaion about the issue. Thats it.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23734
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:01 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:


Except the pattern you are assuming exists doesn't. The media and other organizations are pushing a false narrative about police shooting. Do you know how many unamend black men are shot by police?" I do, think about what you think it is them google it, you will probably be way off. Also understand that "unarmed" doesn't necessarily mean unjustified. Here is an decent article that lays out the statistics of of police shootings.

https://www.maciverinstitute.com/2021/0 ... n-america/


ZERO unarmed people of ANY race should not be killed by cops. But, here we are. Cops just shoot as the first option. They seem to injure white people and kill minorities.


First off, do police shoot as a first option?


I thought his sandwich was a gun
I thought his phone was a gun
He refused to comply
He said he legally had a gun and told me where it was
She was playing video games
She was unwinding from work
I thought I was grabbing a taser

Cops continue to use every excuse to kill unarmed people and we are just supposed to be okay with it.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
bpatus297
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:51 am

Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:23 pm

seb146 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

ZERO unarmed people of ANY race should not be killed by cops. But, here we are. Cops just shoot as the first option. They seem to injure white people and kill minorities.


First off, do police shoot as a first option?


I thought his sandwich was a gun
I thought his phone was a gun
He refused to comply
He said he legally had a gun and told me where it was
She was playing video games
She was unwinding from work
I thought I was grabbing a taser

Cops continue to use every excuse to kill unarmed people and we are just supposed to be okay with it.


Where are the actual facts of what you are claiming? Lets bring up the cases and discuss each one individually. Until you do that, you are just throwing unsubstantiated opinion out. Mistakes happen, and some unarmed people have been killed. Not all shootings are justified and those police generally get held accountable (just like the cop that shot Mr. Wright). Of course that is not an absolute, but nothing is. So again, lets see the real examples of what you are claiming and lets honestly examine what happened and what the follow up was. In 2020 55 "unarmed" people were killed by the police, of which 18 were black. Again, unarmed does not equal unjustified. I am sure that almost all of the unjustified shootings were dealt with, but until you stop speaking in hyperbole we cant have a serious discussion about the issue.
 
Virtual737
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:31 pm

scbriml wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
He was stopped due to illegal placement of an air freshener


Serious stuff.


You may jest, but that's likely 25 to life in the land of the free.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23734
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:50 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:

First off, do police shoot as a first option?


I thought his sandwich was a gun
I thought his phone was a gun
He refused to comply
He said he legally had a gun and told me where it was
She was playing video games
She was unwinding from work
I thought I was grabbing a taser

Cops continue to use every excuse to kill unarmed people and we are just supposed to be okay with it.


Where are the actual facts of what you are claiming? Lets bring up the cases and discuss each one individually. Until you do that, you are just throwing unsubstantiated opinion out. Mistakes happen, and some unarmed people have been killed. Not all shootings are justified and those police generally get held accountable (just like the cop that shot Mr. Wright). Of course that is not an absolute, but nothing is. So again, lets see the real examples of what you are claiming and lets honestly examine what happened and what the follow up was. In 2020 55 "unarmed" people were killed by the police, of which 18 were black. Again, unarmed does not equal unjustified. I am sure that almost all of the unjustified shootings were dealt with, but until you stop speaking in hyperbole we cant have a serious discussion about the issue.


In order:

Casey Goodson, Jr.
Stephon Clark
George Floyd
Philando Castile
Atatiana Jefferson
Brionna Taylor
Daunte Wright

Those are the most visible ones. There are many, many other unarmed people killed by cops.

Throwing numbers around does not make it right. All lives matter, restrictions apply.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
bpatus297
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:51 am

Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:10 pm

seb146 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

I thought his sandwich was a gun
I thought his phone was a gun
He refused to comply
He said he legally had a gun and told me where it was
She was playing video games
She was unwinding from work
I thought I was grabbing a taser

Cops continue to use every excuse to kill unarmed people and we are just supposed to be okay with it.


Where are the actual facts of what you are claiming? Lets bring up the cases and discuss each one individually. Until you do that, you are just throwing unsubstantiated opinion out. Mistakes happen, and some unarmed people have been killed. Not all shootings are justified and those police generally get held accountable (just like the cop that shot Mr. Wright). Of course that is not an absolute, but nothing is. So again, lets see the real examples of what you are claiming and lets honestly examine what happened and what the follow up was. In 2020 55 "unarmed" people were killed by the police, of which 18 were black. Again, unarmed does not equal unjustified. I am sure that almost all of the unjustified shootings were dealt with, but until you stop speaking in hyperbole we cant have a serious discussion about the issue.


In order:

Casey Goodson, Jr.
Stephon Clark
George Floyd
Philando Castile
Atatiana Jefferson
Brionna Taylor
Daunte Wright

Those are the most visible ones. There are many, many other unarmed people killed by cops.

Throwing numbers around does not make it right. All lives matter, restrictions apply.



Okay, Daunte Wright was an accident and the officer resigned and was charged. Next.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14330
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:48 pm

bigGAplane wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
I believe in respecting police.



You also believe in never having been part of a demographic the police have shown little, if any, professionalism toward.

Perhaps when you have a valid reason to suspect law enforcement is being as careless with your demographic as it very obviously is with his you will understand that wishful thinking does not apply here.


Oh stop it with the lies. A demographic is exponentially more violent and that's why there's more police encounters as well as a greater use of force. Stop with your liberal "victimhood" mentality that blames everything on someone else.


I know I am also amazed at how where you live means you don't comply with police. It's an excuse to coddle the people who hate police.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
wingman
Posts: 4123
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:59 pm

The flip side is this story. It happens a lot, You Tube is rife with videos of Karens and Bobbys talking back to police and acting just like black people that get the shit beat out of them, choked to death or shot..but the same doesn't happen to them at anywhere near the rate. I guess you could say that what color you are means you might not get killed by the police.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... donut-boy/
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23734
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:18 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:

Where are the actual facts of what you are claiming? Lets bring up the cases and discuss each one individually. Until you do that, you are just throwing unsubstantiated opinion out. Mistakes happen, and some unarmed people have been killed. Not all shootings are justified and those police generally get held accountable (just like the cop that shot Mr. Wright). Of course that is not an absolute, but nothing is. So again, lets see the real examples of what you are claiming and lets honestly examine what happened and what the follow up was. In 2020 55 "unarmed" people were killed by the police, of which 18 were black. Again, unarmed does not equal unjustified. I am sure that almost all of the unjustified shootings were dealt with, but until you stop speaking in hyperbole we cant have a serious discussion about the issue.


In order:

Casey Goodson, Jr.
Stephon Clark
George Floyd
Philando Castile
Atatiana Jefferson
Brionna Taylor
Daunte Wright

Those are the most visible ones. There are many, many other unarmed people killed by cops.

Throwing numbers around does not make it right. All lives matter, restrictions apply.



Okay, Daunte Wright was an accident and the officer resigned and was charged. Next.


One resignation and charged does not excuse all the others. Next.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Elkadad313
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:55 am

Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:33 am

wingman wrote:
The flip side is this story. It happens a lot, You Tube is rife with videos of Karens and Bobbys talking back to police and acting just like black people that get the shit beat out of them, choked to death or shot..but the same doesn't happen to them at anywhere near the rate. I guess you could say that what color you are means you might not get killed by the police.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... donut-boy/

The big difference is that the Karens and Bobbys are MUCH less likely to brandish a firearm.
 
bpatus297
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:51 am

Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:36 pm

seb146 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

In order:

Casey Goodson, Jr.
Stephon Clark
George Floyd
Philando Castile
Atatiana Jefferson
Brionna Taylor
Daunte Wright

Those are the most visible ones. There are many, many other unarmed people killed by cops.

Throwing numbers around does not make it right. All lives matter, restrictions apply.



Okay, Daunte Wright was an accident and the officer resigned and was charged. Next.


One resignation and charged does not excuse all the others. Next.



I meant next, as in pick a case, lets look at the fact and talk about them. Pick one and i will go ready up on it. I will only do that if you are willing to read up on it too and we discuss the facts, not emotion or talking points.
 
wingman
Posts: 4123
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Shooting of Daunte Wright

Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:43 pm

Elkadad313 wrote:
wingman wrote:
The flip side is this story. It happens a lot, You Tube is rife with videos of Karens and Bobbys talking back to police and acting just like black people that get the shit beat out of them, choked to death or shot..but the same doesn't happen to them at anywhere near the rate. I guess you could say that what color you are means you might not get killed by the police.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... donut-boy/

The big difference is that the Karens and Bobbys are MUCH less likely to brandish a firearm.


It's a piss poor excuse for shooting black people that aren't brandishing firearms. I think there are a number that qualify on Seb's list. Maybe this is why the NRA and Republicans are aiming for a billion weapons in circulation, it makes the perfect excuse for shooting anyone that doesn't fit the Nativist profile. "Well Judge, based on the odds I shot Rufus eight times before I noticed it was a Galaxy Flip. And he did not respond when I asked him for his license, he just kept reaching for all all the holes I'd just poked into 'im, so I closed the deal."

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