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Aesma wrote:Also if our real beef is with fundamentalist Sunni Islam (and it is) then we should start by dealing with the countries promoting this heinous ideology.
Aesma wrote:Also if our real beef is with fundamentalist Sunni Islam (and it is) then we should start by dealing with the countries promoting this heinous ideology.
c933103 wrote:The border of countries in the area should be redrawn to match ethnic line in order to reduce tension.
Sokes wrote:In the year 2000 Afghanistan had 20 million inhabitants, now 40 million.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... population
Afghanistan’s population is growing at a rate of 2.33% per year. The country is seeing negative net migration due to internal conflict; however, its fertility rate of 4.56 births per woman still pushes the population up. Because of the high fertility rate, the population is very young, with a median age of 18.4 years.
c933103 wrote:The border of countries in the area should be redrawn to match ethnic line in order to reduce tension.
B777LRF wrote:So if you're asking me, the decision to pull out is roughly 9 years overdue, and it's about bloody time someone realised mission: impossible only becomes mission: possible in Hollywood flicks.
B777LRF wrote:It's the epitome of irony that OSM was eventually found in Pakistan.
The Pentagon will likely first reinforce the roughly 3,500 troops currently in Afghanistan with logistics and security to ensure a safe withdrawal, said the defense officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss future plans. That could mean sending additional personnel into the country before the full exit, but the details are still being worked out.
B777LRF wrote:For more than 2.000 years nobody has successfully invaded and occupied Afghanistan, which leads to the logical conclusion that it's simply not possible for outsiders to come in and tell them how to run their show. Arrogance, however, will usually prevail over something as mundane as facts and, well, here we are.
I appreciate the desire for revenge following 911, but it's also fair to say that the plan to invade, displace the Taliban, catch OSM, occupy and install a "friendly western minded" government was always going to fail. The plan should have been "invade, displace the Taliban, get OSM, leave". This is a people which simply cannot be ruled by outsiders, and as barbaric, backwards and inhumane we may find their way of ruling themselves is, it's still their train-set to play with. If change is going to happen, it must come internally and not be forced upon by external forces.
So if you're asking me, the decision to pull out is roughly 9 years overdue, and it's about bloody time someone realised mission: impossible only becomes mission: possible in Hollywood flicks.
It's the epitome of irony that OSM was eventually found in Pakistan.
Mortyman wrote:The US and NATO is planning to pull out of Afghanistan by September this year. What is Your view on that ? A good idea ?
Personally I am sceptical, but I think that 20 years is enough. We can't get stuck in Afghanistan forever and I don't see what more we can do at the moment. I think the operations in Afghanistan was flawed from the get go. We have certainly killed a lot of terrorists, including bin laden and if that is what you regard as success then OK, but we have not been able to stabalize the country and I do not believe we have made it a much better place for the Afghan people. In order to win a war you need to ge the local people on your side and on your side from the get go. You need to make the place better than what it was. I believe we failed at that.
seb146 wrote:Extremists will probably attack India. Something will happen based in Afghanistan. Just like always.
Kiwirob wrote:Mortyman wrote:The US and NATO is planning to pull out of Afghanistan by September this year. What is Your view on that ? A good idea ?
Personally I am sceptical, but I think that 20 years is enough. We can't get stuck in Afghanistan forever and I don't see what more we can do at the moment. I think the operations in Afghanistan was flawed from the get go. We have certainly killed a lot of terrorists, including bin laden and if that is what you regard as success then OK, but we have not been able to stabalize the country and I do not believe we have made it a much better place for the Afghan people. In order to win a war you need to ge the local people on your side and on your side from the get go. You need to make the place better than what it was. I believe we failed at that.
1. NATO should never have been involved. Neither should NZ or Australia.
2. The US jumped in and they should stay until they have rebuilt and fixed the mess they have made, if it take 50 years it takes 50 years.
Kiwirob wrote:2. The US jumped in and they should stay until they have rebuilt and fixed the mess they have made, if it take 50 years it takes 50 years.
flyguy89 wrote:It’s high time to get out. Time to end the forever wars. I’ll only believe it when I see it though...September is still quite a ways away, plenty of time for the hawks to move the goal posts.
Aaron747 wrote:flyguy89 wrote:It’s high time to get out. Time to end the forever wars. I’ll only believe it when I see it though...September is still quite a ways away, plenty of time for the hawks to move the goal posts.
Just a minor note - the Korean War is still not officially over and our people and materiel are still there 68 years later. Afghanistan is nothing compared to that.
flyguy89 wrote:It’s high time to get out. Time to end the forever wars. I’ll only believe it when I see it though...September is still quite a ways away, plenty of time for the hawks to move the goal posts.Kiwirob wrote:2. The US jumped in and they should stay until they have rebuilt and fixed the mess they have made, if it take 50 years it takes 50 years.
It was a mess well before the US got there.
B777LRF wrote:
It's the epitome of irony that OSM was eventually found in Pakistan.
Aesma wrote:Wasn't there Lithium found there ? Maybe China can send 5000 soldiers there if it means they can grab that.
Mortyman wrote:Never China, they're too much of a peer. Hopefully, not Iran either. If their neighbors have a problem with them let them deal with it. They could if they wanted to, but too many of their own people would die. They'd rather have the Americans do their fighting for them. It has to stop.Don't worry, I'm sure Washington will find a new play ground to start a new war .. The US has been hellbent on a war with Iran for decades now and who knows, maybe China ...
Kiwirob wrote:seb146 wrote:Extremists will probably attack India. Something will happen based in Afghanistan. Just like always.
They don’t even share a border with India. When was the last time Afghan extremists attacked India?
Mortyman wrote:Don't worry, I'm sure Washington will find a new play ground to start a new war .. The US has been hellbent on a war with Iran for decades now and who knows, maybe China ...
seb146 wrote:Kiwirob wrote:seb146 wrote:Extremists will probably attack India. Something will happen based in Afghanistan. Just like always.
They don’t even share a border with India. When was the last time Afghan extremists attacked India?
They don't share a border with the United States, either...
Kiwirob wrote:seb146 wrote:Kiwirob wrote:
They don’t even share a border with India. When was the last time Afghan extremists attacked India?
They don't share a border with the United States, either...
When did Afghans attack the United States?
seb146 wrote:Kiwirob wrote:seb146 wrote:
They don't share a border with the United States, either...
When did Afghans attack the United States?
Osama bin Laden was hiding in Tora Bora in AFGHANISTAN when GWB decided it just wasn't a big deal to find him because WMDs were all over Iraq.
Kiwirob wrote:seb146 wrote:Kiwirob wrote:
When did Afghans attack the United States?
Osama bin Laden was hiding in Tora Bora in AFGHANISTAN when GWB decided it just wasn't a big deal to find him because WMDs were all over Iraq.
It’s a stretch to say Afghanistan attacked the US, they didn’t most of the 9/11 bombers were Saudis as is OBL, when they didn’t find him in Tora Bora, because he’d already moved to Pakistan the US should have left, but they didn’t they decided to stay and play. Note the US didn’t invade Pakistan who harboured and quietly supported him.
zkojq wrote:There's a fantastic documentary called 'This Is What Winning Looks Like' made by Vice's Ben Andersen.
...
https://youtu.be/BKHPTHx0ScQ
Kiwirob wrote:Your fellow Kiwis were "playing" there until quite recently. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/2/1 ... tan-in-mayseb146 wrote:Kiwirob wrote:
When did Afghans attack the United States?
Osama bin Laden was hiding in Tora Bora in AFGHANISTAN when GWB decided it just wasn't a big deal to find him because WMDs were all over Iraq.
It’s a stretch to say Afghanistan attacked the US, they didn’t most of the 9/11 bombers were Saudis as is OBL, when they didn’t find him in Tora Bora, because he’d already moved to Pakistan the US should have left, but they didn’t they decided to stay and play. Note the US didn’t invade Pakistan who harboured and quietly supported him.
johns624 wrote:Kiwirob wrote:Your fellow Kiwis were "playing" there until quite recently. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/2/1 ... tan-in-mayseb146 wrote:
Osama bin Laden was hiding in Tora Bora in AFGHANISTAN when GWB decided it just wasn't a big deal to find him because WMDs were all over Iraq.
It’s a stretch to say Afghanistan attacked the US, they didn’t most of the 9/11 bombers were Saudis as is OBL, when they didn’t find him in Tora Bora, because he’d already moved to Pakistan the US should have left, but they didn’t they decided to stay and play. Note the US didn’t invade Pakistan who harboured and quietly supported him.
Kiwirob wrote:seb146 wrote:Extremists will probably attack India. Something will happen based in Afghanistan. Just like always.
They don’t even share a border with India. When was the last time Afghan extremists attacked India?
Aaron747 wrote:It's a double-edged sword. The country is by no means ready for a stable run of government sufficient to keep radical elements from seizing power, but western countries' patience have run out in terms of having people and materiel on the ground there. Perhaps there would have been far more resources available to support Afghanistan without the expense and distraction of several years in Iraq.
aerosreenivas wrote:As the saying goes, 'The Enemy Of My Enemy Is My Friend'.
aerosreenivas wrote:Kiwirob wrote:seb146 wrote:Extremists will probably attack India. Something will happen based in Afghanistan. Just like always.
They don’t even share a border with India. When was the last time Afghan extremists attacked India?
Yup. That is the possibility. They can join hands with the 'Pakistani Extremists' and attack India for 'Kashmir Cause' or anyother 'Religious Causes'.
Sharing a border is not required to attack a country. If your 'Nearby Neighbour' shares the same ideology then it is fine to 'Launch An Attack' against anyother country, as in this case, India.
As the saying goes, 'The Enemy Of My Enemy Is My Friend'.