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Kent350787
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:18 pm

extender wrote:
Good luck with that, that is private property between to consenting adults. And even if private sales had an ID requirement, a lot of people won't be happy, and think they need to go further, hence the line in the sand mentality.


So simple measures to restrict trading are a no go?

American exceptionalism yet again and the rest of the developed world can only offer useless thoughts and prayers following the statistically daily mass shootings in the US.
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GDB
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:21 am

johns624 wrote:
GDB wrote:
The question? Well we are waiting, since if the 'good guy with a gun' stopping a mass shooting wasn't as rare as rocking horse shit, each and every instance of these would be all over these threads on this depressingly familiar subject.
They aren't though are they? Thin on the ground and nowhere in any of the really big double figure fatality ones.
Not to mention how many would be started when any of these 'good guy with a gun' actually happened.
Yes not impossible and likely there have been one or two, however when law enforcement turn up, what I said would most likely happen.
But only on very rare occasions and only due to the mass shooting epidemic in the first place.
Did you think that sometimes a shooting doesn't become a "mass shooting" because the gunman doesn't get a chance? I didn't think so.
PS--As to your shotgun suggestion---I can't shoot a shotgun. I've had 2 complete reverse shoulder replacements and the ortho said it's a big no-no.


So how often? Again not saying it does not happen but only very rarely, yet all the NRA and other gun nuts do not seem to be boasting about numerous incidents, or even very many and none at all for the really major ones.
And when it happens at all it's only because there are so many shootings in the first place!

We get it, even the mass slaughter in one incident of young children just made all you the gun nuts not give a crap as no one's lives are important than their cradling their precious guns, not even checks on felons and the mentally ill, (scared maybe that too many would not pass the latter? )
Then went on to call the bereaved liars, threaten them, (some of the parents of those shot to death kids had to move or even change identity), so we have seen the mindset of the American gun nut and it is a mix of extreme selfishness, paranoia, the whole cowboy delusion and in the case of threats to the bereaved being threatened, the true dark heart of the whole ethos.
(Yes they too are rare events, though the schoolkid survivors of a 2017 school massacre got much the same treatment, that is being told what happened did not, that they are 'Crisis Actors' (a paranoia mindset, again).

But the mass shootings in schools are not, are they?
And your answer to that? Arm teachers! At this point most in the US (if polling on limiting access to certain guns and all to certain people is anywhere near true) and the rest of the world, just see that you have lost your minds.
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:40 am

GDB wrote:
We get it, even the mass slaughter in one incident of young children just made all you the gun nuts not give a crap as no one's lives are important than their cradling their precious guns


It's sickening, isn't it. In an normal person's mind Sandy Hook should have been America's Dunblane moment.

I was in primary school at the time of Dunblane and remember the instant extra security and then all the legislation changes on guns and school staffing. How many school shootings have we had since?

America? Well... they just arm the teachers.
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:02 am

BlueberryWheats wrote:
GDB wrote:
We get it, even the mass slaughter in one incident of young children just made all you the gun nuts not give a crap as no one's lives are important than their cradling their precious guns


It's sickening, isn't it. In an normal person's mind Sandy Hook should have been America's Dunblane moment.

I was in primary school at the time of Dunblane and remember the instant extra security and then all the legislation changes on guns and school staffing. How many school shootings have we had since?

America? Well... they just arm the teachers.


Ditto for Australia with the Port Arthur Massacre and New Zealand with the Christchurch Mosque Attacks. Gun laws were changed and tightened within weeks of each incident.
 
GDB
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:17 am

BlueberryWheats wrote:
GDB wrote:
We get it, even the mass slaughter in one incident of young children just made all you the gun nuts not give a crap as no one's lives are important than their cradling their precious guns


It's sickening, isn't it. In an normal person's mind Sandy Hook should have been America's Dunblane moment.

I was in primary school at the time of Dunblane and remember the instant extra security and then all the legislation changes on guns and school staffing. How many school shootings have we had since?

America? Well... they just arm the teachers.


Yes, that truly evil mass killing was the first and likely last ever such event in the UK.
After the 1987 Hungerford massacre, many (including myself) were shocked that, with regular police vetting and checks for safe storage, a man could own a semi auto AK-47 and M1 Carbine. Not needed nor used by farmers, gamekeepers, groundsmen etc.

They were banned, though not the pistol the perp, Micheal Ryan, used to shoot himself when surrounded by armed police in a (thankfully) empty school.
Nine years later, that loophole allowed Dunblane. He had a 9mm Browning, so weapons of that class were banned.
Did not matter what the government thought, nor the very small number of our version of guns rights activists felt, the public demand was clear, not that the then Major government was minded to resist anyway. Since they were as appalled too.

As Kiwirob pointed out, it was another Conservative, right of center government who did the same after Port Arthur.
Even though Australia has some similarities with the US with regards to much bigger rural areas and the people who have a real need for say shotguns or .22 bolt action rifle, not the M14 the Port Arthur killer used.

And the often weapon of choice in mass shootings? The AR-15. Also now the icon of gun nuts, these wack job 'Militias', what a mindset.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:50 am

I think we can safely state that gun control won't happen in America until someone walks into the capitol building and kills 20-30 senators or representatives, even then they'll probably find some excuse not to do anything.
 
johns624
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:16 pm

GDB wrote:

not even checks on felons and the mentally ill
Where do you come up with this crap? It's illegal for people adjudged mentally ill or convicted felons to purchase firearms. That's what's so frustrating for us responsible gun owners (99.99%). We're trying to debate with people who get their gun news from Hollywood movies. You don't even know what the facts are. It just makes you look ignorant.
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:11 pm

johns624 wrote:
GDB wrote:

not even checks on felons and the mentally ill
Where do you come up with this crap? It's illegal for people adjudged mentally ill or convicted felons to purchase firearms. That's what's so frustrating for us responsible gun owners (99.99%). We're trying to debate with people who get their gun news from Hollywood movies. You don't even know what the facts are. It just makes you look ignorant.


But that assumes that every mentally ill person has been assessed and deemed mentally ill.
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
GDB
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:08 pm

johns624 wrote:
GDB wrote:

not even checks on felons and the mentally ill
Where do you come up with this crap? It's illegal for people adjudged mentally ill or convicted felons to purchase firearms. That's what's so frustrating for us responsible gun owners (99.99%). We're trying to debate with people who get their gun news from Hollywood movies. You don't even know what the facts are. It just makes you look ignorant.


Who is getting their 'gun news' from Hollywood movies? Not me, not most people, is THIS very recent example from a 'movie'?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... gun-seized

The above is also depressingly familiar.

I note no answer to the dark heart of US gun nuttery, screw everyone, even 26 dead kids, my paranoia means I need an AR-15, or multiple modern pistols. And if the bereaved don't like it, threaten them.
Polls also show majorities of Americans who are responsible with having the firearms they need for their work and/or living arrangements, yes I know they exist, they also show a desire for limiting access to all firearms to some, limiting assault derived types full stop.
After all, there was a time when a Charles Whitman was a one in a decade thing, that most gun crime was from a Saturday Night Special.

That so many much deadlier weapons are so commonplace, is due to lobbying by the NRA, now revealed as a money laundering scam on it's own members.
No surprise there then.
 
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SQ22
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:39 pm

Please discuss the topic and do not attack other users in your posts. Thanks.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:59 pm

Does 45 spent shell casings — 28 from a handgun of one caliber and 17 from a handgun of another caliber — found at the scene = a mass shooting. In some ways it does. Two people were shot, and sadly a 7 year old girl died from the targeted attack at a McDonalds drive-thru.

Bty, this was not an "exchange" of gunfire. It was all one-way.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/bre ... story.html
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Aaron747
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:03 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Does 45 spent shell casings — 28 from a handgun of one caliber and 17 from a handgun of another caliber — found at the scene = a mass shooting. In some ways it does. Two people were shot, and sadly a 7 year old girl died from the targeted attack at a McDonalds drive-thru.

Bty, this was not an "exchange" of gunfire. It was all one-way.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/bre ... story.html


Doesn’t qualify in the context ‘mass shooting’ is understood to mean. Mass shootings involve intent to hit multiple victims, who are usually strangers or randoms to the shooter. The story you linked describes a shooter who targeted a specific individual who happened to be the young girl victim’s father.

https://library.stanford.edu/projects/m ... gs-america
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johns624
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:08 pm

BlueberryWheats wrote:
johns624 wrote:
GDB wrote:

not even checks on felons and the mentally ill
Where do you come up with this crap? It's illegal for people adjudged mentally ill or convicted felons to purchase firearms. That's what's so frustrating for us responsible gun owners (99.99%). We're trying to debate with people who get their gun news from Hollywood movies. You don't even know what the facts are. It just makes you look ignorant.


But that assumes that every mentally ill person has been assessed and deemed mentally ill.
So you agree that it's a mental health problem?
 
johns624
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:16 pm

GDB wrote:
johns624 wrote:
GDB wrote:

not even checks on felons and the mentally ill
Where do you come up with this crap? It's illegal for people adjudged mentally ill or convicted felons to purchase firearms. That's what's so frustrating for us responsible gun owners (99.99%). We're trying to debate with people who get their gun news from Hollywood movies. You don't even know what the facts are. It just makes you look ignorant.


Who is getting their 'gun news' from Hollywood movies? Not me, not most people, is THIS very recent example from a 'movie'?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... gun-seized

The above is also depressingly familiar.

I note no answer to the dark heart of US gun nuttery, screw everyone, even 26 dead kids, my paranoia means I need an AR-15, or multiple modern pistols. And if the bereaved don't like it, threaten them.
Polls also show majorities of Americans who are responsible with having the firearms they need for their work and/or living arrangements, yes I know they exist, they also show a desire for limiting access to all firearms to some, limiting assault derived types full stop.
After all, there was a time when a Charles Whitman was a one in a decade thing, that most gun crime was from a Saturday Night Special.

That so many much deadlier weapons are so commonplace, is due to lobbying by the NRA, now revealed as a money laundering scam on it's own members.
No surprise there then.
Did you even read the link that you posted. The police and other authorities dropped the ball. They're having trouble "finding records". They interviewed him, confiscated his gun but don't know what they did after that. They don't know if they had him evaluated. If they had, he most probably would've been deemed a risk and he wouldn't have been able to buy more guns.
Here is one of the things that automatically keeps you from buying a gun...
Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:42 pm

Long Island shooter of 3 still at large.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6QjHfV3AIM
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wingman
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:54 pm

johns624 wrote:
Here is one of the things that automatically keeps you from buying a gun...
Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?


I'm gonna have to try real hard not to get banned addressing these inane comments. There's nothing automatic about this at all. This is why people with both unknown and known mental issues keep magically finding guns and killing people. And this complete lack of rigorous process addresses just the victims of mentally ill killers, forget about the 18,000+ killed by "completely normal" people. You keep asking people if they're reading the links they post and yet you either aren't reading your own posts or you're incapable of cobbling together two coherent clauses in one sentence.
 
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seb146
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:00 pm

NIKV69 wrote:


So no actual "liberals" have said that but peer reviewed studies have.

But demanding ID and insurance and proof owners can safely use guns is infringement? By still allowing people access to guns?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:09 pm

johns624 wrote:
BlueberryWheats wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Where do you come up with this crap? It's illegal for people adjudged mentally ill or convicted felons to purchase firearms. That's what's so frustrating for us responsible gun owners (99.99%). We're trying to debate with people who get their gun news from Hollywood movies. You don't even know what the facts are. It just makes you look ignorant.


But that assumes that every mentally ill person has been assessed and deemed mentally ill.
So you agree that it's a mental health problem?


Obviously guns in the hands of mentally ill individuals can be very bad, but what I'm saying is someone could be mentally ill but have never seen a doctor or been assessed. So there may be a lot of mentally ill people out there but in the eyes of the people running the background checks they're fine.

Imagine you had a illness, but you never saw a doctor about it. It wouldn't be on your record, but you'd still be suffering from it.
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Derico
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:28 pm

The issue is that you have a society that has this very liberal right of owning weaponry virtually unsupervised or untrained, and basically any kind of military weaponry at that. In such a context, you need an extremely well trained and preselected police force: only choosing those with the innate physical skills, the body training, but also the mental and emotional capacity to perform. After that they must be heavily trained in how to deal with such weaponry, with extensive understanding of all the weapons they may face but also how to effectively and safely use their own. And they also need to be heavily trained both in psychological dissuasive techniques in order to deescalate possible conflicts on the field, and simultaneously be trained in how to handle their own emotions in perceived life and death situations, which in a country awash in weapons is basically any moment and any assignment.

Yet, from what I keep hearing and reading, the US has one of the worst trained police forces amongst the upper tier of countries. It is a ludicrous combination and the results are plain and simple.

As with many other patterns I have noticed in world society in recent years, it's the typical "I want the benefits of a right but I don't want the responsibilities that come with it." syndrome.
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johns624
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:32 pm

wingman wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Here is one of the things that automatically keeps you from buying a gun...
Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?


I'm gonna have to try real hard not to get banned addressing these inane comments. There's nothing automatic about this at all. This is why people with both unknown and known mental issues keep magically finding guns and killing people. And this complete lack of rigorous process addresses just the victims of mentally ill killers, forget about the 18,000+ killed by "completely normal" people. You keep asking people if they're reading the links they post and yet you either aren't reading your own posts or you're incapable of cobbling together two coherent clauses in one sentence.
My quote is from the USG Form 4473. If you don't like the way that it's written, take it up with them.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:34 pm

I think the solution is simple: nuclear bombs. As 'the right to bear arms shall not be infringed' I think it's perfectly reasonable to call for teachers and such to be armed with nukes. No shooter would ever take them on if they knew they'd be vaporised!

In reality, if 'the good guy with a gun' narrative held weight then the USA would be the country with the fewest mass shootings/deaths, but there are 300+ every year, each and every one is a failure of the idea. The solutions are there, but will never be implemented as far too many people are resistant to any change to their beloved ideals. It's a shame for the many thousands of victims, but there's no point being upset about it, their lives are expendable. 'Pro-life' indeed.
 
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DL717
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:44 pm

BlueberryWheats wrote:
johns624 wrote:
GDB wrote:

not even checks on felons and the mentally ill
Where do you come up with this crap? It's illegal for people adjudged mentally ill or convicted felons to purchase firearms. That's what's so frustrating for us responsible gun owners (99.99%). We're trying to debate with people who get their gun news from Hollywood movies. You don't even know what the facts are. It just makes you look ignorant.


But that assumes that every mentally ill person has been assessed and deemed mentally ill.


We make this too difficult.

Derico wrote:
....and basically any kind of military weaponry at that.


False.
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
ArchGuy1
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Shooting in Times Square

Mon May 10, 2021 1:13 am

On Saturday, a gunman in Times Square targeted his brother when he shot three innocent bystanders, including a four year old girl. The suspect has been arrested last year in New York City for a different crime. Sad to see something like this happen in a vibrant tourist location.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com ... urces/amp/
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Shooting in Times Square

Mon May 10, 2021 2:46 am

Hasn’t been a “vibrant tourist location” in 15 months.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Mon May 10, 2021 4:12 am

Had another in Colorado where a man attacked a birthday party and killed seven. The suspect was the boyfriend to one of victims:

A gunman opened fire at a birthday party in Colorado, killing six adults before killing himself, police said on Sunday.
The shooting happened just after midnight in a mobile home park on the east side of Colorado Springs, police said.

The suspected shooter was the boyfriend of a female victim at the party attended by friends, family and children. He walked inside and
opened fire before shooting himself, police said. The birthday party was for one of the people killed.


A bit further down it says
It was Colorado’s worst mass shooting since a gunman killed 10 people at a Boulder supermarket on 22 March.


No problems then, it was only the worst mass shooting for an entire 6 week period.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... hday-party
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wingman
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Mon May 10, 2021 3:14 pm

Why did these people show up at a birthday party unarmed? It makes no sense. I was at a birthday party for one of my son's 3rd Grade friends on Saturday and the parents were locked and loaded. One of the presents was a replica AR15 with soft rubber bullets. The kids took turns mock executing each other, it was awesome. And no one got killed! I feel like the government needs to start mandating open carry so that we can finally start solving this problem.
 
FGITD
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Mon May 10, 2021 4:02 pm

The issue with everyone carrying a gun is that it becomes a Wild West game of who can draw and shoot the fastest.

The real way to solve this is suicide vests on a deadman’s switch. Mutually assured destruction kept the missiles in the silos, and will keep the guns in the holsters.
 
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Aesma
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Mon May 10, 2021 4:36 pm

Vests seem like a better solution. Yes I mean bulletproof vests. You already have armor plates for kids' backpacks so it's not that far.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
extender
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Mon May 10, 2021 5:37 pm

FGITD wrote:
The issue with everyone carrying a gun is that it becomes a Wild West game of who can draw and shoot the fastest.


Speed is fine, accuracy is final.
 
pune
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Mon May 10, 2021 6:07 pm

I had seen Money Machine a few months ago. I even shared it here - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12484230/

Interestingly, the 'good guy' as we come to know was the chief of police and that gentleman was just back of the door for whole 2 hours when Mr. Stephen Paddock pulls different types of machine guns, from AR-15 to AR-10 ultimately killing 60 people and injuring 687 people in the process. And of course, the wealthy Mr. Paddock had 'emotional problems'. The Chief of Police too went into the room to do nothing but clean the room of evidence. And of course, the fundraising which was done for the victims never came to them.

It really is amazing if you want to be a criminal and kill people and are an American, you can get away easily -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Paddock
 
pune
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Mon May 10, 2021 11:16 pm

Saw this on NPR.org today. The map itself tells what the issue is -

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/10/99538078 ... -this-year
 
Elkadad313
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue May 11, 2021 1:28 am

pune wrote:
Saw this on NPR.org today. The map itself tells what the issue is -

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/10/99538078 ... -this-year

Then, according to many here, mental illness, which is supposedly the primary cause of gun violence, must be mostly synonymous with living in large urban areas. :!:
 
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Aaron747
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue May 11, 2021 3:09 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
pune wrote:
Saw this on NPR.org today. The map itself tells what the issue is -

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/10/99538078 ... -this-year

Then, according to many here, mental illness, which is supposedly the primary cause of gun violence, must be mostly synonymous with living in large urban areas. :!:


Are we looking at the same map? 2/3s of the dots are not major urban areas.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
ArchGuy1
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Shooting in Colorado Springs at Birthday Party

Fri May 14, 2021 12:58 am

On Sunday morning, a shooting at a mobile home park in Colorado Springs led to the death of 6 people that were part of two families. Flags were lowered on public buildings across Colorado to honor those killed. Seems like America has a problem with shootings.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/denver.cbs ... ctims/amp/
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: Shooting in Colorado Springs at Birthday Party

Fri May 14, 2021 5:53 am

Unless this is another shooting, it's already been discussed in the United States Mass Shooting thread.

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Seems like America has a problem with shootings.


That's putting it, err... mildly.
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
Elkadad313
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Sat May 15, 2021 2:44 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
pune wrote:
Saw this on NPR.org today. The map itself tells what the issue is -

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/10/99538078 ... -this-year

Then, according to many here, mental illness, which is supposedly the primary cause of gun violence, must be mostly synonymous with living in large urban areas. :!:


Are we looking at the same map? 2/3s of the dots are not major urban areas.

Same map. 2/3s+ are in or near urban areas. Apparently our definition of 'major' differs.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Sat May 15, 2021 2:54 pm

Elkadad313 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Then, according to many here, mental illness, which is supposedly the primary cause of gun violence, must be mostly synonymous with living in large urban areas. :!:


Are we looking at the same map? 2/3s of the dots are not major urban areas.

Same map. 2/3s+ are in or near urban areas. Apparently our definition of 'major' differs.


Kindly share how many dots in the following states you'd classify 'large urban areas' (you said large urban areas, not urban areas in general):

AL, AR, CO, IL, LA, MS, NC, SC. Yes, most of the dots in CA, FL, PA, and TX are near 'large urban areas'. I was not aware Boone, Fayetteville, and Jacksonville NC are major. :lol:
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
ltbewr
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Sat May 15, 2021 4:17 pm

Major regulations on guns like in Australia and NZ will never happen in the USA due to deep political and cultural factors. Yes, the big, mass shooting get attention but there are the smaller multiple victim gun shooting events that add up the totals, especially in major urban centers, usually due to drug trade, teen, young adult, ethnically and racially centered criminal gangs. The ability to determine, arrest and prosecute the deaths by such groups is almost impossible due to as the saying goes 'snitches get stitches' or could get killed too. Some say if took away the numbers of gun murders by urban criminal gangs, the rest of the country would have much lower rates of gun murders. Going after all individual gun owners will just backfire badly.

To me I would: Improve policing and social conditions in cities to reduce the opportunity and need to use guns and be part of criminal gangs. Go after shadow or straw buying of guns, especially from states with weak purchase laws to those with stronger laws. Limit the number of licensed dealers. Ban 'gun shows'. Hire and use more persons to check on dealers more frequently, to make sure are complying with laws, look out for possibly illegal or improper sales. Make it easier to ban those with records of domestic violence from possession of guns or temporary suspension of possession until cases adjudicated. Encourage more to make sure friends, relatives who may have mental health problems, involved with extremist gun toting groups, are not possessing guns illegally or even rat out to law enforcement of the problem. Earlier intervention of police in home/family violence. Long jail terms who use or display a gun in a criminal act.
 
bennett123
Posts: 10764
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Sat May 15, 2021 4:42 pm

wingman wrote:
Why did these people show up at a birthday party unarmed? It makes no sense. I was at a birthday party for one of my son's 3rd Grade friends on Saturday and the parents were locked and loaded. One of the presents was a replica AR15 with soft rubber bullets. The kids took turns mock executing each other, it was awesome. And no one got killed! I feel like the government needs to start mandating open carry so that we can finally start solving this problem.


Are you serious?.
 
art
Posts: 4092
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Sat May 15, 2021 7:13 pm

wingman wrote:
Why did these people show up at a birthday party unarmed? It makes no sense. I was at a birthday party for one of my son's 3rd Grade friends on Saturday and the parents were locked and loaded. One of the presents was a replica AR15 with soft rubber bullets. The kids took turns mock executing each other, it was awesome. And no one got killed! I feel like the government needs to start mandating open carry so that we can finally start solving this problem.


Love it!

One of my incarnations is software developer. Was doing a contract in my town (once and only time I did not have to travel to go to work) and a bunch of Americans turned up on site for a few weeks/months so I got chatting, you know, and asked what they got up to in their spare time. I recall one of their favourite things was going out into the desert with their girlfriends/boyfriends and firing firearms at wrecked cars.they found. I like Shakespeare and stuff like that so we didn't really get that close, I suppose.

Americans seem to be fascinated with power tools/toys, don't they? Chacun a son gout!
 
kelval
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:09 pm

Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Sat May 15, 2021 7:17 pm

bennett123 wrote:
wingman wrote:
Why did these people show up at a birthday party unarmed? It makes no sense. I was at a birthday party for one of my son's 3rd Grade friends on Saturday and the parents were locked and loaded. One of the presents was a replica AR15 with soft rubber bullets. The kids took turns mock executing each other, it was awesome. And no one got killed! I feel like the government needs to start mandating open carry so that we can finally start solving this problem.


Are you serious?.

2nd degree :cough: :cough:
 
Elkadad313
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:55 am

Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Sat May 15, 2021 11:37 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Are we looking at the same map? 2/3s of the dots are not major urban areas.

Same map. 2/3s+ are in or near urban areas. Apparently our definition of 'major' differs.


Kindly share how many dots in the following states you'd classify 'large urban areas' (you said large urban areas, not urban areas in general):

AL, AR, CO, IL, LA, MS, NC, SC. Yes, most of the dots in CA, FL, PA, and TX are near 'large urban areas'. I was not aware Boone, Fayetteville, and Jacksonville NC are major. :lol:

A matter of interpretation. We have urban, suburban and rural areas. My statement included ‘close to’ which is suburbs. Urban areas are defined as towns or cities. So, relative to rural areas, a population concentration higher than ‘rural’ is considered urban. So, yes, Boone, Fayetteville, and Jacksonville, NC are considered urban or close to urban areas.

Get your map out. Just eyeballing it and having traveled extensively in most of the U.S., going L to R, I see 2 in Colorado that would be considered rural, 1 or 2 in Texas, 1 in Missouri, 1 in Illinois, 1 in Arkansas, 1 or 2 in Louisiana, maybe 5 in Mississippi and Alabama, 1 in SC, 2 or 3 in NC, and maybe 2-3 in PA & NY. Difficult without a legend but I think 21 comes close. I count about 140 dots. Even if I missed half (21 more for a total of 42) it would still be just 30% or so, much more than 2/3s for urban. Notice that just about all of the delta (54) are represented in the large dots, and in nearly every case they are in large urban areas.

I see you’re big on semantics so I will indulge you and amend my statement to, ‘Same map. 2/3s+ are in or near urban areas.’
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 14600
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Mon May 17, 2021 2:05 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Same map. 2/3s+ are in or near urban areas. Apparently our definition of 'major' differs.


Kindly share how many dots in the following states you'd classify 'large urban areas' (you said large urban areas, not urban areas in general):

AL, AR, CO, IL, LA, MS, NC, SC. Yes, most of the dots in CA, FL, PA, and TX are near 'large urban areas'. I was not aware Boone, Fayetteville, and Jacksonville NC are major. :lol:

A matter of interpretation. We have urban, suburban and rural areas. My statement included ‘close to’ which is suburbs. Urban areas are defined as towns or cities. So, relative to rural areas, a population concentration higher than ‘rural’ is considered urban. So, yes, Boone, Fayetteville, and Jacksonville, NC are considered urban or close to urban areas.

Get your map out. Just eyeballing it and having traveled extensively in most of the U.S., going L to R, I see 2 in Colorado that would be considered rural, 1 or 2 in Texas, 1 in Missouri, 1 in Illinois, 1 in Arkansas, 1 or 2 in Louisiana, maybe 5 in Mississippi and Alabama, 1 in SC, 2 or 3 in NC, and maybe 2-3 in PA & NY. Difficult without a legend but I think 21 comes close. I count about 140 dots. Even if I missed half (21 more for a total of 42) it would still be just 30% or so, much more than 2/3s for urban. Notice that just about all of the delta (54) are represented in the large dots, and in nearly every case they are in large urban areas.

I see you’re big on semantics so I will indulge you and amend my statement to, ‘Same map. 2/3s+ are in or near urban areas.’


The post I originally replied to referred to ‘living jn large urban areas’. This post is a lot of words to just cover over having made a sweeping generalization about the map in that post. It’s not semantics, but demography. Large urban areas have central cities over 250K - below that they are called ‘midsized’. Lots of places you included above are midsized, not large - which is the word you used.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/edge/docs/ ... ATIONS.pdf

Winston-Salem: 240K
Baton Rouge: 240K
Fayetteville: 210K
Shreveport: 195K
Mobile: 190K
Lafayette: 125K
Pensacola: 55K
Biloxi: 45K

And so on and so forth.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Elkadad313
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:55 am

Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Mon May 17, 2021 4:56 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Kindly share how many dots in the following states you'd classify 'large urban areas' (you said large urban areas, not urban areas in general):

AL, AR, CO, IL, LA, MS, NC, SC. Yes, most of the dots in CA, FL, PA, and TX are near 'large urban areas'. I was not aware Boone, Fayetteville, and Jacksonville NC are major. :lol:

A matter of interpretation. We have urban, suburban and rural areas. My statement included ‘close to’ which is suburbs. Urban areas are defined as towns or cities. So, relative to rural areas, a population concentration higher than ‘rural’ is considered urban. So, yes, Boone, Fayetteville, and Jacksonville, NC are considered urban or close to urban areas.

Get your map out. Just eyeballing it and having traveled extensively in most of the U.S., going L to R, I see 2 in Colorado that would be considered rural, 1 or 2 in Texas, 1 in Missouri, 1 in Illinois, 1 in Arkansas, 1 or 2 in Louisiana, maybe 5 in Mississippi and Alabama, 1 in SC, 2 or 3 in NC, and maybe 2-3 in PA & NY. Difficult without a legend but I think 21 comes close. I count about 140 dots. Even if I missed half (21 more for a total of 42) it would still be just 30% or so, much more than 2/3s for urban. Notice that just about all of the delta (54) are represented in the large dots, and in nearly every case they are in large urban areas.

I see you’re big on semantics so I will indulge you and amend my statement to, ‘Same map. 2/3s+ are in or near urban areas.’


The post I originally replied to referred to ‘living jn large urban areas’. This post is a lot of words to just cover over having made a sweeping generalization about the map in that post. It’s not semantics, but demography. Large urban areas have central cities over 250K - below that they are called ‘midsized’. Lots of places you included above are midsized, not large - which is the word you used.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/edge/docs/ ... ATIONS.pdf

Winston-Salem: 240K
Baton Rouge: 240K
Fayetteville: 210K
Shreveport: 195K
Mobile: 190K
Lafayette: 125K
Pensacola: 55K
Biloxi: 45K

And so on and so forth.

I indulged you and amended my statement. What part of "2/3s+ are in or near urban areas" do you not understand or agree with? There are three classifications: urban, suburban and rural. The cities you listed are not rural or even suburbs. My dictionary defines urban areas as, "Most inhabitants of urban areas have nonagricultural jobs. Urban areas are very developed, meaning there is a density of human structures such as houses, commercial buildings, roads, bridges, and railways. 'Urban area' can refer to towns, cities, and suburbs."

You can cherry-pick, employ semantics and create definitions to your heart’s content, but you cannot change the facts through denial. Who are you trying to protect?
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 14600
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Mon May 17, 2021 4:58 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
A matter of interpretation. We have urban, suburban and rural areas. My statement included ‘close to’ which is suburbs. Urban areas are defined as towns or cities. So, relative to rural areas, a population concentration higher than ‘rural’ is considered urban. So, yes, Boone, Fayetteville, and Jacksonville, NC are considered urban or close to urban areas.

Get your map out. Just eyeballing it and having traveled extensively in most of the U.S., going L to R, I see 2 in Colorado that would be considered rural, 1 or 2 in Texas, 1 in Missouri, 1 in Illinois, 1 in Arkansas, 1 or 2 in Louisiana, maybe 5 in Mississippi and Alabama, 1 in SC, 2 or 3 in NC, and maybe 2-3 in PA & NY. Difficult without a legend but I think 21 comes close. I count about 140 dots. Even if I missed half (21 more for a total of 42) it would still be just 30% or so, much more than 2/3s for urban. Notice that just about all of the delta (54) are represented in the large dots, and in nearly every case they are in large urban areas.

I see you’re big on semantics so I will indulge you and amend my statement to, ‘Same map. 2/3s+ are in or near urban areas.’


The post I originally replied to referred to ‘living jn large urban areas’. This post is a lot of words to just cover over having made a sweeping generalization about the map in that post. It’s not semantics, but demography. Large urban areas have central cities over 250K - below that they are called ‘midsized’. Lots of places you included above are midsized, not large - which is the word you used.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/edge/docs/ ... ATIONS.pdf

Winston-Salem: 240K
Baton Rouge: 240K
Fayetteville: 210K
Shreveport: 195K
Mobile: 190K
Lafayette: 125K
Pensacola: 55K
Biloxi: 45K

And so on and so forth.

I indulged you and amended my statement. What part of "2/3s+ are in or near urban areas" do you not understand or agree with? There are three classifications: urban, suburban and rural. The cities you listed are not rural or even suburbs. My dictionary defines urban areas as, "Most inhabitants of urban areas have nonagricultural jobs. Urban areas are very developed, meaning there is a density of human structures such as houses, commercial buildings, roads, bridges, and railways. 'Urban area' can refer to towns, cities, and suburbs."

You can cherry-pick, employ semantics and create definitions to your heart’s content, but you cannot change the facts through denial. Who are you trying to protect anyway?


Not changing or protecting anything - just pointing out that 'large urban areas' are not the majority of that map, even though that's what your first reaction claimed. That claim was wrong, that's all. Nothing more, nothing less. Great that you amended it, but I wasn't the one changing what was said. Yes, there is a difference between cities of different sizes, and their suburbs/exurbs. Yes, folks in those places probably don't work in rural agriculture and the like. Wonderful work pointing out the obvious.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Virtual737
Posts: 1042
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Mon May 17, 2021 5:14 am

johns624 wrote:
Where do you come up with this crap? It's illegal for people adjudged mentally ill or convicted felons to purchase firearms. That's what's so frustrating for us responsible gun owners (99.99%). We're trying to debate with people who get their gun news from Hollywood movies. You don't even know what the facts are. It just makes you look ignorant.


What would be your ideas for tackling the problem, assuming you agree there is a problem in the first case?
 
Elkadad313
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:55 am

Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Mon May 17, 2021 4:13 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

The post I originally replied to referred to ‘living jn large urban areas’. This post is a lot of words to just cover over having made a sweeping generalization about the map in that post. It’s not semantics, but demography. Large urban areas have central cities over 250K - below that they are called ‘midsized’. Lots of places you included above are midsized, not large - which is the word you used.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/edge/docs/ ... ATIONS.pdf

Winston-Salem: 240K
Baton Rouge: 240K
Fayetteville: 210K
Shreveport: 195K
Mobile: 190K
Lafayette: 125K
Pensacola: 55K
Biloxi: 45K

And so on and so forth.

I indulged you and amended my statement. What part of "2/3s+ are in or near urban areas" do you not understand or agree with? There are three classifications: urban, suburban and rural. The cities you listed are not rural or even suburbs. My dictionary defines urban areas as, "Most inhabitants of urban areas have nonagricultural jobs. Urban areas are very developed, meaning there is a density of human structures such as houses, commercial buildings, roads, bridges, and railways. 'Urban area' can refer to towns, cities, and suburbs."

You can cherry-pick, employ semantics and create definitions to your heart’s content, but you cannot change the facts through denial. Who are you trying to protect anyway?


Not changing or protecting anything - just pointing out that 'large urban areas' are not the majority of that map, even though that's what your first reaction claimed. That claim was wrong, that's all. Nothing more, nothing less. Great that you amended it, but I wasn't the one changing what was said. Yes, there is a difference between cities of different sizes, and their suburbs/exurbs. Yes, folks in those places probably don't work in rural agriculture and the like. Wonderful work pointing out the obvious.

The epitome of grasping at straws!
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 14600
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Mon May 17, 2021 4:24 pm

Elkadad313 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
I indulged you and amended my statement. What part of "2/3s+ are in or near urban areas" do you not understand or agree with? There are three classifications: urban, suburban and rural. The cities you listed are not rural or even suburbs. My dictionary defines urban areas as, "Most inhabitants of urban areas have nonagricultural jobs. Urban areas are very developed, meaning there is a density of human structures such as houses, commercial buildings, roads, bridges, and railways. 'Urban area' can refer to towns, cities, and suburbs."

You can cherry-pick, employ semantics and create definitions to your heart’s content, but you cannot change the facts through denial. Who are you trying to protect anyway?


Not changing or protecting anything - just pointing out that 'large urban areas' are not the majority of that map, even though that's what your first reaction claimed. That claim was wrong, that's all. Nothing more, nothing less. Great that you amended it, but I wasn't the one changing what was said. Yes, there is a difference between cities of different sizes, and their suburbs/exurbs. Yes, folks in those places probably don't work in rural agriculture and the like. Wonderful work pointing out the obvious.

The epitome of grasping at straws!


It's far more adult to simply say 'my first comment was perhaps a hasty generalization'. Just a suggestion.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Elkadad313
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:55 am

Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Mon May 17, 2021 4:40 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Not changing or protecting anything - just pointing out that 'large urban areas' are not the majority of that map, even though that's what your first reaction claimed. That claim was wrong, that's all. Nothing more, nothing less. Great that you amended it, but I wasn't the one changing what was said. Yes, there is a difference between cities of different sizes, and their suburbs/exurbs. Yes, folks in those places probably don't work in rural agriculture and the like. Wonderful work pointing out the obvious.

The epitome of grasping at straws!


It's far more adult to simply say 'my first comment was perhaps a hasty generalization'. Just a suggestion.

So, that's all you've got -- semantics trumps facts? Reality is a cruel mistress, and 'some' people have perspective far-removed from reality.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4022
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Mon May 17, 2021 6:53 pm

extender wrote:
Good luck with that, that is private property between to consenting adults. And even if private sales had an ID requirement, a lot of people won't be happy, and think they need to go further, hence the line in the sand mentality.


Ever bought or sold a car privately? The ownership has to be transferred to the new buyer through your state's DMV and if that isn't done there is potential penalties for that.

How about the same for a gun? As a private seller of a firearm you have the responsibility to ensure that the buyer passes a background check and the ownership gets transferred. Failing to do this means if that gun is ever used in a crime buy the new buyer and I'm the DA, I'm going after the seller for firearm trafficking.

sierrakilo44 wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:

But any international analysis shows that access to guns is not the only issue. Other developed countries with similar gun ownership rates still have far lower gun homicide rates. Restricting access would be a start, but the US clearly has deeper issues.


That was addressed in Michael Moore’s “Bowling for Columbine” in 2003. He acknowledged other nations with gun ownership didn’t have such high gun death rates, and put it down to a culture of fear in the US, institutionalised violence and militarism, lack of social welfare services and media hype and sensationalism.


Other countries have those social problems as well.

Furthermore the problem isn't the second amendment per sey. It's the constant arguing about what reasonable regulations can be taken to ensure that guns don't fall into the wrong hands and these have to be united across the entire country. Failing that you will get a situation like Illinois where the laws are strict but are less so in Indiana where they are lax and you can get then take that gun across state lines into Chicago.

Remember the second amendment is a "Well Regulated Militia". So stricter regulation of guns should be constitutional.

Here is the process for Canada for Handguns and the restrictions. A country like Switzerland which has a very high gun ownership rate is very strict as well.

https://www.howtogetagun.ca/handguns-an ... in-canada/

Along with this I believe the buyer has to provide several character references to ensure that they are of sound mind to purchase a firearm. One of the questions they ask the reference is if the that they have to disclose if they answered any of those questions under duress.

Kiwirob wrote:
I think we can safely state that gun control won't happen in America until someone walks into the capitol building and kills 20-30 senators or representatives, even then they'll probably find some excuse not to do anything.


Can I add that that person would probably have to be a visible minority also.

One of the ways to get solid gun regulations in the US is if minorities start buying guns legally in large quantities. Regulations will pass overnight.
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