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StarAC17
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Mon May 17, 2021 6:58 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Ease of access to guns is the problem. One side honestly believes that one day, the "good guy with a gun" will actually happen and they can parade that around as proof we need unfettered access to all guns all the time.


I’ve always thought that to be very unrealistic.

A mass shooter walks into a public place with an AR-15, a few backup guns and loads of ammo. Probably wearing body armour and military clothing. He’s mentally prepared to kill. On the other side a random “good guy with a gun” probably only has a handgun with a limited amount of ammo. Is not mentally expecting to have to defend against a mass shooter. Probably has no training on how to shoot in a combat scenario. One on one it’s barely a fair fight.

“Good guy with a gun” doesn’t expect to get into a firefight that day so panics and just shoots bullets all over the place, hitting more innocent bystanders than the killer.

If he manages to get his gun out it devolves into a firefight. The police arrive on scene, see two guys shooting at each other and can’t decipher who’s the “good guy with a gun” so shoot them both.

Proponents of the “good guy with a gun” theory have watched too many movies.


To quote the Jim Jeffries bit about this about having an armed security guard at say a school.

You have the shooter with an AR-15 ready to go and then you have Kevin. Now I'm sure Kevin kicks ass at Call of Duty but that's not going to cut it son.
Furthermore the average security guard in the US makes $16/ hr, not a lot of wiggle room to be a hero!!

Regarding some of the other shootings. Lets take Aurora which happened at a cinema where its dark. You might think you are the good guy with the gun and you might shoot the other good guy with a gun and soon enough its the OK Corral with far more killed.
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue May 25, 2021 11:53 am

Well, I don't really know what to say about this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57239610

I don't see the logic at all.
 
flybaurlax
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Wed May 26, 2021 5:10 pm

 
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casinterest
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Wed May 26, 2021 6:01 pm

flybaurlax wrote:


Workplace shooting it appears.

9 dead including the shooter.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/san-jo ... index.html
 
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ER757
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Wed May 26, 2021 6:52 pm

flybaurlax wrote:

Just another day in "Murica."
\Waiting for the banner on CNN or Fox in the not too distant future - "Breaking News - no mass shootings in the US today."
 
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Aaron747
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Thu May 27, 2021 1:31 am

casinterest wrote:
flybaurlax wrote:


Workplace shooting it appears.

9 dead including the shooter.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/san-jo ... index.html


San Jose shooter was an electrician who went nutjob at a union meeting. Apparently he was mentally unstable for many years, according to an ex girlfriend who said he suddenly became mean, angry, and sexually abusive as soon as she turned down his marriage proposal after two months of dating.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/s ... 55380/?amp

https://www.kcra.com/amp/article/sam-ca ... g/36549521
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Thu May 27, 2021 2:22 am

Sad as it is, honestly my reaction would just be to post the 'Oh dear, how sad, never mind' meme, given that as a collective that's how the US population sees their mass shootings and gun problems.

Plentiful solutions, plentiful will to change something, but as long as there are those who cannot tolerate any minor hindrance to being able to own guns there's little point in doing anything.

RIP to the victims.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Fri May 28, 2021 7:01 am

Santa Clara County sheriff now reporting that the VTA shooter was scheduled for a disciplinary hearing over racist remarks he was making on the job.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigatio ... k/2556757/
 
ltbewr
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Fri May 28, 2021 7:35 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Santa Clara County sheriff now reporting that the VTA shooter was scheduled for a disciplinary hearing over racist remarks he was making on the job.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigatio ... k/2556757/

Many workplaces have adopted zero tolerance as to racist remarks and behaviors so not to lose workers but to also prevent costly lawsuits if don't take strong preventive and disciplinary actions.
The VTA mass murderer seemed to have 4 of a number of possible factors of mass murders - Workplace conflicts, racism, serious mental health problems and access to powerful guns. Perhaps the big problem is dealing with the mental health one. It is almost impossible due to medial privacy and anti-discrimination laws as to disabilities to remove them from workplaces too often until it is too late.
 
wingman
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Sat May 29, 2021 3:34 pm

Here's his arsenal. It just boggles the mind that pro 2nd Amendment Americans won't at least discuss a better way to license, track and prevent the amassing of weapons and ammunition. We should treat guns and bullets the same way we treat motor vehicles.
 
wingman
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Sat May 29, 2021 4:33 pm

 
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readytotaxi
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Sat May 29, 2021 5:20 pm

The US has recorded 233 mass shootings this year and we are only on month 5.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
 
Max Q
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Sun May 30, 2021 2:55 am

More guns, more shootings, pretty simple
 
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Aesma
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Mon May 31, 2021 1:32 pm

100 bullets fired in mass shooting that left 2 dead, 20 injured at Florida birthday bash: https://abcnews.go.com/US/dead-20-25-pe ... d=77986310

Texas man arrested for allegedly planning mass shooting at Walmart: Police : https://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-man-arr ... d=77995671
 
T4thH
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Mon May 31, 2021 1:50 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
The US has recorded 233 mass shootings this year and we are only on month 5.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/


Oh, seems that the US is on the way to a new all time record or just a record of last years? Also numbers of last years (2018/2019/2020) were....excellent....
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Mon May 31, 2021 6:18 pm

T4thH wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
The US has recorded 233 mass shootings this year and we are only on month 5.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/


Oh, seems that the US is on the way to a new all time record or just a record of last years? Also numbers of last years (2018/2019/2020) were....excellent....


It truly is a circus over there. That's averaging out to way more than one per day.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:55 am

Aesma wrote:
100 bullets fired in mass shooting that left 2 dead, 20 injured at Florida birthday bash: https://abcnews.go.com/US/dead-20-25-pe ... d=77986310

Texas man arrested for allegedly planning mass shooting at Walmart: Police : https://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-man-arr ... d=77995671


Looks like the supremacist psycho in TX wanted to outdo El Paso.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:53 pm

Santa Clara County Sheriff released bodycam footage from the VTA situation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZFJMpgGxjY
Last edited by Aaron747 on Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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casinterest
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:04 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Santa Clara County Sheriff Released bodycam footage from the VTA situation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZFJMpgGxjY



That was intense. Scary situation for all.
 
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Aesma
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Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:57 pm

Florida kids now : Florida deputies engage in shootout with 12yo boy and 14yo girl

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-03/ ... l/13371876
 
extender
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First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:08 am

A gunman who shot at paramedics, firefighters and police at three locations in Tucson, Arizona, Sunday afternoon killed a civilian and left four others injured.

In what Tucson Police Chief Chris Magnus called "an extremely complex series of incidents," another person was killed in a house fire.

Link


A convicted felon accused of fatally shooting at least one person and wounding four others, including firefighters and paramedics, during a house fire in Tucson last weekend has died at a hospital, police said Thursday.

Link


EMTs were injured as well as a neighbor. Shooter had killed his girlfriend and then set fire to the house.

Good riddance. Watching the video, that was one long pistol shot the cop took to disable the shooter.

Crazy. But it does illustrate at least one thing, gun laws don't work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqjLtKJYDB0
 
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Aaron747
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Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:23 am

extender wrote:
A gunman who shot at paramedics, firefighters and police at three locations in Tucson, Arizona, Sunday afternoon killed a civilian and left four others injured.

In what Tucson Police Chief Chris Magnus called "an extremely complex series of incidents," another person was killed in a house fire.

Link


A convicted felon accused of fatally shooting at least one person and wounding four others, including firefighters and paramedics, during a house fire in Tucson last weekend has died at a hospital, police said Thursday.

Link


EMTs were injured as well as a neighbor. Shooter had killed his girlfriend and then set fire to the house.

Good riddance. Watching the video, that was one long pistol shot the cop took to disable the shooter.

Crazy. But it does illustrate at least one thing, gun laws don't work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqjLtKJYDB0


It also illustrates that the mentally ill are out there among us in large numbers, and we all have to be vigilant every day. Some are harmless, but this guy wasn't. What a fiasco - glad he's a threat to anyone no longer.
 
wingman
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Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:23 pm

We shouldn't have ANY gun laws. The country and the people will only be safe and sound once every man, woman and child is locked and loaded at all times. We can already see the evidence over the past two years as guns have flooded the nation at record pace. Guns are a warm blanket proven to bring peace and safety to society. Remember the Wild West? We need to get back to that time and place.

This story, like all others similar to it, beget the question - why would the EMT emerge from the ambulance without AR 47s trained on the target? They need to secure the location first, determine if there's a true injury and, if not, start shooting. The questions and salvation can come later. I don't understand people.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:44 pm

wingman wrote:
We shouldn't have ANY gun laws. The country and the people will only be safe and sound once every man, woman and child is locked and loaded at all times. We can already see the evidence over the past two years as guns have flooded the nation at record pace. Guns are a warm blanket proven to bring peace and safety to society. Remember the Wild West? We need to get back to that time and place.

This story, like all others similar to it, beget the question - why would the EMT emerge from the ambulance without AR 47s trained on the target? They need to secure the location first, determine if there's a true injury and, if not, start shooting. The questions and salvation can come later. I don't understand people.


Maybe if parents and schools raised and taught responsible adults instead of entitled, narcissistic, ill-mannered children we wouldn’t have these crimes. See thread on Miami flights.
 
wingman
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Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:53 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
wingman wrote:
We shouldn't have ANY gun laws. The country and the people will only be safe and sound once every man, woman and child is locked and loaded at all times. We can already see the evidence over the past two years as guns have flooded the nation at record pace. Guns are a warm blanket proven to bring peace and safety to society. Remember the Wild West? We need to get back to that time and place.

This story, like all others similar to it, beget the question - why would the EMT emerge from the ambulance without AR 47s trained on the target? They need to secure the location first, determine if there's a true injury and, if not, start shooting. The questions and salvation can come later. I don't understand people.


Maybe if parents and schools raised and taught responsible adults instead of entitled, narcissistic, ill-mannered children we wouldn’t have these crimes. See thread on Miami flights.


Parents and children are the key difference between us and virtually every other nation. Americans are a unique breed, we're very special in so many ways and that makes our DNA practically different from the Dutch or Japanese. It's not the gun culture that's different, it must be the parenting. But then both countries are also very socialist. And socialism is so evil, especially when ingrained in the mind of a child. It's all very confusing. But I know it's the not the guns, those we need more of. Thank God for that bit of clarity.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:59 pm

Life imitates art. See: Joker movie, Devil's Rejects
 
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seb146
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Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:13 pm

We all know how this thread will go. It will devolve into

YOU'RE A LIBERAL COMMIE GUN GRABBER!!!
YOU'RE A KNUCKLE DRAGGING AMMOSEXUAL!!

and lock thread.....

We must enforce laws currently on the books. We also need a strong health care system that includes mental health care. The pandemic and the aftermath proves it.
 
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stl07
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Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:35 pm

I wonder if this is borderline personality disorder. As somebody who just a few months ago came out of one fo those relationships, I could totally see something like this happening. Granted, she was nowhere near this insane but still
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:32 pm

wingman wrote:
We shouldn't have ANY gun laws. The country and the people will only be safe and sound once every man, woman and child is locked and loaded at all times. We can already see the evidence over the past two years as guns have flooded the nation at record pace. Guns are a warm blanket proven to bring peace and safety to society. Remember the Wild West? We need to get back to that time and place.

This story, like all others similar to it, beget the question - why would the EMT emerge from the ambulance without AR 47s trained on the target? They need to secure the location first, determine if there's a true injury and, if not, start shooting. The questions and salvation can come later. I don't understand people.


Gawd I love your response.
 
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PixelPilot
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Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:00 pm

seb146 wrote:
...
We must enforce laws currently on the books. We also need a strong health care system that includes mental health care. The pandemic and the aftermath proves it.


Probably the only correct and factual sentence this thread will ever see.
 
StarAC17
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Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:07 pm

wingman wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
wingman wrote:
We shouldn't have ANY gun laws. The country and the people will only be safe and sound once every man, woman and child is locked and loaded at all times. We can already see the evidence over the past two years as guns have flooded the nation at record pace. Guns are a warm blanket proven to bring peace and safety to society. Remember the Wild West? We need to get back to that time and place.

This story, like all others similar to it, beget the question - why would the EMT emerge from the ambulance without AR 47s trained on the target? They need to secure the location first, determine if there's a true injury and, if not, start shooting. The questions and salvation can come later. I don't understand people.


Maybe if parents and schools raised and taught responsible adults instead of entitled, narcissistic, ill-mannered children we wouldn’t have these crimes. See thread on Miami flights.


Parents and children are the key difference between us and virtually every other nation. Americans are a unique breed, we're very special in so many ways and that makes our DNA practically different from the Dutch or Japanese. It's not the gun culture that's different, it must be the parenting. But then both countries are also very socialist. And socialism is so evil, especially when ingrained in the mind of a child. It's all very confusing. But I know it's the not the guns, those we need more of. Thank God for that bit of clarity.


American's have exactly the same DNA as other countries, that is just an excuse. When you travel the world (I don't know if you have or not) you realize quickly that culture is only skin deep and most people are the same.

What those countries have is a safety net to produce less losers than the US does. Other developed countries have much easier access to education and have far stronger safety net and greater upward mobility. Without those things people aren't going to get desperate and street crime is far reduced and they have difficult access to guns.
If you made it easy for the overworked Japanese to get guns, there might be an issue there. The cultures of the UK and Australia are basically identical to the US and there is less gun crime. Its difficult access to guns.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:06 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
wingman wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Maybe if parents and schools raised and taught responsible adults instead of entitled, narcissistic, ill-mannered children we wouldn’t have these crimes. See thread on Miami flights.


Parents and children are the key difference between us and virtually every other nation. Americans are a unique breed, we're very special in so many ways and that makes our DNA practically different from the Dutch or Japanese. It's not the gun culture that's different, it must be the parenting. But then both countries are also very socialist. And socialism is so evil, especially when ingrained in the mind of a child. It's all very confusing. But I know it's the not the guns, those we need more of. Thank God for that bit of clarity.


American's have exactly the same DNA as other countries, that is just an excuse. When you travel the world (I don't know if you have or not) you realize quickly that culture is only skin deep and most people are the same.

What those countries have is a safety net to produce less losers than the US does. Other developed countries have much easier access to education and have far stronger safety net and greater upward mobility. Without those things people aren't going to get desperate and street crime is far reduced and they have difficult access to guns.
If you made it easy for the overworked Japanese to get guns, there might be an issue there. The cultures of the UK and Australia are basically identical to the US and there is less gun crime. Its difficult access to guns.


While outwardly the UK, Australia and the US appear the same, I’d say their cultures vary greatly which is why there political outcomes are so different. The US is much more individualistic than either country, as it is from many countries.

Second, you think we’re the same, they how come you don’t assign responsibility to the individuals, but prefer to blame society. Put the blame where it belongs—on the criminals and their parents and families that created them.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:27 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
wingman wrote:

Parents and children are the key difference between us and virtually every other nation. Americans are a unique breed, we're very special in so many ways and that makes our DNA practically different from the Dutch or Japanese. It's not the gun culture that's different, it must be the parenting. But then both countries are also very socialist. And socialism is so evil, especially when ingrained in the mind of a child. It's all very confusing. But I know it's the not the guns, those we need more of. Thank God for that bit of clarity.


American's have exactly the same DNA as other countries, that is just an excuse. When you travel the world (I don't know if you have or not) you realize quickly that culture is only skin deep and most people are the same.

What those countries have is a safety net to produce less losers than the US does. Other developed countries have much easier access to education and have far stronger safety net and greater upward mobility. Without those things people aren't going to get desperate and street crime is far reduced and they have difficult access to guns.
If you made it easy for the overworked Japanese to get guns, there might be an issue there. The cultures of the UK and Australia are basically identical to the US and there is less gun crime. Its difficult access to guns.


While outwardly the UK, Australia and the US appear the same, I’d say their cultures vary greatly which is why there political outcomes are so different. The US is much more individualistic than either country, as it is from many countries.

Second, you think we’re the same, they how come you don’t assign responsibility to the individuals, but prefer to blame society. Put the blame where it belongs—on the criminals and their parents and families that created them.


Could just use a more accurate word and say Americans tend to run more selfish than the other two.
 
wingman
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Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:33 am

StarAC17 wrote:
American's have exactly the same DNA as other countries, that is just an excuse. When you travel the world (I don't know if you have or not) you realize quickly that culture is only skin deep and most people are the same.


My post is dripping in sarcasm. Despite what the pro gun/anti gun law lobby wants us to believe, people are the same everywhere. Aussies and Brits are just as demented as Americans. If they had as many guns and as lax a gun regulation structure as we do they'd be killing themselves at exactly the same rate. We all have violence issues, family issues, poverty issues and mental issues. It's the guns pure and simple. They need to be much more heavily regulated to give true sportsman and self-defenders the ability to own and carry what they need to for the purpose guaranteed in the Second Amendment. No one that ever wrote the Second Amendment envisioned the mass carnage we live through every day now. But here we are pushing the theory that more guns are going to make Americans safer. We're witnessing the absolute thrashing of that theory on a daily basis.

But I get it, nothing will happen until another 20-30 mass killing events, big ones like Vegas or atrocious ones like Sandy Hook. I figure a single event like Sandy Hook with at least 100 dead students would sicken GOP constituents enough to mandate licensing, training and insurance policies. Maybe not though. It might take 3 or 4 of those kinds of events in sequence to crack the idiocy of our lax gun culture.
 
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seb146
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Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:03 am

PixelPilot wrote:
seb146 wrote:
...
We must enforce laws currently on the books. We also need a strong health care system that includes mental health care. The pandemic and the aftermath proves it.


Probably the only correct and factual sentence this thread will ever see.


Unfortunately, we can not have any of that because it is socialism. Be kind to one another and help one another. Not in a Christian way because, after all, this is a Christian nation....
 
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Aaron747
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Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:17 am

wingman wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
American's have exactly the same DNA as other countries, that is just an excuse. When you travel the world (I don't know if you have or not) you realize quickly that culture is only skin deep and most people are the same.


My post is dripping in sarcasm. Despite what the pro gun/anti gun law lobby wants us to believe, people are the same everywhere. Aussies and Brits are just as demented as Americans. If they had as many guns and as lax a gun regulation structure as we do they'd be killing themselves at exactly the same rate. We all have violence issues, family issues, poverty issues and mental issues. It's the guns pure and simple. They need to be much more heavily regulated to give true sportsman and self-defenders the ability to own and carry what they need to for the purpose guaranteed in the Second Amendment. No one that ever wrote the Second Amendment envisioned the mass carnage we live through every day now. But here we are pushing the theory that more guns are going to make Americans safer. We're witnessing the absolute thrashing of that theory on a daily basis.

But I get it, nothing will happen until another 20-30 mass killing events, big ones like Vegas or atrocious ones like Sandy Hook. I figure a single event like Sandy Hook with at least 100 dead students would sicken GOP constituents enough to mandate licensing, training and insurance policies. Maybe not though. It might take 3 or 4 of those kinds of events in sequence to crack the idiocy of our lax gun culture.


The great sarcasm aside, the serious matter here is that not everything will be prevented by more stringent regulation. It will help, but only to a certain extent. The fact remains there are certain states where stringent regulation will never be popular, which means the specter of being able to cross state lines to acquire weapons more easily will always remain. Then there are the millions of firearms already in illegal circulation that cannot be traced. We are in so deep, it is only pragmatic to expect incremental and modest improvements over time regardless of enforcement levels.
 
StarAC17
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Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:13 am

wingman wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
American's have exactly the same DNA as other countries, that is just an excuse. When you travel the world (I don't know if you have or not) you realize quickly that culture is only skin deep and most people are the same.


My post is dripping in sarcasm. Despite what the pro gun/anti gun law lobby wants us to believe, people are the same everywhere. Aussies and Brits are just as demented as Americans. If they had as many guns and as lax a gun regulation structure as we do they'd be killing themselves at exactly the same rate. We all have violence issues, family issues, poverty issues and mental issues. It's the guns pure and simple. They need to be much more heavily regulated to give true sportsman and self-defenders the ability to own and carry what they need to for the purpose guaranteed in the Second Amendment. No one that ever wrote the Second Amendment envisioned the mass carnage we live through every day now. But here we are pushing the theory that more guns are going to make Americans safer. We're witnessing the absolute thrashing of that theory on a daily basis.

But I get it, nothing will happen until another 20-30 mass killing events, big ones like Vegas or atrocious ones like Sandy Hook. I figure a single event like Sandy Hook with at least 100 dead students would sicken GOP constituents enough to mandate licensing, training and insurance policies. Maybe not though. It might take 3 or 4 of those kinds of events in sequence to crack the idiocy of our lax gun culture.


I got it on the first post, I guess not on the second. My bad.
 
StarAC17
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Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:26 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
wingman wrote:

Parents and children are the key difference between us and virtually every other nation. Americans are a unique breed, we're very special in so many ways and that makes our DNA practically different from the Dutch or Japanese. It's not the gun culture that's different, it must be the parenting. But then both countries are also very socialist. And socialism is so evil, especially when ingrained in the mind of a child. It's all very confusing. But I know it's the not the guns, those we need more of. Thank God for that bit of clarity.


American's have exactly the same DNA as other countries, that is just an excuse. When you travel the world (I don't know if you have or not) you realize quickly that culture is only skin deep and most people are the same.

What those countries have is a safety net to produce less losers than the US does. Other developed countries have much easier access to education and have far stronger safety net and greater upward mobility. Without those things people aren't going to get desperate and street crime is far reduced and they have difficult access to guns.
If you made it easy for the overworked Japanese to get guns, there might be an issue there. The cultures of the UK and Australia are basically identical to the US and there is less gun crime. Its difficult access to guns.


While outwardly the UK, Australia and the US appear the same, I’d say their cultures vary greatly which is why there political outcomes are so different. The US is much more individualistic than either country, as it is from many countries.

Second, you think we’re the same, they how come you don’t assign responsibility to the individuals, but prefer to blame society. Put the blame where it belongs—on the criminals and their parents and families that created them.


I do blame easy access to guns as the problem for a lot of the US faces with homicides and suicides. The everyone for themselves attitude doesn't help because people will get desperate and act on those survival instincts and sell drugs and get involved with gangs. If this is the only community an inner city kid can find then that is where they will go. If that kid's dad was sent to jail for carrying a dime of weed (something a person in the suburbs will get away with) then that person cannot ever be gainfully employed again. Perpetuating a lot of these problems.

I have had mental health issues that if I had easy access to guns might have made it far easier to kill myself about a decade ago. Not having something that acts as fast as gun can easily prevent a suicide especially when those thoughts are brought about by brief but intense anxiety. Thankfully in Canada I can't get them easily and got treatment for those issues. I couldn't pass a background check for a gun now.

Are my mental health issues (that did relapse during covid lockdowns) a failing on how I was raised. Perhaps but it doesn't stop most people from being productive members of society if adequately treated.
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13633
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:47 am

wingman wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
American's have exactly the same DNA as other countries, that is just an excuse. When you travel the world (I don't know if you have or not) you realize quickly that culture is only skin deep and most people are the same.


My post is dripping in sarcasm. Despite what the pro gun/anti gun law lobby wants us to believe, people are the same everywhere. Aussies and Brits are just as demented as Americans. If they had as many guns and as lax a gun regulation structure as we do they'd be killing themselves at exactly the same rate. We all have violence issues, family issues, poverty issues and mental issues. It's the guns pure and simple. They need to be much more heavily regulated to give true sportsman and self-defenders the ability to own and carry what they need to for the purpose guaranteed in the Second Amendment. No one that ever wrote the Second Amendment envisioned the mass carnage we live through every day now. But here we are pushing the theory that more guns are going to make Americans safer. We're witnessing the absolute thrashing of that theory on a daily basis.

But I get it, nothing will happen until another 20-30 mass killing events, big ones like Vegas or atrocious ones like Sandy Hook. I figure a single event like Sandy Hook with at least 100 dead students would sicken GOP constituents enough to mandate licensing, training and insurance policies. Maybe not though. It might take 3 or 4 of those kinds of events in sequence to crack the idiocy of our lax gun culture.


Access to guns is fairly easy in the U.K. and Australia, you just need to go through the process to get one. The difference is the type of weapons available isn’t the same and the general population are genuinely not interested in arming themselves.
 
chimborazo
Posts: 445
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:51 pm

Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:55 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
wingman wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
American's have exactly the same DNA as other countries, that is just an excuse. When you travel the world (I don't know if you have or not) you realize quickly that culture is only skin deep and most people are the same.


My post is dripping in sarcasm. Despite what the pro gun/anti gun law lobby wants us to believe, people are the same everywhere. Aussies and Brits are just as demented as Americans. If they had as many guns and as lax a gun regulation structure as we do they'd be killing themselves at exactly the same rate. We all have violence issues, family issues, poverty issues and mental issues. It's the guns pure and simple. They need to be much more heavily regulated to give true sportsman and self-defenders the ability to own and carry what they need to for the purpose guaranteed in the Second Amendment. No one that ever wrote the Second Amendment envisioned the mass carnage we live through every day now. But here we are pushing the theory that more guns are going to make Americans safer. We're witnessing the absolute thrashing of that theory on a daily basis.

But I get it, nothing will happen until another 20-30 mass killing events, big ones like Vegas or atrocious ones like Sandy Hook. I figure a single event like Sandy Hook with at least 100 dead students would sicken GOP constituents enough to mandate licensing, training and insurance policies. Maybe not though. It might take 3 or 4 of those kinds of events in sequence to crack the idiocy of our lax gun culture.


Access to guns is fairly easy in the U.K. and Australia, you just need to go through the process to get one. The difference is the type of weapons available isn’t the same and the general population are genuinely not interested in arming themselves.



Correct. Because here in the UK we had a couple of mass shootings and realised enough was enough. Pistols were banned and regulations tightened. It’s still relatively easy to get weapons (if you can be arsed) but, as noted, very few people are interested in having them.

Watching the video, no sympathy for the shooter. I hope it hurt. Half expecting there to be a law suit against the officer for cuffing him though… that just seems to be the way of things these days. Yes this is sarcasm but based on the way the modern world is heading.
 
GDB
Posts: 14395
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:02 pm

chimborazo wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
wingman wrote:

My post is dripping in sarcasm. Despite what the pro gun/anti gun law lobby wants us to believe, people are the same everywhere. Aussies and Brits are just as demented as Americans. If they had as many guns and as lax a gun regulation structure as we do they'd be killing themselves at exactly the same rate. We all have violence issues, family issues, poverty issues and mental issues. It's the guns pure and simple. They need to be much more heavily regulated to give true sportsman and self-defenders the ability to own and carry what they need to for the purpose guaranteed in the Second Amendment. No one that ever wrote the Second Amendment envisioned the mass carnage we live through every day now. But here we are pushing the theory that more guns are going to make Americans safer. We're witnessing the absolute thrashing of that theory on a daily basis.

But I get it, nothing will happen until another 20-30 mass killing events, big ones like Vegas or atrocious ones like Sandy Hook. I figure a single event like Sandy Hook with at least 100 dead students would sicken GOP constituents enough to mandate licensing, training and insurance policies. Maybe not though. It might take 3 or 4 of those kinds of events in sequence to crack the idiocy of our lax gun culture.


Access to guns is fairly easy in the U.K. and Australia, you just need to go through the process to get one. The difference is the type of weapons available isn’t the same and the general population are genuinely not interested in arming themselves.



Correct. Because here in the UK we had a couple of mass shootings and realised enough was enough. Pistols were banned and regulations tightened. It’s still relatively easy to get weapons (if you can be arsed) but, as noted, very few people are interested in having them.

Watching the video, no sympathy for the shooter. I hope it hurt. Half expecting there to be a law suit against the officer for cuffing him though… that just seems to be the way of things these days. Yes this is sarcasm but based on the way the modern world is heading.


True, gun obsessives here would be viewed as wierd or even of concern, want to learn to shoot (properly) then join the armed forces, or the police if you are pepared to to serve your time as a beat officer then apply for firearms training, which is long and stringent. If you are ex military then maybe the small specialised units like the Ministry of Defence Police, VIP/Diplomatic Protection/Special Branch, or the force that guards nuclear power plants.

Someone with a legitimate use, usually rural, can apply for a licence, for a shotgun and/or .22 bolt action, after backgroud checks and demonstration of secure storage.
The days of a few wanting semi auto versions of the AK, that ended after one was used in the 1987 Hungerford massacre, selfloading pistols like the Browning used at Dunblane in 1996. So if in the UK you want a penis extension AR-15, forget it.

This does not prevent criminals from getting them, ‘them’ however is usually reactivated ones or converted replicas, bad but not anything with 30 high velocity rounds in the mag. Being convicted of these illegal conversions means a prison sentence likey in the double figures in years before parole consideration.
Still some ‘real’ ones get through but they are the exception.

Nations and societies change, so do laws and the nature of some crimes, from the 70’s through to the early 90’s robbing wages vans and banks usually with sawn off shotguns was common, the great reduction in cash being moved and stored plus a whole generation of ‘blaggers’ were caught, chose other less directly risky criminality or in some cases shot by units specialising in countering this sort of crime like London’s Flying Squad, made this crime much less common.
Guns now are mainly for turf wars between gangs related to drugs, sweep one of those up and the hauls for the police usually are drugs, money, guns.

What is clear is that, so far, extremists, ususlly Islamist, in their attacks rely on knifes and fake sucide vests, imagine if they could get the sort of weapons used at Hungerford or the vast array of worse ones available in the US with miminal or no checks.

Finally, who here can remember when even in the US mass shootings were quite rare, as in a few per decade?
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8314
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:20 am

GDB wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

Access to guns is fairly easy in the U.K. and Australia, you just need to go through the process to get one. The difference is the type of weapons available isn’t the same and the general population are genuinely not interested in arming themselves.



Correct. Because here in the UK we had a couple of mass shootings and realised enough was enough. Pistols were banned and regulations tightened. It’s still relatively easy to get weapons (if you can be arsed) but, as noted, very few people are interested in having them.

Watching the video, no sympathy for the shooter. I hope it hurt. Half expecting there to be a law suit against the officer for cuffing him though… that just seems to be the way of things these days. Yes this is sarcasm but based on the way the modern world is heading.


True, gun obsessives here would be viewed as wierd or even of concern, want to learn to shoot (properly) then join the armed forces, or the police if you are pepared to to serve your time as a beat officer then apply for firearms training, which is long and stringent. If you are ex military then maybe the small specialised units like the Ministry of Defence Police, VIP/Diplomatic Protection/Special Branch, or the force that guards nuclear power plants.

Someone with a legitimate use, usually rural, can apply for a licence, for a shotgun and/or .22 bolt action, after backgroud checks and demonstration of secure storage.
The days of a few wanting semi auto versions of the AK, that ended after one was used in the 1987 Hungerford massacre, selfloading pistols like the Browning used at Dunblane in 1996. So if in the UK you want a penis extension AR-15, forget it.

This does not prevent criminals from getting them, ‘them’ however is usually reactivated ones or converted replicas, bad but not anything with 30 high velocity rounds in the mag. Being convicted of these illegal conversions means a prison sentence likey in the double figures in years before parole consideration.
Still some ‘real’ ones get through but they are the exception.

Nations and societies change, so do laws and the nature of some crimes, from the 70’s through to the early 90’s robbing wages vans and banks usually with sawn off shotguns was common, the great reduction in cash being moved and stored plus a whole generation of ‘blaggers’ were caught, chose other less directly risky criminality or in some cases shot by units specialising in countering this sort of crime like London’s Flying Squad, made this crime much less common.
Guns now are mainly for turf wars between gangs related to drugs, sweep one of those up and the hauls for the police usually are drugs, money, guns.

What is clear is that, so far, extremists, ususlly Islamist, in their attacks rely on knifes and fake sucide vests, imagine if they could get the sort of weapons used at Hungerford or the vast array of worse ones available in the US with miminal or no checks.

Finally, who here can remember when even in the US mass shootings were quite rare, as in a few per decade?


You might be interested to know some of the best shooters in the world are Brits, sporting shooting sports, specifically. Brits invented most of the games. Look up George Digweed, Ben Husthwaite for starters. Two clubs I shoot at here in the US are run by expat Brits.

https://www.benhusthwaite.co.uk/
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8314
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:24 am

Aaron747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:

American's have exactly the same DNA as other countries, that is just an excuse. When you travel the world (I don't know if you have or not) you realize quickly that culture is only skin deep and most people are the same.

What those countries have is a safety net to produce less losers than the US does. Other developed countries have much easier access to education and have far stronger safety net and greater upward mobility. Without those things people aren't going to get desperate and street crime is far reduced and they have difficult access to guns.
If you made it easy for the overworked Japanese to get guns, there might be an issue there. The cultures of the UK and Australia are basically identical to the US and there is less gun crime. Its difficult access to guns.


While outwardly the UK, Australia and the US appear the same, I’d say their cultures vary greatly which is why there political outcomes are so different. The US is much more individualistic than either country, as it is from many countries.

Second, you think we’re the same, they how come you don’t assign responsibility to the individuals, but prefer to blame society. Put the blame where it belongs—on the criminals and their parents and families that created them.


Could just use a more accurate word and say Americans tend to run more selfish than the other two.


Yes, now, victimhood being the normal course—selfish is perhaps better. Wanting something for nothing is selfish. Individualistic means possessing self-discipline, having the drive to obtain an education, learn skills that have economic value so that one can provide for themselves and their family without demanding others do so for them.
 
JJJ
Posts: 4109
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: First Repsonders Shot In Tucson

Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:40 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
GDB wrote:
chimborazo wrote:


Correct. Because here in the UK we had a couple of mass shootings and realised enough was enough. Pistols were banned and regulations tightened. It’s still relatively easy to get weapons (if you can be arsed) but, as noted, very few people are interested in having them.

Watching the video, no sympathy for the shooter. I hope it hurt. Half expecting there to be a law suit against the officer for cuffing him though… that just seems to be the way of things these days. Yes this is sarcasm but based on the way the modern world is heading.


True, gun obsessives here would be viewed as wierd or even of concern, want to learn to shoot (properly) then join the armed forces, or the police if you are pepared to to serve your time as a beat officer then apply for firearms training, which is long and stringent. If you are ex military then maybe the small specialised units like the Ministry of Defence Police, VIP/Diplomatic Protection/Special Branch, or the force that guards nuclear power plants.

Someone with a legitimate use, usually rural, can apply for a licence, for a shotgun and/or .22 bolt action, after backgroud checks and demonstration of secure storage.
The days of a few wanting semi auto versions of the AK, that ended after one was used in the 1987 Hungerford massacre, selfloading pistols like the Browning used at Dunblane in 1996. So if in the UK you want a penis extension AR-15, forget it.

This does not prevent criminals from getting them, ‘them’ however is usually reactivated ones or converted replicas, bad but not anything with 30 high velocity rounds in the mag. Being convicted of these illegal conversions means a prison sentence likey in the double figures in years before parole consideration.
Still some ‘real’ ones get through but they are the exception.

Nations and societies change, so do laws and the nature of some crimes, from the 70’s through to the early 90’s robbing wages vans and banks usually with sawn off shotguns was common, the great reduction in cash being moved and stored plus a whole generation of ‘blaggers’ were caught, chose other less directly risky criminality or in some cases shot by units specialising in countering this sort of crime like London’s Flying Squad, made this crime much less common.
Guns now are mainly for turf wars between gangs related to drugs, sweep one of those up and the hauls for the police usually are drugs, money, guns.

What is clear is that, so far, extremists, ususlly Islamist, in their attacks rely on knifes and fake sucide vests, imagine if they could get the sort of weapons used at Hungerford or the vast array of worse ones available in the US with miminal or no checks.

Finally, who here can remember when even in the US mass shootings were quite rare, as in a few per decade?


You might be interested to know some of the best shooters in the world are Brits, sporting shooting sports, specifically. Brits invented most of the games. Look up George Digweed, Ben Husthwaite for starters. Two clubs I shoot at here in the US are run by expat Brits.

https://www.benhusthwaite.co.uk/


Sports shooters are generaly not gun obsessives by any measure.

Most people at my club own one, maybe two guns if they shoot multiple categories.

I'm in the higher bracket of ownership with 4 guns. Hunters and collectors tend to be much more of hoarder than sports shooters who want get good with their particular tool of choice.
 
wingman
Posts: 4171
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:26 pm

I saw countless fights, truly vicious ones at times, growing up in Spain. It's a country with plenty of history of violence in day to day life..exactly like any other country. They hunt and sport shoot too, just like every other first world country. The key difference is they don't have six or seven different distribution channels flooding Madrid and Barcelona markets with hundreds of thousands of weapons every year. I don't know what licensing, training and storage look like but I also don't recall a thousand concert goers, elementary school kids and gay people being slaughtered to death there either. It's the guns and a complete lack of control in their numbers, distribution and registration. It's a simple enough choice - are legitimate gun owners willing to go through some very moderate burden to help us turn the tide of gun deaths? So far just the opposite, they want ever more guns to flood the country so that it becomes safer for everyone (the GOP-NRA hypothesis). But just like the mouse in the cocaine-water maze, the story won't end well.
 
chimborazo
Posts: 445
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:51 pm

Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:13 pm

wingman wrote:
I saw countless fights, truly vicious ones at times, growing up in Spain. It's a country with plenty of history of violence in day to day life..exactly like any other country. They hunt and sport shoot too, just like every other first world country. The key difference is they don't have six or seven different distribution channels flooding Madrid and Barcelona markets with hundreds of thousands of weapons every year. I don't know what licensing, training and storage look like but I also don't recall a thousand concert goers, elementary school kids and gay people being slaughtered to death there either. It's the guns and a complete lack of control in their numbers, distribution and registration. It's a simple enough choice - are legitimate gun owners willing to go through some very moderate burden to help us turn the tide of gun deaths? So far just the opposite, they want ever more guns to flood the country so that it becomes safer for everyone (the GOP-NRA hypothesis). But just like the mouse in the cocaine-water maze, the story won't end well.


They’re employing the “herd immunity” method. Everyone gets it then it disappears from… oh… hang on a minute…. The virus then becomes the vaccine for itself. Win-win, surely :banghead:
 
extender
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 am

Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:39 pm

Shootings are not happening because we as Americans are selfish. I'll admit, there are a lot of screwballs that shouldn't own guns. But the problem is the screwballs, and felons know where to get firearms.

There is also the developing issue that people's respect for life is diminishing as well as a respect for authority. tart cleaning up cesspools like Chicago and then we can talk.
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Posts: 8093
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:48 pm

All round respect for most things is certainly diminishing in the world as a whole. Little if anything is taught on the subject in schools these days, and that is where you need to get them if things are gonna change for the better. :(
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13927
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:53 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
All round respect for most things is certainly diminishing in the world as a whole. Little if anything is taught on the subject in schools these days, and that is where you need to get them if things are gonna change for the better. :(


Where do quotes like this come from?

Seriously.

Schools have codes of conduct that result in suspensions and discipline. Perhaps you are complaining about bad parents and not schools?
 
art
Posts: 4184
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: United States Mass Shooting Thread

Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:57 pm

casinterest wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
All round respect for most things is certainly diminishing in the world as a whole. Little if anything is taught on the subject in schools these days, and that is where you need to get them if things are gonna change for the better. :(


Where do quotes like this come from?

Seriously.

Schools have codes of conduct that result in suspensions and discipline. Perhaps you are complaining about bad parents and not schools?


:checkmark:

I do not think it is the job of schools to repair the damage done to children by defective parents. It is the job of parents to do something about their own defects, not to demand someone else fix the problems those create.

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