Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 25730
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:40 pm

Kinda surprised this didn't attract notice here, given the link to Fedex:

A gunman opened fire outside and inside a FedEx Ground facility near Indianapolis' main airport Thursday night, killing eight people, wounding several others and sending witnesses running before taking his own life, police said.

Ref: https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/16/us/india ... index.html

Guess we needed more good people with guns...
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 1292
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:42 pm

Already being discussed
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1459909

There is now a general "United States Mass Shooting" thread. Yes, kinda depressing when the rationale is because there have been too many separate threads about mass shootings
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 25730
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:45 pm

Pretty sad people want to diminish the impact of these events with a catch-all thread, IMO.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14209
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:37 pm

Revelation wrote:
Pretty sad people want to diminish the impact of these events with a catch-all thread, IMO.


Even more sad is when a police officer is killed in the line of duty there are never threads about it here. It speaks volumes.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 25730
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:39 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Pretty sad people want to diminish the impact of these events with a catch-all thread, IMO.


Even more sad is when a police officer is killed in the line of duty there are never threads about it here. It speaks volumes.

Each and every member has the same ability to create threads.

If you're moved to do so, do it!

If you're not, don't complain that others didn't do for you something you could have done yourself.

PS: The article in the thread starter has a lot of praise for how the police handled this incident.

Sadly, they are getting a lot of practice in dealing with mass shooting events.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19695
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:49 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Even more sad is when a police officer is killed in the line of duty there are never threads about it here. It speaks volumes.


Man who can start a thread on any topic, complains there isn't a thread on his preferred topic.

And they say Americans don't do irony. :lol:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Newark727
Posts: 2321
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:24 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Pretty sad people want to diminish the impact of these events with a catch-all thread, IMO.


Even more sad is when a police officer is killed in the line of duty there are never threads about it here. It speaks volumes.


Only three replies before the first whataboutism. Impressive.

Too bad those police officers didn't have guns to protect themselves. Wait...
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14209
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:29 pm

Revelation wrote:
Each and every member has the same ability to create threads.

.


Exactly right. Again it speaks volumes.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 13986
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:39 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Each and every member has the same ability to create threads.

.


Exactly right. Again it speaks volumes.


So where are your threads on victims in blue bud?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
johns624
Posts: 3452
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:53 pm

It appears that the man's mother reported him to the FBI last year because she thought be wanted a "suicide by cop". The agents interviewed him and didn't find any cause of concern. Why didn't they get mental health professionals involved? They don't have the training.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/gunma ... d=msedgntp
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 13986
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:00 am

johns624 wrote:
It appears that the man's mother reported him to the FBI last year because she thought be wanted a "suicide by cop". The agents interviewed him and didn't find any cause of concern. Why didn't they get mental health professionals involved? They don't have the training.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/gunma ... d=msedgntp


It probably isn't that simple. FBI personnel typically have extensive training in any number of disciplines. Local police? Not so much.

1. The mother should have called the local authorities, not the FBI.

2. If he was put in temporary mental health detention by local authorities and got released, they didn't diagnose anything of concern. Perhaps the initial interviews were too short, or Marion County may lack necessary authority to continue detention under state law.

3. Families are between a rock and a hard place in these situations. How do you confiscate an 18 year-old's weapons without a possible serious confrontation? Calling the cops to have the weapons taken away won't work in every instance either, especially if they are properly purchased. It seems we're missing a middle ground solution for family members who have serious concerns about someone in the home.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
johns624
Posts: 3452
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:10 am

It doesn't appear that local authorities were involved. The FBI agents interviewed him and didn't find any cause for concern.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 13986
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:17 am

johns624 wrote:
It doesn't appear that local authorities were involved. The FBI agents interviewed him and didn't find any cause for concern.


The article doesn’t say which authorities placed him under temporary mental health administration.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3591
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:40 am

Aaron747 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
It appears that the man's mother reported him to the FBI last year because she thought be wanted a "suicide by cop". The agents interviewed him and didn't find any cause of concern. Why didn't they get mental health professionals involved? They don't have the training.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/gunma ... d=msedgntp


It probably isn't that simple. FBI personnel typically have extensive training in any number of disciplines. Local police? Not so much.

1. The mother should have called the local authorities, not the FBI.

2. If he was put in temporary mental health detention by local authorities and got released, they didn't diagnose anything of concern. Perhaps the initial interviews were too short, or Marion County may lack necessary authority to continue detention under state law.

3. Families are between a rock and a hard place in these situations. How do you confiscate an 18 year-old's weapons without a possible serious confrontation? Calling the cops to have the weapons taken away won't work in every instance either, especially if they are properly purchased. It seems we're missing a middle ground solution for family members who have serious concerns about someone in the home.


Apparently IMPD did took away one of his shotgun in March 2020. But that didn't solve anything as he managed to get a rifle this time around.
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 2612
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:38 am

I think men need to start learning how to throw glasses and plates, and go to a junkyard and take a baseball bat to a car. Do that.

And see a therapist.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
pune
Posts: 468
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:05 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Pretty sad people want to diminish the impact of these events with a catch-all thread, IMO.


Even more sad is when a police officer is killed in the line of duty there are never threads about it here. It speaks volumes.


And when the police officers themselves don't want to see more permitless guns on the street then it becomes about something else -

https://www.captainsjournal.com/2021/04 ... -in-texas/
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13381
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:38 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Pretty sad people want to diminish the impact of these events with a catch-all thread, IMO.


Even more sad is when a police officer is killed in the line of duty there are never threads about it here. It speaks volumes.


We don’t have threads when soldiers are killed in battle either. A cop being killed is just one of the dangers inherent in policing in the US. It’s not really news.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 13986
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:56 am

Kiwirob wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Pretty sad people want to diminish the impact of these events with a catch-all thread, IMO.


Even more sad is when a police officer is killed in the line of duty there are never threads about it here. It speaks volumes.


We don’t have threads when soldiers are killed in battle either. A cop being killed is just one of the dangers inherent in policing in the US. It’s not really news.


Exactly. That probably has a lot to do with their support for proper licensing and permits instead of Wild West BS like the SC and TX laws.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15606
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:30 am

Just another day in America. Once again a terrible mix of too easy access to slightly altered military grade weapons, mental health problems, our uneven and confusing gun laws and the sick, pro-gun culture of the USA has led to another deadly mass shooting attack. Sadly, there is no easy way to fix it.
 
petertenthije
Posts: 4119
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:45 am

Kiwirob wrote:
We don’t have threads when soldiers are killed in battle either. A cop being killed is just one of the dangers inherent in policing in the US. It’s not really news.

If that is the reason... why do mass shootings still make the news? They are as American as apple pie. The mere fact that an international forum like airliners now has a “put your US mass-shootings here”-thread should make that obvious.
The first thing to remember is always treat your kite like you treat your woman.
Get inside her five times a day and take her to heaven and back!
Lord Flashheart, 1989
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13381
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:16 pm

petertenthije wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
We don’t have threads when soldiers are killed in battle either. A cop being killed is just one of the dangers inherent in policing in the US. It’s not really news.

If that is the reason... why do mass shootings still make the news? They are as American as apple pie. The mere fact that an international forum like airliners now has a “put your US mass-shootings here”-thread should make that obvious.


Because police and soldiers know what they are getting into, random civilians killed in a massacre aren’t expecting to be killed as they go about there lives and as such is newsworthy, especially when the death toll is high.
 
User avatar
cjg225
Posts: 2128
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:59 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:25 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
I think men need to start learning how to throw glasses and plates, and go to a junkyard and take a baseball bat to a car. Do that.

And see a therapist.

There are actually businesses specifically for that. They're called Rage Rooms.
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 25730
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:47 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Each and every member has the same ability to create threads.

Exactly right. Again it speaks volumes.

So where are your threads on victims in blue bud?

Indeed. Typical Trumper, wants to sit back and put sticks into the spokes then tweet about it at midnight from bed, instead of doing anything themselves.

Kiwirob wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
We don’t have threads when soldiers are killed in battle either. A cop being killed is just one of the dangers inherent in policing in the US. It’s not really news.

If that is the reason... why do mass shootings still make the news? They are as American as apple pie. The mere fact that an international forum like airliners now has a “put your US mass-shootings here”-thread should make that obvious.

Because police and soldiers know what they are getting into, random civilians killed in a massacre aren’t expecting to be killed as they go about there lives and as such is newsworthy, especially when the death toll is high.

The gun nut's answer is we should all be packing.

We should be prepared for every trip to check the mail or buy some diapers to turn in to the shootout at the OK Corral.

When we go to bed at night, our last thoughts should be about the move we'll make to roll out of bed, get the gun out of the night stand, pivot to shooting position, aim and shoot the first thing that moves, and if it's one of our own kids, thoughts and prayers will carry us through that.

Arm the teachers, arm the passengers, carry a gun everywhere you go, it's the American Way.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 2478
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:04 pm

I'd like information as to the security in that Fed Ex employee parking lot. Can anyone just drive in, or, do you have to have a card to get into the parking lot.

What kind of security does that Fed Ex facility have. Armed guard(s) or guards of any kind? Did the shooter encounter any guards??

The FBI has all of his computer devices now. They'll know every chat room and social media he had contact with, although I don't think that the FBI is required to share that information with the General Public.

Change Laws so that it is easier to have someone committed. Use that Trillion Dollar infrastructure money to build out Mental Institutions around the nation. Make Mental Institutions Great Again!!
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
alfa164
Posts: 3885
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:46 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Just another day in America. Once again a terrible mix of too easy access to slightly altered military grade weapons, mental health problems, our uneven and confusing gun laws and the sick, pro-gun culture of the USA has led to another deadly mass shooting attack. Sadly, there is no easy way to fix it.


Sure, it is easy to fix it. Don't "thoughts and prayers" take care of the problem?

;)
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
johns624
Posts: 3452
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:25 pm

I can't reconcile the police saying he wasn't a danger while still taking his shotgun. If you feel the need to disarm him, he's obviously a danger to himself or others.
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 2612
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:14 pm

cjg225 wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
I think men need to start learning how to throw glasses and plates, and go to a junkyard and take a baseball bat to a car. Do that.

And see a therapist.

There are actually businesses specifically for that. They're called Rage Rooms.


Yeah I've seen some of those videos, never knew what it was called. I love to throw a glass about twice a year on average. I try to choose a cheap one. (I have a thing for expensive stemware/barware/glassware.) I meticulously clean it up afterwards. LMAO I'm weird.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
Elkadad313
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:55 am

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:37 pm

johns624 wrote:
I can't reconcile the police saying he wasn't a danger while still taking his shotgun. If you feel the need to disarm him, he's obviously a danger to himself or others.

Every agency is rightfully concerned about easily-filed lawsuits. Family and friends are often rightfully concerned about triggering the red flag process due to sympathy or possible recrimination. Most Courts are too lenient (often for the same reasons). The 2nd is not going away, so we need to develop a better way to detect and deal with these nut jobs. To me, most offenders in mass shootings appear to be the result of cousins that marry and/or from dysfunctional families.

Certain 'personal rights' be damned, we need to start there. The what and why parts are pretty straightforward; the how presents an extremely formidable obstacle. There must be a fine line somewhere between the current situation and Big Brother. I hope we find the answer soon.
 
maverick4002
Posts: 398
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:31 am

scbriml wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Even more sad is when a police officer is killed in the line of duty there are never threads about it here. It speaks volumes.


Man who can start a thread on any topic, complains there isn't a thread on his preferred topic.

And they say Americans don't do irony. :lol:


Typical, that type always wants to play the victim and want to be oppressed smh
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 2478
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:23 am

Pellegrine wrote:
cjg225 wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
I think men need to start learning how to throw glasses and plates, and go to a junkyard and take a baseball bat to a car. Do that.

And see a therapist.

There are actually businesses specifically for that. They're called Rage Rooms.


Yeah I've seen some of those videos, never knew what it was called. I love to throw a glass about twice a year on average. I try to choose a cheap one. (I have a thing for expensive stemware/barware/glassware.) I meticulously clean it up afterwards. LMAO I'm weird.


There was a large open container at the re-cycling center, the size that would fit on the flatbed of a truck, that was to collect glass to be re-cycled. I reveled in the process of placing glass in that container, with a good, strong, throw. I guess I should wear eye protection, but the distance for the glass to shatter back was a safe one.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 25730
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:12 pm

As seen on Twitter:

Good morning.

The United States does not have more mental illness than other countries.

It has more guns.

Ref: https://twitter.com/HeidiNBC/status/1383769006528634881
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
acavpics
Posts: 543
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:54 am

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:46 pm

Is there a way for Biden to mandate background checks and a red flag law WITHOUT congress/ Because even with a 50-50 split in congress, I don't see legislation passing, considering that Manchin and Sinema are pro filibuster.
 
johns624
Posts: 3452
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:07 pm

acavpics wrote:
Is there a way for Biden to mandate background checks and a red flag law WITHOUT congress/ Because even with a 50-50 split in congress, I don't see legislation passing, considering that Manchin and Sinema are pro filibuster.
I'm a long time gun owner and here is what I think. The background check bill isn't bad except for one part. That mandates background checks for lending a gun to anyone, even a relative. So if you have a hunting rifle that your brother wants to use, and you can't go with him, you have to go to a gun shop and get a background check. I understand the need when it's a sale, but not a loan. There are already ways to take a person's guns---it's called failing a psych evaluation. Taking one's guns and then having to show that you are allowed to get them back isn't due process.
 
JJJ
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:48 pm

johns624 wrote:
acavpics wrote:
Is there a way for Biden to mandate background checks and a red flag law WITHOUT congress/ Because even with a 50-50 split in congress, I don't see legislation passing, considering that Manchin and Sinema are pro filibuster.
I'm a long time gun owner and here is what I think. The background check bill isn't bad except for one part. That mandates background checks for lending a gun to anyone, even a relative. So if you have a hunting rifle that your brother wants to use, and you can't go with him, you have to go to a gun shop and get a background check. I understand the need when it's a sale, but not a loan. There are already ways to take a person's guns---it's called failing a psych evaluation. Taking one's guns and then having to show that you are allowed to get them back isn't due process.


Would you like liability to stay with the gun, then?

From recent events, family and friends are definitely not the best judge on whether someone should have access to a gun. Even if it's just temporary.
 
johns624
Posts: 3452
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:42 pm

JJJ wrote:
johns624 wrote:
acavpics wrote:
Is there a way for Biden to mandate background checks and a red flag law WITHOUT congress/ Because even with a 50-50 split in congress, I don't see legislation passing, considering that Manchin and Sinema are pro filibuster.
I'm a long time gun owner and here is what I think. The background check bill isn't bad except for one part. That mandates background checks for lending a gun to anyone, even a relative. So if you have a hunting rifle that your brother wants to use, and you can't go with him, you have to go to a gun shop and get a background check. I understand the need when it's a sale, but not a loan. There are already ways to take a person's guns---it's called failing a psych evaluation. Taking one's guns and then having to show that you are allowed to get them back isn't due process.


Would you like liability to stay with the gun, then?

From recent events, family and friends are definitely not the best judge on whether someone should have access to a gun. Even if it's just temporary.
The liability is with the shooter. Your last paragraph makes no sense. This shooter's mother tried to get police and the courts to find him ineligible to own guns. The way that the police and prosecutor's office are avoiding answering, it appears that one or the other, or both, f-ed up. The shooter in Colorado's family knew he had mental problems and didn't do anything about it. I'd say the families know better than anyone else if a member has mental problems.
 
JJJ
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:03 pm

johns624 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
johns624 wrote:
I'm a long time gun owner and here is what I think. The background check bill isn't bad except for one part. That mandates background checks for lending a gun to anyone, even a relative. So if you have a hunting rifle that your brother wants to use, and you can't go with him, you have to go to a gun shop and get a background check. I understand the need when it's a sale, but not a loan. There are already ways to take a person's guns---it's called failing a psych evaluation. Taking one's guns and then having to show that you are allowed to get them back isn't due process.


Would you like liability to stay with the gun, then?

From recent events, family and friends are definitely not the best judge on whether someone should have access to a gun. Even if it's just temporary.
The liability is with the shooter. Your last paragraph makes no sense. This shooter's mother tried to get police and the courts to find him ineligible to own guns. The way that the police and prosecutor's office are avoiding answering, it appears that one or the other, or both, f-ed up. The shooter in Colorado's family knew he had mental problems and didn't do anything about it. I'd say the families know better than anyone else if a member has mental problems.


You're making my point. Families and friends aren't consistently making good choices on whether to lend a lethal weapon to an acquaintance.

Carrying liability with the gun is excessive, that's why there should be a mechanism to make sure there's some due diligence.
 
johns624
Posts: 3452
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:09 pm

JJJ wrote:
johns624 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

Would you like liability to stay with the gun, then?

From recent events, family and friends are definitely not the best judge on whether someone should have access to a gun. Even if it's just temporary.
The liability is with the shooter. Your last paragraph makes no sense. This shooter's mother tried to get police and the courts to find him ineligible to own guns. The way that the police and prosecutor's office are avoiding answering, it appears that one or the other, or both, f-ed up. The shooter in Colorado's family knew he had mental problems and didn't do anything about it. I'd say the families know better than anyone else if a member has mental problems.


You're making my point. Families and friends aren't consistently making good choices on whether to lend a lethal weapon to an acquaintance.

Carrying liability with the gun is excessive, that's why there should be a mechanism to make sure there's some due diligence.
And you're missing the point. If the family doesn't start the process, how is society to know that this person has a problem?
 
JJJ
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:04 pm

johns624 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
johns624 wrote:
The liability is with the shooter. Your last paragraph makes no sense. This shooter's mother tried to get police and the courts to find him ineligible to own guns. The way that the police and prosecutor's office are avoiding answering, it appears that one or the other, or both, f-ed up. The shooter in Colorado's family knew he had mental problems and didn't do anything about it. I'd say the families know better than anyone else if a member has mental problems.


You're making my point. Families and friends aren't consistently making good choices on whether to lend a lethal weapon to an acquaintance.

Carrying liability with the gun is excessive, that's why there should be a mechanism to make sure there's some due diligence.
And you're missing the point. If the family doesn't start the process, how is society to know that this person has a problem?


You're putting the cart in front of the horse.

We do know families will not report, or those reports won't be properly heard. You have to count on it because your loved ones can't make a honest neutral judgement on someone they love.

That's why their judgement on whether someone is fit to use a gun is not enough.

What will your car insurance say if you lend your car to a family member that is not legally able to drive? Same principle.
 
johns624
Posts: 3452
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:29 pm

JJJ wrote:
johns624 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

You're making my point. Families and friends aren't consistently making good choices on whether to lend a lethal weapon to an acquaintance.

Carrying liability with the gun is excessive, that's why there should be a mechanism to make sure there's some due diligence.
And you're missing the point. If the family doesn't start the process, how is society to know that this person has a problem?


You're putting the cart in front of the horse.

We do know families will not report, or those reports won't be properly heard. You have to count on it because your loved ones can't make a honest neutral judgement on someone they love.

That's why their judgement on whether someone is fit to use a gun is not enough.

What will your car insurance say if you lend your car to a family member that is not legally able to drive? Same principle.
Then what do you propose? Confiscate guns from tens of millions who use them legally and properly to keep them away from the half dozen a year that use them illegally?
 
wingman
Posts: 4051
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:11 pm

johns624 wrote:
Then what do you propose? Confiscate guns from tens of millions who use them legally and properly to keep them away from the half dozen a year that use them illegally?


Huh? In 2020 over 19,000 Americans were killed in violent gun acts. Are you saying only 6 people did all that? That math is straight trippin.
https://www.businessinsider.com/2020-mo ... des-2021-3
 
johns624
Posts: 3452
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:13 pm

wingman wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Then what do you propose? Confiscate guns from tens of millions who use them legally and properly to keep them away from the half dozen a year that use them illegally?


Huh? In 2020 over 19,000 Americans were killed in violent gun acts. Are you saying only 6 people did all that? That math is straight trippin.
https://www.businessinsider.com/2020-mo ... des-2021-3
No, we're talking mass shootings with rifles here.
 
airtechy
Posts: 808
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:35 am

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:47 pm

The easiest way for me to justify anything that costs more than a small amount of money but has no really necessary benefit is to consider it a toy. That's how I justified three motorcycles (only one needed for transportation) and an airplane (pure pleasure and expensive). But these were "rational" toys. They had immediate benefits for me but didn't hurt anyone else .. actually helped as I paid money for them. Guns to me are "irrational" toys as they have no immediate benefit to me (maybe target practice for some?) and the possible long term benefits far out way the possible long term costs (and consequences). Any rational reading of news and history will show that.

A biker friend of mine owns multiple guns and is usually quite rational about everything (in my opinion of course) except his guns. But once I agreed in my own mind to consider them his "irrational toys", then we can have a decent conversation about them on material things such as whether one stock is better than another. Having a conversation about why his guns might be "rational toys" would just lead into circular arguments, extremely low probability of being beneficial stuff, and conspiracy stuff. After all, who wants to admit that they spent a lot of money on something that is .. in all probability .. basically useless?
 
petertenthije
Posts: 4119
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:56 pm

airtechy wrote:
After all, who wants to admit that they spent a lot of money on something that is .. in all probability .. basically useless?

Because it is something that brings them fun.

Same reason why a sports fisher spends money on equipment, only to put the fish back in the water after taking a selfie.
Same reason why a spotter spends money on cameras and travel just to make airplane photos.
Same reason why a collector spends money on coins or stamps.
Same reason why someone spends big money on a luxury car, when a Dacia will also safely bring you from a to b.
Same reason why gamers spend money on “free-to-play” mobile games.

Just because you don’t understand why someone gets joy from something, does not mean it is useless. (And for the record, i am very happy living in a country where guns are rare).
The first thing to remember is always treat your kite like you treat your woman.
Get inside her five times a day and take her to heaven and back!
Lord Flashheart, 1989
 
johns624
Posts: 3452
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:11 pm

petertenthije wrote:
airtechy wrote:
After all, who wants to admit that they spent a lot of money on something that is .. in all probability .. basically useless?

Because it is something that brings them fun.

Same reason why a sports fisher spends money on equipment, only to put the fish back in the water after taking a selfie.
Same reason why a spotter spends money on cameras and travel just to make airplane photos.
Same reason why a collector spends money on coins or stamps.
Same reason why someone spends big money on a luxury car, when a Dacia will also safely bring you from a to b.
Same reason why gamers spend money on “free-to-play” mobile games.

Just because you don’t understand why someone gets joy from something, does not mean it is useless. (And for the record, i am very happy living in a country where guns are rare).
Very well put! Too many don't know how to look at something from others' viewpoints.
 
airtechy
Posts: 808
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:35 am

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:37 pm

petertenthije wrote:
airtechy wrote:
After all, who wants to admit that they spent a lot of money on something that is .. in all probability .. basically useless?

Because it is something that brings them fun.

Same reason why a sports fisher spends money on equipment, only to put the fish back in the water after taking a selfie.
Same reason why a spotter spends money on cameras and travel just to make airplane photos.
Same reason why a collector spends money on coins or stamps.
Same reason why someone spends big money on a luxury car, when a Dacia will also safely bring you from a to b.
Same reason why gamers spend money on “free-to-play” mobile games.

Just because you don’t understand why someone gets joy from something, does not mean it is useless. (And for the record, i am very happy living in a country where guns are rare).


All the things you described fall in my category of "rational" toys. And to add, I doubt that if their guns were used for their primary and intended purpose it would "bring them fun" and certainly not if they were used for unintended purposes .. including accidents.
 
johns624
Posts: 3452
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:59 pm

airtechy wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
airtechy wrote:
After all, who wants to admit that they spent a lot of money on something that is .. in all probability .. basically useless?

Because it is something that brings them fun.

Same reason why a sports fisher spends money on equipment, only to put the fish back in the water after taking a selfie.
Same reason why a spotter spends money on cameras and travel just to make airplane photos.
Same reason why a collector spends money on coins or stamps.
Same reason why someone spends big money on a luxury car, when a Dacia will also safely bring you from a to b.
Same reason why gamers spend money on “free-to-play” mobile games.

Just because you don’t understand why someone gets joy from something, does not mean it is useless. (And for the record, i am very happy living in a country where guns are rare).


All the things you described fall in my category of "rational" toys. And to add, I doubt that if their guns were used for their primary and intended purpose it would "bring them fun" and certainly not if they were used for unintended purposes .. including accidents.
What do you consider the "primary and intended purpose" of firearms? If you answer "to kill people", you'd be very wrong. I know many people whose primary purpose is hunting and target shooting. I have a .22 LR pistol that is worth over $1500 that is only good for target shooting. I find real enjoyment in shooting it. Have you ever heard of Camp Perry? It's where the national championships are shot. The most common (by far) rifle shot in the matches are AR15's. It is really satisfying to outshoot the professional military shooters. When you consider that there are hundreds of millions of guns in the US, you will see that their "primary and intended purpose" is for the owner's enjoyment.
Just because it's not something you do, or quite understand, doesn't make it wrong. There are plenty of things that other people do that I don't understand, but I let them go about their lives.
 
extender
Posts: 793
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 am

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:55 am

It would seem that the shooter in this case was a couple clowns short of a circus. But lets restrict legal gun ownership for people whose own families will not Red Flag. Do not muscle me in because liberal crazies go on homicidal sprees.
 
JJJ
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:06 pm

johns624 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
johns624 wrote:
And you're missing the point. If the family doesn't start the process, how is society to know that this person has a problem?


You're putting the cart in front of the horse.

We do know families will not report, or those reports won't be properly heard. You have to count on it because your loved ones can't make a honest neutral judgement on someone they love.

That's why their judgement on whether someone is fit to use a gun is not enough.

What will your car insurance say if you lend your car to a family member that is not legally able to drive? Same principle.
Then what do you propose? Confiscate guns from tens of millions who use them legally and properly to keep them away from the half dozen a year that use them illegally?


I propose that you can't transfer a gun (even temporarily) to someone else unless you get a green light from something other than your gut feeling or how much you care for someone.

This is where we're coming from:

I'm a long time gun owner and here is what I think. The background check bill isn't bad except for one part. That mandates background checks for lending a gun to anyone, even a relative. So if you have a hunting rifle that your brother wants to use, and you can't go with him, you have to go to a gun shop and get a background check. I understand the need when it's a sale, but not a loan.
 
extender
Posts: 793
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 am

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:29 pm

JJJ wrote:
I propose that you can't transfer a gun (even temporarily) to someone else unless you get a green light from something other than your gut feeling or how much you care for someone.

This is where we're coming from:

I'm a long time gun owner and here is what I think. The background check bill isn't bad except for one part. That mandates background checks for lending a gun to anyone, even a relative. So if you have a hunting rifle that your brother wants to use, and you can't go with him, you have to go to a gun shop and get a background check. I understand the need when it's a sale, but not a loan.


Property rights must not be a big thing in certain places. I have never loaned anyone a gun, but that is my choice. Asking for permission to do something with my property? Forget it. You are opening yourself up to having to seek permission to go eat at McDonalds or buy a Lexus. Nope.
 
JJJ
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: 8 people killed in shooting at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:37 pm

extender wrote:
JJJ wrote:
I propose that you can't transfer a gun (even temporarily) to someone else unless you get a green light from something other than your gut feeling or how much you care for someone.

This is where we're coming from:

I'm a long time gun owner and here is what I think. The background check bill isn't bad except for one part. That mandates background checks for lending a gun to anyone, even a relative. So if you have a hunting rifle that your brother wants to use, and you can't go with him, you have to go to a gun shop and get a background check. I understand the need when it's a sale, but not a loan.


Property rights must not be a big thing in certain places. I have never loaned anyone a gun, but that is my choice. Asking for permission to do something with my property? Forget it. You are opening yourself up to having to seek permission to go eat at McDonalds or buy a Lexus. Nope.


Have you tried selling someone a dangerous chemical? Tons of requirements for that, and your property rights remain exactly as they are.

For the record if I sell any of my guns to another private individual we have two options. Either we both walk to the nearest police station where all IDs are checked before proceeding (btw, guns here have their own ID which also lists all former owners for traceability) or I can mail it to the police station nearest to the buyer and they'll do their thing.

I presume most western countries operate like this.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Boeing74741R, kalvado and 54 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos