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Bostrom
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Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:53 pm

In a freudian slip, the Chinese ambassador in Sweden admitted in an interview that Taiwan is not part of communist China. https://kinamedia.se/2021/04/29/chinese ... ime-on-tv/
 
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Aesma
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:37 pm

I hope his affairs are in order.
 
luckyone
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:40 pm

Wait for the spin of not part of "communist" China, instead being occupied by an illegitimate government etc etc etc in 3-2-1...
 
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Aesma
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:15 pm

The guy said "journalist someguy isn't a China specialist since he hasn't been to China in 5 years, instead he's in Taiwan". There is no way to spin this.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:31 pm

Aesma wrote:
I hope his affairs are in order.


He best to ask for asylum in Sweden. No more future for him in China.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:44 pm

Having read that interview I really would not return to China, he would disappear quite quickly.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Sat May 01, 2021 3:16 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Having read that interview I really would not return to China, he would disappear quite quickly.


Or at least have his career turn in a very different direction.
 
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c933103
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Sat May 01, 2021 4:07 pm

RIP
 
Cardude2
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:22 am

poor guy, he'll disappear in a week.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:44 am

Dutchy wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I hope his affairs are in order.


He best to ask for asylum in Sweden. No more future for him in China.


You think they can't get to him in Sweden?
 
GDB
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:21 am

On the subject of Taiwan and China, with all the tensions and third parties/allies, a former US Army Lt Col has a view I expect will not go down well with many;

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -all-costs

I note that more recently, after maintaining a minimum force, Chinese strategic posture with nukes is more investment, more survivable SSBN based.
Is it to provide strategic cover against a US threat to escalate, if China WAS prevailing in a conventional war?
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:08 pm

China's Korean War propaganda movie smashes box office record
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/04/business ... index.html

Nothing like stirring up the masses before you .........
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:01 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
China's Korean War propaganda movie smashes box office record
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/04/business ... index.html

Nothing like stirring up the masses before you .........


Is it a propaganda movie more so than an American war film? The Battle of Lake Changjin (Chosin Reservoir) which was a Chinese victory in the Korean War. The whole Chinese Second Phase Offensive caught the US and allied forces off guard, and pushed them out of North Korea. It was the longest US military retreat in history, and the Chinese managed to push the Allies all the way back to the DMZ and the war ended in a bloody stalemate.

If that’s propaganda then I guess there’s a big list of American films that qualify too. The US military has well established links with Hollywood, they allow the use of military equipment in films as long as the script portrays the military in a positive light. Top Gun is the classic example, but you also have films like Act of Valour, which featured active duty US Navy SEALs, Lone Survivor, 12 Strong, American Sniper, Zero Dark Thirty, Captain Phillips, Black Hawk Down, even the Transformer movies and Marvel.

The Chinese film industry has a long way to catch up to the Pentagon/Hollywood military entertainment complex.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:09 pm

GDB wrote:
On the subject of Taiwan and China, with all the tensions and third parties/allies, a former US Army Lt Col has a view I expect will not go down well with many;


Pleas to avoid war at all costs should not be placed in the “will not go down well with many” category.

He’s right, any US China clash would be bloody, costly, devastating to each side and to the wider global economy. It would set off a global depression, a fall in worldwide living standards and numerous wider conflicts. It risks escalating into a nuclear exchange, and we now know that even a small scale tactical nuclear exchange will have long term global climate disruption effects, at the exact time the world needs to be coming together to fight climate change.

It will be the definition of a Pyrrhic Victory, and probably not even a victory for any party. Just a bloody stalemate and devastation all over. Anyone saying it’ll be so easy and quick is in the same category as the “it’ll be over by Christmas” brigade from 1914......
 
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Aesma
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:09 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
China's Korean War propaganda movie smashes box office record
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/04/business ... index.html

Nothing like stirring up the masses before you .........


Is it a propaganda movie more so than an American war film? The Battle of Lake Changjin (Chosin Reservoir) which was a Chinese victory in the Korean War. The whole Chinese Second Phase Offensive caught the US and allied forces off guard, and pushed them out of North Korea. It was the longest US military retreat in history, and the Chinese managed to push the Allies all the way back to the DMZ and the war ended in a bloody stalemate.

If that’s propaganda then I guess there’s a big list of American films that qualify too. The US military has well established links with Hollywood, they allow the use of military equipment in films as long as the script portrays the military in a positive light. Top Gun is the classic example, but you also have films like Act of Valour, which featured active duty US Navy SEALs, Lone Survivor, 12 Strong, American Sniper, Zero Dark Thirty, Captain Phillips, Black Hawk Down, even the Transformer movies and Marvel.

The Chinese film industry has a long way to catch up to the Pentagon/Hollywood military entertainment complex.


I'd say the problem with glorifying that event isn't the event itself, although to be fair I don't know of movies glorifying foreign victories against China, but rather the result. The differences between North Korea and South Korea are staggering. And of course modern China is more similar to the South than to the North.

Do Chinese people even know this ?
 
leader1
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:33 pm

Aesma wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
China's Korean War propaganda movie smashes box office record
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/04/business ... index.html

Nothing like stirring up the masses before you .........


Is it a propaganda movie more so than an American war film? The Battle of Lake Changjin (Chosin Reservoir) which was a Chinese victory in the Korean War. The whole Chinese Second Phase Offensive caught the US and allied forces off guard, and pushed them out of North Korea. It was the longest US military retreat in history, and the Chinese managed to push the Allies all the way back to the DMZ and the war ended in a bloody stalemate.

If that’s propaganda then I guess there’s a big list of American films that qualify too. The US military has well established links with Hollywood, they allow the use of military equipment in films as long as the script portrays the military in a positive light. Top Gun is the classic example, but you also have films like Act of Valour, which featured active duty US Navy SEALs, Lone Survivor, 12 Strong, American Sniper, Zero Dark Thirty, Captain Phillips, Black Hawk Down, even the Transformer movies and Marvel.

The Chinese film industry has a long way to catch up to the Pentagon/Hollywood military entertainment complex.


I'd say the problem with glorifying that event isn't the event itself, although to be fair I don't know of movies glorifying foreign victories against China, but rather the result. The differences between North Korea and South Korea are staggering. And of course modern China is more similar to the South than to the North.

Do Chinese people even know this ?


Do Chinese people know what?

I used to live in South Korea and I've spent a lot of time in the PRC. Tier 1 PRC cities (Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou and Shenzhen) are quite advanced and the standards of living are similarish to what you'd find in Seoul. Although the quality of Korean infrastructure is far better and their services are more reliable. Korean cities are also less polluted and cleaner. Also, Korea doesn't have as wide an income gap (although it's still pretty bad) and Tier 1 cities still have more poor areas than what you'd find in Seoul or Busan. The gap between the two countries widens more from New Tier 1 cities and down.

And South Korean pop culture is quite popular in the PRC and many have traveled to South Korea on business or vacation. Lots of South Korean men also have Chinese wives. So, PRC citizens are aware of the differences between the South and the North. In my experience, Chinese citizens have split views on North Korea. Some support the country because it's a "fellow communist brethren" who stands up to the "evil USA"; others see the country as backwards and are tired of propping it up and want the PRC to move on. I think the former view has been gaining steam more recently due to the CCP's change in direction, but it depends on each person's situation.

My ex-girlfriend's dad was a pretty high ranking CCP official in Wuxi, which is a Tier 2 city close to Shanghai. He went to North Korea several times for government business and was shocked at how poor it was. Even he thought the central government should cut all ties with the country, but he didn't think it would happen due to politics and the direction he thought the CCP was going.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:28 pm

Aesma wrote:

I'd say the problem with glorifying that event isn't the event itself, although to be fair I don't know of movies glorifying foreign victories against China, but rather the result. The differences between North Korea and South Korea are staggering. And of course modern China is more similar to the South than to the North.

Do Chinese people even know this ?


Did you watch American Sniper? It was very strongly implied that Iraq was behind the WTC attacks, and therefore justification for Chris Kyle shooting Iraqi women and children in the head. It was later revealed a lot of Kyle’s book was just fabricated lies. In real life he was a psychopath who loved shooting people in Iraq, he wished he could’ve killed more, as opposed to the sort of conflicted hesitant character he was portrayed as in the film who is wracked by guilt.

This is how some Americans reacted upon seeing the movie:

“Nice to see a movie where the Arabs are portrayed for who they really are - vermin scum intent on destroying us.”

“American Sniper’ made me appreciate soldiers 100x more and hate Muslims 1000000x more,” wrote another.

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ra ... nd-muslims

Or what about “12 Strong”? If you watch that film about the first few weeks of the Afghan war you’d come out thinking the American Special Forces managed to unite all the differing Afghan factions to defeat the Taliban and bring freedom and democracy to the country. Wrong!

Or what about Mel Gibson’s “The Patriot”? Depicting the British as sadistic church burning child killing monsters (totally fabricated), whereas the Americans were peaceful gentle folk who respected rules of war (in reality the film’s hero was a slave owner who raped his slaves).

This even extends into the most unlikely of films, Pitch Perfect 3. A movie pitched at teenage girls about a young women’s acapella singing group is twisted with US military intervention to become basically a US military recruiting film targeting young women:

https://caityjohnstone.medium.com/i-pai ... 6f510081d6

And the reality of Chinese intervention in Korea wasn’t so much the Chinese fighting to ensure that North Korea remained under communism. It was because the Allied forces had broken above the agreed 38th Parallel and were almost at the Yalu River border with China, with no hint of stopping. People like Douglas MacArthur had been talking about invading China and occupying Beijing, or using nuclear bombs in China to irradiate the ground and cut China off from Korea. It was more of self preservation for themselves.

War propaganda movies aren’t new, but the Chinese film industry has a long way to go before they reach the level of pro US military propaganda put out by Hollywood.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:13 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
GDB wrote:
On the subject of Taiwan and China, with all the tensions and third parties/allies, a former US Army Lt Col has a view I expect will not go down well with many;


Pleas to avoid war at all costs should not be placed in the “will not go down well with many” category.

He’s right, any US China clash would be bloody, costly, devastating to each side and to the wider global economy. It would set off a global depression, a fall in worldwide living standards and numerous wider conflicts. It risks escalating into a nuclear exchange, and we now know that even a small scale tactical nuclear exchange will have long term global climate disruption effects, at the exact time the world needs to be coming together to fight climate change.

It will be the definition of a Pyrrhic Victory, and probably not even a victory for any party. Just a bloody stalemate and devastation all over. Anyone saying it’ll be so easy and quick is in the same category as the “it’ll be over by Christmas” brigade from 1914......


The march towards war is on, the recent announcement of Australia getting nuclear power subs is indicative of it, Australia really doesn't need nuclear subs, the reasoning behind it I find flawed.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:07 am

Kiwirob wrote:
The march towards war is on, the recent announcement of Australia getting nuclear power subs is indicative of it, Australia really doesn't need nuclear subs, the reasoning behind it I find flawed.


This exact situation was predicted in this comedy show from several years ago:

We’re spending close to $30 billion a year to protect our trade with China… from China?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MTCqXlDjx18
 
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c933103
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:46 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
Is it a propaganda movie more so than an American war film? The Battle of Lake Changjin (Chosin Reservoir) which was a Chinese victory in the Korean War. The whole Chinese Second Phase Offensive caught the US and allied forces off guard, and pushed them out of North Korea. It was the longest US military retreat in history, and the Chinese managed to push the Allies all the way back to the DMZ and the war ended in a bloody stalemate.

If that’s propaganda then I guess there’s a big list of American films that qualify too. The US military has well established links with Hollywood, they allow the use of military equipment in films as long as the script portrays the military in a positive light. Top Gun is the classic example, but you also have films like Act of Valour, which featured active duty US Navy SEALs, Lone Survivor, 12 Strong, American Sniper, Zero Dark Thirty, Captain Phillips, Black Hawk Down, even the Transformer movies and Marvel.

The Chinese film industry has a long way to catch up to the Pentagon/Hollywood military entertainment complex.

The movie isn't being branded as a "propaganda movie" simply because of the setting it picked.
Citing a section of review of the movie from Chinese government official media,

The film begins with a concise and vivid plot, telling the audience that the War to Resist US Aggression and Aid Korea is a war of just against aggression, and is a war of just to defend our home and our country. The company commander Wu Qianli, who was on vacation at home, returned to the team immediately after receiving the order. The demobilized instructor Mei Sheng ride a long way to finally reunite with the team assembled to the north. The leader's son Mao Anying determined to go to the frontline of the battlefield... in order to defend our home and our country, and to defend peace, Chinese soldiers have no choice but to shed blood and sacrifice. In the film, the picturesque land of fish and rice in Huzhou, Zhejiang, and the breathtaking and majestic Great Wall are in sharp contrast with the border city of Andong, which was under indiscriminatory bombing by US military planes. We must not let the flames of war hit our motherland, we must not let our enemy take away our land, and we cannot let our enemy deprive the hard-won fruits of victory. The film uses Mei Sheng’s words to express the voice of the Chinese People’s Volunteers: “If we don’t fight this battle, it will be our next generation who will need to fight."
 
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c933103
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:48 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
GDB wrote:
On the subject of Taiwan and China, with all the tensions and third parties/allies, a former US Army Lt Col has a view I expect will not go down well with many;


Pleas to avoid war at all costs should not be placed in the “will not go down well with many” category.

He’s right, any US China clash would be bloody, costly, devastating to each side and to the wider global economy. It would set off a global depression, a fall in worldwide living standards and numerous wider conflicts. It risks escalating into a nuclear exchange, and we now know that even a small scale tactical nuclear exchange will have long term global climate disruption effects, at the exact time the world needs to be coming together to fight climate change.

It will be the definition of a Pyrrhic Victory, and probably not even a victory for any party. Just a bloody stalemate and devastation all over. Anyone saying it’ll be so easy and quick is in the same category as the “it’ll be over by Christmas” brigade from 1914......

Does "Pleas to avoid war at all costs" includes pleading not to fight and not to resist even after invasion have started, so that war will not happen?
 
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c933103
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:59 am

Aesma wrote:

I'd say the problem with glorifying that event isn't the event itself, although to be fair I don't know of movies glorifying foreign victories against China, but rather the result. The differences between North Korea and South Korea are staggering. And of course modern China is more similar to the South than to the North.

Do Chinese people even know this ?

I would say most people in China are aware of the poor situation in North Korea. Some have different opinion based on their ideology, like given how China is currently a rather capitalistic authoritarian country from communist point of view, some of those who have great faith in the idea of communism believe the North Korea is a model that China should follow, and that negative presses against North Korea are mostly propaganda. But such sort of people are still very few.

However, despite this, quite a number of people in China, especially those with more nationalism ideology, still think it is worth for Chinese government to militarily invest into protecting North Korea, because North Korea can act as a buffer zone, preventing American troops from stationing right next to Chinese border, and as a result provide more sense of security to China and make it harder for the US to invade China, if any such war is going to occurs.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:15 am

c933103 wrote:
The movie isn't being branded as a "propaganda movie" simply because of the setting it picked.
Citing a section of review of the movie from Chinese government official media,

The film begins with a concise and vivid plot, telling the audience that the War to Resist US Aggression and Aid Korea is a war of just against aggression, and is a war of just to defend our home and our country. The company commander Wu Qianli, who was on vacation at home, returned to the team immediately after receiving the order. The demobilized instructor Mei Sheng ride a long way to finally reunite with the team assembled to the north. The leader's son Mao Anying determined to go to the frontline of the battlefield... in order to defend our home and our country, and to defend peace, Chinese soldiers have no choice but to shed blood and sacrifice. In the film, the picturesque land of fish and rice in Huzhou, Zhejiang, and the breathtaking and majestic Great Wall are in sharp contrast with the border city of Andong, which was under indiscriminatory bombing by US military planes. We must not let the flames of war hit our motherland, we must not let our enemy take away our land, and we cannot let our enemy deprive the hard-won fruits of victory. The film uses Mei Sheng’s words to express the voice of the Chinese People’s Volunteers: “If we don’t fight this battle, it will be our next generation who will need to fight."


The review is heavy handed, Hollywood is a touch more subtle but the intent is still there. The US military pays Hollywood to produce films to glorify it's troops and boost recruiting numbers, not caring if history is totally rewritten in the process. Enemies are portrayed as indiscriminate armies of zombies to be gunned down en masse disregarding any complexities of war. "Our" troops are heroic and always fight with valor for just causes.

But is anything in that review incorrect? The Chinese troops in The Battle of Lake Changjin actually did have some credence to say they were defending their homeland, the battle took place about 100kms from Chinese territory, where US troops had advanced far in excess of the 38th parallel, and people in America were openly talking about a Chinese invasion using nukes if necessary. A little bit different to Chris Kyle shooting Iraqis in the head in a nation that had never threatened the US whilst the movie tried to pass them off as having caused 9/11

If you want to look at blatant nationalistic propaganda in a war movie this takes the cake:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCE8jHLJe3g
 
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Aesma
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:35 am

leader1 wrote:
And South Korean pop culture is quite popular in the PRC and many have traveled to South Korea on business or vacation. Lots of South Korean men also have Chinese wives. So, PRC citizens are aware of the differences between the South and the North. In my experience, Chinese citizens have split views on North Korea. Some support the country because it's a "fellow communist brethren" who stands up to the "evil USA"; others see the country as backwards and are tired of propping it up and want the PRC to move on. I think the former view has been gaining steam more recently due to the CCP's change in direction, but it depends on each person's situation.

My ex-girlfriend's dad was a pretty high ranking CCP official in Wuxi, which is a Tier 2 city close to Shanghai. He went to North Korea several times for government business and was shocked at how poor it was. Even he thought the central government should cut all ties with the country, but he didn't think it would happen due to politics and the direction he thought the CCP was going.


Thanks for the insight.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:11 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
The march towards war is on, the recent announcement of Australia getting nuclear power subs is indicative of it, Australia really doesn't need nuclear subs, the reasoning behind it I find flawed.


This exact situation was predicted in this comedy show from several years ago:

We’re spending close to $30 billion a year to protect our trade with China… from China?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MTCqXlDjx18


I know I was banned from another forum for saying exactly that, its ridiculous building nuclear subs to protect Australia's sea lanes from the country which provides over 40% of Australia's trade.
 
Cerecl
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:53 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
I know I was banned from another forum for saying exactly that, its ridiculous building nuclear subs to protect Australia's sea lanes from the country which provides over 40% of Australia's trade.

There is an almost craze-like anti-China sentiment in Australia at the moment. Even non-Murdoch media publishes negative stories about China almost daily. Several editors of a masthead that I read regularly essentially do nothing else but pump out one article after another about how China is a threat to Oz and how Australia needs nuclear subs so that it can get into a war with China. One of them went so far today to criticise the new Bond movie for not including contents portraying China as an enemy/antagonist. I don't agree with some directions China seems to be heading over the recent years but the current warmongering by usually articulate and intelligent people in Australia is extremely worrying. It has gone way beyond politicians playing up an external threat to win elections.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:02 pm

Cerecl wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
I know I was banned from another forum for saying exactly that, its ridiculous building nuclear subs to protect Australia's sea lanes from the country which provides over 40% of Australia's trade.

There is an almost craze-like anti-China sentiment in Australia at the moment. Even non-Murdoch media publishes negative stories about China almost daily. Several editors of a masthead that I read regularly essentially do nothing else but pump out one article after another about how China is a threat to Oz and how Australia needs nuclear subs so that it can get into a war with China. One of them went so far today to criticise the new Bond movie for not including contents portraying China as an enemy/antagonist. I don't agree with some directions China seems to be heading over the recent years but the current warmongering by usually articulate and intelligent people in Australia is extremely worrying. It has gone way beyond politicians playing up an external threat to win elections.


Does China deserve any better? The regime is duplicitous and untrustworthy. They are a tyrannical dictatorship and a threat to all global freedoms everywhere. They will try to “mitigate” speech and business issues by directly trying to control Western governments. This will get more and more powerful.

The regime sees us all as vassals. Certainly, they see Australia as nothing but a vassal state that should be owned by China. That is the long term plan. You can either deal with it now, or deal with it later when they are ready to complete that.

Same for Mark Zuckerberg. He got all this positive press. Why on earth did he get years of positive press? He was a villain from day one.
 
johns624
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:52 pm

I don't understand all the angst about "nuclear" subs. It's just another form (and much more efficient) of propulsion. If we were talking about SSBNs equipped with nuclear ballistic missiles, I could understand it. They are superior for Australia if for no other reason than Australia is such a large land mass and only has one submarine base.
 
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SQ22
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:16 pm

Please keep this thread on topic or it will be locked, thanks.
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:49 pm

President Xi Jinping proposes "reunification" with Taiwan:

China's Xi vows 'reunification' with Taiwan

Source: Reuters via YouTube
 
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Tugger
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Re: Chinese official admits that Taiwan is an independent country

Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:38 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
President Xi Jinping proposes "reunification" with Taiwan:

China's Xi vows 'reunification' with Taiwan

Source: Reuters via YouTube

Seems more than "proposes". Vows, insists, demands.

And after the HK experience, I don't see it happening willingly.

Taiwan will potentially be China's downfall. I see Xi getting more thoughtless or uncaring of consequences while needing to force his desires on the nation, which he sees as "his" nation or he will appear weak and lose power if he doesn't. And Xi loves his power.

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