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Elkadad313
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Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:18 pm

Studies find the odds of guns appearing in violent movie/TV scenes and real-life killings involving young people in the United States has skyrocketed by more than 80 percent over the past two decades. Much like the uptick in cigarette smoking due to their use in entertainment, scientists believe the same thing is now happening with guns.

‘Compared to other forms of violence, Hollywood filmmakers are increasingly turning to guns to keep audiences entertained and spice up action sequences.’

What if Hollywood started 1) depicting users of illicit drugs as weak and stupid, and not subjects deserving (usually) tolerance/sympathy; and 2) portraying street gangs and their violent gun-laden drug wars in a negative light and act accordingly?

I suppose that would result in a ratings drop and woke accusations of racism. But perhaps if Hollywood regardless enacted some ‘tough love’ towards this in its scripts and culture, most impressionable young people would begin to view gun culture is a negative light.

It's an unlikely fantasy but something needs to be done. Throwing more money at this will, as usual, not be effective.

https://www.studyfinds.org/shootings-ri ... newsletter
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:54 pm

Elkadad313 wrote:
Studies find the odds of guns appearing in violent movie/TV scenes and real-life killings involving young people in the United States has skyrocketed by more than 80 percent over the past two decades. Much like the uptick in cigarette smoking due to their use in entertainment, scientists believe the same thing is now happening with guns.

‘Compared to other forms of violence, Hollywood filmmakers are increasingly turning to guns to keep audiences entertained and spice up action sequences.’

What if Hollywood started 1) depicting users of illicit drugs as weak and stupid, and not subjects deserving (usually) tolerance/sympathy; and 2) portraying street gangs and their violent gun-laden drug wars in a negative light and act accordingly?

I suppose that would result in a ratings drop and woke accusations of racism. But perhaps if Hollywood regardless enacted some ‘tough love’ towards this in its scripts and culture, most impressionable young people would begin to view gun culture is a negative light.

It's an unlikely fantasy but something needs to be done. Throwing more money at this will, as usual, not be effective.

https://www.studyfinds.org/shootings-ri ... newsletter


Seen ‘Narcos’ or ‘Narcos Mexico’? ‘Breaking Bad’? ‘Fargo’? ‘Sopranos’?? The top quality shows literally exist to cast drug wars, violence, and immorality in a negative light. Not all Hollywood content is mindless shoot ‘em up for teenagers.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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c933103
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:10 pm

As Hollywood movies are being consumed globally, if such correlation exists, it must be causing a rise in gunshooting incidents globally?
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Elkadad313
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:24 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Seen ‘Narcos’ or ‘Narcos Mexico’? ‘Breaking Bad’? ‘Fargo’? ‘Sopranos’?? The top quality shows literally exist to cast drug wars, violence, and immorality in a negative light. Not all Hollywood content is mindless shoot ‘em up for teenagers.

I need to see more movies, then. What about TV?

c933103 wrote:
As Hollywood movies are being consumed globally, if such correlation exists, it must be causing a rise in gunshooting incidents globally?

Most foreigners are not as gullible as American youth.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:28 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Seen ‘Narcos’ or ‘Narcos Mexico’? ‘Breaking Bad’? ‘Fargo’? ‘Sopranos’?? The top quality shows literally exist to cast drug wars, violence, and immorality in a negative light. Not all Hollywood content is mindless shoot ‘em up for teenagers.

I need to see more movies, then. What about TV?


Is that a ‘no’ - you have not seen any of the above shows?
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Newark727
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:40 am

It's one link in a long chain. And, just like the guns you'll insist aren't part of the problem, it's protected by a constitutional amendment.
 
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c933103
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:42 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
As Hollywood movies are being consumed globally, if such correlation exists, it must be causing a rise in gunshooting incidents globally?

Most foreigners are not as gullible as American youth.

Why is that you think?
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seb146
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:54 am

Why are there no mass shootings in other nations that consume American content? Australia, Japan, Switzerland, Iceland, Canada?
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Elkadad313
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:22 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Seen ‘Narcos’ or ‘Narcos Mexico’? ‘Breaking Bad’? ‘Fargo’? ‘Sopranos’?? The top quality shows literally exist to cast drug wars, violence, and immorality in a negative light. Not all Hollywood content is mindless shoot ‘em up for teenagers.

I need to see more movies, then. What about TV?


Is that a ‘no’ - you have not seen any of the above shows?

It is a no. I have better ways of being entertained. What about gun violence on TV?
 
Elkadad313
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:26 am

c933103 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
As Hollywood movies are being consumed globally, if such correlation exists, it must be causing a rise in gunshooting incidents globally?

Most foreigners are not as gullible as American youth.

Why is that you think?

See reply to Seb below.

seb146 wrote:
Why are there no mass shootings in other nations that consume American content? Australia, Japan, Switzerland, Iceland, Canada?

As previously stated, for the most part foreigners are more intelligent, i.e., less gullible, then the products of the American education system.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:34 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
I need to see more movies, then. What about TV?


Is that a ‘no’ - you have not seen any of the above shows?

It is a no. I have better ways of being entertained. What about gun violence on TV?


That wasn't the question. You haven't seen them - so you can't really speak to the range of content produced by Hollywood or what it says/doesn't say about violence.
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Elkadad313
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:39 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Is that a ‘no’ - you have not seen any of the above shows?

It is a no. I have better ways of being entertained. What about gun violence on TV?


That wasn't the question. You haven't seen them - so you can't really speak to the range of content produced by Hollywood or what it says/doesn't say about violence.

How many definitions does 'no' have? The link I provided was for a study where scientists say there is a connection. Apparently not with all movies, but a connection nonetheless.
 
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c933103
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:43 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:

Most foreigners are not as gullible as American youth.

Why is that you think?

See reply to Seb below.

seb146 wrote:
Why are there no mass shootings in other nations that consume American content? Australia, Japan, Switzerland, Iceland, Canada?

As previously stated, for the most part foreigners are more intelligent, i.e., less gullible, then the products of the American education system.

Assuming your idea is true, wouldn't that mean the problem lies in American education system instead of Hollywood media?
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Newark727
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:45 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:

Most foreigners are not as gullible as American youth.

Why is that you think?

See reply to Seb below.

seb146 wrote:
Why are there no mass shootings in other nations that consume American content? Australia, Japan, Switzerland, Iceland, Canada?

As previously stated, for the most part foreigners are more intelligent, i.e., less gullible, then the products of the American education system.


Well if that was your problem, you should have just said so!
 
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:52 am

c933103 wrote:
Assuming your idea is true, wouldn't that mean the problem lies in American education system instead of Hollywood media?


It's a cop out

American kid watches violent TV, gets involved in gun violence.

European kid watches the same show, but doesn't Get involved in gun violence


Could it have something to do with the fact that the American kid can save up a few hundred bucks and go buy a gun? Legally or illegally. Does it have something to do with dad having a closet full of enough firepower to take down an African warlord?

Nahhhh it's that damned new math they're teaching the kids!
 
Newark727
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:57 am

Also, allow me to play the world's smallest violin for the guy who apparently thinks his media ought to be portraying drug addicts more negatively? Can't have anyone thinking of those junkies as people...
 
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:31 am

If it was a problem with the guns, the problem would be widespread across the countries where violent video games and movies are popular. Quite easy to pinpoint what the problem is, and possible solutions have been proposed, but we might as well be shouting at a squirrel, would probably have more of an effect.
 
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:40 am

c933103 wrote:
As Hollywood movies are being consumed globally, if such correlation exists, it must be causing a rise in gunshooting incidents globally?


Most of the rest of the world doesn't have such easy access to guns.
 
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:43 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Why are there no mass shootings in other nations that consume American content? Australia, Japan, Switzerland, Iceland, Canada?

As previously stated, for the most part foreigners are more intelligent, i.e., less gullible, then the products of the American education system.


mm... no, they are not. They cover just about the same range on all of the above.

FGITD wrote:
Could it have something to do with the fact that the American kid can save up a few hundred bucks and go buy a gun? Legally or illegally.


that is the case in most places if you allow for illegally. An AK here would set you back ~500 EUR, which will also you get you dozen of live hand granades if you want them. You could turn a profit buying that stuff here and reselling it in Afghanistan.

Does it have something to do with dad having a closet full of enough firepower to take down an African warlord?

Nahhhh it's that damned new math they're teaching the kids!


yup, gun culture.

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tommy1808
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:50 am

Virtual737 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
As Hollywood movies are being consumed globally, if such correlation exists, it must be causing a rise in gunshooting incidents globally?


Most of the rest of the world doesn't have such easy access to guns.


but some places do, and if it was movies and TV they would have the same problem.

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Thomas
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Virtual737
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:52 am

tommy1808 wrote:
but some places do, and if it was movies and TV they would have the same problem.


I'm not saying it's the only reason, but it's difficult to shoot someone dead without a gun.

At the end of the day, much of the US is deaf to any kind of talk about gun culture, so it's a fruitless task to even discuss it with any hope of even acknowledgement, let alone change.
 
Newark727
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:53 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Assuming your idea is true, wouldn't that mean the problem lies in American education system instead of Hollywood media?

Bingo! See post no. 10


I see! We'd better get to work then. It's been proven that kids learn better on a full stomach, so we need to expand the guaranteed school lunch program and funding for TANF. If our children are being too influenced by violent video games and movies, we clearly need much more instruction on both empathy and critical thinking - even if that leads students to question established ideas on history and culture among their parents. If we want long term successful schooling we need to retain talent a lot better among teachers, so we also need to pay them a lot more. Parents are so scared of school shootings that some are sending their kids with Kevlar plates in their backpacks - that climate of fear obviously rubs off on the children and is terrible for a good learning environment. Maybe we need some nationwide policies to make such attacks less widespread and fatal - mass buy-backs of guns would be a good thing to start with, but in the long run we need to stop selling so many weapons in the first place.

....not where you were going with that, huh? ;)
 
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:07 am

FGITD wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Assuming your idea is true, wouldn't that mean the problem lies in American education system instead of Hollywood media?


It's a cop out

American kid watches violent TV, gets involved in gun violence.

European kid watches the same show, but doesn't Get involved in gun violence


Could it have something to do with the fact that the American kid can save up a few hundred bucks and go buy a gun? Legally or illegally. Does it have something to do with dad having a closet full of enough firepower to take down an African warlord?

Nahhhh it's that damned new math they're teaching the kids!


Nailed it, the thread starter seems to think only the US has TV and films, (well gun advocates are rarely well informed), better yet has not even seen what he is blaming.
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:02 am

c933103 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Why is that you think?

See reply to Seb below.

seb146 wrote:
Why are there no mass shootings in other nations that consume American content? Australia, Japan, Switzerland, Iceland, Canada?

As previously stated, for the most part foreigners are more intelligent, i.e., less gullible, then the products of the American education system.

Assuming your idea is true, wouldn't that mean the problem lies in American education system instead of Hollywood media?


Airsoft is experiencing a global boom, which is the next best thing if you can't access real guns without too much hassle.

I personally blame FPS games as well as military worship. Back when I used to live in the US and shot at different ranges I experienced my share of cringe at the tacticool camo underwear crowd.

At least over here they just don't bother to jump the hoops needed to get a real gun for the most part.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:24 pm

But this was not an issues in 50s and 60s with Westerns?

Or violent films of 70s and 80s?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:38 pm

What a bunk study.

They ONLY STUDIED 2000-2018. Did they forget about Robocop 80's, Predator? Dirty harry? Magnificent 7? Airwolf? A-Team?

And look at their show choices.

"The researchers analyzed 33 popular TV dramas between 2000 and 2018, which had either law enforcement, medical, or legal plot lines. These included “CSI: Crime Scene Investigation,” “NCIS,” “How to Get Away with Murder,” “The Good Wife,” “JAG,” “Grey’s Anatomy,” and “ER.”"


Have to say. This is the most bunk study I have ever seen. Choice shows, and lacking the context that the number of gun sales is more strongly correlated with the incidents of gun violence.
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:57 pm

Elkadad313 wrote:
Studies find the odds of guns appearing in violent movie/TV scenes and real-life killings involving young people in the United States has skyrocketed by more than 80 percent over the past two decades. Much like the uptick in cigarette smoking due to their use in entertainment, scientists believe the same thing is now happening with guns.

‘Compared to other forms of violence, Hollywood filmmakers are increasingly turning to guns to keep audiences entertained and spice up action sequences.’

What if Hollywood started 1) depicting users of illicit drugs as weak and stupid, and not subjects deserving (usually) tolerance/sympathy; and 2) portraying street gangs and their violent gun-laden drug wars in a negative light and act accordingly?

I suppose that would result in a ratings drop and woke accusations of racism. But perhaps if Hollywood regardless enacted some ‘tough love’ towards this in its scripts and culture, most impressionable young people would begin to view gun culture is a negative light.

It's an unlikely fantasy but something needs to be done. Throwing more money at this will, as usual, not be effective.

https://www.studyfinds.org/shootings-ri ... newsletter


Watch Bowling for Columbine. This argument comes up every time there is a mass shooting and it has no merit that any of these things cause violent tendencies.

I live in Canada and can watch all of the same shows and movies as any American can. I can buy the same video games and grew up with first person shooter video games. None of this created violent tendencies. So can someone in Australia/NZ and in Europe

It's the guns and the easy access to them that is the problem in the US. The (I will say willful) denial of this is why there is little progress on gun laws in the US.
While some cultural factors contribute to perhaps a greater incidence in the US even if there was strict gun laws they are minor compared to the easy access to guns.

casinterest wrote:
What a bunk study.

They ONLY STUDIED 2000-2018. Did they forget about Robocop 80's, Predator? Dirty harry? Magnificent 7? Airwolf? A-Team?

And look at their show choices.

"The researchers analyzed 33 popular TV dramas between 2000 and 2018, which had either law enforcement, medical, or legal plot lines. These included “CSI: Crime Scene Investigation,” “NCIS,” “How to Get Away with Murder,” “The Good Wife,” “JAG,” “Grey’s Anatomy,” and “ER.”"


Have to say. This is the most bunk study I have ever seen. Choice shows, and lacking the context that the number of gun sales is more strongly correlated with the incidents of gun violence.


All TV shows and movies that can be easily watched outside of the United States also.

Its the easy access to guns.
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BlueberryWheats
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:26 pm

I regularly have a go on Grand Theft Auto, I'm a big fan of the series. However, I've never even had a slight inclination to go stealing cars, shooting up prostitutes, going on a police chase, etc etc.
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:02 pm

This was the excuse back in the mid 80s.
Then it shifted to heavy metal music.
Then it shifted to video games.
Then it shifted to rap music.

And so on and so forth.
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seb146
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:52 pm

What is the excuse for gun violence in Brazil or Iraq or Afghanistan? American movies and TV shows?
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Elkadad313
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 01, 2021 1:44 am

seb146 wrote:
What is the excuse for gun violence in Brazil or Iraq or Afghanistan? American movies and TV shows?

Gun-related violence in most parts of the world is due to poverty, politics and/or religion. I never implied otherwise.
 
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seb146
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 01, 2021 3:15 pm

Elkadad313 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
What is the excuse for gun violence in Brazil or Iraq or Afghanistan? American movies and TV shows?

Gun-related violence in most parts of the world is due to poverty, politics and/or religion. I never implied otherwise.


The topic of the thread is.....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
ltbewr
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 01, 2021 3:41 pm

Violent gun uses depicted in far too many movies and TV shows don't show how much a human body is destroyed by them. There is the almost cartoonist ways gun violence is shown, no terrible wounds, no guts hanging out, no remorse by the shooter, too often the shooter never gets shot themselves, tends to be 'justified' if done by a 'good guy' or cop. Here are some (gruesome - NSFW) pictures of gunshot wounds:
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=bo ... HoverTitle
 
Elkadad313
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 01, 2021 4:56 pm

;)
seb146 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
What is the excuse for gun violence in Brazil or Iraq or Afghanistan? American movies and TV shows?

Gun-related violence in most parts of the world is due to poverty, politics and/or religion. I never implied otherwise.


The topic of the thread is.....

It is 'Strong correlation between movies/TV gun violence and today's gun culture.' ;)
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 01, 2021 6:20 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
If it was a problem with the guns, the problem would be widespread across the countries where violent video games and movies are popular. Quite easy to pinpoint what the problem is, and possible solutions have been proposed, but we might as well be shouting at a squirrel, would probably have more of an effect.


In any group of 100 boys (who all play Grand Theft Auto), at least 10 of them would be willing to jack cars. If there is no father or police officer to stop them, they WILL do it.
 
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c933103
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 01, 2021 6:35 pm

JJJ wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
See reply to Seb below.


As previously stated, for the most part foreigners are more intelligent, i.e., less gullible, then the products of the American education system.

Assuming your idea is true, wouldn't that mean the problem lies in American education system instead of Hollywood media?


Airsoft is experiencing a global boom, which is the next best thing if you can't access real guns without too much hassle.

I personally blame FPS games as well as military worship. Back when I used to live in the US and shot at different ranges I experienced my share of cringe at the tacticool camo underwear crowd.

At least over here they just don't bother to jump the hoops needed to get a real gun for the most part.

That does not lead to killing people
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c933103
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 01, 2021 6:37 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
If it was a problem with the guns, the problem would be widespread across the countries where violent video games and movies are popular. Quite easy to pinpoint what the problem is, and possible solutions have been proposed, but we might as well be shouting at a squirrel, would probably have more of an effect.


In any group of 100 boys (who all play Grand Theft Auto), at least 10 of them would be willing to jack cars. If there is no father or police officer to stop them, they WILL do it.

Are you sure that (who all olay GTA) bracket is a meaningful condition, that adding the clause would change the number?
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LCDFlight
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 01, 2021 6:59 pm

c933103 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
If it was a problem with the guns, the problem would be widespread across the countries where violent video games and movies are popular. Quite easy to pinpoint what the problem is, and possible solutions have been proposed, but we might as well be shouting at a squirrel, would probably have more of an effect.


In any group of 100 boys (who all play Grand Theft Auto), at least 10 of them would be willing to jack cars. If there is no father or police officer to stop them, they WILL do it.

Are you sure that (who all olay GTA) bracket is a meaningful condition, that adding the clause would change the number?


Yeah I think it is meaningful. The realism of these games has never been done before. Every boy in the city has carjacking experience. Every boy wants a car.

I know what boys are into, because I was one. When I see kids jacking cars and driving 120mph, getting in wrecks, I totally get it. I understand it like a master plumber understands a toilet.

The solution is fathers teaching their sons, or if not, then vigorous police enforcement with very long term imprisonments.
 
Elkadad313
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 01, 2021 7:55 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
The solution is fathers teaching their sons, or if not, then vigorous police enforcement with very long term imprisonments.

The real solution is more massive funding, more feel-good idealistic programs. :roll:
 
meecrob
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 01, 2021 8:34 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
The realism of these games has never been done before. Every boy in the city has carjacking experience.


What are you smoking? GTA teaches you to run up to a car and press the "f" key. Or is that how you steal car where you are from?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 01, 2021 9:51 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
If it was a problem with the guns, the problem would be widespread across the countries where violent video games and movies are popular. Quite easy to pinpoint what the problem is, and possible solutions have been proposed, but we might as well be shouting at a squirrel, would probably have more of an effect.


In any group of 100 boys (who all play Grand Theft Auto), at least 10 of them would be willing to jack cars. If there is no father or police officer to stop them, they WILL do it.


Putting the lack of any data or citation aside, in my community of 30K as a teen in the 90s, deathmatch was the thing. We would spend hours killing each other, till the wee hours of the night. Later in college it was setting up six PCs in a garage for CounterStrike. There were 212 males in my graduating class of HS - not a single one has ever been implicated in a shooting (or carjacking). There were plenty of absent fathers in my community - the drug use and weekend parties in the palace homes in the hills were testament to that. But why no rampant violence? No poverty. Of those 212 males, more than 100 ended up going to tier 1 universities, according to my yearbook.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 01, 2021 9:56 pm

Elkadad313 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
The solution is fathers teaching their sons, or if not, then vigorous police enforcement with very long term imprisonments.

The real solution is more massive funding, more feel-good idealistic programs. :roll:


Nobody serious claims those are solutions. Carefully targeted programs for mental health support and positive employment are solutions though. Also investment in school infrastructure. People growing up in poverty don’t need to be reminded in school - the place that seeds opportunity - that their lives mean less than others. If you think broken heating and windows aren’t demoralizing, might be good to audit psych 101.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Elkadad313
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sun May 02, 2021 1:08 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
The solution is fathers teaching their sons, or if not, then vigorous police enforcement with very long term imprisonments.

The real solution is more massive funding, more feel-good idealistic programs. :roll:


Nobody serious claims those are solutions. Carefully targeted programs for mental health support and positive employment are solutions though. Also investment in school infrastructure. People growing up in poverty don’t need to be reminded in school - the place that seeds opportunity - that their lives mean less than others. If you think broken heating and windows aren’t demoralizing, might be good to audit psych 101.

How many carefully targeted programs for mental health support and positive employment, which for the most part fail, will it take to admit what is already realized -- poor mental health cannot be avoided. Dealt with more effectively? Absolutely. But an air-tight solution to dealing with this, as has been pointed out repeatedly, is virtually impossible. It could be mitigated significantly, but, again, as has been pointed out repeatedly, the first and primary line of defense lies with family and friends. Until this root cause is somehow resolved, we will have a 'that horse has already left the barn' situation.

A community may be poor, but priority of its schools should take precedence. Unfortunately, even with county/state (and soon, federal) governments providing funding, it is primarily still the local community's obligation to provide resolution. When people don't invest their own sweat into something, when something is given to them, human nature tends to cause them to not respect (and care for) it.

There is a common thread here. Most people know what is at the ends, but, like social security, it's another political third rail.
 
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seb146
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sun May 02, 2021 2:22 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
;)
seb146 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Gun-related violence in most parts of the world is due to poverty, politics and/or religion. I never implied otherwise.


The topic of the thread is.....

It is 'Strong correlation between movies/TV gun violence and today's gun culture.' ;)


Right. There are violent video games and violent movies in EU and Japan and Canada yet they have no mass shootings.

The purchase of alcohol is higher over the past year and infection rates for the flu are down so greater alcohol consumption prevents flu.
Sports injuries are down over the past year and online shopping is up so sports injuries cause online shopping.

Anyone can find a correlation between two unrelated topics.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sun May 02, 2021 2:38 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
The real solution is more massive funding, more feel-good idealistic programs. :roll:


Nobody serious claims those are solutions. Carefully targeted programs for mental health support and positive employment are solutions though. Also investment in school infrastructure. People growing up in poverty don’t need to be reminded in school - the place that seeds opportunity - that their lives mean less than others. If you think broken heating and windows aren’t demoralizing, might be good to audit psych 101.

How many carefully targeted programs for mental health support and positive employment, which for the most part fail, will it take to admit what is already realized -- poor mental health cannot be avoided. Dealt with more effectively? Absolutely. But an air-tight solution to dealing with this, as has been pointed out repeatedly, is virtually impossible. It could be mitigated significantly, but, again, as has been pointed out repeatedly, the first and primary line of defense lies with family and friends. Until this root cause is somehow resolved, we will have a 'that horse has already left the barn' situation.

A community may be poor, but priority of its schools should take precedence. Unfortunately, even with county/state (and soon, federal) governments providing funding, it is primarily still the local community's obligation to provide resolution. When people don't invest their own sweat into something, when something is given to them, human nature tends to cause them to not respect (and care for) it.

There is a common thread here. Most people know what is at the ends, but, like social security, it's another political third rail.


Those programs fail because they aren't seen through or incompetently run by non-experts like appointed officials. Local governments change, abandon or halve funding halfway through programs, and that's why they don't succeed. Everyone who has seen local organizations first hand and talked to their employees understands this. Turning a neighborhood around takes minimum 15-20 years of sustained and competent programmatic efforts. There are many case studies of success out there - look in to them and you'll see they all feature this.

'The first and primary line of defense lies with family and friends' is a false start when those individuals themselves have to deal with the conditions of poverty. People usually don't have the time and ability to properly address mental problems in the home when working two+ jobs or dealing with the day to day stress of living in a high-crime area.

As for education, as you well know the lion's share of funds in our nation come from local property taxes. Time and again in both blue and red states, high tax revenue areas usually don't want funds redirected to areas with low property values to improve their schools and vote as such. It's easy to say 'schools should take precedence', but that's very difficult to actually do with limited local government resources in poverty stricken areas. Clearly you've never actually seen the budgets in these areas or seen what quotes for correcting twelve+ years of deferred maintenance looks like in a BOE hearing.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sun May 02, 2021 5:48 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
If it was a problem with the guns, the problem would be widespread across the countries where violent video games and movies are popular. Quite easy to pinpoint what the problem is, and possible solutions have been proposed, but we might as well be shouting at a squirrel, would probably have more of an effect.


In any group of 100 boys (who all play Grand Theft Auto), at least 10 of them would be willing to jack cars. If there is no father or police officer to stop them, they WILL do it.


I'm sure that a comprehensive study has been conducted to find this information...


I can't find any numbers easily, however it seems in the UK GTA V sold 1.1 million copies in 2020 alone, the figure is probably much higher. The rate of carjacking is not even remotely close to being committed by 10% of boys. That is complete and utter codswallop.

The evidence is quite apparent: video games do not have a significant influence on behaviour, except in very few cases (where there's almost certainly more at play), if the USA is having problems with guns and car theft, it's because of endemic issues within their society. There's no shortage of people who can tell you what the problems are and how to combat them, might be an idea to start listening.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sun May 02, 2021 6:06 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
If it was a problem with the guns, the problem would be widespread across the countries where violent video games and movies are popular. Quite easy to pinpoint what the problem is, and possible solutions have been proposed, but we might as well be shouting at a squirrel, would probably have more of an effect.


In any group of 100 boys (who all play Grand Theft Auto), at least 10 of them would be willing to jack cars. If there is no father or police officer to stop them, they WILL do it.


I'm sure that a comprehensive study has been conducted to find this information...


I can't find any numbers easily, however it seems in the UK GTA V sold 1.1 million copies in 2020 alone, the figure is probably much higher. The rate of carjacking is not even remotely close to being committed by 10% of boys. That is complete and utter codswallop.

The evidence is quite apparent: video games do not have a significant influence on behaviour, except in very few cases (where there's almost certainly more at play), if the USA is having problems with guns and car theft, it's because of endemic issues within their society. There's no shortage of people who can tell you what the problems are and how to combat them, might be an idea to start listening.


A certain number of boys will start raising hell, if they have no father figure, and no police presence. Many countries are currently in absolute chaos due to misbehaving boys and young men. This has been true for 10,000 years. This is what gave rise to policing in the first place.

I totally agree with what you said - video games do not influence crime except in cases where there is "more at play." When they are in a chaotic, lawless environment.
 
Elkadad313
Topic Author
Posts: 154
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sun May 02, 2021 7:49 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Nobody serious claims those are solutions. Carefully targeted programs for mental health support and positive employment are solutions though. Also investment in school infrastructure. People growing up in poverty don’t need to be reminded in school - the place that seeds opportunity - that their lives mean less than others. If you think broken heating and windows aren’t demoralizing, might be good to audit psych 101.

How many carefully targeted programs for mental health support and positive employment, which for the most part fail, will it take to admit what is already realized -- poor mental health cannot be avoided. Dealt with more effectively? Absolutely. But an air-tight solution to dealing with this, as has been pointed out repeatedly, is virtually impossible. It could be mitigated significantly, but, again, as has been pointed out repeatedly, the first and primary line of defense lies with family and friends. Until this root cause is somehow resolved, we will have a 'that horse has already left the barn' situation.

A community may be poor, but priority of its schools should take precedence. Unfortunately, even with county/state (and soon, federal) governments providing funding, it is still primarily the local community's obligation to provide resolution. When people don't invest their own sweat into something, when something is just given to them, human nature tends to cause them to not respect (and care for) it.

There is a common thread here. Most people know what it is, but, like social security, it's another political third rail.

Aaron747 wrote:
Those programs fail because they aren't seen through or incompetently run by non-experts like appointed officials. Local governments change, abandon or halve funding halfway through programs, and that's why they don't succeed. Everyone who has seen local organizations first hand and talked to their employees understands this. Turning a neighborhood around takes minimum 15-20 years of sustained and competent programmatic efforts. There are many case studies of success out there - look in to them and you'll see they all feature this.

'The first and primary line of defense lies with family and friends' is a false start when those individuals themselves have to deal with the conditions of poverty. People usually don't have the time and ability to properly address mental problems in the home when working two+ jobs or dealing with the day to day stress of living in a high-crime area.

As for education, as you well know the lion's share of funds in our nation come from local property taxes. Time and again in both blue and red states, high tax revenue areas usually don't want funds redirected to areas with low property values to improve their schools and vote as such. It's easy to say 'schools should take precedence', but that's very difficult to actually do with limited local government resources in poverty stricken areas. Clearly you've never actually seen the budgets in these areas or seen what quotes for correcting twelve+ years of deferred maintenance looks like in a BOE hearing.


Exactly how is a neighborhood turned around? Can you provide some examples? Oh, I see. It takes time, plenty of time. And you know it is inevitable that ‘a minimum 15-20 years of sustained and competent programmatic efforts’ is never going to happen, so the well-meaning ‘programmaticers’ will retire with a nice pension, regardless of not achieving original goals (yes, governments are known to reward failure).

Actually, I was a three-term trustee in a large village (pop. 50K+) and had many meetings with our local consolidated school district’s BOE. I know exactly what a well-functioning school district should and can do. As a longtime BBBS volunteer in a very large city, I have had an opportunity to attend annual school board meetings. The budgets are presented in the form of, much like Boeing did with MCAS, ‘Jedi Mind Tricks.’ If you are ever involved with the BOE of a very large city with plans to influence the adoption of substantive, badly needed changes, you are likely in for a big disappointment. Of course, if you have the ability to actually influence politically motivated BOE and union officials, I’m sure President Biden will gladly ask Miguel Cardona to step aside so a bona fide expert can finally show us how it’s done.

It takes a village, Aaron, an ENTIRE village. Everyone must contribute. If everyone does not contribute (effort, not $$$) the village has no hope of succeeding. There is a huge roadblock in the way. Millions of words are used in an attempt to define causes and solutions, but as for the former, I know (as do most everyone) it is (initials only): ID. You’re a bright guy – have at it.

Aaron747 wrote:
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty.

As a society, we are all to blame in ne way or another. Throwing a rock will have a better chance of hitting someone who is ignoring the truth.
 
avier
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sun May 02, 2021 7:58 pm

I'd say it's combination of movies (Netflix) and largely the Gaming Industry! Constantly seeing killings, murder, shooting, etc tends to desensitize people. Most of the famous games include some form of shooting/killing/assassinating as the goal or theme of the game. Some of the games are extremely gruesome too and it conditions people's mind after a point.
 
Elkadad313
Topic Author
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:55 am

Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sun May 02, 2021 8:19 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Virtual737 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
As Hollywood movies are being consumed globally, if such correlation exists, it must be causing a rise in gunshooting incidents globally?


Most of the rest of the world doesn't have such easy access to guns.


but some places do, and if it was movies and TV they would have the same problem.

best regards
Thomas

Are you assuming all these places (societies) have the same cultures, values, etc? If they do, your statement is well taken. However, I have been to the U.K., Italy, Japan and Australia in the past three years (and 32 others in my lifetime). My impression was their cultures differ from the U.S., in many cases dramatically so.

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