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petertenthije
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sun May 02, 2021 8:29 pm

Elkadad313 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Virtual737 wrote:

Most of the rest of the world doesn't have such easy access to guns.


but some places do, and if it was movies and TV they would have the same problem.

best regards
Thomas

Are you assuming all these places (societies) have the same cultures, values, etc? If they do, your statement is well taken. However, I have been to the U.K., Italy, Japan and Australia in the past three years (and 32 others in my lifetime). My impression was their cultures differ from the U.S., in many cases dramatically so.

So we are in agreement that the root cause is not tv, movies or gaming since those are global... but something intrinsic to the US cultures and values?
The first thing to remember is always treat your kite like you treat your woman.
Get inside her five times a day and take her to heaven and back!
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Elkadad313
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sun May 02, 2021 10:34 pm

petertenthije wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

but some places do, and if it was movies and TV they would have the same problem.

best regards
Thomas

Are you assuming all these places (societies) have the same cultures, values, etc? If they do, your statement is well taken. However, I have been to the U.K., Italy, Japan and Australia in the past three years (and 32 others in my lifetime). My impression was their cultures differ from the U.S., in many cases dramatically so.

So we are in agreement that the root cause is not tv, movies or gaming since those are global... but something intrinsic to the US cultures and values?

In the U.S. they are intertwined. What don't you understand about different cultures having different responses to things that are basically the same? It seems you haven’t traveled much. People in one part of the world with its distinct culture may be more or less sensitive or responsive to particular stimuli than others from different regions. Food, humor, fashion, travel, movies/TV shows, et al.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sun May 02, 2021 11:12 pm

Elkadad313 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:

How many carefully targeted programs for mental health support and positive employment, which for the most part fail, will it take to admit what is already realized -- poor mental health cannot be avoided. Dealt with more effectively? Absolutely. But an air-tight solution to dealing with this, as has been pointed out repeatedly, is virtually impossible. It could be mitigated significantly, but, again, as has been pointed out repeatedly, the first and primary line of defense lies with family and friends. Until this root cause is somehow resolved, we will have a 'that horse has already left the barn' situation.

A community may be poor, but priority of its schools should take precedence. Unfortunately, even with county/state (and soon, federal) governments providing funding, it is still primarily the local community's obligation to provide resolution. When people don't invest their own sweat into something, when something is just given to them, human nature tends to cause them to not respect (and care for) it.

There is a common thread here. Most people know what it is, but, like social security, it's another political third rail.

Aaron747 wrote:
Those programs fail because they aren't seen through or incompetently run by non-experts like appointed officials. Local governments change, abandon or halve funding halfway through programs, and that's why they don't succeed. Everyone who has seen local organizations first hand and talked to their employees understands this. Turning a neighborhood around takes minimum 15-20 years of sustained and competent programmatic efforts. There are many case studies of success out there - look in to them and you'll see they all feature this.

'The first and primary line of defense lies with family and friends' is a false start when those individuals themselves have to deal with the conditions of poverty. People usually don't have the time and ability to properly address mental problems in the home when working two+ jobs or dealing with the day to day stress of living in a high-crime area.

As for education, as you well know the lion's share of funds in our nation come from local property taxes. Time and again in both blue and red states, high tax revenue areas usually don't want funds redirected to areas with low property values to improve their schools and vote as such. It's easy to say 'schools should take precedence', but that's very difficult to actually do with limited local government resources in poverty stricken areas. Clearly you've never actually seen the budgets in these areas or seen what quotes for correcting twelve+ years of deferred maintenance looks like in a BOE hearing.


Exactly how is a neighborhood turned around? Can you provide some examples? Oh, I see. It takes time, plenty of time. And you know it is inevitable that ‘a minimum 15-20 years of sustained and competent programmatic efforts’ is never going to happen, so the well-meaning ‘programmaticers’ will retire with a nice pension, regardless of not achieving original goals (yes, governments are known to reward failure).

Actually, I was a three-term trustee in a large village (pop. 50K+) and had many meetings with our local consolidated school district’s BOE. I know exactly what a well-functioning school district should and can do. As a longtime BBBS volunteer in a very large city, I have had an opportunity to attend annual school board meetings. The budgets are presented in the form of, much like Boeing did with MCAS, ‘Jedi Mind Tricks.’ If you are ever involved with the BOE of a very large city with plans to influence the adoption of substantive, badly needed changes, you are likely in for a big disappointment. Of course, if you have the ability to actually influence politically motivated BOE and union officials, I’m sure President Biden will gladly ask Miguel Cardona to step aside so a bona fide expert can finally show us how it’s done.

It takes a village, Aaron, an ENTIRE village. Everyone must contribute. If everyone does not contribute (effort, not $$$) the village has no hope of succeeding. There is a huge roadblock in the way. Millions of words are used in an attempt to define causes and solutions, but as for the former, I know (as do most everyone) it is (initials only): ID. You’re a bright guy – have at it.

Aaron747 wrote:
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty.

As a society, we are all to blame in ne way or another. Throwing a rock will have a better chance of hitting someone who is ignoring the truth.


So in that long response what wasn’t said was: no, you have not experienced the pressures and limited resources a BOE operates under in a low income area. But you’ll continue to insist ‘education must take precedence’.

Equal opportunity sounds great on paper - it’s quite different as a lived experience in low income urban school systems.

In any case, you are correct that there are inevitably obstacles to making sustained efforts at local change. That doesn’t mean we should stop trying as a society - giving up would be unAmerican.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Elkadad313
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Mon May 03, 2021 12:38 am

While I have not ‘experienced’ the pressures and limited resources a BOE operates under in a low-income area, I have personally observed them. As a BBBS volunteer in an extremely large city, and with my clients all residing in one of, if not the worst, neighborhoods, I attended many monthly BOE meetings. As I previously explained, politics, not the well-being of students, was nearly always what took precedence.

You say equal opportunity on paper is quite different as a lived experience in low income urban school systems. I agree, but I came as close as someone not actually a resident could.

I ask again, ‘Exactly how is a neighborhood turned around?' Can you provide some examples of how this has been done successfully in the U.S., with or without governmental assistance?’
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Mon May 03, 2021 1:24 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
I ask again, ‘Exactly how is a neighborhood turned around?' Can you provide some examples of how this has been done successfully in the U.S., with or without governmental assistance?’


Usually through a combination of municipal policies, investment strategies, and community organizations. If all three work together, lots of good comes of it. There are a number of case studies city wonks have followed in recent years:

Patterson Park in Baltimore, Fruitvale in Oakland (arguably downtown too), Midtown in Detroit and even Hollywood in LA are just a few neighborhood comeback stories from the last few years.

https://communityarchitectdaily.blogspo ... art-1.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jpmorganch ... 1d275137a5

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/21/us/c ... eback.html
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Elkadad313
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Mon May 03, 2021 2:00 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
I ask again, ‘Exactly how is a neighborhood turned around?' Can you provide some examples of how this has been done successfully in the U.S., with or without governmental assistance?’


Usually through a combination of municipal policies, investment strategies, and community organizations. If all three work together, lots of good comes of it. There are a number of case studies city wonks have followed in recent years:

Patterson Park in Baltimore, Fruitvale in Oakland (arguably downtown too), Midtown in Detroit and even Hollywood in LA are just a few neighborhood comeback stories from the last few years.

https://communityarchitectdaily.blogspo ... art-1.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jpmorganch ... 1d275137a5

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/21/us/c ... eback.html

So it can be done. Now to just replicate these X 1000 or so. Time to get to work so there is hope for our grandchildren. :checkmark:
 
petertenthije
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Mon May 03, 2021 3:19 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
In the U.S. they are intertwined. What don't you understand about different cultures having different responses to things that are basically the same? It seems you haven’t traveled much. People in one part of the world with its distinct culture may be more or less sensitive or responsive to particular stimuli than others from different regions. Food, humor, fashion, travel, movies/TV shows, et al.
let me ask you a question so that you may respond without an ad-hominem.

What is different about US culture that would cause tv/games/movies to be more intertwined then, say, the Netherlands.

Don’t blame tv/games/movies for something they are not responsible for. They may be the thing that pushes someone over the edge (i doubt that’s the case, but will let you have that). But that does not make them the ROOT cause.

You first need to identify the root cause to be able to solve a problem. Banning or restricting certain tv/games/movies is like pumping water out of a ship without plugging the hole. It might make you feel better and avoid immediate catastrophe, but long term the problem persists and is likely to grow beyond control.

As for my travels: USA, Russia and most of the western- and Central European countries.
The first thing to remember is always treat your kite like you treat your woman.
Get inside her five times a day and take her to heaven and back!
Lord Flashheart, 1989
 
Virtual737
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Mon May 03, 2021 3:40 am

petertenthije wrote:
...is like pumping water out of a ship without plugging the hole. It might make you feel better and avoid immediate catastrophe, but long term the problem persists and is likely to grow beyond control


If that hole was well hidden, you'd be rather foolish not to pump the water out while looking for it.
 
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seb146
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Mon May 03, 2021 4:03 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
I ask again, ‘Exactly how is a neighborhood turned around?' Can you provide some examples of how this has been done successfully in the U.S., with or without governmental assistance?’


Usually through a combination of municipal policies, investment strategies, and community organizations. If all three work together, lots of good comes of it. There are a number of case studies city wonks have followed in recent years:

Patterson Park in Baltimore, Fruitvale in Oakland (arguably downtown too), Midtown in Detroit and even Hollywood in LA are just a few neighborhood comeback stories from the last few years.

https://communityarchitectdaily.blogspo ... art-1.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jpmorganch ... 1d275137a5

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/21/us/c ... eback.html

So it can be done. Now to just replicate these X 1000 or so. Time to get to work so there is hope for our grandchildren. :checkmark:


No. These neighborhoods and communities do something but, at the state level, nothing is being done because NRA and the whole "WE NEEDZ AR GUNZZ!!!" mindset. Look at the Republican talking point of "Chicago has failed". They never ever at all any time explain WHY Chicago has "failed" and that is because the rest of Illinois, neighboring states, or the federal government does not enact any kind of laws on par with Chicago. So, Republicans can point to Chicago as failed but, because they refuse to point to everything outside Chicago, their cult followers believe them.

Also, I was talking with other "we didn't have this problem when we were kids" type and one of the big things is that weapons of mass destruction were only available to the military where they needed them and not the general public. My friends could take their deer hunting rifle with them to school because they were going hunting later and their rifle was in the truck. Now, who knows? There is no difference between a 20.06 and an AR-15 because "SECOND AMENDMENT!!!" and "DON'T TAKE OUR GUNS!!!!" is more important. Are they using their AR-15 for hunting game to get their family through winter or settle a vendetta? Who cares? Second Amendment. So sayeth the party of every life is precious.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Elkadad313
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Mon May 03, 2021 4:56 am

petertenthije wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
In the U.S. they are intertwined. What don't you understand about different cultures having different responses to things that are basically the same? It seems you haven’t traveled much. People in one part of the world with its distinct culture may be more or less sensitive or responsive to particular stimuli than others from different regions. Food, humor, fashion, travel, movies/TV shows, et al.


Let me ask you a question so that you may respond without an ad-hominem.

Elkadad313 wrote:
I have tried to keep my responses subjective and not in ad-hominem fashion.


What is different about US culture that would cause tv/games/movies to be more intertwined then, say, the Netherlands?

Elkadad313 wrote:
I think there are many, but primarily it is a counter-culture mentality. Some of that exists in (The Netherlands, etc.) but it is magnified in the U.S.


Don’t blame tv/games/movies for something they are not responsible for. They may be the thing that pushes someone over the edge (i doubt that’s the case, but will let you have that). But that does not make them the ROOT cause.

Elkadad313 wrote:
I didn't say they were SOLEY responsible, but most people agree they are huge contributors. The way things are in the U.S. now, a very large contributor is best described with two words. The initials are ID. I asked another poster to define it without a response.


You first need to identify the root cause to be able to solve a problem. Banning or restricting certain tv/games/movies is like pumping water out of a ship without plugging the hole. It might make you feel better and avoid immediate catastrophe, but long term the problem persists and is likely to grow beyond control.

Elkadad313 wrote:
I just gave you the opportunity to identify what everyone knows is the real root cause of most of the U.S. gun violence (mentally ill is #2). I have never suggested banning certain tv/games/movies, but many need to be toned down substantially.

In post #33 ltbewr makes a very good point. I quote, ‘Violent gun uses depicted in far too many movies and TV shows don't show how much a human body is destroyed by them. There is the almost cartoonist ways gun violence is shown, no terrible wounds, no guts hanging out, no remorse by the shooter, too often the shooter never gets shot themselves, tends to be 'justified' if done by a 'good guy' or cop.’

I have spent a fair amount of time in some foreign countries. Their TV (and presumably, movies) don’t broadcast anywhere near the number of programs that have excessive gun violence as in the U.S.


As for my travels: USA, Russia and most of the western- and Central European countries.

Elkadad313 wrote:
St. Petersburg is fascinating. The hellish train trip from there to Moscow will never be repeated, however.
 
Elkadad313
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Mon May 03, 2021 5:14 am

No. These neighborhoods and communities do something but, at the state level, nothing is being done because NRA and the whole "WE NEEDZ AR GUNZZ!!!" mindset. Look at the Republican talking point of "Chicago has failed". They never ever at all any time explain WHY Chicago has "failed" and that is because the rest of Illinois, neighboring states, or the federal government does not enact any kind of laws on par with Chicago. So, Republicans can point to Chicago as failed but, because they refuse to point to everything outside Chicago, their cult followers believe them.

Elkadad313 wrote:
A vast majority of gun owners (legally) are not the problem. Figure out how to deal with the mentally ill and inner-city gangs and there will be MUCH, MUCH less gun violence. The NRA (I am not a member and think they are a$$holes) doesn’t really factor into this unless you are advocating striking the 2nd.


They never ever at all any time explain WHY Chicago has "failed" and that is because the rest of Illinois, neighboring states, or the federal government does not enact any kind of laws on par with Chicago. So, Republicans can point to Chicago as failed but, because they refuse to point to everything outside Chicago, their cult followers believe them.

Elkadad313 wrote:
Are you saying everything outside of Chicago is hunky dory?


Also, I was talking with other "we didn't have this problem when we were kids" type and one of the big things is that weapons of mass destruction were only available to the military where they needed them and not the general public. My friends could take their deer hunting rifle with them to school because they were going hunting later and their rifle was in the truck. Now, who knows? There is no difference between a 20.06 and an AR-15 because "SECOND AMENDMENT!!!" and "DON'T TAKE OUR GUNS!!!!" is more important. Are they using their AR-15 for hunting game to get their family through winter or settle a vendetta? Who cares? Second Amendment. So sayeth the party of every life is precious.

Elkadad313 wrote:
Yep, that is your agenda – doing away with the 2nd. Not gonna happen. Pour your energy into a realistic endeavor, which is dealing with the real problem.
 
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seb146
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Mon May 03, 2021 5:42 pm

Elkadad313 wrote:
No. These neighborhoods and communities do something but, at the state level, nothing is being done because NRA and the whole "WE NEEDZ AR GUNZZ!!!" mindset. Look at the Republican talking point of "Chicago has failed". They never ever at all any time explain WHY Chicago has "failed" and that is because the rest of Illinois, neighboring states, or the federal government does not enact any kind of laws on par with Chicago. So, Republicans can point to Chicago as failed but, because they refuse to point to everything outside Chicago, their cult followers believe them.

Elkadad313 wrote:
A vast majority of gun owners (legally) are not the problem. Figure out how to deal with the mentally ill and inner-city gangs and there will be MUCH, MUCH less gun violence. The NRA (I am not a member and think they are a$$holes) doesn’t really factor into this unless you are advocating striking the 2nd.


They never ever at all any time explain WHY Chicago has "failed" and that is because the rest of Illinois, neighboring states, or the federal government does not enact any kind of laws on par with Chicago. So, Republicans can point to Chicago as failed but, because they refuse to point to everything outside Chicago, their cult followers believe them.

Elkadad313 wrote:
Are you saying everything outside of Chicago is hunky dory?


Also, I was talking with other "we didn't have this problem when we were kids" type and one of the big things is that weapons of mass destruction were only available to the military where they needed them and not the general public. My friends could take their deer hunting rifle with them to school because they were going hunting later and their rifle was in the truck. Now, who knows? There is no difference between a 20.06 and an AR-15 because "SECOND AMENDMENT!!!" and "DON'T TAKE OUR GUNS!!!!" is more important. Are they using their AR-15 for hunting game to get their family through winter or settle a vendetta? Who cares? Second Amendment. So sayeth the party of every life is precious.

Elkadad313 wrote:
Yep, that is your agenda – doing away with the 2nd. Not gonna happen. Pour your energy into a realistic endeavor, which is dealing with the real problem.


Only Republicans talk about abolishing the Second Amendment. Every time there is a debate about guns, Republicans start screaming and whining about "liberals" taking guns and "liberals" taking away the Second Amendment.

Obviously we have a problem in this country. Guns solve problems. That is what we are being told. We can not address mental health issues because Republicans do not want to help others. We can not address poverty issues because Republicans do not want to help others. But don't take guns away is the biggest thing Republicans advocate.

As far as gangs, there have been gangs for decades. Because Republicans make it easier and easier to get guns, those gangs can get guns easier. And, now, with Republicans sitting on courts across the country, thanks to Mitch McConnell, we will see a rise in gun violence. But there is nothing at all we can do because anything is seen as "liberals" trying to take away guns.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Wed May 05, 2021 10:36 pm

seb146 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Usually through a combination of municipal policies, investment strategies, and community organizations. If all three work together, lots of good comes of it. There are a number of case studies city wonks have followed in recent years:

Patterson Park in Baltimore, Fruitvale in Oakland (arguably downtown too), Midtown in Detroit and even Hollywood in LA are just a few neighborhood comeback stories from the last few years.

https://communityarchitectdaily.blogspo ... art-1.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jpmorganch ... 1d275137a5

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/21/us/c ... eback.html

So it can be done. Now to just replicate these X 1000 or so. Time to get to work so there is hope for our grandchildren. :checkmark:


No. These neighborhoods and communities do something but, at the state level, nothing is being done because NRA and the whole "WE NEEDZ AR GUNZZ!!!" mindset. Look at the Republican talking point of "Chicago has failed". They never ever at all any time explain WHY Chicago has "failed" and that is because the rest of Illinois, neighboring states, or the federal government does not enact any kind of laws on par with Chicago. So, Republicans can point to Chicago as failed but, because they refuse to point to everything outside Chicago, their cult followers believe them.

Also, I was talking with other "we didn't have this problem when we were kids" type and one of the big things is that weapons of mass destruction were only available to the military where they needed them and not the general public. My friends could take their deer hunting rifle with them to school because they were going hunting later and their rifle was in the truck. Now, who knows? There is no difference between a 20.06 and an AR-15 because "SECOND AMENDMENT!!!" and "DON'T TAKE OUR GUNS!!!!" is more important. Are they using their AR-15 for hunting game to get their family through winter or settle a vendetta? Who cares? Second Amendment. So sayeth the party of every life is precious.


What’s a 20.06? Never heard of it. Now, if you’re thinking .30/06, you need to remember it was a MILITARY designed round for a MILITARY ASSAULT RIFLE—the Springfield 1903. Remington made thousands of semi-auto rifles in .30/06. The round has twice the energy as any AR-15 in 5.56 and quite a bit more deadly. Again, rifles of all kinds kill far fewer than any just about any other rifle. 2% of the population are responsible for 40% of the US homicides and they never use an AR-15, handguns. Guess what ethic/racial and age group that is.
 
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seb146
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Thu May 06, 2021 5:32 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
So it can be done. Now to just replicate these X 1000 or so. Time to get to work so there is hope for our grandchildren. :checkmark:


No. These neighborhoods and communities do something but, at the state level, nothing is being done because NRA and the whole "WE NEEDZ AR GUNZZ!!!" mindset. Look at the Republican talking point of "Chicago has failed". They never ever at all any time explain WHY Chicago has "failed" and that is because the rest of Illinois, neighboring states, or the federal government does not enact any kind of laws on par with Chicago. So, Republicans can point to Chicago as failed but, because they refuse to point to everything outside Chicago, their cult followers believe them.

Also, I was talking with other "we didn't have this problem when we were kids" type and one of the big things is that weapons of mass destruction were only available to the military where they needed them and not the general public. My friends could take their deer hunting rifle with them to school because they were going hunting later and their rifle was in the truck. Now, who knows? There is no difference between a 20.06 and an AR-15 because "SECOND AMENDMENT!!!" and "DON'T TAKE OUR GUNS!!!!" is more important. Are they using their AR-15 for hunting game to get their family through winter or settle a vendetta? Who cares? Second Amendment. So sayeth the party of every life is precious.


What’s a 20.06? Never heard of it. Now, if you’re thinking .30/06, you need to remember it was a MILITARY designed round for a MILITARY ASSAULT RIFLE—the Springfield 1903. Remington made thousands of semi-auto rifles in .30/06. The round has twice the energy as any AR-15 in 5.56 and quite a bit more deadly. Again, rifles of all kinds kill far fewer than any just about any other rifle. 2% of the population are responsible for 40% of the US homicides and they never use an AR-15, handguns. Guess what ethic/racial and age group that is.


So, again, why are MILITARY weapons available to the general public? Also, are you suggesting restricting ownership of guns by a specific group? Taking away their 2A rights?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Newark727
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Thu May 06, 2021 6:53 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
What’s a 20.06? Never heard of it. Now, if you’re thinking .30/06, you need to remember it was a MILITARY designed round for a MILITARY ASSAULT RIFLE—the Springfield 1903. Remington made thousands of semi-auto rifles in .30/06. The round has twice the energy as any AR-15 in 5.56 and quite a bit more deadly. Again, rifles of all kinds kill far fewer than any just about any other rifle. 2% of the population are responsible for 40% of the US homicides and they never use an AR-15, handguns. Guess what ethic/racial and age group that is.


Of course, if anyone wanted to do anything about the easy access to cheap Saturday night special handguns, that would also be unacceptable for what I'm sure are well-founded legal reasons and not decades of moral vacuity. Decision-makers ignore troubled parts of the country for decades, then blame them for their own failing to listen.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Thu May 06, 2021 10:03 pm

seb146 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
seb146 wrote:

No. These neighborhoods and communities do something but, at the state level, nothing is being done because NRA and the whole "WE NEEDZ AR GUNZZ!!!" mindset. Look at the Republican talking point of "Chicago has failed". They never ever at all any time explain WHY Chicago has "failed" and that is because the rest of Illinois, neighboring states, or the federal government does not enact any kind of laws on par with Chicago. So, Republicans can point to Chicago as failed but, because they refuse to point to everything outside Chicago, their cult followers believe them.

Also, I was talking with other "we didn't have this problem when we were kids" type and one of the big things is that weapons of mass destruction were only available to the military where they needed them and not the general public. My friends could take their deer hunting rifle with them to school because they were going hunting later and their rifle was in the truck. Now, who knows? There is no difference between a 20.06 and an AR-15 because "SECOND AMENDMENT!!!" and "DON'T TAKE OUR GUNS!!!!" is more important. Are they using their AR-15 for hunting game to get their family through winter or settle a vendetta? Who cares? Second Amendment. So sayeth the party of every life is precious.


What’s a 20.06? Never heard of it. Now, if you’re thinking .30/06, you need to remember it was a MILITARY designed round for a MILITARY ASSAULT RIFLE—the Springfield 1903. Remington made thousands of semi-auto rifles in .30/06. The round has twice the energy as any AR-15 in 5.56 and quite a bit more deadly. Again, rifles of all kinds kill far fewer than any just about any other rifle. 2% of the population are responsible for 40% of the US homicides and they never use an AR-15, handguns. Guess what ethic/racial and age group that is.


So, again, why are MILITARY weapons available to the general public? Also, are you suggesting restricting ownership of guns by a specific group? Taking away their 2A rights?


Every “common use” civil rifle started out as a MILITARY weapon, from the musket to the various Sharp’s rifle of the Civil War, the Colt Model P revolver, the 1903 Springfield rifle we used in WWI, the M1911 pistol, the M1 Garland widely sold after WW II and brought semi-auto rifles mass produced into general use by ex-soldiers to the AR pattern rifles. It’s just the way it is, embrace the suck. But, funny thing, they’re no near the cause of deaths—it’s the stolen pistol that reigns. And, it reigns in a very specific criminal class. Criminal classes absolutely shouldn’t have legal possession, but that would disfavor a protected class. In fact, the criminal classes aren’t legal owners of their TODAY, this moment.

The goal of your rants has ZERO to do with reducing violence, saving lives; it’s about KultureKampf, punishing those you find distasteful.
 
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seb146
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri May 07, 2021 5:14 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
seb146 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

What’s a 20.06? Never heard of it. Now, if you’re thinking .30/06, you need to remember it was a MILITARY designed round for a MILITARY ASSAULT RIFLE—the Springfield 1903. Remington made thousands of semi-auto rifles in .30/06. The round has twice the energy as any AR-15 in 5.56 and quite a bit more deadly. Again, rifles of all kinds kill far fewer than any just about any other rifle. 2% of the population are responsible for 40% of the US homicides and they never use an AR-15, handguns. Guess what ethic/racial and age group that is.


So, again, why are MILITARY weapons available to the general public? Also, are you suggesting restricting ownership of guns by a specific group? Taking away their 2A rights?


Every “common use” civil rifle started out as a MILITARY weapon, from the musket to the various Sharp’s rifle of the Civil War, the Colt Model P revolver, the 1903 Springfield rifle we used in WWI, the M1911 pistol, the M1 Garland widely sold after WW II and brought semi-auto rifles mass produced into general use by ex-soldiers to the AR pattern rifles. It’s just the way it is, embrace the suck. But, funny thing, they’re no near the cause of deaths—it’s the stolen pistol that reigns. And, it reigns in a very specific criminal class. Criminal classes absolutely shouldn’t have legal possession, but that would disfavor a protected class. In fact, the criminal classes aren’t legal owners of their TODAY, this moment.

The goal of your rants has ZERO to do with reducing violence, saving lives; it’s about KultureKampf, punishing those you find distasteful.


Give me a break. How many times has someone with a deer rifle mowed down an entire congregation or school? Comparing a single shot or double shot rifle to the high capacity weapons that are now on the market is silly.

I am glad you agree that something needs to be done so fewer mass shootings will happen. Like the Charleston SC church shooting or Sandy Hook or Kenosha. Yes, those were STOLEN guns. They were ILLEGALLY obtained. But, if I try to make a case for taking guns away from people who clearly should not have them because they are not the legal owners, all of a sudden, I am a gun grabbing liberal.

It seems to me Republicans don't want to do anything about the needless deaths except call everyone else names who suggests we do something. Party of life my foot.
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Aaron747
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri May 07, 2021 5:19 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
seb146 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

What’s a 20.06? Never heard of it. Now, if you’re thinking .30/06, you need to remember it was a MILITARY designed round for a MILITARY ASSAULT RIFLE—the Springfield 1903. Remington made thousands of semi-auto rifles in .30/06. The round has twice the energy as any AR-15 in 5.56 and quite a bit more deadly. Again, rifles of all kinds kill far fewer than any just about any other rifle. 2% of the population are responsible for 40% of the US homicides and they never use an AR-15, handguns. Guess what ethic/racial and age group that is.


So, again, why are MILITARY weapons available to the general public? Also, are you suggesting restricting ownership of guns by a specific group? Taking away their 2A rights?


Every “common use” civil rifle started out as a MILITARY weapon, from the musket to the various Sharp’s rifle of the Civil War, the Colt Model P revolver, the 1903 Springfield rifle we used in WWI, the M1911 pistol, the M1 Garland widely sold after WW II and brought semi-auto rifles mass produced into general use by ex-soldiers to the AR pattern rifles. It’s just the way it is, embrace the suck. But, funny thing, they’re no near the cause of deaths—it’s the stolen pistol that reigns. And, it reigns in a very specific criminal class. Criminal classes absolutely shouldn’t have legal possession, but that would disfavor a protected class. In fact, the criminal classes aren’t legal owners of their TODAY, this moment.

The goal of your rants has ZERO to do with reducing violence, saving lives; it’s about KultureKampf, punishing those you find distasteful.


Conservatives don't actually seem interested in solving 'criminal class' violence though - since they generally remain opposed to drug legalization (read: black market disruption) and heavy long-term educational/infrastructure/social safety net/private market investment in low income areas to reverse the rot that promotes violence. Libertarians generally support the former, but not the latter. Both want to just throw in the towel and essentially relegate low income residents of the US to perpetual suck. I have no idea what motivates that, but it aint having a heart. Several US banks have shown in recent years that such targeted programs linked to city initiatives can be successful, but they have to scale beyond test neighborhoods.
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T54A
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri May 07, 2021 7:23 am

Was there mass bow and arrow shootings when kids used to play ‘cowboys and Indians’?
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seb146
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri May 07, 2021 6:17 pm

T54A wrote:
Was there mass bow and arrow shootings when kids used to play ‘cowboys and Indians’?


Good point but that is only part of the equation. How available were high capacity firearms then?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
T54A
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri May 07, 2021 7:44 pm

seb146 wrote:
T54A wrote:
Was there mass bow and arrow shootings when kids used to play ‘cowboys and Indians’?


Good point but that is only part of the equation. How available were high capacity firearms then?


Yes true. But my point is there is something else fundamentally wrong in US society that needs fixing. Switzerland also has a high gun ownership rate, but they manage to behave themselves.
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Eiszeit
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri May 07, 2021 8:06 pm

Of course the US society needs to be fixed but that is impossible without outside intervention, so all WE can do is eat popcorn and wait till the next "toughts and prayers" invocing "accidant/mental illness" case happens.
 
acecrackshot
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri May 07, 2021 8:35 pm

petertenthije wrote:
. [

So we are in agreement that the root cause is not tv, movies or gaming since those are global... but something intrinsic to the US cultures and values?


If only we had data to determine this.
 
acecrackshot
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri May 07, 2021 8:36 pm

Eiszeit wrote:
Of course the US society needs to be fixed but that is impossible without outside intervention, so all WE can do is eat popcorn and wait till the next "toughts and prayers" invocing "accidant/mental illness" case happens.


It’s funny you say that, since when mass violence happens in the rest of the world the solution set always seems to involve US firepower.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri May 07, 2021 8:38 pm

acecrackshot wrote:
Eiszeit wrote:
Of course the US society needs to be fixed but that is impossible without outside intervention, so all WE can do is eat popcorn and wait till the next "toughts and prayers" invocing "accidant/mental illness" case happens.


It’s funny you say that, since when mass violence happens in the rest of the world the solution set always seems to involve US firepower.


You’re conflating government unrest/invasion violence due to instability with urban violence due to poverty, drugs, and poor mental health mitigation. Not even in the same league.
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acecrackshot
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri May 07, 2021 8:43 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
You’re conflating government unrest/invasion violence due to instability with urban violence due to poverty, drugs, and poor mental health mitigation. Not even in the same league.


Why not?

Poor people aren’t naturally violent, and it’s rather insulting to suggest it.

Yet, here you are lecturing me on decorum.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri May 07, 2021 8:58 pm

acecrackshot wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
You’re conflating government unrest/invasion violence due to instability with urban violence due to poverty, drugs, and poor mental health mitigation. Not even in the same league.


Why not?

Poor people aren’t naturally violent, and it’s rather insulting to suggest it.

Yet, here you are lecturing me on decorum.


That statement wasn’t made - please provide the quote. It’s also poor form to put words in another’s mouth.

As to ‘why not’ - it shouldn’t take a leap of logic to see the difference between actions by governments and individual actors under local conditions. Bit of a gap in scale there, yeah?
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Eiszeit
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Fri May 07, 2021 10:38 pm

acecrackshot wrote:
Eiszeit wrote:
Of course the US society needs to be fixed but that is impossible without outside intervention, so all WE can do is eat popcorn and wait till the next "toughts and prayers" invocing "accidant/mental illness" case happens.


It’s funny you say that, since when mass violence happens in the rest of the world the solution set always seems to involve US firepower.


So when was the last, or any time a country asked the US to interviene on domestic maters concerning violence against students or similar?
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 3:16 am

seb146 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So, again, why are MILITARY weapons available to the general public? Also, are you suggesting restricting ownership of guns by a specific group? Taking away their 2A rights?


Every “common use” civil rifle started out as a MILITARY weapon, from the musket to the various Sharp’s rifle of the Civil War, the Colt Model P revolver, the 1903 Springfield rifle we used in WWI, the M1911 pistol, the M1 Garland widely sold after WW II and brought semi-auto rifles mass produced into general use by ex-soldiers to the AR pattern rifles. It’s just the way it is, embrace the suck. But, funny thing, they’re no near the cause of deaths—it’s the stolen pistol that reigns. And, it reigns in a very specific criminal class. Criminal classes absolutely shouldn’t have legal possession, but that would disfavor a protected class. In fact, the criminal classes aren’t legal owners of their TODAY, this moment.

The goal of your rants has ZERO to do with reducing violence, saving lives; it’s about KultureKampf, punishing those you find distasteful.


Give me a break. How many times has someone with a deer rifle mowed down an entire congregation or school? Comparing a single shot or double shot rifle to the high capacity weapons that are now on the market is silly.

I am glad you agree that something needs to be done so fewer mass shootings will happen. Like the Charleston SC church shooting or Sandy Hook or Kenosha. Yes, those were STOLEN guns. They were ILLEGALLY obtained. But, if I try to make a case for taking guns away from people who clearly should not have them because they are not the legal owners, all of a sudden, I am a gun grabbing liberal.

It seems to me Republicans don't want to do anything about the needless deaths except call everyone else names who suggests we do something. Party of life my foot.


And you’re still not understanding historical and current “common use” firearms, deer rifles are no longer single-shot rifles and haven’t been since about 1873 when Winchester introduced the first repeating rifle, followed up by John Browning’s improvements in 1886 and 1892. Mauser’s M98 became the standard for repeating bold action rifles in 1898. Single shots are a rare rifle design. Double rifles start in the 10,000s of dollars and very, very rare in US hunting fields. Semi-automatic rifles firing very rapidly have been around since the early ‘20s, but became common in the ‘50s. All of which could use large capacity magazines then and now. All deer or larger game rifles. Browning made one firing the 338 Win Mag, an excellent moose and grizzly caliber. What’s silly is posting uninformed opinions on technical subjects.

See Remington Model of 1911.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Model_8
 
Max Q
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 3:25 am

More guns, more shootings

Simple as that
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
Elkadad313
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 4:35 am

Max Q wrote:
More guns, more shootings

Simple as that

Well then, y'all need to begin taking guns from shooters, starting with the group responsible for most shootings. Afterward, leave the responsible, licensed gun owners alone. It really is as simple as that!
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 5:16 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
Max Q wrote:
More guns, more shootings

Simple as that

Well then, y'all need to begin taking guns from shooters, starting with the group responsible for most shootings. Afterward, leave the responsible, licensed gun owners alone. It really is as simple as that!


Cute wordplay. Guns are basically unavailable legally in Australia. The 'group' responsible for most shootings there looks like you. What's your suggestion there?
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Elkadad313
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 6:03 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Max Q wrote:
More guns, more shootings

Simple as that


Well then, y'all need to begin taking guns from shooters, starting with the group responsible for most shootings. Afterward, leave the responsible, licensed gun owners alone. It really is as simple as that!


Cute wordplay. Guns are basically unavailable legally in Australia. The 'group' responsible for most shootings there looks like you. What's your suggestion there?


Dreams of some sort of Project Sunrise bouncing around in your head. My suggestion here? An effective digression.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 7:03 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:

Well then, y'all need to begin taking guns from shooters, starting with the group responsible for most shootings. Afterward, leave the responsible, licensed gun owners alone. It really is as simple as that!


Cute wordplay. Guns are basically unavailable legally in Australia. The 'group' responsible for most shootings there looks like you. What's your suggestion there?


Dreams of some sort of Project Sunrise bouncing around in your head. My suggestion here? An effective digression.


You could look into it and try to respond, but that would inevitably lead to the conclusion that it’s not the ‘group’ that’s problematic - it’s the conditions endemic to poverty. Kinda inconvenient to your narrative.
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flipdewaf
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 7:05 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
Max Q wrote:
More guns, more shootings

Simple as that

Well then, y'all need to begin taking guns from shooters, starting with the group responsible for most shootings. Afterward, leave the responsible, licensed gun owners alone. It really is as simple as that!

Seems reasonable, looks like the start of that process is the requirement of a license for gun ownership. Good first step I’d say.

Fred


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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 2:16 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Max Q wrote:
More guns, more shootings

Simple as that

Well then, y'all need to begin taking guns from shooters, starting with the group responsible for most shootings. Afterward, leave the responsible, licensed gun owners alone. It really is as simple as that!

Seems reasonable, looks like the start of that process is the requirement of a license for gun ownership. Good first step I’d say.

Fred


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Suggest trying it out on the criminals first, as they’re responsible for the murders. Oh, that’ll involve police actions, oops
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 2:31 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Well then, y'all need to begin taking guns from shooters, starting with the group responsible for most shootings. Afterward, leave the responsible, licensed gun owners alone. It really is as simple as that!

Seems reasonable, looks like the start of that process is the requirement of a license for gun ownership. Good first step I’d say.

Fred


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Suggest trying it out on the criminals first, as they’re responsible for the murders. Oh, that’ll involve police actions, oops

I’m not sure what you are saying? Are you saying there is no point having any laws because the police don’t enforce them? I guess that’s probably an issue if that’s the case. If that’s not what you mean and police are capable of enforcing laws then I think what alkadad was suggesting was making it law to have a license to own a firearm. That would make anyone owning one without a license a criminal.

Fred


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Veigar
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 2:40 pm

petertenthije wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

but some places do, and if it was movies and TV they would have the same problem.

best regards
Thomas

Are you assuming all these places (societies) have the same cultures, values, etc? If they do, your statement is well taken. However, I have been to the U.K., Italy, Japan and Australia in the past three years (and 32 others in my lifetime). My impression was their cultures differ from the U.S., in many cases dramatically so.

So we are in agreement that the root cause is not tv, movies or gaming since those are global... but something intrinsic to the US cultures and values?


It is not just video games. A lot of our music culture involve gangbanging, robbery, murder, ect. I remember a young peer a decade ago when we were both in middle school that said it was his dream to be in a prison gang. I asked him why and he said it was because it's "hard as fuck".
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 2:53 pm

Veigar wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Are you assuming all these places (societies) have the same cultures, values, etc? If they do, your statement is well taken. However, I have been to the U.K., Italy, Japan and Australia in the past three years (and 32 others in my lifetime). My impression was their cultures differ from the U.S., in many cases dramatically so.

So we are in agreement that the root cause is not tv, movies or gaming since those are global... but something intrinsic to the US cultures and values?


It is not just video games. A lot of our music culture involve gangbanging, robbery, murder, ect. I remember a young peer a decade ago when we were both in middle school that said it was his dream to be in a prison gang. I asked him why and he said it was because it's "hard as fuck".


That's likely either psychopathy or projection for massive insecurities brought on by abuse or abandonment issues.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Sat May 08, 2021 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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flipdewaf
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 2:59 pm

Veigar wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Are you assuming all these places (societies) have the same cultures, values, etc? If they do, your statement is well taken. However, I have been to the U.K., Italy, Japan and Australia in the past three years (and 32 others in my lifetime). My impression was their cultures differ from the U.S., in many cases dramatically so.

So we are in agreement that the root cause is not tv, movies or gaming since those are global... but something intrinsic to the US cultures and values?


It is not just video games. A lot of our music culture involve gangbanging, robbery, murder, ect. I remember a young peer a decade ago when we were both in middle school that said it was his dream to be in a prison gang. I asked him why and he said it was because it's "hard as fuck".

Except that those cultural references are present in basically all western countries and yet the outcomes are different...

Fred


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Elkadad313
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 3:44 pm

Aaron747 wrote:

Cute wordplay. Guns are basically unavailable legally in Australia. The 'group' responsible for most shootings there looks like you. What's your suggestion there?


Dreams of some sort of Project Sunrise bouncing around in your head. My suggestion here? An effective digression.


Aaron747 wrote:
You could look into it and try to respond, but that would inevitably lead to the conclusion that it’s not the ‘group’ that’s problematic - it’s the conditions endemic to poverty. Kinda inconvenient to your narrative.


Conditions endemic to poverty exist. The percentage of Americans living in poverty for 2019 (before the pandemic) had fallen to some of lowest levels ever recorded due to the record-long economic growth period and stood at 11.1% (adjusted for smaller response during the pandemic). The ingredients creating the 11.1% need to be fully acknowledged by those affected. As previously pointed out, both sides need to do the heavy lifting required for a workable solution to this conundrum. One side is two groups: 1) SJWs, and 2) those primarily motivated by fear of crime. The other side is motivated by a desire to escape the poverty that exists in their neighborhoods.

As things are, the latter appears to expect the former to provide disproportionate resources in solving the problem. Which is OK and doable, but when the other side persists with a victimhood attitude no solution will ever be seen as adequate by it/them.

It’s not only my narrative, it’s the narrative of anyone willing to (and capable of) seeing a problem and its solution with an open mind.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 6:01 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
Seems reasonable, looks like the start of that process is the requirement of a license for gun ownership. Good first step I’d say.

Fred


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Suggest trying it out on the criminals first, as they’re responsible for the murders. Oh, that’ll involve police actions, oops

I’m not sure what you are saying? Are you saying there is no point having any laws because the police don’t enforce them? I guess that’s probably an issue if that’s the case. If that’s not what you mean and police are capable of enforcing laws then I think what alkadad was suggesting was making it law to have a license to own a firearm. That would make anyone owning one without a license a criminal.

Fred


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When city mayors, prosecutors and police chiefs start sweeping neighborhoods for illegal guns; when they start locking up grandma for straw purchases; when witnesses stand up and testify despite “snitches get stitches “ threats; across the country, I’ll believe it. Hunter Biden needs prosecuting, too. Lies on his ATF form and irresponsible disposal of a handgun deserves being made an example.

Right now, cops have ZERO reason to enforce the laws in high crime areas. It’s easier to harass and stigmatize legal gun owners than do the hard work
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 6:10 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Suggest trying it out on the criminals first, as they’re responsible for the murders. Oh, that’ll involve police actions, oops

I’m not sure what you are saying? Are you saying there is no point having any laws because the police don’t enforce them? I guess that’s probably an issue if that’s the case. If that’s not what you mean and police are capable of enforcing laws then I think what alkadad was suggesting was making it law to have a license to own a firearm. That would make anyone owning one without a license a criminal.

Fred


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When city mayors, prosecutors and police chiefs start sweeping neighborhoods for illegal guns; when they start locking up grandma for straw purchases; when witnesses stand up and testify despite “snitches get stitches “ threats; across the country, I’ll believe it. Hunter Biden needs prosecuting, too. Lies on his ATF form and irresponsible disposal of a handgun deserves being made an example.

Right now, cops have ZERO reason to enforce the laws in high crime areas. It’s easier to harass and stigmatize legal gun owners than do the hard work

Are you saying that the current laws are effectively unenforceable?
Sounds like an issue indeed. I would think those safe gun owners wouldn’t mind guns being taken from those who are dangerous. Those who can demonstrate they safe and suitable shouldn’t worry too much about making it hard for those users who are dangerous getting hold of guns. Elkadads idea of licensing sounds like a reasonable way to do that, I’m all for safe gun owners being allowed to have guns, I have several.

Fred


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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 7:51 pm

Not unenforceable, just not enforced, very different outcomes. We are already licensed in every state. I’ve got no problem locking up illegal gun holders—try doing it where 80% of the gun violence occurs. Politics won’t let that happen. You do know the statistics? 5% of the population accounts for 55%+ of the gun violence. They happen to be an untouchable minority.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 7:53 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Not unenforceable, just not enforced, very different outcomes. We are already licensed in every state. I’ve got no problem locking up illegal gun holders—try doing it where 80% of the gun violence occurs. Politics won’t let that happen. You do know the statistics? 5% of the population accounts for 55%+ of the gun violence. They happen to be an untouchable minority.

55% by 5%, I’m honestly surprised there isn’t more of the crimes by a lower percentage. Who is the untouchable minority?

Fred


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Elkadad313
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 8:26 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Not unenforceable, just not enforced, very different outcomes. We are already licensed in every state. I’ve got no problem locking up illegal gun holders—try doing it where 80% of the gun violence occurs. Politics won’t let that happen. You do know the statistics? 5% of the population accounts for 55%+ of the gun violence. They happen to be an untouchable minority.

55% by 5%, I’m honestly surprised there isn’t more of the crimes by a lower percentage. Who is the untouchable minority?

Fred

What is the definition of a question that is asked when the answer is already known? Obvious or rhetorical come to mind but don't seem to be spot-on. Where is the a.net grammarian?
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 4095
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Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 8:37 pm

Elkadad313 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Not unenforceable, just not enforced, very different outcomes. We are already licensed in every state. I’ve got no problem locking up illegal gun holders—try doing it where 80% of the gun violence occurs. Politics won’t let that happen. You do know the statistics? 5% of the population accounts for 55%+ of the gun violence. They happen to be an untouchable minority.

55% by 5%, I’m honestly surprised there isn’t more of the crimes by a lower percentage. Who is the untouchable minority?

Fred

What is the definition of a question that is asked when the answer is already known? Obvious or rhetorical come to mind but don't seem to be spot-on. Where is the a.net grammarian?

Rhetorical I think (a question for effect?) however this is not the case here, I don’t know the answer. who is the untouchable minority in this context? I may not belong to the same cultural or geographical group where this is obvious.

Fred


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GalaxyFlyer
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 9:26 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
55% by 5%, I’m honestly surprised there isn’t more of the crimes by a lower percentage. Who is the untouchable minority?

Fred

What is the definition of a question that is asked when the answer is already known? Obvious or rhetorical come to mind but don't seem to be spot-on. Where is the a.net grammarian?

Rhetorical I think (a question for effect?) however this is not the case here, I don’t know the answer. who is the untouchable minority in this context? I may not belong to the same cultural or geographical group where this is obvious.

Fred


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Here’s a link to the FBI 2019 stats,

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... able-3.xls
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 4095
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 9:47 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
What is the definition of a question that is asked when the answer is already known? Obvious or rhetorical come to mind but don't seem to be spot-on. Where is the a.net grammarian?

Rhetorical I think (a question for effect?) however this is not the case here, I don’t know the answer. who is the untouchable minority in this context? I may not belong to the same cultural or geographical group where this is obvious.

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Here’s a link to the FBI 2019 stats,

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... able-3.xls

I totally see your point, there appears to be a huge issue with those aged 17-35, particularly males. Maybe the licensing would be good to have age limits attached in terms of demonstrating suitability, I feel it would be harder in this day and age to separate them into different requirements based on sex, even with the 8.7% vs 63.6% difference in offence rates.

It’s a tough nut to crack.

Fred


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GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 7564
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Strong correlation between movie/TV gun violence and today's gun culture

Sat May 08, 2021 10:05 pm

They’re not getting licenses, you could make the age a 100 and it wouldn’t matter in the violence. This reminds of the time Clarkson, I think it was, as, asked a German about driving without a license. The German said it was not possible to drive without a license completely eliminating the idea that people do ignore the law.

The police will have to go house-to-house finding illegal guns. “Stop and frisk” had its issues, but it scared enough gangbangers to hide their guns and, when needed, get an innocent looking young kid to go fetch their guns.
Last edited by GalaxyFlyer on Sat May 08, 2021 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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