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ArchGuy1
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10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Mon May 03, 2021 3:28 am

Sunday marked the 10 year anniversary of the killing of Osama bin Laden by US special forces in a compound in Pakistan and this was a very big moment in history. However, the threat of terror did not stop and has changed significantly since then. I did feel a sense of accomplishment when this event took place.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Mon May 03, 2021 4:50 am

I was in 12th grade working on a project for english class, it was either Twain's "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" (don't tell my teacher I never finished it!) or "Horse Soldiers" by Doug Stanton. I read both that year but can't remember which I was working on when the tv turned to an Obama press conference saying "justice has been served". I remember jumping for joy at the best news this country had since declaring victory in the first Gulf War and what seemed like the first good news post 9/11.

My patriotism was undoubtedly fueld by my reading of Horse Soldiers since it is a very good account of the first spec ops and CIA operatives in Afghanistan in October 2001. The movie First 12 is based off the hook, but nowhere near as good. It felt like us Americans finally had a sense of closure. Hard to believe it's been 10 years since we got him and even harder to believe that the events that spurred history's largest manhunt will have it's 20 year anniversary this year.

Ironically my mother and I were watching The Apprentice when the news interrupted the show. It makes me think that moment is what drove Trump to running for president lol.
When wasn't America great?


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Kiwirob
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Mon May 03, 2021 5:12 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Sunday marked the 10 year anniversary of the killing of Osama bin Laden by US special forces in a compound in Pakistan and this was a very big moment in history. However, the threat of terror did not stop and has changed significantly since then. I did feel a sense of accomplishment when this event took place.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp


Was is really a very big moment in history? It's more a footnote in the book of US foreign military intervention failures.

The US spent 20 years shifting dirt in Afghanistan with no tangible results. Lets not talk about the mess you've left the Middle East in.
 
WIederling
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Mon May 03, 2021 7:21 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Sunday marked the 10 year anniversary of the killing of Osama bin Laden by US special forces in a compound in Pakistan and this was a very big moment in history.

However, the threat of terror did not stop and has changed significantly since then.

I did feel a sense of accomplishment when this event took place.

Wrong metric for what counts as "accomplishment" on your side?

The Bin Laden assassination streamed on video was killing porn for Poli Ticks.

Fallout from the fake vaccination campaign run to find Bin Laden
is that aid organizations have a massively increased uphill battle to fight
illnesses that could be easily fixed by (cheap) vaccination.

really a "major achievement" all around.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Mon May 03, 2021 8:50 am

Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Sunday marked the 10 year anniversary of the killing of Osama bin Laden by US special forces in a compound in Pakistan and this was a very big moment in history. However, the threat of terror did not stop and has changed significantly since then. I did feel a sense of accomplishment when this event took place.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp


Was is really a very big moment in history? It's more a footnote in the book of US foreign military intervention failures.

The US spent 20 years shifting dirt in Afghanistan with no tangible results. Lets not talk about the mess you've left the Middle East in.


To be fair, we didn't make the mess - the Brits did. We just made it more complicated after WW2.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Mon May 03, 2021 9:13 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Sunday marked the 10 year anniversary of the killing of Osama bin Laden by US special forces in a compound in Pakistan and this was a very big moment in history. However, the threat of terror did not stop and has changed significantly since then. I did feel a sense of accomplishment when this event took place.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp


Was is really a very big moment in history? It's more a footnote in the book of US foreign military intervention failures.

The US spent 20 years shifting dirt in Afghanistan with no tangible results. Lets not talk about the mess you've left the Middle East in.


To be fair, we didn't make the mess - the Brits did. We just made it more complicated after WW2.


Historic mess and current mess, two different messes.

I guess we can all agree if Israel hadn't been forced on Middle East most of todays problems simply wouldn't exist.
 
Airstud
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Mon May 03, 2021 10:36 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

Was is really a very big moment in history? It's more a footnote in the book of US foreign military intervention failures.

The US spent 20 years shifting dirt in Afghanistan with no tangible results. Lets not talk about the mess you've left the Middle East in.


To be fair, we didn't make the mess - the Brits did. We just made it more complicated after WW2.


Historic mess and current mess, two different messes.

I guess we can all agree if Israel hadn't been forced on Middle East most of todays problems simply wouldn't exist.


???

Problems like Jews having homes?
Pancakes are delicious.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Mon May 03, 2021 11:01 am

Airstud wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

To be fair, we didn't make the mess - the Brits did. We just made it more complicated after WW2.


Historic mess and current mess, two different messes.

I guess we can all agree if Israel hadn't been forced on Middle East most of todays problems simply wouldn't exist.


???

Problems like Jews having homes?


Jews didn’t need to be relocated to the Middle East after WW2, in hindsight it was pretty obvious forcing a Jewish state in the middle of the Islamic world was going to end in problems, which it has.
 
ltbewr
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Mon May 03, 2021 11:26 am

The assassination death of Osama bin Laden was to get the blood revenge that most Americans wanted for his inspiring the most deadly series of terror attacks in history and for sure was glad it happened. It was also politically necessary for then President Obama to make it look like he would take decisive action on an enemy in the Islamic world. Most Republicans supported it, but for the fact that Democrat Pres. Obama carried it out left them with mixed feelings.

It did come with a high price. We breached the sovereignty of Pakistan hurting our diplomatic relationship with them. One of the 'stealth' technology helicopters crash landed, with critical parts likely sold to China to help them develop military helicopters with similar tech. Several others, including teenage males and one woman were killed. It outed to the public the existence of the special anti-terrorists force 'Seal Team Six', putting its participants and future raids by the group at risk in the future. For sure a few those who carried out the assassination were heroes to be glorified and honored, a few betraying their oath to come out as participants to the assassination. By the time the assassination took place OBL was almost nothing as an inspiration to terrorism against the USA.

It is also interesting that the event was set up on the night of the annual White House Correspondents Dinner, an event that until Pres. Trump, was one of humor, moderate ribbing of a sitting President at them. The dinner and its entertainment continued that evening but during it several high level government people left with some going to the White House. For sure it was a great coincidental or perhaps intentional cover. The picture in the basement 'bunker room' of the White House of the President, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, top civilian and military leaders and their reaction as they got a live video feed of the assassination is one of most historical moment photos of modern USA history.

We still have in Gitmo dozens of alleged terrorists, likely to die there at a huge money and social cost to the USA as can never be tried and if released likely to inspire more terror attacks against the USA. OBL's assassination was only a moment of relief on The War on Terror to the USA and the world, ISIS and some who use the name al-Quada develop and continue to exist with their terrorism and horrors. In the end OBL assassination will be a footnote, a certain closure as to the attacks of 9/11/01 almost 20 years ago.
 
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cjg225
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Mon May 03, 2021 11:35 am

I can't remember why I was over my friends' apartment. It was May so it definitely wasn't to watch football... But whatever the case, we went out into the street and joined this huge crowd of other students that went down one of the main streets in the college town celebrating.
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
WIederling
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Mon May 03, 2021 11:40 am

Airstud wrote:
Problems like Jews having homes?


They had one ( After they displaced other indigenous people under order from their god.)
They left it. ( What a hoot if the Brits came back to where i live now and demanded their land back.
Nigh nobody ( as a distinct population ) today lives where their ancestors lived. )

Zionism was the complement to nationalism at the time. Neither movements did their people much good.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Mon May 03, 2021 1:14 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Airstud wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

Historic mess and current mess, two different messes.

I guess we can all agree if Israel hadn't been forced on Middle East most of todays problems simply wouldn't exist.


???

Problems like Jews having homes?


Jews didn’t need to be relocated to the Middle East after WW2, in hindsight it was pretty obvious forcing a Jewish state in the middle of the Islamic world was going to end in problems, which it has.


Even this didn't start with the Americans. And it definitely didn't start after WW2. Ever heard of Arthur Balfour?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
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Aaron747
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Mon May 03, 2021 4:09 pm

The Brits made a mess of Pakistan, India, South Africa, Israel/Palestine, and gave many of the Gulf 'kingdoms' their seat at the table before WW2. And that's only a few of the hotspots - there are plenty more. These problems have only been in the hands of the US because the UK abdicated their global leadership role.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Mon May 03, 2021 5:38 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Airstud wrote:

???

Problems like Jews having homes?


Jews didn’t need to be relocated to the Middle East after WW2, in hindsight it was pretty obvious forcing a Jewish state in the middle of the Islamic world was going to end in problems, which it has.


Even this didn't start with the Americans. And it definitely didn't start after WW2. Ever heard of Arthur Balfour?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration


Of course I’ve heard of it but it’s the US championing, supporting and financing Israel today. Therefore they are your problem.
 
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seb146
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Mon May 03, 2021 5:51 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Sunday marked the 10 year anniversary of the killing of Osama bin Laden by US special forces in a compound in Pakistan and this was a very big moment in history. However, the threat of terror did not stop and has changed significantly since then. I did feel a sense of accomplishment when this event took place.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp


Was is really a very big moment in history? It's more a footnote in the book of US foreign military intervention failures.

The US spent 20 years shifting dirt in Afghanistan with no tangible results. Lets not talk about the mess you've left the Middle East in.


GWB rallied us all to go to Afghanistan to bring OBL to justice. Then, out of nowhere, he just decided OBL was not a concern so let's go to Iraq because that is the issue because 9/11 something. One of the biggest down shifts in American history.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
stratosphere
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Mon May 03, 2021 8:07 pm

seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Sunday marked the 10 year anniversary of the killing of Osama bin Laden by US special forces in a compound in Pakistan and this was a very big moment in history. However, the threat of terror did not stop and has changed significantly since then. I did feel a sense of accomplishment when this event took place.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp


Was is really a very big moment in history? It's more a footnote in the book of US foreign military intervention failures.

The US spent 20 years shifting dirt in Afghanistan with no tangible results. Lets not talk about the mess you've left the Middle East in.


GWB rallied us all to go to Afghanistan to bring OBL to justice. Then, out of nowhere, he just decided OBL was not a concern so let's go to Iraq because that is the issue because 9/11 something. One of the biggest down shifts in American history.


Absolutely he split the fighting forces which ensured we would fail in both theaters. Never forgive Bush, Cheney and Rummy for that quagmire in Iraq.
 
aaden
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Mon May 03, 2021 8:38 pm

I often wonder if we actually got him.... I don't believe anyone independent has ever been able to confirm it. We did destroy all the evidence and never released the photos.

Anyone else have some degree of doubt?
 
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moo
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Tue May 04, 2021 3:55 am

Aaron747 wrote:
The Brits made a mess of Pakistan, India, South Africa, Israel/Palestine, and gave many of the Gulf 'kingdoms' their seat at the table before WW2. And that's only a few of the hotspots - there are plenty more. These problems have only been in the hands of the US because the UK abdicated their global leadership role.


Lets ignore then the role the US had in curtailing British colonial rule post-WW2...

A lot of people in this thread blaming the British for things that had no easy answer - Arabs were knocking seven shades of poop out of each other before the Brits got involved, and they are still at it. Those living in what is now India and Pakistan were doing the same before the Brits got involved, and are still doing it (oh, btw, lets also ignore the fact that India went on a conquering spree after the British left, subsuming under threat of violence all the smaller independent states that the Brits also created there). And then there was the US telling the UK that they couldn't do the colonial thing any more.

Given also the violence the Brits were facing from Jewish factions in the 1940s in what is now Israel, its no wonder they walked away rather than be killed.

Add to that the fact that after WW2, Britain was broke and the colonies weren't going to pay for that debt - the UK only just finished paying off debt to the US in the mid 2000s, it was that bad. With all of the political will against them, plus no money in the pot, there was nothing the UK could do *but* "abdicate" its global leadership role.
 
alfa164
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Tue May 04, 2021 3:59 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Was is really a very big moment in history? It's more a footnote in the book of US foreign military intervention failures. The US spent 20 years shifting dirt in Afghanistan with no tangible results. Lets not talk about the mess you've left the Middle East in.


To be fair, we didn't make the mess - the Brits did. We just made it more complicated after WW2.


And the Russians - don't forget the Russians' abject failure in Afghanistan.


stratosphere wrote:
seb146 wrote:
GWB rallied us all to go to Afghanistan to bring OBL to justice. Then, out of nowhere, he just decided OBL was not a concern so let's go to Iraq because that is the issue because 9/11 something. One of the biggest down shifts in American history.


Absolutely he split the fighting forces which ensured we would fail in both theaters. Never forgive Bush, Cheney and Rummy for that quagmire in Iraq.


This. The U.S.A. was the only power that actually had a chance to corral the adversaries in Afghanistan, and lead it to a credible and stable government. Instead, Cheney and his ilk decided to redirect our efforts - and our forces - into the folly that became the Iraq War. That also resulted in a loss of Arab support - and a lost of U.S. influence in the area - which as never returned.

Shameful.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Tue May 04, 2021 4:11 am

moo wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
The Brits made a mess of Pakistan, India, South Africa, Israel/Palestine, and gave many of the Gulf 'kingdoms' their seat at the table before WW2. And that's only a few of the hotspots - there are plenty more. These problems have only been in the hands of the US because the UK abdicated their global leadership role.


Lets ignore then the role the US had in curtailing British colonial rule post-WW2...

A lot of people in this thread blaming the British for things that had no easy answer - Arabs were knocking seven shades of poop out of each other before the Brits got involved, and they are still at it. Those living in what is now India and Pakistan were doing the same before the Brits got involved, and are still doing it (oh, btw, lets also ignore the fact that India went on a conquering spree after the British left, subsuming under threat of violence all the smaller independent states that the Brits also created there). And then there was the US telling the UK that they couldn't do the colonial thing any more.

Given also the violence the Brits were facing from Jewish factions in the 1940s in what is now Israel, its no wonder they walked away rather than be killed.

Add to that the fact that after WW2, Britain was broke and the colonies weren't going to pay for that debt - the UK only just finished paying off debt to the US in the mid 2000s, it was that bad. With all of the political will against them, plus no money in the pot, there was nothing the UK could do *but* "abdicate" its global leadership role.


According to what Americans taking international relations courses in university are taught (at least I was), the royals had tens of billions of pounds in wealth prior to WW1. Could have gone a long way toward problem solving and cleaning up messes, but alas, guess not. Not saying at all independence that came to several colonial states later was altogether bad, but the cost of 20th century progress was incredibly high.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
WIederling
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Wed May 05, 2021 2:30 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
According to what Americans taking international relations courses in university are taught (at least I was), the royals had tens of billions of pounds in wealth prior to WW1. Could have gone a long way toward problem solving and cleaning up messes, but alas, guess not. Not saying at all independence that came to several colonial states later was altogether bad, but the cost of 20th century progress was incredibly high.


Question is what value do "American international relations courses" have?

India still is the single working democratic nation building in the last 100+ years.
Pakistan is the result of the then Vice Roy of India being unable to achieve a compromise with the Muslim minority negotiator.

The Soviets being unable to resolve the conflict in Afghanistan is primarily due to the US funneling sophisticated weapons
to stone age fundamental islamists _just to give the Soviets their own Vietnam_.

What an abomination of a reason!
.. And blowback from that time is the foundation for their fall in the invasion after 911.
I don't think that without Iraq the outcome would have been even a tiny bit more constructive.
Recent history is filled with massively bungled interventions.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Wed May 05, 2021 3:29 pm

WIederling wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
According to what Americans taking international relations courses in university are taught (at least I was), the royals had tens of billions of pounds in wealth prior to WW1. Could have gone a long way toward problem solving and cleaning up messes, but alas, guess not. Not saying at all independence that came to several colonial states later was altogether bad, but the cost of 20th century progress was incredibly high.


Question is what value do "American international relations courses" have?


The courses I sat took just as hard a look at negative outcomes of US actions/interventions as other nations'. That wasn't the point.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Bostrom
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Re: 10 Years Since Killing of Osama Bin Laden

Wed May 05, 2021 4:46 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Sunday marked the 10 year anniversary of the killing of Osama bin Laden by US special forces in a compound in Pakistan and this was a very big moment in history. However, the threat of terror did not stop and has changed significantly since then. I did feel a sense of accomplishment when this event took place.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp


Was is really a very big moment in history? It's more a footnote in the book of US foreign military intervention failures.


No, especially not since they just killed his body double :) https://youtu.be/cnM9pdjp5o4?t=79

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