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ArchGuy1 wrote:Sunday marked the 10 year anniversary of the killing of Osama bin Laden by US special forces in a compound in Pakistan and this was a very big moment in history. However, the threat of terror did not stop and has changed significantly since then. I did feel a sense of accomplishment when this event took place.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp
ArchGuy1 wrote:Sunday marked the 10 year anniversary of the killing of Osama bin Laden by US special forces in a compound in Pakistan and this was a very big moment in history.
However, the threat of terror did not stop and has changed significantly since then.
I did feel a sense of accomplishment when this event took place.
Kiwirob wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:Sunday marked the 10 year anniversary of the killing of Osama bin Laden by US special forces in a compound in Pakistan and this was a very big moment in history. However, the threat of terror did not stop and has changed significantly since then. I did feel a sense of accomplishment when this event took place.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp
Was is really a very big moment in history? It's more a footnote in the book of US foreign military intervention failures.
The US spent 20 years shifting dirt in Afghanistan with no tangible results. Lets not talk about the mess you've left the Middle East in.
Aaron747 wrote:Kiwirob wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:Sunday marked the 10 year anniversary of the killing of Osama bin Laden by US special forces in a compound in Pakistan and this was a very big moment in history. However, the threat of terror did not stop and has changed significantly since then. I did feel a sense of accomplishment when this event took place.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp
Was is really a very big moment in history? It's more a footnote in the book of US foreign military intervention failures.
The US spent 20 years shifting dirt in Afghanistan with no tangible results. Lets not talk about the mess you've left the Middle East in.
To be fair, we didn't make the mess - the Brits did. We just made it more complicated after WW2.
Kiwirob wrote:Aaron747 wrote:Kiwirob wrote:
Was is really a very big moment in history? It's more a footnote in the book of US foreign military intervention failures.
The US spent 20 years shifting dirt in Afghanistan with no tangible results. Lets not talk about the mess you've left the Middle East in.
To be fair, we didn't make the mess - the Brits did. We just made it more complicated after WW2.
Historic mess and current mess, two different messes.
I guess we can all agree if Israel hadn't been forced on Middle East most of todays problems simply wouldn't exist.
Airstud wrote:Kiwirob wrote:Aaron747 wrote:
To be fair, we didn't make the mess - the Brits did. We just made it more complicated after WW2.
Historic mess and current mess, two different messes.
I guess we can all agree if Israel hadn't been forced on Middle East most of todays problems simply wouldn't exist.
???
Problems like Jews having homes?
Airstud wrote:Problems like Jews having homes?
Kiwirob wrote:Airstud wrote:Kiwirob wrote:
Historic mess and current mess, two different messes.
I guess we can all agree if Israel hadn't been forced on Middle East most of todays problems simply wouldn't exist.
???
Problems like Jews having homes?
Jews didn’t need to be relocated to the Middle East after WW2, in hindsight it was pretty obvious forcing a Jewish state in the middle of the Islamic world was going to end in problems, which it has.
WildcatYXU wrote:Kiwirob wrote:Airstud wrote:
???
Problems like Jews having homes?
Jews didn’t need to be relocated to the Middle East after WW2, in hindsight it was pretty obvious forcing a Jewish state in the middle of the Islamic world was going to end in problems, which it has.
Even this didn't start with the Americans. And it definitely didn't start after WW2. Ever heard of Arthur Balfour?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
Kiwirob wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:Sunday marked the 10 year anniversary of the killing of Osama bin Laden by US special forces in a compound in Pakistan and this was a very big moment in history. However, the threat of terror did not stop and has changed significantly since then. I did feel a sense of accomplishment when this event took place.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp
Was is really a very big moment in history? It's more a footnote in the book of US foreign military intervention failures.
The US spent 20 years shifting dirt in Afghanistan with no tangible results. Lets not talk about the mess you've left the Middle East in.
seb146 wrote:Kiwirob wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:Sunday marked the 10 year anniversary of the killing of Osama bin Laden by US special forces in a compound in Pakistan and this was a very big moment in history. However, the threat of terror did not stop and has changed significantly since then. I did feel a sense of accomplishment when this event took place.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp
Was is really a very big moment in history? It's more a footnote in the book of US foreign military intervention failures.
The US spent 20 years shifting dirt in Afghanistan with no tangible results. Lets not talk about the mess you've left the Middle East in.
GWB rallied us all to go to Afghanistan to bring OBL to justice. Then, out of nowhere, he just decided OBL was not a concern so let's go to Iraq because that is the issue because 9/11 something. One of the biggest down shifts in American history.
Aaron747 wrote:The Brits made a mess of Pakistan, India, South Africa, Israel/Palestine, and gave many of the Gulf 'kingdoms' their seat at the table before WW2. And that's only a few of the hotspots - there are plenty more. These problems have only been in the hands of the US because the UK abdicated their global leadership role.
Aaron747 wrote:Kiwirob wrote:Was is really a very big moment in history? It's more a footnote in the book of US foreign military intervention failures. The US spent 20 years shifting dirt in Afghanistan with no tangible results. Lets not talk about the mess you've left the Middle East in.
To be fair, we didn't make the mess - the Brits did. We just made it more complicated after WW2.
stratosphere wrote:seb146 wrote:GWB rallied us all to go to Afghanistan to bring OBL to justice. Then, out of nowhere, he just decided OBL was not a concern so let's go to Iraq because that is the issue because 9/11 something. One of the biggest down shifts in American history.
Absolutely he split the fighting forces which ensured we would fail in both theaters. Never forgive Bush, Cheney and Rummy for that quagmire in Iraq.
moo wrote:Aaron747 wrote:The Brits made a mess of Pakistan, India, South Africa, Israel/Palestine, and gave many of the Gulf 'kingdoms' their seat at the table before WW2. And that's only a few of the hotspots - there are plenty more. These problems have only been in the hands of the US because the UK abdicated their global leadership role.
Lets ignore then the role the US had in curtailing British colonial rule post-WW2...
A lot of people in this thread blaming the British for things that had no easy answer - Arabs were knocking seven shades of poop out of each other before the Brits got involved, and they are still at it. Those living in what is now India and Pakistan were doing the same before the Brits got involved, and are still doing it (oh, btw, lets also ignore the fact that India went on a conquering spree after the British left, subsuming under threat of violence all the smaller independent states that the Brits also created there). And then there was the US telling the UK that they couldn't do the colonial thing any more.
Given also the violence the Brits were facing from Jewish factions in the 1940s in what is now Israel, its no wonder they walked away rather than be killed.
Add to that the fact that after WW2, Britain was broke and the colonies weren't going to pay for that debt - the UK only just finished paying off debt to the US in the mid 2000s, it was that bad. With all of the political will against them, plus no money in the pot, there was nothing the UK could do *but* "abdicate" its global leadership role.
Aaron747 wrote:According to what Americans taking international relations courses in university are taught (at least I was), the royals had tens of billions of pounds in wealth prior to WW1. Could have gone a long way toward problem solving and cleaning up messes, but alas, guess not. Not saying at all independence that came to several colonial states later was altogether bad, but the cost of 20th century progress was incredibly high.
WIederling wrote:Aaron747 wrote:According to what Americans taking international relations courses in university are taught (at least I was), the royals had tens of billions of pounds in wealth prior to WW1. Could have gone a long way toward problem solving and cleaning up messes, but alas, guess not. Not saying at all independence that came to several colonial states later was altogether bad, but the cost of 20th century progress was incredibly high.
Question is what value do "American international relations courses" have?
Kiwirob wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:Sunday marked the 10 year anniversary of the killing of Osama bin Laden by US special forces in a compound in Pakistan and this was a very big moment in history. However, the threat of terror did not stop and has changed significantly since then. I did feel a sense of accomplishment when this event took place.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp
Was is really a very big moment in history? It's more a footnote in the book of US foreign military intervention failures.